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6 Nov Late season odonates in Early County GA 11/4/2009 ["Giff Beaton" ] 4 Nov Re: Fw: Lost Hiker [] 04 Nov Re: Fw: Lost Hiker [Alex Netherton ] 3 Nov Fw: Lost Hiker [] 30 Oct Still a few odes around in Northern SC [Chris Hill ] 24 Oct Hyacinth Glider (Miathyria marcella) in Richmond County, GA ["croakie1" ] 10 Oct Southwestern GA Odonates on 10/8/2009 ["Giff Beaton" ] 8 Oct Re: Meadowhawk [Dennis Paulson ] 08 Oct Re: [NCOdonates] NC mystery damsel photo [Alex Netherton ] 08 Oct Re: Meadowhawk [Alex Netherton ] 07 Oct Still a few odes in NE Georgia [Marion Dobbs ] 6 Oct NC mystery damsel photo ["birdranger" ] 6 Oct Ovipositing CGD; migrants [] 5 Oct Re: Meadowhawk it was not. Thanks! ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 5 Oct Re: Meadowhawk [] 5 Oct Re: Meadowhawk [Dennis Paulson ] 5 Oct meadowhawk [Greg Dodge ] 5 Oct Meadowhawk ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 4 Oct Lynches River County Park, Florence Co., South Carolina [Chris Hill ] 30 Sep Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 30 Sep Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Marion Dobbs ] 30 Sep Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 29 Sep Re: Anax junius spring emergence [Steve Hummel ] 29 Sep Re: Anax junius spring emergence [Dennis Paulson ] 29 Sep Anax junius spring emergence [Hal White ] 29 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 29 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Bruce Grimes ] 29 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 29 Sep Re: Fwd: [TexOdes] Fw: [texbirds] FW: Dragonfly takes down a hummingbird ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [] 28 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? [] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC ["SL Brown" ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 28 Sep Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 28 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? [June Tveekrem ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Dragonfly parasites? ["jani" ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Marion Dobbs ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Marion Dobbs ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Chris Hill ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [jspippen ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Late Skimmers Conway SC [Chris Hill ] 22 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer [] 22 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer ["Troy, Marla, & Cheyenne Hibbitts" ] 21 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer [] 21 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer [Mike May ] 20 Sep Re: Meadowhawk? [June Tveekrem ] 20 Sep Re: Meadowhawk? [Steve Hummel ] 20 Sep Meadowhawk? [Alex Netherton ] 20 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer [Dennis Paulson ] 20 Sep Twelve-spotted Skimmer [Chris Hill ] 16 Sep [Fwd: Hilton Pond 09/01/09 (Damsels & Dragons)] [1 Attachment] [Alex Netherton ] 15 Sep Re: "Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood!" AAh! Mr. Rogers-Good Times!! and Dragonflies-well most of the time! [Alex Netherton ] 13 Sep Ruubyspot [Alex Netherton ] 13 Sep Re: Asheville, NC odonatist? [Alex Netherton ] 11 Sep Asheville, NC odonatist? [June Tveekrem ] 4 Sep What would be the opposite of "Sting?" Erythemis simplicicollis, my personal "Bug Terminator" [Martha Smith ] 4 Sep Horry County, SC: elusive emeralds and Georgia River Cruiser [Chris Hill ] 01 Sep Rabun Co., GA [Marion Dobbs ] 25 Aug NC Sandhills Odes August 23 [] 25 Aug Re: Clear Pond, Horry Co., SC [Dennis Paulson ] 25 Aug Clear Pond, Horry Co., SC [Chris Hill ] 24 Aug Re: Fort Gordon, GA 8/23/09 ["Lois Stacey" ] 23 Aug Horry County Bug Chase - you're invited [Chris Hill ] Subject: Late season odonates in Early County GA 11/4/2009 From: "Giff Beaton" <giffbeaton AT mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 08:55:04 -0500 Hi again everyone- On Wednesday 11/4 I duplicated the trip that Steve Krotzer and I made into sw GA on 10/8, just seeing what might still be flying with the fairly warm temps we have been having. The day was mostly sunny with highs around 77F. I again started at Kolomoki Mounds State Park, Early Co, GA (KMSP). I checked the lakes, and a stream area below the big dam on Lake Kolomoki. I also went to Williams Bluff Preserve (WBP), the Nature Conservancy property without public access, and the Ophiogomphus site. There are several streams here, a small almost permanent pond good for spreadwings, and a huge almost permanent cypress pond. I had 16 species for the day, as follows: Hetaerina titia (Smoky Rubyspot): 1, KMSP Lestes australis (Southern Spreadwing): about 50 at WBP, mostly in pairs Lestes vidua (Carolina Spreadwing): about 40, numbers way down from last month, and now mostly singles so they do appear to have been ahead of the australis, at least for this site this year. Argia fumipennis fumipennis (Variable Dancer): 5, both sites Argia sedula (Blue-ringed Dancer): 7, KMSP Enallagma cardenium (Purple Bluet, used to be E coecum): just 1 left, WBP Enallagma doubledayi (Atlantic Bluet): about 40, WBP Ischnura hastata (Citrine Forktail): 15, WBP Ischnura kellicotti (Lilypad Forktail): 5, inc two pairs, KMSP Ischnura posita (Fragile Forktail): 2, WBP Anax junius (Common Green Darner), 40+. About half and half males patrolling and pairs in tandem with still some ovipositing. Erythrodiplax minuscula (Little Blue Dragonlet): 8, both sites Miathyria marcella (Hyacinth Glider): 1, KMSP. At a lake with no know hyacinth, a county record. Orthemis ferruginea (Roseate Skimmer): about 12, both sites Pachydiplax longipennis (Blue Dasher): about 15, WBP Tramea carolina (Carolina Saddlebags): about 10, WBP Pretty nice list for this late in the season, but won't be many of these around much longer. Giff Beaton Marietta GA Subject: Re: Fw: Lost Hiker From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:16:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: Fw: Lost Hiker From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:21:45 -0500 Subject: Fw: Lost Hiker From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:47:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Hey all - not relevant to odonata, but urgent enough to share via this list anyway; please pass around to anyone who might be able to help... JSR -----Forwarded Message----- >From: Carol >Sent: Nov 3, 2009 2:29 PM >To: natural-history AT duke.edu >Subject: Lost Hiker > > We lost a hiker who belongs to Triangle Hiking and Outdoor club over >the weekend. He was last heard from Sat out in TN. A missing person >report has been filed. Please be on the lookout for the following: - A >Green Nissan Pickup truck with NC plates (Appalachian Trail specialty >plate with license "TENT") - John is 5'7" 135 pounds and is 46 years >old. He has no known acute medical problems If you come across the >vehicle, please notify the authorities ASAP. Right now, the first >priority is to locate his vehicle, so that we know where to search. >Please forward this message to anyone you know in the eastern TN, >western NC, northern GA, northwestern SC regions. Thank you for your >assistance If someone wants to broadcast onto Twitter or Facebook, >please use this message : "Missing Hiker, 2 days overdue, looking for >GREEN Nissan pickup truck with NC license plate Appalachian State >Specialty plate "TENT", call authorities if you spot the vehicle ASAP" > >Thanks for any help... Carol Ray Subject: Still a few odes around in Northern SC From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:41:50 -0400 Checked a couple ponds near me in the beautiful weather yesterday: Enallagma civile, Familiar Bluet: 23 Ischnura hastata, Citrine Forktail: 1 Ischnura posita, Fragile Forktail: 1 Ischnura ramburii, Rambur's Forktail: 17 Erythemis simplicicollis, Common Pondhawk: 1 Orthemis ferruginea, Roseate Skimmer: 2 Perithemis tenera, Eastern Amberwing: 1 Notes: - both ponds are ordinary retention ponds, and the list reflects that. I haven't visited any of the 'nice' sites near me lately. - the fall burst of familiar bluets and Rambur's forktails is standard fare. - The pondhawk was the first I've seen in a month or so (not that I've been looking much). Pondhawks usually disappear here around 1 October, but this one must have emerged late. - in the last year or two I've seen the occasional Common Green Darner as late as mid-December, so the flying ode season is far from completely over, but I thought the above was still pretty good at this date for about 20 minutes of looking. The local weather has been just spectacularly nice recently. CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm Brevity is the soul of ambiguity. - H. Curl Subject: Hyacinth Glider (Miathyria marcella) in Richmond County, GA From: "croakie1" <croakie AT comcast.net> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:54:49 -0000 Anne Waters and I were birding in the rain this morning (having a pretty good day, too). Finally the rain stopped and the sun came out and it wasn't minutes later that insect activity picked up. One of the very first bugs we saw was what I initially thought was an immature Carolina Saddlebags but then I realized it was a little small and awfully yellow to be that species. It finally lit and sure enough, it was my second (but really first!) choice, a Hyacinth Glider(Miathyria marcella). This is the first one I've seen and a new county record. There were still a few pondhawks around though not many but we did see quite a few Roseate Skimmers (Orthemis ferruginea) around. Lois Stacey North Augusta, SC (Aiken Cnty) Subject: Southwestern GA Odonates on 10/8/2009 From: "Giff Beaton" <giffbeaton AT mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:06:31 -0400 Hi everyone- On Thursday 10/8 Steve Krotzer and I made a brief foray into sw GA and sw AL looking for odonates, and though we didn't find anything rare we did find some fairly late individuals and other interesting things. Among other things, we were looking for Lestes forficula (Rainpool Spreadwing), which has been spreading east from TX for the last couple of years. We did not find any. Here are some of the highlights of the day, which was cool and cloudy to start and then sunny and hot in the afternoon: Kolomoki Mounds State Park, Early Co, GA (before Steve arrived). This park has two nice big lakes, and a stream area below the big dam on Lake Kolomoki, all are pretty good for odonates at times. 14 species, notable: 3 Argia bipunctulata (Seepage Dancer) About 3 weeks later than my previous late dates Williams Bluff Preserve, also Early Co, a Nature Conservancy property without public access, and the site of some intriguing Ophiogomphus we have been working on the last few years. They may end up being O australis (Southern Snaketail) but we don't know for sure yet. There are several streams here, a small almost permanent pond good for spreadwings, and a huge almost permanent cypress pond. We had 20 species here, notable: Over 250 Lestes vidua (Carolina Spreadwing), which is a ridiculous number. We both commented that this is more than we have seen ever, combined. There were a few L australis (Southern Spreadwing) mixed in, but they were mostly fresh and away from the water, which we speculate means they are a bit behind the vidua emergence-wise. 25 Enallagma cardenium (Purple Bluet, used to be E coecum) This is a nice number for the SE away from FL. 50+ Anax junius (Common Green Darner) mostly in tandem with lots of ovipositing. It's late, but not too late for A longipes (Comet Darner), but we didn't see any, which is surprising given the size of this pond and the numbers of junius. We also hit a couple of other ponds looking for spreadwings, finding nothing much, and went over to Chattahoochee State Park in Houston Co AL, right across the border. Here we found lots of common stuff, and a few each of Enallagma signatum and pollutum (Orange and Florida Bluets). We ended up the day with around 30 species, which isn't bad for October. Giff Beaton Marietta GA Subject: Re: Meadowhawk From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 19:19:55 -0700 Alex, We don't know how it got introduced, although larvae (or eggs?) in with aquatic plants for nursery use seems to be much the most likely way. It turns out that the species is all over the Greater Antilles (Cuba, Jamaica, Puerto Rico at least), and it is very likely it was first introduced to one or more of those islands, then spread elsewhere, including into Florida. It's not known to have any effects on the local fauna, not that anyone is really looking carefully at that. But there have been no extinctions or declines in any local odonates. Who knows about local mayflies, etc.? The Florida peninsula is getting filled up with neotropical species coming in under their own power, so there are a lot of changes in the fauna going on at once that may be more significant than the Scarlet Skimmer introduction. Dennis On Oct 8, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Alex Netherton wrote: > How did Scarlet Skimmer get introduced from Asia? Do they cause any > problems, as many introductions do? > Alex Netherton > Asheville, NC > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carolinamountainbirding/ > http://blueridgediscovery.blogspot.com > > > Dennis Paulson wrote: >> >> Hi, Jan. >> >> >> Those yellow dragons are female and/or immature Scarlet Skimmers. >> This is the only introduced (from Asia) species of odonate in North >> America. The males are gorgeous scarlet red. In fact I see you also >> photographed a male. I suppose the reason the yellow ones just >> turned up, is because they are just emerging from somewhere nearby. >> >> Both of your damelflies are Rambur's Forktails, the orange one a >> female. Dragonfly 0012 is a male Metallic Pennant. Dragon blue is a >> male Blue Dasher. Dragon yellow stripes is a young male Band-winged >> Dragonlet. Dragonfly pose is a female Blue Dasher. >> >> There are no meadowhawks in southern Florida (except for the rare >> visitation of migrant Variegated Meadowhawks, usually along the >> Gulf coast in the winter). >> >> Dennis >> >> On Oct 5, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Jan Roxburgh wrote: >> >>> >>> Just had a lot of these yellow dragons turn up to keep the Halloween >>> Pennants and a few others company... female saffronwinged >>> meadowhawk maybe? >>> They look quite amazing when flying around and catching the >>> sunlight... like >>> gleaming gold. This one posed long enough for a photo. Will add to >>> Jan >>> photo album on the group. >>> >> >> ----- >> Dennis Paulson >> 1724 NE 98 St. >> Seattle, WA 98115 >> 206-528-1382 >> dennispaulson AT comcast.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2417 - Release Date: >> 10/06/09 06:50:00 >> >> ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: [NCOdonates] NC mystery damsel photo From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:10:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Meadowhawk From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:36:34 -0400 Subject: Still a few odes in NE Georgia From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:06:32 -0400 I visited a small marshy area near Hightower Creek, Towns Co., in the "mountains" of NE Georgia on back-to-back days, with different weather conditions each day, and found a little, very little, bit of activity. Oct 6 - mostly overcast, 70F Slender Spreadwing (Lestes rectangularis) 1 Fragile Forktail (Ischnura posita) 1 Shadow Darner (Aeshna umbrosa) 1 Autumn Meadowhawk (Sympetrum vicinum) 1 Oct 7 - sunny, 77F Slender Spreadwing (Lestes rectangularis) 5 Fragile Forktail (Ischnura posita) 4 Shadow Darner (Aeshna umbrosa) 1 Blue-faced Meadowhawk (Sympetrum ambiguum) 7 Autumn Meadowhawk (Sympetrum vicinum) 1 Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://ponddamsel.phanfare.com http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ Subject: NC mystery damsel photo From: "birdranger" <cbockhahn4 AT earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:10:11 -0400 Wake County, NC, any ID help appreciated Thanks! The link to #1 is www.flickr.com/photos/longspur/3691233243 . ALi Subject: Ovipositing CGD; migrants From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:30:19 EDT We observed a Common Green Darner ovipositing up in the N. GA mountains (Towns Co.) on September 25: _http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/3968347693/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/3968347693/) After I took these shots, she flew to the middle of the pond and began ovipositing there, only to be almost immediately taken by a fish or turtle. On that date there were still a number of Swamp Spreadwings at the pond, a few summer odes such as Widow Skimmers, and 4 male Autumn Meadowhawks - which we had not seen there earlier in the season. The only other odes I've seen recently have been Blue-faced Meadowhawks (tandem shot from 9-24 below), Common Green Darners away from water and presumed migrants, a resting Wandering Glider, and one Shadow Darner (ID'd by Glenn Corbiere (thanks!)): _http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/3950822457/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/3950822457/) The Blue-faced Meadowhawks were at their favored wet meadow in our subdivision as recently as 10-3 obelisking on a cool sunny day as nearby butterflies struggled to warm their wings. Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA In a message dated 9/28/2009 11:26:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dennispaulson AT comcast.net writes: Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individulooked differe a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by other dragonflies.ot Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last week's floods. CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu _http://ww2.coastal.http://ww2http://ww_ (http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm) The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 _dennispaulson AT dennispauls_ (mailto:dennispaulson AT comcast.net) Subject: Re: Meadowhawk it was not. Thanks! From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 23:14:22 -0400 Hi Dennis, Thanks a lot for your help! I've now gone and renamed the photos in my album. This is a great way for me to learn them... Trying to figure what is what from the books I have has proved very challenging. Differences can seem quite subtle sometimes. I guess it will get easier with doing it. It is always a thrill to see those red male Scarlet Skimmers here along the canal. :o) Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Paulson To: Jan Roxburgh Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Meadowhawk Hi, Jan. Those yellow dragons are female and/or immature Scarlet Skimmers. This is the only introduced (from Asia) species of odonate in North America. The males are gorgeous scarlet red. In fact I see you also photographed a male. I suppose the reason the yellow ones just turned up, is because they are just emerging from somewhere nearby. Both of your damelflies are Rambur's Forktails, the orange one a female. Dragonfly 0012 is a male Metallic Pennant. Dragon blue is a male Blue Dasher. Dragon yellow stripes is a young male Band-winged Dragonlet. Dragonfly pose is a female Blue Dasher. There are no meadowhawks in southern Florida (except for the rare visitation of migrant Variegated Meadowhawks, usually along the Gulf coast in the winter). Dennis Subject: Re: Meadowhawk From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:07:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: Re: Meadowhawk From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 18:33:41 -0700 Hi, Jan. Those yellow dragons are female and/or immature Scarlet Skimmers. This is the only introduced (from Asia) species of odonate in North America. The males are gorgeous scarlet red. In fact I see you also photographed a male. I suppose the reason the yellow ones just turned up, is because they are just emerging from somewhere nearby. Both of your damelflies are Rambur's Forktails, the orange one a female. Dragonfly 0012 is a male Metallic Pennant. Dragon blue is a male Blue Dasher. Dragon yellow stripes is a young male Band-winged Dragonlet. Dragonfly pose is a female Blue Dasher. There are no meadowhawks in southern Florida (except for the rare visitation of migrant Variegated Meadowhawks, usually along the Gulf coast in the winter). Dennis On Oct 5, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Jan Roxburgh wrote: > Just had a lot of these yellow dragons turn up to keep the Halloween > Pennants and a few others company... female saffronwinged meadowhawk > maybe? > They look quite amazing when flying around and catching the > sunlight... like > gleaming gold. This one posed long enough for a photo. Will add to Jan > photo album on the group. > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: meadowhawk From: Greg Dodge <grdodge AT embarqmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 12:19:24 -0400 First of the season Autumn Meadowhawk on 10/3/09 at NC Museum of Life + Science, Durham, NC, perched on willow leaf in the Wetlands. Greg Dodge Hillsborough, NC www.ncmls.org/learn-about/dodgejournal -------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Meadowhawk From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:55:15 -0400 Just had a lot of these yellow dragons turn up to keep the Halloween Pennants and a few others company... female saffronwinged meadowhawk maybe? They look quite amazing when flying around and catching the sunlight... like gleaming gold. This one posed long enough for a photo. Will add to Jan photo album on the group. Subject: Lynches River County Park, Florence Co., South Carolina From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 16:01:20 -0400 Went camping with friends and family this weekend by the Lynches River. Saw only 5 species of odes: Ebony Jewelwing, Calopteryx maculata - 2 Powdered Dancer, Argia moesta - 2 Fawn Darner, Boyeria vinosa - 6 Russett-tipped Clubtail, Stylurus plagiatus - 3 Georgia River Cruiser, Macromia illinoisensis georgina - 2 But it was a lovely spot and any running-water odes are always a pleasure. The very de luxe nature center had a couple display cases of insects. Of the three dragonflies in the case, two were ordinary, but one was a Neurocordulia (Shadowdragon; I'd need to visit with a book and get a better look to say which). Since two in our party were aquatic invertebrate professionals, we also drug some nets through various parts of the river and found all sorts of cool aquatic bugs, some of which were odes as well. CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm "Most people would rather die than think. In fact, they do so" - Bertrand Russell Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:46:22 -0700 (PDT) OK, your Sympetrum answer makes me happy. As for the Anax, I wasn't actually thinkig of them going as far inland as the Great Basin, just away from the coast - perhaps over the Willamette or Central Valleys or, as I said, pushed up againstl the high mountains.   Mike --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" , TexOdes AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:42 PM I probably didn't make it clear that the corruptum flights are seen only during the rather uncommon situation of easterly winds. Indeed the normal situation is for winds to be from the west-southwest for much of the year, but at times a high-pressure zone will situate itself in the interior and we'll get a northeasterly flow. That's when people see the meadowhawks on the coast. Presumably they're spread all over the landscape at other times. But we don't see any evidence of Anax migration in Washington, and this may be because we're just near enough to the northern edge of its range that there aren't enough of them to show up as a phenomenon. We see no hint of a spring "migration" in either species, just arrival on breeding grounds. I don't know of any accounts of migrating dragonflies anywhere between the Pacific states and the Great Plains except one at Reno, Nevada, with dragonflies heading into the Sierras. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Mike May wrote: Dennis,   If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. corruptum mainly along the coast? --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson  wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes  wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata) .  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs  wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi. net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.. mamomi.net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net .  ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:46:22 -0700 (PDT) OK, your Sympetrum answer makes me happy. As for the Anax, I wasn't actually thinkig of them going as far inland as the Great Basin, just away from the coast - perhaps over the Willamette or Central Valleys or, as I said, pushed up againstl the high mountains.   Mike --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" , TexOdes AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:42 PM I probably didn't make it clear that the corruptum flights are seen only during the rather uncommon situation of easterly winds. Indeed the normal situation is for winds to be from the west-southwest for much of the year, but at times a high-pressure zone will situate itself in the interior and we'll get a northeasterly flow. That's when people see the meadowhawks on the coast. Presumably they're spread all over the landscape at other times. But we don't see any evidence of Anax migration in Washington, and this may be because we're just near enough to the northern edge of its range that there aren't enough of them to show up as a phenomenon. We see no hint of a spring "migration" in either species, just arrival on breeding grounds. I don't know of any accounts of migrating dragonflies anywhere between the Pacific states and the Great Plains except one at Reno, Nevada, with dragonflies heading into the Sierras. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Mike May wrote: Dennis,   If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. corruptum mainly along the coast? --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson  wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes  wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata) .  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs  wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi. net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.. mamomi.net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net .  ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:42:31 -0700 I probably didn't make it clear that the corruptum flights are seen only during the rather uncommon situation of easterly winds. Indeed the normal situation is for winds to be from the west-southwest for much of the year, but at times a high-pressure zone will situate itself in the interior and we'll get a northeasterly flow. That's when people see the meadowhawks on the coast. Presumably they're spread all over the landscape at other times. But we don't see any evidence of Anax migration in Washington, and this may be because we're just near enough to the northern edge of its range that there aren't enough of them to show up as a phenomenon. We see no hint of a spring "migration" in either species, just arrival on breeding grounds. I don't know of any accounts of migrating dragonflies anywhere between the Pacific states and the Great Plains except one at Reno, Nevada, with dragonflies heading into the Sierras. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Mike May wrote: > Dennis, > > If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd > expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate > along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, > again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case > away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that > westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, > but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in > late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) > areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my > Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. > corruptum mainly along the coast? > > --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > From: Dennis Paulson > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: "Mike May" > Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" > Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > Mike, > > It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant > of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every > fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, > from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I > don't know why there are no such reports from California, but > perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly > plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These > accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/ > minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds > that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. > > Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught > by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with > Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally > settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were > having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs > with dragonflies in them. > > I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington > mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they > were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not > associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's > very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably > strongly affected by weather patterns. > > Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, > except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green > darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this > region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in > northern and central California during the fall, surely in > southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San > Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm > encouraging them to get them published. > > Dennis > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: > >> >> There are actually many records of migration away from coastal >> areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen >> with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the >> Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast >> numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large >> movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that >> matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains >> or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common >> spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because >> prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward >> until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays >> out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis? >> >> Mike May >> >> --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes wrote: >> >> From: Bruce Grimes >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC >> To: "Marion Dobbs" >> Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com >> Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM >> >> >> >> Marion, >> A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near >> mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's. >> In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with >> approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the >> entire time. Since that time, he began noting the migration of >> dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's >> field guide became available were most species identified. >> In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented >> lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and >> Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, >> and butterflies also migrating. >> The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there >> is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with >> another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) >> of us. This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying >> insects, and more time for ID. >> I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs >> away from the coasts. We get the spring migrants too on our area, >> with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common >> Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted >> (Libellula semifasciata) . Painted has also been seen (identified >> once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. >> Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely >> limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded >> only a few Green Darners.. We later heard from an occasional >> participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to >> the south and below the ridge line. >> Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. >> pulchella). This is in our top 4 migrants at our site. Maximum >> probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. >> Bruce Grimes >> >> --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: >> >> From: Marion Dobbs >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC >> To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com >> Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" >> >> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM >> >> >> >> PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal >> migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the >> coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these >> not the common pathways? >> >> Marion Dobbs >> Rome (Floyd Co.) GA >> spreadwing AT mac.com >> pond_damsel AT comcast.net >> http://www.mamomi. net >> http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel >> http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ >> >> "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one >> another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be >> heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. >> >> >> Marion Dobbs >> Rome (Floyd Co.) GA >> spreadwing AT mac.com >> pond_damsel AT comcast.net >> http://www.. mamomi.net >> http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel >> http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ >> >> "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the >> expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki >> >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: >> >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are >>> the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding >>> in this species extends at least as far north as the northern >>> Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking >>> maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers >>> in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far >>> north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to >>> put together that story from all the observers we have in the >>> field now. >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: >>> >>>> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to >>>> scoot >>>> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >>>> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an >>>> hour >>>> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging >>>> (well, a >>>> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >>>> couple Carolina Bays. >>>> >>>> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >>>> boggy >>>> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >>>> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted >>>> Skimmers. >>>> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >>>> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >>>> documentation. >>>> >>>> I failed. >>>> >>>> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >>>> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle >>>> deep, >>>> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >>>> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >>>> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't >>>> know, a >>>> quarter as many? >>>> >>>> The list, combined across the two dates: >>>> >>>> Swamp Spreadwings >>>> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few >>>> females >>>> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >>>> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >>>> Common Pondhawk, a couple >>>> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >>>> Golden-winged Skimmer >>>> Bar-winged Skimmer >>>> Painted Skimmer >>>> Blue Dasher >>>> Wandering Glider >>>> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >>>> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >>>> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >>>> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >>>> enough >>>> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple >>>> tandem >>>> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units >>>> were >>>> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so >>>> qualitatively it >>>> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als- >>>> harassing- >>>> a-pair type scenario. >>>> >>>> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the >>>> usual >>>> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >>>> other dragonflies. .. >>>> >>>> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through >>>> last >>>> week's floods. >>>> >>>> CH >>>> >>>> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* >>>> ********* ****** >>>> Christopher E. Hill >>>> Biology Department >>>> Coastal Carolina University >>>> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >>>> chill AT coastal.edu >>>> http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm >>>> >>>> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >>>> always >>>> so >>>> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >>>> - Bertrand Russell >>>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Dennis Paulson >>> 1724 NE 98 St. >>> Seattle, WA 98115 >>> 206-528-1382 >>> dennispaulson AT comcast.net >>> >>> >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:42:31 -0700 I probably didn't make it clear that the corruptum flights are seen only during the rather uncommon situation of easterly winds. Indeed the normal situation is for winds to be from the west-southwest for much of the year, but at times a high-pressure zone will situate itself in the interior and we'll get a northeasterly flow. That's when people see the meadowhawks on the coast. Presumably they're spread all over the landscape at other times. But we don't see any evidence of Anax migration in Washington, and this may be because we're just near enough to the northern edge of its range that there aren't enough of them to show up as a phenomenon. We see no hint of a spring "migration" in either species, just arrival on breeding grounds. I don't know of any accounts of migrating dragonflies anywhere between the Pacific states and the Great Plains except one at Reno, Nevada, with dragonflies heading into the Sierras. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Mike May wrote: > Dennis, > > If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd > expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate > along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, > again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case > away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that > westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, > but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in > late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) > areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my > Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. > corruptum mainly along the coast? > > --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > From: Dennis Paulson > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: "Mike May" > Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" > Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > Mike, > > It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant > of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every > fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, > from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I > don't know why there are no such reports from California, but > perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly > plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These > accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/ > minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds > that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. > > Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught > by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with > Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally > settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were > having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs > with dragonflies in them. > > I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington > mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they > were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not > associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's > very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably > strongly affected by weather patterns. > > Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, > except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green > darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this > region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in > northern and central California during the fall, surely in > southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San > Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm > encouraging them to get them published. > > Dennis > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: > >> >> There are actually many records of migration away from coastal >> areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen >> with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the >> Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast >> numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large >> movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that >> matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains >> or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common >> spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because >> prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward >> until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays >> out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis? >> >> Mike May >> >> --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes wrote: >> >> From: Bruce Grimes >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC >> To: "Marion Dobbs" >> Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com >> Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM >> >> >> >> Marion, >> A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near >> mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's. >> In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with >> approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the >> entire time. Since that time, he began noting the migration of >> dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's >> field guide became available were most species identified. >> In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented >> lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and >> Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, >> and butterflies also migrating. >> The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there >> is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with >> another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) >> of us. This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying >> insects, and more time for ID. >> I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs >> away from the coasts. We get the spring migrants too on our area, >> with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common >> Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted >> (Libellula semifasciata) . Painted has also been seen (identified >> once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. >> Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely >> limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded >> only a few Green Darners.. We later heard from an occasional >> participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to >> the south and below the ridge line. >> Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. >> pulchella). This is in our top 4 migrants at our site. Maximum >> probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. >> Bruce Grimes >> >> --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: >> >> From: Marion Dobbs >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC >> To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com >> Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" >> >> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM >> >> >> >> PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal >> migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the >> coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these >> not the common pathways? >> >> Marion Dobbs >> Rome (Floyd Co.) GA >> spreadwing AT mac.com >> pond_damsel AT comcast.net >> http://www.mamomi. net >> http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel >> http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ >> >> "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one >> another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be >> heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. >> >> >> Marion Dobbs >> Rome (Floyd Co.) GA >> spreadwing AT mac.com >> pond_damsel AT comcast.net >> http://www.. mamomi.net >> http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel >> http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ >> >> "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the >> expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki >> >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: >> >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are >>> the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding >>> in this species extends at least as far north as the northern >>> Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking >>> maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers >>> in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far >>> north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to >>> put together that story from all the observers we have in the >>> field now. >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: >>> >>>> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to >>>> scoot >>>> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >>>> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an >>>> hour >>>> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging >>>> (well, a >>>> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >>>> couple Carolina Bays. >>>> >>>> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >>>> boggy >>>> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >>>> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted >>>> Skimmers. >>>> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >>>> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >>>> documentation. >>>> >>>> I failed. >>>> >>>> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >>>> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle >>>> deep, >>>> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >>>> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >>>> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't >>>> know, a >>>> quarter as many? >>>> >>>> The list, combined across the two dates: >>>> >>>> Swamp Spreadwings >>>> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few >>>> females >>>> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >>>> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >>>> Common Pondhawk, a couple >>>> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >>>> Golden-winged Skimmer >>>> Bar-winged Skimmer >>>> Painted Skimmer >>>> Blue Dasher >>>> Wandering Glider >>>> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >>>> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >>>> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >>>> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >>>> enough >>>> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple >>>> tandem >>>> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units >>>> were >>>> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so >>>> qualitatively it >>>> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als- >>>> harassing- >>>> a-pair type scenario. >>>> >>>> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the >>>> usual >>>> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >>>> other dragonflies. .. >>>> >>>> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through >>>> last >>>> week's floods. >>>> >>>> CH >>>> >>>> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* >>>> ********* ****** >>>> Christopher E. Hill >>>> Biology Department >>>> Coastal Carolina University >>>> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >>>> chill AT coastal.edu >>>> http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm >>>> >>>> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >>>> always >>>> so >>>> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >>>> - Bertrand Russell >>>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Dennis Paulson >>> 1724 NE 98 St. >>> Seattle, WA 98115 >>> 206-528-1382 >>> dennispaulson AT comcast.net >>> >>> >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:31:57 -0400 Thank you, Bruce, et al. This has been a fascinating and informative thread. I had no idea how very little I know about dragonfly migration and how much more I'd like to know. It all makes me want to go out and watch the skies. Of course, that, like exuviae collection, would entail a large time commitment, as Mike points out. Observation of dragonfly movements I'm sure are sporadic at best, and it's certainly understandable why regular sightings occur at hawk watches and sites frequented by birders on a regular basis. I'm very glad to know what to watch for and when and will certainly be paying closer attention and taking better notes in future. Thanks to Dennis and Mike and Bruce and everyone else for pointing out how the observations of us ordinary oders can contribute in some way to our broader knowledge of odonata and, by extension, the greater natural world. Marion Dobbs On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:05 AM, Bruce Grimes wrote: > Marion, > A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp > 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's. In > 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx > 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire > time. Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies > at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide > became available were most species identified. > In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots > of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) > migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and > butterflies also migrating. > The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is > a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with > another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of > us. This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying > insects, and more time for ID. > I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away > from the coasts. We get the spring migrants too on our area, with > sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green > Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula > semifasciata). Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall > migration at the Rocky Knob site. > Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely > limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded > only a few Green Darners.. We later heard from an occasional > participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the > south and below the ridge line. > Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. > pulchella). This is in our top 4 migrants at our site. Maximum > probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. > Bruce Grimes > > --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: > > > > > > > > Marion Dobbs 9 Bridlewood Lane Rome GA 30165 ecurlew AT mac.com http://www.mamomi.net http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ http://ponddamsel.phanfare.com/ "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena...who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." _Theodore Roosevelt, 23 Apr 1910. Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Dennis,   If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. corruptum mainly along the coast? --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes  wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata) .  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs  wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi. net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.. mamomi.net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net .  ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Dennis,   If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. corruptum mainly along the coast? --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes  wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata) .  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs  wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi. net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.. mamomi.net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net .  ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:30:55 -0700 Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: > > There are actually many records of migration away from coastal > areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen > with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the > Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast > numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large > movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that > matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or > shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common > spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because > prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward > until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays > out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis? > > Mike May > > --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes wrote: > > From: Bruce Grimes > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: "Marion Dobbs" > Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM > > > > Marion, > A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp > 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's. In > 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx > 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire > time. Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies > at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide > became available were most species identified. > In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots > of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) > migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and > butterflies also migrating. > The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is > a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with > another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of > us. This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying > insects, and more time for ID. > I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away > from the coasts. We get the spring migrants too on our area, with > sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green > Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula > semifasciata). Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall > migration at the Rocky Knob site. > Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely > limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded > only a few Green Darners.. We later heard from an occasional > participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the > south and below the ridge line. > Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. > pulchella). This is in our top 4 migrants at our site. Maximum > probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. > Bruce Grimes > > --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: > > From: Marion Dobbs > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com > Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" > > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM > > > > PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal > migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the > coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these > not the common pathways? > > Marion Dobbs > Rome (Floyd Co.) GA > spreadwing AT mac.com > pond_damsel AT comcast.net > http://www.mamomi.net > http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel > http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ > > "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one > another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be > heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. > > > Marion Dobbs > Rome (Floyd Co.) GA > spreadwing AT mac.com > pond_damsel AT comcast.net > http://www..mamomi.net > http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel > http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ > > "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the > expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki > > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > >> >> Chris, >> >> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the >> ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in >> this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal >> Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it >> was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south >> Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that >> behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together >> that story from all the observers we have in the field now. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: >> >>> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to >>> scoot >>> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >>> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour >>> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging >>> (well, a >>> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >>> couple Carolina Bays. >>> >>> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >>> boggy >>> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >>> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted >>> Skimmers. >>> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >>> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >>> documentation. >>> >>> I failed. >>> >>> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >>> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle >>> deep, >>> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >>> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >>> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't >>> know, a >>> quarter as many? >>> >>> The list, combined across the two dates: >>> >>> Swamp Spreadwings >>> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few >>> females >>> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >>> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >>> Common Pondhawk, a couple >>> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >>> Golden-winged Skimmer >>> Bar-winged Skimmer >>> Painted Skimmer >>> Blue Dasher >>> Wandering Glider >>> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >>> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >>> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >>> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >>> enough >>> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple >>> tandem >>> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were >>> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively >>> it >>> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als- >>> harassing- >>> a-pair type scenario. >>> >>> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual >>> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >>> other dragonflies. .. >>> >>> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through >>> last >>> week's floods. >>> >>> CH >>> >>> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* >>> ********* ****** >>> Christopher E. Hill >>> Biology Department >>> Coastal Carolina University >>> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >>> chill AT coastal.edu >>> http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm >>> >>> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >>> always >>> so >>> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >>> - Bertrand Russell >>> >> >> ----- >> Dennis Paulson >> 1724 NE 98 St. >> Seattle, WA 98115 >> 206-528-1382 >> dennispaulson AT comcast.net >> >> > > . > > > > > > > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:41:18 -0700 (PDT) There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata).  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www..mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net . Subject: Re: Anax junius spring emergence From: Steve Hummel <shummel AT iowatelecom.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:30:31 -0500 Hi all, My observations in Iowa has been that Anax junius (CGDarner) has been by far the earliest odonate to appear in the spring, are fully mature, and often there are males and females flying in tandem, mating, and oviposition is taking place. I've attached a photo taken on April 11, 2006 in northern Iowa. Snow trilliums were blooming and the pond still had some patches of ice. Steve Hummel shummel AT iowatelecom.net On Sep 29, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: But to add to Hal's account, there is little doubt that the vast majority of early spring records of Common Green Darners in the northern part of its range are incoming migrants. The first seen are almost always mature males. Females are surely coming in, but they're harder to detect than males because they're not cruising over the water. They may not arrive as early in Washington state (earliest date ever 22 April, not until May in most years) as they do in the Northeast (commonly reported in April, but perhaps because there are more observers watching), but the first seen are always mature males. The first Anax exuviae I have found in this state usually appear some time after the first adults are seen, and large-scale emergence is mostly seen in August. On Sep 29, 2009, at 7:41 AM, Hal White wrote: > Josh, > > Rudy Raff and I reported finding Anax junius exuviae in central PA in > late March 1964(?) I believe. > Harold B. White, III and Rudolf A. Raff, "Early Spring Emergence of > Anax > junius (Odonata: Aeschnidae) in Central Pennsylvania," Can. Ent. 102, > 498-499 (1970). > Philip Corbet and I had several conversations and correspondence > over whether or not this was a believable observation. He found it! > hard to > accept. However I argued that exuviae left over from late fall could > not > survive in situ over a PA winter. > > Hal > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Anax junius spring emergence From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:35:31 -0700 But to add to Hal's account, there is little doubt that the vast majority of early spring records of Common Green Darners in the northern part of its range are incoming migrants. The first seen are almost always mature males. Females are surely coming in, but they're harder to detect than males because they're not cruising over the water. They may not arrive as early in Washington state (earliest date ever 22 April, not until May in most years) as they do in the Northeast (commonly reported in April, but perhaps because there are more observers watching), but the first seen are always mature males. The first Anax exuviae I have found in this state usually appear some time after the first adults are seen, and large-scale emergence is mostly seen in August. On Sep 29, 2009, at 7:41 AM, Hal White wrote: > Josh, > > Rudy Raff and I reported finding Anax junius exuviae in central PA in > late March 1964(?) I believe. > Harold B. White, III and Rudolf A. Raff, "Early Spring Emergence of > Anax > junius (Odonata: Aeschnidae) in Central Pennsylvania," Can. Ent. 102, > 498-499 (1970). > Philip Corbet and I had several conversations and correspondence over > whether or not this was a believable observation. He found it hard to > accept. However I argued that exuviae left over from late fall could > not > survive in situ over a PA winter. > > Hal > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Anax junius spring emergence From: Hal White <halwhite AT udel.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:41:28 -0400 Josh, Rudy Raff and I reported finding Anax junius exuviae in central PA in late March 1964(?) I believe. Harold B. White, III and Rudolf A. Raff, "Early Spring Emergence of Anax junius (Odonata: Aeschnidae) in Central Pennsylvania," Can. Ent. 102, 498-499 (1970). Philip Corbet and I had several conversations and correspondence over whether or not this was a believable observation. He found it hard to accept. However I argued that exuviae left over from late fall could not survive in situ over a PA winter. Hal opihi AT mindspring.com wrote: > > > One question I may have asked before, but forget the answer. Common > Green Darners are frequently the first, or one of the first, dragonflies > observed in the spring in several mid-Atlantic states. Are these first > sightings of spring returning migrants? Or are they larvae that just > missed the cutoff for migrating south, so overwintered in the final > instar, and emerged as soon as the weather was tolerable in the spring? > > Josh Rose > Amherst MA > > > > > Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:25:42 -0400 Hi Dennis, Encouraged by your post, I have added just a few fairly recent photos to the Jan album on the group. Please forgive that they are not named. I'm not yet confident about connecting what I have with what is in my two books. Looks like a female, immature? yellow-legged meadowhawk in amongst them, but I could be completely wrong. If it turns out that I ever stumble upon some rarity in the USA, I will at least have the date and time of day recorded in the photo metadata. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Paulson To: jani Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonfly parasites? Jan, >>> You live in an area with no resident odonatologists, although various of us visit there from time to time. It's an area where tropical dragonflies are moving in from the West Indies, so I encourage you to photograph as many kinds of dragonflies as you see! Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:32 AM, jani wrote: Hi, I'm a new member living in Miami, FL. My husband and I have become keen dragonfly photographers over the past year. We planted a hedge of Ixora, and discovered that attracts quite a few dragonflies to our garden, which is nice and convenient, since wandering around looking all over the place for them in the intense heat and humidity isn't as much fun. I just created an album here named Jan Roxburgh which has a couple of photos of a dragonfly that has two insects attached to its back. When enlarging the photos, we could see that they have legs, probably wings, and are attached by their mouths. Anyone know what those critters are, and whether they harm the dragonflies? I did research online, but didn't come up with much. We thought maybe a gnat? Thanks. Jan ----- Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Bruce Grimes <blue_corporal AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata).  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners.  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion DobbsRome (Floyd Co.) GAspreadwing AT mac.compond_damsel AT comcast..nethttp://www.mamomi.nethttp://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamselhttp://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion DobbsRome (Floyd Co.) GAspreadwing AT mac.compond_damsel AT comcast..nethttp://www.mamomi.nethttp://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamselhttp://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell -----Dennis Paulson1724 NE 98 St.Seattle, WA 98115206-528-1382dennispaulson AT comcast.net . Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:48:35 -0400 Hi Josh, Thanks for the info. We have been to Fairchild Gardens a few times but probably were too focused on being with guests and watching the iguanas, to notice that there were so many dragonflies. We will be much more observant there in future. We have better cameras now too. Will look into Fakahatchee Strand and Loxahatchee... What we noticed about Shark Valley was the dragons seemed really settled. Probably helps that they don't have to contend with regular lawn mowing operations like what happens in the common areas near our house. We've noticed "our" dragons are especially upset when their perching grasses are trimmed off along the edge of the canal. BTW, we get a mind-boggling number of I think it is Halloween Pennants perching on the grasses just yards from our home if the city does leave the grass trimming for awhile. Incredibly beautiful when the sunlight reflects of all those wings. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: opihi AT mindspring.com To: Jan Roxburgh ; se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonfly parasites? When I was doing my dissertation field work in Florida, I had pretty good luck photographing dragons at Fairchild Tropical Gardens in Coral Gables, just south of Miami. I forget how many species I had - 15, maybe 20 - but the list included critters like Three-striped Dasher (Micrathyria didyma) and Caribbean Yellowface (Neoerythromma cultellatum). I know some of the *really* exciting tropical odonates in FL were found in the Fakahatchee Strand. I found a good variety of species there but nothing Earth-shattering, but only visited once, really wish I had the chance to go back a few more times... Loxahatchee NWR had fair diversity and absolutely astounding biomass. I was there once, I think in June, when Four-spotted Pennants (Brachymesia gravida) were emerging in numbers that officially boggled my mind. Seemed like there was one on every fifth blade of sawgrass, and Loxahatchee has a LOT of sawgrass! Have fun, Josh -----Original Message----- From: Jan Roxburgh <2jani AT comcast.net> Thank you for the encouragement to photograph as many dragonflies as we see. I had read about the tropicals coming here to South Florida. (It's swelteringly hot enough I am sure!) We are just starting out now with identifying what we photograph. Bought two books to help.. Stokes "Beginner's Guide to Dragonflies", and "Dragonflies and Damselflies of Georgia and the SouthEast," by Beaton. If there is a simple wish-list here on the group, we can be on the look-out for them in Miami. My husband uses a nice macro lens, so he can get up close and personal with them, and capture wonderful detail. I can't get as close with mine. We have found that Shark Valley in the Everglades can be a great place to photograph dragons. Jan Subject: Re: Fwd: [TexOdes] Fw: [texbirds] FW: Dragonfly takes down a hummingbird From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:32:26 -0400 Youtube video of dragonflies and hummingbird at feeders . The argument looks very territorial to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxRjm_JD8QM Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Paulson To: Odonata-l ; se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata ; NE Odes ; gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:05 PM Subject: [se-odonata] Fwd: [TexOdes] Fw: [texbirds] FW: Dragonfly takes down a hummingbird I thought this was interesting enough to warrant further distribution. There is at least one published record of an Anax junius capturing a Ruby-throated Hummingbird. Hofslund, P. B. 1977. Dragonfly attacks and kills a ruby-throated hummingbird. Loon 49: 238. Begin forwarded message: From: "Mitch" Date: September 28, 2009 1:52:26 PM PDT To: Subject: [TexOdes] Fw: [texbirds] FW: Dragonfly takes down a hummingbird Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:18:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:15:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: "SL Brown" <ictinia AT gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:40:12 -0400 Dennis wrote: There were enough tandem pairs in the huge swarm of CG Darners I saw on Sept. 30, 2007 to have been noteworthy. That flight was over the dunes directly adjacent to beach, by the way - which is as coastal as it gets. I've lost track of time (sadly, this is my busiest season, work-wise) - it's time to spend some time at beach, looking . . . interestingly (should this be peak CG Darner migration time in my area - in case that wasn't just a one-time fluke), peak Merlin migration down the beach in my area is typically around the first week of October, and I have quite often seen Merlins, particularly immature birds, fueling their migration flights with dragonflies. Sharon L. Brown http://SLBrownPhoto.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- "I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in tune once more." John Burroughs Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:56:38 -0700 I should add one more thing to this. I believe that tandem pairs have been seen among the groups of individuals apparently in southbound migration, and this is pretty good circumstantial evidence of breeding along the way. But it doesn't furnish any evidence that the same two dragonflies (probably not still in tandem) would continue south and then hook up for another one-day stand somewhere farther on. They probably do, but evidence for this won't be easy to acquire. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Mike May wrote: > Well, I jumped in before I read Dennis' more complete reply. I'll > just add that there is no evidence, based mostly on John Matthews' > extensive work, but also that of Joanna Freeland that there's any > genetic difference between migrants and residents. It's probably a > result of some behavioral switch, as Dennis described. Also, I > wouldn't say there isn't any evidence that Anax breed on the way > south, but I do admit that isn't tied down by nearly enough direct > observation. > > Mike > > --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > From: Dennis Paulson > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: "Chris Hill" > Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 1:03 PM > > > > Chris, > > You're right that there are migrants and residents in the North and > how they differ. They are not genetically different, as far as I > recall, which surprised people when the research was done. But more > likely there is a genetic progamming in these populations that > provides them with the ability to emerge if they are ready to do so > in late summer and then migrate south but to overwinter as larvae if > they don't reach last instar in time to emerge. Those overwintering > ones then emerge the next spring, breed and die. Presumably if one > of them had a very fast-growing larva, it might emerge early enough > to migrate south, but I don't think that is known. More likely they > would not reach that stage and would overwinter, carrying on the > "resident" population. Do the ones that arrive from the south in > spring have larvae that take long enough so that some might > overwinter? An interesting question is "how likely is it that a > resident type can become a migrant or vice versa?" John Matthews > studied the species extensively, and I believe his research showed > that it was quite likely, as he raised eggs from the same female > under different photoperiod regimes and found that photoperiod > influenced developmental rate of the larvae and could turn them, > essentially, into spring-emerging or fall-emerging larvae. Some of > John's work is summarized in this reference: > > May, M. L., and J. H. Matthews. 2008. Migration in Odonata: a case > study of Anax junius. In Dragonflies & Damselflies, Model Organisms > for Ecological and Evolutionary Research, ed. A. Córdoba-Aguilar. > Oxford University Press. > > > The situation is more or less reversed in the southern part of the > range, but with even less information. In southern Florida, most > Anax junius in the spring are immature, presumably recently emerged > from larvae that overwintered and likely to be heading north. There > is somewhat of a hiatus in summer, not many of them (but there are > some). Then in the fall there are great numbers of mature adults > breeding all over the place, presumably those individuals seen > migrating south along the Atlantic coast in previous months. But > there are also breeding records in spring, so perhaps there is a > resident population all the way down there as well. The situation in > Mexico and the West Indies is even less well understood. How late in > the winter do they breed at those latitudes? Are there any resident > populations? > > Then what happens at mid latitudes such as the Carolinas and a bit > farther north? Even more poorly known, I would say. Again, I think > John Matthews was trying to answer these questions. The May and > Matthews paper stated the belief that Common Green Darners were > breeding as they headed south in the fall, with the assumption that > individual dragonflies would breed somewhere, then continue farther > south and breed again, perhaps multiple times. I don't think there > is any evidence for this, and it would be good to know if this was > indeed the case. Are those darners you saw, Chris, on their way to > Florida or Cuba after their brief stop in South Carolina? > > Dennis > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > >> OK, just to get this straight, there are supposed to be (in >> northern areas) two life cycles, migrants and residents, right? >> And the migrants arrive early in the spring, lay, and then emerge >> in the fall and head south. And the residents overwinter as >> larvae, emerge and breed locally, and their offspring then again >> overwinter and emerge the next year. And genetic studies have >> shown differences between migrants and locals, so they are distinct >> in any one area. Is that right? Migrants would then be >> multivoltine, residents univoltine? >> >> And the reason September oviposition is of interest is that it's >> too late for the locals? >> >> Sorry if I've hopelessly confused the situation - just trying to >> get the basics down so I can follow the discussion. >> >> I think I remember this as a usual late summer - September thing - >> I start seeing more CGDs at the ponds I frequent, and they are >> often breeding/ovipositing. I see occasional individuals around as >> late as December, but I don't see enough of them to know what >> they're doing then. And I should take more consistent notes on >> behavior, but I ususally don't. >> >> Chris >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: >> >>> Chris, >>> >>> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are >>> the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding >>> in this species extends at least as far north as the northern >>> Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking >>> maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers >>> in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far >>> north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to >>> put together that story from all the observers we have in the >>> field now. >>> >>> Dennis >>> >> >> ************************************************************************ >> Christopher E. Hill >> Biology Department >> Coastal Carolina University >> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >> chill AT coastal.edu >> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >> >> "It's better to be wrong than vague." - Freeman Dyson >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Well, I jumped in before I read Dennis' more complete reply. I'll just add that there is no evidence, based mostly on John Matthews' extensive work, but also that of Joanna Freeland that there's any genetic difference between migrants and residents. It's probably a result of some behavioral switch, as Dennis described. Also, I wouldn't say there isn't any evidence that Anax breed on the way south, but I do admit that isn't tied down by nearly enough direct observation.   Mike --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 1:03 PM Chris, You're right that there are migrants and residents in the North and how they differ. They are not genetically different, as far as I recall, which surprised people when the research was done. But more likely there is a genetic progamming in these populations that provides them with the ability to emerge if they are ready to do so in late summer and then migrate south but to overwinter as larvae if they don't reach last instar in time to emerge. Those overwintering ones then emerge the next spring, breed and die. Presumably if one of them had a very fast-growing larva, it might emerge early enough to migrate south, but I don't think that is known. More likely they would not reach that stage and would overwinter, carrying on the "resident" population. Do the ones that arrive from the south in spring have larvae that take long enough so that some might overwinter? An interesting question is "how likely is it that a resident type can become a migrant or vice versa?" John Matthews studied the species extensively, and I believe his research showed that it was quite likely, as he raised eggs from the same female under different photoperiod regimes and found that photoperiod influenced developmental rate of the larvae and could turn them, essentially, into spring-emerging or fall-emerging larvae. Some of John's work is summarized in this reference: May, M. L., and J. H. Matthews. 2008. Migration in Odonata: a case study of Anax junius. In Dragonflies & Damselflies, Model Organisms for Ecological and Evolutionary Research, ed. A. Córdoba-Aguilar. Oxford University Press. The situation is more or less reversed in the southern part of the range, but with even less information. In southern Florida, most Anax junius in the spring are immature, presumably recently emerged from larvae that overwintered and likely to be heading north. There is somewhat of a hiatus in summer, not many of them (but there are some). Then in the fall there are great numbers of mature adults breeding all over the place, presumably those individuals seen migrating south along the Atlantic coast in previous months. But there are also breeding records in spring, so perhaps there is a resident population all the way down there as well. The situation in Mexico and the West Indies is even less well understood. How late in the winter do they breed at those latitudes? Are there any resident populations? Then what happens at mid latitudes such as the Carolinas and a bit farther north? Even more poorly known, I would say. Again, I think John Matthews was trying to answer these questions. The May and Matthews paper stated the belief that Common Green Darners were breeding as they headed south in the fall, with the assumption that individual dragonflies would breed somewhere, then continue farther south and breed again, perhaps multiple times. I don't think there is any evidence for this, and it would be good to know if this was indeed the case. Are those darners you saw, Chris, on their way to Florida or Cuba after their brief stop in South Carolina? Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Chris Hill wrote: OK, just to get this straight, there are supposed to be (in northern areas) two life cycles, migrants and residents, right?  And the migrants arrive early in the spring, lay, and then emerge in the fall and head south.  And the residents overwinter as larvae, emerge and breed locally, and their offspring then again overwinter and emerge the next year.  And genetic studies have shown differences between migrants and locals, so they are distinct in any one area.  Is that right?  Migrants would then be multivoltine, residents univoltine? And the reason September oviposition is of interest is that it's too late for the locals? Sorry if I've hopelessly confused the situation - just trying to get the basics down so I can follow the discussion. I think I remember this as a usual late summer - September thing - I start seeing more CGDs at the ponds I frequent, and they are often breeding/ovipositing.  I see occasional individuals around as late as December, but I don't see enough of them to know what they're doing then.  And I should take more consistent notes on behavior, but I ususally don't. Chris On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm "It's better to be wrong than vague."  - Freeman Dyson ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:20:49 -0700 (PDT) John Matthews observed fall oviposition in Anax junius as far north as Virginia, and I've certainly seen tandem pairs in NJ well into October. We think they will begin ovipositing as soon as they are sexually mature, which seems to occur during, not after, migration. In fact, we suspect they may oviposit multiple times on the way to wherever it is they go. This was published in our chapter on Migration in Alex Cordoba-Aguilar's book of dragonflies as model organisms (2008, Oxfour U. Press).    Nevertheless, it would be very valuable to have data on fall tandems, copulating pairs, and especially oviposition anywhere along their route. If a few people over a range of latitudes would undertake to keep regular records of occurence of unmated individuals, mating behavior, and oviposition over the course of a year, that would be a gold mine of information. I tried to get similar, although less detailed, information for several years via a web site that Bob Barber set up for us, but so many respondents didn't really know odonates and so couldn't identify what they were observing that I gave up. Presumably members of this list wouldn't have that problem. Persistence and reasonably regular observations - every week or so, if possible - is key. I'd be glad to compile such data if anyone wants to pursue it, or you could just post it to the list.   I'm posting this to TexOdes as well (at least I hope so), so forgive any duplicate emails.   Mike May --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 11:25 AM Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:20:49 -0700 (PDT) John Matthews observed fall oviposition in Anax junius as far north as Virginia, and I've certainly seen tandem pairs in NJ well into October. We think they will begin ovipositing as soon as they are sexually mature, which seems to occur during, not after, migration. In fact, we suspect they may oviposit multiple times on the way to wherever it is they go. This was published in our chapter on Migration in Alex Cordoba-Aguilar's book of dragonflies as model organisms (2008, Oxfour U. Press).    Nevertheless, it would be very valuable to have data on fall tandems, copulating pairs, and especially oviposition anywhere along their route. If a few people over a range of latitudes would undertake to keep regular records of occurence of unmated individuals, mating behavior, and oviposition over the course of a year, that would be a gold mine of information. I tried to get similar, although less detailed, information for several years via a web site that Bob Barber set up for us, but so many respondents didn't really know odonates and so couldn't identify what they were observing that I gave up. Presumably members of this list wouldn't have that problem. Persistence and reasonably regular observations - every week or so, if possible - is key. I'd be glad to compile such data if anyone wants to pursue it, or you could just post it to the list.   I'm posting this to TexOdes as well (at least I hope so), so forgive any duplicate emails.   Mike May --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 11:25 AM Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:02:03 -0400 Hi Dennis, and June. Thank you both for responding. My husband and I had initially been concerned about the health of the Blue Dasher because they did look like blood-sucker insects feeding on it.. Due to the parasites' size, I would have loved to have known how to safely remove them. We have seen smaller parasites on a couple of other dragonflies. When we next go through our photo folders, I will try and find those pics for comparison. Seem to remember one shows the pest attached on the dragonfly's wings. Thank you for the encouragement to photograph as many dragonflies as we see. I had read about the tropicals coming here to South Florida. (It's swelteringly hot enough I am sure!) We are just starting out now with identifying what we photograph. Bought two books to help.. Stokes "Beginner's Guide to Dragonflies", and "Dragonflies and Damselflies of Georgia and the SouthEast," by Beaton. If there is a simple wish-list here on the group, we can be on the look-out for them in Miami. My husband uses a nice macro lens, so he can get up close and personal with them, and capture wonderful detail. I can't get as close with mine. We have found that Shark Valley in the Everglades can be a great place to photograph dragons. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Paulson To: jani Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonfly parasites? Jan, Most of the parasites you see on dragonflies are on their wing bases, and they are sandflies of the family Ceratopogonidae, usually the genus Forcipomyia. They suck blood from the basal wing veins but don't harm the dragonflies, for the most part. This family is the same group that includes the horrible sandflies (no-see'ums) that plague you in the evening in mangrove swamps and salt marshes in Florida. The ones I have seen on dragonflies look more or less like what you photographed but usually have larger wings and are a bit smaller, so I don't know if those are the same critters. I've never seen anything exactly like what you photographed. Your dragonflies are male Blue Dashers, Pachydiplax longipennis. You live in an area with no resident odonatologists, although various of us visit there from time to time. It's an area where tropical dragonflies are moving in from the West Indies, so I encourage you to photograph as many kinds of dragonflies as you see! Dennis Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:19:07 -0700 They migrate along the coast but also inland, probably over a wider front than we realize. Like birds, they may have preferred routes but get spread out from them by weather conditions if not random flight directions. On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Marion Dobbs wrote: > PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal > migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the > coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these > not the common pathways? > > Marion Dobbs > Rome (Floyd Co.) GA > spreadwing AT mac.com > pond_damsel AT comcast.net > http://www.mamomi.net > http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel > http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ > > "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one > another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be > heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:17:28 -0700 Jan, Most of the parasites you see on dragonflies are on their wing bases, and they are sandflies of the family Ceratopogonidae, usually the genus Forcipomyia. They suck blood from the basal wing veins but don't harm the dragonflies, for the most part. This family is the same group that includes the horrible sandflies (no-see'ums) that plague you in the evening in mangrove swamps and salt marshes in Florida. The ones I have seen on dragonflies look more or less like what you photographed but usually have larger wings and are a bit smaller, so I don't know if those are the same critters. I've never seen anything exactly like what you photographed. Your dragonflies are male Blue Dashers, Pachydiplax longipennis. You live in an area with no resident odonatologists, although various of us visit there from time to time. It's an area where tropical dragonflies are moving in from the West Indies, so I encourage you to photograph as many kinds of dragonflies as you see! Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:32 AM, jani wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a new member living in Miami, FL. My husband and I have become > keen dragonfly photographers over the past year. We planted a hedge > of Ixora, and discovered that attracts quite a few dragonflies to > our garden, which is nice and convenient, since wandering around > looking all over the place for them in the intense heat and humidity > isn't as much fun. > > I just created an album here named Jan Roxburgh which has a couple > of photos of a dragonfly that has two insects attached to its back. > When enlarging the photos, we could see that they have legs, > probably wings, and are attached by their mouths. Anyone know what > those critters are, and whether they harm the dragonflies? I did > research online, but didn't come up with much. We thought maybe a > gnat? > > Thanks. > > Jan > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: June Tveekrem <damselfly AT southernspreadwing.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Those red insects are mites. They are very common parasites on dragonflies. I don't know what species of mite they are. June -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD damselfly |AT| southernspreadwing.com ----- Original Message ---- From: jani <2jani AT bellsouth.net> To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:32:38 PM Subject: [se-odonata] Dragonfly parasites? Hi, I'm a new member living in Miami, FL. My husband and I have become keen dragonfly photographers over the past year. We planted a hedge of Ixora, and discovered that attracts quite a few dragonflies to our garden, which is nice and convenient, since wandering around looking all over the place for them in the intense heat and humidity isn't as much fun. I just created an album here named Jan Roxburgh which has a couple of photos of a dragonfly that has two insects attached to its back. When enlarging the photos, we could see that they have legs, probably wings, and are attached by their mouths. Anyone know what those critters are, and whether they harm the dragonflies? I did research online, but didn't come up with much. We thought maybe a gnat? Thanks. Jan Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:03:58 -0700 Chris, You're right that there are migrants and residents in the North and how they differ. They are not genetically different, as far as I recall, which surprised people when the research was done. But more likely there is a genetic progamming in these populations that provides them with the ability to emerge if they are ready to do so in late summer and then migrate south but to overwinter as larvae if they don't reach last instar in time to emerge. Those overwintering ones then emerge the next spring, breed and die. Presumably if one of them had a very fast-growing larva, it might emerge early enough to migrate south, but I don't think that is known. More likely they would not reach that stage and would overwinter, carrying on the "resident" population. Do the ones that arrive from the south in spring have larvae that take long enough so that some might overwinter? An interesting question is "how likely is it that a resident type can become a migrant or vice versa?" John Matthews studied the species extensively, and I believe his research showed that it was quite likely, as he raised eggs from the same female under different photoperiod regimes and found that photoperiod influenced developmental rate of the larvae and could turn them, essentially, into spring-emerging or fall-emerging larvae. Some of John's work is summarized in this reference: May, M. L., and J. H. Matthews. 2008. Migration in Odonata: a case study of Anax junius. In Dragonflies & Damselflies, Model Organisms for Ecological and Evolutionary Research, ed. A. Córdoba-Aguilar. Oxford University Press. The situation is more or less reversed in the southern part of the range, but with even less information. In southern Florida, most Anax junius in the spring are immature, presumably recently emerged from larvae that overwintered and likely to be heading north. There is somewhat of a hiatus in summer, not many of them (but there are some). Then in the fall there are great numbers of mature adults breeding all over the place, presumably those individuals seen migrating south along the Atlantic coast in previous months. But there are also breeding records in spring, so perhaps there is a resident population all the way down there as well. The situation in Mexico and the West Indies is even less well understood. How late in the winter do they breed at those latitudes? Are there any resident populations? Then what happens at mid latitudes such as the Carolinas and a bit farther north? Even more poorly known, I would say. Again, I think John Matthews was trying to answer these questions. The May and Matthews paper stated the belief that Common Green Darners were breeding as they headed south in the fall, with the assumption that individual dragonflies would breed somewhere, then continue farther south and breed again, perhaps multiple times. I don't think there is any evidence for this, and it would be good to know if this was indeed the case. Are those darners you saw, Chris, on their way to Florida or Cuba after their brief stop in South Carolina? Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > OK, just to get this straight, there are supposed to be (in northern > areas) two life cycles, migrants and residents, right? And the > migrants arrive early in the spring, lay, and then emerge in the > fall and head south. And the residents overwinter as larvae, emerge > and breed locally, and their offspring then again overwinter and > emerge the next year. And genetic studies have shown differences > between migrants and locals, so they are distinct in any one area. > Is that right? Migrants would then be multivoltine, residents > univoltine? > > And the reason September oviposition is of interest is that it's too > late for the locals? > > Sorry if I've hopelessly confused the situation - just trying to get > the basics down so I can follow the discussion. > > I think I remember this as a usual late summer - September thing - I > start seeing more CGDs at the ponds I frequent, and they are often > breeding/ovipositing. I see occasional individuals around as late > as December, but I don't see enough of them to know what they're > doing then. And I should take more consistent notes on behavior, > but I ususally don't. > > Chris > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > >> Chris, >> >> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the >> ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in >> this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal >> Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it >> was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south >> Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that >> behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together >> that story from all the observers we have in the field now. >> >> Dennis >> > > ************************************************************************ > Christopher E. Hill > Biology Department > Coastal Carolina University > Conway, SC 29528-1954 > chill AT coastal.edu > http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm > > "It's better to be wrong than vague." - Freeman Dyson > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Dragonfly parasites? From: "jani" <2jani AT bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:32:38 -0000 Hi, I'm a new member living in Miami, FL. My husband and I have become keen dragonfly photographers over the past year. We planted a hedge of Ixora, and discovered that attracts quite a few dragonflies to our garden, which is nice and convenient, since wandering around looking all over the place for them in the intense heat and humidity isn't as much fun. I just created an album here named Jan Roxburgh which has a couple of photos of a dragonfly that has two insects attached to its back. When enlarging the photos, we could see that they have legs, probably wings, and are attached by their mouths. Anyone know what those critters are, and whether they harm the dragonflies? I did research online, but didn't come up with much. We thought maybe a gnat? Thanks. Jan Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:22:11 -0400 PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Chris, > > > What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the > ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in > this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal > Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it > was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south > Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that > behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together > that story from all the observers we have in the field now. > > Dennis > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > >> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot >> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour >> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a >> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >> couple Carolina Bays. >> >> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >> boggy >> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. >> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >> documentation. >> >> I failed. >> >> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, >> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a >> quarter as many? >> >> The list, combined across the two dates: >> >> Swamp Spreadwings >> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females >> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >> Common Pondhawk, a couple >> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >> Golden-winged Skimmer >> Bar-winged Skimmer >> Painted Skimmer >> Blue Dasher >> Wandering Glider >> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >> enough >> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem >> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were >> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it >> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals- >> harassing- >> a-pair type scenario. >> >> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual >> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >> other dragonflies... >> >> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last >> week's floods. >> >> CH >> >> ********************************************************************* >> *** >> Christopher E. Hill >> Biology Department >> Coastal Carolina University >> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >> chill AT coastal.edu >> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >> >> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >> always >> so >> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >> - Bertrand Russell >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > . > > Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:13:16 -0400 Dennis, I have photographs of Common Green Darners ovipositing on the following dates at the following locations: 10/01/2006 - Terrell Co. in southeast GA 10/04/2005 - Montgomery Co. in centralish GA 10/17/2004 - Colquitt Co. in extreme south GA 11/25/2005 - Cook Co. in extreme south GA These locations are all latitudinally south of Conway, SC, to a greater or lesser degree (:-0)), but they are also at later dates and certainly north of Florida Marion Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ _"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge." _ Daniel Boorstin On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Chris, > > > What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the > ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in > this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal > Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it > was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south > Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that > behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together > that story from all the observers we have in the field now. > > Dennis > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > >> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot >> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour >> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a >> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >> couple Carolina Bays. >> >> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >> boggy >> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. >> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >> documentation. >> >> I failed. >> >> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, >> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a >> quarter as many? >> >> The list, combined across the two dates: >> >> Swamp Spreadwings >> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females >> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >> Common Pondhawk, a couple >> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >> Golden-winged Skimmer >> Bar-winged Skimmer >> Painted Skimmer >> Blue Dasher >> Wandering Glider >> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >> enough >> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem >> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were >> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it >> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals- >> harassing- >> a-pair type scenario. >> >> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual >> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >> other dragonflies... >> >> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last >> week's floods. >> >> CH >> >> ********************************************************************* >> *** >> Christopher E. Hill >> Biology Department >> Coastal Carolina University >> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >> chill AT coastal.edu >> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >> >> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >> always >> so >> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >> - Bertrand Russell >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > > Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:52:44 -0400 OK, just to get this straight, there are supposed to be (in northern areas) two life cycles, migrants and residents, right? And the migrants arrive early in the spring, lay, and then emerge in the fall and head south. And the residents overwinter as larvae, emerge and breed locally, and their offspring then again overwinter and emerge the next year. And genetic studies have shown differences between migrants and locals, so they are distinct in any one area. Is that right? Migrants would then be multivoltine, residents univoltine? And the reason September oviposition is of interest is that it's too late for the locals? Sorry if I've hopelessly confused the situation - just trying to get the basics down so I can follow the discussion. I think I remember this as a usual late summer - September thing - I start seeing more CGDs at the ponds I frequent, and they are often breeding/ovipositing. I see occasional individuals around as late as December, but I don't see enough of them to know what they're doing then. And I should take more consistent notes on behavior, but I ususally don't. Chris On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Chris, > > What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the > ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in > this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal > Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it > was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south > Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that > behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together > that story from all the observers we have in the field now. > > Dennis > ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm "It's better to be wrong than vague." - Freeman Dyson Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: jspippen <jspippen AT duke.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:42:16 -0400 (EDT) All, Not nearly as late as Chris's sightings, and I haven't had a chance to work them up and put them online yet, but I photographed some ovipositing Common Green Darners 29 August 2009 in southeast North Carolina (Brunswick Co. near Southport). Carolina Saddlebags were ovipositing in the same little storm water pond. Cheers, Jeff ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jeffrey S. Pippen Nicholas School of the Environment Duke University, Durham, NC 27708 http://www.duke.edu/~jspippen/nature.htm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Chris, > > What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the > ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species > extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South > Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. > They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and > I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone > to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. > > Dennis > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > >> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot >> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour >> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a >> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >> couple Carolina Bays. >> >> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy >> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. >> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >> documentation. >> >> I failed. >> >> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, >> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a >> quarter as many? >> >> The list, combined across the two dates: >> >> Swamp Spreadwings >> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females >> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >> Common Pondhawk, a couple >> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >> Golden-winged Skimmer >> Bar-winged Skimmer >> Painted Skimmer >> Blue Dasher >> Wandering Glider >> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough >> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem >> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were >> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it >> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals-harassing- >> a-pair type scenario. >> >> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual >> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >> other dragonflies... >> >> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last >> week's floods. >> >> CH >> >> ************************************************************************ >> Christopher E. Hill >> Biology Department >> Coastal Carolina University >> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >> chill AT coastal.edu >> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >> >> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always >> so >> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >> - Bertrand Russell >> >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:25:04 -0700 Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot > out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We > convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour > and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a > lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a > couple Carolina Bays. > > Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy > spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county > list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. > Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted > Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for > documentation. > > I failed. > > But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have > been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, > the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had > dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue > Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a > quarter as many? > > The list, combined across the two dates: > > Swamp Spreadwings > Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females > Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing > Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) > Common Pondhawk, a couple > Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. > Golden-winged Skimmer > Bar-winged Skimmer > Painted Skimmer > Blue Dasher > Wandering Glider > Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point > there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only > time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, > all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough > time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem > pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were > going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it > looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals- > harassing- > a-pair type scenario. > > Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual > ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by > other dragonflies... > > Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last > week's floods. > > CH > > ************************************************************************ > Christopher E. Hill > Biology Department > Coastal Carolina University > Conway, SC 29528-1954 > chill AT coastal.edu > http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm > > The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always > so > certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. > - Bertrand Russell > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:05:19 -0400 A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals-harassing- a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by other dragonflies... Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last week's floods. CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:14:34 EDT The only 12-spotted Skimmer (L. pulchella) that I've seen perched and could photograph was last September at a nearby farm. I had been visiting the farm all summer and this was the only L. pulchella I saw there. I have several photos posted that can be found with the flickr search function - here's one of them: _http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/2861810695/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/2861810695/) (mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com) He was in beautiful shape - one of the most stunning dragonflies I've ever seen. And he was either fatigued or unafraid - I was able to walk around him 360o and put my camera in his face. I assumed he was a migrant. On a different note - I'm wondering what impact our historic rains, rushing waters and flooding will have on next year's ode population? Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA In a message dated 9/21/2009 8:22:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, phenes53 AT yahoo.com writes: L. pulchella is a puzzling case. They're often noted as probable migrants near Cape May, NJ, and I've seen unexpectedly high (although not huge) numbers in association with Anax junius and Tramea spp. in areas where all the above apparently congregate to feed in the fall. The odd thing is that almost all the pulchella are clearly old and worn, whereas the "standard" migrants are fresh and fairly often not sexually mature. It would be interesting to know what the situation is in other areas. Mike May --- On Sun, 9/20/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Twelve-spotted Skimmer To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT Cc: "se-odonCc: "se-odonata AT Date: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 12:09 PM Chris, Twelve-spotted and other Libellula have been suspect, just because of their numbers and flight direction and association with known migrant species, in southbound coastal migrations in New England, I know. You're probably in a good area to observe migration, so whenever you could get to a coastal location in spring and fall, you might make interesting observations. A friend of mine visited Charleston in April some years ago and saw what she thought was a northbound coastal migration, although she didn't know the species. Of course you might see some shorebirds while you're there, which could prove distracting. Dennis On Sep 20, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Chris Hill wrote: Among the odes I've never seen in my home county on the coastal plain of SC are three "king skimmers:" Yellow-sided, Spangled and Twelve- spotted. Or flavida, cyanea and pulchella, if you lean that way. Each has more upland/northern affinities than the usual crew of common coastal plain skimmers. Yesterday I got to cross one of them off the wanted list. I stopped by the local supermarket to pick up ice cream and walked over to a little retention pond to see what was flying. Most notable were Roseate Skimmers Orthemis ferruginea, Black Saddlebags Tramea lacerata, Wandering Glider Pantala flavescens and several Common Green Darners Anax junius, with lots of mating and ovipositing activity. Nothing rare, but a nice assortment of big pretty odes doing interesting things. And then there was a male Twelve-spotted Skimmer cruising up and down the muddy shore. Hard to miss one of those! I think I've heard that there can be a fall movement of Twelve-spotted Skimmers. I don't know whether the one I saw is a "true" migrant or just a late summer individual dispersing into a new area. Nathan Dias found another individual this past May, also on the coastal plain in Charleston County, so maybe the fall date is just a coincidence, but with all the bird migration going on, it is easy to think of this as a fall migrant. Now if the fall would just send me a Red Saddlebags, a Meadowhawk of any flavor, or maybe a Phantom Darner? CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu _http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm_ (http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm) If you don't know the answer, no question is stupid. - Michael Price ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 _dennispaulson AT dennispauls_ (http://us.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dennispaulson AT comcast.net) Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: "Troy, Marla, & Cheyenne Hibbitts" <alterna2627 AT swtexas.net> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:39:33 -0500 In my neck of the woods (south Texas, right on the southern edge of the Hill Country to the west of San Antonio), the past 2 years (I've only been looking that long), we haven't seen 12-spots until at least mid-to-late August, with the bulk of their numbers appearing in September. This year was the first that I've seen females, as well. It is my impression that they're at least being hatched somewhere to the north of us, then dispersing into our area later in the summer. The males are fairly fresh adults, not too worn, but not immature either. Don't know if this qualifies as a "migration" or not, though. Troy Hibbitts Camp Wood, TX Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:21:42 -0700 (PDT) L. pulchella is a puzzling case. They're often noted as probable migrants near Cape May, NJ, and I've seen unexpectedly high (although not huge) numbers in association with Anax junius and Tramea spp. in areas where all the above apparently congregate to feed in the fall. The odd thing is that almost all the pulchella are clearly old and worn, whereas the "standard" migrants are fresh and fairly often not sexually mature. It would be interesting to know what the situation is in other areas.   Mike May --- On Sun, 9/20/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Twelve-spotted Skimmer To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 12:09 PM Chris, Twelve-spotted and other Libellula have been suspect, just because of their numbers and flight direction and association with known migrant species, in southbound coastal migrations in New England, I know. You're probably in a good area to observe migration, so whenever you could get to a coastal location in spring and fall, you might make interesting observations. A friend of mine visited Charleston in April some years ago and saw what she thought was a northbound coastal migration, although she didn't know the species. Of course you might see some shorebirds while you're there, which could prove distracting. Dennis On Sep 20, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Chris Hill wrote: Among the odes I've never seen in my home county on the coastal plain  of SC are three "king skimmers:" Yellow-sided, Spangled and Twelve-  spotted. Or flavida, cyanea and pulchella, if you lean that way.  Each has more upland/northern affinities than the usual crew of common  coastal plain skimmers. Yesterday I got to cross one of them off the wanted list. I stopped  by the local supermarket to pick up ice cream and walked over to a  little retention pond to see what was flying. Most notable were  Roseate Skimmers Orthemis ferruginea, Black Saddlebags Tramea  lacerata, Wandering Glider Pantala flavescens and several Common Green  Darners Anax junius, with lots of mating and ovipositing activity.  Nothing rare, but a nice assortment of big pretty odes doing  interesting things. And then there was a male Twelve-spotted Skimmer  cruising up and down the muddy shore. Hard to miss one of those! I think I've heard that there can be a fall movement of Twelve-spotted  Skimmers. I don't know whether the one I saw is a "true" migrant or  just a late summer individual dispersing into a new area. Nathan Dias  found another individual this past May, also on the coastal plain in  Charleston County, so maybe the fall date is just a coincidence, but  with all the bird migration going on, it is easy to think of this as a  fall migrant. Now if the fall would just send me a Red Saddlebags, a Meadowhawk of  any flavor, or maybe a Phantom Darner? CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm If you don't know the answer, no question is stupid. - Michael Price ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Subject: Re: Meadowhawk? From: June Tveekrem <damselfly AT southernspreadwing.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:22:01 -0400 Alex, The dragonfly is definitely a male meadowhawk, probably Autumn, although another possibility is Ruby Meadowhawk. You can get an ID for the mantisfly by posting to BugGuide (bugguide.net). I don't know of a general bug listserv for North Carolina, but you might find joining VA-MD-DE-Bugs useful. It's a Yahoo group. June -- June Tveekrem Columbia, Maryland, U.S. damselfly|AT|southernspreadwing.com http://SouthernSpreadwing.com Alex Netherton wrote: > I was out actually doing wildflower photography with my > (admittedly woefully inadequate) digital camera, and ran across this > dragonfly on a rock along the Swannanoa River. I called it a Yellow > Legged (Autumn) Meadowhawk, _Sympetrum vicinum,_ but I could > certainly be wrong. Please remember that I trained most of my young > adult life as a Botanist. I am not really an Entomologist, I just own > this list :-D > > Really a very showy creature, I must say. Another critter I saw when > out hunting was a Mantis Fly. I know it is not an Odonate, but know > of no forum for general bugs, and I find it of interest. > > The odd thing is that, though not really related to the Mantids (or > so "they" say), it had me thinking it was one until I realized I had > heard of Mantisflies somewhere. So odd that their general > construction is so similar to Mantids, though in different orders. > Convergence, I guess... > > I am sure someone will correct my ID of the Dragon, but if anyone has > an ID on the Mantispid, I would appreciate it. > > Thanks! -- Alex Netherton Asheville, NC http://blueridgediscovery.com http://blueridgediscovery.blogspot.com Subject: Re: Meadowhawk? From: Steve Hummel <shummel AT iowatelecom.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:30:50 -0500 Hi Alex, Looks like there is too much black on the abdomen for vicinum, but hard to tell from the photo. For general insects try Bug Guide from Iowa State University: http://bugguide.net/node/view/15740 You can post photos of insects and get advice on identifications. Steve Steve Hummel shummel AT iowatelecom.net On Sep 20, 2009, at 7:15 PM, Alex Netherton wrote: I was out actually doing wildflower photography with my (admittedly woefully inadequate) digital camera, and ran across this dragonfly on a rock along the Swannanoa River. I called it a Yellow Legged (Autumn) Meadowhawk,Sympetrum vicinum, but I could certainly be wrong. Please remember that I trained most of my young adult life as a Botanist. I am not really an Entomologist, I just own this list :-D Really a very showy creature, I must say. Another critter I saw when out hunting was a Mantis Fly. I know it is not an Odonate, but know of no forum for general bugs, and I find it of interest. The odd thing is that, though not really related to the Mantids (or so "they" say), it had me thinking it was one until I realized I had heard of Mantisflies somewhere. So odd that their general construction is so similar to Mantids, though in different orders. Convergence, I guess... I am sure someone will correct my ID of the Dragon, but if anyone has an ID on the Mantispid, I would appreciate it. Thanks! -- Alex Netherton Asheville, NC http://blueridgediscovery.com http://blueridgediscovery.blogspot.com Subject: Meadowhawk? From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:15:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:09:50 -0700 Chris, Twelve-spotted and other Libellula have been suspect, just because of their numbers and flight direction and association with known migrant species, in southbound coastal migrations in New England, I know. You're probably in a good area to observe migration, so whenever you could get to a coastal location in spring and fall, you might make interesting observations. A friend of mine visited Charleston in April some years ago and saw what she thought was a northbound coastal migration, although she didn't know the species. Of course you might see some shorebirds while you're there, which could prove distracting. Dennis On Sep 20, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > Among the odes I've never seen in my home county on the coastal plain > of SC are three "king skimmers:" Yellow-sided, Spangled and Twelve- > spotted. Or flavida, cyanea and pulchella, if you lean that way. > Each has more upland/northern affinities than the usual crew of common > coastal plain skimmers. > > Yesterday I got to cross one of them off the wanted list. I stopped > by the local supermarket to pick up ice cream and walked over to a > little retention pond to see what was flying. Most notable were > Roseate Skimmers Orthemis ferruginea, Black Saddlebags Tramea > lacerata, Wandering Glider Pantala flavescens and several Common Green > Darners Anax junius, with lots of mating and ovipositing activity. > Nothing rare, but a nice assortment of big pretty odes doing > interesting things. And then there was a male Twelve-spotted Skimmer > cruising up and down the muddy shore. Hard to miss one of those! > > I think I've heard that there can be a fall movement of Twelve-spotted > Skimmers. I don't know whether the one I saw is a "true" migrant or > just a late summer individual dispersing into a new area. Nathan Dias > found another individual this past May, also on the coastal plain in > Charleston County, so maybe the fall date is just a coincidence, but > with all the bird migration going on, it is easy to think of this as a > fall migrant. > > Now if the fall would just send me a Red Saddlebags, a Meadowhawk of > any flavor, or maybe a Phantom Darner? > > CH > > ************************************************************************ > Christopher E. Hill > Biology Department > Coastal Carolina University > Conway, SC 29528-1954 > chill AT coastal.edu > http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm > > If you don't know the answer, no question is stupid. - Michael Price > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:22:10 -0400 Among the odes I've never seen in my home county on the coastal plain of SC are three "king skimmers:" Yellow-sided, Spangled and Twelve- spotted. Or flavida, cyanea and pulchella, if you lean that way. Each has more upland/northern affinities than the usual crew of common coastal plain skimmers. Yesterday I got to cross one of them off the wanted list. I stopped by the local supermarket to pick up ice cream and walked over to a little retention pond to see what was flying. Most notable were Roseate Skimmers Orthemis ferruginea, Black Saddlebags Tramea lacerata, Wandering Glider Pantala flavescens and several Common Green Darners Anax junius, with lots of mating and ovipositing activity. Nothing rare, but a nice assortment of big pretty odes doing interesting things. And then there was a male Twelve-spotted Skimmer cruising up and down the muddy shore. Hard to miss one of those! I think I've heard that there can be a fall movement of Twelve-spotted Skimmers. I don't know whether the one I saw is a "true" migrant or just a late summer individual dispersing into a new area. Nathan Dias found another individual this past May, also on the coastal plain in Charleston County, so maybe the fall date is just a coincidence, but with all the bird migration going on, it is easy to think of this as a fall migrant. Now if the fall would just send me a Red Saddlebags, a Meadowhawk of any flavor, or maybe a Phantom Darner? CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm If you don't know the answer, no question is stupid. - Michael Price Subject: [Fwd: Hilton Pond 09/01/09 (Damsels & Dragons)] [1 Attachment] From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:34:44 -0400 Subject: Re: "Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood!" AAh! Mr. Rogers-Good Times!! and Dragonflies-well most of the time! From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:42:33 -0400 Subject: Ruubyspot From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:47:40 -0400 I don't often post, but I was out on the Swannanoa River yesterday, and saw an Rubyspot, actually several. I guess they are everywhere, but this is the first year I have noticed them. Also saw an Ebony Jewelwing (of course, near a river). Also saw a pair of Rubyspots in tandem. Hoped to see the "wheel", but didn't happen. No camera on me, of course... -- Alex Netherton Asheville, NC http://blueridgediscovery.com http://blueridgediscovery.blogspot.com Subject: Re: Asheville, NC odonatist? From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:40:21 -0400 Subject: Asheville, NC odonatist? From: June Tveekrem <damselfly AT southernspreadwing.com> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:43:57 -0400 Does anybody on this list look at odonates near Asheville, NC on a regular basis? By "regular" I guess I mean at least once a year. June -- June Tveekrem Columbia, Maryland, U.S. damselfly|AT|southernspreadwing.com http://SouthernSpreadwing.com Subject: What would be the opposite of "Sting?" Erythemis simplicicollis, my personal "Bug Terminator" From: Martha Smith <scldrgnfly AT yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:30:42 -0700 (PDT) The story is pretty neat, but I just had to put this in: Syllogistically, my story really doesn't describe the the opposite action of "Sting," but it could describe the motivation behind the actions involved, at least from the perspective of the human on the receiving end. Obviously, from the perspective of the Odonates, both actions would be for "self"-preservation (Anthropomorphic term? Are dragonflies cognitive of a social identity?) The other day I was at my daughter's school tennis match and was sitting on the bleachers with the other parents and players watching her play. I was quite absorbed in watching, trying to ignore the insistent gnats that plague us at the matches every year in this rural farm country. First, it felt like every so often, someone was tapping me softly on the backs of my legs and then I turned when something caught my eye and the girl next to me started to laugh. She and everyone else were watching the male Erythemis simplicicollis (Eastern Pondhawk) that had caught my eye. He was flying back and forth in front of us (we were on the first bleacher), but every so often he would land on the ground between my feet or a stick just behind my left leg, after plucking a gnat from the back of my leg or behind my bent knee. It was so funny, because he stayed so long and sat munching while we looked on. At least five or six times he even landed on the cross-piece of my sandals looking up as he ate his tasty morsels (not that I would make a practice of it, but have any of you accidently gotten a gnat in your mouth? They taste kind of sweet). I have no idea how many tiresome gnats he consumed, but there were hardly any around me when he left about 15 minutes later. Of course, with the school cow nosing at the cyclone fence around the tennis courts, and the cotton and tobacco fields nearby, it didn't take long for the gnats to discover his absence. Martha Edwards Smith Subject: Horry County, SC: elusive emeralds and Georgia River Cruiser From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:27:02 -0400 Ahoy, Anisopteran Antagonizers, Well, we had some logistics issues and then at our first stop (Simpson Creek and trib, the latter almost completely dry), there were so few odes (5 species!) that Gary Phillips and I skipped Clear Pond, abandoned our big day ambitions early yesterday and just hit one or two scenic spots yesterday on local streams and rivers. And I hit a pond later on. The best hour (for me, at least) was spent on a sandy road through pine woods, watching Emeralds (and one slightly thicker mystery dragon) fly overhead, tantalizingly close (but in three swings, I was about 2 feet too short each time). The only Somatochlora emeralds I've found around here so far are Fine-lined, but especially in a new spot (I'd never been to this road before) hope springs eternal that there will be something new for me (and for the county list). Although I never did catch an emerald, a bonus was a Georgia River Cruiser that came by at shoulder height and was in my net before he or I had time to think about it. I see Royal River Cruisers constantly on the local rivers, but puzzlingly, never see the smaller Macromias there. I had a flyby sighting earlier this summer (on a road, not a river), but this is actually the first one I've been able to catch and examine here in Horry Co. As for those emeralds, I may need a longer net. The (short) list: Variable Dancer, Argia fumipennis fumipennis Powdered Dancer, Argia moesta Blue-tipped Dancer, Argia tibialis Rambur's Forktail, Ischura ramburii Fragile Forktail, Ischnura posita Familiar Bluet, Enallagma civile Orange Bluet, Enallagma signatum Swamp Darner, Epiaeschna heros Cyrano Darner (? poorly seen), Nasiaeschna pentacantha Emerald sp. Somatochlora sp. Georgia River Cruiser, Macromia illinoisensis georgina Royal River Cruiser, Macromia taeniolata Four-spotted Pennant, Brachymesia gravida Calico Pennant, Celithemis elisa Halloween Pennant, Celithemis eponina Common Pondhawk, Erythemis simplicicollis Slaty Skimmer, Libellula incesta Needham's Skimmer, Libellula needhami Great Blue Skimmer, Libellula vibrans Roseate Skimmer, Orthemis ferruginea Blue Dasher, Pachydiplax longipennis Wandering Glider, Pantala flavescens Eastern Amberwing, Perithemis tenera Common Whitetail, Plathymis lydia Carolina Saddlebags, Tramea carolina Black Saddlebags, Tramea lacerata CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm If all you have is a hammer, pretty soon everything starts looking like a nail. Subject: Rabun Co., GA From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:00:56 -0400 There aren't a lot of accessible ponds in the NE GA mountains, so I continue to monitor rivers and streams. This past weekend I had occasion to be in Clayton, GA, and decided to spend an hour checking the little nameless sand-bottomed stream that wends its way through the town. This is the location where I had five gomphid species on the 13th of June, along with a nice and abundant assortment of damsels and skimmers. In the words of one of Bob Dylan's more recent songs, things have changed. This day I found the following species: Ebony Jewelwing [Calopteryx maculata] - 21 Variable (Violet) dancer [Argia fumipennis violacea] - 49 Fawn Darner [Boyeria vinosa] - 1 Eastern Pondhawk [Erythemis simplicicollis] - 1 Blue Dasher [Pachydiplax longipennis] - 1 Marion Dobbs 9 Bridlewood Lane Rome GA 30165 ecurlew AT mac.com http://www.mamomi.net http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ http://ponddamsel.phanfare.com/ "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge." _ Daniel Boorstin Subject: NC Sandhills Odes August 23 From: birdcr AT concentric.net Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:12:04 -0400 Folks, Last Sunday I met up with Dan Bogar and Jerry Mc Williams visiting from PA and we checked out the sandhills gamelands. We all had new bugs we had never seen before, for me it was Burgandy Bluet and I also got my first photos of Fawn Darner and Georgia River Cruiser. The day started out very gloomy so our first stop was a creek along Thunder Rd. We looked over the bridge onto the stream and the joe-pye-weed there was covered in Lace-winged Roadside Skipper, one flower had 12 of them in all we esimated 60 at the stream itself. The NC record count was just 42 lace-wings, by the tie we reached the Richmond County line 100 lace-wings were estimated!! I'm left wondering what if we'd checked the stream in Richmond County around the corner that hosts a lot more joe-pye-weed if there might have been even more lace-wings there. Red-veined Pennants I had just one site in the sandhills for it and we never made it there. New sites for red-veined were Gum Swamp Lake and the lake downstream on Gum Swamp Creek, also Scotland lake. I'd have to say that most or all the larger lakes in the gamelands likely have Red-veined Pennants. Ornate Pennant seemed to be everywhere, more than most years. Odonates seen first in Moore County, then Richmond County and lastly Scotland County county Comet Darner 0 0 2 Fawn Darner 1 2 2 Swamp Darner 0 0 1 Dragonhunter 0 0 1 Georgia River Cruiser 0 0 3 Amanda's Pennant 0 3 20 Red-veined Pennant 0 0 5 Calico Pennant 0 0 14 Banded Pennant 0 2 15 Ornate Pennant 0 6 50+ Eastern Pondhawk ` 10 30 50+ Little Blue Dragonlet 0 5 25 Golden-winged Skimmer 0 4 20 Yellow-sided Skimmer 0 0 5 Slaty Skimmer 2 3 10 Great Blue Skimmer 1 0 0 Eastern Amberwing 0 0 2 Carolina Saddlebags 0 0 6 Sparkling Jewelwing 6 2 3 Ebony Jewelwing 1 0 6 American Rubyspot 0 0 3 Smoky Rubyspot 0 3 3 Swamp Spreadwing 0 4 30 Seepage Dancer 0 2 10 Variable Dancer 4 6 30 Powdered Dancer 3 8 40 Blue-tipped Dancer 0 0 2 Cherry Bluet 0 0 14 Burgundy Bluet 0 0 6 Citrine Forktail 0 1 2 Lilypad Forktail 0 0 1 Fragile Forktail 1 0 3 Furtive Forktail 0 0 1 Cheers, Randy Emmitt Rougemont, NC Subject: Re: Clear Pond, Horry Co., SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:39:31 -0700 Chris, you should be smug in having such a great place nearby to watch the comings and goings of odonates. I spent about an hour and a half at two lakes in Kitsap County, Washington, yesterday, and here's what I saw in comparison: Spotted Spreadwing - 2 Northern Bluet - 25 (could have included a few Boreal Bluets) Tule Bluet - 2 Pacific Forktail - 20 Western Forktail - 1 Canada Darner - 25 Variable Darner - 4 probably additional species of Aeshna in these totals Eight-spotted Skimmer - 8 Blue Dasher - 5 Saffron-winged Meadowhawk - 2 Five or 10 years ago, I would have seen 2-3x as many individuals and at least a few more species at these localities, but we are in drought, and the species that breed in the shallowest, marshy parts of these lakes are disappearing, as well as populations in general declining. Imagine drought in the Pacific Northwest, an area defined by raininess! Dennis On Aug 25, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > I visited Clear Pond in Conway, SC today, and a pair of nearby > retention ponds, too, from about 1020-1150 this morning, I found > > Cherry Bluet - 3 > Atlantic Bluet - 3 > Burgundy Bluet - 2 > Citrine Forktail - 3 > Southern Sprite - 4 > Swamp Spreadwing - 14 (!) > > Unid. Bluet - 8 > Unid. teneral Damsels - 3 > > Common Green Darner - 2 > Comet Darner - 6 > Amanda's Pennant - 50 > Red-veined Pennant - 5 > Halloween Pennant - 1 > Banded Pennant - 4 > Ornate Pennant - 8 > Common Pondhawk - 17 > Little Blue Dragonlet - 30 > Golden-winged Skimmer - 12 > Roseate Skimmer - 1 > Blue Dasher - 34 > Wandering Glider - 3 > Eastern Amberwing - 4 > Common Whitetail - 4 > Carolina Saddlebags - 31 > > The bluets were few, and mostly females or youngsters. One of the > retention ponds, which used to be good for dozens of Familiar Bluets > around the edge, is pretty much dead and anoxic now, without a single > damselfly. I wonder if that pond, which was dug maybe two or three > years ago, has moved in the successional path past the "familiar bluet > stage." Lots of Swamp Spreadwings and Red-veined Pennants at Clear > Pond, probably high counts for each of them there. > > CH > > ********************************************************************** > ** > Christopher E. Hill > Biology Department > Coastal Carolina University > Conway, SC 29528-1954 > chill AT coastal.edu > http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Clear Pond, Horry Co., SC From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:20:15 -0400 I visited Clear Pond in Conway, SC today, and a pair of nearby retention ponds, too, from about 1020-1150 this morning, I found Cherry Bluet - 3 Atlantic Bluet - 3 Burgundy Bluet - 2 Citrine Forktail - 3 Southern Sprite - 4 Swamp Spreadwing - 14 (!) Unid. Bluet - 8 Unid. teneral Damsels - 3 Common Green Darner - 2 Comet Darner - 6 Amanda's Pennant - 50 Red-veined Pennant - 5 Halloween Pennant - 1 Banded Pennant - 4 Ornate Pennant - 8 Common Pondhawk - 17 Little Blue Dragonlet - 30 Golden-winged Skimmer - 12 Roseate Skimmer - 1 Blue Dasher - 34 Wandering Glider - 3 Eastern Amberwing - 4 Common Whitetail - 4 Carolina Saddlebags - 31 The bluets were few, and mostly females or youngsters. One of the retention ponds, which used to be good for dozens of Familiar Bluets around the edge, is pretty much dead and anoxic now, without a single damselfly. I wonder if that pond, which was dug maybe two or three years ago, has moved in the successional path past the "familiar bluet stage." Lots of Swamp Spreadwings and Red-veined Pennants at Clear Pond, probably high counts for each of them there. CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm Subject: Re: Fort Gordon, GA 8/23/09 From: "Lois Stacey" <croakie AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:25:41 -0400 Dennis, Depending on which way you go I live 2 to 5 miles from the Savannah River. I'm also near the top of a hill, that may be another factor. I just never expected to find a Macromia in an urban setting like this. It is an older neighborhood, in fact from here to the river is the older part of town, so there are lots of mature trees and larger lots, not the usual urban wasteland. As near as I can tell they stayed in the lower branches of the pine for at least 30 minutes. I went out occasionally hoping at least one of them was flying and could be caught but they were always up there. When they finally weren't there, they were no where to be found. Lois ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Paulson To: Lois Stacey Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Fort Gordon, GA 8/23/09 Lois, I'd say you were just lucky! I don't think there is any way a female can signal to a male other than just being visible. How far are you from the nearest Macromia habitat? It's always of interest to know where dragonflies mate, and I often wonder if many of them don't mate far from water. Dennis On Aug 23, 2009, at 7:22 PM, Lois Stacey wrote: I spent a few hours this morning bugging along Doughertry Rd and the Rachel Lakes on Fort Gordon. There were not a lot of odes to put it mildly. I was very surprised that there were few odes of any kind around the lakes, not even the usual skimmers. Most of the odes I did see were along the road and nearby open areas. I only had 2 individual damselflies total for the whole trip also. In a new twist for me, the most abundant ode of the day was Celithemis amanda, not the pondhawk! In fact, pondhawk wasn't even a close second, Erythrodiplax miniscula was. The total list for about 4 hours is: Celithemis amanda Amanda's Pennant Celithemis fasciata Banded Pennant Erythemis simplicicollis Eastern Pondhawk Tramea carolina Carolina Saddlebags Pantala flavescens Wandering Glider Erythrodiplax miniscula Little Blue Dragonlet Libellula auripennis Golden-winged Skimmer Argia bipunctulata Seepage Dancer Macromia sp. A really strange twist to the day; when I got home I was out in the garden and noticed a Macromia in the yard. This ode was patrolling a route about 30 feet long between my and my neighbor's house. I've never had a Macromia here before, I'm in a small town, but I'm in the middle of it! I went to the car and got my net, and the house for binocs, and when I got back there were 2! And just my luck, he grabbed her and in tandem they headed up 20 feet or so into a pine tree and stayed there. This is not where I expect to have one Macromia, much less two. Do dragonflies signal somehow to let mates know they're in an area, especially away from water? I've never seen a cruiser near my yard, and today I have a pair! Lois Stacey North Augusta, SC (Aiken Cnty) www.augustaaikenaudubon.org ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Horry County Bug Chase - you're invited From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:30:17 -0400 As we have done twice before, Gary Phillips and I will be running around Horry County, SC, trying to see as many dragonflies and damselfies as possible in a day again. Tentative date is next Thursday - 3 September. We're hoping to have a completely rain-free day, but if we do it will be the first time. As usual, if anyone wants to joins us for part or all of the day, you're welcome to. We usually visit about 8 sites, and total 35-45 species. If all the stars aligned, we could probably hit 50. Unlike a serious birding big day, with constant time pressure and a lot of driving, we take our time, Gary does a lot of photography, and has time to teach me a few butterflies. If you're interested in joining us, drop me a line. For those who have the stamina to browse such things, I put the lists from our last two efforts, from a year ago August and this past May, below. Chris ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm Good judgement comes from experience. The most useful experience comes from bad judgement August 10, last year, on a cloudy day with some rain: Swamp Spreadwing, Lestes vigilax Blue-fronted Dancer, Argia apicalis Powdered Dancer, Argia moesta Blue-tipped Dancer, Argia tibialis Double-striped Bluet, Enallagma basidens Familiar Bluet, Enallagma civile Cherry Bluet, Enallagma concisum Atlantic Bluet, Enallagma doubledayi Citrine Forktail, Ischnura hastata Fragile Forktail, Ischnura posita Rambur's Forktail, Ischnura ramburii Comet Darner, Anax longipes Russet-tipped Clubtail, Stylurus plagiatus Royal River Cruiser, Macromia illinoisensis Four-spotted Pennant, Brachemisia gravida Amanda's Pennant, Celithemis amanda Red-veined Pennant, Celithemis bertha Calico Pennant, Celithemis elisa Halloween Pennant, Celithemis eponina Banded Pennant, Celithemis fasciata Ornate Pennant, Celithemis ornata Eastern Pondhawk, Erythemis simplicicollis Little Blue Dragonlet, Erythrodiplax minuscula Golden-winged Skimmer, Libellula auripennis Slaty Skimmer, Libellula incesta Widow Skimmer, Libellula luctuosa Needham's Skimmer, Libellula needhami Marl Pennant, Macrodiplax balteata Roseate Skimmer, Orthemis ferruginea Blue Dasher, Pachydiplax longipes Wandering Glider, Pantala flavescens Eastern Amberwing, Perithemis tenera Common Whitetail, Plathemis lydia Carolina Saddlebags, Tramea carolina Black Saddlebags, Tramea lacerata (and added these the next day, Aug 11, when the sun came back out) Orange Bluet, Enallagma signatum Common Green Darner, Anax junius Swamp Darner, Epiaeschna heros Black-shouldered Spinyleg, Dromogomphus spinosus Great Blue Skimmer, Libellula vibrans May 8, 2009: Sparkling Jewelwing, Calopteryx dimidiata Ebony Jewelwing, Calopteryx maculata Variable Dancer, Argia fumipennis Blue-tipped Dancer, Argia tibialis Double-striped Bluet, Enallagma basidens Familiar Bluet, Enallagma civile Cherry Bluet, Enallagma concisum Attenuated Bluet, Enallagma daeckii Turquoise Bluet, Enallagma divagans Atlantic Bluet, Enallagma doubledayi Burgundy Bluet, Enallagma dubium Orange Bluet, Enallagma signatum Vesper Bluet, Enallagma vesperum Blackwater Bluet, Enallagma weewa Citrine Forktail, Ischnura hastata Lilypad Forktail, Ischnura kelicottii Fragile Forktail, Ischnura posita Rambur's Forktail, Ischnura ramburi Southern Sprite, Nehallenia integricollis Elegant Spreadwing, Lestes inequalis Swamp Spreadwing, Lestes vigilax Common Green Darner, Anax junius Comet Darner, Anax longipes Swamp Darner, Epiaeschna heros Pygmy Darner sp., Gomphaeschna sp. Gray-green Clubtail, Arigomphus pallidus Lancet Clubtail, Gomphus exilis Prince Baskettail, Epitheca princeps Umber Shadowdragon, Neurocordulia obsoleta Amanda's Pennant, Celithemis amanda Calico Pennant, Celithemis elisa Ornate Pennant, Celithemis ornata Common Pondhawk, Erythemis simplicicollis Little Blue Dragonlet, Erythrodiplax miniscula Blue Corporal, Ladona deplanata Golden-winged Skimmer, Libellula auripennis Bar-winged Skimmer, Libellula axilena Painted Skimmer, Libellula semifasciata Great Blue Skimmer, Libellula vibrans Slaty Skimmer, Libelulla incesta Blue Dasher, Pachydiplax longipennis Wandering Glider, Pantala flavescens Eastern Amberwing, Perithemis tenera Common Whitetail, Plathemis lydia Carolina Saddlebags, Tramea carolina