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20 Nov Re: Warning letter from Bioquip ["MARIE HEMEON" ] 19 Nov meadowhawks ["Ali Iyoob" ] 18 Nov Re: Warning letter from Bioquip [Dennis Paulson ] 17 Nov Re: Warning letter from Bioquip [Marion Dobbs ] 17 Nov Warning letter from Bioquip [azurebluet ] 17 Nov Warning letter from Bioquip [azurebluet ] 17 Nov Warning letter from Bioquip [azurebluet ] 17 Nov Warning letter from Bioquip [azurebluet ] 10 Nov Late season odes of the petite variety [Marion Dobbs ] 10 Nov meadowhawks and other late odes [] 9 Nov late odes and leps ["gljeinwv AT juno.com" ] 6 Nov Late season odonates in Early County GA 11/4/2009 ["Giff Beaton" ] 4 Nov Re: Fw: Lost Hiker [] 04 Nov Re: Fw: Lost Hiker [Alex Netherton ] 3 Nov Fw: Lost Hiker [] 30 Oct Still a few odes around in Northern SC [Chris Hill ] 24 Oct Hyacinth Glider (Miathyria marcella) in Richmond County, GA ["croakie1" ] 10 Oct Southwestern GA Odonates on 10/8/2009 ["Giff Beaton" ] 8 Oct Re: Meadowhawk [Dennis Paulson ] 08 Oct Re: [NCOdonates] NC mystery damsel photo [Alex Netherton ] 08 Oct Re: Meadowhawk [Alex Netherton ] 07 Oct Still a few odes in NE Georgia [Marion Dobbs ] 6 Oct NC mystery damsel photo ["birdranger" ] 6 Oct Ovipositing CGD; migrants [] 5 Oct Re: Meadowhawk it was not. Thanks! ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 5 Oct Re: Meadowhawk [] 5 Oct Re: Meadowhawk [Dennis Paulson ] 5 Oct meadowhawk [Greg Dodge ] 5 Oct Meadowhawk ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 4 Oct Lynches River County Park, Florence Co., South Carolina [Chris Hill ] 30 Sep Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 30 Sep Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Marion Dobbs ] 30 Sep Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 30 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 29 Sep Re: Anax junius spring emergence [Steve Hummel ] 29 Sep Re: Anax junius spring emergence [Dennis Paulson ] 29 Sep Anax junius spring emergence [Hal White ] 29 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 29 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Bruce Grimes ] 29 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 29 Sep Re: Fwd: [TexOdes] Fw: [texbirds] FW: Dragonfly takes down a hummingbird ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [] 28 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? [] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC ["SL Brown" ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 28 Sep Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Mike May ] 28 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? ["Jan Roxburgh" ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Re: Dragonfly parasites? [June Tveekrem ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Dragonfly parasites? ["jani" ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Marion Dobbs ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Marion Dobbs ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Chris Hill ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [jspippen ] 28 Sep Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC [Dennis Paulson ] 28 Sep Late Skimmers Conway SC [Chris Hill ] 22 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer [] 22 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer ["Troy, Marla, & Cheyenne Hibbitts" ] 21 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer [] 21 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer [Mike May ] 20 Sep Re: Meadowhawk? [June Tveekrem ] 20 Sep Re: Meadowhawk? [Steve Hummel ] 20 Sep Meadowhawk? [Alex Netherton ] 20 Sep Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer [Dennis Paulson ] 20 Sep Twelve-spotted Skimmer [Chris Hill ] 16 Sep [Fwd: Hilton Pond 09/01/09 (Damsels & Dragons)] [1 Attachment] [Alex Netherton ] 15 Sep Re: "Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood!" AAh! Mr. Rogers-Good Times!! and Dragonflies-well most of the time! [Alex Netherton ] Subject: Re: Warning letter from Bioquip From: "MARIE HEMEON" <mariekevinhemeon AT msn.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:32:13 -0500 I called Bioquip to see what was up. I think people should know it was only a problem (according to the woman I spoke to) if you placed an online order. I had done a phone order and am safe. I would take it mail orders are safe too but, it wouldn't hurt to call and make sure before you go through the hassle. Luck, Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: azurebluet To: Odonata-1 List ; SE Odonate List ; NE Ode List ; TexOdes AT yahoogroups.com ; nw_odonata AT yahoogroups.com ; CalOdes AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:50 PM Subject: [NEodes] Warning letter from Bioquip Apologies for cross posting. I received a letter today from Bioquip Products stating that their web server had been compromised and that some party had gained access to customer names, addresses, phone numbers, e-mail addresses and most importantly, credit card numbers. Bioquip states that they do not have or keep records of credit card security codes, social security numbers, dates of birth, or driver's license information so that information was not taken. The breach occurred on or about September 14, 2009. The letter is dated October 19, 2009. I assume they are sending this letter to all of their customers but I thought it would be prudent to spread the warning. The letter advises customers to close their current credit card account and check their credit card statements and credit reports for fraudulent activity. The world we live in. Best, Ed Lam Subject: meadowhawks From: "Ali Iyoob" <aliiyoob AT nc.rr.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:23:54 -0500 Today, I had 3 Blue-faced Meadowhawks and 1 Autumn. Ali Iyoob Subject: Re: Warning letter from Bioquip From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:52:39 -0800 No wonder you have so many e-mail addresses, Marion! The last stuff I purchased from BioQuip was over five years ago, and I didn't get a letter. It's interesting that individuals of those four odonate species are still emerging. There are some species in which the larvae are in last instar in the fall, and they just keep emerging until low temperatures put a stop to it. They are very different from the "spring" species such as Blue Corporals, Springtime Darners, Lancet Clubtails, and many, many others that are in last instar in the fall but are in a state of diapause (arrested development) that prevents them from emerging until water temps begin to rise in the following spring. Dennis On Nov 17, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Marion Dobbs wrote: > I also received this letter, and I've not made a purchase from Bioquip in almost two years, so it seems they're doing a good job of notifying customers. Let me put in a, probably inappropriate, plug for utilizing one time use credit card numbers, in effect aliases, if your card provider offers that service. I do this with all my online purchases and also use an alias email address for the same reason. It can be closed at any time if a problem occurs. Many ISP's offer this service as well. > > > As Ed days...The world we live in. But we have to learn to live in it. > > Now for some odonate content. Here in northwest Georgia, I had a few odes still flying as of this past weekend, and in good numbers, at an old fish hatchery in Floyd Co.: > > Citrine Forktail (Ischnura hastata) > Fragile Forktail (Ischnura posita) > Blue-faced Meadowhawk (Sympetrum ambiguum) > Autumn Meadowhawk (Sympetrum vicinum) > > Many of the forktails were tenerals. Quite a few of the meadowhawks were fresh. > > Marion Dobbs > Rome (Floyd Co.) GA > spreadwing AT mac.com > pond_damsel AT comcast.net > http://www.mamomi.net > http://ponddamsel.phanfare.com > http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ > . > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Warning letter from Bioquip From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:03:03 -0500 I also received this letter, and I've not made a purchase from Bioquip in almost two years, so it seems they're doing a good job of notifying customers. Let me put in a, probably inappropriate, plug for utilizing one time use credit card numbers, in effect aliases, if your card provider offers that service. I do this with all my online purchases and also use an alias email address for the same reason. It can be closed at any time if a problem occurs. Many ISP's offer this service as well. As Ed days...The world we live in. But we have to learn to live in it. Now for some odonate content. Here in northwest Georgia, I had a few odes still flying as of this past weekend, and in good numbers, at an old fish hatchery in Floyd Co.: Citrine Forktail (Ischnura hastata) Fragile Forktail (Ischnura posita) Blue-faced Meadowhawk (Sympetrum ambiguum) Autumn Meadowhawk (Sympetrum vicinum) Many of the forktails were tenerals. Quite a few of the meadowhawks were fresh. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://ponddamsel.phanfare.com http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Nov 17, 2009, at 9:50 PM, azurebluet wrote: > > Apologies for cross posting. > > I received a letter today from Bioquip Products stating that their > web server had been compromised and that some party had gained > access to customer names, addresses, phone numbers, e-mail > addresses and most importantly, credit card numbers. Bioquip states > that they do not have or keep records of credit card security > codes, social security numbers, dates of birth, or driver's license > information so that information was not taken. The breach occurred > on or about September 14, 2009. The letter is dated October 19, > 2009. I assume they are sending this letter to all of their > customers but I thought it would be prudent to spread the warning. > The letter advises customers to close their current credit card > account and check their credit card statements and credit reports > for fraudulent activity. > > The world we live in. > > Best, > Ed Lam > > Subject: Warning letter from Bioquip From: azurebluet <azurebluet AT aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:50:14 -0500 Apologies for cross posting. I received a letter today from Bioquip Products stating that their web server had been compromised and that some party had gained access to customer names, addresses, phone numbers, e-mail addresses and most importantly, credit card numbers. Bioquip states that they do not have or keep records of credit card security codes, social security numbers, dates of birth, or driver's license information so that information was not taken. The breach occurred on or about September 14, 2009. The letter is dated October 19, 2009. I assume they are sending this letter to all of their customers but I thought it would be prudent to spread the warning. The letter advises customers to close their current credit card account and check their credit card statements and credit reports for fraudulent activity. The world we live in. Best, Ed Lam Subject: Warning letter from Bioquip From: azurebluet <azurebluet AT aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:50:14 -0500 Apologies for cross posting. I received a letter today from Bioquip Products stating that their web server had been compromised and that some party had gained access to customer names, addresses, phone numbers, e-mail addresses and most importantly, credit card numbers. Bioquip states that they do not have or keep records of credit card security codes, social security numbers, dates of birth, or driver's license information so that information was not taken. The breach occurred on or about September 14, 2009. The letter is dated October 19, 2009. I assume they are sending this letter to all of their customers but I thought it would be prudent to spread the warning. The letter advises customers to close their current credit card account and check their credit card statements and credit reports for fraudulent activity. The world we live in. Best, Ed Lam Subject: Warning letter from Bioquip From: azurebluet <azurebluet AT aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:50:14 -0500 Apologies for cross posting. I received a letter today from Bioquip Products stating that their web server had been compromised and that some party had gained access to customer names, addresses, phone numbers, e-mail addresses and most importantly, credit card numbers. Bioquip states that they do not have or keep records of credit card security codes, social security numbers, dates of birth, or driver's license information so that information was not taken. The breach occurred on or about September 14, 2009. The letter is dated October 19, 2009. I assume they are sending this letter to all of their customers but I thought it would be prudent to spread the warning. The letter advises customers to close their current credit card account and check their credit card statements and credit reports for fraudulent activity. The world we live in. Best, Ed Lam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Warning letter from Bioquip From: azurebluet <azurebluet AT aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:50:14 -0500 Apologies for cross posting. I received a letter today from Bioquip Products stating that their web server had been compromised and that some party had gained access to customer names, addresses, phone numbers, e-mail addresses and most importantly, credit card numbers. Bioquip states that they do not have or keep records of credit card security codes, social security numbers, dates of birth, or driver's license information so that information was not taken. The breach occurred on or about September 14, 2009. The letter is dated October 19, 2009. I assume they are sending this letter to all of their customers but I thought it would be prudent to spread the warning. The letter advises customers to close their current credit card account and check their credit card statements and credit reports for fraudulent activity. The world we live in. Best, Ed Lam Subject: Late season odes of the petite variety From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:42:10 -0500 I went this past Sunday, the 8th, to a local lake (30 ac) and adjacent pond (5 ac) in Floyd Co., NW GA, to observe the arriving wintering waterfowl. It was a cool but sunny day, the last of several. There were hundreds of winged things floating on the water and a few much smaller, daintier, winged things on or near the shore. I walked about 25 yds of pond shoreline and counted 33 Familiar Bluets (Enallagma civile). At the lake, from where I stood scoping the ducks, I observed a few more of this species and also a couple of Rambur's Forktails (Ischnura ramburii). Interestingly, I never see the latter species at the small pond. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://ponddamsel.phanfare.com http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "Nobody climbs mountains for scientific reasons. Science is used to raise money for the expeditions, but you really climb for the hell of it."_Edmund Hillary Subject: meadowhawks and other late odes From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:53:35 EST This past weekend at Huie/Newman Wetlands, south of Atlanta, the only odes flying were a few Fragile Forktails (Ischnura posita) and one male Common Green Darner (Anax junius). I last saw our Blue-faced Meadowhawks (Sympetrum ambiguum) at the end of October, but we haven't had a hard frost yet so I bet they're still around. I was surprised to see photos of meadowhawks on Flickr that were taken this week in New York and Maine. As for butterflies, more species are still flying but not many. A few Cloudless Sulphurs and Gulf Fritillaries are still around, and Common Checkered-skippers have increased the past month. I saw lots of Checkered-skippers at Huie along with Fiery skippers and one late Variegated Fritillary. Vicki DeLoach Woodstock GA _http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/) Subject: late odes and leps From: "gljeinwv AT juno.com" <gljeinwv@juno.com> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:49:22 GMT Any ode at this elevation and latitude in November is noteworthy. So, I was pleased to see a few few Ruby Meadowhawks (sympetrum rubicundulum) this past weekend. A few Clouded Sulphurs (colias philodice) were flying as well. The temps reached into the 60s. Gary Felton - Kingwood, WV (north-central Allegheny Mtns.) ____________________________________________________________ Wholesale Hardwood Floors Never pay retail again. Wholesale prices on all hardwood flooring! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=DpwawlExDhv2F07FDARLsQAAJ1D0ry6jsV46pL4R2H83y6S-AAQAAAAFAAAAAKMXpD4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANlcwAAAAA= Subject: Late season odonates in Early County GA 11/4/2009 From: "Giff Beaton" <giffbeaton AT mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 08:55:04 -0500 Hi again everyone- On Wednesday 11/4 I duplicated the trip that Steve Krotzer and I made into sw GA on 10/8, just seeing what might still be flying with the fairly warm temps we have been having. The day was mostly sunny with highs around 77F. I again started at Kolomoki Mounds State Park, Early Co, GA (KMSP). I checked the lakes, and a stream area below the big dam on Lake Kolomoki. I also went to Williams Bluff Preserve (WBP), the Nature Conservancy property without public access, and the Ophiogomphus site. There are several streams here, a small almost permanent pond good for spreadwings, and a huge almost permanent cypress pond. I had 16 species for the day, as follows: Hetaerina titia (Smoky Rubyspot): 1, KMSP Lestes australis (Southern Spreadwing): about 50 at WBP, mostly in pairs Lestes vidua (Carolina Spreadwing): about 40, numbers way down from last month, and now mostly singles so they do appear to have been ahead of the australis, at least for this site this year. Argia fumipennis fumipennis (Variable Dancer): 5, both sites Argia sedula (Blue-ringed Dancer): 7, KMSP Enallagma cardenium (Purple Bluet, used to be E coecum): just 1 left, WBP Enallagma doubledayi (Atlantic Bluet): about 40, WBP Ischnura hastata (Citrine Forktail): 15, WBP Ischnura kellicotti (Lilypad Forktail): 5, inc two pairs, KMSP Ischnura posita (Fragile Forktail): 2, WBP Anax junius (Common Green Darner), 40+. About half and half males patrolling and pairs in tandem with still some ovipositing. Erythrodiplax minuscula (Little Blue Dragonlet): 8, both sites Miathyria marcella (Hyacinth Glider): 1, KMSP. At a lake with no know hyacinth, a county record. Orthemis ferruginea (Roseate Skimmer): about 12, both sites Pachydiplax longipennis (Blue Dasher): about 15, WBP Tramea carolina (Carolina Saddlebags): about 10, WBP Pretty nice list for this late in the season, but won't be many of these around much longer. Giff Beaton Marietta GA Subject: Re: Fw: Lost Hiker From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:16:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: Fw: Lost Hiker From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:21:45 -0500 Subject: Fw: Lost Hiker From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:47:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Hey all - not relevant to odonata, but urgent enough to share via this list anyway; please pass around to anyone who might be able to help... JSR -----Forwarded Message----- >From: Carol >Sent: Nov 3, 2009 2:29 PM >To: natural-history AT duke.edu >Subject: Lost Hiker > > We lost a hiker who belongs to Triangle Hiking and Outdoor club over >the weekend. He was last heard from Sat out in TN. A missing person >report has been filed. Please be on the lookout for the following: - A >Green Nissan Pickup truck with NC plates (Appalachian Trail specialty >plate with license "TENT") - John is 5'7" 135 pounds and is 46 years >old. He has no known acute medical problems If you come across the >vehicle, please notify the authorities ASAP. Right now, the first >priority is to locate his vehicle, so that we know where to search. >Please forward this message to anyone you know in the eastern TN, >western NC, northern GA, northwestern SC regions. Thank you for your >assistance If someone wants to broadcast onto Twitter or Facebook, >please use this message : "Missing Hiker, 2 days overdue, looking for >GREEN Nissan pickup truck with NC license plate Appalachian State >Specialty plate "TENT", call authorities if you spot the vehicle ASAP" > >Thanks for any help... Carol Ray Subject: Still a few odes around in Northern SC From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:41:50 -0400 Checked a couple ponds near me in the beautiful weather yesterday: Enallagma civile, Familiar Bluet: 23 Ischnura hastata, Citrine Forktail: 1 Ischnura posita, Fragile Forktail: 1 Ischnura ramburii, Rambur's Forktail: 17 Erythemis simplicicollis, Common Pondhawk: 1 Orthemis ferruginea, Roseate Skimmer: 2 Perithemis tenera, Eastern Amberwing: 1 Notes: - both ponds are ordinary retention ponds, and the list reflects that. I haven't visited any of the 'nice' sites near me lately. - the fall burst of familiar bluets and Rambur's forktails is standard fare. - The pondhawk was the first I've seen in a month or so (not that I've been looking much). Pondhawks usually disappear here around 1 October, but this one must have emerged late. - in the last year or two I've seen the occasional Common Green Darner as late as mid-December, so the flying ode season is far from completely over, but I thought the above was still pretty good at this date for about 20 minutes of looking. The local weather has been just spectacularly nice recently. CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm Brevity is the soul of ambiguity. - H. Curl Subject: Hyacinth Glider (Miathyria marcella) in Richmond County, GA From: "croakie1" <croakie AT comcast.net> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:54:49 -0000 Anne Waters and I were birding in the rain this morning (having a pretty good day, too). Finally the rain stopped and the sun came out and it wasn't minutes later that insect activity picked up. One of the very first bugs we saw was what I initially thought was an immature Carolina Saddlebags but then I realized it was a little small and awfully yellow to be that species. It finally lit and sure enough, it was my second (but really first!) choice, a Hyacinth Glider(Miathyria marcella). This is the first one I've seen and a new county record. There were still a few pondhawks around though not many but we did see quite a few Roseate Skimmers (Orthemis ferruginea) around. Lois Stacey North Augusta, SC (Aiken Cnty) Subject: Southwestern GA Odonates on 10/8/2009 From: "Giff Beaton" <giffbeaton AT mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:06:31 -0400 Hi everyone- On Thursday 10/8 Steve Krotzer and I made a brief foray into sw GA and sw AL looking for odonates, and though we didn't find anything rare we did find some fairly late individuals and other interesting things. Among other things, we were looking for Lestes forficula (Rainpool Spreadwing), which has been spreading east from TX for the last couple of years. We did not find any. Here are some of the highlights of the day, which was cool and cloudy to start and then sunny and hot in the afternoon: Kolomoki Mounds State Park, Early Co, GA (before Steve arrived). This park has two nice big lakes, and a stream area below the big dam on Lake Kolomoki, all are pretty good for odonates at times. 14 species, notable: 3 Argia bipunctulata (Seepage Dancer) About 3 weeks later than my previous late dates Williams Bluff Preserve, also Early Co, a Nature Conservancy property without public access, and the site of some intriguing Ophiogomphus we have been working on the last few years. They may end up being O australis (Southern Snaketail) but we don't know for sure yet. There are several streams here, a small almost permanent pond good for spreadwings, and a huge almost permanent cypress pond. We had 20 species here, notable: Over 250 Lestes vidua (Carolina Spreadwing), which is a ridiculous number. We both commented that this is more than we have seen ever, combined. There were a few L australis (Southern Spreadwing) mixed in, but they were mostly fresh and away from the water, which we speculate means they are a bit behind the vidua emergence-wise. 25 Enallagma cardenium (Purple Bluet, used to be E coecum) This is a nice number for the SE away from FL. 50+ Anax junius (Common Green Darner) mostly in tandem with lots of ovipositing. It's late, but not too late for A longipes (Comet Darner), but we didn't see any, which is surprising given the size of this pond and the numbers of junius. We also hit a couple of other ponds looking for spreadwings, finding nothing much, and went over to Chattahoochee State Park in Houston Co AL, right across the border. Here we found lots of common stuff, and a few each of Enallagma signatum and pollutum (Orange and Florida Bluets). We ended up the day with around 30 species, which isn't bad for October. Giff Beaton Marietta GA Subject: Re: Meadowhawk From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 19:19:55 -0700 Alex, We don't know how it got introduced, although larvae (or eggs?) in with aquatic plants for nursery use seems to be much the most likely way. It turns out that the species is all over the Greater Antilles (Cuba, Jamaica, Puerto Rico at least), and it is very likely it was first introduced to one or more of those islands, then spread elsewhere, including into Florida. It's not known to have any effects on the local fauna, not that anyone is really looking carefully at that. But there have been no extinctions or declines in any local odonates. Who knows about local mayflies, etc.? The Florida peninsula is getting filled up with neotropical species coming in under their own power, so there are a lot of changes in the fauna going on at once that may be more significant than the Scarlet Skimmer introduction. Dennis On Oct 8, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Alex Netherton wrote: > How did Scarlet Skimmer get introduced from Asia? Do they cause any > problems, as many introductions do? > Alex Netherton > Asheville, NC > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carolinamountainbirding/ > http://blueridgediscovery.blogspot.com > > > Dennis Paulson wrote: >> >> Hi, Jan. >> >> >> Those yellow dragons are female and/or immature Scarlet Skimmers. >> This is the only introduced (from Asia) species of odonate in North >> America. The males are gorgeous scarlet red. In fact I see you also >> photographed a male. I suppose the reason the yellow ones just >> turned up, is because they are just emerging from somewhere nearby. >> >> Both of your damelflies are Rambur's Forktails, the orange one a >> female. Dragonfly 0012 is a male Metallic Pennant. Dragon blue is a >> male Blue Dasher. Dragon yellow stripes is a young male Band-winged >> Dragonlet. Dragonfly pose is a female Blue Dasher. >> >> There are no meadowhawks in southern Florida (except for the rare >> visitation of migrant Variegated Meadowhawks, usually along the >> Gulf coast in the winter). >> >> Dennis >> >> On Oct 5, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Jan Roxburgh wrote: >> >>> >>> Just had a lot of these yellow dragons turn up to keep the Halloween >>> Pennants and a few others company... female saffronwinged >>> meadowhawk maybe? >>> They look quite amazing when flying around and catching the >>> sunlight... like >>> gleaming gold. This one posed long enough for a photo. Will add to >>> Jan >>> photo album on the group. >>> >> >> ----- >> Dennis Paulson >> 1724 NE 98 St. >> Seattle, WA 98115 >> 206-528-1382 >> dennispaulson AT comcast.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.420 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2417 - Release Date: >> 10/06/09 06:50:00 >> >> ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: [NCOdonates] NC mystery damsel photo From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:10:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Meadowhawk From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:36:34 -0400 Subject: Still a few odes in NE Georgia From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:06:32 -0400 I visited a small marshy area near Hightower Creek, Towns Co., in the "mountains" of NE Georgia on back-to-back days, with different weather conditions each day, and found a little, very little, bit of activity. Oct 6 - mostly overcast, 70F Slender Spreadwing (Lestes rectangularis) 1 Fragile Forktail (Ischnura posita) 1 Shadow Darner (Aeshna umbrosa) 1 Autumn Meadowhawk (Sympetrum vicinum) 1 Oct 7 - sunny, 77F Slender Spreadwing (Lestes rectangularis) 5 Fragile Forktail (Ischnura posita) 4 Shadow Darner (Aeshna umbrosa) 1 Blue-faced Meadowhawk (Sympetrum ambiguum) 7 Autumn Meadowhawk (Sympetrum vicinum) 1 Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://ponddamsel.phanfare.com http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ Subject: NC mystery damsel photo From: "birdranger" <cbockhahn4 AT earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:10:11 -0400 Wake County, NC, any ID help appreciated Thanks! The link to #1 is www.flickr.com/photos/longspur/3691233243 . ALi Subject: Ovipositing CGD; migrants From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:30:19 EDT We observed a Common Green Darner ovipositing up in the N. GA mountains (Towns Co.) on September 25: _http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/3968347693/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/3968347693/) After I took these shots, she flew to the middle of the pond and began ovipositing there, only to be almost immediately taken by a fish or turtle. On that date there were still a number of Swamp Spreadwings at the pond, a few summer odes such as Widow Skimmers, and 4 male Autumn Meadowhawks - which we had not seen there earlier in the season. The only other odes I've seen recently have been Blue-faced Meadowhawks (tandem shot from 9-24 below), Common Green Darners away from water and presumed migrants, a resting Wandering Glider, and one Shadow Darner (ID'd by Glenn Corbiere (thanks!)): _http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/3950822457/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/3950822457/) The Blue-faced Meadowhawks were at their favored wet meadow in our subdivision as recently as 10-3 obelisking on a cool sunny day as nearby butterflies struggled to warm their wings. Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA In a message dated 9/28/2009 11:26:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dennispaulson AT comcast.net writes: Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individulooked differe a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by other dragonflies.ot Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last week's floods. CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu _http://ww2.coastal.http://ww2http://ww_ (http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm) The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 _dennispaulson AT dennispauls_ (mailto:dennispaulson AT comcast.net) Subject: Re: Meadowhawk it was not. Thanks! From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 23:14:22 -0400 Hi Dennis, Thanks a lot for your help! I've now gone and renamed the photos in my album. This is a great way for me to learn them... Trying to figure what is what from the books I have has proved very challenging. Differences can seem quite subtle sometimes. I guess it will get easier with doing it. It is always a thrill to see those red male Scarlet Skimmers here along the canal. :o) Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Paulson To: Jan Roxburgh Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Meadowhawk Hi, Jan. Those yellow dragons are female and/or immature Scarlet Skimmers. This is the only introduced (from Asia) species of odonate in North America. The males are gorgeous scarlet red. In fact I see you also photographed a male. I suppose the reason the yellow ones just turned up, is because they are just emerging from somewhere nearby. Both of your damelflies are Rambur's Forktails, the orange one a female. Dragonfly 0012 is a male Metallic Pennant. Dragon blue is a male Blue Dasher. Dragon yellow stripes is a young male Band-winged Dragonlet. Dragonfly pose is a female Blue Dasher. There are no meadowhawks in southern Florida (except for the rare visitation of migrant Variegated Meadowhawks, usually along the Gulf coast in the winter). Dennis Subject: Re: Meadowhawk From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:07:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: Re: Meadowhawk From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 18:33:41 -0700 Hi, Jan. Those yellow dragons are female and/or immature Scarlet Skimmers. This is the only introduced (from Asia) species of odonate in North America. The males are gorgeous scarlet red. In fact I see you also photographed a male. I suppose the reason the yellow ones just turned up, is because they are just emerging from somewhere nearby. Both of your damelflies are Rambur's Forktails, the orange one a female. Dragonfly 0012 is a male Metallic Pennant. Dragon blue is a male Blue Dasher. Dragon yellow stripes is a young male Band-winged Dragonlet. Dragonfly pose is a female Blue Dasher. There are no meadowhawks in southern Florida (except for the rare visitation of migrant Variegated Meadowhawks, usually along the Gulf coast in the winter). Dennis On Oct 5, 2009, at 8:55 AM, Jan Roxburgh wrote: > Just had a lot of these yellow dragons turn up to keep the Halloween > Pennants and a few others company... female saffronwinged meadowhawk > maybe? > They look quite amazing when flying around and catching the > sunlight... like > gleaming gold. This one posed long enough for a photo. Will add to Jan > photo album on the group. > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: meadowhawk From: Greg Dodge <grdodge AT embarqmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 12:19:24 -0400 First of the season Autumn Meadowhawk on 10/3/09 at NC Museum of Life + Science, Durham, NC, perched on willow leaf in the Wetlands. Greg Dodge Hillsborough, NC www.ncmls.org/learn-about/dodgejournal -------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Meadowhawk From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:55:15 -0400 Just had a lot of these yellow dragons turn up to keep the Halloween Pennants and a few others company... female saffronwinged meadowhawk maybe? They look quite amazing when flying around and catching the sunlight... like gleaming gold. This one posed long enough for a photo. Will add to Jan photo album on the group. Subject: Lynches River County Park, Florence Co., South Carolina From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 16:01:20 -0400 Went camping with friends and family this weekend by the Lynches River. Saw only 5 species of odes: Ebony Jewelwing, Calopteryx maculata - 2 Powdered Dancer, Argia moesta - 2 Fawn Darner, Boyeria vinosa - 6 Russett-tipped Clubtail, Stylurus plagiatus - 3 Georgia River Cruiser, Macromia illinoisensis georgina - 2 But it was a lovely spot and any running-water odes are always a pleasure. The very de luxe nature center had a couple display cases of insects. Of the three dragonflies in the case, two were ordinary, but one was a Neurocordulia (Shadowdragon; I'd need to visit with a book and get a better look to say which). Since two in our party were aquatic invertebrate professionals, we also drug some nets through various parts of the river and found all sorts of cool aquatic bugs, some of which were odes as well. CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm "Most people would rather die than think. In fact, they do so" - Bertrand Russell Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:46:22 -0700 (PDT) OK, your Sympetrum answer makes me happy. As for the Anax, I wasn't actually thinkig of them going as far inland as the Great Basin, just away from the coast - perhaps over the Willamette or Central Valleys or, as I said, pushed up againstl the high mountains.   Mike --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" , TexOdes AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:42 PM I probably didn't make it clear that the corruptum flights are seen only during the rather uncommon situation of easterly winds. Indeed the normal situation is for winds to be from the west-southwest for much of the year, but at times a high-pressure zone will situate itself in the interior and we'll get a northeasterly flow. That's when people see the meadowhawks on the coast. Presumably they're spread all over the landscape at other times. But we don't see any evidence of Anax migration in Washington, and this may be because we're just near enough to the northern edge of its range that there aren't enough of them to show up as a phenomenon. We see no hint of a spring "migration" in either species, just arrival on breeding grounds. I don't know of any accounts of migrating dragonflies anywhere between the Pacific states and the Great Plains except one at Reno, Nevada, with dragonflies heading into the Sierras. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Mike May wrote: Dennis,   If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. corruptum mainly along the coast? --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson  wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes  wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata) .  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs  wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi. net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.. mamomi.net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net .  ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:46:22 -0700 (PDT) OK, your Sympetrum answer makes me happy. As for the Anax, I wasn't actually thinkig of them going as far inland as the Great Basin, just away from the coast - perhaps over the Willamette or Central Valleys or, as I said, pushed up againstl the high mountains.   Mike --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" , TexOdes AT yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:42 PM I probably didn't make it clear that the corruptum flights are seen only during the rather uncommon situation of easterly winds. Indeed the normal situation is for winds to be from the west-southwest for much of the year, but at times a high-pressure zone will situate itself in the interior and we'll get a northeasterly flow. That's when people see the meadowhawks on the coast. Presumably they're spread all over the landscape at other times. But we don't see any evidence of Anax migration in Washington, and this may be because we're just near enough to the northern edge of its range that there aren't enough of them to show up as a phenomenon. We see no hint of a spring "migration" in either species, just arrival on breeding grounds. I don't know of any accounts of migrating dragonflies anywhere between the Pacific states and the Great Plains except one at Reno, Nevada, with dragonflies heading into the Sierras. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Mike May wrote: Dennis,   If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. corruptum mainly along the coast? --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson  wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes  wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata) .  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs  wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi. net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.. mamomi.net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net .  ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:42:31 -0700 I probably didn't make it clear that the corruptum flights are seen only during the rather uncommon situation of easterly winds. Indeed the normal situation is for winds to be from the west-southwest for much of the year, but at times a high-pressure zone will situate itself in the interior and we'll get a northeasterly flow. That's when people see the meadowhawks on the coast. Presumably they're spread all over the landscape at other times. But we don't see any evidence of Anax migration in Washington, and this may be because we're just near enough to the northern edge of its range that there aren't enough of them to show up as a phenomenon. We see no hint of a spring "migration" in either species, just arrival on breeding grounds. I don't know of any accounts of migrating dragonflies anywhere between the Pacific states and the Great Plains except one at Reno, Nevada, with dragonflies heading into the Sierras. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Mike May wrote: > Dennis, > > If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd > expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate > along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, > again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case > away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that > westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, > but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in > late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) > areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my > Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. > corruptum mainly along the coast? > > --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > From: Dennis Paulson > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: "Mike May" > Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" > Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > Mike, > > It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant > of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every > fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, > from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I > don't know why there are no such reports from California, but > perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly > plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These > accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/ > minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds > that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. > > Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught > by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with > Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally > settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were > having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs > with dragonflies in them. > > I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington > mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they > were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not > associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's > very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably > strongly affected by weather patterns. > > Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, > except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green > darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this > region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in > northern and central California during the fall, surely in > southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San > Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm > encouraging them to get them published. > > Dennis > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: > >> >> There are actually many records of migration away from coastal >> areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen >> with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the >> Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast >> numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large >> movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that >> matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains >> or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common >> spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because >> prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward >> until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays >> out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis? >> >> Mike May >> >> --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes wrote: >> >> From: Bruce Grimes >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC >> To: "Marion Dobbs" >> Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com >> Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM >> >> >> >> Marion, >> A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near >> mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's. >> In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with >> approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the >> entire time. Since that time, he began noting the migration of >> dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's >> field guide became available were most species identified. >> In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented >> lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and >> Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, >> and butterflies also migrating. >> The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there >> is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with >> another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) >> of us. This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying >> insects, and more time for ID. >> I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs >> away from the coasts. We get the spring migrants too on our area, >> with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common >> Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted >> (Libellula semifasciata) . Painted has also been seen (identified >> once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. >> Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely >> limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded >> only a few Green Darners.. We later heard from an occasional >> participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to >> the south and below the ridge line. >> Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. >> pulchella). This is in our top 4 migrants at our site. Maximum >> probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. >> Bruce Grimes >> >> --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: >> >> From: Marion Dobbs >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC >> To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com >> Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" >> >> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM >> >> >> >> PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal >> migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the >> coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these >> not the common pathways? >> >> Marion Dobbs >> Rome (Floyd Co.) GA >> spreadwing AT mac.com >> pond_damsel AT comcast.net >> http://www.mamomi. net >> http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel >> http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ >> >> "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one >> another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be >> heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. >> >> >> Marion Dobbs >> Rome (Floyd Co.) GA >> spreadwing AT mac.com >> pond_damsel AT comcast.net >> http://www.. mamomi.net >> http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel >> http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ >> >> "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the >> expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki >> >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: >> >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are >>> the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding >>> in this species extends at least as far north as the northern >>> Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking >>> maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers >>> in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far >>> north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to >>> put together that story from all the observers we have in the >>> field now. >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: >>> >>>> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to >>>> scoot >>>> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >>>> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an >>>> hour >>>> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging >>>> (well, a >>>> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >>>> couple Carolina Bays. >>>> >>>> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >>>> boggy >>>> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >>>> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted >>>> Skimmers. >>>> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >>>> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >>>> documentation. >>>> >>>> I failed. >>>> >>>> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >>>> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle >>>> deep, >>>> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >>>> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >>>> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't >>>> know, a >>>> quarter as many? >>>> >>>> The list, combined across the two dates: >>>> >>>> Swamp Spreadwings >>>> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few >>>> females >>>> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >>>> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >>>> Common Pondhawk, a couple >>>> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >>>> Golden-winged Skimmer >>>> Bar-winged Skimmer >>>> Painted Skimmer >>>> Blue Dasher >>>> Wandering Glider >>>> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >>>> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >>>> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >>>> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >>>> enough >>>> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple >>>> tandem >>>> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units >>>> were >>>> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so >>>> qualitatively it >>>> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als- >>>> harassing- >>>> a-pair type scenario. >>>> >>>> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the >>>> usual >>>> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >>>> other dragonflies. .. >>>> >>>> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through >>>> last >>>> week's floods. >>>> >>>> CH >>>> >>>> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* >>>> ********* ****** >>>> Christopher E. Hill >>>> Biology Department >>>> Coastal Carolina University >>>> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >>>> chill AT coastal.edu >>>> http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm >>>> >>>> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >>>> always >>>> so >>>> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >>>> - Bertrand Russell >>>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Dennis Paulson >>> 1724 NE 98 St. >>> Seattle, WA 98115 >>> 206-528-1382 >>> dennispaulson AT comcast.net >>> >>> >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:42:31 -0700 I probably didn't make it clear that the corruptum flights are seen only during the rather uncommon situation of easterly winds. Indeed the normal situation is for winds to be from the west-southwest for much of the year, but at times a high-pressure zone will situate itself in the interior and we'll get a northeasterly flow. That's when people see the meadowhawks on the coast. Presumably they're spread all over the landscape at other times. But we don't see any evidence of Anax migration in Washington, and this may be because we're just near enough to the northern edge of its range that there aren't enough of them to show up as a phenomenon. We see no hint of a spring "migration" in either species, just arrival on breeding grounds. I don't know of any accounts of migrating dragonflies anywhere between the Pacific states and the Great Plains except one at Reno, Nevada, with dragonflies heading into the Sierras. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Mike May wrote: > Dennis, > > If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd > expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate > along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, > again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case > away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that > westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, > but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in > late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) > areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my > Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. > corruptum mainly along the coast? > > --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > From: Dennis Paulson > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: "Mike May" > Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" > Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > Mike, > > It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant > of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every > fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, > from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I > don't know why there are no such reports from California, but > perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly > plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These > accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/ > minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds > that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. > > Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught > by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with > Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally > settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were > having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs > with dragonflies in them. > > I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington > mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they > were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not > associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's > very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably > strongly affected by weather patterns. > > Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, > except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green > darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this > region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in > northern and central California during the fall, surely in > southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San > Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm > encouraging them to get them published. > > Dennis > > On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: > >> >> There are actually many records of migration away from coastal >> areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen >> with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the >> Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast >> numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large >> movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that >> matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains >> or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common >> spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because >> prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward >> until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays >> out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis? >> >> Mike May >> >> --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes wrote: >> >> From: Bruce Grimes >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC >> To: "Marion Dobbs" >> Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com >> Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM >> >> >> >> Marion, >> A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near >> mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's. >> In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with >> approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the >> entire time. Since that time, he began noting the migration of >> dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's >> field guide became available were most species identified. >> In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented >> lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and >> Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, >> and butterflies also migrating. >> The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there >> is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with >> another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) >> of us. This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying >> insects, and more time for ID. >> I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs >> away from the coasts. We get the spring migrants too on our area, >> with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common >> Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted >> (Libellula semifasciata) . Painted has also been seen (identified >> once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. >> Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely >> limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded >> only a few Green Darners.. We later heard from an occasional >> participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to >> the south and below the ridge line. >> Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. >> pulchella). This is in our top 4 migrants at our site. Maximum >> probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. >> Bruce Grimes >> >> --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: >> >> From: Marion Dobbs >> Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC >> To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com >> Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" >> >> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM >> >> >> >> PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal >> migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the >> coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these >> not the common pathways? >> >> Marion Dobbs >> Rome (Floyd Co.) GA >> spreadwing AT mac.com >> pond_damsel AT comcast.net >> http://www.mamomi. net >> http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel >> http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ >> >> "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one >> another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be >> heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. >> >> >> Marion Dobbs >> Rome (Floyd Co.) GA >> spreadwing AT mac.com >> pond_damsel AT comcast.net >> http://www.. mamomi.net >> http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel >> http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ >> >> "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the >> expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki >> >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: >> >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are >>> the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding >>> in this species extends at least as far north as the northern >>> Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking >>> maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers >>> in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far >>> north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to >>> put together that story from all the observers we have in the >>> field now. >>> >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: >>> >>>> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to >>>> scoot >>>> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >>>> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an >>>> hour >>>> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging >>>> (well, a >>>> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >>>> couple Carolina Bays. >>>> >>>> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >>>> boggy >>>> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >>>> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted >>>> Skimmers. >>>> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >>>> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >>>> documentation. >>>> >>>> I failed. >>>> >>>> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >>>> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle >>>> deep, >>>> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >>>> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >>>> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't >>>> know, a >>>> quarter as many? >>>> >>>> The list, combined across the two dates: >>>> >>>> Swamp Spreadwings >>>> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few >>>> females >>>> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >>>> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >>>> Common Pondhawk, a couple >>>> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >>>> Golden-winged Skimmer >>>> Bar-winged Skimmer >>>> Painted Skimmer >>>> Blue Dasher >>>> Wandering Glider >>>> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >>>> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >>>> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >>>> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >>>> enough >>>> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple >>>> tandem >>>> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units >>>> were >>>> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so >>>> qualitatively it >>>> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als- >>>> harassing- >>>> a-pair type scenario. >>>> >>>> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the >>>> usual >>>> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >>>> other dragonflies. .. >>>> >>>> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through >>>> last >>>> week's floods. >>>> >>>> CH >>>> >>>> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* >>>> ********* ****** >>>> Christopher E. Hill >>>> Biology Department >>>> Coastal Carolina University >>>> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >>>> chill AT coastal.edu >>>> http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm >>>> >>>> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >>>> always >>>> so >>>> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >>>> - Bertrand Russell >>>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Dennis Paulson >>> 1724 NE 98 St. >>> Seattle, WA 98115 >>> 206-528-1382 >>> dennispaulson AT comcast.net >>> >>> >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:31:57 -0400 Thank you, Bruce, et al. This has been a fascinating and informative thread. I had no idea how very little I know about dragonfly migration and how much more I'd like to know. It all makes me want to go out and watch the skies. Of course, that, like exuviae collection, would entail a large time commitment, as Mike points out. Observation of dragonfly movements I'm sure are sporadic at best, and it's certainly understandable why regular sightings occur at hawk watches and sites frequented by birders on a regular basis. I'm very glad to know what to watch for and when and will certainly be paying closer attention and taking better notes in future. Thanks to Dennis and Mike and Bruce and everyone else for pointing out how the observations of us ordinary oders can contribute in some way to our broader knowledge of odonata and, by extension, the greater natural world. Marion Dobbs On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:05 AM, Bruce Grimes wrote: > Marion, > A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp > 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's. In > 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx > 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire > time. Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies > at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide > became available were most species identified. > In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots > of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) > migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and > butterflies also migrating. > The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is > a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with > another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of > us. This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying > insects, and more time for ID. > I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away > from the coasts. We get the spring migrants too on our area, with > sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green > Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula > semifasciata). Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall > migration at the Rocky Knob site. > Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely > limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded > only a few Green Darners.. We later heard from an occasional > participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the > south and below the ridge line. > Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. > pulchella). This is in our top 4 migrants at our site. Maximum > probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. > Bruce Grimes > > --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: > > > > > > > > Marion Dobbs 9 Bridlewood Lane Rome GA 30165 ecurlew AT mac.com http://www.mamomi.net http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ http://ponddamsel.phanfare.com/ "The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena...who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." _Theodore Roosevelt, 23 Apr 1910. Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Dennis,   If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. corruptum mainly along the coast? --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes  wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata) .  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs  wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi. net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.. mamomi.net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net .  ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Dennis,   If my understanding of what happens in the East is correct, I'd expect western Anax to migrate inland, perhaps even to accumulate along the western face of the Cascades and Sierras. That assumes, again, that prevailing winds are from the west, i.e., in your case away from the coast. My only reason for that assumption is that westerly flow is the rule in mid-latitudes worldwide and year-round, but I don't know if conditions peculiar to the Pacific states in late summer, e.g., high pressure ridges inland over hot (desert?) areas, would cause a substantial deviation from that pattern. If my Anax scenario is correct, though, the question becomes, why are S. corruptum mainly along the coast? --- On Wed, 9/30/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Mike May" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 12:30 PM Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes  wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata) .  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs  wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogro ups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi. net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.. mamomi.net http://albums. phanfare. com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs. smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net .  ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:30:55 -0700 Mike, It plays out pretty much the same on the Pacific coast. Our migrant of note is the Variegated Meadowhawk, Sympetrum corruptum, and every fall numbers of them accumulate on some days on the Pacific coast, from southwestern Washington south to central Oregon at least. I don't know why there are no such reports from California, but perhaps they're being seen and not reported. There are certainly plenty of birders on the coast there during the fall. These accumulations in Oregon (sometimes vast numbers, with 50-100 or more/minute passing a coastal site) usually occur during easterly winds that presumably push migrating dragonflies out to the coast. Many years ago I identified stomach contents from coho salmon caught by fishermen off the Oregon coast, and they were all filled with Sympetrum corruptum! Presumably they had blown offshore and finally settled on the water, unable to get back to land. The salmon were having a field day, although I know I was only given the stomachs with dragonflies in them. I have seen Variegated Meadowhawks also in numbers in the Washington mountains in fall while hiking. These were surely migrants, as they were all immatures and more or less blanketed the landscape, not associated with water. Some of them were in southbound flight. It's very episodic, though, not a dependable occurrence and presumably strongly affected by weather patterns. Oddly, we don't have such coastal observations for Anax junius, except occasional sightings. Perhaps the simple reason is that green darners are nowhere nearly as common as the meadowhawks in this region. But I and others have seen great numbers of the darners in northern and central California during the fall, surely in southbound migration. Bird people on the Farallons, off San Francisco, have been keeping records of odonates for years, and I'm encouraging them to get them published. Dennis On Sep 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mike May wrote: > > There are actually many records of migration away from coastal > areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen > with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the > Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast > numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large > movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that > matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or > shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common > spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because > prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward > until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays > out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis? > > Mike May > > --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes wrote: > > From: Bruce Grimes > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: "Marion Dobbs" > Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM > > > > Marion, > A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp > 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's. In > 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx > 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire > time. Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies > at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide > became available were most species identified. > In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots > of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) > migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and > butterflies also migrating. > The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is > a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with > another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of > us. This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying > insects, and more time for ID. > I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away > from the coasts. We get the spring migrants too on our area, with > sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green > Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula > semifasciata). Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall > migration at the Rocky Knob site. > Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely > limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded > only a few Green Darners.. We later heard from an occasional > participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the > south and below the ridge line. > Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. > pulchella). This is in our top 4 migrants at our site. Maximum > probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. > Bruce Grimes > > --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: > > From: Marion Dobbs > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com > Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" > > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM > > > > PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal > migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the > coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these > not the common pathways? > > Marion Dobbs > Rome (Floyd Co.) GA > spreadwing AT mac.com > pond_damsel AT comcast.net > http://www.mamomi.net > http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel > http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ > > "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one > another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be > heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. > > > Marion Dobbs > Rome (Floyd Co.) GA > spreadwing AT mac.com > pond_damsel AT comcast.net > http://www..mamomi.net > http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel > http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ > > "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the > expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki > > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > >> >> Chris, >> >> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the >> ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in >> this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal >> Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it >> was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south >> Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that >> behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together >> that story from all the observers we have in the field now. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: >> >>> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to >>> scoot >>> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >>> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour >>> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging >>> (well, a >>> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >>> couple Carolina Bays. >>> >>> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >>> boggy >>> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >>> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted >>> Skimmers. >>> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >>> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >>> documentation. >>> >>> I failed. >>> >>> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >>> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle >>> deep, >>> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >>> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >>> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't >>> know, a >>> quarter as many? >>> >>> The list, combined across the two dates: >>> >>> Swamp Spreadwings >>> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few >>> females >>> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >>> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >>> Common Pondhawk, a couple >>> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >>> Golden-winged Skimmer >>> Bar-winged Skimmer >>> Painted Skimmer >>> Blue Dasher >>> Wandering Glider >>> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >>> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >>> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >>> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >>> enough >>> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple >>> tandem >>> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were >>> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively >>> it >>> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als- >>> harassing- >>> a-pair type scenario. >>> >>> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual >>> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >>> other dragonflies. .. >>> >>> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through >>> last >>> week's floods. >>> >>> CH >>> >>> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* >>> ********* ****** >>> Christopher E. Hill >>> Biology Department >>> Coastal Carolina University >>> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >>> chill AT coastal.edu >>> http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm >>> >>> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >>> always >>> so >>> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >>> - Bertrand Russell >>> >> >> ----- >> Dennis Paulson >> 1724 NE 98 St. >> Seattle, WA 98115 >> 206-528-1382 >> dennispaulson AT comcast.net >> >> > > . > > > > > > > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:41:18 -0700 (PDT) There are actually many records of migration away from coastal areas. For example, substantial movements of Green Darners are seen with some regularity at Hawk Mt. in PA and at hawk watches in the Watchung "mts." in NJ. Also there are regular accumulations of vast numbers at. e.g., Pt. Pelee on Lake Erie and sometimes quite large movements around Lake Superior and down Lake Michigan. For that matter, swarms are sometimes seen well away from either mountains or shorelines. I do think coastal migrations are the most common spectacular movements observed, but my guess is that's because prevailing westerly winds tend to cause migrants to drift eastward until they reach large expanses of water. Don't know how that plays out on the Pacific coast, though. Dennis?   Mike May --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Bruce Grimes wrote: From: Bruce Grimes Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Marion Dobbs" Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:05 AM Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata).  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners..  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www..mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/   "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net . Subject: Re: Anax junius spring emergence From: Steve Hummel <shummel AT iowatelecom.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:30:31 -0500 Hi all, My observations in Iowa has been that Anax junius (CGDarner) has been by far the earliest odonate to appear in the spring, are fully mature, and often there are males and females flying in tandem, mating, and oviposition is taking place. I've attached a photo taken on April 11, 2006 in northern Iowa. Snow trilliums were blooming and the pond still had some patches of ice. Steve Hummel shummel AT iowatelecom.net On Sep 29, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: But to add to Hal's account, there is little doubt that the vast majority of early spring records of Common Green Darners in the northern part of its range are incoming migrants. The first seen are almost always mature males. Females are surely coming in, but they're harder to detect than males because they're not cruising over the water. They may not arrive as early in Washington state (earliest date ever 22 April, not until May in most years) as they do in the Northeast (commonly reported in April, but perhaps because there are more observers watching), but the first seen are always mature males. The first Anax exuviae I have found in this state usually appear some time after the first adults are seen, and large-scale emergence is mostly seen in August. On Sep 29, 2009, at 7:41 AM, Hal White wrote: > Josh, > > Rudy Raff and I reported finding Anax junius exuviae in central PA in > late March 1964(?) I believe. > Harold B. White, III and Rudolf A. Raff, "Early Spring Emergence of > Anax > junius (Odonata: Aeschnidae) in Central Pennsylvania," Can. Ent. 102, > 498-499 (1970). > Philip Corbet and I had several conversations and correspondence > over whether or not this was a believable observation. He found it! > hard to > accept. However I argued that exuviae left over from late fall could > not > survive in situ over a PA winter. > > Hal > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Anax junius spring emergence From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:35:31 -0700 But to add to Hal's account, there is little doubt that the vast majority of early spring records of Common Green Darners in the northern part of its range are incoming migrants. The first seen are almost always mature males. Females are surely coming in, but they're harder to detect than males because they're not cruising over the water. They may not arrive as early in Washington state (earliest date ever 22 April, not until May in most years) as they do in the Northeast (commonly reported in April, but perhaps because there are more observers watching), but the first seen are always mature males. The first Anax exuviae I have found in this state usually appear some time after the first adults are seen, and large-scale emergence is mostly seen in August. On Sep 29, 2009, at 7:41 AM, Hal White wrote: > Josh, > > Rudy Raff and I reported finding Anax junius exuviae in central PA in > late March 1964(?) I believe. > Harold B. White, III and Rudolf A. Raff, "Early Spring Emergence of > Anax > junius (Odonata: Aeschnidae) in Central Pennsylvania," Can. Ent. 102, > 498-499 (1970). > Philip Corbet and I had several conversations and correspondence over > whether or not this was a believable observation. He found it hard to > accept. However I argued that exuviae left over from late fall could > not > survive in situ over a PA winter. > > Hal > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Anax junius spring emergence From: Hal White <halwhite AT udel.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:41:28 -0400 Josh, Rudy Raff and I reported finding Anax junius exuviae in central PA in late March 1964(?) I believe. Harold B. White, III and Rudolf A. Raff, "Early Spring Emergence of Anax junius (Odonata: Aeschnidae) in Central Pennsylvania," Can. Ent. 102, 498-499 (1970). Philip Corbet and I had several conversations and correspondence over whether or not this was a believable observation. He found it hard to accept. However I argued that exuviae left over from late fall could not survive in situ over a PA winter. Hal opihi AT mindspring.com wrote: > > > One question I may have asked before, but forget the answer. Common > Green Darners are frequently the first, or one of the first, dragonflies > observed in the spring in several mid-Atlantic states. Are these first > sightings of spring returning migrants? Or are they larvae that just > missed the cutoff for migrating south, so overwintered in the final > instar, and emerged as soon as the weather was tolerable in the spring? > > Josh Rose > Amherst MA > > > > > Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:25:42 -0400 Hi Dennis, Encouraged by your post, I have added just a few fairly recent photos to the Jan album on the group. Please forgive that they are not named. I'm not yet confident about connecting what I have with what is in my two books. Looks like a female, immature? yellow-legged meadowhawk in amongst them, but I could be completely wrong. If it turns out that I ever stumble upon some rarity in the USA, I will at least have the date and time of day recorded in the photo metadata. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Paulson To: jani Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonfly parasites? Jan, >>> You live in an area with no resident odonatologists, although various of us visit there from time to time. It's an area where tropical dragonflies are moving in from the West Indies, so I encourage you to photograph as many kinds of dragonflies as you see! Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:32 AM, jani wrote: Hi, I'm a new member living in Miami, FL. My husband and I have become keen dragonfly photographers over the past year. We planted a hedge of Ixora, and discovered that attracts quite a few dragonflies to our garden, which is nice and convenient, since wandering around looking all over the place for them in the intense heat and humidity isn't as much fun. I just created an album here named Jan Roxburgh which has a couple of photos of a dragonfly that has two insects attached to its back. When enlarging the photos, we could see that they have legs, probably wings, and are attached by their mouths. Anyone know what those critters are, and whether they harm the dragonflies? I did research online, but didn't come up with much. We thought maybe a gnat? Thanks. Jan ----- Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Bruce Grimes <blue_corporal AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Marion, A friend of mine began a migration watch site at Rocky Knob (near mp 168 on the Blue Ridge Parkway, Floyd Co, VA) back in the 80's.  In 1992, he arrived at the site and sat for several hours with approx 200 Green Darners (Anax junius) per minute flying by the entire time.  Since that time, he began noting the migration of dragonflies at the site, though not until resources like Dunkle's field guide became available were most species identified. In recent years, with only limited coverage, we have documented lots of dragonfly species (14, plus 2 to genus: Sympetrum and Aeshna) migrating, while keeping an eye out for hawks, other birds, and butterflies also migrating. The site is unusual for Blue Ridge hawk watch sites in that there is a large open upward-sloping field in front of where we sit, with another 100 yds or so (fairly level) to the forest behind (south) of us.  This gives a much better opportunity to observe the flying insects, and more time for ID. I guess this is a long way of saying dragonfly migration occurs away from the coasts.  We get the spring migrants too on our area, with sudden spring occurrence of various species especially Common Green Darner, but King Skimmers as well, including Painted (Libellula semifasciata).  Painted has also been seen (identified once) in fall migration at the Rocky Knob site. Due to various issues and weather, coverage has been extremely limited this year, but on a very windy day at the site, we recorded only a few Green Darners.  We later heard from an occasional participant that he had many hundreds by his house in Ararat, to the south and below the ridge line. Some speculation earlier about the migration of Twelve-spotted (L. pulchella).  This is in our top 4 migrants at our site.  Maximum probably only in the 30's per day, but very regular in appearance. Bruce Grimes --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Marion Dobbs wrote: From: Marion Dobbs Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Cc: "Dennis Paulson" , "Chris Hill" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 12:22 PM PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion DobbsRome (Floyd Co.) GAspreadwing AT mac.compond_damsel AT comcast..nethttp://www.mamomi.nethttp://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamselhttp://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion DobbsRome (Floyd Co.) GAspreadwing AT mac.compond_damsel AT comcast..nethttp://www.mamomi.nethttp://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamselhttp://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote:   Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell -----Dennis Paulson1724 NE 98 St.Seattle, WA 98115206-528-1382dennispaulson AT comcast.net . Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:48:35 -0400 Hi Josh, Thanks for the info. We have been to Fairchild Gardens a few times but probably were too focused on being with guests and watching the iguanas, to notice that there were so many dragonflies. We will be much more observant there in future. We have better cameras now too. Will look into Fakahatchee Strand and Loxahatchee... What we noticed about Shark Valley was the dragons seemed really settled. Probably helps that they don't have to contend with regular lawn mowing operations like what happens in the common areas near our house. We've noticed "our" dragons are especially upset when their perching grasses are trimmed off along the edge of the canal. BTW, we get a mind-boggling number of I think it is Halloween Pennants perching on the grasses just yards from our home if the city does leave the grass trimming for awhile. Incredibly beautiful when the sunlight reflects of all those wings. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: opihi AT mindspring.com To: Jan Roxburgh ; se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonfly parasites? When I was doing my dissertation field work in Florida, I had pretty good luck photographing dragons at Fairchild Tropical Gardens in Coral Gables, just south of Miami. I forget how many species I had - 15, maybe 20 - but the list included critters like Three-striped Dasher (Micrathyria didyma) and Caribbean Yellowface (Neoerythromma cultellatum). I know some of the *really* exciting tropical odonates in FL were found in the Fakahatchee Strand. I found a good variety of species there but nothing Earth-shattering, but only visited once, really wish I had the chance to go back a few more times... Loxahatchee NWR had fair diversity and absolutely astounding biomass. I was there once, I think in June, when Four-spotted Pennants (Brachymesia gravida) were emerging in numbers that officially boggled my mind. Seemed like there was one on every fifth blade of sawgrass, and Loxahatchee has a LOT of sawgrass! Have fun, Josh -----Original Message----- From: Jan Roxburgh <2jani AT comcast.net> Thank you for the encouragement to photograph as many dragonflies as we see. I had read about the tropicals coming here to South Florida. (It's swelteringly hot enough I am sure!) We are just starting out now with identifying what we photograph. Bought two books to help.. Stokes "Beginner's Guide to Dragonflies", and "Dragonflies and Damselflies of Georgia and the SouthEast," by Beaton. If there is a simple wish-list here on the group, we can be on the look-out for them in Miami. My husband uses a nice macro lens, so he can get up close and personal with them, and capture wonderful detail. I can't get as close with mine. We have found that Shark Valley in the Everglades can be a great place to photograph dragons. Jan Subject: Re: Fwd: [TexOdes] Fw: [texbirds] FW: Dragonfly takes down a hummingbird From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:32:26 -0400 Youtube video of dragonflies and hummingbird at feeders . The argument looks very territorial to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxRjm_JD8QM Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Paulson To: Odonata-l ; se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata ; NE Odes ; gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:05 PM Subject: [se-odonata] Fwd: [TexOdes] Fw: [texbirds] FW: Dragonfly takes down a hummingbird I thought this was interesting enough to warrant further distribution. There is at least one published record of an Anax junius capturing a Ruby-throated Hummingbird. Hofslund, P. B. 1977. Dragonfly attacks and kills a ruby-throated hummingbird. Loon 49: 238. Begin forwarded message: From: "Mitch" Date: September 28, 2009 1:52:26 PM PDT To: Subject: [TexOdes] Fw: [texbirds] FW: Dragonfly takes down a hummingbird Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:18:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:15:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: "SL Brown" <ictinia AT gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:40:12 -0400 Dennis wrote: There were enough tandem pairs in the huge swarm of CG Darners I saw on Sept. 30, 2007 to have been noteworthy. That flight was over the dunes directly adjacent to beach, by the way - which is as coastal as it gets. I've lost track of time (sadly, this is my busiest season, work-wise) - it's time to spend some time at beach, looking . . . interestingly (should this be peak CG Darner migration time in my area - in case that wasn't just a one-time fluke), peak Merlin migration down the beach in my area is typically around the first week of October, and I have quite often seen Merlins, particularly immature birds, fueling their migration flights with dragonflies. Sharon L. Brown http://SLBrownPhoto.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- "I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in tune once more." John Burroughs Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:56:38 -0700 I should add one more thing to this. I believe that tandem pairs have been seen among the groups of individuals apparently in southbound migration, and this is pretty good circumstantial evidence of breeding along the way. But it doesn't furnish any evidence that the same two dragonflies (probably not still in tandem) would continue south and then hook up for another one-day stand somewhere farther on. They probably do, but evidence for this won't be easy to acquire. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Mike May wrote: > Well, I jumped in before I read Dennis' more complete reply. I'll > just add that there is no evidence, based mostly on John Matthews' > extensive work, but also that of Joanna Freeland that there's any > genetic difference between migrants and residents. It's probably a > result of some behavioral switch, as Dennis described. Also, I > wouldn't say there isn't any evidence that Anax breed on the way > south, but I do admit that isn't tied down by nearly enough direct > observation. > > Mike > > --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > From: Dennis Paulson > Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC > To: "Chris Hill" > Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 1:03 PM > > > > Chris, > > You're right that there are migrants and residents in the North and > how they differ. They are not genetically different, as far as I > recall, which surprised people when the research was done. But more > likely there is a genetic progamming in these populations that > provides them with the ability to emerge if they are ready to do so > in late summer and then migrate south but to overwinter as larvae if > they don't reach last instar in time to emerge. Those overwintering > ones then emerge the next spring, breed and die. Presumably if one > of them had a very fast-growing larva, it might emerge early enough > to migrate south, but I don't think that is known. More likely they > would not reach that stage and would overwinter, carrying on the > "resident" population. Do the ones that arrive from the south in > spring have larvae that take long enough so that some might > overwinter? An interesting question is "how likely is it that a > resident type can become a migrant or vice versa?" John Matthews > studied the species extensively, and I believe his research showed > that it was quite likely, as he raised eggs from the same female > under different photoperiod regimes and found that photoperiod > influenced developmental rate of the larvae and could turn them, > essentially, into spring-emerging or fall-emerging larvae. Some of > John's work is summarized in this reference: > > May, M. L., and J. H. Matthews. 2008. Migration in Odonata: a case > study of Anax junius. In Dragonflies & Damselflies, Model Organisms > for Ecological and Evolutionary Research, ed. A. Córdoba-Aguilar. > Oxford University Press. > > > The situation is more or less reversed in the southern part of the > range, but with even less information. In southern Florida, most > Anax junius in the spring are immature, presumably recently emerged > from larvae that overwintered and likely to be heading north. There > is somewhat of a hiatus in summer, not many of them (but there are > some). Then in the fall there are great numbers of mature adults > breeding all over the place, presumably those individuals seen > migrating south along the Atlantic coast in previous months. But > there are also breeding records in spring, so perhaps there is a > resident population all the way down there as well. The situation in > Mexico and the West Indies is even less well understood. How late in > the winter do they breed at those latitudes? Are there any resident > populations? > > Then what happens at mid latitudes such as the Carolinas and a bit > farther north? Even more poorly known, I would say. Again, I think > John Matthews was trying to answer these questions. The May and > Matthews paper stated the belief that Common Green Darners were > breeding as they headed south in the fall, with the assumption that > individual dragonflies would breed somewhere, then continue farther > south and breed again, perhaps multiple times. I don't think there > is any evidence for this, and it would be good to know if this was > indeed the case. Are those darners you saw, Chris, on their way to > Florida or Cuba after their brief stop in South Carolina? > > Dennis > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > >> OK, just to get this straight, there are supposed to be (in >> northern areas) two life cycles, migrants and residents, right? >> And the migrants arrive early in the spring, lay, and then emerge >> in the fall and head south. And the residents overwinter as >> larvae, emerge and breed locally, and their offspring then again >> overwinter and emerge the next year. And genetic studies have >> shown differences between migrants and locals, so they are distinct >> in any one area. Is that right? Migrants would then be >> multivoltine, residents univoltine? >> >> And the reason September oviposition is of interest is that it's >> too late for the locals? >> >> Sorry if I've hopelessly confused the situation - just trying to >> get the basics down so I can follow the discussion. >> >> I think I remember this as a usual late summer - September thing - >> I start seeing more CGDs at the ponds I frequent, and they are >> often breeding/ovipositing. I see occasional individuals around as >> late as December, but I don't see enough of them to know what >> they're doing then. And I should take more consistent notes on >> behavior, but I ususally don't. >> >> Chris >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: >> >>> Chris, >>> >>> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are >>> the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding >>> in this species extends at least as far north as the northern >>> Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking >>> maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers >>> in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far >>> north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to >>> put together that story from all the observers we have in the >>> field now. >>> >>> Dennis >>> >> >> ************************************************************************ >> Christopher E. Hill >> Biology Department >> Coastal Carolina University >> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >> chill AT coastal.edu >> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >> >> "It's better to be wrong than vague." - Freeman Dyson >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > > > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Well, I jumped in before I read Dennis' more complete reply. I'll just add that there is no evidence, based mostly on John Matthews' extensive work, but also that of Joanna Freeland that there's any genetic difference between migrants and residents. It's probably a result of some behavioral switch, as Dennis described. Also, I wouldn't say there isn't any evidence that Anax breed on the way south, but I do admit that isn't tied down by nearly enough direct observation.   Mike --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 1:03 PM Chris, You're right that there are migrants and residents in the North and how they differ. They are not genetically different, as far as I recall, which surprised people when the research was done. But more likely there is a genetic progamming in these populations that provides them with the ability to emerge if they are ready to do so in late summer and then migrate south but to overwinter as larvae if they don't reach last instar in time to emerge. Those overwintering ones then emerge the next spring, breed and die. Presumably if one of them had a very fast-growing larva, it might emerge early enough to migrate south, but I don't think that is known. More likely they would not reach that stage and would overwinter, carrying on the "resident" population. Do the ones that arrive from the south in spring have larvae that take long enough so that some might overwinter? An interesting question is "how likely is it that a resident type can become a migrant or vice versa?" John Matthews studied the species extensively, and I believe his research showed that it was quite likely, as he raised eggs from the same female under different photoperiod regimes and found that photoperiod influenced developmental rate of the larvae and could turn them, essentially, into spring-emerging or fall-emerging larvae. Some of John's work is summarized in this reference: May, M. L., and J. H. Matthews. 2008. Migration in Odonata: a case study of Anax junius. In Dragonflies & Damselflies, Model Organisms for Ecological and Evolutionary Research, ed. A. Córdoba-Aguilar. Oxford University Press. The situation is more or less reversed in the southern part of the range, but with even less information. In southern Florida, most Anax junius in the spring are immature, presumably recently emerged from larvae that overwintered and likely to be heading north. There is somewhat of a hiatus in summer, not many of them (but there are some). Then in the fall there are great numbers of mature adults breeding all over the place, presumably those individuals seen migrating south along the Atlantic coast in previous months. But there are also breeding records in spring, so perhaps there is a resident population all the way down there as well. The situation in Mexico and the West Indies is even less well understood. How late in the winter do they breed at those latitudes? Are there any resident populations? Then what happens at mid latitudes such as the Carolinas and a bit farther north? Even more poorly known, I would say. Again, I think John Matthews was trying to answer these questions. The May and Matthews paper stated the belief that Common Green Darners were breeding as they headed south in the fall, with the assumption that individual dragonflies would breed somewhere, then continue farther south and breed again, perhaps multiple times. I don't think there is any evidence for this, and it would be good to know if this was indeed the case. Are those darners you saw, Chris, on their way to Florida or Cuba after their brief stop in South Carolina? Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Chris Hill wrote: OK, just to get this straight, there are supposed to be (in northern areas) two life cycles, migrants and residents, right?  And the migrants arrive early in the spring, lay, and then emerge in the fall and head south.  And the residents overwinter as larvae, emerge and breed locally, and their offspring then again overwinter and emerge the next year.  And genetic studies have shown differences between migrants and locals, so they are distinct in any one area.  Is that right?  Migrants would then be multivoltine, residents univoltine? And the reason September oviposition is of interest is that it's too late for the locals? Sorry if I've hopelessly confused the situation - just trying to get the basics down so I can follow the discussion. I think I remember this as a usual late summer - September thing - I start seeing more CGDs at the ponds I frequent, and they are often breeding/ovipositing.  I see occasional individuals around as late as December, but I don't see enough of them to know what they're doing then.  And I should take more consistent notes on behavior, but I ususally don't. Chris On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm "It's better to be wrong than vague."  - Freeman Dyson ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:20:49 -0700 (PDT) John Matthews observed fall oviposition in Anax junius as far north as Virginia, and I've certainly seen tandem pairs in NJ well into October. We think they will begin ovipositing as soon as they are sexually mature, which seems to occur during, not after, migration. In fact, we suspect they may oviposit multiple times on the way to wherever it is they go. This was published in our chapter on Migration in Alex Cordoba-Aguilar's book of dragonflies as model organisms (2008, Oxfour U. Press).    Nevertheless, it would be very valuable to have data on fall tandems, copulating pairs, and especially oviposition anywhere along their route. If a few people over a range of latitudes would undertake to keep regular records of occurence of unmated individuals, mating behavior, and oviposition over the course of a year, that would be a gold mine of information. I tried to get similar, although less detailed, information for several years via a web site that Bob Barber set up for us, but so many respondents didn't really know odonates and so couldn't identify what they were observing that I gave up. Presumably members of this list wouldn't have that problem. Persistence and reasonably regular observations - every week or so, if possible - is key. I'd be glad to compile such data if anyone wants to pursue it, or you could just post it to the list.   I'm posting this to TexOdes as well (at least I hope so), so forgive any duplicate emails.   Mike May --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 11:25 AM Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:20:49 -0700 (PDT) John Matthews observed fall oviposition in Anax junius as far north as Virginia, and I've certainly seen tandem pairs in NJ well into October. We think they will begin ovipositing as soon as they are sexually mature, which seems to occur during, not after, migration. In fact, we suspect they may oviposit multiple times on the way to wherever it is they go. This was published in our chapter on Migration in Alex Cordoba-Aguilar's book of dragonflies as model organisms (2008, Oxfour U. Press).    Nevertheless, it would be very valuable to have data on fall tandems, copulating pairs, and especially oviposition anywhere along their route. If a few people over a range of latitudes would undertake to keep regular records of occurence of unmated individuals, mating behavior, and oviposition over the course of a year, that would be a gold mine of information. I tried to get similar, although less detailed, information for several years via a web site that Bob Barber set up for us, but so many respondents didn't really know odonates and so couldn't identify what they were observing that I gave up. Presumably members of this list wouldn't have that problem. Persistence and reasonably regular observations - every week or so, if possible - is key. I'd be glad to compile such data if anyone wants to pursue it, or you could just post it to the list.   I'm posting this to TexOdes as well (at least I hope so), so forgive any duplicate emails.   Mike May --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Late Skimmers Conway SC To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 11:25 AM Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot  out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We  convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour  and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a  lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a  couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy  spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county  list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers.  Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted  Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for  documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have  been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep,  the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had  dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue  Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a  quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point  there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only  time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them,  all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough  time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem  pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were  going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it  looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individu als-harassing-  a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual  ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by  other dragonflies. .. Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last  week's floods. CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always  so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: "Jan Roxburgh" <2jani AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:02:03 -0400 Hi Dennis, and June. Thank you both for responding. My husband and I had initially been concerned about the health of the Blue Dasher because they did look like blood-sucker insects feeding on it.. Due to the parasites' size, I would have loved to have known how to safely remove them. We have seen smaller parasites on a couple of other dragonflies. When we next go through our photo folders, I will try and find those pics for comparison. Seem to remember one shows the pest attached on the dragonfly's wings. Thank you for the encouragement to photograph as many dragonflies as we see. I had read about the tropicals coming here to South Florida. (It's swelteringly hot enough I am sure!) We are just starting out now with identifying what we photograph. Bought two books to help.. Stokes "Beginner's Guide to Dragonflies", and "Dragonflies and Damselflies of Georgia and the SouthEast," by Beaton. If there is a simple wish-list here on the group, we can be on the look-out for them in Miami. My husband uses a nice macro lens, so he can get up close and personal with them, and capture wonderful detail. I can't get as close with mine. We have found that Shark Valley in the Everglades can be a great place to photograph dragons. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Paulson To: jani Cc: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Dragonfly parasites? Jan, Most of the parasites you see on dragonflies are on their wing bases, and they are sandflies of the family Ceratopogonidae, usually the genus Forcipomyia. They suck blood from the basal wing veins but don't harm the dragonflies, for the most part. This family is the same group that includes the horrible sandflies (no-see'ums) that plague you in the evening in mangrove swamps and salt marshes in Florida. The ones I have seen on dragonflies look more or less like what you photographed but usually have larger wings and are a bit smaller, so I don't know if those are the same critters. I've never seen anything exactly like what you photographed. Your dragonflies are male Blue Dashers, Pachydiplax longipennis. You live in an area with no resident odonatologists, although various of us visit there from time to time. It's an area where tropical dragonflies are moving in from the West Indies, so I encourage you to photograph as many kinds of dragonflies as you see! Dennis Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:19:07 -0700 They migrate along the coast but also inland, probably over a wider front than we realize. Like birds, they may have preferred routes but get spread out from them by weather conditions if not random flight directions. On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Marion Dobbs wrote: > PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal > migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the > coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these > not the common pathways? > > Marion Dobbs > Rome (Floyd Co.) GA > spreadwing AT mac.com > pond_damsel AT comcast.net > http://www.mamomi.net > http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel > http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ > > "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one > another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be > heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:17:28 -0700 Jan, Most of the parasites you see on dragonflies are on their wing bases, and they are sandflies of the family Ceratopogonidae, usually the genus Forcipomyia. They suck blood from the basal wing veins but don't harm the dragonflies, for the most part. This family is the same group that includes the horrible sandflies (no-see'ums) that plague you in the evening in mangrove swamps and salt marshes in Florida. The ones I have seen on dragonflies look more or less like what you photographed but usually have larger wings and are a bit smaller, so I don't know if those are the same critters. I've never seen anything exactly like what you photographed. Your dragonflies are male Blue Dashers, Pachydiplax longipennis. You live in an area with no resident odonatologists, although various of us visit there from time to time. It's an area where tropical dragonflies are moving in from the West Indies, so I encourage you to photograph as many kinds of dragonflies as you see! Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 9:32 AM, jani wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a new member living in Miami, FL. My husband and I have become > keen dragonfly photographers over the past year. We planted a hedge > of Ixora, and discovered that attracts quite a few dragonflies to > our garden, which is nice and convenient, since wandering around > looking all over the place for them in the intense heat and humidity > isn't as much fun. > > I just created an album here named Jan Roxburgh which has a couple > of photos of a dragonfly that has two insects attached to its back. > When enlarging the photos, we could see that they have legs, > probably wings, and are attached by their mouths. Anyone know what > those critters are, and whether they harm the dragonflies? I did > research online, but didn't come up with much. We thought maybe a > gnat? > > Thanks. > > Jan > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Dragonfly parasites? From: June Tveekrem <damselfly AT southernspreadwing.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Those red insects are mites. They are very common parasites on dragonflies. I don't know what species of mite they are. June -- June Tveekrem Columbia, MD damselfly |AT| southernspreadwing.com ----- Original Message ---- From: jani <2jani AT bellsouth.net> To: se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:32:38 PM Subject: [se-odonata] Dragonfly parasites? Hi, I'm a new member living in Miami, FL. My husband and I have become keen dragonfly photographers over the past year. We planted a hedge of Ixora, and discovered that attracts quite a few dragonflies to our garden, which is nice and convenient, since wandering around looking all over the place for them in the intense heat and humidity isn't as much fun. I just created an album here named Jan Roxburgh which has a couple of photos of a dragonfly that has two insects attached to its back. When enlarging the photos, we could see that they have legs, probably wings, and are attached by their mouths. Anyone know what those critters are, and whether they harm the dragonflies? I did research online, but didn't come up with much. We thought maybe a gnat? Thanks. Jan Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:03:58 -0700 Chris, You're right that there are migrants and residents in the North and how they differ. They are not genetically different, as far as I recall, which surprised people when the research was done. But more likely there is a genetic progamming in these populations that provides them with the ability to emerge if they are ready to do so in late summer and then migrate south but to overwinter as larvae if they don't reach last instar in time to emerge. Those overwintering ones then emerge the next spring, breed and die. Presumably if one of them had a very fast-growing larva, it might emerge early enough to migrate south, but I don't think that is known. More likely they would not reach that stage and would overwinter, carrying on the "resident" population. Do the ones that arrive from the south in spring have larvae that take long enough so that some might overwinter? An interesting question is "how likely is it that a resident type can become a migrant or vice versa?" John Matthews studied the species extensively, and I believe his research showed that it was quite likely, as he raised eggs from the same female under different photoperiod regimes and found that photoperiod influenced developmental rate of the larvae and could turn them, essentially, into spring-emerging or fall-emerging larvae. Some of John's work is summarized in this reference: May, M. L., and J. H. Matthews. 2008. Migration in Odonata: a case study of Anax junius. In Dragonflies & Damselflies, Model Organisms for Ecological and Evolutionary Research, ed. A. Córdoba-Aguilar. Oxford University Press. The situation is more or less reversed in the southern part of the range, but with even less information. In southern Florida, most Anax junius in the spring are immature, presumably recently emerged from larvae that overwintered and likely to be heading north. There is somewhat of a hiatus in summer, not many of them (but there are some). Then in the fall there are great numbers of mature adults breeding all over the place, presumably those individuals seen migrating south along the Atlantic coast in previous months. But there are also breeding records in spring, so perhaps there is a resident population all the way down there as well. The situation in Mexico and the West Indies is even less well understood. How late in the winter do they breed at those latitudes? Are there any resident populations? Then what happens at mid latitudes such as the Carolinas and a bit farther north? Even more poorly known, I would say. Again, I think John Matthews was trying to answer these questions. The May and Matthews paper stated the belief that Common Green Darners were breeding as they headed south in the fall, with the assumption that individual dragonflies would breed somewhere, then continue farther south and breed again, perhaps multiple times. I don't think there is any evidence for this, and it would be good to know if this was indeed the case. Are those darners you saw, Chris, on their way to Florida or Cuba after their brief stop in South Carolina? Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > OK, just to get this straight, there are supposed to be (in northern > areas) two life cycles, migrants and residents, right? And the > migrants arrive early in the spring, lay, and then emerge in the > fall and head south. And the residents overwinter as larvae, emerge > and breed locally, and their offspring then again overwinter and > emerge the next year. And genetic studies have shown differences > between migrants and locals, so they are distinct in any one area. > Is that right? Migrants would then be multivoltine, residents > univoltine? > > And the reason September oviposition is of interest is that it's too > late for the locals? > > Sorry if I've hopelessly confused the situation - just trying to get > the basics down so I can follow the discussion. > > I think I remember this as a usual late summer - September thing - I > start seeing more CGDs at the ponds I frequent, and they are often > breeding/ovipositing. I see occasional individuals around as late > as December, but I don't see enough of them to know what they're > doing then. And I should take more consistent notes on behavior, > but I ususally don't. > > Chris > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > >> Chris, >> >> What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the >> ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in >> this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal >> Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it >> was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south >> Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that >> behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together >> that story from all the observers we have in the field now. >> >> Dennis >> > > ************************************************************************ > Christopher E. Hill > Biology Department > Coastal Carolina University > Conway, SC 29528-1954 > chill AT coastal.edu > http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm > > "It's better to be wrong than vague." - Freeman Dyson > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Dragonfly parasites? From: "jani" <2jani AT bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:32:38 -0000 Hi, I'm a new member living in Miami, FL. My husband and I have become keen dragonfly photographers over the past year. We planted a hedge of Ixora, and discovered that attracts quite a few dragonflies to our garden, which is nice and convenient, since wandering around looking all over the place for them in the intense heat and humidity isn't as much fun. I just created an album here named Jan Roxburgh which has a couple of photos of a dragonfly that has two insects attached to its back. When enlarging the photos, we could see that they have legs, probably wings, and are attached by their mouths. Anyone know what those critters are, and whether they harm the dragonflies? I did research online, but didn't come up with much. We thought maybe a gnat? Thanks. Jan Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:22:11 -0400 PS And these Georgia fall ovipositors probably wouldn't be coastal migrants. I always think of dragonflies as migrating along the coastline - when I think of dragonfly migration at all. Are these not the common pathways? Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another -- until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."__Bob Greene, author. Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few." _Shunryu Suzuki On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Chris, > > > What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the > ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in > this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal > Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it > was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south > Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that > behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together > that story from all the observers we have in the field now. > > Dennis > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > >> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot >> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour >> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a >> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >> couple Carolina Bays. >> >> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >> boggy >> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. >> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >> documentation. >> >> I failed. >> >> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, >> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a >> quarter as many? >> >> The list, combined across the two dates: >> >> Swamp Spreadwings >> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females >> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >> Common Pondhawk, a couple >> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >> Golden-winged Skimmer >> Bar-winged Skimmer >> Painted Skimmer >> Blue Dasher >> Wandering Glider >> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >> enough >> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem >> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were >> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it >> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals- >> harassing- >> a-pair type scenario. >> >> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual >> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >> other dragonflies... >> >> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last >> week's floods. >> >> CH >> >> ********************************************************************* >> *** >> Christopher E. Hill >> Biology Department >> Coastal Carolina University >> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >> chill AT coastal.edu >> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >> >> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >> always >> so >> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >> - Bertrand Russell >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > . > > Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Marion Dobbs <spreadwing AT mac.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:13:16 -0400 Dennis, I have photographs of Common Green Darners ovipositing on the following dates at the following locations: 10/01/2006 - Terrell Co. in southeast GA 10/04/2005 - Montgomery Co. in centralish GA 10/17/2004 - Colquitt Co. in extreme south GA 11/25/2005 - Cook Co. in extreme south GA These locations are all latitudinally south of Conway, SC, to a greater or lesser degree (:-0)), but they are also at later dates and certainly north of Florida Marion Marion Dobbs Rome (Floyd Co.) GA spreadwing AT mac.com pond_damsel AT comcast.net http://www.mamomi.net http://albums.phanfare.com/ponddamsel http://mariondobbs.smugmug.com/ _"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge." _ Daniel Boorstin On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Chris, > > > What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the > ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in > this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal > Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it > was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south > Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that > behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together > that story from all the observers we have in the field now. > > Dennis > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > >> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot >> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour >> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a >> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >> couple Carolina Bays. >> >> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for >> boggy >> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. >> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >> documentation. >> >> I failed. >> >> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, >> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a >> quarter as many? >> >> The list, combined across the two dates: >> >> Swamp Spreadwings >> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females >> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >> Common Pondhawk, a couple >> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >> Golden-winged Skimmer >> Bar-winged Skimmer >> Painted Skimmer >> Blue Dasher >> Wandering Glider >> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, >> enough >> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem >> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were >> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it >> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals- >> harassing- >> a-pair type scenario. >> >> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual >> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >> other dragonflies... >> >> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last >> week's floods. >> >> CH >> >> ********************************************************************* >> *** >> Christopher E. Hill >> Biology Department >> Coastal Carolina University >> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >> chill AT coastal.edu >> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >> >> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are >> always >> so >> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >> - Bertrand Russell >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > > > > Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:52:44 -0400 OK, just to get this straight, there are supposed to be (in northern areas) two life cycles, migrants and residents, right? And the migrants arrive early in the spring, lay, and then emerge in the fall and head south. And the residents overwinter as larvae, emerge and breed locally, and their offspring then again overwinter and emerge the next year. And genetic studies have shown differences between migrants and locals, so they are distinct in any one area. Is that right? Migrants would then be multivoltine, residents univoltine? And the reason September oviposition is of interest is that it's too late for the locals? Sorry if I've hopelessly confused the situation - just trying to get the basics down so I can follow the discussion. I think I remember this as a usual late summer - September thing - I start seeing more CGDs at the ponds I frequent, and they are often breeding/ovipositing. I see occasional individuals around as late as December, but I don't see enough of them to know what they're doing then. And I should take more consistent notes on behavior, but I ususally don't. Chris On Sep 28, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Chris, > > What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the > ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in > this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal > Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it > was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south > Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that > behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together > that story from all the observers we have in the field now. > > Dennis > ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm "It's better to be wrong than vague." - Freeman Dyson Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: jspippen <jspippen AT duke.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:42:16 -0400 (EDT) All, Not nearly as late as Chris's sightings, and I haven't had a chance to work them up and put them online yet, but I photographed some ovipositing Common Green Darners 29 August 2009 in southeast North Carolina (Brunswick Co. near Southport). Carolina Saddlebags were ovipositing in the same little storm water pond. Cheers, Jeff ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Jeffrey S. Pippen Nicholas School of the Environment Duke University, Durham, NC 27708 http://www.duke.edu/~jspippen/nature.htm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Chris, > > What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the > ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species > extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South > Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. > They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and > I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone > to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. > > Dennis > > > On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > >> A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot >> out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We >> convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour >> and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a >> lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a >> couple Carolina Bays. >> >> Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy >> spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county >> list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. >> Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted >> Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for >> documentation. >> >> I failed. >> >> But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have >> been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, >> the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had >> dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue >> Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a >> quarter as many? >> >> The list, combined across the two dates: >> >> Swamp Spreadwings >> Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females >> Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing >> Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) >> Common Pondhawk, a couple >> Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. >> Golden-winged Skimmer >> Bar-winged Skimmer >> Painted Skimmer >> Blue Dasher >> Wandering Glider >> Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point >> there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only >> time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, >> all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough >> time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem >> pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were >> going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it >> looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals-harassing- >> a-pair type scenario. >> >> Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual >> ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by >> other dragonflies... >> >> Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last >> week's floods. >> >> CH >> >> ************************************************************************ >> Christopher E. Hill >> Biology Department >> Coastal Carolina University >> Conway, SC 29528-1954 >> chill AT coastal.edu >> http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm >> >> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always >> so >> certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. >> - Bertrand Russell >> >> >> > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT comcast.net > > Subject: Re: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:25:04 -0700 Chris, What's especially interesting to me about your observations are the ovipositing Common Green Darners. It seems that fall breeding in this species extends at least as far north as the northern Coastal Plain of South Carolina. I didn't realize that, thinking maybe it was restricted to Florida. They are breeding in numbers in south Texas and southern California now, and I wonder how far north that behavior extends. It's long past time for someone to put together that story from all the observers we have in the field now. Dennis On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:05 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot > out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We > convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour > and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a > lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a > couple Carolina Bays. > > Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy > spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county > list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. > Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted > Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for > documentation. > > I failed. > > But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have > been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, > the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had > dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue > Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a > quarter as many? > > The list, combined across the two dates: > > Swamp Spreadwings > Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females > Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing > Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) > Common Pondhawk, a couple > Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. > Golden-winged Skimmer > Bar-winged Skimmer > Painted Skimmer > Blue Dasher > Wandering Glider > Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point > there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only > time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, > all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough > time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem > pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were > going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it > looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals- > harassing- > a-pair type scenario. > > Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual > ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by > other dragonflies... > > Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last > week's floods. > > CH > > ************************************************************************ > Christopher E. Hill > Biology Department > Coastal Carolina University > Conway, SC 29528-1954 > chill AT coastal.edu > http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm > > The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always > so > certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. > - Bertrand Russell > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Late Skimmers Conway SC From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:05:19 -0400 A front swept away the clouds Sunday afternoon and I decided to scoot out to Lewis Ocean Bay Heritage Preserve near Conway, SC. We convinced the 12 year old neighbor to watch our two boys for an hour and a half, so Amy was able to join me for a little slogging (well, a lot, really) through flooded sphagnum down a powerline through a couple Carolina Bays. Last Monday, while checking out the area - I've been looking for boggy spots where I might be able to add a couple new odes to the county list next year - I saw 11 Bar-winged Skimmers and 8 Painted Skimmers. Those are both rather late flight dates, especially the Painted Skimmers, so I wanted to go back out again and get some photos for documentation. I failed. But we did see some of each - 1 Bar-winged, 4 Painted. There have been a couple hard rains since last Monday, so instead of ankle deep, the water was near knee deep in places, and the ode abundance had dropped a lot. Last Monday I "counted" about 390 Little Blue Dragonlets in a about a half hour, yesterday (Sunday) I don't know, a quarter as many? The list, combined across the two dates: Swamp Spreadwings Citrine? or Fragile? Forktails. Most likely the former. a few females Common Green Darners, mating and ovipositing Swamp? Darner (one large dark darner, poorly seen) Common Pondhawk, a couple Little Blue Dragonlet. Clouds of them. Golden-winged Skimmer Bar-winged Skimmer Painted Skimmer Blue Dasher Wandering Glider Carolina Saddlebags - counted about 18 last Monday. At one point there was a flock. I've seen odonate swarms, but this was the only time I've ever seen anything I would call a "flock." Seven of them, all flying around in a group that persisted for a little while, enough time to fly by me a couple times. Granted, there were a couple tandem pairs, so it was about 5 "flying units," but still, those units were going around in a tight group for maybe a minute, so qualitatively it looked different from the more normal one-or-two-individuals-harassing- a-pair type scenario. Not a ton of diversity, but a different suite of odes from the usual ponds I visit. It's nice to see Pondhawks outnumbered 150 to 1 by other dragonflies... Hope those of you in Georgia have managed to tread water through last week's floods. CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: VLDELOACH AT aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:14:34 EDT The only 12-spotted Skimmer (L. pulchella) that I've seen perched and could photograph was last September at a nearby farm. I had been visiting the farm all summer and this was the only L. pulchella I saw there. I have several photos posted that can be found with the flickr search function - here's one of them: _http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/2861810695/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vickisnature/2861810695/) (mailto:se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com) He was in beautiful shape - one of the most stunning dragonflies I've ever seen. And he was either fatigued or unafraid - I was able to walk around him 360o and put my camera in his face. I assumed he was a migrant. On a different note - I'm wondering what impact our historic rains, rushing waters and flooding will have on next year's ode population? Vicki DeLoach Woodstock, GA In a message dated 9/21/2009 8:22:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, phenes53 AT yahoo.com writes: L. pulchella is a puzzling case. They're often noted as probable migrants near Cape May, NJ, and I've seen unexpectedly high (although not huge) numbers in association with Anax junius and Tramea spp. in areas where all the above apparently congregate to feed in the fall. The odd thing is that almost all the pulchella are clearly old and worn, whereas the "standard" migrants are fresh and fairly often not sexually mature. It would be interesting to know what the situation is in other areas. Mike May --- On Sun, 9/20/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Twelve-spotted Skimmer To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT Cc: "se-odonCc: "se-odonata AT Date: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 12:09 PM Chris, Twelve-spotted and other Libellula have been suspect, just because of their numbers and flight direction and association with known migrant species, in southbound coastal migrations in New England, I know. You're probably in a good area to observe migration, so whenever you could get to a coastal location in spring and fall, you might make interesting observations. A friend of mine visited Charleston in April some years ago and saw what she thought was a northbound coastal migration, although she didn't know the species. Of course you might see some shorebirds while you're there, which could prove distracting. Dennis On Sep 20, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Chris Hill wrote: Among the odes I've never seen in my home county on the coastal plain of SC are three "king skimmers:" Yellow-sided, Spangled and Twelve- spotted. Or flavida, cyanea and pulchella, if you lean that way. Each has more upland/northern affinities than the usual crew of common coastal plain skimmers. Yesterday I got to cross one of them off the wanted list. I stopped by the local supermarket to pick up ice cream and walked over to a little retention pond to see what was flying. Most notable were Roseate Skimmers Orthemis ferruginea, Black Saddlebags Tramea lacerata, Wandering Glider Pantala flavescens and several Common Green Darners Anax junius, with lots of mating and ovipositing activity. Nothing rare, but a nice assortment of big pretty odes doing interesting things. And then there was a male Twelve-spotted Skimmer cruising up and down the muddy shore. Hard to miss one of those! I think I've heard that there can be a fall movement of Twelve-spotted Skimmers. I don't know whether the one I saw is a "true" migrant or just a late summer individual dispersing into a new area. Nathan Dias found another individual this past May, also on the coastal plain in Charleston County, so maybe the fall date is just a coincidence, but with all the bird migration going on, it is easy to think of this as a fall migrant. Now if the fall would just send me a Red Saddlebags, a Meadowhawk of any flavor, or maybe a Phantom Darner? CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu _http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm_ (http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm) If you don't know the answer, no question is stupid. - Michael Price ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 _dennispaulson AT dennispauls_ (http://us.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dennispaulson AT comcast.net) Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: "Troy, Marla, & Cheyenne Hibbitts" <alterna2627 AT swtexas.net> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:39:33 -0500 In my neck of the woods (south Texas, right on the southern edge of the Hill Country to the west of San Antonio), the past 2 years (I've only been looking that long), we haven't seen 12-spots until at least mid-to-late August, with the bulk of their numbers appearing in September. This year was the first that I've seen females, as well. It is my impression that they're at least being hatched somewhere to the north of us, then dispersing into our area later in the summer. The males are fairly fresh adults, not too worn, but not immature either. Don't know if this qualifies as a "migration" or not, though. Troy Hibbitts Camp Wood, TX Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: opihi AT mindspring.com Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: Mike May <phenes53 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:21:42 -0700 (PDT) L. pulchella is a puzzling case. They're often noted as probable migrants near Cape May, NJ, and I've seen unexpectedly high (although not huge) numbers in association with Anax junius and Tramea spp. in areas where all the above apparently congregate to feed in the fall. The odd thing is that almost all the pulchella are clearly old and worn, whereas the "standard" migrants are fresh and fairly often not sexually mature. It would be interesting to know what the situation is in other areas.   Mike May --- On Sun, 9/20/09, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [se-odonata] Twelve-spotted Skimmer To: "Chris Hill" Cc: "se-odonata AT yahoogroups.com Odonata" Date: Sunday, September 20, 2009, 12:09 PM Chris, Twelve-spotted and other Libellula have been suspect, just because of their numbers and flight direction and association with known migrant species, in southbound coastal migrations in New England, I know. You're probably in a good area to observe migration, so whenever you could get to a coastal location in spring and fall, you might make interesting observations. A friend of mine visited Charleston in April some years ago and saw what she thought was a northbound coastal migration, although she didn't know the species. Of course you might see some shorebirds while you're there, which could prove distracting. Dennis On Sep 20, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Chris Hill wrote: Among the odes I've never seen in my home county on the coastal plain  of SC are three "king skimmers:" Yellow-sided, Spangled and Twelve-  spotted. Or flavida, cyanea and pulchella, if you lean that way.  Each has more upland/northern affinities than the usual crew of common  coastal plain skimmers. Yesterday I got to cross one of them off the wanted list. I stopped  by the local supermarket to pick up ice cream and walked over to a  little retention pond to see what was flying. Most notable were  Roseate Skimmers Orthemis ferruginea, Black Saddlebags Tramea  lacerata, Wandering Glider Pantala flavescens and several Common Green  Darners Anax junius, with lots of mating and ovipositing activity.  Nothing rare, but a nice assortment of big pretty odes doing  interesting things. And then there was a male Twelve-spotted Skimmer  cruising up and down the muddy shore. Hard to miss one of those! I think I've heard that there can be a fall movement of Twelve-spotted  Skimmers. I don't know whether the one I saw is a "true" migrant or  just a late summer individual dispersing into a new area. Nathan Dias  found another individual this past May, also on the coastal plain in  Charleston County, so maybe the fall date is just a coincidence, but  with all the bird migration going on, it is easy to think of this as a  fall migrant. Now if the fall would just send me a Red Saddlebags, a Meadowhawk of  any flavor, or maybe a Phantom Darner? CH ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ****** Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal. edu/chill/ chill.htm If you don't know the answer, no question is stupid. - Michael Price ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Subject: Re: Meadowhawk? From: June Tveekrem <damselfly AT southernspreadwing.com> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:22:01 -0400 Alex, The dragonfly is definitely a male meadowhawk, probably Autumn, although another possibility is Ruby Meadowhawk. You can get an ID for the mantisfly by posting to BugGuide (bugguide.net). I don't know of a general bug listserv for North Carolina, but you might find joining VA-MD-DE-Bugs useful. It's a Yahoo group. June -- June Tveekrem Columbia, Maryland, U.S. damselfly|AT|southernspreadwing.com http://SouthernSpreadwing.com Alex Netherton wrote: > I was out actually doing wildflower photography with my > (admittedly woefully inadequate) digital camera, and ran across this > dragonfly on a rock along the Swannanoa River. I called it a Yellow > Legged (Autumn) Meadowhawk, _Sympetrum vicinum,_ but I could > certainly be wrong. Please remember that I trained most of my young > adult life as a Botanist. I am not really an Entomologist, I just own > this list :-D > > Really a very showy creature, I must say. Another critter I saw when > out hunting was a Mantis Fly. I know it is not an Odonate, but know > of no forum for general bugs, and I find it of interest. > > The odd thing is that, though not really related to the Mantids (or > so "they" say), it had me thinking it was one until I realized I had > heard of Mantisflies somewhere. So odd that their general > construction is so similar to Mantids, though in different orders. > Convergence, I guess... > > I am sure someone will correct my ID of the Dragon, but if anyone has > an ID on the Mantispid, I would appreciate it. > > Thanks! -- Alex Netherton Asheville, NC http://blueridgediscovery.com http://blueridgediscovery.blogspot.com Subject: Re: Meadowhawk? From: Steve Hummel <shummel AT iowatelecom.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:30:50 -0500 Hi Alex, Looks like there is too much black on the abdomen for vicinum, but hard to tell from the photo. For general insects try Bug Guide from Iowa State University: http://bugguide.net/node/view/15740 You can post photos of insects and get advice on identifications. Steve Steve Hummel shummel AT iowatelecom.net On Sep 20, 2009, at 7:15 PM, Alex Netherton wrote: I was out actually doing wildflower photography with my (admittedly woefully inadequate) digital camera, and ran across this dragonfly on a rock along the Swannanoa River. I called it a Yellow Legged (Autumn) Meadowhawk,Sympetrum vicinum, but I could certainly be wrong. Please remember that I trained most of my young adult life as a Botanist. I am not really an Entomologist, I just own this list :-D Really a very showy creature, I must say. Another critter I saw when out hunting was a Mantis Fly. I know it is not an Odonate, but know of no forum for general bugs, and I find it of interest. The odd thing is that, though not really related to the Mantids (or so "they" say), it had me thinking it was one until I realized I had heard of Mantisflies somewhere. So odd that their general construction is so similar to Mantids, though in different orders. Convergence, I guess... I am sure someone will correct my ID of the Dragon, but if anyone has an ID on the Mantispid, I would appreciate it. Thanks! -- Alex Netherton Asheville, NC http://blueridgediscovery.com http://blueridgediscovery.blogspot.com Subject: Meadowhawk? From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:15:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:09:50 -0700 Chris, Twelve-spotted and other Libellula have been suspect, just because of their numbers and flight direction and association with known migrant species, in southbound coastal migrations in New England, I know. You're probably in a good area to observe migration, so whenever you could get to a coastal location in spring and fall, you might make interesting observations. A friend of mine visited Charleston in April some years ago and saw what she thought was a northbound coastal migration, although she didn't know the species. Of course you might see some shorebirds while you're there, which could prove distracting. Dennis On Sep 20, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Chris Hill wrote: > Among the odes I've never seen in my home county on the coastal plain > of SC are three "king skimmers:" Yellow-sided, Spangled and Twelve- > spotted. Or flavida, cyanea and pulchella, if you lean that way. > Each has more upland/northern affinities than the usual crew of common > coastal plain skimmers. > > Yesterday I got to cross one of them off the wanted list. I stopped > by the local supermarket to pick up ice cream and walked over to a > little retention pond to see what was flying. Most notable were > Roseate Skimmers Orthemis ferruginea, Black Saddlebags Tramea > lacerata, Wandering Glider Pantala flavescens and several Common Green > Darners Anax junius, with lots of mating and ovipositing activity. > Nothing rare, but a nice assortment of big pretty odes doing > interesting things. And then there was a male Twelve-spotted Skimmer > cruising up and down the muddy shore. Hard to miss one of those! > > I think I've heard that there can be a fall movement of Twelve-spotted > Skimmers. I don't know whether the one I saw is a "true" migrant or > just a late summer individual dispersing into a new area. Nathan Dias > found another individual this past May, also on the coastal plain in > Charleston County, so maybe the fall date is just a coincidence, but > with all the bird migration going on, it is easy to think of this as a > fall migrant. > > Now if the fall would just send me a Red Saddlebags, a Meadowhawk of > any flavor, or maybe a Phantom Darner? > > CH > > ************************************************************************ > Christopher E. Hill > Biology Department > Coastal Carolina University > Conway, SC 29528-1954 > chill AT coastal.edu > http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm > > If you don't know the answer, no question is stupid. - Michael Price > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Twelve-spotted Skimmer From: Chris Hill <chill AT coastal.edu> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:22:10 -0400 Among the odes I've never seen in my home county on the coastal plain of SC are three "king skimmers:" Yellow-sided, Spangled and Twelve- spotted. Or flavida, cyanea and pulchella, if you lean that way. Each has more upland/northern affinities than the usual crew of common coastal plain skimmers. Yesterday I got to cross one of them off the wanted list. I stopped by the local supermarket to pick up ice cream and walked over to a little retention pond to see what was flying. Most notable were Roseate Skimmers Orthemis ferruginea, Black Saddlebags Tramea lacerata, Wandering Glider Pantala flavescens and several Common Green Darners Anax junius, with lots of mating and ovipositing activity. Nothing rare, but a nice assortment of big pretty odes doing interesting things. And then there was a male Twelve-spotted Skimmer cruising up and down the muddy shore. Hard to miss one of those! I think I've heard that there can be a fall movement of Twelve-spotted Skimmers. I don't know whether the one I saw is a "true" migrant or just a late summer individual dispersing into a new area. Nathan Dias found another individual this past May, also on the coastal plain in Charleston County, so maybe the fall date is just a coincidence, but with all the bird migration going on, it is easy to think of this as a fall migrant. Now if the fall would just send me a Red Saddlebags, a Meadowhawk of any flavor, or maybe a Phantom Darner? CH ************************************************************************ Christopher E. Hill Biology Department Coastal Carolina University Conway, SC 29528-1954 chill AT coastal.edu http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm If you don't know the answer, no question is stupid. - Michael Price Subject: [Fwd: Hilton Pond 09/01/09 (Damsels & Dragons)] [1 Attachment] From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:34:44 -0400 Subject: Re: "Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood!" AAh! Mr. Rogers-Good Times!! and Dragonflies-well most of the time! From: Alex Netherton <danetherton AT charter.net> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:42:33 -0400