Birdingonthe.Net Recent Postings from The Pelagics List > Home > Mail > Alerts Updated on Monday, May 5 at 03:37 PM ET The most recently received Mail is at the top.	Boreal Chickadee,©Barry Kent Mackay

28 Apr Re: RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, [] 2 May Fiji Petrel - the search for another ‘lost’ petrel – seabirders wanted! [Tony Pym ] 1 May San Diego Deep Water May 10 - 11 ["W. Terry Hunefeld" ] 30 Apr Hatteras, NC and Manteo, NC Pelagic Trips In May and June ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 30 Apr Manteo, NC Gulf Stream Pelagics on June 6, 7, & 8 ["Paul A. Guris" ] 28 Apr Re: RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, [] 28 Apr Re: RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, ["Andy Paterson" ] 28 Apr RE: RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, ["Alvaro Jaramillo" ] 28 Apr RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, ["Andy Paterson" ] 23 Apr Pterodroma, Parakeets, Albatross, Orca, Giant Squid. ORCA & GIANT SQUID??? ["Terry Hunefeld" ] 22 Apr DISCOUNT on May 24, 25, 26 Pelagic Trips fr. Manteo; space on some Hatteras dates ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 22 Apr Need Five Persons for Hatteras Pelagic trip Saturday, April 26 ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 03 Apr Murphy’s Petrel, Parakeet Auklet, Tristram’s Storm-petrel ["Terry Hunefeld" ] 02 Apr The SoCal Pelagic Birding Dream Season: Aug 25 - Sept 6 ["Terry Hunefeld" ] 01 Apr May 3 LAAS Deepwater Pelagic from Santa Barbara ["toddamcgrath" ] 27 Mar Possible Cape Gannet in Mediterranean ["Andy Paterson" ] 25 Mar Re: Boats and Birding: A General Statement [Robert Wallace ] 25 Mar Boats and Birding: A General Statement ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 21 Mar Laysan Albatrosses: March 1, 2008 trip report ["thebirdguide" ] 18 Mar San Diego Pelagic Trip Report - Los Coronados Islands ["Terry Hunefeld" ] 14 Mar Re: Closing the issue of the boat ["John Hansen" ] 13 Mar Re: Closing the issue of the boat [] 13 Mar I'm outta here [Nate Dias ] 12 Mar Chris Sloan ["John Hansen" ] 12 Mar Re: Closing the issue of the boat ["Chris Sloan" ] 12 Mar Re: Brian's boat,etc ["John Hansen" ] 12 Mar Closing the issue of the boat ["majorhart2000" ] 10 Mar Re: Great Skua--Hopefully the last on this thread ["John Hansen" ] 10 Mar Re: Brian's boat,etc [] 10 Mar Re: Brian's boat,etc ["John Hansen" ] 10 Mar Brian's boat,etc [] 10 Mar Re: Great Skua--Hopefully the last on this thread [] 9 Mar Great Skua--Hopefully the last on this thread [] 9 Mar Sorry, my last post was meant to be private Re: RFI--Great Skua [] 9 Mar Re: RFI--Great Skua Defense of John [] 6 Mar Re: RFI--Great Skua ["John Hansen" ] 6 Mar Re: RFI--Great Skua [James Hays ] 6 Mar RFI--Great Skua [] 6 Mar Announcement - THE REDISCOVERY OF BECK'S PETREL! [Tony Pym ] 05 Mar Re: Stormy Petrel II (strong endorsement) [] 4 Mar Stormy Petrel II (Reply to John Odgers post) [Kate Sutherland ] 3 Mar Re: N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June ["John Hansen" ] 3 Mar Re: N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June ["David Heath" ] 3 Mar Fw: N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June [Robert Wallace ] 3 Mar Beautiful Photos ["John Hansen" ] 2 Mar Re: N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June ["John Hansen" ] 2 Mar Great Skua [] 2 Mar Re: N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June [Robert Wallace ] 2 Mar Re: N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June [Robert Wallace ] 28 Feb San Diego 5-day mega-rarity expedition set to sail June 2-6 ["Terry Hunefeld" ] 25 Feb Thanks For A Great Winter Season off Cape Hatteras ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] 21 Feb One Space Avail. on Feb. 23(24) Hatteras Trip; Skuas Seen Last Weekend on Two Days ["J. BRIAN PATTESON" ] Subject: Re: RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, From: g.tepke AT comcast.net Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:53:49 +0000 -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Andy Paterson" > > *(15) Band-rumped / Madeiran Storm-petrel . . . which leaves Band-rumped, which at least is descriptive. True, but is it not also descriptive of many other storm-petrel species? Glen Tepke Oakland, California, USA Subject: Fiji Petrel - the search for another ‘lost’ petrel – seabirders wanted! From: Tony Pym <tony_pym AT hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:29:42 +0100 I’m intending joining Hadoram Shirihai and Dick Watling who have organised a boat charter of one week (up to a maximum 9 days) to try to find and photograph the Fiji Petrel (Pseudobulweria macgillivrayi). The journey will be from Fiji, a suitable boat has been arranged, and two ton of chum(!) will be aboard. It will sail 17 July 2008. Most will know the story behind this enigmatic and near-mythical species. Unrecorded from the type specimen taken in 1855 until 1984 when Dick had the extraordinary experience, when spotlighting, of a bird crash-landing into his head! Breeding is suspected on the small island of Gau but detailed searching there has not found any birds. Some 10 though, mainly juveniles, have since crashed onto roofs and grounded in a local village there. One of these last year, 2007, having died, is now preserved as a study skin (the 1855 skin is at the BMNH and this second in Fiji). The biology of the species is completely unknown. The voyage has three main goals: 1. To learn the at-sea identification of the Fiji Petrel, observe behaviour if possible, and hopefully get an understanding of the likely numbers in the area. 2. To try to obtain photos of Fiji Petrel at sea, for use in both scientific and conservation/education publications to protect native Fijian birds. 3. To survey other species of petrels in this area, of which limited information is currently available. This is an invitation to keen seabird observers and photographers. Hadoram and Dick have space for only two or three more participants who are willing to share (equally) the costs of the boat. It will cost about US$5000 each (the final price depending on numbers sharing the costs). For further information please contact Hadoram at albatross_shirihai AT hotmail.com [As most already will know Dick is also the author of the 'A Guide to the Birds of Fiji and Western Polynesia', and Hadoram was responsible for the recent rediscovery of Beck's Petrel and is the principal author of the forthcoming ‘Albatrosses, Petrels and Shearwaters of the world: a handbook to their taxonomy, identification, ecology and conservation’] PS The recent charter to photograph Zino’s Petrel at sea (Seabird-News 13/4/08) was successful – more on this another time. Regards Tony _________________________________________________________________ Discover and Win with Live Search http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000007ukm/direct/01/ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:pelagics-digest AT yahoogroups.com mailto:pelagics-fullfeatured AT yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: pelagics-unsubscribe AT yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Subject: San Diego Deep Water May 10 - 11 From: "W. Terry Hunefeld" <sdbirdlover AT fastmail.fm> Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 07:46:59 +0000 Greetings, Seabirders Cook's Petrel? Murphy's? For those of you feeling a wave a pelagic deprivation in light of this Saturday's LA Audubon Condor Express trip being cancelled due to weather, there are 6 spaces available for the double overnight deep water trip on May 10 out of San Diego. May 1 price increase. Point Loma Landing will be increasing the price from $175 to $200 today, still time to get on at 175. . http://www.socalbirding.com/may_10-12_continental_shelf_deep_water or www.socalbirding.com and click on Edge Of The Continental Shelf Deep Water Mega-Rarity Expedition W. Terry Hunefeld Life is short. Bird often. http://www.SoCalBirding.com Pelagic Seabirding Trips From San Diego to: 9-mile Bank Los Coronados Islands Cortes & Tanner Banks Channel Islands http://www.SeaBreeze-Inn.com SeaBreeze Inn Bed and Breakfast Lovely rooms with ocean views and soft sea breezes from $90 Across Hwy 101 from Moonlight Beach Terry ---- W. Terry Hunefeld Life is short. Bird often. www.SoCalBirding.com Pelagic Seabirding Trips from San Diego to: 9-mile Bank Los Coronados Islands Cortes & Tanner Banks Channel Islands Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless Subject: Hatteras, NC and Manteo, NC Pelagic Trips In May and June From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:34:29 -0500 Dear Seabirders, There is still an opportunity for more birders to join a number of our pelagic trips off Cape Hatteras in May and June. Beginning on Saturday, May 17, we have openings daily through Thursday, May 22 on trips from Hatteras, NC. All of our trips from Hatteras from May 23 through May 31 are full, but we have space remaining on trips that we have chartered on the Country Girl on May 24, 25, and 26. These trips depart from Manteo and over the years have been very productive for rarities and seabird diversity. They were a bit slow in 2007, but that was unusual. We also have room on some trips in early June, which can still be productive for rarities and generally better for shearwaters and storm-petrels. Here is a list of available combinations of dates this spring: Hatteras: May 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 Manteo: May 24, 25, 26 Hatteras: June 1 (one space), 2, 6, 7, 8 In most years, the Manteo departures would have filled by now, but there seem be more people signing up for Hatteras trips this year, even mid-week. We would like to go ahead and fill the trips, so we are offering a discounted price for participants who sign up for two or more Manteo trips. These trips are $145/person/day (same as last year!), but for persons taking two trips, we will discount it to $135/person/day and all three trips can be booked for $395. For groups of FIVE or more people booking together, the trips are $125/person/day, $240/person/two days or $350/person for all three days. Even near capacity, we probably won't make any profit on these, so please take advantage of the service which is being offered. With rising fuel prices, there could be less opportunities to go offshore next year. You can find more information on our website about these and all of the trips we offer: http://www.seabirding.com/. In addition to regularly scheduled trips, we can arrange private charters at a reasonable rate. This is something we can accomplish because we operate most of our trips aboard our own boat in Hatteras, which is the closest port to the Gulf Stream. Ours is an inspected vessel, which means she is subject to annual inspections by the U.S. Coast Guard. We recently completed the inspection and were highly rated by the Marine Safety Team. The Country Girl is also an inspected boat, and she is kept in top condition by her captain and crew. I realize that there is not much data on the website for the earlier May dates, but they should be good. We have recorded both Trindade Petrel and Fea's Petrel as early as May 14. We have only ever run one trip on May 17, and we saw a Red-billed Tropicbird on that date. I don't think we have yet run one on May 18. But beginning on May 19, we have recorded Trindade Petrel and Fea's Petrel on all dates through June 2. Bermuda Petrel proably occurs then too, but it is very rare and we haven't run enough trips to bear this out. Our coverage in early June has been less intense than late May, but we have had Bermuda Petrel through June 4 (and also in July, August, and September) and European Storm-Petrel through June 5. Both Red-billed and White-tailed Tropicbirds are probably more likely in June than May, especially the latter. Each spring is little different because of varying weather patterns and the meandering of the Gulf Stream, but you can be sssured we will do our best to find what's out there. We pioneered spring pelagic birding off Cape Hatteras and have been at it every year since 1990. Capt. Brian Patteson Hatteras, NC brian AT patteson.com http://www.seabirding.com/ Subject: Manteo, NC Gulf Stream Pelagics on June 6, 7, & 8 From: "Paul A. Guris" <pelagics-list AT paulagics.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:04:05 -0400 See Life Paulagics is running trips aboard the Country Girl on June 6, 7, and 8 out of Manteo, NC. June 6 is getting very close to being sold out. We also have a few spaces on May 30, but the May 31, June 1, and June 2 trips are all sold out. This late spring time frame has proven itself year after year in terms of both the regularly occurring species as well as rarities. The Country Girl is a legendary fast boat and they've just put in new engines. This speed has been used in the past to chase down rare birds that normal boats would not stand a chance of running after. Manteo is a great location. In addition to its proximity to the productive pelagic waters, it is also close to great land birding areas. Alligator River NWR to the west has Swainson's Warbler, abundant Prothonotary Warblers, Blue Grosbeak, Hooded Warbler, Brown-headed Nuthatch, Yellow-throated Warbler, and many other species. It is the best place I've ever experienced for seeing Black Bears, and there is even a chance of glimpsing the reintroduced and endangered Red Wolf. Palmetto Peartree Preserve, about 1-1/4 hours west of Manteo, has thriving colonies of Red-cockaded Woodpecker and Red-headed can be found there too. Pea Island can be good for shorebirds and terns. Brown-headed Nuthatch can even be found right at some of the motels in Manteo. A number of us will be in the area prior to the trips and should be able to nail down some of the species of special interest. One or more of us may even be available to go birding with you. If you are traveling with family or have interests outside of birds, Kitty Hawk and the Wright Brothers Memorial are minutes away, Manteo has a very good aquarium, there are several lighthouses from north to south, plus many other things to see and do. The Elizabethan Gardens are beautiful. Roanoke Island Festival Park has a fully functional ship modeled after those used in the 16th century. And there are more restaurants than you'll have time to visit. If you're planning on coming out with us and need information on birding, accommodations, and other sites, feel free to contact us. Hope to see you aboard. -PAG Paul A. Guris See Life Paulagics P.O. Box 161 Green Lane, PA 18054 www.paulagics.com 215-234-6805 info AT paulagics.com Subject: Re: RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, From: g.tepke AT comcast.net Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:53:49 +0000 -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Andy Paterson" > > *(15) Band-rumped / Madeiran Storm-petrel . . . which leaves Band-rumped, which at least is descriptive. True, but is it not also descriptive of many other storm-petrel species? Glen Tepke Oakland, California, USA Subject: Re: RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, From: "Andy Paterson" <andy.birds AT gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:53:12 +0200 Gracias, Alvaro. Another point of view is always of interest. Regards, Andy 2008/4/28 Alvaro Jaramillo : > Andy > > Spanish is even more complicated than the English common name problem. I > think that every nation should standardize usage within their > jurisdiction, > but that there should be a different "International Spanish" list for > names. > One list will just not work. You will not get Argentines calling one of > "their birds" by the Chilean name, or vise versa. Also the European > Spanish > names sound odd, and are sometimes culturally irrelevant in Latin America. > All out standardization of Spanish names would kill so many interesting, > culturally relevant, colorful, and well known names that it seems to be at > too high a cost for it to go forward. This is from the perspective of > someone from Chile where most birds actually have a widespread Chilean > name, > or a relatively standardized name to begin with and where people from > rural > areas, or fishermen, know a high proportion of the local birds (due to the > smaller list of birds in this temperate country). I think it is an > entirely > different can of worms in tropical Latin American nations with huge lists, > with many species not having any widely used Spanish name at all. So an > international standardized Spanish name list would be good, but not at the > expense of in country lists; I think that two lists like this would work > better than one. > > Regards > > Alvaro > > Alvaro Jaramillo > chucao AT coastside.net > Half Moon Bay, California > > Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide > www.fieldguides.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:pelagics AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Andy Paterson > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:16 PM > To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [pelagics] RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, > > Hi, > > This is written in response to Angus Wilson's appeal '*You say Madeiran > and > I say Band-rumped ….*' which although it may have little effect is at > least > a serious attempt to put some much needed order into the English name > problem and the multiplicity of these. As some of the same problem may > exist > in the use of Spanish names, I would be interested to hear what Alvaro > Jaramillo has to say on the subject. > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 > 1:29 PM > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Andy Paterson Torremolinos, España http://guiri-pajarero-suelto.blogspot.com (español) http://andys-birds.blogspot.com (english) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:pelagics-digest AT yahoogroups.com mailto:pelagics-fullfeatured AT yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: pelagics-unsubscribe AT yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Subject: RE: RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, From: "Alvaro Jaramillo" <chucao AT coastside.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:43:14 -0700 Andy Spanish is even more complicated than the English common name problem. I think that every nation should standardize usage within their jurisdiction, but that there should be a different "International Spanish" list for names. One list will just not work. You will not get Argentines calling one of "their birds" by the Chilean name, or vise versa. Also the European Spanish names sound odd, and are sometimes culturally irrelevant in Latin America. All out standardization of Spanish names would kill so many interesting, culturally relevant, colorful, and well known names that it seems to be at too high a cost for it to go forward. This is from the perspective of someone from Chile where most birds actually have a widespread Chilean name, or a relatively standardized name to begin with and where people from rural areas, or fishermen, know a high proportion of the local birds (due to the smaller list of birds in this temperate country). I think it is an entirely different can of worms in tropical Latin American nations with huge lists, with many species not having any widely used Spanish name at all. So an international standardized Spanish name list would be good, but not at the expense of in country lists; I think that two lists like this would work better than one. Regards Alvaro Alvaro Jaramillo chucao AT coastside.net Half Moon Bay, California Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide www.fieldguides.com -----Original Message----- From: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:pelagics AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy Paterson Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:16 PM To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [pelagics] RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, Hi, This is written in response to Angus Wilson's appeal '*You say Madeiran and I say Band-rumped ….*' which although it may have little effect is at least a serious attempt to put some much needed order into the English name problem and the multiplicity of these. As some of the same problem may exist in the use of Spanish names, I would be interested to hear what Alvaro Jaramillo has to say on the subject. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1402 - Release Date: 4/28/2008 1:29 PM ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:pelagics-digest AT yahoogroups.com mailto:pelagics-fullfeatured AT yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: pelagics-unsubscribe AT yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Subject: RE: You say Madeiran and I say ... etc, From: "Andy Paterson" <andy.birds AT gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:16:17 +0200 Hi, This is written in response to Angus Wilson's appeal '*You say Madeiran and I say Band-rumped ….*' which although it may have little effect is at least a serious attempt to put some much needed order into the English name problem and the multiplicity of these. As some of the same problem may exist in the use of Spanish names, I would be interested to hear what Alvaro Jaramillo has to say on the subject. *(5) Trinidade Petrel** *(*Pterodroma arminjoniana*) I am all in favour of separating this by the geographical name, especially as it seems possible that there may be a split in the future. As you note, this name has also gained ground, although I must admit that I have seen it spelt (in private mail) without the final '*e*', which means a totally different geographical location. *(7) Fea's/Cape Verde Petrel** *(*Pterodroma feae*) First, I believe that *Gon-gon* is the local Portuguese name for this species and it is what we should use officially in Spain, although last weekend at the Iberian Seabird Group (GIAM) conference in Algeciras some of us were talking about this and the following species and much preferred to call this one either by the Latin or as *Petrel de Fea* = *Feas's Petrel*. We much preferred it to Cape Verde Petrel. *(8) Zino's/**Madeira** Petrel* (*Pterodroma madeira*) I think your comments on the naming of this sp. as Zino's Petrel are absolutely correct. I use the Spanish version - *Petrel de Zino* - and not the alternative *Freira** *which has gained little or no ground here outside the official usage. Your comment on confusion with Madeiran Storm-petrel is appropriate and there is the same problem with the Spanish (*Paíño de Madeira*). I feel that the commemoration of the work of the Zinos in the conservation of this species is important and is also a probable fund raiser locally and internationally (see also Cahow below). I am all in favour of *Zino's Petrel*. *(9) Cahow/Bermuda Petrel* (*Pterodroma cahow*) Agree in all respects, the local conservation identity is important. *Cahow* . *(13) Macaronesian Shearwater *(*Puffinus baroli*) This is a whole can of worms from the naming point of view, especially as it is far from impossible that there will be further changes. The name is a bit clumsy and I believe that there has been a proposal to call it Barol*i*'s Shearwater, which in itself would be incorrect, as it should be Barol*o*'s Shearwater (which sounds like a character from '*The Barber of Seville*'!). If one is using names such as Zino's or Fea's, then there would be a case for Barolo's, just as there is for using a geographical name which describes the distribution. We were also talking about what to call this in Spanish last weekend. *(15) Band-rumped / Madeiran Storm-petrel **(Oceanodroma castro)*** If one agrees that some species should be named with the aim of reducing possible confusion (as in the case of using Zino's Petrel instead of Madeiran Petrel), then the same rule should apply here and Madeiran Storm-petrel rejected. This leaves Harcourt's and Band-rumped, the former virtually out of use, as noted, although it does have priority as far as I am aware, which leaves Band-rumped, which at least is descriptive. What will happen if and when there is another split as indicated remains to be seen. Sufficient unto the day? *(16) British/European Storm-Petrel* (*Hydrobates pelagicus*) I think the reasons given for calling it *European Storm-petrel* are totally coherent. We call it *Paíño Europeo* here in Spain. *Mediterranean** / Yelkouan Shearwater* *(Puffinus yelkouan)* Although not given by Angus, I would also like to call attention to the English names used for this species. In Spanish, officially we call it *Pardela Mediterránea* – Mediterreanean Shearwater – which is also used in English, but we also call it *Pardela Yelkouan* or Yelkouan Shearwater, a name I have also heard used in English. However, the name Mediterranean Shearwater was also applied many years ago to the Cory's Shearwater *Calonectris diomedea*, and I believe that this indeed has priority, therefore there is a good case for calling it *Yelkouan Shearwater *(which is what I prefer to use in both English and Spanish). *Scopoli's / Cory's Shearwaters* *(Calonectris diomedea – diomedea / borealis)* Perhaps one might also consider what will happen, and indeed is happening in some circles, with the proposed split between *Calonectris diomedea diomedea* and *C.d. borealis* (which does not convince me personally and I see plenty of both subspp. each year). However, some, notably the Dutch, are calling *borealis* *Cory's* and *diomedea* *Scopoli's * and I have seen this in print in an English bird magazine. Andy Paterson Torremolinos, España http://guiri-pajarero-suelto.blogspot.com (español) http://andys-birds.blogspot.com (english) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:pelagics-digest AT yahoogroups.com mailto:pelagics-fullfeatured AT yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: pelagics-unsubscribe AT yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Subject: Pterodroma, Parakeets, Albatross, Orca, Giant Squid. ORCA & GIANT SQUID??? From: "Terry Hunefeld" <sdbirdlover AT fastmail.fm> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:12:27 -0000 It's getting to be that time of year when there's no telling what you'll find out in the Pacific Ocean of SoCal. Last June I was with Dave Povey and Pete Ginsburg about 6 miles offshore when we spotted an enormous feeding frenzy of gulls and terns. We motored over to find an amazing spectacle: several acres of suction-cupped tentacles protruding 18 – 24 inches above the surface of the sea, waving back and forth, surfacing for 2 seconds then submerging, only to reappear a second later – a surreal Alice In Wonderland spectacle of hundreds of reddish-brown "tentacle bushes" waving in the wind. Neither Dave nor Pete had ever witnessed such an event in their combined 50 years at sea. These were probably Humboldt Squid – also known as Flying Squid – that typically inhabit depths of 2,000 feet but had evidently driven/followed a school of bait fish to the surface – and the birds were having a field day. These are the types of mind-boggling scenes you find only by being "OUT THERE." Four exciting pelagic trips are upcoming in SoCal, three of them originating right here in San Diego: Sat, May 3. Deep water trip to the San Juan Seamount. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS/message/7166 Sat, May 10. 3/4 day trip to the Nine-mile bank and Coronados Islands http://www.socalbirding.com/may_10_2008_booby_adventure_34_day Sat, Sun, May 10 & 11. 1.5 day trip to deep water http://www.socalbirding.com/may_10-12_continental_shelf_deep_water And, the deep water Granddaddy of them all: The Searcher 5 day expedition June 2 – 6. A week of birding the Channel Islands and the deep waters of the Continental Shelf. http://www.socalbirding.com/june_2-6_2008_searcher_5-day_expedition WHAT'S OUT THERE? The Southern California Bight is brimming with life. The 3 deep water pelagic trips will explore submarine trenches and canyons along the Continental Shelf – some or all will strike it rich. Last year everyone on the May Condor Express trip witnessed amazing spectacles: a thousand SABINE'S GULLS, a pod of ORCA, seven PARAKEET AUKLETS. During the first two weeks of April on the NOAA ship Miller Freeman off the coast of Washington and Oregon I saw dozens of PARAKEET AUKLETS. Will they be in SoCal in May? We won't know till we go. BLACK-FOOTED ALBATROSS is frequent in May and June, and we should see LAYSAN'S on most or all deep water trips. MURPHY'S PETREL is a rare but routine spring visitor in these waters over the continental shelf mid-April through early June. 11 of 14 accepted state records for HAWAIIAN PETREL are June-September, the remaining 3 records are spring – April & May. Dozens of COOK'S PETRELS were seen by Searcher crew on fishing trips in June 2007 in deep water off the Baja and San Diego Coast. The endemic ASHY STORM-PETREL, one of the rarest storm-petrels in the world, are fairly common this time of year, mostly in the northern Channel Islands, where The Condor Express and Searcher explore. BLACK STORM-PETRELS are common in June. We have great odds at seeing both white-rumped and dark-rumped LEACH'S STORM-PETRELS. All deep water trips will be in RED-BILLED TROPICBIRD waters, e.g. one seen 19 May 2007 near San Clemente Island. We'll most likely see SOUTH POLAR SKUA, POMARINE JAEGERS, PARASITIC JAEGERS and SABINE'S GULL. XANTUS'S MURRELETS will be plentiful. A TUFTED PUFFIN was seen in the Channel Islands May, 2002 and a HORNED PUFFIN was seen 17 May 2007 between Santa Rosa and Santa Cruz Islands. 4 trips. 4 adventures. What will we find? We don't know, but it will be something good. Like Dave Povey says about seabirding, "It's like prospecting for gold. Sometimes you come up with nothing, but then you strike it rich. The thrill is in the anticipation." W. Terry Hunefeld Life is short. Bird often. http://www.SoCalBirding.com Pelagic Seabirding Trips From San Diego to: 9-mile Bank Los Coronados Islands Cortes & Tanner Banks Channel Islands Subject: DISCOUNT on May 24, 25, 26 Pelagic Trips fr. Manteo; space on some Hatteras dates From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:45:48 -0500 Seabirders, Many of you have already signed up for pelagic trips this spring, and we appreciate that. Trips on May 24, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31 and June 1 from Hatteras are full. We have one space on May 23 and 27. For birders wishing to book a number of days this spring, it is not too late. Several spaces remain on May 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22 and June 2, 6, 7, and 8, all from Hatteras. These dates can be good for the rare Pterodromas and Red-billed Tropicbird, and the June dates hold promise for European Storm-Petrel, based on the 2005 influx. More information about all of our trips is available on our website- http://www.seabirding.com/. As astonishing as this may seem, we still have a number of spaces available over Memorial Day Weekend on pelagic birding trips on the Country Girl from Pirate's Cove Marina (Manteo) NC on May 24, 25, and 26. Most years, these trips are usually full by now, but this year we have had more people booking for weekday trips from Hatteras during the following week. I think this is because we had a slow set of trips up there last year, but it would be foolhardy to try to predict the 2008 prospects based on ONE YEAR of data. All anyone needs to do is look at the data back to 2000 and it will be readily apparent that these trips hold great promise for rarities. Just look at May 26, 2000, May 24, 2003, and May 27, 2005 (to name a few), and you will get an idea. All three of these dates saw Bermuda Petrel (well) and in '03 and '05, both Fea's and Trindade Petrels were also seen the same day! At this point I would like to sell the remaining spaces over three days: May 24, 25, and 26, so that we don't run any of these trips at a loss. These trips are $145/person/day (same as last year!), but for persons taking two trips, we will discount it to $135/person/day and all three trips can be booked for $395. For groups of FIVE or more people booking together, the trips are $125/person/day, $240/person/two days or $350/person for all three days. I don't know if we will offer these trips next year. It doesn't make much sense to run them. For the last couple of years, we have operated them at just a slight profit, mainly as a service to our clients. Increasing charter fees make it more of a gamble, so I highly recommend taking advantage of this year's opportunity. (If you wait to long, it will all be gone, and you'll be sorry then.) As you know, this is prime time for a variety of seabirds, including shearwaters (up to five spp.), storm-petrels (three or more spp.), jaegers (three spp.), and Pterodroma petrels (up to four species possible, including Trindade, Fea's, Black-capped, and Bermuda Petrel.) Other possibilities include Red-billed Tropicbird and South Polar Skua. There might even be some Northern Gannets around nearshore. For the first time pelagic birder, there is a chance to see a dozen or more new species in one or two days and maybe 15 or more over three days! Even a veteran of these trips might see a lifer, with European Storm-Petrel a real possibility. Manteo, NC is an hour closer by road than Hatteras, and although it is farther from the Gulf Stream, the Country Girl is very fast, so running time in the boat is similar to a Hatteras trip. The boat has also been repowered with brand new Caterpillar Engines, which are quieter than the old motors and have very clean exhaust. Capt. Allan Foreman has run over a hundred trips for us over the years, and although I will be running my own boat those days (full trips), we will have three or four good leaders, including Todd McGrath to staff the Country Girl trips, as well as good chum for bringing the birds close. In relatively calm seas the boat is fast enough to keep pace with rarities not interested in our chum. These trips are a great opportunity at a great price. Please help spead the word for us. Best, Capt. Brian Patteson Stormy Petrel II Hatteras, NC brian AT patteson.com http://www.seabirding.com/ Subject: Need Five Persons for Hatteras Pelagic trip Saturday, April 26 From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:27:47 -0500 We are back from the boatyard and Coast Guard inspections and eager to get offshore. I had hoped to run at least a couple of birding trips this weekend, but registrations have been slow in coming. Neverthless we have a few people who are able to go this Saturday, but not quite enough to cover a trip yet. If we can get just five more registrants, we can run a trip. The forecast looks good, w/ light easterly winds, following the moderate easterlies we have now. This could bring in some goodies from the deep, such lots of migrating jaegers and rare gadfly petrels. There are also two April records of Yellow-nosed Albatross from Cape Hatteras. We haven't run any April pelagic birding trips here, so there are no lists on the website. Anyhow, based on years of spring fishing here, I think have a good chance to see the following: Black-capped Petrel, Northern Fulmar, Sooty Shearwater, Manx Shearwater, Audubon's Shearwater, Wilson's Storm-Petrel, Northern Gannet, Red Phalarope, and Pomarine Jaeger. There is also a reasonable chance for Leach's Storm-Petrel, Red-billed Tropicbird, Bridled Tern, Arctic Tern, Parasitic Jaeger, and Long-tailed Jaeger. I wouldn't even rule out finding a puffin if the Labrador Current is strong. While there are no records yet for April, I think it is possible that we could see Trindade Petrel, Fea's Petrel, or Bermuda Petrel. I've never spent much time in the deep (gadfly petrel) water during April while charter fishing, but the weather patterns are generally like mid to late May when we've had such good luck finding the rarer Pterodromas. I also think April could be better for some of the marine mammals, such as Sperm Whale. The fare is $145/person. We have not yet raised our rates from this winter, although fuel has gone up again. Please contact us ASAP if you would like to go in what could be a very interesting trip. You can reach me at (252) 986-1363 or (252) 473-9163. Best, Brian Patteson Hatteras, NC brian AT patteson.com http://www.seabirding.com/ Subject: Murphy’s Petrel, Parakeet Auklet, Tristram’s Storm-petrel From: "Terry Hunefeld" <sdbirdlover AT fastmail.fm> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 04:18:49 -0000 Greetings, Adventure Lovers I just learned by email that the May 3 Los Angeles Pelagic Trip from Santa Barbara on Condor Express is in danger of being cancelled because of insufficient deposits. We can't let that happen! This is the ONLY pelagic trip that runs to the San Juan Seamount, an underwater "mountain" with a substantial life-zone around it attracting all sorts of seabirds. No, we won't see all the birds listed in the subject line in this one trip. But the only way to see any of them is to be on the Condor Express May 3, because that's how they're seen. Do you have Murphy's Petrel checked on your list yet? How will you get it with out going with us to deep water? The spring Condor Express pelagic trip has a record for finding rarities. For example: seven PARAKEET AUKLETS were enjoyed by dozens of birders on 21 Apr 2007 thanks to this trip. Amazingly, less than 3 months after a TRISTRAM'S STORM-PETREL was captured and photographed on Southeast Farallon Island 22 April 2007, we saw one from The Condor Express July 21, 2007. The only way to have seen this super-mega-rarity was to be on that boat that day. Led by Todd McGrath and his gang, there is not a better way put yourself in line with a rarity than to be on the Condor Express on May 3 and go with us to the San Juan Seamount. Todd knows how to SNIFF OUT BIRDS. I know because I've been there. I've watched him. He is a magician. In fact, he is so good, I offered him double the salary that the L.A. Audubon pays him (and his gang) to lead the deep- water pelagics out of San Diego. I will be on-board the Condor Express on May 3, having mailed my payment last week for both Condor Express trips. I hope you're there, too. If you've been procrastinating, please don't hesitate any longer, or we could lose this wonderful, comfortable, one-day rarity-finding trip. If you read the trip policy below, you'll see that the trip could be cancelled 4 weeks prior to the trip if there is not enough interest. We are running out of time! Please call the Audubon today at 323.876.0202 or email peltrip AT laaudubon.org and let them know you are sending your check. Here is the link to the LA Audubon Pelagic Trip Page with full details: http://tinyurl.com/25yt4v Mail your check for Reservations and note: 1) The trip desired 2) Names of people in your party 3) Phone numbers: (a) usual and (b) evening before event, in case of cancellation. 4) Separate check (no cash please) to LAAS for exact amount for each trip. 5) Self-addressed stamped envelope for confirmation and associated trip information. Send to: Los Angeles Audubon - Reservations PO Box 931057 Los Angeles, CA 90093-1057 If there is insufficient response, the trip will be cancelled four weeks prior to the scheduled date. You will be so notified and your fee returned. Your cancellation after that time will bring a refund only if there is a paid replacement. Please call Audubon House at 323.876.0202 or email peltrip AT laaudubon.org Terry Hunefeld, San Diego currently on board NOAA research ship Miller Freeman off the coast of Washington & Oregon counting birds, what else is there? Life is short. Seabird often. http://www.SoCalBirding.com Pelagic Seabirding Trips From San Diego to: 9-mile Bank Los Coronados Islands Cortes & Tanner Banks Channel Islands THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BAD DAY AT SEA Subject: The SoCal Pelagic Birding Dream Season: Aug 25 - Sept 6 From: "Terry Hunefeld" <sdbirdlover AT fastmail.fm> Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:32:29 -0000 Greetings With the SoCalBirding July Deep-Water trip sold out, we added another trip in late August -- one of the best times of year to find both Cook's and Hawaiian Petrel (11 of 14 accepted records of Hawaiian Petrel in the state are June - September, and one was seen from Searcher in these waters 6 Sep 2006). THE SOCAL PELAGIC BIRDING DREAM SEASON: Aug 25 - Sept 6 There is wonderful 2-week pelagic birding "window" in Southern California this autumn - perhaps the first ever. Three excellent trips go out in 2 weeks. Rarities and very possibly mega-rarities will be seen on 1, 2 or all 3 of these trips. (1) Aug 25-27 SoCalBirding 1.5 day Tubenose Deepwater http://www.socalbirding.com/aug_25-27_2008_deep-water_tubenoses or http://tinyurl.com/2ca34w (2) Sep 1-5 5 Day Deep Water Expedition on Searcher http://www.socalbirding.com/sep_1-5_2008_searcher_5-day_expedition or http://tinyurl.com/28d8hf (3) Sep 6 Deep Water on Condor Express from Santa Barbara (Los Angeles Audubon) This trip departs from the Santa Barbara Harbor at 7:00 a.m. on the fast catamaran Condor Express and returns approximately at 8:00 p.m. Birds expected: Northern Fulmar; Cook's Petrel was seen in 2005; Ashy and Leach's storm-petrels; South Polar Skua; Parasitic, Pomarine and Long-tailed jaegers; Sabine's Gull; Arctic Tern. Red-billed Tropicbirds are usually seen on this trip. Rarities seen: Black-footed Albatross; Buller's Shearwater; Least Storm-Petrel and Craveri's Murrelet. http://tinyurl.com/25yt4v or http://www.laaudubon.org/ This is also the time of year that Ringed and Wedge-rumped Storm- petrels have been seen in SoCal waters. The only North American record for Ringed Storm-petrel was photographed on 2 Aug 2005, 40 km ssw of Santa Rosa Island. Least Storm-petrels show up in August. Late summer is the "sweet spot" for Craveri's Murrelet as well as the hypoleucas sub-species of Xantus's. 6 of the 9 records for Cal of Greater Shearwater are from Aug-Sep. Mega-rarties? A Streaked Shearwater was seen in SoCal waters near Santa Cruz Island on September 7, 2002. Most Cal Wedge-tailed Shearwater sightings are from August - December. A Tristram's Storm-petrel was seen in SoCal deep water last summer on July 21, 2007. Ten records of Red-footed Boobies have been accepted in SoCal, most from July - Oct. Terry Hunefeld, San Diego on board NOAA research ship Miller Freeman off the coast of Washington & Oregon Life is short. Bird often. http://www.SoCalBirding.com Pelagic Seabirding Trips From San Diego to: 9-mile Bank Los Coronados Islands Cortes & Tanner Banks Channel Islands Subject: May 3 LAAS Deepwater Pelagic from Santa Barbara From: "toddamcgrath" <toddamcgrath AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:18:53 -0000 Birders, There are still spaces left on The Los Angeles Audubon spring deepwater trip. Last year's trip featured Parakeet Auklets, and past trips have produced rarities like Murphy's and Dark-rumped Petrels. This is one of my favorite trips of the year, and early May is a fine time to be sabirding in Southern California. Xantus's Murrelets are breeding on the Chaneel Islands, and we are likely to encounter them in numbers are we proceed out to sea. All 3 Jaegers are possible, and spring is an excellent time to look for Albatrosses (Laysan can be present is small numbers, and Black-footed is seen every year). This trip will make a special effort to locate Murphy's Petrels, which are not present every spring, but can be present in small numbers. Our vessel is the ultra-fast, extremely comfortable Condor Express. This catmaran features a spacious and comfortable cabin, full galley, and excellent viewing from both the upper and lower decks. We will be adequately supplied with popcorn, fish, squid, beef suet, and cod liver oil, to try and bring the birds in close. I hope you can join us on what is always a memorable trip. Please e- mail me if you have any questions. The information on signing-up is listed below, the price is $198. Please act soon, as this trip has sold out the last several years. Todd McGrath SKUA AT MSN.COM Marina Del Rey, CA Saturday, May 3 A deep water trip toward the San Juan Seamount. This trip departs from the Santa Barbara Harbor on the fast catamaran Condor Express at 7:00 a.m., and will return approximately by 8:00 p.m. We will cruise along the deep water shelf by the San Juan Seamount. Birds previously seen: Laysan and Black-footed albatross; Northern Fulmar; Sooty and Pink-footed shearwaters: Parasitic, Pomarine and Long-tailed jaegers; Ashy, Leach's and Fork-tailed storm- petrels; Pigeon Guillemot; Xantus Murrelet; Cassin's and Rhinoceros auklets; Tufted Puffin. Rare possibilities are Murphy's Petrel and Red-billed Tropicbird. Leaders: Todd McGrath, Jon Feenstra, Kimball Garrett, Dave Compton and David Pereksta. $198. There is a complete galley that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner. PELAGIC RESERVATION POLICY AND PROCEDURE Please call Audubon House at 323.876.0202 or email peltrip AT laaudubon.org questions or concerns. 2008 PELAGIC SCHEDULE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Reservations will be accepted ONLY if ALL the following information is supplied: 1) Trip desired 2) Names of people in your party 3) Phone numbers: (a) usual and (b) evening before event, in case of cancellation. 4) Separate check (no cash please) to LAAS for exact amount for each trip. 5) Self-addressed stamped envelope for confirmation and associated trip information. Send to: Los Angeles Audubon - Reservations PO Box 931057 Los Angeles, CA 90093-1057 If there is insufficient response, the trip will be cancelled four weeks prior to the scheduled date. You will be so notified and your fee returned. Your cancellation after that time will bring a refund only if there is a paid replacement. REFUND POLICY FOR PELAGIC TRIPS If a participant cancels 31 days or more prior to departure, a $5 service charge will be deducted from the refund. There is no participant refund if requested fewer than 30 days before departure, unless there is a paid replacement available. Call LAAS for a possible replacement. Please do not offer the trip to a friend as it would be unfair to those on the waiting list. All pelagic trips must be filled 35 days prior to sailing. Please reserve early Subject: Possible Cape Gannet in Mediterranean From: "Andy Paterson" <andy.birds AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:44:20 +0100 Hi: This afternoon (27/03/1550Z), armed only with 10x42 binoculars as there was a force 6-W wind, in front of the Guadalhorce reserve, just W of Málaga city, S Spain, a group of several Gannets Morus bassanus were feeding close inshore, at ranges of 75-150m. One of these caught my attention as it was so obviously different to the others (these being 1 ad. with still white head, 3-4 imms. of several ages including 2 with a distinct yellowish tinge to the head, and 2 first summer birds changing plumage). The bird in question was in view at ranges between 500 and <100m for about 4 minutes before the whole group moved off W in the Gibraltar direction. - The tail was totally black, no white rectrices visible. - All primaries and their coverts were black with the exception of the white alula marking (obviously). - All secondaries were black, there was not one white one visible. - All upper wing coverts were white with no black visible, and neither was there any black in the dorsal area, the whole lot being persil white - The head showed a pale yellowish tinge and it was obviously not possible to examine the gular region (it would probably have been impossible even with the scope with the wind strength). - In direct comparison it appeared slightly smaller than the other birds and the flight was notably lighter and somewhat more erratic (all were because of the strong wind!) with a somewhat more rapid wing beat rate, in as much as it could be ascertained. It was impossible to get a half-way decent look at the under wing because of the erratic flight caused by the strong wind. We had several birds of this type in the western Mediterranean in the 1980s and early 90s, indeed I saw 3or 4 myself and supplied descriptions to the Spanish Rarities Committee. All in all, my own thinking is that in all probability I was looking at a Cape Gannet and not a retarded plumage type 4. Note that Nick Riddiford and myself published a short note on this subject in British Birds back around 1990. I have been looking at Gannets and their plumages for years too. Interesting, isn't it? All comments are very welcome! Saludos, Andy Paterson Torremolinos, España [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Boats and Birding: A General Statement From: Robert Wallace <chnuts AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Brian - would love to hear about your trip to the South Atlantic - ought to be fascinating reading for all of us stuck inland for the winter and not out on the seas. Looking forward to your trips this spring - where else can anyone in the US get a chance at 4 Pterodromas in one day, or Black-bellied Storm Petrel, Cape Verde Shearwater, Bulwer's Petrel, or an albatross? Not to mention all of the other more "common" species like Great and South Polar Skua, both tropicbirds, 4 other shearwaters, 3 storm petrels, etc etc. Hope to see you in June, Bob Wallace Alachua FL ----- Original Message ---- From: J. BRIAN PATTESON To: PELAGICS Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:57:01 AM Subject: [pelagics] Boats and Birding: A General Statement Hello Pelagickers, I am just back from the South Atlantic and I've had a chance to read all my e-mail. This is not an attempt to reopen a defunct thread. Nor was it my intention to initiate a firefight earlier this month, but I wouldn't have christened my boat the Stormy Petrel II if I was the type to ignore non-constructive and ill-informed critical remarks. My thinking about this group (and free spreech) is that anyone should cerainly be allowed his or her own opinion, but I do think people should think about what they post before sending it out for worldwide distribution. It was not my intent to suggest that someone should not be allowed to post an opinion. There are consequences, both for the poster and others. A big problem w/ the Internet is that people post messages as if they were perhaps babbling on the telephone with friends, with little or no thought about the impact of what has been said to a large and sometimes naive audience, which includes not only list members but web surfers. I have said before that it doesn't matter so much which boat you take for a pelagic trip as long as it is well-maintained and skippered by a careful and competent captain. Most of the boats used for pelagic birding in the USA, including ours, are subject to rigorous annual inspections by the US Coast Guard, and every two years there is a drydock inspection to assess the hull and running gear. Boats vary as to how they take spray, whether running or drifting. Our boat is a wet runner, but fairly dry when drifting or idling along. Other boats which have lower decks are wetter on the drift. Sometimes one day at sea is not sufficient to judge the attributes or seaworthiness of a particular vessel, especially if it was the maiden voyage on a particular boat on a notably rough day. Boats are an intergal part of pelagic birding, so not to discuss them on this listserve w/ a bit of detail makes no sense. And as far as boats go, there are always trade-offs. Most boats which go upsea well do not run fast downsea. They plunge into it. Boats which will run fast downsea will jump up onto headseas instead of slicing through. Head seas and beam seas typically generate varying amounts of spray depending on the wind and speed of the vessel. Some participants on trips are seemingly impervious to this annoyance (especailly when properly attired) while others hide in the cabin. "Res ipsa loquitur." Did I spell that right? I think we should enjoy the abundant opportunities we have in this age to go offshore and study seabirds. Rising expenses make it difficult to operate these trips and keep them affordable, so we need to support all of the trips run by those who care about learning more about our endangered marine birds. For some species, records from pelagic trips constitute an important part of the available body of knowledge. Most operators I know these days keep fairly detailed records of their trips, including transects and information about weather and sea conditions. We have done so since beginning this endeavor many years ago. I think it is a shame that there isn't a bit more discussion on this list and others about seabirds. I haven't checked to see how many members there are presently, but many people are missing out on an opportunity to talk about birds, birding and boats. Brian Patteson Hatteras, NC brian AT patteson. com http://www.seabirdi ng.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Boats and Birding: A General Statement From: "J. BRIAN PATTESON" <patteson1 AT embarqmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:57:01 -0500 Hello Pelagickers, I am just back from the South Atlantic and I've had a chance to read all my e-mail. This is not an attempt to reopen a defunct thread. Nor was it my intention to initiate a firefight earlier this month, but I wouldn't have christened my boat the Stormy Petrel II if I was the type to ignore non-constructive and ill-informed critical remarks. My thinking about this group (and free spreech) is that anyone should cerainly be allowed his or her own opinion, but I do think people should think about what they post before sending it out for worldwide distribution. It was not my intent to suggest that someone should not be allowed to post an opinion. There are consequences, both for the poster and others. A big problem w/ the Internet is that people post messages as if they were perhaps babbling on the telephone with friends, with little or no thought about the impact of what has been said to a large and sometimes naive audience, which includes not only list members but web surfers. I have said before that it doesn't matter so much which boat you take for a pelagic trip as long as it is well-maintained and skippered by a careful and competent captain. Most of the boats used for pelagic birding in the USA, including ours, are subject to rigorous annual inspections by the US Coast Guard, and every two years there is a drydock inspection to assess the hull and running gear. Boats vary as to how they take spray, whether running or drifting. Our boat is a wet runner, but fairly dry when drifting or idling along. Other boats which have lower decks are wetter on the drift. Sometimes one day at sea is not sufficient to judge the attributes or seaworthiness of a particular vessel, especially if it was the maiden voyage on a particular boat on a notably rough day. Boats are an intergal part of pelagic birding, so not to discuss them on this listserve w/ a bit of detail makes no sense. And as far as boats go, there are always trade-offs. Most boats which go upsea well do not run fast downsea. They plunge into it. Boats which will run fast downsea will jump up onto headseas instead of slicing through. Head seas and beam seas typically generate varying amounts of spray depending on the wind and speed of the vessel. Some participants on trips are seemingly impervious to this annoyance (especailly when properly attired) while others hide in the cabin. "Res ipsa loquitur." Did I spell that right? I think we should enjoy the abundant opportunities we have in this age to go offshore and study seabirds. Rising expenses make it difficult to operate these trips and keep them affordable, so we need to support all of the trips run by those who care about learning more about our endangered marine birds. For some species, records from pelagic trips constitute an important part of the available body of knowledge. Most operators I know these days keep fairly detailed records of their trips, including transects and information about weather and sea conditions. We have done so since beginning this endeavor many years ago. I think it is a shame that there isn't a bit more discussion on this list and others about seabirds. I haven't checked to see how many members there are presently, but many people are missing out on an opportunity to talk about birds, birding and boats. Brian Patteson Hatteras, NC brian AT patteson.com http://www.seabirding.com/ Subject: Laysan Albatrosses: March 1, 2008 trip report From: "thebirdguide" <greg AT thebirdguide.com> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:01:24 -0000 We found several of our target birds--LAYSAN ALBATROSS--on 1 March 2008 on our Perpetua Bank, Oregon trip. We also glimpsed a MANX SHEARWATER. Read the trip report and view the photos at: http://thebirdguide.com/pelagics/archive/03012008.htm LAYSAN ALBATROSS trip: 19 APRIL 2008 Our next trip also has Laysan Albatross as a target species. This seems to be a good winter for them, with many reports from Oregon and Washington. This date also has a good chance for rarites. Typical birds include Black-footed Albatross, Fork-tailed Storm- Petrel, Cassin's and Rhinoceros Auklets. For more details: http://thebirdguide.com/pelagics/ For a semi-monthly abundance chart: http://thebirdguide.com/pelagics/bar_chart.htm Greg Gillson greg AT thebirdguide.com Subject: San Diego Pelagic Trip Report - Los Coronados Islands From: "Terry Hunefeld" <sdbirdlover AT fastmail.fm> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:58:28 -0000 Greetings No sooner were we out of San Diego harbor than 60 participants watched a Parasitic Jaeger pursue a tern up, down , sideways and upside down in an amazing display of aerial acrobatics. By all accounts, Saturday's maiden pelagic-birding charter from San Diego on the 85 foot live-aboard Grande was a smashing success featuring 5 flavors of tubenoses, 3 species of alcids, nearly two- dozen boobies, 14 Gray Whales, 8 species of gulls, both jaegers (putting on shows), hundreds of Common Dolphin and dozens of Pacific White-sided Dolphin. We had just pulled away from the Point Loma Sportfishing landing, and – holy cow! – a White-winged Scoter. Grande zig-zagged out to the Nine-mile Bank following feeding frenzies along the way. Throughout the morning we enjoyed close-up looks at multiple Northern Fulmar, Pink-footed, Sooty, Black-vented and Short-tailed Shearwaters. Full-spooned Pomarine Jaegers were in abundance. Following the bank down into Mexico and south across Coronado Canyon we found our first Xantus's Murrelets. The aromatic scents of the Chum-O-Matic coaxed more shearwater, fulmar and a booby to the boat even before we reached the Coronados Islands where we found 20 more Brown Boobies and 22 oystercatchers (including one hybrid). On the return trip from the islands, the popcorn-gorging gull flock lured a Brown Booby to within 3 miles of the U.S. border. Highlight of the day included: A booby repeatedly pacing the boat 10 to 15 feet above delighted onlookers on the stern. A Gray Whale that surfaced unexpectedly 15 feet off the starboard side of Grande. Incredible close-up views of Pink-footed Shearwaters. Rhino auklets everywhere. Three fulmar at a time circling the boat (they could SMELL that Chum- O-Matic chum and WANTED IT). Hundreds of Common Dolphin completely surrounding the boat, leaping out of the water. The biggest mola-mola that many of us had EVER seen. Multiple Short-tailed Shearwater twisting and banking. The weather was warm, breezy and sunny. Many participants made use of Grande's generous outdoor seating, enjoying the fresh breezes and sunshine. Others lounged in Grande's comfortable salon enjoying the mouthwatering hamburgers and burritos being served up by the galley. The next two Grande charter pelagic birding trips sail on May 10 (a double-header). We expect to add multiple species of Storm-petrels into the mix plus tropicbirds, albatross and pterodroma on the deep water portion to the edge of the continental shelf. More info at http://www.socalbirding.com/ The June 5-day deep-water expedition on Searcher offers the best opportunity for rarities and mega-rarities on the west coast because we'll be out for four solid days (more than 50 daylight birdable hours) in both the Channel Islands and in deep water at the edge of the continental shelf. More info at http://www.socalbirding.com/ THE USA (SAN DIEGO) LIST 12 Brant 190 Surf Scoter 1 White-winged Scoter 4 Pacific Loon 4 Common Loon 10 Western/Clark's Grebe 6 Northern Fulmar 1 Pink-footed Shearwater 2 Sooty Shearwater 1 Short-tailed Shearwater 2 Black-vented Shearwater 115 Brown Pelican 75 Brandt's Cormorant 1 Double-crested Cormorant 1 Wandering Tattler 1 Black Turnstone 15 Bonaparte's Gull 5 Heermann's Gull 2 Mew Gull 1 Ring-billed Gull 15 California Gull 350 Western Gull 2 Glaucous-winged Gull 1 Caspian Tern 12 Forster's Tern 5 Royal Tern 18 Elegant Tern 5 Pomarine Jaegers 3 Parasitic Jaegers 3 Pom/Par Jaegers 32 Rhinoceros Auklets THE MEXICO (BAJA NORTE) LIST 4 Surf Scoter 7 Northern Fulmar 3 Pink-footed Shearwater 4 Sooty Shearwater 3 Short-tailed Shearwater 4 Sooty/Short-tailed Shearwater 21 Brown Booby 750 Brown Pelican 1100 Brandt's Cormorant 1 Double-crested Cormorant 5 Pelagic Cormorant 1 American Kestrel 1 Peregrine Falcon 1 Red Phalarope 21 Black Oystercatcher 1 Hybrid Am/Black Oystercatcher 2 Bonaparte's Gull 3 Heermann's Gull 1 Mew Gull 2 American Herring Gull 10 California Gull 1500 Western Gull 2 Glaucous-winged Gull 6 Elegant Tern 2 Pomarine Jaegers 9 Xantus's Murrelet 2 Cassin's Auklet 35 Rhinoceros Auklets 1 House Finch W. Terry Hunefeld, Leucadia Life is short. Bird often. http://www.SoCalBirding.com Pelagic Seabirding Trips From San Diego to: 9-mile Bank Los Coronados Islands Cortes & Tanner Banks Channel Islands Subject: Re: Closing the issue of the boat From: "John Hansen" <majorhart AT sbcglobal.net> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:14:05 -0500 You're welcome. By John Hansen majorhart AT sbcglobal.net http://marketplace-central.com - OK to forward ----- Original Message ----- From: jnie400959 AT aol.com To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [pelagics] Closing the issue of the boat Thanks John: Joe Nielsen **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Closing the issue of the boat From: jnie400959 AT aol.com Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:55:31 EDT Thanks John: Joe Nielsen **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: I'm outta here From: Nate Dias <offshorebirder AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:37:18 -0700 (PDT) I am fed up with this increasingly ridiculous list (and its owner). See y'all over on Seabird-News (or on the high seas). Keep it up John - soon you will be talking only to yourself. Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC ---------- Subject: Chris Sloan From: "John Hansen" Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:39:48 -0500 Chris Sloan has been removed at his request. I might let him come back later if he wants - if he understands better the need to keep peace on a list - it's better for everyone. Thanks By John Hansen majorhart AT sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: Closing the issue of the boat From: "Chris Sloan" Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:21:21 -0000 --- In pelagics AT yahoogroups.com, "majorhart2000" wrote: > > A couple of people haven't dropped the boat dicussion after a full > airing of the discussion [SNIP] The problem is that the discussion was nowhere near a "full one". You yourself stated previously that you had blocked posts both pro and con previously. I can only assume that mine was one of them, although you gave me no notice of that fact nor did you respond to my message to you asking for a minor edit to the post. Why were these posts blocked? They were seemingly on-topic, and my post was nothing other than my own observations from Brian's boat as a fairly experienced pelagic observer with 45+ days at sea, including many with Brian. My post included not a single negative statement about the poster, just my own personal (but contrary) opinions. That level of censorship was not, in my opinion, appropriate. The original poster (with whom I strongly disagree, both with his statements and his manner of delivery) was given not one, but two opportunities to make the same negative statements with zero explanation. Another poster stated that they appreciated the "heads- up," although about what I'm not clear, since as noted no explanation was given. Only one poster other than Brian was allowed to express a positive view of the boat. Why? If you want to close down a thread, then that's fine, but the proper way to do it (as has been done on many other bird-related lists) is to give notice of when the thread closes, allow anyone else with an on-topic response to have their say, and THEN start blocking posts. Arbitrarily doing so without allowing a full discussion and with no notice is just flat wrong. Mr. Hansen, I generally enjoy reading this list, but I do not believe that you exercised your moderation rights appropriately in this case. I hope this doesn't end up putting me in moderation, but if that is your decision, then please just save yourself the trouble and remove me altogether. Chris Sloan Nashville, TN ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Subject: Chris Sloan From: "John Hansen" <majorhart AT sbcglobal.net> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:39:48 -0500 Chris Sloan has been removed at his request. I might let him come back later if he wants - if he understands better the need to keep peace on a list - it's better for everyone. Thanks By John Hansen majorhart AT sbcglobal.net http://marketplace-central.com - OK to forward [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Closing the issue of the boat From: "Chris Sloan" <chris.sloan AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:21:21 -0000 --- In pelagics AT yahoogroups.com, "majorhart2000" wrote: > > A couple of people haven't dropped the boat dicussion after a full > airing of the discussion [SNIP] The problem is that the discussion was nowhere near a "full one". You yourself stated previously that you had blocked posts both pro and con previously. I can only assume that mine was one of them, although you gave me no notice of that fact nor did you respond to my message to you asking for a minor edit to the post. Why were these posts blocked? They were seemingly on-topic, and my post was nothing other than my own observations from Brian's boat as a fairly experienced pelagic observer with 45+ days at sea, including many with Brian. My post included not a single negative statement about the poster, just my own personal (but contrary) opinions. That level of censorship was not, in my opinion, appropriate. The original poster (with whom I strongly disagree, both with his statements and his manner of delivery) was given not one, but two opportunities to make the same negative statements with zero explanation. Another poster stated that they appreciated the "heads- up," although about what I'm not clear, since as noted no explanation was given. Only one poster other than Brian was allowed to express a positive view of the boat. Why? If you want to close down a thread, then that's fine, but the proper way to do it (as has been done on many other bird-related lists) is to give notice of when the thread closes, allow anyone else with an on-topic response to have their say, and THEN start blocking posts. Arbitrarily doing so without allowing a full discussion and with no notice is just flat wrong. Mr. Hansen, I generally enjoy reading this list, but I do not believe that you exercised your moderation rights appropriately in this case. I hope this doesn't end up putting me in moderation, but if that is your decision, then please just save yourself the trouble and remove me altogether. Chris Sloan Nashville, TN Subject: Re: Brian's boat,etc From: "John Hansen" <majorhart AT sbcglobal.net> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:54:59 -0500 I bet Johnny Walker could do it. Er - is New York warm yet? By John Hansen majorhart AT sbcglobal.net http://marketplace-central.com - OK to forward ----- Original Message ----- From: jnie400959 AT aol.com To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [pelagics] Brian's boat,etc In a message dated 3/10/2008 8:43:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, majorhart AT sbcglobal.net writes: We could all go out and get drunk. I tried to do that very thing today. Majorhart: you ever in NYC look me up I will buy you that drink -- you are the first person to make any sense of the fiasco --- let me know your pleasure and I will be certain to have a supply on hand Johnny Walker Blue is good for what ails you now!!! Best to you, Joen **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Closing the issue of the boat From: "majorhart2000" <majorhart AT sbcglobal.net> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:52:59 -0000 Hi. Over 6 years we've had a great relationship on this list and I'm not going to let any issue sour that - and in fact - bore others. A couple of people haven't dropped the boat dicussion after a full airing of the discussion - I have placed a couple on moderation (hopefully temporatily) and will remove anyone continuing in this discussion. Let't get back to the birds and pelagics now. That subject is closed - permanently. This is not a judgement of the issue - if someone wants to open their own list to discuss it fine. It doesn't belong here. Thanks for your understanding. John Hansen -listowner Subject: Re: Great Skua--Hopefully the last on this thread From: "John Hansen" <majorhart AT sbcglobal.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:06:38 -0500 It's time to drop this subject. By John Hansen majorhart AT sbcglobal.net http://marketplace-central.com - OK to forward ----- Original Message ----- From: jnie400959 AT aol.com To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [pelagics] Great Skua--Hopefully the last on this thread In a message dated 3/9/2008 8:11:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Jbodgers AT aol.com writes: I have apologized to everyone offended by my post. I have been in touch with the listserve owner who advised that my post was not THAT bad and told me he had disallowed several posts, pro and con, in the interest of harmony. As a birding guide myself, I am aware of the damage I may have done to Brian and I regret it deeply. Still, I have to say that to express an opinion should not be condemned out of hand. If it is, this is a sad day for America. Cheers! John John: to express an opinion is fine but you must choose the appropriate "soapbox". our opinion it seems was directed at Brian and therefore was a personal comment and in my opinion has no place in this forum. For the "owner" to condone your message is unfortunate because he has opened the door now for anyone else who may have a "bone to pick with someone". Since you are tour director yourself it seems to me that before you sent the original message you certainly were aware of (and perhaps planned) the damage it might cause. Don't expect me, or others to think there was not some hidden agenda behind your criticism. Be assured I would now think twice before joining any tour you might lead. Unfortunately by opening the door in the first place you have no right to expect to have the last word. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Brian's boat,etc From: jnie400959 AT aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:01:43 EDT In a message dated 3/10/2008 8:43:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, majorhart AT sbcglobal.net writes: We could all go out and get drunk. I tried to do that very thing today. Majorhart: you ever in NYC look me up I will buy you that drink -- you are the first person to make any sense of the fiasco --- let me know your pleasure and I will be certain to have a supply on hand Johnny Walker Blue is good for what ails you now!!! Best to you, Joen **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Brian's boat,etc From: "John Hansen" <majorhart AT sbcglobal.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:43:19 -0500 We could all go out and get drunk. I tried to do that very thing today. I'd just like some warm weather so we can go to the county. We've had the coldest winter anywhere we've been including 3 days without power. arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! Boise Idaho has been consistently warmer this year than Kansas City By John Hansen majorhart AT sbcglobal.net http://marketplace-central.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jbodgers AT aol.com To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 5:17 PM Subject: [pelagics] Brian's boat,etc Hi all, I have have received comments over the listserve and privately and don't know how to say i'm sorry, more than I have. It occurred to me that I should mention that I got my 700th, 701st amd 702nd from Brians boat a few years ago. By all means, book for Memorial Day Weekend! How could I want to hurt this guy? Cheers! John **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Brian's boat,etc From: Jbodgers AT aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:17:29 EDT Hi all, I have have received comments over the listserve and privately and don't know how to say i'm sorry, more than I have. It occurred to me that I should mention that I got my 700th, 701st amd 702nd from Brians boat a few years ago. By all means, book for Memorial Day Weekend! How could I want to hurt this guy? Cheers! John **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: Great Skua--Hopefully the last on this thread From: jnie400959 AT aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:34:47 EDT In a message dated 3/9/2008 8:11:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Jbodgers AT aol.com writes: I have apologized to everyone offended by my post. I have been in touch with the listserve owner who advised that my post was not THAT bad and told me he had disallowed several posts, pro and con, in the interest of harmony. As a birding guide myself, I am aware of the damage I may have done to Brian and I regret it deeply. Still, I have to say that to express an opinion should not be condemned out of hand. If it is, this is a sad day for America. Cheers! John John: to express an opinion is fine but you must choose the appropriate "soapbox". our opinion it seems was directed at Brian and therefore was a personal comment and in my opinion has no place in this forum. For the "owner" to condone your message is unfortunate because he has opened the door now for anyone else who may have a "bone to pick with someone". Since you are tour director yourself it seems to me that before you sent the original message you certainly were aware of (and perhaps planned) the damage it might cause. Don't expect me, or others to think there was not some hidden agenda behind your criticism. Be assured I would now think twice before joining any tour you might lead. Unfortunately by opening the door in the first place you have no right to expect to have the last word. **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Great Skua--Hopefully the last on this thread From: Jbodgers AT aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:10:26 EDT I have apologized to everyone offended by my post. I have been in touch with the listserve owner who advised that my post was not THAT bad and told me he had disallowed several posts, pro and con, in the interest of harmony. As a birding guide myself, I am aware of the damage I may have done to Brian and I regret it deeply. Still, I have to say that to express an opinion should not be condemned out of hand. If it is, this is a sad day for America. Cheers! John **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Sorry, my last post was meant to be private Re: RFI--Great Skua From: Birders2 AT aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 03:02:38 EDT Hi to the group, SORRY! I did not check my send to when I hit the reply key, My post was meant for Jim Hayes ONLY. Great birding and find that next lifer, John (One of Birders2) John + Irma = 2, we are birders, too. John C. LeVine Birders2 AT aol.com Los Angeles, CA -*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* "Whatever the reason for this particular bird's presence, I am delighted to have …(it)…sharing our bit of earth." -*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From David Kline's "Scratching the Woodchuck - Nature on an Amish Farm" -*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: RFI--Great Skua Defense of John From: Birders2 AT aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 01:56:03 EST Dear Jim, John's tone may not have been the best, but I believe that one should be able to post complaints and well as praises to list. I like Brian and have been on his boats in the past and even with the information obtained from John post and Brian's public reply, Brian will probably be my first choice in the future, but I now have a heads-up, especially since I have a spouse who had problems with the Country Girl. And yes, I understand Brian's need to make a living since I am self-employed, too; but just as I expect my customers to be informed about the quality of my service, I feel Brian should also. Great birding and find that next lifer, John (One of Birders2) John + Irma = 2, we are birders, too. John C. LeVine Birders2 AT aol.com Los Angeles, CA ...the ivory bill can help us see ourselves as we really are, torn between our own desire to be free -- to shoot and develop and cut down and expand -- and the desire to live among free things that can only survive only if we are less free. ************************************************************************ The Life of the Skies by Jonathan Rosen **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: RFI--Great Skua From: "John Hansen" <majorhart AT sbcglobal.net> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 21:25:03 -0600 Probably that type of message should be sent privately - you can get the email address by right clicking on the message and then properties Thanks John Hansen -listowner By John Hansen majorhart AT sbcglobal.net http://marketplace-central.com - OK to forward ----- Original Message ----- From: James Hays To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [pelagics] RFI--Great Skua >I like Brian Patteson and I owe many good life birds to him. The problem is >his new boat which has too many problems to list. Suffice to say, an ABA >800er and I noted at least 20 such problems and deemed the craft unseaworthy. > >I need this bird but am unwilling to go out on that boat again. > >Any suggestions? Either spell out your problems or keep them to yourself! Messages like this don't belong on this list. -- Jim Hays -- *************************************************************************** Jim Hays Tucson AZ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: RFI--Great Skua From: James Hays <jhays AT iname.com> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:18:36 -0700 >I like Brian Patteson and I owe many good life birds to him. The problem is >his new boat which has too many problems to list. Suffice to say, an ABA >800er and I noted at least 20 such problems and deemed the craft unseaworthy. > >I need this bird but am unwilling to go out on that boat again. > >Any suggestions? Either spell out your problems or keep them to yourself! Messages like this don't belong on this list. -- Jim Hays -- *************************************************************************** Jim Hays Tucson AZ Subject: RFI--Great Skua From: Jbodgers AT aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 20:16:56 EST I like Brian Patteson and I owe many good life birds to him. The problem is his new boat which has too many problems to list. Suffice to say, an ABA 800er and I noted at least 20 such problems and deemed the craft unseaworthy. I need this bird but am unwilling to go out on that boat again. Any suggestions? Thanks and Cheers! John Odgers, Mission, TX **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Announcement - THE REDISCOVERY OF BECK'S PETREL! From: Tony Pym <tony_pym AT hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 06:04:34 +0000 Many will remember, a few years back, the at-sea claimed record of a Beck’s Petrel from the Coral Sea off Queensland. Although lauded in the press the Birds Australia Records Committee subsequently did not accept this record. Since then, birds resembling Beck’s Petrels were seen by those on the Western Pacific Odyssey cruise in 2007. Hadoram Shirihai has now published the indisputable rediscovery of Beck’s Petrel. The formal announcement has awaited the publication of his important paper, published yesterday in the Bulletin of the British Ornithologists Club. Hadoram’s fieldwork in 2003 and 2007 was in the Northern Solomon and Bismarck Seas off Papua New Guinea. Beck’s Petrel has been considered ‘maybe extinct’ (Bretagnolle et al. 1998), ‘exceedingly rare’ (Brooke 2004), and is treated by BirdLife International (2004) as Critically Endangered. Hadoram has found a substantial population (up to 30 seen in a day and 16 at any one time, and often with Tahiti Petrels for direct comparison, side by side). A suspected breeding locality for Beck’s Petrel has been found, based on the birds’ behaviour and indicated by recently fledged juveniles. A freshly dead, and recently fledged, juvenile was salvaged at sea (which is now lodged at NHM, Tring) which becomes the third specimen only, and the first since Rollo Beck’s of 1928 and 1929. The paper gives full co-ordinates for all sightings and notable is the hotspot of southernmost New Ireland from where post-breeding moulting adults and juveniles were seen. This Pseudobulweria is fundamentally identical to Tahiti Petrel P. rostrata, except in size. Full measurements of the new specimen are given and the fieldwork confirmed becki as being up to 20% smaller than Tahiti Petrel with a visibly shorter wingspan and narrower wing. The jizz and flight is described in the paper to help with future field identification and, importantly, there are good photos of a juvenile in flight and an immature/adult (on moult limits). The taxon appears to warrant specific status but has in the past also been considered a race of Tahiti Petrel. Vincent Bretagnolle et al are now underway with molecular studies of both becki and rostrata. This refinding of Beck’s Petrel is exceptional news and congratulations go to Hadoram Shirihai for his effort and energy in rediscovering this ‘lost’ petrel. Tony Pym _________________________________________________________________ Share what Santa brought you https://www.mycooluncool.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pelagics/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:pelagics-digest AT yahoogroups.com mailto:pelagics-fullfeatured AT yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: pelagics-unsubscribe AT yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Subject: Re: Stormy Petrel II (strong endorsement) From: Swmavocet AT aol.com Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 01:49:07 -0500 I've never met Mr. Odgers and don't know his possible motivations for "bad mouthing" the Stormy Petrel II.? However, after taking a set of three trips on this boat last May?with Brian, Kate, Steve Howell, etc., I think I'm qualified to comment on the subject.? My base of comparison are the at least eight different boats I've used for pelagics out of AL, TX, FL, NC, VA, OR, and CA, over the past 15 years. Bottomline:? SP2 is an EXCELLENT pelagic boat!!!? There are plenty of seats, more than adequate bathrooms, wide walkways, a large second story observation deck, and decent speed among other positive features.? The boat is not huge but in my book this is an advantage as it keeps the crowd smaller and the boat faster and more manuverable when it needs to be. Day 1 of my set was following passage of a weather system with strong easterly winds most of the day.? I doubt many other captains would have taken a group out in ANY boat of similar size in the chop and swells present that day.? However, Brian knew his boat's capabilities and used them to maximum advantage.? Yes, I got wet but that was MY choice.? I wanted to be outside and see birds since this was perfect weather for petrel/shearwater dynamic soaring.? There were birds everywhere!? At one point late in the morning I relaxed and just tried to drink in all the seabird activity taking place off the stern.? Truly spectacular!? It was better than many gulf coast landbird 'fallouts' I've encountered!? If Brian had not been using SP2, I truly doubt we would have started or certainly completed the trip that day.? Despite the conditions, I don't remember any bow slams or uncontrolled rolls.? Both of these seem inevitable on other boats I've been on in relatively rough conditions.? I can't say how much of the?controlled ride?was due to the boat and how much was due to Brian's captain skills.? It?really matters little because the combination?provided this paying customer with all he?asked for and more! Days 2 and 3 were much calmer and everyone stayed dry except for sweat.? The boat was plenty fast to motor out to the?Gulf Stream quickly?providing many hours of trolling and?searching.??Howell on the observation deck was unbeatable in?not only picking out?birds at the horizon but identifying them before most people on the boat could even locate the distant?speck.? I wholeheartedly support Brian, Kate, et al., in the work they do and their business and I look forward to taking more trips with them and the SP2 in the near future.? I recommend their trips without hesitation to any true pelagic birder. Steve McConnell Hartselle, AL -----Original Message----- From: Kate Sutherland To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 9:20 pm Subject: [pelagics] Stormy Petrel II (Reply to John Odgers post) I felt that the message from John Odgers about Great Skua needed to be forwarded to Brian. I am posting this message for him as he is currently on a Cape to Cape tour in the Southern Ocean. Thank you, Kate Sutherland (Seabirding) From Brian Patteson, currently in the Southern Ocean. John Odgers wrote the following after publicly bashing my boat, which happens to be the source of my livelihood and something I take a lot of pride in. "Sorry, Brian, I don't really mean to bad mouth you here. I know your trips occassionally get the bird and that's great. I just have to follow my heart.Cheers! John" John, I'm sorry you don't like our boat, but there are plenty of people who do. Keep in mind that you were aboard for one of the roughest trips we have ever run on her, which would have been a Hell Ride on any boat. It also happened to be the first trip we ran with her, really the first day I had her in much of a sea. Since you were aboard, we have made a few improvements and we also pay close attention to the courses we run, although there is no denying she is a wet runner in choppy seas. But she is a great swell boat and drifts and runs upsea much better than a variety of boats which we have chartered for trips here in the past. She is not fast, but to judge her performance on a day like we had when we could not run her at her regular cruise because of fuel problems and heavy seas is not a fair judgment. I have basically committed my life to running birding and fishing charters and to see a harsh and callous public indictment such as you posted to the Internet here is quite disconcerting. I hate to think how many people might be discouraged from taking trips here! We work very hard to run the best pelagic trips possible and I feel that they are truly world class. But it is not a world class living. We struggle to survive as we provide this service for people like yourself. Please take a little time to think about how a hastily contrived message like you sent might affect someone's business. I plan to be in this business for a while yet, because there are some people out there who truly appreciate what we do. By the way we see Great Skuas here regularly, not occasionally, during winter. Brian PattesonHatteras, NChttp://www.seabirding.com __________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Stormy Petrel II (Reply to John Odgers post) From: Kate Sutherland <gadfly7 AT hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 22:20:52 -0500 I felt that the message from John Odgers about Great Skua needed to be forwarded to Brian. I am posting this message for him as he is currently on a Cape to Cape tour in the Southern Ocean. Thank you, Kate Sutherland (Seabirding) From Brian Patteson, currently in the Southern Ocean. John Odgers wrote the following after publicly bashing my boat, which happens to be the source of my livelihood and something I take a lot of pride in. "Sorry, Brian, I don't really mean to bad mouth you here. I know your trips occassionally get the bird and that's great. I just have to follow my heart.Cheers! John" John, I'm sorry you don't like our boat, but there are plenty of people who do. Keep in mind that you were aboard for one of the roughest trips we have ever run on her, which would have been a Hell Ride on any boat. It also happened to be the first trip we ran with her, really the first day I had her in much of a sea. Since you were aboard, we have made a few improvements and we also pay close attention to the courses we run, although there is no denying she is a wet runner in choppy seas. But she is a great swell boat and drifts and runs upsea much better than a variety of boats which we have chartered for trips here in the past. She is not fast, but to judge her performance on a day like we had when we could not run her at her regular cruise because of fuel problems and heavy seas is not a fair judgment. I have basically committed my life to running birding and fishing charters and to see a harsh and callous public indictment such as you posted to the Internet here is quite disconcerting. I hate to think how many people might be discouraged from taking trips here! We work very hard to run the best pelagic trips possible and I feel that they are truly world class. But it is not a world class living. We struggle to survive as we provide this service for people like yourself. Please take a little time to think about how a hastily contrived message like you sent might affect someone's business. I plan to be in this business for a while yet, because there are some people out there who truly appreciate what we do. By the way we see Great Skuas here regularly, not occasionally, during winter. Brian PattesonHatteras, NChttp://www.seabirding.com _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June From: "John Hansen" <majorhart AT sbcglobal.net> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:35:57 -0600 I got the message and will keep it the same as it's been for 6 years now. I started this list when Barbara Passmore was birdchat list owner and it's done well all that time. We need no changes. However for some if this is unsatisfactory, please go to another list. John Hansen - listowner By John Hansen majorhart AT sbcglobal.net http://marketplace-central.com - OK to forward ----- Original Message ----- From: David Heath To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June My vote would be to offer a choice. On other groups I subscribe to, if you hit Reply All your address line will include the group AND the sender you're replying to; you can delete one or the other. A choice, not an echo. David Heath Portland, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wallace" To: "2pelagics" Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 6:58 AM Subject: Fw: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > From: Mike Feighner > To: Robert Wallace > Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 9:39:17 AM > Subject: RE: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June > > Robert: > > I second the motion to reset the reply feature so that replies go to the > original sender instead of the entire list. Also attachments should not be > allowed. > > I emailed the group, but it did not go through. > > -- > Mike Feighner, Livermore, CA, Alameda County > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com > >[mailto:pelagics AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Wallace > >Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:40 PM > >To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, > >May, and June > > > >To the Pelagics listowner: Is there any way to reset the > >reply feature so that replies go to the original sender > >instead of the entire list? All of the other Yahoo groups > >that I belong to do not send the reply to the entire list. > >Thank you, > >Bob Wallace > >Alachua FL > > > >----- Original Message ---- > >From: Robert Wallace > >To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2008 5:36:30 PM > >Subject: Re: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, > >May, and June > > > > Hey Brian - do you still have any places > >left for Memorial Day weekend? > >Am trying to schedule coming up, > >Bob Wallace > > > >----- Original Message ---- > >From: J. BRIAN PATTESON > >To: PELAGICS > >Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:52:34 AM > >Subject: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June > > > >Dear Seabirders, > > > >We've been having such a good winter here for running pelagic > >trips that I haven't said much lately about spring trips, but > >this update is timely. I have recently written an article > >about pelagic birding off Cape Hatteras for the American > >Birding Association newsletter, "Winging It." That issue > >should be reaching ABA members any day now, so if you don"t > >want to miss out on some of the spring trips you have been > >considering, it might be wise to go ahead and make reservations soon. > > > >As has been the case for the last few years, some of our trips > >around Memorial Day are already full or nearly full. This > >year, so far we have mostly received bookings for our trips > >from Hatteras on the Stormy Petrel II (our own boat, not a > >charter.) At present, however, we still have several openings > >on our trips from Oregon Inlet (departing near > >Manteo) aboard the Country Girl on May 24, 25, and 26- the > >ever-popular Memorial Day Weekend. Although it is a bit > >farther out to the Gulf Stream up there, that boat gets there > >fast, so you still get plenty of deep-water time. We also > >plan to have good experienced leaders up there each day, so > >those should be equally productive trips. > > > >Our trips from Hatteras on May 23 and 26 still have a few > >spaces left if you want to take trips on both boats. We also > >have room in Hatteras from May 27 through June 2, if you want > >to book several trips and make a > >serious attempt at the spring rarities. Our trips between May 17 and > >22 have the most space, and although May 20 and 21 were a bit > >dull last year on account of some westerly wind, that might > >not be the case in 2008. Each year has different weather, and > >over the years, we have seen good birds on all of the dates we > >are offering trips this spring. I've seen (and photographed) > >Trindade Petrel as early as May 12 and Fea's Petrel as early > >as May 14, but we've spent little or no time looking in April > >or early May, so they might occur much earlier than we have recorded. > > > >I think April is a good time to run some trips, but it was > >never feasible when we were chartering boats for trips, as the > >overhead was too high. Fortunately, we now have the > >opportunity to run viable trips with far less people, so I am > >willing to give it a try, and we have planned trips this year > >on April 25, 26, and 27. There are generally good numbers of > >Black-capped Petrels around then, and I would not rule out the > >possibility of Trindade, Fea's, or Bermuda Petrels at that time. > >Tropicbirds have been seen here as early as late March > >(Red-billed. ) Late April is typically peak time for migrating > >adult Pomarine Jaegers, and it should not be too early for > >Long-tailed Jaeger. There is a good chance for Parasitic > >Jaeger as well, both inshore and offshore. Red Phalaropes, > >which winter here, should be coming into breeding plumage and > >could still be around if we find a good sharp Gulf Stream > >change, often present at this season. North of Diamond Shoals > >Tower, there might be some fairly cold water, and I would not > >be completely surprised to see some Northern Fulmars or even a > >late Atlantic Puffin out there. > >Basically, there is a chance for some very interesting > >birding, along with a great chance to see some sea turtles and > >marine mammals. It will be too early for Cory's and Greater > >Shearwaters, but Sooty, Manx, and Audubon's could all be > >around, as well as Wilson's and possibly Leach's > >Storm-Petrels. There should still be some gannets here, and > >it is worth mentioning there are two mid-April records of > >Yellow-nosed Albatross from Cape Hatteras. Late April is also > >prime time to look for the southeastern specialty birds across > >the sound in mainland NC. > > > >Thanks to everyone who has already signed up for trips this > >year; I hope others will have the opportunity to visit the > >Gulf Stream with us in 2008. Our website has up to date > >information about upcoming trips- http://www.seabirdi ng.com/, > >but it is always a good idea to confirm that space is > >available before sending your trip registration to us. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Brian Patteson > > > >Hatteras, NC > > > >brian AT patteson. com > > > >http://www.seabirdi ng.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Subject: Re: N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June From: "David Heath" <drheath AT worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:23:17 -0800 My vote would be to offer a choice. On other groups I subscribe to, if you hit Reply All your address line will include the group AND the sender you're replying to; you can delete one or the other. A choice, not an echo. David Heath Portland, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wallace" To: "2pelagics" Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 6:58 AM Subject: Fw: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > From: Mike Feighner > To: Robert Wallace > Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 9:39:17 AM > Subject: RE: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June > > Robert: > > I second the motion to reset the reply feature so that replies go to the > original sender instead of the entire list. Also attachments should not be > allowed. > > I emailed the group, but it did not go through. > > -- > Mike Feighner, Livermore, CA, Alameda County > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com > >[mailto:pelagics AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Wallace > >Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:40 PM > >To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, > >May, and June > > > >To the Pelagics listowner: Is there any way to reset the > >reply feature so that replies go to the original sender > >instead of the entire list? All of the other Yahoo groups > >that I belong to do not send the reply to the entire list. > >Thank you, > >Bob Wallace > >Alachua FL > > > >----- Original Message ---- > >From: Robert Wallace > >To: pelagics AT yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2008 5:36:30 PM > >Subject: Re: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, > >May, and June > > > > Hey Brian - do you still have any places > >left for Memorial Day weekend? > >Am trying to schedule coming up, > >Bob Wallace > > > >----- Original Message ---- > >From: J. BRIAN PATTESON > >To: PELAGICS > >Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:52:34 AM > >Subject: [pelagics] N. Carolina Pelagic Trips in April, May, and June > > > >Dear Seabirders, > > > >We've been having such a good winter here for running pelagic > >trips that I haven't said much lately about spring trips, but > >this update is timely. I have recently written an article > >about pelagic birding off Cape Hatteras for the American > >Birding Association newsletter, "Winging It." That issue > >should be reaching ABA members any day now, so if you don"t > >want to miss out on some of the spring trips you have been > >considering, it might be wise to go ahead and make reservations soon. > > > >As has been the case for the last few years, some of our trips > >around Memorial Day are already full or nearly full. This > >year, so far we have mostly received bookings for our trips > >from Hatteras on the Stormy Petrel II (our own boat, not a > >charter.) At present, however, we still have several openings > >on our trips from Oregon Inlet (departing near > >Manteo) aboard the Country Girl on May 24, 25, and 26- the > >ever-popular Memorial Day Weekend. Although it is a bit > >farther out to the Gulf Stream up there, that boat gets there > >fast, so you still get plenty of deep-water time. We also > >plan to have good experienced leaders up there each day, so > >those should be equally productive trips. > > > >Our trips from Hatteras on May 23 and 26 still have a few > >spaces left if you want to take trips on both boats. We also > >have room in Hatteras from May 27 through June 2, if you want > >to book several trips and make a > >serious attempt at the spring rarities. Our trips between May 17 and > >22 have the most space, and although May 20 and 21 were a bit > >dull last year on account of some westerly wind, that might > >not be the case in 2008. Each year has different weather, and > >over the years, we have seen good birds on all of the dates we > >are offering trips this spring. I've seen (and photographed) > >Trindade Petrel as early as May 12 and Fea's Petrel as early > >as May 14, but we've spent little or no time looking in April > >or early May, so they might occur much earlier than we have recorded. > > > >I think April is a good time to run some trips, but it was > >never feasible when we were chartering boats for trips, as the > >overhead was too high. Fortunately, we now have the > >opportunity to run viable trips with far less people, so I am > >willing to give it a try, and we have planned trips this year > >on April 25, 26, and 27. There are generally good numbers of > >Black-capped Petrels around then, and I would not rule out the > >possibility of Trindade, Fea's, or Bermuda Petrels at that time. > >Tropicbirds have been seen here as early as late March > >(Red-billed. ) Late April is typically peak time for migrating > >adult Pomarine Jaegers, and it should not be too early for > >Long-tailed Jaeger. There is a good chance for Parasitic > >Jaeger as well, both inshore and offshore. Red Phalaropes, > >which winter here, should be coming into breeding plumage and > >could still be around if we find a good sharp Gulf Stream > >change, often pres