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Recent Postings from
The Oklahoma Birding List

Updated on Tuesday, December 11 at 09:36 PM ET
The most recently received Mail is at the top.

It was overcast, windy, and mild (70's) today, with fog early, on the Red 
Slough Bird Survey. We still have a number of lingering species. Here is a 
complete list of all species found today: 


Greater White-fronted Goose - 1
Snow Goose - 4
Ross' Goose - 2
Wood Duck - 40
Gadwall - 255
American Wigeon - 2
Mallard - 152
Blue-winged Teal - 8
Northern Shoveler - 510
Green-winged Teal - 92
Ring-necked Duck - 180
Lesser Scaup - 1
Hooded Merganser - 1
Ruddy Duck - 1
Pied-billed Grebe - 20
Eared Grebe - 1
American White Pelican - 6
Double-crested Cormorant - 435
Anhinga - 3
Great Blue Heron - 15
Great Egret - 18
Cattle Egret - 1
White Ibis - 80
Black Vulture - 6
Turkey Vulture - 22
Northern Harrier - 12
Cooper's Hawk - 2
Red-tailed Hawk - 11
American Kestrel - 1
Virginia Rail - 20
Sora - 9
Common Moorhen - 1
American Coot - 92
Killdeer - 27
Greater Yellowlegs - 18
Least Sandpiper - 82
Long-billed Dowitcher - 22
Wilson's Snipe - 35
Mourning Dove - 35
Belted Kingfisher - 6
Red-bellied Woodpecker - 10
Yellow-bellied Sapsucker - 1
Hairy Woodpecker - 2
Northern Flicker - 5
Pileated Woodpecker - 2
Eastern Phoebe - 10
Loggerhead Shrike - 3
Blue Jay - 8
American Crow - 360
Fish Crow - 69
Carolina Chickadee - 3
Carolina Wren - 5
Winter Wren - 1
Sedge Wren - 9
Marsh Wren - 11
Ruby-crowned Kinglet - 3
Eastern Bluebird - 5
Northern Mockingbird - 2
Brown Thrasher - 2
European Starling - 9
American Pipit - 28
Orange-crowned Warbler - 2
Yellow-rumped Warbler - 10
Eastern Towhee - 5
Field Sparrow - 7
Savannah Sparrow - 16
Fox Sparrow - 3
Song Sparrow - 32
Swamp Sparrow - 13
White-throated Sparrow - 4
White-crowned Sparrow - 3
Dark-eyed Junco - 1
Lapland Longspur - 1
Northern Cardinal - 9
Red-winged Blackbird - 650
Eastern Meadowlark - 8
Purple Finch - 1
American Goldfinch - 50

Odonates:

Common Green Darner
Variegated Meadowhawk

Herps:

Red-eared Slider
Blanchard's Cricket Frog
Upland Chorus Frog
Spring Peeper
Southern Leopard Frog

Good birding!

David Arbour
De Queen, AR

Visit the Red Slough Website: 
http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/ouachita/natural-resources/redslough/index.shtml 

hello;

My trips outside, on my front porch, were few today but some birds were 
observed in the steady cold rain that was falling. 


Cardinals have been observed in the Dogwoods, eating a few of the fruits / 
berries. 

Eurasian Doves have been frequenting the millet and other grains scattered on 
the ground. 

A Red-breasted Nuthatch continues to take black sunflower from the feeder.

The weather was constant rain, but not freezing.

thanks,
Mike Brewer
Pauls Valley, Oklahoma

I had only one that I saw this time, but I usually have a few every winter,
at least I think that's what they are.

lisa
osage county



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
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Hello evreyone,

 I recieved a call today from one of Lawton's finest that patrols Lake 
Lawtonka. He noticed a swan at some point today, so this afternoon I went out 
to confirm and identify the exact species that was present. It is definitaly a 
Tundra Swan even though there is almost no yellow lore present. The bill shape 
and size as well as the shape of the cheek at the base of the bill really 
confirmed it's identity. I won't be leaving Lawton until mid-morning so plan to 
be back out at first light to get another look. It is located on the western 
side of the lake at Robinson's Landing the same location of the Western and 
Clarks Grebe last year. 


  CHEER,
  Eric Beck


---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

I had a pair of White Winged Doves in my gravel drive yesterday,eating the 
cracked corn I spread! 

 Also today, I was pleased and excited to find PINE SISKINS at my feeder, 
another OK,yard, AND LIFE bird for me! 

  Nan Baker
  Little City,Marshall county,OK.


 What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone, But what is woven into 
the hearts and lives of others. 

I have probably not paid enough attention to past posts here but I do not 
recall mention of Rusty Blackbirds at feeders. At the start of the storm, I 
threw a mixture of seeds and kitchen scraps below the feeders. A large group of 
birds came in, including some I could not identify. They turned out to be a 
group of Rusty Blackbirds - maybe ten of them. As conditions improved, they, as 
well as other species, gradually disappeared. The pics are in the top row here. 

   http://www.pbase.com/m3ling/otherbirds
  Mark Dreiling

hello:

I'm fortunate ... the heavy ice ended about 20-40 miles north of where I
live.
The photos and talk remind me of the giant ice storm we had here on New
Years 2000.  The power got knocked out three times, at my house, from big
limbs falling on my main service line.

Thanks to OG&E and a power company that came down from Kansas they put the
service line back up all three times (ASAP)  This was not easy as my home is
a nice old historic house and two stories high.  The OG&E Linemen, and other
men and women in the field, do a very good work in terrible conditions ...
so they deserve a lot of credit and thanks.  We don't want to ignore that
because of other recent discussions and viewpoints.

In fact, power companies often completely restructure their lines so that
Eagles and birds of prey are not electrocuted.

thanks,
Mike Brewer
Pauls Valley, Oklahoma

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy Berger" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 7:06 AM
Subject: Ice Storm


> Just wanted everyone to know that we feel your pain
> here in Arkansas.  We wish everyone well in this
> storm.  OKbirds sure seems quiet.
>
> Sandy Berger and family
> Fort Smith, AR
>
>
>
> 
____________________________________________________________________________________ 

> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

The Audubon Society of Central Oklahoma general meeting that was scheduled for 
tonight is now canceled. The roads might be OK right now, but it appears that 
the church where we meet may not have power and no one can be reached there. 
Additionally, the weather forecast for tonight is another hard freeze in the 
20's, so it's not worth the risk of leaving the meeting on icy roads. We will 
reschedule at a later date. 


  Juncos are abundant on our feeder and one Dove with a tail.

  Hope everyone can keep warm!
  Jane Cunningham

Just wanted everyone to know that we feel your pain
here in Arkansas.  We wish everyone well in this
storm.  OKbirds sure seems quiet.

Sandy Berger and family
Fort Smith, AR


 
____________________________________________________________________________________ 

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

It was the result of a long day indoors cleaning house. No ground dove. Did get 
an Inca Dove in Purcell Friday. 


John
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mike. brewer 
  To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
  Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 5:03 PM
  Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


  Would you please elaborate.  Did you see a ground dove or is this a joke?
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: John Sterling 
    To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
    Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:14 PM
    Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


    Common  Ground Dove!!!!!!
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: John Hansen 
      To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
      Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:03 PM
      Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


      Cat - or sharpshin.

                John Hansen  majorhart AT sbcglobal.net
        American Crossroads Mall  -  Crossroads Mall Blog
                   http://american-crossroads-mall.com
                   http://american-crossroads-mall.com/blog


       
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Donald Wolfe 
        To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
        Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:44 PM
        Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


        Roy,

         

 I have been seeing the same thing. Also, had one Mourning Dove at feeders this 
morning that had one tail feather attached, and the rest of them were dragging 
along behind him, stuck to the remaining single feather by ice. I tried to get 
a picture, but was unsuccessful. 


         

        Don Wolfe

        Senior Biologist

        G. M. Sutton Avian Research Center

        University of Oklahoma

        P.O. Box 2007

        Bartlesville, OK  74005

        (office)

        (fax)

        (mobile)

        dwolfe AT ou.edu

        www.suttoncenter.org

 "In the environment, every victory is temporary, every defeat permanent." - 
Thomas Jefferson 



------------------------------------------------------------------------

        From: okbirds [mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu] On Behalf Of Roy Whitworth
        Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:24 PM
        To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu
        Subject: Doves with no tails

         

 I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are in the process of loosing 
or have already lost their tail feathers. Their tails are covered with thick 
ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to pull loose. It does seem to 
affect their flight some, but they are still getting around pretty good. They 
do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder do not seem to have the same 
problem. 

         

        Roy Whitworth

        Bartlesville, OK

Looks like this year's CBC could be a great one.  Looking forward to being
there.  Its a long drive, but always worth while.

See you the 30th.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sebastian Patti" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [cobirds] CBC Dates Updated


> Hola . . . 2 counts that MAY be of interest . . .
>
> CIMARRON NAT'L. GRASSLANDS (Elkhart, KS)
> SATURDAY, DECEMBER  29, 2007
> Meet in Elkhart on FRI PM
>
> KENTON (BLACK MESA), OKLAHOMA
> SUNDAY, December 30, 2007
> Meet in Boise City on Sunday early AM
>
> CONTACT COMPILER if interested in participating
>
>
> sebastianpatti AT hotmail.com
> Sebastian T. Patti
> (Lincoln Park)
> Chicago, ILLINOIS 
> PHONE: 312/ (o) 773/ (h)
> FAX: 312/ (o) 773/ (h)
> CELL: 773/
>
>> From: r-hopper AT comcast.net
>> To: sebastianpatti AT hotmail.com
>> Subject: [cobirds] CBC Dates Updated
>> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:00:
>>
>> COBirders,
>>
>> The CFO CBC page has been updated again. Compilers, please check your
>> info.
>> Thanks. http://www.cfo-link.org/birding/cbc.php
>> -----------------------
>> Rachel Hopper
>> Ft. Collins, CO
>> Visit the CFO County Birding site at: www.coloradocountybirding.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> COBirds is owned and managed by Colorado Field Ornithologists:
>> http://www.cfo-link.org
>> TO SUBSCRIBE AND FIND IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST (stop mail,
>> etc) GO TO: http://cfo-link.org/birding/COBirds.php
>> To read the archives go to: http://lists.cfo-link.org/read/?forum=cobirds
>> For comprehensive Colorado birding site information and directions, link
>> to:
>> http://www.coloradocountybirding.com
>> ---
>> To post a message to this list, send mail to:
>> cobirds AT lists.cfo-link.org
>> You are currently subscribed to cobirds as: sebastianpatti AT hotmail.com
>> To unsubscribe click on the link below:
>> http://talk.netatlantic.com/u?id=193430R&l=cobirds

It was very foggy today all over SE Oklahoma. The cool weather is a relief over 
the almost 80 degree weather we had yesterday. While working at Red Slough 
today I noticed a few interesting birds. The small flock of "light geese" were 
circling low over RS looking for a place to land. 


Snow Goose - 1
Ross's Goose - 4
Ross's X Snow Goose - 1 (probable; appeared intermediate between the Snow & the 
Ross'). 

Great Egret - several
White Ibis - 30
Sedge Wren - 2
American Pipit - ~30
Common Yellowthroat - 3 (2 imm. males & 1 female.)
Lapland Longspur - 1 (In with pipit flock on disked ground of unit 30).

David Arbour
De Queen, AR

Visit the Red Slough Website: 
http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/ouachita/natural-resources/redslough/index.shtml 

here is a link about fright release of feathers.

http://www.africangreys.com/articles/other/earthquakes_parrots.html

Hola . . . 2 counts that MAY be of interest . . .

CIMARRON NAT'L. GRASSLANDS (Elkhart, KS)
SATURDAY, DECEMBER  29, 2007
Meet in Elkhart on FRI PM

KENTON (BLACK MESA), OKLAHOMA
SUNDAY, December 30, 2007
Meet in Boise City on Sunday early AM

CONTACT COMPILER if interested in participating


sebastianpatti AT hotmail.com
Sebastian T. Patti
(Lincoln Park)
Chicago, ILLINOIS 
PHONE: 312/ (o) 773/ (h)
FAX: 312/ (o) 773/ (h)
CELL: 773/

> From: r-hopper AT comcast.net
> To: sebastianpatti AT hotmail.com
> Subject: [cobirds] CBC Dates Updated
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:00:
>
> COBirders,
>
> The CFO CBC page has been updated again. Compilers, please check your info.
> Thanks. http://www.cfo-link.org/birding/cbc.php
> -----------------------
> Rachel Hopper
> Ft. Collins, CO
> Visit the CFO County Birding site at: www.coloradocountybirding.com
>
>
>
> ---
> COBirds is owned and managed by Colorado Field Ornithologists: 
http://www.cfo-link.org 

> TO SUBSCRIBE AND FIND IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST (stop mail, etc) 
GO TO: http://cfo-link.org/birding/COBirds.php 

> To read the archives go to: http://lists.cfo-link.org/read/?forum=cobirds
> For comprehensive Colorado birding site information and directions, link to:
> http://www.coloradocountybirding.com
> ---
> To post a message to this list, send mail to:
> cobirds AT lists.cfo-link.org
> You are currently subscribed to cobirds as: sebastianpatti AT hotmail.com
> To unsubscribe click on the link below:
> http://talk.netatlantic.com/u?id=193430R&l=cobirds

Hello:

Tail feathers of morning doves (and racing pigeons) often come out (drop) very 
easily, relative to many other birds. 

Weight attached to flight feathers will also cause the feather to drop. I have 
for forgotten when or where I heard of the following ... perhaps with pigeon 
racing fanciers ... 


Occasionally when a bird gets a broken flight feather, which is needed for 
maximum flight performance, a small or light weight will be attached to the 
remaining portion, and over a period of time, the feather will drop in a "close 
to natural" manner, without follicle damage. If the remaining feather is simply 
pulled out, the the follicle is often damaged and a stunted or defective 
feather will grow back. Once the follicle is damaged it is all over, for any 
feather growth that is like the original. Often a feather will not even grow 
back out at all. 


sincerely,
Mike Brewer
Pauls Valley, Oklahoma

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Shackford 
  To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
  Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 3:28 PM
  Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


 I have heard from dove hunters and specimen preparers that dove feathers fall 
out with the slightest pressure (although I'm not sure this applied to the wing 
and tail feathers). Maybe the birds are getting their tail feathers iced up and 
stuck--wherever they are sitting--and the birds fly off, leaving the tail 
behind? (Perhaps getting stuck thusly could induce the "fright" release of the 
feathers.) 


  John Shackford
  Edmond


 In a message dated 12/10/2007 2:08:23 PM Central Standard Time, 
majorhart AT SBCGLOBAL.NET writes: 

    Cat - or sharpshin.

              John Hansen  majorhart AT sbcglobal.net
      American Crossroads Mall  -  Crossroads Mall Blog
                 http://american-crossroads-mall.com/
                 http://american-crossroads-mall.com/blog


     
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Donald Wolfe 
      To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
      Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:44 PM
      Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


      Roy,

       

 I have been seeing the same thing. Also, had one Mourning Dove at feeders this 
morning that had one tail feather attached, and the rest of them were dragging 
along behind him, stuck to the remaining single feather by ice. I tried to get 
a picture, but was unsuccessful. 


       

      Don Wolfe

      Senior Biologist

      G. M. Sutton Avian Research Center

      University of Oklahoma

      P.O. Box 2007

      Bartlesville, OK  74005

      (office)

      (fax)

      (mobile)

      dwolfe AT ou.edu

      http://www.suttoncenter.org/

 "In the environment, every victory is temporary, every defeat permanent." - 
Thomas Jefferson 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: okbirds [mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu] On Behalf Of Roy Whitworth
      Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:24 PM
      To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu
      Subject: Doves with no tails

       

 I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are in the process of loosing 
or have already lost their tail feathers. Their tails are covered with thick 
ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to pull loose. It does seem to 
affect their flight some, but they are still getting around pretty good. They 
do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder do not seem to have the same 
problem. 

       

      Roy Whitworth

      Bartlesville, OK






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

Today I had a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker drilling holes
in one of the pine trees in my yard.  (I mostly have
post oak woods.)

That made 4 woodpecker species today:  Red-bellied
Woodpecker, Downy Woodpecker, Northern Flicker, and
the Yellow-bellied Sapsucker.

After reading the dove messages, I looked closer at my
Mourning Doves, and saw two doves which had ice
encrusting their tail feathers.  Some other Mourning
Doves looked like they were missing some of their tail
feathers.

Karen Bays
south Logan county (Edmond)

--- Roy Whitworth  wrote:

> I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are
> in the process of loosing or have already lost their
> tail feathers. Their tails are covered with thick
> ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to
> pull loose. It does seem to affect their flight
> some, but they are still getting around pretty good.
> They do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder
> do not seem to have the same problem.
>
> Roy Whitworth
> Bartlesville, OK
>



 
____________________________________________________________________________________ 

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

John:

"Fright Release of feathers" is a new one for me.  
Are you sure this is a proven phenomenon?

sincerely,
Mike
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Shackford 
  To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
  Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 3:28 PM
  Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


 I have heard from dove hunters and specimen preparers that dove feathers fall 
out with the slightest pressure (although I'm not sure this applied to the wing 
and tail feathers). Maybe the birds are getting their tail feathers iced up and 
stuck--wherever they are sitting--and the birds fly off, leaving the tail 
behind? (Perhaps getting stuck thusly could induce the "fright" release of the 
feathers.) 


  John Shackford
  Edmond


 In a message dated 12/10/2007 2:08:23 PM Central Standard Time, 
majorhart AT SBCGLOBAL.NET writes: 

    Cat - or sharpshin.

              John Hansen  majorhart AT sbcglobal.net
      American Crossroads Mall  -  Crossroads Mall Blog
                 http://american-crossroads-mall.com/
                 http://american-crossroads-mall.com/blog


     
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Donald Wolfe 
      To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
      Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:44 PM
      Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


      Roy,

       

 I have been seeing the same thing. Also, had one Mourning Dove at feeders this 
morning that had one tail feather attached, and the rest of them were dragging 
along behind him, stuck to the remaining single feather by ice. I tried to get 
a picture, but was unsuccessful. 


       

      Don Wolfe

      Senior Biologist

      G. M. Sutton Avian Research Center

      University of Oklahoma

      P.O. Box 2007

      Bartlesville, OK  74005

      (office)

      (fax)

      (mobile)

      dwolfe AT ou.edu

      http://www.suttoncenter.org/

 "In the environment, every victory is temporary, every defeat permanent." - 
Thomas Jefferson 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: okbirds [mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu] On Behalf Of Roy Whitworth
      Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:24 PM
      To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu
      Subject: Doves with no tails

       

 I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are in the process of loosing 
or have already lost their tail feathers. Their tails are covered with thick 
ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to pull loose. It does seem to 
affect their flight some, but they are still getting around pretty good. They 
do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder do not seem to have the same 
problem. 

       

      Roy Whitworth

      Bartlesville, OK






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

Would you please elaborate.  Did you see a ground dove or is this a joke?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Sterling 
  To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
  Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:14 PM
  Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


  Common  Ground Dove!!!!!!
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: John Hansen 
    To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
    Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:03 PM
    Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


    Cat - or sharpshin.

              John Hansen  majorhart AT sbcglobal.net
      American Crossroads Mall  -  Crossroads Mall Blog
                 http://american-crossroads-mall.com
                 http://american-crossroads-mall.com/blog


     
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Donald Wolfe 
      To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
      Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:44 PM
      Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


      Roy,

       

 I have been seeing the same thing. Also, had one Mourning Dove at feeders this 
morning that had one tail feather attached, and the rest of them were dragging 
along behind him, stuck to the remaining single feather by ice. I tried to get 
a picture, but was unsuccessful. 


       

      Don Wolfe

      Senior Biologist

      G. M. Sutton Avian Research Center

      University of Oklahoma

      P.O. Box 2007

      Bartlesville, OK  74005

      (office)

      (fax)

      (mobile)

      dwolfe AT ou.edu

      www.suttoncenter.org

 "In the environment, every victory is temporary, every defeat permanent." - 
Thomas Jefferson 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: okbirds [mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu] On Behalf Of Roy Whitworth
      Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:24 PM
      To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu
      Subject: Doves with no tails

       

 I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are in the process of loosing 
or have already lost their tail feathers. Their tails are covered with thick 
ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to pull loose. It does seem to 
affect their flight some, but they are still getting around pretty good. They 
do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder do not seem to have the same 
problem. 

       

      Roy Whitworth

      Bartlesville, OK

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:28: (EST), you wrote:

>I have heard from dove hunters and specimen preparers that dove feathers fall
>out with the slightest pressure (although I'm not sure this applied to the
>wing and tail feathers).

Primarily the tail feathers, an apparent escape strategy. Mourning Doves
are especially good at losing their tails, but lots of songbirds do the
same thing. I've never had a woodpecker lose any tail feathers, which
makes sense considering how much they depend on their tails.

It seems to vary from bird to bird whether they're going to lose any
feathers at all, and which ones if they do, but I've taken birds out of
mist nets and had a big flurry of body feathers come off. My
recollection is that White-throated Sparrows are especially good at that
trick. In general, however, tails are the first to go, and then various
body feathers. I don't recall ever seeing remiges lost during a "fright
molt."

-Steve

*I've had lots of doves sleep amongst the leaves on the ground in my
backyard off and on the last couple weeks.  I would guess their tails might
froze to the ground during the night while it rained.  That being said, all
my doves seem to have a complete set of tail feathers today, so who knows?*

On Dec 10, 2007 2:41 PM, M.S. Harris  wrote:

>  Well, I have to chime in on this, too.  I also live in Bartlesville where
> we are experiencing an ice storm and have seen a couple of mourning doves
> with little or no tail feathers left.  The two I've seen are definitely
> mourning doves.  Both had varying degrees of ice on their remaining tail
> feathers.
>
> Roy commented that none of the other birds in his yard suffered the same
> fate.  I'm wondering if it has to do with the way doves traditionally
> perch/roost.  I've always seen them out in the open; for instance on a
> highline wire or in the open branches of a tree.  Would this make them more
> susceptible to accumulating ice on their tails?
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Suzy Harris
> Bartlesville
>

I have heard from dove hunters and specimen preparers that dove feathers fall
out with the slightest pressure (although I'm not sure this applied to the
wing and tail feathers).  Maybe the birds are getting their tail feathers iced
up and stuck--wherever they are sitting--and the birds fly off, leaving the
tail behind? (Perhaps getting stuck thusly could induce the "fright" release of 

the feathers.)

John Shackford
Edmond


In a message dated 12/10/2007 2:08:23 PM Central Standard Time,
majorhart AT SBCGLOBAL.NET writes:

Cat - or sharpshin.

John Hansen  _majorhart AT sbcglobal.net_ (mailto:majorhart AT sbcglobal.net)
American Crossroads Mall  -  Crossroads Mall Blog
_http://american-crossroads-mall.com/_ (http://american-crossroads-mall.com/)
_http://american-crossroads-mall.com/blog_
(http://american-crossroads-mall.com/blog)




----- Original Message -----
From: _Donald Wolfe_ (mailto:dwolfe AT ou.edu)
To: _OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu_ (mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu)
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Doves with no tails



Roy,
I have been seeing the same thing.  Also, had one Mourning Dove at feeders
this morning that had one tail feather attached, and the rest of them were
dragging along behind him, stuck to the remaining single feather by ice. I 
tried 

to get a picture, but was unsuccessful.

Don Wolfe
Senior Biologist
G. M. Sutton Avian Research Center
University of Oklahoma
P.O. Box 2007
Bartlesville, OK  74005
 (office) (fax) (mobile)
_dwolfe AT ou.edu_ (mailto:dwolfe AT ou.edu)
_http://www.suttoncenter.org/_ (http://www.suttoncenter.org/)
"In the environment, every victory is temporary, every defeat permanent." -
Thomas Jefferson


____________________________________

From: okbirds [mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu] On Behalf Of Roy Whitworth
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:24 PM
To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu
Subject: Doves with no tails


I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are in the process of
loosing or have already lost their tail feathers. Their tails are covered with 
thick 

ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to pull loose. It does seem
to affect their flight some, but they are still getting around pretty good.
They do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder do not seem to have the same
problem.

Roy Whitworth
Bartlesville, OK








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It may be due more to their spending so much time on the ground out in
the open.  Actually they have more to worry about than losing tail
feathers, they grow back, they are pro ne to losing toes due to ice and
cold, and they do not grow back!

 

Jim Ingold

LSU in Shreveport

 

________________________________

From: okbirds [mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu] On Behalf Of M.S. Harris
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:41 PM
To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu
Subject: Re: Doves with no tails

 

Well, I have to chime in on this, too.  I also live in Bartlesville
where we are experiencing an ice storm and have seen a couple of
mourning doves with little or no tail feathers left.  The two I've seen
are definitely mourning doves.  Both had varying degrees of ice on their
remaining tail feathers.

 

Roy commented that none of the other birds in his yard suffered the same
fate.  I'm wondering if it has to do with the way doves traditionally
perch/roost.  I've always seen them out in the open; for instance on a
highline wire or in the open branches of a tree.  Would this make them
more susceptible to accumulating ice on their tails?

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Suzy Harris

Bartlesville

Well, I have to chime in on this, too. I also live in Bartlesville where we are 
experiencing an ice storm and have seen a couple of mourning doves with little 
or no tail feathers left. The two I've seen are definitely mourning doves. Both 
had varying degrees of ice on their remaining tail feathers. 


Roy commented that none of the other birds in his yard suffered the same fate. 
I'm wondering if it has to do with the way doves traditionally perch/roost. 
I've always seen them out in the open; for instance on a highline wire or in 
the open branches of a tree. Would this make them more susceptible to 
accumulating ice on their tails? 


Just some thoughts.

Suzy Harris
Bartlesville

..........that long awaited White-winged Dove showed at 2:15 PM today. Been 
reading about all the folks who had these doves on their feeders but now I 
believe it. A single White-winged was picking up seeds I've strewn on the 
ground, also 11 juncos, both grackles, House Finches, Blue Jays and the 
resident Cardinal pair. 


 The power is still on at my house but it looks ominous how the Crepe Myrtle 
are bowing and my neighbors magnolia collapsed just about 2 hours ago. 


 Friday I visited Bridgestone-Firestone preserve and found a large numbers of 
Robins, several Harris's Sparrows and that Pileated Woodpecker. 


  Matt Jung, OKC


---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

Common  Ground Dove!!!!!!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Hansen 
  To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
  Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:03 PM
  Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


  Cat - or sharpshin.

            John Hansen  majorhart AT sbcglobal.net
    American Crossroads Mall  -  Crossroads Mall Blog
               http://american-crossroads-mall.com
               http://american-crossroads-mall.com/blog


   
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Donald Wolfe 
    To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
    Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:44 PM
    Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


    Roy,

     

 I have been seeing the same thing. Also, had one Mourning Dove at feeders this 
morning that had one tail feather attached, and the rest of them were dragging 
along behind him, stuck to the remaining single feather by ice. I tried to get 
a picture, but was unsuccessful. 


     

    Don Wolfe

    Senior Biologist

    G. M. Sutton Avian Research Center

    University of Oklahoma

    P.O. Box 2007

    Bartlesville, OK  74005

    (office)

    (fax)

    (mobile)

    dwolfe AT ou.edu

    www.suttoncenter.org

 "In the environment, every victory is temporary, every defeat permanent." - 
Thomas Jefferson 



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: okbirds [mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu] On Behalf Of Roy Whitworth
    Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:24 PM
    To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu
    Subject: Doves with no tails

     

 I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are in the process of loosing 
or have already lost their tail feathers. Their tails are covered with thick 
ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to pull loose. It does seem to 
affect their flight some, but they are still getting around pretty good. They 
do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder do not seem to have the same 
problem. 

     

    Roy Whitworth

    Bartlesville, OK

Cat - or sharpshin.

          John Hansen  majorhart AT sbcglobal.net
  American Crossroads Mall  -  Crossroads Mall Blog
             http://american-crossroads-mall.com
             http://american-crossroads-mall.com/blog



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Donald Wolfe 
  To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
  Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:44 PM
  Subject: Re: Doves with no tails


  Roy,

   

 I have been seeing the same thing. Also, had one Mourning Dove at feeders this 
morning that had one tail feather attached, and the rest of them were dragging 
along behind him, stuck to the remaining single feather by ice. I tried to get 
a picture, but was unsuccessful. 


   

  Don Wolfe

  Senior Biologist

  G. M. Sutton Avian Research Center

  University of Oklahoma

  P.O. Box 2007

  Bartlesville, OK  74005

  (office)

  (fax)

  (mobile)

  dwolfe AT ou.edu

  www.suttoncenter.org

 "In the environment, every victory is temporary, every defeat permanent." - 
Thomas Jefferson 



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: okbirds [mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu] On Behalf Of Roy Whitworth
  Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:24 PM
  To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu
  Subject: Doves with no tails

   

 I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are in the process of loosing 
or have already lost their tail feathers. Their tails are covered with thick 
ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to pull loose. It does seem to 
affect their flight some, but they are still getting around pretty good. They 
do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder do not seem to have the same 
problem. 

   

  Roy Whitworth

  Bartlesville, OK

Roy,



I have been seeing the same thing.  Also, had one Mourning Dove at feeders
this morning that had one tail feather attached, and the rest of them were
dragging along behind him, stuck to the remaining single feather by ice.  I
tried to get a picture, but was unsuccessful.



Don Wolfe

Senior Biologist

G. M. Sutton Avian Research Center

University of Oklahoma

P.O. Box 2007

Bartlesville, OK  74005
 (office)
 (fax)
 (mobile)

dwolfe AT ou.edu

www.suttoncenter.org

 "In the environment, every victory is temporary, every defeat permanent." -
Thomas Jefferson

  _____

From: okbirds [mailto:OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu] On Behalf Of Roy Whitworth
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:24 PM
To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu
Subject: Doves with no tails



I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are in the process of
loosing or have already lost their tail feathers. Their tails are covered
with thick ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to pull loose.
It does seem to affect their flight some, but they are still getting around
pretty good. They do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder do not seem
to have the same problem.


Roy Whitworth

Bartlesville, OK

I have several Mourning Doves at the feeder that are in the process of loosing 
or have already lost their tail feathers. Their tails are covered with thick 
ice and the extra weight is causing the feathers to pull loose. It does seem to 
affect their flight some, but they are still getting around pretty good. They 
do look rather odd. Other birds at the feeder do not seem to have the same 
problem. 


Roy Whitworth
Bartlesville, OK

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:02: (EST), you wrote:

>Junco which should not be found in Oklahoma, but now-a-days who knows what
>may show up?

Richard wasn't talking about Dark-eyed Juncos, which are indeed supposed
to be in Oklahoma all winter long. He was referring to Yellow-eyed
Juncos, which are normally found only in southeastern Arizona and
southwestern New Mexico.

-Steve

Of course, I was just joking about the comet. 

There are quite a few Cardinals around here, both around my house and also in 
the countryside. there are just not any birds at the feeders, here where I 
live. There have always been a lot of birds at my feeders in the past. To be 
optimistic, I hope the inactivity at the feeders is because of the abundance of 
wild food. The heavy spring and early summer rains have produced a dramatic 
change in growth of all sorts of vegetation. 


I would be paranoid about the welfare of the birds except for the good reports 
from others on this list. That is one of the fine values of the Okbirds list. 


sincerely,
Mike Brewer
Pauls Valley, Oklahoma




----- Original Message ----- 
  From: RENANNE BAKER 
  To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
  Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:33 AM
  Subject: Re: It must be the comet!


  Mike:
 Down here in Little City,east of Madill, I have not had a single cardinal or 
titmouse at the feeders or in the trees. 

  I have a good flock of juncoes and sparrows and yesterday chickadees, but I
 m really worried about the lack of cardinals.So far, the precip hasn't reached 
this area. There is also still an abundance of berries out there. I'm hoping 
they will come in soon. 

  Nan Baker


 What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone, But what is woven into 
the hearts and lives of others. 

       

Red-breasted Nuthatch and Juncos at the feeder in OKC during this ice storm.
  Jane Cunningham

Junco which should not be found in Oklahoma, but now-a-days who knows what
may show up?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am replying to this posting by Richard Stuart on the 09Dec digest.
I have had Juncoes at my feeders for each of the 20 years that I have lived
in OK. Some years there are more, some years there are fewer. Sometimes I see
them around the first of October, sometimes not until December.
I had no idea that they were not supposed to be in OK, and I certainly hope
that the Juncoes never find this out!


Joyce Konigmacher
--have a wonderful Holiday  season



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Mike:
 Down here in Little City,east of Madill, I have not had a single cardinal or 
titmouse at the feeders or in the trees. 

  I have a good flock of juncoes and sparrows and yesterday chickadees, but I
 m really worried about the lack of cardinals.So far, the precip hasn't reached 
this area. There is also still an abundance of berries out there. I'm hoping 
they will come in soon. 

  Nan Baker


 What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone, But what is woven into 
the hearts and lives of others. 

Only one single bird has come to my feeders this season ?
It must be the Comet !
mike

Hi all,

Donald Winslow and I saw a Fox Sparrow on the ground
underneath the feeders in my yard today.  I look
forward to snow and ice just so I can see these guys!


Other yard birds spotted today included many of the
frequent fliers here.  Here is my list:

Mourning Dove
Red-Bellied Woodpecker
Downy Woodpecker
Blue Jay
American Crow
Tufted Titmouse
Carolina Chickadee
Red-breasted Nuthatch
Ruby Crowned Kinglet
Northern Mockingbird
Yellow-rumped Warbler
White-throated Sparrow
Fox Sparrow
Dark-eyed Junco
Northern Cardinal
American Goldfinch
House Sparrow

--Karen Bays
south Logan County






 
____________________________________________________________________________________ 

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Sorry - I posted this incorrectly - it is on Tuesday, but the date is December 
11th. My earlier post said Dec 13th. Thanks to the person that sent me the 
e-mail that the date was wrong. - Jane Cunningham 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jane Cunningham 
To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 5:43 PM
Subject: Audubon Society of Central OK Meeting Reminder


AUDUBON SOCIETY OF CENTRAL OKLAHOMA
(A Chapter of National Audubon Society)
OUR NEXT GENERAL MEETING
Tuesday, December 11th, 7 PM
Mayflower Congregational Church
3901 NW 63rd, just West of Portland
(Well lighted parking and entrance is behind the building)
Meet and Greet 7 PM-7:30 PM.  Meeting will start at 7:30 PM

Meeting Program (not necessarily in this order)

 a.. Chapter News - Christmas Bird Count, Backyard Bird Count, Treasury Report, 
and Lake Hefner Project Update 


                b.. Updates from Junior Audubon

                c.. See an Audubon book signed by Roger Tory Peterson

                d.. Backwoods Outdoor Wear

                e.. Slides from Alaskan Trip

12-9-07 If this icy, cold, wet weather persists, and roads are difficult to 
navigate on the evening of this meeting, we will cancel it and reschedule it at 
a later date. 

AUDUBON SOCIETY OF CENTRAL OKLAHOMA
(A Chapter of National Audubon Society)
OUR NEXT GENERAL MEETING
Tuesday, December 13th, 7 PM
Mayflower Congregational Church
3901 NW 63rd, just West of Portland
(Well lighted parking and entrance is behind the building)
Meet and Greet 7 PM-7:30 PM.  Meeting will start at 7:30 PM

Meeting Program (not necessarily in this order)

 a.. Chapter News - Christmas Bird Count, Backyard Bird Count, Treasury Report, 
and Lake Hefner Project Update 


                b.. Updates from Junior Audubon

                c.. See an Audubon book signed by Roger Tory Peterson

                d.. Backwoods Outdoor Wear

                e.. Slides from Alaskan Trip

12-9-07 If this icy, cold, wet weather persists, and roads are difficult to 
navigate on the evening of this meeting, we will cancel it and reschedule it at 
a later date. 

I have seen so many divers and dabblers on a pond in west Edmond this
winter. Ring necked, bufflehead, common golden eye and redhead are my favorite 

divers. They are so beautifully marked, skittering across the water when taking 

flight.  Dabblers I have seen are Northern Shovelers,  American Wigeon, lots
of Gadwall and some Teal.  For the community, do  these ducks usually stay for
the winter in OK? They have been on the  pond for over a month now.  In
addition, two Great Horned Owl visit  regularly in search of a meal I am sure.
Will they eat ducks?

Lisa



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Howdy,
 Came back from church and brunch this afternoon to hear some Red Crossbills 
flying over just to the east of the house. 


 Not sure if they are just transient yet, as this is the first for the 
neighborhood this season (and its been a few years or 8 since I last had them 
here). But one year, the arbor vitae had an especially good cone crop, and a 
group of 9 hung around for over a month. Would hear them and sometimes have 
them swing over the yard that year. There is a good strip of arbor vitae not 
too far from the house they were visiting that year, and at least one other 
good row of trees in the neighborhood. They have a modest crop this year, but 
lot of ice on them at the moment. Red-breasted Nuthatch activity in the yard is 
pretty constant; 6-8 birds. 


CHEERS,                                     JOE

On the CBC, it is not necessary to differentiate between Dark-eyed Junco
sub-species. But do remember that there is another species of junco, 
Yellow-eyed 

Junco which should not be found in Oklahoma, but now-a-days who knows what
may  show up?

Richard Stuart
Claremore, OK



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
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Berlin's post reminds me that I saw a flock of 80+ White Ibis last Thursday at 
Red Slough. This has been an incredible year for them! Also seen that day were 
at least 20 Great Egrets still hanging around. 


David Arbour
De Queen, AR

Visit the Red Slough Website: 
http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/ouachita/natural-resources/redslough/index.shtml 


Subject: Red Slough
From: Berlin Heck 
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:51:

Son Bucky and I visited the Slough to chase ducks yesterday.  Few
ducks to be seen but we did see:

White Ibis----34   Pool 30
Dark Ibis-------2   Pool 30
Dowitcher-----2   Pool 15
Pelicans---120   Pool 48
Least Sandpipers--17   Pool 15
Snow Geese----35  (fly over)  Too far to check for Ross's in the flock.
About 10 Sedge Wrens, 3 Marsh Wrens, and one Virginia Rail heard.

 From the Frontier

Berlin Heck
Broken Bow

Man learns from history
that man learns nothing from history

                                  Anon

For anyone who gardens and enjoys birds, a few plants are right now
providing food for birds in my garden:

Shiso (Japanese Purple Perilla)- it's an ornamental edible, kind of
like basil but not as pungent. I grow it for salads and because the
purple leaves look nice with orange marigolds. It can get a little
invasive, but it's easy to pull. I let a few of them get to small
shrub size and go to seed and die (they are annuals). There's at
least a dozen goldfinches feeding on every plant right now. This
plant makes a LOT of seeds, so the goldfinches should stay around
awhile.

Carolina Buckthorn (Rhamnus caroliniana). It's a native shrub/small
broadleafed tree that stays evergreen and makes blueberry-sized fruit
in fall that turns blackish by winter. The birds are eating them like
crazy. Someone gave me one of these years ago and now I have many of
them- the birds plant them. They are hardy and like understory
conditions (semi shade).

American Beautyberry (Callicarpa americana). I have one of these,
it's a spectacular native plant. They cover every branch with
clusters of berries in the fall. I noticed no one was eating these
until the latest freeze, it may be that the fruit needs to "cook" by
freezing before the birds start eating it. The cardinals were chowing
down this morning. Great color scheme- red birds and bright purple
fruit.

I also have viburnums, but they aren't the fruiting kind (oops), and
I've planted a few hawthorns, too, but they are too young to fruit.

If anyone would like more information or sources, feel free to
contact me off-list.

Cheers,
Debby
Norman

My viewpoint is that it's the federal government's job to administer public 
lands - even if other groups can do as well or better. 


That's like turning social security over to the aarp.

          John Hansen  majorhart AT sbcglobal.net
  American Crossroads Mall  -  Crossroads Mall Blog
             http://american-crossroads-mall.com
             http://american-crossroads-mall.com/blog



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Sorensen 
  To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu 
  Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:54 AM
  Subject: Indian Self Determination Act


 Regarding the recent discussion on OKBirds about Native American management of 
NWRs, the following is fom the latest "Capitol Flyer", which is a monthly 
newsletter from the National Wildlife Refuge Association intended to keep the 
pub;ic abreast of the latest developments affecting the National Wildlife 
Refuge System. 



  Steve Sorensen
  Valley Center, KS
  webforbs AT cox.net


  Legislation Guiding Annual Funding Agreements Introduced in House

 Under the auspices of the Indian Self Determination Act, the Secretary of 
Interior, acting through the FWS, can enter into an Annual Funding Agreement 
(AFA) with a Native American Tribe, to conduct management activities on some 
national wildlife refuges. The Act is designed to promote Tribal "self 
governance" - essentially allowing Tribes to do the job of the Federal 
Government where appropriate. Passed in 1994, section 403(b) of the Act 
authorized federally recognized Indian Tribes the authority to negotiate 
funding agreements with the Department of Interior, which included some 
national wildlife refuges. Some AFAs have been very successful such as the 
agreement with the FWS and the Council of Athabascan Tribal Governments at the 
Yukon Flats NWR in Alaska. However, the 2006 agreement between the Confederated 
Salish and Kootenai Tribes at the National Bison Range was a disaster - largely 
due to the absence of a national policy on how AFAs should be administered by 
the FWS at NWRs. 


 On October 30th, legislation was introduced by Representative Dan Boren (R-OK) 
and co-sponsored by Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ) and Chairman Nick Rahall (D-WV) 
of the Natural Resources Committee, to amend the Indian Self Determination Act 
to provide further self-governance for Tribes. H.R. 3994, the Department of 
Interior Tribal Self-Governance Act of 2007, is troublesome, and the NWRA 
cannot support it as written. 


 NWRA submitted formal comments on the proposed bill in the form of a letter to 
Chairman Rahall explaining our position and suggesting changes to comport with 
our AFA Guiding Principles. To view the letter and our Guiding Principles, 
please see our website at: refugeassociation.org, click on "Refuge Issues" and 
"National Bison Range." 


 Annual Funding Agreements can be a way to engage a tribe with ties to the land 
in advancing the mission of the national wildlife refuge and System. However, 
because refuges are federally-owned, the U.S. Government, through the Secretary 
of Interior and the FWS must have control over negotiating such agreements. 



  Negotiations Begin Again for New AFA at National Bison Range

 On November 26th, Department of Interior (DOI) officials gave the FWS marching 
orders - get a new Annual Funding Agreement (AFA) in place by March 28th at the 
National Bison Range (NBR) with the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribe 
(CSKT.) This, just days after a report issued by the Department of Interior's 
Office of Inspector General (OIG) said that DOI officials had exerted 
"considerable and unusual influence" over FWS in connection with the original 
AFA negotiations. The previous AFA was terminated by FWS one year ago due to 
allegations of harassment of FWS staff by tribal leaders. The report goes on to 
explain that since the beginning, there has been an overarching goal at the DOI 
to gradually turn over all FWS positions to the CSKT by the year 2010. It is 
our understanding that this would include the refuge manager's position - a 
position that by law is "inherently federal" under the Refuge Improvement Act 
and must be occupied by a FWS employee. 


 Unless FWS has a national AFA policy which can guide them in these 
negotiations, it is impossible to imagine an agreement that will not suffer 
from the same problems and issues that caused so much controversy a year ago. 
Importantly, what happens at the National Bison Range will have a direct impact 
on the legislation pending before Congress mentioned above. It is imperative 
that the FWS has a national policy to guide how these agreements are 
negotiated. 


 Visit out website to read the entire OIG report: www.refugenet.org, click on 
"refuge issues" and then "National Bison Range." 

check it out . . . there's a Streak-backed Oriole coming to a feeder in COLO 
right now!! 



sebastianpatti AT hotmail.com
Sebastian T. Patti
(Lincoln Park)
Chicago, ILLINOIS 
PHONE: 312/ (o) 773/ (h)
FAX: 312/ (o) 773/ (h)



________________________________

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:03:
From: aliciariddle AT COX.NET
Subject: Baltimore oriole
To: OKBIRDS AT lists.ou.edu







I had a male Baltimore oriole visit my birdbath Sunday morning during our sleet 
storm. 






Alicia


Edmond

I had a male Baltimore oriole visit my birdbath Sunday morning during our
sleet storm.



Alicia

Edmond

*We had a minor ice storm in Bartlesville during the night with some sleet
this morning and some more ice.  Not good weather for birds and people who
have to be out, but great weather for sitting in a warm house and watching
birds.  If today were my normal Project Feeder Watch day, I would be setting
all sorts of season records for my counts.  I had 22 Dark-eyed Juncos this
morning (four is the most I've had in my count so far this season).  There
were lots of Cardinals and Goldfinches.  I even had Goldfinches eating on
the ground, which is unusual at my house considering I have eight feeders
that they like to use.  My PFW high count this season has been 33
Goldfinches.  I probably have more today, but haven't counted them.  I had
my first White-crowned Sparrow of the season.  I had my first Brown Creeper
of the season (probably not related to my feeders and the ice storm).  I saw
the first Red-bellied Woodpecker I've seen in over a month.  I had two male
Downies vying for the same feeder instead of the normal one at a time.  I
had two Tufted Titmouses instead of the one I've been getting.  The same for
Carolina Chickadees.  Up until today, my bird visitors had been well below
my normal for the fall.  Today things look more like what I am used to.  I
hope these birds hang around for the rest of the winter.

Joe Hawkins
In the woods about 1/2 mile from Wal-Mart
Bartlesville, OK
*

Delete if not interested in wind.

Steve Sorensen
Valley Center, KS
webforbs AT cox.net


July 4, 2007 .
 
Essays,
http://www.wind-watch.org/alerts/category/locations/north-america/us/california

Source: Alexandra Weit



Wind energy - do you believe everything that you've been told?

 [   Alerts Home ]

> For 25 years we've been told what a significant contribution wind energy
> could and is making to our energy supply. Since most people have little
> knowledge of how the electrical system works, they are being misled as to
> the benefits, merits and capabilities of wind power, unfortunately, most
> have believed what they have been told.
>
> As a homeowner in the Pass for 30 years, and familiar with the wind
> patterns, I had reservations as to all the amounts of power that the wind
> developers claimed that they could generate and that this was even
> considered a "good' wind area.
>
> I began my research some years ago, as I became suspicious of all the
claims
> made by this industry, by collecting data from many knowledgeable and
> reliable sources, as well as the California Energy Commission, which at
one
> time published their actual production records.
>
> The Wind Industry's actual production records were so dismal and at
variance
> with what they projected, they lobbied the CEC into not having to reveal
> their production records anymore.
>
> Nevertheless, I still obtained 15 years of their production records and
time
> of generation from 1998 until 2006. This data confirmed what I observed
> visually,  as I can see them from my house, when they work and mostly
don't.
> Every time the wind developers went to get another permit to put up more
> windmills, the developers always stated how many MW they were installing
and
> how many homes they could provide energy for. What they would do is add
all
> their generation as if it was generated 24/7 and divide it by the average
> household. This is very misleading and deceptive, as the records indicate:
>
> Only 5-6% of their generation is at peak need time, 33% mid-peak and the
> balance of 60% when we need it the least; this off-peak generation is
deemed
> as of lesser value, and we must keep in mind that they can only generate
> about 25% of their capacity, intermittently.
>
> Another big drawback is that it is not constant. One minute it may be
> blowing and the next couple of weeks or months there may be none.
>
> Even with the volatility of wind, windmills really don't generate that
much
> power. I became curious as to exactly how much power they were
contributing
> to Edison.
>
> These are the results:

> * Wind Power has about 4,000 windmills in the San Gorgonio Pass, which
> amounts to approximately 375 MW of installed capacity.

> * Because the wind is only good enough to generate power 25% of
> capacity, their generation amounts to an average of 93.5 MW per year, that
> they sell to Edison [Edison is mandated to purchase all that they
generate].

> * Edison uses on average about 13,000 MW per year in their service
> area.

> * The astounding fact that has never been revealed is, this amounts to
> about only about 7 tenths of 1% of what Edison uses. This is all, after 25
> years of exaggerated promises.

> But, it even gets worse.

> * If you take their average annual production of about 93.5 MW and
> subtract the 60% off-peak generation, this leaves a miniscule amount of
> about 2.8 tenths of 1% that is meaningful, if you can call it that, that
is
> generated when we really need it, after billions and billions of ratepayer
> and taxpayer dollars in subsidization and even today they still get a
> portion from our monthly electric bills. I don't think the people got much
> bang for their bucks!

> * I also learned that when this "off-peak" generation can't be sold
> [because demand is low and it can't be stored] the Utility gives it away
for
> 0 cents, but pay the Wind Energy companies their contract price and charge
> this cost back to the ratepayers - legal double dipping? This off-peak
> generation is deemed as of "lesser" value. How often this happens is
another
> unknown.

> * Another finding is that wind is useless as capacity. Because of
> wind's volatile nature, the utilities need a constant, reliable source of
> power to prevent power disruptions, including in their "spinning reserve"
> which is power on standby to accommodate any instantaneous demand.

> * In order to accommodate wind into the grid, the California ISO turns
> down hydro and gas turbines [both fairly clean], because they are the
> easiest to manipulate the inconsistencies of wind power, the
unreliability,
> constant on and off and volatile nature of wind. Also, you can see how
small
> the amount of wind energy really is to the amount that Edison uses. Edison
> does not use oil. At best, there is some natural gas savings. In Public
> Hearings, they always refer to our reliance on Middle East oil and how
Wind
> Energy will help alleviate that need. Their statement is simply not true.

> * Another drawback is that wind power cannot be stored and cannot be
> called upon at will when we need it - it does not match the "time of need
> profile". So, then, exactly what good is it? Except to feel good?!

> * The bottom line is that wind energy is a duplication of capacity
> that the utilities must already have to provide a steady flow of power,
> without interruptions and blackouts. Because of wind's intermittent
nature,
> wind won't work. it is really inconsequential.

> * In Tehachapi, for many years there was a curtailment program, where
> the windmills were overbuilt for the grid which was too small to handle
the
> surge. Edison made an agreement with the wind industry to just shut the
> machines down and paid them over $12 million which was also charged back

> to the ratepayers.

> * I am very concerned that this big push by government officials for
> more wind power when I really don't think they really understand how it
> works. They can cover the entire country with windmills and they would do
> nothing for our capacity. If you stop and think about this . when the wind
> stops, then what? Edison will have to come on line with the same amount of
> power that they always need to cover the instantaneous demand, we can't be
> waiting for the wind to start blowing again.

> * But most alarming are the misleading claims and outright
> misrepresentations made by the wind industry itself, with no one verifying
> what they say.

> * Because of the wind industry, our power bills have skyrocketed and
> will continue to do so with each new windmill, while Edison can provide
the
> same power for 2 cents per kWh.

> * Unfortunately, the powers that be chose to believe the developers,
> without ever checking out their veracity or production records. Because of
> this hysteria for "green", it appears that they would rather put our power
> supply at risk and have the ratepayers pay double and triple than what is
> necessary - for an illusion.
>
> They have scraped miles and miles of desert, obliterated our views,
rendered
> adjacent property valueless and impacted us with noise and dust for this
> minuscule amount of useless energy . it is beyond belief. And they have so
> far gotten away with it.
>
> The only transmission has been the $'s from our pockets to theirs.
>
> Alexandra Weit
> Whitewater, CA 92282
> June 23, 2007

That is sad but very enlightening information. What happens when people sign
up their land for 50 to 150 years with a wind company and they don't put
turbines on their land. It has just lost it value for anything other than
wind development.
Sue Selman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sorensen" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Fw: Wind in Wisconsin:Letter to the editor


> For those interested in what happens with wind contracts. For those not,
> just hit delete!
>
> Steve Sorensen
> Valley Center, KS
> webforbs AT cox.net
>
>
>
>> November 30, 2007 .
>>  Letters,
>> 
>> Wisconsin
>>
>>
>  ld-result-in-massive-debt/>
>
> Worldwide rush for wind power could result in massive debt
>
>> [   News Watch Home ]
>>
>> As told in a recent ad, a Johnsburg (Wisconsin) farmer who will host wind
>> turbines now has many regrets.
>>
>> He regrets having been the "lure" to draw in other unsuspecting
> landowners.
>> He regrets that he has allowed fields to be subdivided, road base to be
>> spread on land once picked bare of rocks, costly tiling to be cut up. He
>> regrets that he's no longer the person who controls his own land and is
> now
>> told where to go by security guards. He regrets the divide he has created
>> between friends, between neighbors and between family members.
>>
>> He regrets not having looked into all the ramifications first. That
>> farmer
>> is now locked in to a binding contract. But there are many landowners who
>> have not yet suffered this fate.
>>
>> Calumet County Citizens for Responsible Energy asks that landowners
>> considering a contract first step back and study the issues. As with any
>> financial transaction, don't put a lot of trust in those who stand to
>> gain
>> financially.
>>
>> Look for Web sites and information from those experiencing the effects of
>> this worldwide "gold" rush for wind power. People across the world are
>> rebelling. They're finding that they've lost control of their land and
> their
>> lives. And they're in danger of financial hardship if these companies
>> dissolve.
>>
>> Our irresponsible government representatives are forcing this "windfall"
> for
>> wind investors on us. Their knee-jerk reaction to the global climate
> change
>> alarms will cause billions of dollars to be wasted, lives to be ruined,
> and
>> environments degraded for what is, in actuality, a very inefficient
>> energy
>> source.
>>
>> With a declining tax base and state and U.S. legislators driving us
> further
>> into massive debt, taxpayer subsidies for wind will be impossible to
>> maintain.
>>
>> And with the subsidies gone, what will you be left hosting?
>>
>> Don Bangert,
>>
>> Chilton
>>
>>
>>
> > 300590/1036/APCopinion> Appleton Post-Crescent
>>
>> 30 November 2007
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

For those interested in what happens with wind contracts. For those not,
just hit delete!

Steve Sorensen
Valley Center, KS
webforbs AT cox.net



> November 30, 2007 .
>  Letters,
> 
> Wisconsin
>
>


Worldwide rush for wind power could result in massive debt

> [   News Watch Home ]
>
> As told in a recent ad, a Johnsburg (Wisconsin) farmer who will host wind
> turbines now has many regrets.
>
> He regrets having been the "lure" to draw in other unsuspecting
landowners.
> He regrets that he has allowed fields to be subdivided, road base to be
> spread on land once picked bare of rocks, costly tiling to be cut up. He
> regrets that he's no longer the person who controls his own land and is
now
> told where to go by security guards. He regrets the divide he has created
> between friends, between neighbors and between family members.
>
> He regrets not having looked into all the ramifications first. That farmer
> is now locked in to a binding contract. But there are many landowners who
> have not yet suffered this fate.
>
> Calumet County Citizens for Responsible Energy asks that landowners
> considering a contract first step back and study the issues. As with any
> financial transaction, don't put a lot of trust in those who stand to gain
> financially.
>
> Look for Web sites and information from those experiencing the effects of
> this worldwide "gold" rush for wind power. People across the world are
> rebelling. They're finding that they've lost control of their land and
their
> lives. And they're in danger of financial hardship if these companies
> dissolve.
>
> Our irresponsible government representatives are forcing this "windfall"
for
> wind investors on us. Their knee-jerk reaction to the global climate
change
> alarms will cause billions of dollars to be wasted, lives to be ruined,
and
> environments degraded for what is, in actuality, a very inefficient energy
> source.
>
> With a declining tax base and state and U.S. legislators driving us
further
> into massive debt, taxpayer subsidies for wind will be impossible to
> maintain.
>
> And with the subsidies gone, what will you be left hosting?
>
> Don Bangert,
>
> Chilton
>
>
>
 300590/1036/APCopinion> Appleton Post-Crescent
>
> 30 November 2007
>
>
>
>
>

Regarding the recent discussion on OKBirds about Native American management of 
NWRs, the following is fom the latest "Capitol Flyer", which is a monthly 
newsletter from the National Wildlife Refuge Association intended to keep the 
pub;ic abreast of the latest developments affecting the National Wildlife 
Refuge System. 



Steve Sorensen
Valley Center, KS
webforbs AT cox.net


Legislation Guiding Annual Funding Agreements Introduced in House

Under the auspices of the Indian Self Determination Act, the Secretary of 
Interior, acting through the FWS, can enter into an Annual Funding Agreement 
(AFA) with a Native American Tribe, to conduct management activities on some 
national wildlife refuges. The Act is designed to promote Tribal "self 
governance" - essentially allowing Tribes to do the job of the Federal 
Government where appropriate. Passed in 1994, section 403(b) of the Act 
authorized federally recognized Indian Tribes the authority to negotiate 
funding agreements with the Department of Interior, which included some 
national wildlife refuges. Some AFAs have been very successful such as the 
agreement with the FWS and the Council of Athabascan Tribal Governments at the 
Yukon Flats NWR in Alaska. However, the 2006 agreement between the Confederated 
Salish and Kootenai Tribes at the National Bison Range was a disaster - largely 
due to the absence of a national policy on how AFAs should be administered by 
the FWS at NWRs. 


On October 30th, legislation was introduced by Representative Dan Boren (R-OK) 
and co-sponsored by Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ) and Chairman Nick Rahall (D-WV) 
of the Natural Resources Committee, to amend the Indian Self Determination Act 
to provide further self-governance for Tribes. H.R. 3994, the Department of 
Interior Tribal Self-Governance Act of 2007, is troublesome, and the NWRA 
cannot support it as written. 


NWRA submitted formal comments on the proposed bill in the form of a letter to 
Chairman Rahall explaining our position and suggesting changes to comport with 
our AFA Guiding Principles. To view the letter and our Guiding Principles, 
please see our website at: refugeassociation.org, click on "Refuge Issues" and 
"National Bison Range." 


Annual Funding Agreements can be a way to engage a tribe with ties to the land 
in advancing the mission of the national wildlife refuge and System. However, 
because refuges are federally-owned, the U.S. Government, through the Secretary 
of Interior and the FWS must have control over negotiating such agreements. 



Negotiations Begin Again for New AFA at National Bison Range

On November 26th, Department of Interior (DOI) officials gave the FWS marching 
orders - get a new Annual Funding Agreement (AFA) in place by March 28th at the 
National Bison Range (NBR) with the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribe 
(CSKT.) This, just days after a report issued by the Department of Interior's 
Office of Inspector General (OIG) said that DOI officials had exerted 
"considerable and unusual influence" over FWS in connection with the original 
AFA negotiations. The previous AFA was terminated by FWS one year ago due to 
allegations of harassment of FWS staff by tribal leaders. The report goes on to 
explain that since the beginning, there has been an overarching goal at the DOI 
to gradually turn over all FWS positions to the CSKT by the year 2010. It is 
our understanding that this would include the refuge manager's position - a 
position that by law is "inherently federal" under the Refuge Improvement Act 
and must be occupied by a FWS employee. 


Unless FWS has a national AFA policy which can guide them in these 
negotiations, it is impossible to imagine an agreement that will not suffer 
from the same problems and issues that caused so much controversy a year ago. 
Importantly, what happens at the National Bison Range will have a direct impact 
on the legislation pending before Congress mentioned above. It is imperative 
that the FWS has a national policy to guide how these agreements are 
negotiated. 


Visit out website to read the entire OIG report: www.refugenet.org, click on 
"refuge issues" and then "National Bison Range." 

Son Bucky and I visited the Slough to chase ducks yesterday.  Few
ducks to be seen but we did see:

White Ibis----34   Pool 30
Dark Ibis-------2   Pool 30
Dowitcher-----2   Pool 15
Pelicans---120   Pool 48
Least Sandpipers--17   Pool 15
Snow Geese----35  (fly over)  Too far to check for Ross's in the flock.
About 10 Sedge Wrens, 3 Marsh Wrens, and one Virginia Rail heard.

 From the Frontier

Berlin Heck
Broken Bow

Man learns from history
that man learns nothing from history

                                  Anon