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Recent Postings from
Minnesota Birding List

Updated on Friday, October 19 at 09:18 PM ET
The most recently received Mail is at the top.

The White Winged Dove was seen again this afternoon.  
See Dan's previous post for directions.

Paul

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...  just FYI.   The simple test described below may be too "unlike birding"
for many, but is an exacting test for optical performance that I prefer.

Cheap binoculars are often very good (I was an international dealer for
Celestron & Meade and used gear for 12 years before coming to MN). Expensive
binocs often have been abused and are not in proper alignment so don't
perform well. Some expensive binocs have inconsistent alignment quality in a
store because of handling in shipping or in the store, etc. I'd never buy a
pair of binocs unless I had the option to test them at night under a fairly
dark sky..

The best and most useful "field test" I ever found was to view Jupiter when
it's kinda overhead: if you can resolve the 4 "Galilean moons" with crisp,
color-free, high-contrast pin-point images (when all 4 are visible - which
is very often) the binoculars are good and in alignment. Moving the image of
a satellite from center to edge is a way to check eyepiece performance, for
example.  Eyepiece type selection is important, and some models come in
either "high quality normal" eyepieces or "wide angle" eyepieces that look
panoramic, but aren't so "sharp".  As our eyes age or as we need eyeglasses
(eg, for astigmatic corrections), the criteria of "good enough" can shift a
bunch.  Seeing conditions must be decent or good, however. That's a "no BS"
verification of actual optical quality.

Atmospherics always make Venus show color, so don't confuse that case.
Binocular price often has little to do with actual optical quality, in my
experience. This "Jupiter test" certainly applies for birding uses as well,
but is more stringent or "unlike birding" than many birders may care for.



Chuck



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For the first time ever, we have Pine Siskins in our backyard.  I don't
think they'll stick around long though; the Goldfinches keep chasing
them off.
 
Other seasonal treats:
 
Fox Sparrow
White-throated Sparrow
White-crowned Sparrow
Red-breasted Nuthatch
Dark-eyed Junco
 
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I've been birding four the past four years with a pair of Brunton 
10x42. I believe they retail for about $280-300. They are waterproof 
and surprisingly good for the money.

Kelly Larson
Bagley/Bemidji, MN


On Oct 16, 2007, at 10:03 AM, Sharon Stiteler wrote:

> I respectfully disagree with Mr. Wood.� You can get surprisingly good 
> optics for under $300.� The technologies for producing optics has 
> changed dramatically in the last five years.� For under $300, I 
> recommend checking out:
>
> Stokes�Talon
> Vortex Sidewinder
> Nikon Monarchs
> Audubon Equinox HP (make sure it has the HP, the regular Audubon 
> Equinox is not as good)
> Eagle Optics Ranger SRT
>
> These are all great optics for the price and have lifetime no fault 
> warranties.� I no longer work for Eagle Optics and none of brands 
> companies are sponsors of my blog, so i have no vested interest in 
> recommending them.� They are just really good optics for under $300.
>
>
>
> Sharon Stiteler
> www.birdchick.com
> www.disapprovingrabbits.com
> Minneapolis, MN
>
>
>
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:11 AM, RICHARD JILL WOOD wrote:
>
>> www.eagleoptics.com. Try to avoid the lesser known brands, however.
>>
>> They do have a pair of Nikon Monarchs 8 by 42 for $290, which I 
>> suppose are decent. I would prefer a pair of Zeiss', myself.
>>
>> On a related question, does anybody know who makes Bausch and Lomb's 
>> binoculars now? I have a pair of theirs and I love them, but I know 
>> they no longer make binocs.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:24:
>>> From: deadcandaneus2000 AT yahoo.com
>>> To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
>>> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any 
>>> suggestions.i know i want 8x42
>>> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone 
>>> who knows.
>>> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>> Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live 
>> OneCare! Try now!
>> _______________________________________________
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>> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
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> _______________________________________________
> mnbird mailing list
> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird_______________________________________________
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74 species over the last week (Saturday & following) in Sherburne & Mille 
Lacs Counties:

* 11 sparrow species (counting Lapland Longspur & Snow Bunting), somehow 
missed Tree this week, Harris' seemingly through

* Still only nine waterfowl species, anticipate this will increase shortly

* Three warblers (YR, Orange-crowned, Palm)

* Two shorebirds (Killdeer & Black-bellied Plover)

* Sizeable flock of Rusty Blackbirds (200+) on the Sherburne NWR Auto Tour

* Saturday's Boreal Chickadees along the Mille Lacs lakefront certainly the 
highlight.

Good birding to all!

Al Schirmacher
Princeton, MN
Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties 

74 species over the last week (Saturday & following) in Sherburne & Mille 
Lacs Counties:

* 11 sparrow species (counting Lapland Longspur & Snow Bunting), somehow 
missed Tree this week, Harris' seemingly through

* Still only nine waterfowl species, anticipate this will increase shortly

* Three warblers (YR, Orange-crowned, Palm)

* Two shorebirds (Killdeer & Black-bellied Plover)

* Sizeable flock of Rusty Blackbirds (200+) on the Sherburne NWR Auto Tour

* Saturday's Boreal Chickadees along the Mille Lacs lakefront certainly the 
highlight.

Good birding to all!

Al Schirmacher
Princeton, MN
Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties 

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Mark Junghans & John Ellis refound the White-winged Dove at the previously 
posted address in Otter Tail County. Mark & John want to thank their gracious 
hosts. 

Please refer to previous post as to the instructions and exact location.
 
                                    Jim Otto
 
                  
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http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033 

Mark Junghans & John Ellis refound the White-winged Dove at the previously 
posted address in Otter Tail County. Mark & John want to thank their gracious 
hosts. 

Please refer to previous post as to the instructions and exact location.
 
                                    Jim Otto
 
                  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook � together at last. �Get it 
now. 


http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033 
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This is the Northwest Minnesota Birding Report for Thursday, October 18,
2007 sponsored by the Detroit Lakes Regional Chamber of Commerce. You
may also hear this report by calling  or .

We are definitely in transition to winter now in the northwest - rains
are cold, winds high, and skies are often gloomy, punctuated by
occasional magical sunny warm days that make us forget how unpleasant
some fall weather can be. Migration is winding down with only a few new
species being seen now.

The big news this week is a WHITE-WINGED DOVE reported by Dan and Sandy
Thimgan in Otter Tail County 10 miles north of Fergus Falls at the home
of Marilyn Sanchez. She has agreed to allow birders to visit and can be
reached at  for updates and directions.

Ben Fritchman reported 5 SURF SCOTERS, and 2 BLACK SCOTERS on Lake
Osakis in Todd County on October 14, and John Kroll found two
LONG-TAILED DUCKS there on October 16 when he went to look for the
scoters.

In Greenbush, Roseau County, on October 15, Russ Reisz saw a
BLACK-BACKED WOODPECKER in his yard, along with a number of BLACK-CAPPED
CHICKADEES,  GOLDEN-CROWNED KINGLETS, and BROWN CREEPERS.

Larry Wilebski in Kittson County reported a SNOW BUNTING on October 14
and a SHARP-SHINNED HAWK on October 15.

On October 13 Andrew Birch reported a LONG-TAILED DUCK on Leech Lake in
Cass County 3 miles north of Pelican Island, and a SURF SCOTER in front
of Huddle's Resort on Leech Lake. On the 16th, Dale Yerger saw two adult
LITTLE GULLS with the BONAPARTE'S GULLS at the Cass Lake WTP.

Russ Reisz , in Marshall County on October 15 reported BLUE-WINGED TEAL
at Thief Lake WMA, and on the 19th, he saw WESTERN GREBE, GREAT EGRET,
and SNOW BUNTINGS there. The October 14 shorebird survey at Agassiz NWR
found 458 individuals of 11 species including 13 BLACK-BELLIED PLOVERS,
a melanistic AMERICAN GOLDEN-PLOVER, and 214 PECTORAL SANDPIPERS
scattered all over the refuge with most at Tamarac Pool and Webster
Pool. Other species seen included SNOW GOOSE, COMMON GOLDENEYE, and a
SHARP-SHINNED HAWK. Gary Tischer mentioned the first ROUGH-LEGGED HAWK,
and 100 SNOW BUNTINGS seen on October 10. A pair of TRUMPETER SWANS with
6 cygnets were found near Thief Bay Pool that day also. Gary reported
the presence of 400 TUNDRA SWANS, and 10000 AMERICAN COOTS currently at
the refuge among a good variety of ducks.

Mel and Elaine Bennefeld in Clay County reported RED-BREASTED NUTHATCH
and PURPLE FINCH at the Ponderosa Gold Club near Buffalo River State
Park on October 16.

Dan and Sandy Thimgan reported that sparrows were many in Otter Tail
County on October 11, including all the common late fall migrants; at
Battle Lake WTP there was a variety of ducks and some BONAPARTE'S GULLS.
Kim Eckert's Minnesota Birding Weekend group found many species
including GREAT EGRET, BLACK-CROWNED NIGHT-HERON, BLACK-BELLIED PLOVER,
AMERICAN GOLDEN-PLOVER, DUNLIN, RED-BELLIED WOODPECKER, NORTHERN SHRIKE,
BROWN CREEPER, RED-BREASTED NUTHATCH, MARSH WREN, both kinglets,
AMERICAN PIPIT, LINCOLN'S SPARROW, and LAPLAND LONGSPUR. Teresa
Jaskiewicz mentioned AMERICAN TREE SPARROW, and PINE SISKINS also in
Otter Tail County.

The Minnesota Birding Weekend group in Wilkin County found 2 SURF
SCOTERS at the Breckenridge WTP. Other species seen on the weekend in
Wilkin County included 2 EARED GREBES, PILEATED WOODPECKER, an unusual
number of BLACK-CAPPED CHICKADEES, both kinglets, RED-BREASTED NUTHATCH,
HERMIT THRUSH, ORANGE-CROWNED WARBLER, YELLOW-RUMPED WARBLER, LE CONTE'S
SPARROW, and FOX SPARROW among many other species.

Thanks to Andrew Birch, Ben Fritchman, Dale Yerger, Mel and Elaine
Bennefeld, Gary Tischer, Larry Wilebski, Kim Eckert, Russ Reisz, Teresa
Jaskiewicz, and Dan and Sandy Thimgan for their reports.

Please report bird sightings to Jeanie Joppru by email, no later than
Thursday each week, at ajjoppru AT wiktel.com  OR call the Detroit Lakes
Chamber's toll free number: . Detroit Lakes area birders
please call . Please include the county where the sighting took
place. The next scheduled update of this report is Thursday, October 25,
2007.

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This is the Duluth Birding Report for Thursday, October 18th, 2007 
sponsored by the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union.

At least three different RED-THROATED LOONS are still being seen at 
Park Point, including an adult and a juvenile on the 17th at the 
recreation area bath house, and one adult at the same time at the 
Lafayette Square 31st Street access.  Dedrick Benz and John Hockema 
found three WHITE-WINGED SCOTERS at the Park Point rowing club on the 
13th, and relocated the adult LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL on the 12th on 
the Minnesota side of the Superior Entry.  They also saw a BLACK 
SCOTER fly by the bath house on the 13th.  Denny and Barb Martin 
reported a juvenile SABINE'S GULL at the bath house on the 15th. They 
also had a LONG-TAILED DUCK fly by the McQuade Road access on the 
15th.  Another LONG-TAILED DUCK was seen at Lafayette Square on Park 
Point on the 17th.

An immature ROSS'S GOOSE was seen on the 13th and 14th west of Two 
Harbors, along the Stanley Road (CR 9), 3.2 miles west of the Highway 
61 4-lane expressway.  Jan Green saw what was probably the same bird 
on the 16th at the Two Harbors golf course near the maintenance 
garage.  It was seen again on the 17th along CR 2 near the Two 
Harbors arena.

Twenty-one BLACK-BACKED WOODPECKERS flew by the Hawk Ridge overlook 
on the 13th.  Four more were seen at the overlook on the 14th and 
three were seen on the 15th.  Janet Riegle found a female Black-
backed on the 12th in the red pine woods at Hawk Ridge, along the 
Superior Hiking Trail north of Skyline Drive.  One was also caught at 
the banding station on the 17th.  The first PINE GROSBEAK and SNOW 
BUNTING of the season flew by the overlook on the 11th.

Shawn Conrad found more than a dozen BLACK-BACKED WOODPECKERS this 
week in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area off the Gunflint Trail (CR 
12), including birds seen at Leg Lake, Brant Lake, and Round Lake.  
Shawn also saw an AMERICAN THREE-TOED WOODPECKER at the north end of 
Gabimichigami Lake and BOREAL CHICKADEES at Bat Lake and at the Round 
Lake access.  The woodpeckers were found in areas burned by the Ham 
Lake Fire.

Dedrick Benz and John Hockema found an AMERICAN THREE-TOED WOODPECKER 
on the 15th at the Silver Bay Marina parking lot.  They found a 
BOREAL CHICKADEE on the 14th at the Sugarloaf Cove nature trail 
between markers 7 & 8, and a flock of about 50 BOHEMIAN WAXWINGS in 
Grand Marais.

The next scheduled update of this report will be on Thursday, October 
25th.  The telephone number of the Duluth Rare Bird Alert is .  Information about bird sightings may be left following the 
recorded message.

The Duluth Birding Report is sponsored and funded by the Minnesota 
Ornithologists' Union (MOU) as a service to its members. For more 
information on the MOU, either write us c/o the Bell Museum, e-mail 
us at mou AT moumn.org, or visit the MOU web site at moumn.org.
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> HAWK RIDGE
> DULUTH, MN
> 
> The Upcoming Weekend:
> Fun, fun, fun with FAMILIES!  We're looking forward to a wonderful
> weekend, weather-wise, bird-wise and visitor-wise, because it's MEA
> weekend.  Yep, that's right�families all over the state are headed out for
> a long weekend of fun and we're hoping a bunch of them stop up at the
> ridge.  Here's a peek at what's on the menu (all offerings are free and
> meet at the main overlook):
> 
> Nest Box Building
> Due to the great response we had last year, we are again offering nest box
> building at the overlook.  The materials were donated by The Home Depot
> and time to prepare the kits was donated by our fantastic volunteers.  The
> boxes are FREE and we've got all the tools to make 'em on the spot.  And
> band-aids for folks that are less-than-handy with a hammer.  
> 
> Songbird Stroll 
> Saturday, October 20
> 7:30 a.m.
> 
> Snags & Deadfalls 
> Saturday, October 20
> 11 a.m.
>  
> Eyes on the Skies: hawkwatching for beginners
> Saturday, October 20
> 1 p.m.
>  
> Night & Day: owl adaptations
> OWL RELEASE!  A rehabilitated Northern Saw-whet Owl will be released back
> into the wild after the program.  Bring your camera!
> Saturday, October 20
> 9 p.m.
> 
> Eyes on the Skies: hawkwatching for beginners
> Sunday, October 21
> 11 a.m.
>  
> Veggie Trails
> Sunday, October 21
> 1 p.m.
> 
> Happy hawkwatching!
> Debbie
> 
> __________________________ 
> Debbie Waters
> Education Director
> Hawk Ridge Bird Observatory
> P.O. Box 3006
> Duluth, MN  
> 
> dwaters AT hawkridge.org 
> www.hawkridge.org 
> 
> What's the current fall raptor count? 
> www.hawkcount.org/month_summary.php?rsite=288 
> 
> Need info on visiting Hawk Ridge? 
> www.hawkridge.org/visit/visit.html 
> 
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Greetings.  Sparrow activity high despite the constant rain in the back 
yard, saw both WT and a Harris mixed with the house sparrows and house 
finches and juncos over the past couple of afternoons.  Treats today 
were a Brown Thrasher joining in scavenging seed below the feeder early 
this morning; and just a few minutes ago, while watching a chickadee 
feeding on the peanut feeder in the apple tree, a smaller olive bird 
flipped through and paused on a branch right in front of me: a RC 
Kinglet!  Amused by the birds--wet as they are--still coming to the pond 
for drinks and a quick bath.  Cindy in N. Mankato
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> I find it sad and disturbing how we can start a very informative discussion 
where ALL can learn something, 

> only to have it made personal with insults comparable to grade school antics. 

> Ego-Optics.com is a great place to shop and I bet they have a wonderful 
listserve too! 

>     Enough !!
> 
>   Cathy Gagliardi

"Ego-Optics.com" - Perfect! I must remember that one.
As usual it takes a women to put things in perspective. We men do get a
bit sensitive about protecting our real or perceived "territories".

Having said that some practical advice for those looking for bins in the
under $300 range...

... they might want to consider buying porro prism rather than roof
prism bins. All else being equal a porro bin will outperform a roof,
optically, especially at the low end of the price range.

I have a pair of Nikon Action 7x35s (55 bucks delivered to my door). The
on axis optical performance is about as good as my 7x42 Zeiss. Another
good example of a high quality porro would be the Swift Ultralites. If
you really wanted a no holds barred optical performance bin you could
take a look at the Nikon Superior Es - optically nothing better
regardless of type or price and a porro prism as well

Also I have a pair of Bushnell Excursion 8x28 roofs. Very decent and one
of my favorites because of their ergonomics - the perfect grab and go
bins. $89 with free shipping from Eagle Optics.

I say this also owning a pair of Zeiss 7x42s and a Leica 8x32.

At the end of the day it's the birds you will remember not the bins you
were using.

Art

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Pipit? Any pipit?

Tom Guttormsson
On the banks of the Yellow Medicine River
Minneota, Lyon County, Minnesota
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On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:

>
> I have lost track of the number of pairs of binoculars that I have owned
> since 1970.  The few times I have tried 7x glasses they always came across
> as having inadequate magnification for most birding applications.  They
> might be okay for close-in situations.  The jump from 7x to 8x is a
> significant enough jump to make birds further away just that much easier to
> ID.  In my case depending on the situation I use either a 10x40 or a 10x32
> glass.

  Most people who I've heard from haven't seen a significant difference
between the 8x and 7x in terms of detail seen.  Of course, your mileage
may vary.  However, in the case of the Fujinon CD the specs are clearly
better for the 7x42 model.

Brooks
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For the record I do use my camera to bird a lot more then I use my binos. So I 
am prolly not a good example of a typical birder. What Sharon says makes sense 
because I can not effectively hand hold my scope either, but my 20x 60 binos 
are not as long as a scope and so they are easier to hold. Maybe part of the 
reason why I do not have trouble hand holding such high powered binos is 
because I am used to hand holding a SLR camera with a 100 to 400 mm lens. The 
20x60 binos are small and light compared to the camera. So like Sharon suggests 
the best advice is to find out what works best for you. Maybe look for a 
retailer who has a good return policy and keep your receipt and packaging. Then 
when you get a pair go out and do some birding and decide if they will work for 
you. If possible take them on a long outing because carrying them for a long 
period of time may be factor in to your final decision. The bino harnesses are 
also a nice thing to have for those 

 long outings. Good luck I hope that you find a pair that will work for you

Jeff Fischer
http://ecobirder.blogspot.com/

----- Original Message ----
From: Sharon Stiteler 
To: jeff fischer 
Cc: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 10:45:05 AM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] Time for a physics lesson?

Jeff is a rare individual. Many people (myself included) would not be able to 
use that type of magnification without a tripod. My spotting scope starts at 20 
power magnification and there's no way I could see through it, much less 
digiscope without a tripod--heck I even need an adaptor for my digital camera 
to hold it steady on the scope. Remember, the higher power magnification you 
have, the smaller field of view you will have and it will pick up more 
vibrations (hand shaking, breathing, wind). As I said earlier, I can't do any 
higher than 8 power, because even at a 10 power, I can notice a vibration from 
my hands holding the optics. 



I heard Pete Dunne talking about a study that said with higher magnification, 
you jiggle so much (and you may not even realize it) that you can miss key 
field marks and that 7 power is the way to go because, yes the bird is farther 
away, but the image is steadier and the margi for error is reduced. 



This is another example of how subjective optics can be and how there's not one 
optic for everybody. Jeff and I have opposite optics equation wise: 8X32 vs 
20x60. It would be fun to do a side by side comparison. And remember, it's not 
he power of your magnification, but how you use it. 



:)



Sharon Stiteler
www.birdchick.com
Minneapolis, MN








On Oct 17, 2007, at 10:28 AM, jeff fischer wrote:


I use Pentex 20x60. I am not sure of the cost because they were a gift. I 
personally would not bother with anything as low as 8x or 10x unless it was 
very inexpensive. For that slight of a magnification I would prolly buy a 
digital camera instead. You can get a digital camera with a 10x or 12x optical 
lens for under $250 then you can not only see the birds you can also get 
pictures. You also get the added value of an auto focus which helps when the 
birds are flying from branch to branch. I use my camera for subjects in the 10x 
to 14x range and my binos for further out, and contrary to popular belief I 
have not had any problems hand holding 20x binos. 

 
Thanks,
Jeff Fischer
http://ecobirder.blogspot.com/
 


----- Original Message ----
From: Richard Wood 
To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:41:19 PM
Subject: [mnbird] Time for a physics lesson?


8 IS the magnification which the ratio of the virtual image to the real image, 
and is related to the FOCAL LENGTH (the distance between two lenses) of the 
binoc. Thus the virtual image is 8 times the size of the real image. The bigger 
the entrance lens is, the more light that is let in and the brighter is the 
image. So, even though I'm not up on which part is called what, I can still 
out-physics and math the entire bird list. 


Richard

 
Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
Hastings, MN
rwoodphd AT yahoo.com 



----- Original Message ----
From: Sharon Stiteler 
To: Richard Wood 
Cc: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:23:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars


Here is what the binocular equation means:


In 8X42, the first number is the magnification, so the binocular will bring the 
image eight times closer. It has nothing to do with light gathering ability. 
The second number is the diameter in millimeters of the objective lens (the 
large lens), this gives you an idea of how much light the binocular will bring 
in--the higher the number, the more light gathering capability--the objective 
lens has nothing to do with field of view. 



Many birders like the 8 powers because it brings the image close, but still 
allows a good field of view. Some people like the 10 powers, but when you have 
more magnification, it can pick up more movement, like hand shaking. I drink 
way too much coffee to use a 10 power. 



When you see binoculars that are the same equation, but are a higher price, you 
are paying for quality of glass, the way the glass is cut, and the types of 
coatings used on the lenses and prisms--all can affect the light gathering 
ability. So, an 8x42 Swarovski EL is going to give you a much brighter and true 
image in low light conditions (cloudy days, dawn and dusk) than an 8x42 Vortex 
Sidewinder. 



The important thing is try out many different optic brands and equations. There 
is no such thing as one brand or equation that suits every birder out there. 
What works for me, doesn't always work for everyone else and vice versa. 
Personally, I'm currently using Swarovski 8x32 ELs which I highly recommend, 
but I do know some people who find them too small for their hands. 






Sharon Stiteler
www.birdchick.com
Minneapolis, MN








On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Richard Wood wrote:


More light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps?

Richard

 
Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
Hastings, MN
rwoodphd AT yahoo.com 



----- Original Message ----
From: bkr 
To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars



On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:

> From: scott henkemeyer 
> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
> suggestions.i know i want 8x42


  These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on closeout
at Eagle Optics:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571

  They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best specs.
I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.

Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price, made in Japan
Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics

  These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade Montana.
All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100 more for
the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html

(BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb 
Discoverer.) 


Brooks

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Cathy is right!    If you wish to continue this discussion, please make
helpful suggestions to other birders so they can learn.

I have had complaints from as far away as Texas on some of the people
who made posts in this thread.

 

________________________________

 

I find it sad and disturbing how we can start a very informative
discussion where ALL can learn something,

 only to have it made personal with insults comparable to grade school
antics. 

  Ego-Optics.com is a great place to shop and I bet they have a
wonderful listserve too!

    Enough !!

 

  Cathy Gagliardi

 
_______________________________________________
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mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

The last time I consulted a dictionary watts were a measure of electrical
power and lumens were a measure light. Where have I gone wrong?
-- 
Bernard P. Friel
Web Page - http://www.wampy.com  ;  http://www.agpix.com/bernardpfriel

http://myloupe.com/home/found_photographer.php?photographer=1113



From: Chuck Cole 
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:38:
To: 
Subject: RE: [mnbird] Time for a physics lesson?

Wood has his high school optics wrong again.   This was a discussion of two
binocs each having 42mm entrance, but differing by magnification.  The light
into these is identical... the same watts per sq meter input.  The exit
pupil  42/8 or 42/7 determines how bright the image is perceived by the eye,
and 43/7 is bigger and brighter... ie, more watts per sq meter at the eye.
It's basic physics and optics.
 
Wood must have meant he can take a physic better than others on the list.
Seems to need it    :-)
 
 
Chuck
   (much more professional credential for optics)
 
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From:  mnbird-bounces AT lists.mnbird.net
> [mailto:mnbird-bounces AT lists.mnbird.net]On  Behalf Of Richard Wood
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:41  PM
> To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> Subject: [mnbird] Time for  a physics lesson?
> 
>  
> 8 IS the  magnification which the ratio of the virtual image to the real
> image, and is  related to the FOCAL LENGTH (the distance between two lenses)
> of the binoc. Thus the virtual image is 8 times the size of the real image. 

> The bigger the entrance lens is, the more light that is let in  and the
> brighter is the image.  So, even though I'm not up on which part  is called
> what, I can still out-physics and math the entire bird  list.
> 
> Richard
>  
>  
> Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
> Hastings, MN
> rwoodphd AT yahoo.com
> 
> 
>  
> -----  Original Message ----
> From: Sharon Stiteler  
> To: Richard Wood  
> Cc: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> Sent: Tuesday,  October 16, 2007 7:23:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars
> 
>  
> Here is what the binocular equation means:
>  
> 
>  
> In 8X42, the first number is the magnification, so the binocular will  bring
> the image eight times closer.  It has nothing to do with light  gathering
> ability.  The second number is the diameter in millimeters of  the objective
> lens (the large lens), this gives you an idea of how much light the binocular 

> will bring in--the higher the number, the more light gathering
> capability--the objective lens has nothing to do with field of view.
>  
> 
>  
> Many birders like the 8 powers because it brings the image close, but  still
> allows a good field of view.  Some people like the 10 powers, but  when you
> have more magnification, it can pick up more movement, like hand  shaking.  I
> drink way too much coffee to use a 10 power.
>  
> 
>  
> When you see binoculars that are the same equation, but are a higher  price,
> you are paying for quality of glass, the way the glass is cut, and the  types
> of coatings used on the lenses and prisms--all can affect the light gathering 

> ability.  So, an 8x42 Swarovski EL is going to give you a much  brighter and
> true image in low light conditions (cloudy days, dawn and dusk)  than an 8x42
> Vortex Sidewinder.
>  
> 
>  
> The important thing is try out many different optic brands and equations.
> There is no such thing as one brand or equation that suits every birder  out
> there.  What works for me, doesn't always work for everyone else and  vice
> versa.  Personally, I'm currently using Swarovski 8x32 ELs which I  highly
> recommend, but I do know some people who find them too small for their hands. 

>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> Sharon Stiteler
>  
> www.birdchick.com 
>  
> Minneapolis, MN
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Richard Wood wrote:
> 
>  
>>  
>> More  light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps?
>> 
>> Richard
>>  
>>  
>> Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
>> Hastings, MN
>> rwoodphd AT yahoo.com
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> -----  Original Message ----
>> From: bkr 
>> To:  mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21:58  PM
>> Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net  wrote:
>> 
>>> > From: scott henkemeyer 
>>> >  Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> >
>>> > I'm looking for a new pair of  bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
>>> > suggestions.i know i want  8x42
>> 
>> 
>> These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on closeout 

>> at Eagle Optics:
>> 
>> http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571
>> 
>>    They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best specs.
>> I  can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.
>> 
>> Pros:  Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price, made in
>> Japan
>> Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class  optics
>> 
>>   These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer  and Meade Montana.
>> All of these models can be found at closeout  prices.  I paid $100 more for
>> the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version  back in August:
>> 
>> http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html
>> 
>> (BTW,  these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb
>> Discoverer.)
>> 
>> Brooks
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> mnbird  mailing list
>> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
>> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places
>> 
> cjlpBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BHBvcwM1BHNlYwNncm91cHMEc2xrA2VtYWlsLW5jbQ--> on Yahoo!
>> Travel.  
>> _______________________________________________
>>  
>> mnbird mailing list
>>  
>> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
>>  
>> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
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> 
 JoNDllBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BHBvcwMxMwRzZWMDZ3JvdXBzBHNsawNlbWFpbC1uY20->  with
> Yahoo! FareChase.


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Jeff is a rare individual.  Many people (myself included) would not   
be able to use that type of magnification without a tripod.  My  
spotting scope starts at 20 power magnification and there's no way I  
could see through it, much less digiscope without a tripod--heck I  
even need an adaptor for my digital camera to hold it steady on the  
scope.  Remember, the higher power magnification you have, the  
smaller field of view you will have and it will pick up more  
vibrations (hand shaking, breathing, wind).  As I said earlier, I  
can't do any higher than 8 power, because even at a 10 power, I can  
notice a vibration from my hands holding the optics.

I heard Pete Dunne talking about a study that said with higher  
magnification, you jiggle so much (and you may not even realize it)   
that you can miss key field marks and that 7 power is the way to go  
because, yes the bird is farther away, but the image is steadier and  
the margi for error is reduced.

This is another example of how subjective optics can be and how  
there's not one optic for everybody.  Jeff and I have opposite optics  
equation wise:  8X32 vs 20x60.  It would be fun to do a side by side  
comparison.  And remember, it's not he power of your magnification,  
but how you use it.

:)


Sharon Stiteler
www.birdchick.com
Minneapolis, MN




On Oct 17, 2007, at 10:28 AM, jeff fischer wrote:

> I use Pentex 20x60. I am not sure of the cost because they were a  
> gift. I personally would not bother with anything as low as 8x or  
> 10x unless it was very inexpensive. For that slight of a  
> magnification I would prolly buy a digital camera instead. You can  
> get a digital camera with a 10x or 12x optical lens for under $250  
> then you can not only see the birds you can also get pictures. You  
> also get the added value of an auto focus which helps when the  
> birds are flying from branch to branch. I use my camera for  
> subjects in the 10x to 14x range and my binos for further out, and  
> contrary to popular belief I have not had any problems hand holding  
> 20x binos.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff Fischer
> http://ecobirder.blogspot.com/
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Richard Wood 
> To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:41:19 PM
> Subject: [mnbird] Time for a physics lesson?
>
> 8 IS the magnification which the ratio of the virtual image to the  
> real image, and is related to the FOCAL LENGTH (the distance  
> between two lenses) of the binoc.  Thus the virtual image is 8  
> times the size of the real image.  The bigger the entrance lens is,  
> the more light that is let in and the brighter is the image.  So,  
> even though I'm not up on which part is called what, I can still  
> out-physics and math the entire bird list.
>
> Richard
>
> Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
> Hastings, MN
> rwoodphd AT yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Sharon Stiteler 
> To: Richard Wood 
> Cc: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:23:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars
>
> Here is what the binocular equation means:
>
> In 8X42, the first number is the magnification, so the binocular  
> will bring the image eight times closer.  It has nothing to do with  
> light gathering ability.  The second number is the diameter in  
> millimeters of the objective lens (the large lens), this gives you  
> an idea of how much light the binocular will bring in--the higher  
> the number, the more light gathering capability--the objective lens  
> has nothing to do with field of view.
>
> Many birders like the 8 powers because it brings the image close,  
> but still allows a good field of view.  Some people like the 10  
> powers, but when you have more magnification, it can pick up more  
> movement, like hand shaking.  I drink way too much coffee to use a  
> 10 power.
>
> When you see binoculars that are the same equation, but are a  
> higher price, you are paying for quality of glass, the way the  
> glass is cut, and the types of coatings used on the lenses and  
> prisms--all can affect the light gathering ability.  So, an 8x42  
> Swarovski EL is going to give you a much brighter and true image in  
> low light conditions (cloudy days, dawn and dusk) than an 8x42   
> Vortex Sidewinder.
>
> The important thing is try out many different optic brands and  
> equations.  There is no such thing as one brand or equation that  
> suits every birder out there.  What works for me, doesn't always  
> work for everyone else and vice versa.  Personally, I'm currently  
> using Swarovski 8x32 ELs which I highly recommend, but I do know  
> some people who find them too small for their hands.
>
>
>
> Sharon Stiteler
> www.birdchick.com
> Minneapolis, MN
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Richard Wood wrote:
>
>> More light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps?
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
>> Hastings, MN
>> rwoodphd AT yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: bkr 
>> To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:
>>
>> > From: scott henkemeyer 
>> > Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> > I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
>> > suggestions.i know i want 8x42
>>
>>
>>   These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190  
>> on closeout
>> at Eagle Optics:
>>
>> http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571
>>
>>   They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best  
>> specs.
>> I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.
>>
>> Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price,  
>> made in Japan
>> Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics
>>
>>   These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade  
>> Montana.
>> All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100  
>> more for
>> the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:
>>
>> http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html
>>
>> (BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch &  
>> Lomb Discoverer.)
>>
>> Brooks
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mnbird mailing list
>> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
>> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird
>>
>>
>> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mnbird mailing list
>> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
>> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird
>
>
>
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with  
> Yahoo! FareChase.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

I use Pentex 20x60. I am not sure of the cost because they were a gift. I 
personally would not bother with anything as low as 8x or 10x unless it was 
very inexpensive. For that slight of a magnification I would prolly buy a 
digital camera instead. You can get a digital camera with a 10x or 12x optical 
lens for under $250 then you can not only see the birds you can also get 
pictures. You also get the added value of an auto focus which helps when the 
birds are flying from branch to branch. I use my camera for subjects in the 10x 
to 14x range and my binos for further out, and contrary to popular belief I 
have not had any problems hand holding 20x binos. 


Thanks,
Jeff Fischer
http://ecobirder.blogspot.com/



----- Original Message ----
From: Richard Wood 
To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:41:19 PM
Subject: [mnbird] Time for a physics lesson?


8 IS the magnification which the ratio of the virtual image to the real image, 
and is related to the FOCAL LENGTH (the distance between two lenses) of the 
binoc. Thus the virtual image is 8 times the size of the real image. The bigger 
the entrance lens is, the more light that is let in and the brighter is the 
image. So, even though I'm not up on which part is called what, I can still 
out-physics and math the entire bird list. 


Richard

 
Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
Hastings, MN
rwoodphd AT yahoo.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Sharon Stiteler 
To: Richard Wood 
Cc: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:23:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars


Here is what the binocular equation means:


In 8X42, the first number is the magnification, so the binocular will bring the 
image eight times closer. It has nothing to do with light gathering ability. 
The second number is the diameter in millimeters of the objective lens (the 
large lens), this gives you an idea of how much light the binocular will bring 
in--the higher the number, the more light gathering capability--the objective 
lens has nothing to do with field of view. 



Many birders like the 8 powers because it brings the image close, but still 
allows a good field of view. Some people like the 10 powers, but when you have 
more magnification, it can pick up more movement, like hand shaking. I drink 
way too much coffee to use a 10 power. 



When you see binoculars that are the same equation, but are a higher price, you 
are paying for quality of glass, the way the glass is cut, and the types of 
coatings used on the lenses and prisms--all can affect the light gathering 
ability. So, an 8x42 Swarovski EL is going to give you a much brighter and true 
image in low light conditions (cloudy days, dawn and dusk) than an 8x42 Vortex 
Sidewinder. 



The important thing is try out many different optic brands and equations. There 
is no such thing as one brand or equation that suits every birder out there. 
What works for me, doesn't always work for everyone else and vice versa. 
Personally, I'm currently using Swarovski 8x32 ELs which I highly recommend, 
but I do know some people who find them too small for their hands. 






Sharon Stiteler
www.birdchick.com
Minneapolis, MN








On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Richard Wood wrote:


More light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps?

Richard

 
Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
Hastings, MN
rwoodphd AT yahoo.com



----- Original Message ----
From: bkr 
To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars



On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:

> From: scott henkemeyer 
> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
> suggestions.i know i want 8x42


  These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on closeout
at Eagle Optics:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571

  They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best specs.
I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.

Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price, made in Japan
Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics

  These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade Montana.
All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100 more for
the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html

(BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb 
Discoverer.) 


Brooks

_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird






Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. 
_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird







Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase. 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

"Nemesis birds" shared by birders in last 24 hours:

* Connecticut Warbler
* Burrowing Owl
* Pectoral Sandpiper
* Saw-whet Owl
* GWF Goose
* YB Cuckoo
* Purple Finch
* Lapland Longspur
* Sabine's Gull
* Pileated Woodpecker
* Ruff
* Harpy Eagle
* Spruce Grouse
* Painted Bunting
* Boreal Owl
* Henslow's Sparrow
* Boreal Chickadee.

Note that the degree of rarity varies.  In one case, a nemesis took 30 years 
to find (guess which one).  Others are still being chased after 10-14 years.

The stories have been great!

Al Schirmacher
Princeton, MN
Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties 

"Nemesis birds" shared by birders in last 24 hours:

* Connecticut Warbler
* Burrowing Owl
* Pectoral Sandpiper
* Saw-whet Owl
* GWF Goose
* YB Cuckoo
* Purple Finch
* Lapland Longspur
* Sabine's Gull
* Pileated Woodpecker
* Ruff
* Harpy Eagle
* Spruce Grouse
* Painted Bunting
* Boreal Owl
* Henslow's Sparrow
* Boreal Chickadee.

Note that the degree of rarity varies.  In one case, a nemesis took 30 years 
to find (guess which one).  Others are still being chased after 10-14 years.

The stories have been great!

Al Schirmacher
Princeton, MN
Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties 

_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

I find it sad and disturbing how we can start a very informative discussion 
where ALL can learn something, 

 only to have it made personal with insults comparable to grade school antics. 
 Ego-Optics.com is a great place to shop and I bet they have a wonderful 
listserve too! 

    Enough !!

  Cathy Gagliardi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Richard Wood 
To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:41 PM
Subject: [mnbird] Time for a physics lesson?


8 IS the magnification which the ratio of the virtual image to the real image, 
and is related to the FOCAL LENGTH (the distance between two lenses) of the 
binoc. Thus the virtual image is 8 times the size of the real image. The bigger 
the entrance lens is, the more light that is let in and the brighter is the 
image. So, even though I'm not up on which part is called what, I can still 
out-physics and math the entire bird list. 


Richard


Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
Hastings, MN
rwoodphd AT yahoo.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Sharon Stiteler 
To: Richard Wood 
Cc: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:23:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars


Here is what the binocular equation means:


In 8X42, the first number is the magnification, so the binocular will bring the 
image eight times closer. It has nothing to do with light gathering ability. 
The second number is the diameter in millimeters of the objective lens (the 
large lens), this gives you an idea of how much light the binocular will bring 
in--the higher the number, the more light gathering capability--the objective 
lens has nothing to do with field of view. 



Many birders like the 8 powers because it brings the image close, but still 
allows a good field of view. Some people like the 10 powers, but when you have 
more magnification, it can pick up more movement, like hand shaking. I drink 
way too much coffee to use a 10 power. 



When you see binoculars that are the same equation, but are a higher price, you 
are paying for quality of glass, the way the glass is cut, and the types of 
coatings used on the lenses and prisms--all can affect the light gathering 
ability. So, an 8x42 Swarovski EL is going to give you a much brighter and true 
image in low light conditions (cloudy days, dawn and dusk) than an 8x42 Vortex 
Sidewinder. 



The important thing is try out many different optic brands and equations. There 
is no such thing as one brand or equation that suits every birder out there. 
What works for me, doesn't always work for everyone else and vice versa. 
Personally, I'm currently using Swarovski 8x32 ELs which I highly recommend, 
but I do know some people who find them too small for their hands. 






Sharon Stiteler
www.birdchick.com
Minneapolis, MN








On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Richard Wood wrote:


  More light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps?

  Richard


  Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
  Hastings, MN
  rwoodphd AT yahoo.com



  ----- Original Message ----
  From: bkr 
  To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
  Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars



  On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:

  > From: scott henkemeyer 
  > Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
  >
  > I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
  > suggestions.i know i want 8x42


    These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on closeout
  at Eagle Optics:

  http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571

    They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best specs.
  I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.

 Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price, made in 
Japan 

  Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics

    These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade Montana.
  All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100 more for
  the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:

  http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html

 (BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb 
Discoverer.) 


  Brooks

  _______________________________________________
  mnbird mailing list
  mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
  http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird





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Wood has his high school optics wrong again. This was a discussion of two 
binocs each having 42mm entrance, but differing by 

magnification. The light into these is identical... the same watts per sq meter 
input. The exit pupil 42/8 or 42/7 determines how 

bright the image is perceived by the eye, and 43/7 is bigger and brighter... 
ie, more watts per sq meter at the eye. It's basic 

physics and optics.

Wood must have meant he can take a physic better than others on the list. Seems 
to need it :-) 



Chuck
   (much more professional credential for optics)

  -----Original Message-----
 From: mnbird-bounces AT lists.mnbird.net 
[mailto:mnbird-bounces AT lists.mnbird.net]On Behalf Of Richard Wood 

  Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:41 PM
  To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
  Subject: [mnbird] Time for a physics lesson?


 8 IS the magnification which the ratio of the virtual image to the real image, 
and is related to the FOCAL LENGTH (the distance 

between two lenses) of the binoc. Thus the virtual image is 8 times the size of 
the real image. The bigger the entrance lens is, 

the more light that is let in and the brighter is the image. So, even though 
I'm not up on which part is called what, I can still 

out-physics and math the entire bird list.

  Richard


  Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
  Hastings, MN
  rwoodphd AT yahoo.com



  ----- Original Message ----
  From: Sharon Stiteler 
  To: Richard Wood 
  Cc: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
  Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:23:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars


  Here is what the binocular equation means:


 In 8X42, the first number is the magnification, so the binocular will bring 
the image eight times closer. It has nothing to do 

with light gathering ability. The second number is the diameter in millimeters 
of the objective lens (the large lens), this gives 

you an idea of how much light the binocular will bring in--the higher the 
number, the more light gathering capability--the objective 

lens has nothing to do with field of view.


 Many birders like the 8 powers because it brings the image close, but still 
allows a good field of view. Some people like the 10 

powers, but when you have more magnification, it can pick up more movement, 
like hand shaking. I drink way too much coffee to use a 

10 power.


 When you see binoculars that are the same equation, but are a higher price, 
you are paying for quality of glass, the way the glass 

is cut, and the types of coatings used on the lenses and prisms--all can affect 
the light gathering ability. So, an 8x42 Swarovski 

EL is going to give you a much brighter and true image in low light conditions 
(cloudy days, dawn and dusk) than an 8x42 Vortex 

Sidewinder.


 The important thing is try out many different optic brands and equations. 
There is no such thing as one brand or equation that 

suits every birder out there. What works for me, doesn't always work for 
everyone else and vice versa. Personally, I'm currently 

using Swarovski 8x32 ELs which I highly recommend, but I do know some people 
who find them too small for their hands. 






  Sharon Stiteler
  www.birdchick.com
  Minneapolis, MN








  On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Richard Wood wrote:


    More light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps?

    Richard


    Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
    Hastings, MN
    rwoodphd AT yahoo.com



    ----- Original Message ----
    From: bkr 
    To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
    Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21:58 PM
    Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars



    On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:

    > From: scott henkemeyer 
    > Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
    > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    >
    > I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
    > suggestions.i know i want 8x42


 These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on closeout 

    at Eagle Optics:

    http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571

      They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best specs.
    I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.

 Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price, made in 
Japan 

    Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics

      These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade Montana.
    All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100 more for
    the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:

    http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html

 (BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb 
Discoverer.) 


    Brooks

    _______________________________________________
    mnbird mailing list
    mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
    http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird





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MnBirders:

Decent glasses can be found for even $100. I was impressed enough by their 
image quality to get a pair of Brunton 10x32s at Sportsmans' Warehouse. I 
needed a pair of binoculars that I could leave in my truck during work and use 
for birding in the evening. These also come in handy when dealing with the 
public at events by letting people know that effective birding can be done 
using relatively inexpensive binoculars. Toting upper level glasses can give 
member of the public that to be a good birder requires binoculars that cost 
$1,200 and more. Most of my 600+ Lower 48 and 505 Texas species were seen with 
glasses that would cost no more than $300 now. The higher end glasses have 
better image quality, making IDs that much easier, last longer, can take more 
abuse, etc, but are hardly necessary. 


Onward!

Steve

Stevan Hawkins
San Antonio TX
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: RICHARD JILL WOOD 
  To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:11 AM
  Subject: RE: [mnbird] binoculars


 It's going to be difficult to get something for $300 or under that is really 
good, IMO. That being said, I would try Eagle Optics at www.eagleoptics.com. 
Try to avoid the lesser known brands, however. 


 They do have a pair of Nikon Monarchs 8 by 42 for $290, which I suppose are 
decent. I would prefer a pair of Zeiss', myself. 


 On a related question, does anybody know who makes Bausch and Lomb's 
binoculars now? I have a pair of theirs and I love them, but I know they no 
longer make binocs. 


  Richard



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:24:
    From: deadcandaneus2000 AT yahoo.com
    To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
    Subject: [mnbird] binoculars

 I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any 
suggestions.i know i want 8x42 


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All:

I have lost track of the number of pairs of binoculars that I have owned 
since 1970.  The few times I have tried 7x glasses they always came across 
as having inadequate magnification for most birding applications.  They 
might be okay for close-in situations.  The jump from 7x to 8x is a 
significant enough jump to make birds further away just that much easier to 
ID.  In my case depending on the situation I use either a 10x40 or a 10x32 
glass.

Onward!

Steve

Stevan Hawkins
San Antonio TX

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bkr" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars


>
>
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:
>
>> From: scott henkemeyer 
>> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
>> suggestions.i know i want 8x42
>
>
>  These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on 
> closeout
> at Eagle Optics:
>
> http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571
>
>  They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best specs.
> I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.
>
> Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price, made in 
> Japan
> Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics
>
>  These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade Montana.
> All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100 more for
> the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:
>
> http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html
>
> (BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb 
> Discoverer.)
>
> Brooks
>
> _______________________________________________
> mnbird mailing list
> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird 

_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

> So, all else being equal, the 500mm FL  f/5
> lens would transmit 4 times the amount of light to the focal plane as
> the 1000mm f/10 lens even though they have the same objective size
> (100mm).

Correction -

Should be 2 1/3 times the light not 4 times.

Art
-- 
Art 

_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

> 8 IS the magnification which the ratio of the virtual image to the real
> image, and is related to the FOCAL LENGTH (the distance between two
> lenses) of the binoc.  

Sort of...

Focal length does not require two lenses. Any single element lens has a
native focal length. Focal length is that point, the focal plane, where
the light cone created by the objective converges. Every time you use a
simple single element (lens) magnifying glass you are focusing the lens
at it's native focal length.

> the real image.  The bigger the entrance lens is, the more light that
> is let in and the brighter is the image.  

No.
The amount of light transmitted to the focal plane is a function
objective size AND it's focal length. This is called the focal ratio and
is the native focal length divided by the size of the objective.

Thus you could have two 100mm objectives one with a FL of 1000mm and one
with a FL of 500mm. In this case the 1000mm lens would be a f/10 lens
and 500mm lens would be an f/5 lens. Smaller f numbers denote a faster
(brighter) optical system. So, all else being equal, the 500mm FL  f/5
lens would transmit 4 times the amount of light to the focal plane as
the 1000mm f/10 lens even though they have the same objective size
(100mm).

Art

-- 
Art 

_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

8 IS the magnification which the ratio of the virtual image to the real
image, and is related to the FOCAL LENGTH (the distance between two
lenses) of the binoc.  Thus the virtual image is 8 times the size of
the real image.  The bigger the entrance lens is, the more light that
is let in and the brighter is the image.  So, even though I'm not up on
which part is called what, I can still out-physics and math the entire
bird list.

Richard
 
Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
Hastings, MN
rwoodphd AT yahoo.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Sharon Stiteler 
To: Richard Wood 
Cc: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:23:00 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars


Here is what the binocular equation means:


In 8X42, the first number is the magnification, so the binocular will bring the 
image eight times closer. It has nothing to do with light gathering ability. 
The second number is the diameter in millimeters of the objective lens (the 
large lens), this gives you an idea of how much light the binocular will bring 
in--the higher the number, the more light gathering capability--the objective 
lens has nothing to do with field of view. 



Many birders like the 8 powers because it brings the image close, but still 
allows a good field of view. Some people like the 10 powers, but when you have 
more magnification, it can pick up more movement, like hand shaking. I drink 
way too much coffee to use a 10 power. 



When you see binoculars that are the same equation, but are a higher price, you 
are paying for quality of glass, the way the glass is cut, and the types of 
coatings used on the lenses and prisms--all can affect the light gathering 
ability. So, an 8x42 Swarovski EL is going to give you a much brighter and true 
image in low light conditions (cloudy days, dawn and dusk) than an 8x42 Vortex 
Sidewinder. 



The important thing is try out many different optic brands and equations. There 
is no such thing as one brand or equation that suits every birder out there. 
What works for me, doesn't always work for everyone else and vice versa. 
Personally, I'm currently using Swarovski 8x32 ELs which I highly recommend, 
but I do know some people who find them too small for their hands. 




 
 Sharon Stiteler
www.birdchick.com
Minneapolis, MN





 

On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Richard Wood wrote:

More light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps?

Richard
 
Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
Hastings, MN
rwoodphd AT yahoo.com

----- Original Message ----
From: bkr 
To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars

 

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:

> From: scott henkemeyer 
> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
> suggestions.i know i want 8x42


  These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on closeout
at Eagle Optics:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571

  They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best specs.
I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.

Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price, made in Japan
Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics

  These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade Montana.
All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100 more for
the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html

(BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb 
Discoverer.) 


Brooks

_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird





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http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433_______________________________________________
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Sharon hit the nail right on the head with her post. In addition to what she 
wrote, a person in the market for binoculars should always remember to set the 
diopter adjustments for their eyes when comparing binoculars. I recently had a 
chance to compare Zeiss Victory 8x32 T* FL with Swarovski 8x32 ELs. I was able 
to use both binoculars for more than a week so I had a chance to test them side 
by side under many different lighting conditions. Optically, I could see no 
difference (both are exceptional), but the Swarovskis felt better in my hands. 


Bill Marchel 
BillMARCHEL.com
5929 Saint Mathias Road
Fort Ripley, MN  56449
Email:  Bill AT BillMARCHEL.com
Phone: 
Fax: 
Web Site:  www.BillMARCHEL.com
Web Site:  www.agpix.com/billmarchel
  



Here is what the binocular equation means:


In 8X42, the first number is the magnification, so the binocular will bring the 
image eight times closer. It has nothing to do with light gathering ability. 
The second number is the diameter in millimeters of the objective lens (the 
large lens), this gives you an idea of how much light the binocular will bring 
in--the higher the number, the more light gathering capability--the objective 
lens has nothing to do with field of view. 



Many birders like the 8 powers because it brings the image close, but still 
allows a good field of view. Some people like the 10 powers, but when you have 
more magnification, it can pick up more movement, like hand shaking. I drink 
way too much coffee to use a 10 power. 



When you see binoculars that are the same equation, but are a higher price, you 
are paying for quality of glass, the way the glass is cut, and the types of 
coatings used on the lenses and prisms--all can affect the light gathering 
ability. So, an 8x42 Swarovski EL is going to give you a much brighter and true 
image in low light conditions (cloudy days, dawn and dusk) than an 8x42 Vortex 
Sidewinder. 



The important thing is try out many different optic brands and equations. There 
is no such thing as one brand or equation that suits every birder out there. 
What works for me, doesn't always work for everyone else and vice versa. 
Personally, I'm currently using Swarovski 8x32 ELs which I highly recommend, 
but I do know some people who find them too small for their hands. 






Sharon Stiteler
www.birdchick.com_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

  -----Original Message-----
 From: mnbird-bounces AT lists.mnbird.net 
[mailto:mnbird-bounces AT lists.mnbird.net]On Behalf Of Richard Wood 

  Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 4:01 PM
  To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
  Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars


  More light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps? 

Not possible if normal optical theory applies. 

 Exit pupil determines this:   42/7 > 42/8 

Chuck_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

Here is what the binocular equation means:

In 8X42, the first number is the magnification, so the binocular will  
bring the image eight times closer.  It has nothing to do with light  
gathering ability.  The second number is the diameter in millimeters  
of the objective lens (the large lens), this gives you an idea of how  
much light the binocular will bring in--the higher the number, the  
more light gathering capability--the objective lens has nothing to do  
with field of view.

Many birders like the 8 powers because it brings the image close, but  
still allows a good field of view.  Some people like the 10 powers,  
but when you have more magnification, it can pick up more movement,  
like hand shaking.  I drink way too much coffee to use a 10 power.

When you see binoculars that are the same equation, but are a higher  
price, you are paying for quality of glass, the way the glass is cut,  
and the types of coatings used on the lenses and prisms--all can  
affect the light gathering ability.  So, an 8x42 Swarovski EL is  
going to give you a much brighter and true image in low light  
conditions (cloudy days, dawn and dusk) than an 8x42  Vortex Sidewinder.

The important thing is try out many different optic brands and  
equations.  There is no such thing as one brand or equation that  
suits every birder out there.  What works for me, doesn't always work  
for everyone else and vice versa.  Personally, I'm currently using  
Swarovski 8x32 ELs which I highly recommend, but I do know some  
people who find them too small for their hands.



Sharon Stiteler
www.birdchick.com
Minneapolis, MN




On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:00 PM, Richard Wood wrote:

> More light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps?
>
> Richard
>
> Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
> Hastings, MN
> rwoodphd AT yahoo.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: bkr 
> To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars
>
>
>
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:
>
> > From: scott henkemeyer 
> > Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
> > suggestions.i know i want 8x42
>
>
>   These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on  
> closeout
> at Eagle Optics:
>
> http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571
>
>   They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best  
> specs.
> I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.
>
> Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price,  
> made in Japan
> Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics
>
>   These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade  
> Montana.
> All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100  
> more for
> the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:
>
> http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html
>
> (BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb  
> Discoverer.)
>
> Brooks
>
> _______________________________________________
> mnbird mailing list
> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird
>
>
> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> _______________________________________________
> mnbird mailing list
> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird
_______________________________________________
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Chisago County, CR 76, 1.5 mi North of CR 21  - today.
Bald eagle eating 5+ day old possum roadkill, occasionally pestered by crows. 
He sat there and let me film him for 30 minutes, (24 hours after signing up for 
this list!) Right after he left, a red-tailed hawk ate his left overs. Video 
(shortened) at www.smellypuma.com. 


Art McGathey
Phenology, Shafer Township
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        Today we had 4 Red breasted Nuthatches and a female and 2 male
Purple Finches at the feeders at the Ponderosa Golf Club in Clay County,
just East of Buffalo State Park.
        
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More light is let in with the 8 than with the 7, perhaps?

Richard
 
Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
Hastings, MN
rwoodphd AT yahoo.com

----- Original Message ----
From: bkr 
To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:21:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbird] binoculars




On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:

> From: scott henkemeyer 
> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
> suggestions.i know i want 8x42


  These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on
 closeout
at Eagle Optics:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571

  They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best
 specs.
I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.

Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price, made
 in Japan
Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics

  These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade
 Montana.
All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100 more
 for
the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html

(BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb
 Discoverer.)

Brooks

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On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 mnbird-request AT lists.mnbird.net wrote:

> From: scott henkemeyer 
> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
> suggestions.i know i want 8x42


  These Fujinon CD roof prisms are a really good deal(!) at $190 on closeout
at Eagle Optics:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2571

  They make 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 sizes, but the 7x42 have the best specs.
I can't think of ANY reason to favor the 8x42 over the 7x42.

Pros: Large FOV, large eye relief, solid and rugged, great price, made in Japan
Cons: A bit heavy, eye cups don't lock, not quite $1200 class optics

  These Fujinon CD are also sold as Bushnell Discoverer and Meade Montana.
All of these models can be found at closeout prices.  I paid $100 more for
the 7x42 Bushnell Discoverer version back in August:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bausch-and-lomb-7x42-discoverer.html

(BTW, these are also phase coated versions of the old Bausch & Lomb 
Discoverer.) 


Brooks

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 Got to disagree with that call. Lisa and I both got the Monarch 10x42's early 
this Spring and are really delighted with them. Great clarity, close focus 
(they claim ten but it's more like 7 feet), lightweight etc. etc. I did test 
other brands and some were certainly superior but not until they cost upwards 
of $1200. 


                                                    Jon Gorder
                                                    St. Paul
.  

They do have a pair of Nikon Monarchs 8 by 42 for $290, which I suppose are 
decent. I would prefer a pair of Zeiss', myself. 





       
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scott henkemeyer wrote:
> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any 
> suggestions.i know i want 8x42
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers 
> 
from 

> someone who knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>   
I sent this to Scott  but, others might also be interested Eagle Optics 
is selling Fujinon CD 10x42 for 229.99

-- 
Rick 
Fargo, ND
N 46�53.251"
W 096�48.279"

Remember the USS Liberty

http://www.ussliberty.org/
http://picasaweb.google.com/PaWalleye/NebraskaBirds
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I will add my voice as a recommendation for the Nikon Monarch.  I was
operating on a similar budget to you when I bought new binoculars earlier
this year.  I've been happy with the quality and ruggedness of them.

Admittedly, I was upgrading from the Bushnells that I got from Target when I
was in college.

Abi Kritzer
Minneapolis, MN


On 10/16/07, Sharon Stiteler  wrote:
>
>  I respectfully disagree with Mr. Wood.  You can get surprisingly good
> optics for under $300.  The technologies for producing optics has changed
> dramatically in the last five years.  For under $300, I recommend checking
> out:
>
>
> Stokes Talon
> Vortex Sidewinder
> Nikon Monarchs
> Audubon Equinox HP (make sure it has the HP, the regular Audubon Equinox
> is not as good)
> Eagle Optics Ranger SRT
>
>
> These are all great optics for the price and have lifetime no fault
> warranties.  I no longer work for Eagle Optics and none of brands companies
> are sponsors of my blog, so i have no vested interest in recommending them.
> They are just really good optics for under $300.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Sharon Stiteler
> www.birdchick.com
> www.disapprovingrabbits.com
> Minneapolis, MN
>
>
>  On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:11 AM, RICHARD JILL WOOD wrote:
>
>  It's going to be difficult to get something for $300 or under that is
> really good, IMO.  That being said, I would try Eagle Optics at
> www.eagleoptics.com.  Try to avoid the lesser known brands, however.
>
> They do have a pair of Nikon Monarchs 8 by 42 for $290, which I suppose
> are decent.  I would prefer a pair of Zeiss', myself.
>
> On a related question, does anybody know who makes Bausch and Lomb's
> binoculars now?  I have a pair of theirs and I love them, but I know they no
> longer make binocs.
>
> Richard
>
>  ------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:24:
> From: deadcandaneus2000 AT yahoo.com
> To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
>
> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
> suggestions.i know i want 8x42
> ------------------------------
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers
> 
from 

> someone who knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
> Try 
now! 

> _______________________________________________
> mnbird mailing list
> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
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>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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I respectfully disagree with Mr. Wood.  You can get surprisingly good  
optics for under $300.  The technologies for producing optics has  
changed dramatically in the last five years.  For under $300, I  
recommend checking out:

Stokes Talon
Vortex Sidewinder
Nikon Monarchs
Audubon Equinox HP (make sure it has the HP, the regular Audubon  
Equinox is not as good)
Eagle Optics Ranger SRT

These are all great optics for the price and have lifetime no fault  
warranties.  I no longer work for Eagle Optics and none of brands  
companies are sponsors of my blog, so i have no vested interest in  
recommending them.  They are just really good optics for under $300.



Sharon Stiteler
www.birdchick.com
www.disapprovingrabbits.com
Minneapolis, MN


On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:11 AM, RICHARD JILL WOOD wrote:

> It's going to be difficult to get something for $300 or under that  
> is really good, IMO.  That being said, I would try Eagle Optics at  
> www.eagleoptics.com.  Try to avoid the lesser known brands, however.
>
> They do have a pair of Nikon Monarchs 8 by 42 for $290, which I  
> suppose are decent.  I would prefer a pair of Zeiss', myself.
>
> On a related question, does anybody know who makes Bausch and  
> Lomb's binoculars now?  I have a pair of theirs and I love them,  
> but I know they no longer make binocs.
>
> Richard
>
> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:24:
> From: deadcandaneus2000 AT yahoo.com
> To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
>
> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any  
> suggestions.i know i want 8x42
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from  
> someone who knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
> Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live  
> OneCare! Try now!
> _______________________________________________
> mnbird mailing list
> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird
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On this rainy, dreary day in central MN (may the sun be shining and birds 
flocking where you're at!), while studying for Sunday's sermon & classes, 
started thinking about "nemesis" birds - both those found after years of 
chasing, and those that remain.

By definition a nemesis bird must be achievable, in other words, it's not 
awaiting the arrival of a trogon or seedeater in Minnesota.

For years my nemesis was the Harlequin Duck - reported with some regularity 
during my years of birding in Wisconsin - but never seen despite numerous 
winter trips to Lake Michigan.  At times the bird was seen only minutes 
earlier; no matter, it was gone upon my arrival.

I accepted a call to pastor a church in Princeton, MN, and relocated 
December 2003.  One of the first reports that captured my attention that 
month was of a Harlequin Duck in Two Harbors, supposedly frequenting a bay. 
Two Harbors was just a Yahoo search and 2.5 hour drive away, so off I went 
on a Saturday morning.  It took me a bit of time for this non-native to find 
the lighthouse bay; as I pulled up, a single duck was floating just off 
shore.

Identified without bins or scope, seemingly without effort, the nemesis was 
no more - after eleven years.

Of course, in true nemesis fashion, have seen others since without 
searching.

The next nemesis?  Long-tailed Duck - numerous sightings & flocks in 
Wisconsin, still missing from my Minnesota list.

How about you?  Found, or still searching, what's your story?

Al Schirmacher
Princeton, MN
Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties 

Bausch & Lomb is now Bushnell. I would take my trusty bushnells over
almost anything. they tend to be a little cheaper too. I would advise
getting a decent pair though. Legends or something along that line.
the ones you can buy at Wal-mart just don't cut it.

Happy Birding! --Chris W, Richland County WI

On 10/16/07, RICHARD JILL WOOD  wrote:
>
>  It's going to be difficult to get something for $300 or under that is
> really good, IMO.  That being said, I would try Eagle Optics at
> www.eagleoptics.com.  Try to avoid the lesser known brands, however.
>
> They do have a pair of Nikon Monarchs 8 by 42 for $290, which I suppose are
> decent.  I would prefer a pair of Zeiss', myself.
>
> On a related question, does anybody know who makes Bausch and Lomb's
> binoculars now?  I have a pair of theirs and I love them, but I know they no
> longer make binocs.
>
> Richard
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:24:
> From: deadcandaneus2000 AT yahoo.com
> To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> Subject: [mnbird] binoculars
>
> I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any
> suggestions.i know i want 8x42
> ________________________________
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
> knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> ________________________________
> Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
> Try now!
> _______________________________________________
> mnbird mailing list
> mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
> http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird
>
>
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On this rainy, dreary day in central MN (may the sun be shining and birds 
flocking where you're at!), while studying for Sunday's sermon & classes, 
started thinking about "nemesis" birds - both those found after years of 
chasing, and those that remain.

By definition a nemesis bird must be achievable, in other words, it's not 
awaiting the arrival of a trogon or seedeater in Minnesota.

For years my nemesis was the Harlequin Duck - reported with some regularity 
during my years of birding in Wisconsin - but never seen despite numerous 
winter trips to Lake Michigan.  At times the bird was seen only minutes 
earlier; no matter, it was gone upon my arrival.

I accepted a call to pastor a church in Princeton, MN, and relocated 
December 2003.  One of the first reports that captured my attention that 
month was of a Harlequin Duck in Two Harbors, supposedly frequenting a bay. 
Two Harbors was just a Yahoo search and 2.5 hour drive away, so off I went 
on a Saturday morning.  It took me a bit of time for this non-native to find 
the lighthouse bay; as I pulled up, a single duck was floating just off 
shore.

Identified without bins or scope, seemingly without effort, the nemesis was 
no more - after eleven years.

Of course, in true nemesis fashion, have seen others since without 
searching.

The next nemesis?  Long-tailed Duck - numerous sightings & flocks in 
Wisconsin, still missing from my Minnesota list.

How about you?  Found, or still searching, what's your story?

Al Schirmacher
Princeton, MN
Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties 

_______________________________________________
mnbird mailing list
mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
http://lists.mnbird.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mnbird

It's going to be difficult to get something for $300 or under that is really 
good, IMO. That being said, I would try Eagle Optics at www.eagleoptics.com. 
Try to avoid the lesser known brands, however. 


They do have a pair of Nikon Monarchs 8 by 42 for $290, which I suppose are 
decent. I would prefer a pair of Zeiss', myself. 


On a related question, does anybody know who makes Bausch and Lomb's binoculars 
now? I have a pair of theirs and I love them, but I know they no longer make 
binocs. 


Richard

Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:24:
From: deadcandaneus2000 AT yahoo.com
To: mnbird AT lists.mnbird.net
Subject: [mnbird] binoculars

I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any 
suggestions.i know i want 8x42 

 Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who 
knows. 

Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 

_________________________________________________________________
Boo!�Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
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John Hockema has been faithfully keeping my idiotic goal alive, of trying to 
add at least one bird to each of my 87 Minnesota County lists. Nervous about 
adding to my already semirespectable totals in Lake and Cook, we decided to 
head north for a 3-day extravaganza along the shore. My personal county ticks 
(House Finch in Cook and Redhead in Lake) are much less interesting than all 
the other birds we saw: 


LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL - On MN breakwall at Superior Entry (Fri) - Adult
WHITE-WINGED SCOTER - At least 3 at rowing club at MN Point (Sat)/3 at Taconite 
Harbor (Sun)/1 in Grand Marais Harbor (Sun) 

BLACK SCOTER - One flyby from bathhouse at MN Point (Sat)
SURF SCOTER - 4 at Taconite Harbor (Sun)
BLACK-BACKED WOODPECKER - At least 5 at various spots along the shore
3-TOED WOODPECKER - Silver Bay Marina Parking Lot (Mon) - adult male seen well 
in island of 4 spruce trees - then flew towards Hwy to 61 to who knows where - 
I believe this is several days earlier than last years 'irruption.' Is this the 
beginning of another influx? 

NORTHERN GOSHAWK - Beaver Bay Sewage Ponds (Mon) - imm. seeking a Green-winged 
Teal for lunch 

BOREAL CHICKADEE - One bird calling at Sugarloaf Cove (Sun) - On nature trail 
between markers 7 & 8 

BOHEMIAN WAXWING - One flock of 50 (?) in Grand Marais (Sun) - small numbers of 
Cedar Waxwing all along the shore, but only the one flock of Bohemians 

GRAY JAY - Various spots along the shore
AM GOLDEN PLOVER - Probably at 5 or spots along the shore - usually 1 to 3 
birds 

BLACK-BELLIED PLOVER - Two Harbors Golf Course (Mon) - 3 birds

Miscellania: 5 Warbs (Cape May, TN, Nashville, Palm, Yellow-rumped), 
Sanderling, Harris's Sparrow, 100 White-crowneds per 1 White-throated Sparrow, 
Cackling Geese, Numerous Horned Grebes 


3-day total in St Louis, Lake, and Cook Counties: 88


Dedrick Benz
Winona, MN

_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!� Play Star Shuffle:� the word scramble 
challenge with star power. 

http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct

John Hockema has been faithfully keeping my idiotic goal alive, of trying to 
add at least one bird to each of my 87 Minnesota County lists. Nervous about 
adding to my already semirespectable totals in Lake and Cook, we decided to 
head north for a 3-day extravaganza along the shore. My personal county ticks 
(House Finch in Cook and Redhead in Lake) are much less interesting than all 
the other birds we saw: 


LESSER BLACK-BACKED GULL - On MN breakwall at Superior Entry (Fri) - Adult
WHITE-WINGED SCOTER - At least 3 at rowing club at MN Point (Sat)/3 at Taconite 
Harbor (Sun)/1 in Grand Marais Harbor (Sun) 

BLACK SCOTER - One flyby from bathhouse at MN Point (Sat)
SURF SCOTER - 4 at Taconite Harbor (Sun)
BLACK-BACKED WOODPECKER - At least 5 at various spots along the shore
3-TOED WOODPECKER - Silver Bay Marina Parking Lot (Mon) - adult male seen well 
in island of 4 spruce trees - then flew towards Hwy to 61 to who knows where - 
I believe this is several days earlier than last years 'irruption.' Is this the 
beginning of another influx? 

NORTHERN GOSHAWK - Beaver Bay Sewage Ponds (Mon) - imm. seeking a Green-winged 
Teal for lunch 

BOREAL CHICKADEE - One bird calling at Sugarloaf Cove (Sun) - On nature trail 
between markers 7 & 8 

BOHEMIAN WAXWING - One flock of 50 (?) in Grand Marais (Sun) - small numbers of 
Cedar Waxwing all along the shore, but only the one flock of Bohemians 

GRAY JAY - Various spots along the shore
AM GOLDEN PLOVER - Probably at 5 or spots along the shore - usually 1 to 3 
birds 

BLACK-BELLIED PLOVER - Two Harbors Golf Course (Mon) - 3 birds

Miscellania: 5 Warbs (Cape May, TN, Nashville, Palm, Yellow-rumped), 
Sanderling, Harris's Sparrow, 100 White-crowneds per 1 White-throated Sparrow, 
Cackling Geese, Numerous Horned Grebes 


3-day total in St Louis, Lake, and Cook Counties: 88


Dedrick Benz
Winona, MN

_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!� Play Star Shuffle:� the word scramble 
challenge with star power. 


http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct_______________________________________________ 

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I'm looking for a new pair of bino's.most i can afford is $300 any 
suggestions.i know i want 8x42 

       
---------------------------------
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Red-breasted Nuthatch,  Junco,  Golden-crowned Kinglet, Hermit Thrush, Brown
Creeper, and an albino red squirrel.
Glen Ave, Minnetonka MN, Hennepin county.n albino red squirrel.
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Often in crossword puzzles a clue will point to "erne".  I had never  heard 
of it.  Here's an explanation along with some other minutia.  
 
Tony Smith, Saint Louis Park
 
 
erne   \ERN\   noun
: eagle; especially : a long-winged sea eagle (_Haliaetus  albicilla_) with a 
short white wedge-shaped tail

Example  sentence:
“The two men in question were in  the vicinity of an erne's nest on Mull in 
March last year….” (Sinclair Dunnett,  _The Scotsman_, February 5, 2000)


Did you know?
What do ernes, crows, finches, wrens, owls, and sparrows  have in common 
(besides feathers and beaks and other avian traits)? Wing your way through one 

thousand years of ornithological and etymological history, and you will alight 

on an Old English lexicon wherein these birds had basically the  same names as 
they have now. Their names were spelled a little differently back  then: 
"earn," "crawe," "finc," "wrenna," "ule," and "spearwa." All those avian names 

are also birds of a feather in that their ancestors are akin to Old High German 

words: "arn," "krawa," "fincho," "rentilo," "uwila," and "sparo,"  
respectively.




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Good morning.  Saw a RB Nuthatch at my feeder yesterday around 5 pm as I 
was returning from work, first seen in this area this year for me.  No 
hummer sightings since last Mon., but I am still keeping a feeder hung 
for now.  Robins are flocking in the neighborhood, lots of WT Sparrows, 
nuthatch and woodpecker activity.  Squirrels are back to being a problem 
at the feeders since the walnuts have been cleaned up.  Cindy in N. Mankato
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Hello Birders,
I was out Saturday morning looking for red-headed woodpeckers.  I found 2 of
them on Durant St. near Fish Lake in the Cedar Creek Bog.  This location was
posted by Steve and Cindy Broste on Sept. 9th.  Thanks Steve and Cindy!

I also saw A Pileated and red-bellied woodpeckers within a few minutes of
seeing the RH.

Also present:

Lots of Blue Jays harassing a Juvenile Sharp-shinned Hawk and a Bald Eagle

-- 
Sincerely,

Jim Ryan on St. Paul's Westside
 business cell

"A man who dares to waste an hour of time has not discovered the value of
life." - Charles Darwin