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Updated on Wednesday, August 20 at 01:55 PM EST
The most recently received Mail is at the top.


Painted Bunting

20 Aug Interesting juv. cowbird [Ian McLaren ]
19 Aug Re: Dowitcher ID [Jason Hoeksema ]
18 Aug Re: Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color []
17 Aug Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color ["Glenn d'Entremont" ]
16 Aug Dowitcher ID [Jed Hertz ]
16 Aug Paul R Wood/UK/TLS/PwC is out of the office. [Paul Wood ]
15 Aug Got it! [Chris Hill ]
15 Aug Re: AOU Checklist supplement [John Sterling ]
15 Aug Steve Howell contact [Chris Hill ]
12 Aug Status of parrots in S TX? [Noah Arthur ]
7 Aug Re: UV Bird Photography ["Mike O'Keeffe" ]
1 Aug Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler [Reid Martin ]
31 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler [Phil Davis ]
31 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler ["Lethaby, Nick" ]
30 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler [Reid Martin ]
30 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement [Peter Pyle ]
30 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement [Reid Martin ]
30 Jul AOU Checklist supplement [Ian Paulsen ]
30 Jul Flicker [Andy Dettling ]
29 Jul Re: Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern? [Tony Leukering ]
29 Jul Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern? [David Wheeler ]
29 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid [julian hough ]
28 Jul Florida junco followup [Bill Pranty ]
28 Jul Asian Raptor ID articles [Robert DeCandido PhD ]
28 Jul Re: Allen's vs Rufous Hummingbird question [Steve Hampton ]
28 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid [Jerry Jourdan ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Jocelyn Hudon ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Peter Pyle ]
28 Jul Re: UV Bird Photography ["Mike O'Keeffe" ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Thomas Wetmore ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? ["Kevin J. McGowan" ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [David Sibley ]
28 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid []
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [David Wheeler ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Richard Klim ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Jocelyn Hudon ]
28 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid [julian hough ]
28 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid ["Kevin J. McGowan" ]
27 Jul Allen's vs Rufous Hummingbird question [Steve Hampton ]
27 Jul Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Jim Tarolli ]
27 Jul Strange (?) calidrid [Julian Hough ]
25 Jul Re: Juvenile Ring-billed with a few gray wing coverts [Amar Ayyash ]
25 Jul Re: Juvenile Ring-billed with a few gray wing coverts [Chris Corben ]
25 Jul Re: Juvenile Ring-billed with a few gray wing coverts [Amar Ayyash ]
25 Jul Juvenile Ring-billed with a few gray wing coverts [Amar Ayyash ]
21 Jul Birds and UV Light ["Mike O'Keeffe" ]
12 Jul Presumed Grant’s Storm-Petrel onshore + COTExROST hybrid? [Mark B Bartosik ]
10 Jul NM Fall Sandpiper []
10 Jul Re: Fw: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper ["Lethaby, Nick" ]
10 Jul Re: Fw: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper [Suzanne Sullivan ]
9 Jul Fw: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper [julian hough ]
9 Jul Re: NM fall sandpiper [Kevin McLaughlin ]
8 Jul Re: NM fall sandpiper [Noah Arthur ]
8 Jul Re: NM fall sandpiper []
7 Jul Re: NM fall sandpiper [Jeff Gilligan ]
7 Jul Re: NM fall sandpiper []
5 Jul Re: NM fall sandpiper [Jeff Gilligan ]
5 Jul NM fall sandpiper [Noah Arthur ]
3 Jul RFI: Dark-eyed Junco identification [Bill Pranty ]
27 Jun Re: Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged? [Chuck Carlson ]
27 Jun Re: Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged? [Alvaro Jaramillo ]
27 Jun Re: Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged? [Peter Pyle ]
27 Jun Re: Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged? [Peter Pyle ]
27 Jun Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged? [Chuck Carlson ]
19 Jun Re: Birds and UV Light ["Kevin J. McGowan" ]
19 Jun Birds and UV Light ["Mike O'Keeffe" ]
13 Jun Re: Mystery sparrow (or Emberiza bunting?) at Pt. Reyes ["Lethaby, Nick" ]
12 Jun Mystery sparrow (or Emberiza bunting?) at Pt. Reyes [Noah Arthur ]
11 Jun Fwd: [BIRDWG01] Large White-headed Gull ID [Tony leukering ]
10 Jun odd gull [John Sterling ]
10 Jun Re: Large White-headed Gull ID [John Sterling ]
10 Jun Re: Large White-headed Gull ID [Kevin McLaughlin ]
10 Jun Re: Large White-headed Gull ID [Kirk Zufelt ]
10 Jun Large White-headed Gull ID [Kirk Zufelt ]
10 Jun Re: Large White-headed Gull ID [Tony Leukering ]
10 Jun Fw: Re: [BIRDWG01] Large White-headed Gull ID [Alan Wormington ]

Subject: Interesting juv. cowbird
From: Ian McLaren <I.A.McLaren AT DAL.CA>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:20:39 +0000
Those who have a Facebook account might check today's postings on Nova Scotia 
Bird Society (open access without posting privilege) and scroll down to see a 
juvenile cowbird photo'd by a novice (almost all on that site are thus). Anyone 
who wants an image otherwise can also contact me. 



Comments welcome.


Ian McLaren

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Dowitcher ID
From: Jason Hoeksema <hoeksema AT OLEMISS.EDU>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:26:28 -0500
Jed,
To me, both birds look like adults, and at least one appears to have
upperparts feathers with white tips and rufous internal markings, pointing
to Long-billed.  Also, in several photos, at least one of the individuals
looks quite hunch-backed / grapefruit-filled, pointing to Long-billed.
Without knowing which individuals are which in the different photos, I'm
hesitant to ID both birds, but at least one of them seems to be a
Long-billed.
Jason Hoeksema
Oxford, MS


On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Jed Hertz  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
> On 7/18/2014 I sighted and photographed two Dowitcher species in a wet
> agricultural field NE of Kankakee, IL and refound the same two birds on two
> successive visits.  I photographed the Dowitcher on both the 18th and 19th
> and since submitting the records to "ebird" have been discussing the merits
> of SB vs LB with the ebird reviewer hoping to get beyond the "dowitcher
> species" designation.  I would appreciate further input from the wider
> birding community to add to this discussion.
>
>
> Ten photos from 7/18 + 19/ 2014 can be viewed at my Flickr website:
>  (Photos can be further zoomed using the Control key and Mouse Scroll
> function on your computer):
>
>
> *https://www.flickr.com/photos/jhertz/14514635778/
> *
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
>
> Jed Hertz
>
> Kankakee, Kankakee Co, IL (60 mi South of Chicago)
>
>
>
> Photos/Videos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jhertz/
>
>
>
> Data: http://ebird.org/content/ebird
>
>
>
> Birdscaping: http://bringingnaturehome.net/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color
From: karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:47:08 +0000
Glenn and all: Very young Little Blue Herons can commonly have yellowish lores 
and a yellow hue to their bills into late August, but most show these traits 
for about a month after they fledge. I see this every year at Jamaica Bay 
Wildlife Refuge in NY, where they occur along side young Snowy Egrets, who have 
similar leg and bill shading. However, their bills are shorter and stockier 
than Snowy, and their necks are noticeably shorter and thicker as well. They 
also have very small black tips to their primaries, and this is easily seen if 
you look for it, and easily missed if you don't. Some young birds don't show as 
much yellow in the bill as others, and some have lores that just have a bit of 
yellow color. If you get them next to a Snowy, the physical differences are 
quite different, with Snowy's dagger-like bill unlike the thicker bill with 
slightly decurved upper mandible of Little Blue. Kevin Karlson 



----- Original Message -----

From: "Glenn d'Entremont"  
To: "Frontiers, ID"  
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:32:58 PM 
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color 

Today in Gloucester MA I saw a juvenile bird which structurally looked like a 
Little Blue Heron. Present was another juvenile and an adult Little Blue. The 
birds were far apart so no direct comparison for size. My impression was the 
bird was smaller than the other white plumaged bird, but when the adult 
interacted they were similar in size. I was surprised to see the lores were 
yellow and the bill had a yellow hue. I had not seen this before in Little Blue 
so started thinking about the "h" word; these birds nest on an island just a 
few miles from this location with Snowy Egrets. I did a quick search and came 
up with this image which is very close to the bird I saw: 


http://www.pwconserve.org/wildlife/birds/heronlittleblue.htm 

My question is if the lores are yellow on any given bird does the bill follow 
suit with a yellow hue? The gray/slate lored birds show gray/slate colored 
bills, as the second bird today did, and I have seen light pink with lightness 
on the bill. 


Thanks. 

Glenn 

Glenn d'Entremont: gdentremont1 AT comcast.net Stoughton, MA 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color
From: "Glenn d'Entremont" <gdentremont1 AT COMCAST.NET>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 01:32:58 +0000
Today in Gloucester MA I saw a juvenile bird which structurally looked like a 
Little Blue Heron. Present was another juvenile and an adult Little Blue. The 
birds were far apart so no direct comparison for size. My impression was the 
bird was smaller than the other white plumaged bird, but when the adult 
interacted they were similar in size. I was surprised to see the lores were 
yellow and the bill had a yellow hue. I had not seen this before in Little Blue 
so started thinking about the "h" word; these birds nest on an island just a 
few miles from this location with Snowy Egrets. I did a quick search and came 
up with this image which is very close to the bird I saw: 


http://www.pwconserve.org/wildlife/birds/heronlittleblue.htm

My question is if the lores are yellow on any given bird does the bill follow 
suit with a yellow hue? The gray/slate lored birds show gray/slate colored 
bills, as the second bird today did, and I have seen light pink with lightness 
on the bill. 


Thanks.

Glenn

Glenn d'Entremont:  gdentremont1 AT comcast.net  Stoughton, MA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Dowitcher ID
From: Jed Hertz <jhh_60910 AT YAHOO.COM>
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:28:42 -0700
Hi all,


On 7/18/2014 I sighted and photographed two Dowitcher species in a wet 
agricultural field NE of Kankakee, IL and refound the same two birds on two 
successive visits. I photographed the Dowitcher on both the 18th and 19th and 
since submitting the records to "ebird" have been discussing the merits of SB 
vs LB with the ebird reviewer hoping to get beyond the "dowitcher species" 
designation. I would appreciate further input from the wider birding community 
to add to this discussion. 



Ten photos from 7/18 + 19/ 2014 can be viewed at my Flickr website: (Photos 
can be further zoomed using the Control key and Mouse Scroll function on your 
computer): 



https://www.flickr.com/photos/jhertz/14514635778/




Thank you in advance for your consideration.

Jed Hertz 

Kankakee, Kankakee Co, IL (60 mi South of Chicago) 



Photos/Videos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jhertz/ 



Data: http://ebird.org/content/ebird 



Birdscaping: http://bringingnaturehome.net/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Paul R Wood/UK/TLS/PwC is out of the office.
From: Paul Wood <paul.r.wood AT UK.PWC.COM>
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 06:50:16 +0100

I will be out of the office from 15/08/2014 until 18/08/2014.

I will respond to your message when I return.




Note: This is an automated response to your message BIRDWG01 Digest - 12
Aug 2014 to 15 Aug 2014 (#2014-111) sent on 16/08/2014 06:00:23. This is
the only notification you will receive while this person is away.

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Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Got it!
From: Chris Hill <chill AT COASTAL.EDU>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:56:40 -0400
Thanks to many quick respondents who gave me Steves email, and to Jeremiah 
Trimble of the MCZ, who is going to help directly with my question. 


Chris

************************************************************************
Christopher E. Hill
Biology Department
Coastal Carolina University
Conway, SC 29528-1954
843-349-2567
chill AT coastal.edu
http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement
From: John Sterling <jsterling AT WAVECABLE.COM>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 09:46:49 -0700
I heard the call note of the one in Oceano, San Luis Obispo County and pointed 
it out to Guy McCaskie who was standing next to me. It was diagnostic for 
Arctic Warbler.....at the time I had two summers of experience working with 
Phylloscopus in Siberia and northwestern Russia and knew the call notes of 
those species well. 



John Sterling
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

26 Palm Ave
Woodland, CA 95695
530 908-3836
jsterling AT wavecable.com
www.sterlingbirds.com

On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Peter Pyle  wrote:

> I also wonder how decidedly the California birds were identified as 
borealis... 

> 
> At 02:38 PM 7/30/2014, Reid Martin wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable by 
voice or DNA (is this correct?) 

>> Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio recordings 
and/or specimen material that has been genetically examined that back up the 
AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, 
Amchitka) during spring and autumn migration."? 

>> Regards,
>> Martin
>> 
>> ---
>> Martin Reid
>> San Antonio
>> www.martinreid.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:
>> 
>>> HI ALL:
>>> Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:
>>> 
>>> http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1
>>> 
>>> sincerely
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Ian Paulsen
>>> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>>> Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
>>> http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/
>>> 
>>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>> 
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Steve Howell contact
From: Chris Hill <chill AT COASTAL.EDU>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:30:50 -0400
Hi All,

I have a question for Steve Howell about a specimen in the MCZ that hes 
inspected and Im having trouble getting more information on. If someone can 
send me his email address privately I would appreciate it (and it might help us 
resolve an apparent mistake on the South Carolina bird list). 


Chris

Chair, SC Bird Records Committee
************************************************************************
Christopher E. Hill
Biology Department
Coastal Carolina University
Conway, SC 29528-1954
843-349-2567
chill AT coastal.edu
http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Status of parrots in S TX?
From: Noah Arthur <semirelicta AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 00:22:10 -0700
Hi everyone. I know this isn't exactly about bird ID, but it is
bird-related so hopefully not too OT...

Does anyone know what the current consesus is on the status of Green
Parakeet and Red-crowned Parrot in south TX? Most older books seem to say
that some may be wild vagrants, while more recent books generally say that
they're 100% escapes. To me it seems like it would be very hard to prove
either way...

Noah Arthur, Oakland, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: UV Bird Photography
From: "Mike O'Keeffe" <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 23:23:41 +0100
Hi,

I have put up some UV reflectance bird images on the blog.  Not very
inspiring I'm afraid.  Mostly I have delved more deeply in UV imaging
pitfalls and come up with some related theories and notes.  Ultimately I
think we need a proper UV imaging camera to properly get to grips with UV
and birds and I have some design specs and mockups included for good
measure.

http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/08/uv-imaging.html

Regards

Mike 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
From: Reid Martin <upupa AT AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 15:17:47 -0500
Dear Phil,
That's great; this information closes the gap nicely, and when attached to the 
Proposal forms a complete audit trail for the acceptance of this taxon onto the 
NACC List - thank you Terry and Phil. 


FYI I'd like to point out that in Kenyon's Birds of Amchitka Island (published 
in the Auk, 1961), two specimens of P. b. examinandus are mentioned (USNM 
465415 & USNM 465421) - but there is no description of the birds nor any detail 
of how they were identified as examinandus. Presumably Kenyon IDed them as such 
using the criteria established at that time (what were those, I wonder?). Given 
that the authors who recently split this taxon from xanthodryas warn that DNA 
and/or vocal evidence is needed to be sure of the ID between these taxa, I 
don't think we can say that the USNM specimens have been confirmed as 
examinanus - unless there are more data available that confirms DNA analysis 
for these two specimens? 


Regards,
Martin
---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com





On Jul 31, 2014, at Jul 31, 4:58 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> ID Frontiers:
> 
> The messages below are from Terry Chesser, Chair of the AOUs Committee on 
Classification and NomenclatureNorth and Middle America. 

> 
> Phil
> 
> 
>> From: "Chesser, Terry" 
>> To: 'Phil Davis' 
>> CC: "David Bridge (bridgedavid AT earthlink.net)" 
>> Subject: FW: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf  Warbler
>> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:07:21 +0000
>> 
>> Phil, 
>>  
>> Could you post the message below on this list-serve? Apparently Im not 
allowed. 

>>  
>> Thanks,
>> Terry
>>  
>> From: Chesser, Terry 
>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:03 PM
>> To: 'BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU'
>> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
>>  
>> Dear Martin, Mary, Nick, and others,
>>  
>> Thanks for your interest in the checklist and in the P. examinandus question 
in particular. After the proposal on splitting P. borealis was submitted and 
voted on by the committee, the identification of purported examinandus 
specimens in the Alaska Museum from the Aleutians was confirmed using genetic 
methods, and the committee voted to add examinandus to the checklist. As a 
result of the confusion regarding this issue, we will be adding the following 
statement as an addendum to the proposal, to clarify the rationale for the 
committees decision: 

>>  
>> Numerous Aleutian Island specimens at the Alaska Museum, previously thought 
to be examinandus on morphological grounds, have now been positively identified 
as examinandus using DNA (J. Withrow, pers. comm.). All specimens from which 
genetic samples have been analyzed (12+ specimens from the Aleutians) have been 
confirmed as examinandus. In addition, Kenyon 1961 (Auk 78, pp. 322-323) 
previously published two specimens of examinandus (before Vaurie lumped this 
race with xanthrodryas) that are in the bird collection at the USNM. P. 
examinandus has not yet been added to the Alaska list because they follow AOU 
taxonomy and it is only now being split. Ordinarily we would wait for the local 
committee to accept the records before we add the species, but in this case 
there are peer-reviewed published specimens at USNM, the Alaska Museum 
specimens have been confirmed as this species, and Dan Gibson has said that 
there will be no difficulty adding P. examinandus to the Alaska list, so the 
committee has voted to add this species to the AOU Check-list coincident with 
the splitting of this species from P. borealis. 

>>  
>> Best regards,
>> Terry Chesser
>>  
> ===================================================
> Phil Davis, Secretary
> MD/DC Records Committee
> 2549 Vale Court
> Davidsonville, Maryland  21035     USA
> 301-261-0184
> mailto:PDavis AT ix.netcom.com
> 
> MD/DCRC Web site:  http://www.MDBirds.org/mddcrc/rcindex.html
> ===================================================
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
From: Phil Davis <pdavis AT IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 17:58:09 -0400
ID Frontiers:

The messages below are from Terry Chesser, Chair 
of the AOUs Committee on Classification and 
NomenclatureNorth and Middle America.

Phil


>From: "Chesser, Terry" 
>To: 'Phil Davis' 
>CC: "David Bridge (bridgedavid AT earthlink.net)" 
>Subject: FW: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf  Warbler
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:07:21 +0000
>
>Phil,
>
>Could you post the message below on this 
>list-serve?  Apparently Im not allowed.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry
>
>From: Chesser, Terry
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:03 PM
>To: 'BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU'
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
>
>Dear Martin, Mary, Nick, and others,
>
>Thanks for your interest in the checklist and in 
>the P. examinandus question in 
>particular.  After the proposal on splitting P. 
>borealis was submitted and voted on by the 
>committee, the identification of purported 
>examinandus specimens in the Alaska Museum from 
>the Aleutians was confirmed using genetic 
>methods, and the committee voted to add 
>examinandus to the checklist.  As a result of 
>the confusion regarding this issue, we will be 
>adding the following statement as an addendum to 
>the proposal, to clarify the rationale for the committees decision:
>
>Numerous Aleutian Island specimens at the Alaska 
>Museum, previously thought to be examinandus on 
>morphological grounds, have now been positively 
>identified as examinandus using DNA (J. Withrow, 
>pers. comm.).  All specimens from which genetic 
>samples have been analyzed (12+ specimens from 
>the Aleutians) have been confirmed as 
>examinandus.  In addition, Kenyon 1961 (Auk 78, 
>pp. 322-323) previously published two specimens 
>of examinandus (before Vaurie lumped this race 
>with xanthrodryas) that are in the bird 
>collection at the USNM.  P. examinandus has not 
>yet been added to the Alaska list because they 
>follow AOU taxonomy and it is only now being 
>split.  Ordinarily we would wait for the local 
>committee to accept the records before we add 
>the species, but in this case there are 
>peer-reviewed published specimens at USNM, the 
>Alaska Museum specimens have been confirmed as 
>this species, and Dan Gibson has said that there 
>will be no difficulty adding P. examinandus to 
>the Alaska list, so the committee has voted to 
>add this species to the AOU Check-list 
>coincident with the splitting of this species from P. borealis.
>
>Best regards,
>Terry Chesser
>

===================================================
Phil Davis, Secretary
MD/DC Records Committee
2549 Vale Court
Davidsonville, Maryland  21035     USA
301-261-0184
mailto:PDavis AT ix.netcom.com

MD/DCRC Web site:  http://www.MDBirds.org/mddcrc/rcindex.html
===================================================

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:15:24 +0000
While I agree the acceptance of Kamchatka Leaf Warbler seems rather cavalier 
(especially given how reluctance the Alaska Records Committee is to accept even 
some photo-documented records), I think the assumption that the Shemya birds 
are Kamchatka Leaf Warblers is pretty safe. Most Borealis would be long gone 
from that latitude even in mid-September. In contrast Kamchatka is a common 
migrant through Hegura-jima (off Honshu) throughout October and even regular 
into November. Borealis is only known from there in Sept (Watabe-san told me 
this and he is pretty good) and its peak in Hong Kong is the second half of 
September. I believe Borealis is thought to be uncommon/rare in Japan even as a 
migrant (probably similar to Yellow-browed Warbler in status) so probably is 
not passing through Kamchatka in any numbers. 


From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Reid Martin 

Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:48 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler

Dear Mary,
Thanks for the link. If I read the proposal correctly (and my ADHD means that 
sometimes I miss things...) then there is no confirmed evidence that Kamchatka 
Leaf Warbler or Japanese Leaf Warbler have occurred in the AOU area - at best 
there is evidence that one or the other has occurred; maybe both but we don't 
know for sure. 


The proposal states that "According to ORNIS, there are at least three 
Aleutians specimens identified as subspecies xanthodryas at UAM. Given that the 
name xanthodryas has previously been applied to both E Asian taxa now split by 
other sources as examinandus and xanthodryas, it seems on geographical grounds 
much more likely to pertain to the species referred to by Alstrom et al (2011) 
as examinandus. The odds of the northerly breeding examinandus occurring in the 
Aleutians are naturally high, while xanthodryas (as restricted by Alstrom et 
al. 2011), which breeds in central and southern Japan, would be an unlikely 
vagrant to the Aleutians. The identity of these specimens needs to be rechecked 
in light of this restriction of xanthodryas." 


The proposal also says: "Arctic Warblers considered to be of the NE race 
examinandus have been recorded in rather large numbers on Shemya Island, with 
for example at least 10 recorded between 15 Sep to 18Oct (Tobish 2006)." 


NOTE my underlines to emphasize the terms used to quantify the ID of these 
records. 


There is nothing in these statements that establishes that examinandus is 
proven to have occurred in the AOU area. I am puzzled that the AOU seems 
willing to state categorically in its change to the Checklist that examinandus 
is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, Amchitka) during spring and autumn 
migration." This has not been proven based on the AOU Proposal, so perhaps 
there is some other evidence that confirms this? 


For me it rather feels like the AOU is saying "these Arctic Warblers have never 
been firmly IDed to taxon level when they were ssp. of borealis, and with this 
split we can't leave them unassigned, so we'll go with the most likely taxon." 


Why can't the checklist leave off examinandus as occurring in the AOU, and 
instead include the first paragraph quoted above? If the three specimens can 
provide proof of examinandus (or more material in the form of audio recordings 
or fresh DNA can provide this) then the species can be added next time, once 
there is proof. 


Note that Clements 6.8 says for the range of xanthodryas (as split from 
examinandus): "Incompletely known. Breeds Japan (Honshu, Shikoku, Kyushu); 
winters range uncertain". Here's a quote from the 2009-2010 Hong Kong Bird 
Report: "Since the period covered by this report, the Arctic Warbler complex 
has been split into three species. Two of these have now been accepted to occur 
in Hong Kong: Arctic Warbler P. borealis and Japanese Leaf Warbler P. 
xanthodryas. Kamchatka Leaf Warbler P. examinandus may also occur. Due to 
difficulties in field identification, all records of this species group are 
included under a single entry in this report." These statements show that the 
now-split xanthodryas is a migrant, and its range is incompletely known but at 
least reaches Hong Kong on migration. The vector from Hong Kong to Honshu, when 
extended north, goes through the Aleutians. 


As for relying on likelihood: here's a quote from the ABA 2003 Checklist 
Report: "Its occurrence in Alaska was unexpected, as Spotted Flycatcher is 
unrecorded anywhere in eastern Asia or the Indian Subcontinent." 


Regards,
Martin
---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com




On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 5:19 PM, Mary Gustafson wrote:


http://www.aou.org/committees/nacc/proposals/2014-A.pdf
p. 33 for the split. No, there's not much information there on the split, but 
there are specimens that can be followed up on. 


Mary Gustafson
Mission, Texas


-----Original Message-----
From: Reid Martin >
To: BIRDWG01 >
Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 4:41 pm
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement
Dear All,
My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable by voice 
or DNA (is this correct?) 

Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio recordings 
and/or specimen material that has been genetically examined that back up the 
AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, 
Amchitka) during spring and autumn migration."? 

Regards,
Martin

---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com




On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:


HI ALL:
Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:

http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1

sincerely
--

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
From: Reid Martin <upupa AT AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 20:48:16 -0500
Dear Mary,
Thanks for the link. If I read the proposal correctly (and my ADHD means that 
sometimes I miss things...) then there is no confirmed evidence that Kamchatka 
Leaf Warbler or Japanese Leaf Warbler have occurred in the AOU area - at best 
there is evidence that one or the other has occurred; maybe both but we don't 
know for sure. 


The proposal states that "According to ORNIS, there are at least three 
Aleutians specimens identified as subspecies xanthodryas at UAM. Given that the 
name xanthodryas has previously been applied to both E Asian taxa now split by 
other sources as examinandus and xanthodryas, it seems on geographical grounds 
much more likely to pertain to the species referred to by Alstrom et al (2011) 
as examinandus. The odds of the northerly breeding examinandus occurring in the 
Aleutians are naturally high, while xanthodryas (as restricted by Alstrom et 
al. 2011), which breeds in central and southern Japan, would be an unlikely 
vagrant to the Aleutians. The identity of these specimens needs to be rechecked 
in light of this restriction of xanthodryas." 


The proposal also says: "Arctic Warblers considered to be of the NE race 
examinandus have been recorded in rather large numbers on Shemya Island, with 
for example at least 10 recorded between 15 Sep to 18Oct (Tobish 2006)." 


NOTE my underlines to emphasize the terms used to quantify the ID of these 
records. 


There is nothing in these statements that establishes that examinandus is 
proven to have occurred in the AOU area. I am puzzled that the AOU seems 
willing to state categorically in its change to the Checklist that examinandus 
is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, Amchitka) during spring and autumn 
migration." This has not been proven based on the AOU Proposal, so perhaps 
there is some other evidence that confirms this? 


For me it rather feels like the AOU is saying "these Arctic Warblers have never 
been firmly IDed to taxon level when they were ssp. of borealis, and with this 
split we can't leave them unassigned, so we'll go with the most likely taxon." 


Why can't the checklist leave off examinandus as occurring in the AOU, and 
instead include the first paragraph quoted above? If the three specimens can 
provide proof of examinandus (or more material in the form of audio recordings 
or fresh DNA can provide this) then the species can be added next time, once 
there is proof. 


Note that Clements 6.8 says for the range of xanthodryas (as split from 
examinandus): "Incompletely known. Breeds Japan (Honshu, Shikoku, Kyushu); 
winters range uncertain". Here's a quote from the 2009-2010 Hong Kong Bird 
Report: "Since the period covered by this report, the Arctic Warbler complex 
has been split into three species. Two of these have now been accepted to occur 
in Hong Kong: Arctic Warbler P. borealis and Japanese Leaf Warbler P. 
xanthodryas. Kamchatka Leaf Warbler P. examinandus may also occur. Due to 
difficulties in field identification, all records of this species group are 
included under a single entry in this report." These statements show that the 
now-split xanthodryas is a migrant, and its range is incompletely known but at 
least reaches Hong Kong on migration. The vector from Hong Kong to Honshu, when 
extended north, goes through the Aleutians. 


As for relying on likelihood: here's a quote from the ABA 2003 Checklist 
Report: "Its occurrence in Alaska was unexpected, as Spotted Flycatcher is 
unrecorded anywhere in eastern Asia or the Indian Subcontinent." 


Regards,
Martin
---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com





On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 5:19 PM, Mary Gustafson wrote:

> http://www.aou.org/committees/nacc/proposals/2014-A.pdf
> p. 33 for the split. No, there's not much information there on the split, but 
there are specimens that can be followed up on. 

>  
> Mary Gustafson 
> Mission, Texas
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Reid Martin 
> To: BIRDWG01 
> Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 4:41 pm
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement
> 
> Dear All,
> My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable by voice 
or DNA (is this correct?) 

> Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio recordings 
and/or specimen material that has been genetically examined that back up the 
AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, 
Amchitka) during spring and autumn migration."? 

> Regards,
> Martin
> 
> ---
> Martin Reid
> San Antonio
> www.martinreid.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:
> 
>> HI ALL:
>> Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:
>> 
>> http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1
>> 
>> sincerely
>> -- 
>> 
>> Ian Paulsen
>> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>> Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
>> http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/
>> 
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 17:49:39 -0700
I also wonder how decidedly the California birds were identified as borealis...

At 02:38 PM 7/30/2014, Reid Martin wrote:
>Dear All,
>My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable 
>by voice or DNA (is this correct?)
>Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio 
>recordings and/or specimen material that has been genetically 
>examined that back up the AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual 
>in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, Amchitka) during spring and autumn 
migration."? 

>Regards,
>Martin
>
>---
>Martin Reid
>San Antonio
>www.martinreid.com
>
>
>
>
>
>On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:
>
>>HI ALL:
>>Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:
>>

>>http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1 

>>
>>sincerely
>>--
>>
>>Ian Paulsen
>>Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>>Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
>>http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/
>>
>>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement
From: Reid Martin <upupa AT AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:38:37 -0500
Dear All,
My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable by voice 
or DNA (is this correct?) 

Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio recordings 
and/or specimen material that has been genetically examined that back up the 
AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, 
Amchitka) during spring and autumn migration."? 

Regards,
Martin

---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com





On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:

> HI ALL:
> Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:
> 
> http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1
> 
> sincerely
> -- 
> 
> Ian Paulsen
> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
> Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
> http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: AOU Checklist supplement
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker AT ZIPCON.NET>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:56:32 -0700
HI ALL:
  Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:

http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1

sincerely
-- 

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Flicker
From: Andy Dettling <dendroica AT SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 09:47:31 -0400
Forwarding on Julie's behalf.   See below.

> 
> I am the observer of the intergrade flicker mentioned by Jocelyn Hudon in a 
previous post; my interpretation was based on the best information available at 
the time (2002) and the fact that the bird also had a cafer-like brown crown. 
At any rate, Jocelyn and I have been in frequent communication regarding the 
diet-based pigmentation theory. 

> 
>  
> 
> My area of research for many years has been the role of non-native fruit in 
the diet of birds in urban areas. I have many observations and thousands of 
fecal samples. So the angle I have been pursuing in the flicker issue is if and 
when flickers consume the fruits that contain the pigment rhodoxanthin, the 
pigment responsible for orange tail bands on waxwings and presumably the 
pigment responsible for red feathers on yellow-shafted flickers. 

> 
>  
> 
> Rhodoxanthin is present in the fruit of the non-native bush honeysuckles 
Lonicera tatarica (Tatarian Honeysuckle), L. morrowii (Morrows Honeysuckle), 
their hybrids, L. x bella; as well as Taxus spp. (yews), which we will leave 
aside for the time being. It is not present in L. maackii (Amur Honeysuckle). 

> 
>  
> 
> At least here in southeast Michigan, the rhodoxanthin-containing fruit are 
stripped by mid-August (Amur Honeysuckle blooms and fruits later, becoming 
available in early September). 

> 
>  
> 
> Thus, determining which primaries have red pigmentation, estimating the dates 
they may have been growing, and the phenology of the rhodoxanthin-containing 
honeysuckles is an important part of this puzzle. 

> 
>  
> 
> That might be moot if flickers dont eat any/much honeysuckle fruit to begin 
with. My observations/fecal samples of flickers are limited compared to other 
bird species, but I have no records of them eating honeysuckle fruit; they 
favor poison ivy and shrub dogwoods. 

> 
>  
> 
> Id be interested in compiling evidence on
> 
> 1) instances of flickers eating rhodoxanthin-containing honeysuckle fruit, 
with dates. The easiest way to separate the rhodoxanthin-containing 
honeysuckles from Amur honeysuckle is leaf shape (generally rounded and 
egg-shaped in the rhodoxanthin-containing species, pointed at the tip in Amur) 
and length of the fruit stalk/peduncle (> 5 mm up to 25 mm in 
rhodoxanthin-containing species, very short often < 4 mm in Amur). 

> 
> 2) Phenology of rhodoxanthin-containing species  specificially the date when 
the fruit of these species is no longer available. 

> 
>  
> 
> A final mystery is if/how rhodoxanthin can influence the other 
red-shafted-like plumage traits in yellow-shafted flickers  red feathers in 
mustache, brown crown, etc. 

> 
>  
> 
> Ill pass this data on to Jocelyn. Feel free to send to jac.rrbo AT gmail.com  
any similar data for yews is welcome, too. 

> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Julie A. Craves
> Rouge River Bird Observatory
> University of Michigan-Dearborn
> http://www.rrbo.org
> net-results.blogspot.com
> facebook.com/go.rrbo

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern?
From: Tony Leukering <greatgrayowl AT AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:58:07 -0400
 Dave:

It certainly sounds like that was a fun day! If it weren't for the photos in 
which the bluebird is perched, I would feel confident that it was a Mountain 
Bluebird. The in-flight pix certainly show the paler blue tail and the gray 
back typical of a female Mountain Bluebird. Though the chest is a bit warmer 
than typical, a sizable minority of female Mountains show such (see the 
treatment in the NGS Complete guide). 


However, in the photos of the perched bird -- granted, they're not the best and 
I'd be hesitant to be definitive about anything from them, the bird seems to 
have the high-domed look to the head and thick bill typical of Eastern 
Bluebird. The two species have been known to hybridize. While I'm not writing 
that the bird is not a Mountain Bluebird, I'd be leery of voting to accept were 
I sitting on NYSARC. 


Sincerely,

Tony

 


Tony Leukering
currently Caro, MI

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/

http://aba.org/photoquiz/

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: David Wheeler 
To: BIRDWG01 
Sent: Tue, Jul 29, 2014 4:42 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern?


Thanks for all the comments about the Flicker. Also turning up after-the-fact 
in photos from the same day is this bluebird, which was accompanying a fly-by 
flock of Eastern Bluebirds. It is the bird on the right in the perched photos 
and on the left in the flight photos. We did not notice it in the field but it 
was a very busy day. Comments so far have leaned slightly to Mountain. 



https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/sets/72157645468229712/


Dave Wheeler
N. Syracuse, NY
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern?
From: David Wheeler <tigger64 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:31:58 -0400
Thanks for all the comments about the Flicker. Also turning up after-the-fact 
in photos from the same day is this bluebird, which was accompanying a fly-by 
flock of Eastern Bluebirds. It is the bird on the right in the perched photos 
and on the left in the flight photos. We did not notice it in the field but it 
was a very busy day. Comments so far have leaned slightly to Mountain. 



https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/sets/72157645468229712/


Dave Wheeler
N. Syracuse, NY

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: julian hough <jrhough1 AT SNET.NET>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 05:40:49 -0700
Hi Jerry,

All the birds in the images are Semipalmated Sandpipers and from a plumage 
point of view are typical of that species at this time of year. Structurally, 
females may stand out from the males in a flock by being longer-legged, 
slightly longer bodied/winged and longer-billed but plumage wise there is 
nothing unusual I see in the images to suggest anything other than typical 
Semips. 


Looking through flocks locally here in CT at this time of year, it is apparent 
that Semips are very variable - some being quite grey-toned while others are 
darker/browner. The upperpart color and pattern is rather monochrome, with the 
scapulars having a dark centre (with a pale basal area) and paler buffier 
fringe. 


The breast pattern and underpart markings can be very variable with some 
individuals showing heavily coalesced chevrons/streaking across the breast 
while others are more lightly marked on the breast, but most, like the birds in 
your images, show hairline streaks along the rear flanks and lateral tail 
coverts. 


Hope these comments help.

Thanks,

Julian



Julian Hough
New Haven, CT 06519
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com


________________________________
 From: Jerry Jourdan 
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU 
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid
 


Julian, Kevin(s), et. al.,

To follow up, I was photographing some of the Semipalmated Sandpipers here in 
SE Michigan over the weekend and came across a couple of birds that 'appeared' 
significantly larger than the rest of the Semipalms on the nearby mudflats. 
Here is a typical Semipalm: 

http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778389/large


The middle peep looks larger and heavier-headed than the foreground bird:
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778391


The bird appears darker, more heavily streaked on the breast that might suggest 
a White-rump, but bill shape and wing projection scream Semipalm. I have no 
experience w/ hybrids and am fine w/ Semipalm, but there is just something 
about this bird that requires a second look: 

http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778392

http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778393


I'm grateful for any comments,

Jerry
http://jerryjourdan.blogspot.com






On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 3:28 PM,  wrote:

Julian and all:
>
>the first three shots all look fine for a first summer White-rumped that has 
retained all of its juvenile wing coverts and flight feathers, and replaced its 
upperparts with somewhat typical White-rumped breeding feathers, including the 
dark centers and a few rust edges if you look real close. The head and bill 
shape (although a bit fine-tipped) are fine for White-rumped in these shots, as 
is the long rear body and wings that reach the tail tip, which is fine for some 
smaller male White-rumpeds whose wings do not extend past the tail. The pale 
legs could just be a by-product of low sexual hormones in this nobreeding bird, 
who probably did not go north to breed, with many post-breeding Semipalmated 
Sandpipers showing similar gray to pale straw-colored legs in August. I don't 
see any hybrid influence in this bird, and the heavily streaked upper breast 
and lack of flank streaking is fine for some first summer White-rumpeds that I 
have seen in NJ in June. 

 The last shot is a weird posture that I dismissed from any evaluation 
pertinent to the ID due to the odd angle of the head going away and the 
outstretched neck. Kevin Karlson 

>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: "hough, julian" 
>To: "Frontiers, ID" 
>Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36:06 PM
>
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid
>
>
>
>I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking 
sandpiper I took in CT many July's ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if 
it 

is to the point that it is not identifiable (or maybe it is!)
>

>https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 

>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Julian
>
>Julian Hough
>CT, 06519 
>USA
>jrhough1 AT snet.net
>
>
>Blog: www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
>website: www.JulianRHough.com
>
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 
>
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Florida junco followup
From: Bill Pranty <billpranty AT HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 22:51:49 -0400
Good evening,

A month ago I posted an RFI to this list referring to a junco that Dave Gagne, 
Gail Deterra, and I discovered and that Gail and I photographed, at North 
Anclote Bar, Anclote Key Preserve State Park, Pasco County, Florida, on 30 June 
2014. We identified the junco as being an "Oregon" type, a subspecies-group 
that had never been verifiably documented previously in Florida. 


Through this list and personal contact, I received comments from 11 others, all 
of whom agreed that the bird was an "Oregon" Junco. (Thanks to Cameron Cox, 
Elias Elias, Ted Floyd, Jon Greenlaw, Richard Hoyer, Alvaro Jaramillo, Ed 
Kwater, Tony Leukering, MIchael Price, Peter Pyle, and David Sibley). Four 
observers sexed the junco as a male, and two aged it as a second-calendar-year. 
Based on its plumage and appearance in Florida, Peter and Ted suggested that 
the junco was of the migratory subspecies montanus (following Nolan et al. 
2002, BNA account) or shufeldti (following Pyle 1997 and others) that breeds 
from central British Columbia and southwestern Alberta to eastern Oregon, 
western Idaho, and western Montana. 


According to Stevenson and Anderson (1994, The Birdlife of Florida), all 
specimens of Dark-eyed Junco in Florida are of the nominate "Slate-colored" 
subspecies J. h. hyemalis, except for one J. h. cistmontanus ("Cassiar" Junco) 
felled by a TV tower at Tallahassee, 5 December 1955. This specimen is housed 
at Tall Timbers Research Station (# 2165). Through courtesy of Jim Cox, today I 
received three photographs of this specimen. To me, it seems like a rather 
typical eastern "Slate-colored" Junco, with gray plumage showing minor brown 
highlights and with no contrast between the head and back. 


The three photos of TTRS 2165, and three of Gail's image of the North Anclote 
Bar "Oregon" Junco are posted at the link below. 


Comments are welcome.

http://postimg.org/gallery/3cvj8wt8/

Thank you.


Best regards,

Bill Pranty
Bayonet Point, Florida
 		 	   		  
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Asian Raptor ID articles
From: Robert DeCandido PhD <rdcny AT EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 21:53:32 -0500
Below find download links to three newly published (popular) articles on
raptors in Thailand and Nepal. The articles stem from our raptor migration
work along the east coast of southern Thailand (Khao Dinsor), as well as up
in the mountains of Nepal near Pokhara (Thoolakharka). 

Each article contains many color photos of Asian raptors in the hand and in
flight:

(1) Flight Identification of Six Southeast Asian Accipiter Species: Chinese
Sparrowhawk; Japanese Sparrowhawk; Shikra; Besra; Crested Goshawk and
Eurasian Sparrowhawk. Here is the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/641kigil1ftpveq/Accipiters.Thailand.ID.2014.pdf


(2) Ringing (Banding) migrant sparrowhawks in southern Thailand:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oo7bsj9b0g921r8/Sparrowhawks.Banding.Thailand.2014.pdf 



(3) Flight identification of Black-eared Kite and Pariah Kite in Nepal
and Thailand:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccwpydvmjl0okgw/Kite.BlackEared.Pariah.2014.pdf


All the articles were published in BirdingASIA within the last year. We
recommend reading each of the articles as a two-page display - in Adobe
Acrobat go to:  VIEW  > PAGE DISPLAY > TWO PAGE  VIEW 

If you want to know more about our research site in Thailand, download this
article:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ru91nrrdcpvubhl/2012.FinalReport.KhaoDinsor.pdf

If you want to know more about our research site in Nepal, download this
article: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qd93z67e18mtlzb/2013.FinalReport.Nepal.pdf

Any questions, problems, concerns: do send them this way.

Robert DeCandido PhD 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Allen's vs Rufous Hummingbird question
From: Steve Hampton <stevechampton AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 18:47:18 -0700
All,

I've obtained more pics and posted them at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/7202050 AT N04/sets/72157645569533218/

I'm feeling pretty solid about imm male Allen's, with R5 on the right side
molted and now an adult feather.




On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Steve Hampton 
wrote:

> All,
>
> I am seeking opinions on this hummingbird here:
> 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/7202050 AT N04/14783504333/in/set-72157645569533218 

> There are two photos.
>
> Photographed July 27 in Davis, CA.  (near Sacramento).
>
> Allen's is very rare and difficult to detect here, but recent banding has
> proven they are regular in June-July.  Rufous is a regular migrant in
> spring and fall.  However, the day before this photo, at a banding station
> a few miles from this bird, 4 or 5 Selasphorus banded were Allen's.
>
> This bird appears to be an immature male Allen's with R5 on the right side
> already molted to an adult feather and R5 on the left consistent with juv
> Allen's.
>
> A photo at
> 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/from_barbs_garden_and_beyond/3841302697/in/gallery-tzunun-72157628212716713/ 

> is labeled Rufous, but Sheri Williamson says it is Allen's.  Note it also
> has one R5 of each type.  That photo is from Aug 18.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> thanks,
>
> --
> Steve Hampton
> Davis, CA
>



-- 
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: Jerry Jourdan <jerry.jourdan AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 20:12:22 -0400
Julian, Kevin(s), et. al.,

To follow up, I was photographing some of the Semipalmated Sandpipers here
in SE Michigan over the weekend and came across a couple of birds that
'appeared' significantly larger than the rest of the Semipalms on the
nearby mudflats. Here is a typical Semipalm:
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778389/large

The middle peep looks larger and heavier-headed than the foreground bird:
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778391

The bird appears darker, more heavily streaked on the breast that might
suggest a White-rump, but bill shape and wing projection scream Semipalm. I
have no experience w/ hybrids and am fine w/ Semipalm, but there is just
something about this bird that requires a second look:
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778392
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778393

I'm grateful for any comments,

Jerry
http://jerryjourdan.blogspot.com



On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 3:28 PM,  wrote:

> Julian and all:
> the first three shots all look fine for a first summer White-rumped that
> has retained all of its juvenile wing coverts and flight feathers, and
> replaced its upperparts with somewhat typical White-rumped breeding
> feathers, including the dark centers and a few rust edges if you look real
> close. The head and bill shape (although a bit fine-tipped) are fine for
> White-rumped in these shots, as is the long rear body and wings that reach
> the tail tip, which is fine for some smaller male White-rumpeds whose wings
> do not  extend past the tail. The pale legs could just be a by-product of
> low sexual hormones in this nobreeding bird, who probably did not go north
> to breed, with many post-breeding Semipalmated Sandpipers showing similar
> gray to pale straw-colored legs in August. I don't see any hybrid influence
> in this bird, and the heavily streaked upper breast and lack of flank
> streaking is fine for some first summer White-rumpeds that I have seen in
> NJ in June. The last shot is a weird posture that I dismissed from any
> evaluation pertinent to the ID due to the odd angle of the head going away
> and the outstretched neck. Kevin Karlson
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"hough, julian" 
> *To: *"Frontiers, ID" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36:06 PM
>
> *Subject: *[BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid
>
> I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking sandpiper I took in CT many
> July's ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if it is to the point that
> it is not identifiable (or maybe it is!)
>
>
> 
https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 

>
> Thanks,
>
> Julian
>
> Julian Hough
> CT, 06519
> USA
> jrhough1 AT snet.net
>
> Blog: www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
> website: www.JulianRHough.com
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Jocelyn Hudon <Jocelyn.Hudon AT GOV.AB.CA>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 21:46:51 +0000
Many thanks David for providing a much broader context to the initial flicker 
question than my expeditious post. 


Please allow me to add a few precisions to two of the listed studies:

In spite of what I think was strong evidence for a dietary explanation 
(year-to-year variability in which feathers were red on a single flicker), 
Ingold and Weise (1985) actually invoked a developmental explanation instead: 
genes turned on and off during the molt process that can influence all growing 
flight feathers but that are imperfect in timing, genes always on but exerting 
their action only on certain flight feathers, etc... 


The assessment has been perpetuated in subsequent studies, for example Julie 
Craves' interpretation of a young flicker with red shafts (at 
http://www.rrbo.org/in-the-field/notable-birds/odd-plumages-2/intergrade-flicker/, 
also in a publication in Michigan Birds and Natural History 
(http://www.rrbo.org/pdf/nofl.pdf) . 


Finally, Short counted as intergrades birds just like the one described by Jim, 
well documented in collections, some of which go back quite a few years, so the 
true extent of introgression in the Northern Flicker is likely much more 
limited than currently believed. 


Best,

Jocelyn

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Sibley 

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 2:11 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

Hi Jim and all,

I've been interested in this question for a long time, and can add a few 
observations here that may be useful. First, intergrades (as you would expect) 
are extremely variable, showing the complete range of intermediate plumage 
features; and the appearance of different parts of the bird is not always 
linked. That is, a bird can have wings close to Red-shafted but a face pattern 
more like Yellow-shafted, etc. In general, among the intergrades that I see in 
the northern Great Plains from Minnesota to Montana, wing and tail color is not 
a very reliable way to identify them. I always look for head pattern, which I 
use to confirm a suspected intergrade in a bird with wing color a little bit 
"off", and it also reveals a lot of intergrades that I did not even suspect 
based on wing color. I don't think any records of intergrades (or Red-shafted) 
in the east should be accepted based on wing and tail color alone - only with 
careful study of the head pattern. 


One thing I don't see in intergrades is the contrasting mix of pure yellow and 
pure red flight feather colors shown in the Dave Wheeler photo from Derby Hill. 
A pattern like that suggests the red color was somehow "switched on" during 
molt, and therefore probably doesn't mean an intergrade. Intergrades typically 
show a more uniform and more subtle shading of orange color across all of the 
feathers. 


I'm looking forward to seeing the results of Jocelyn Hudon's research on this. 
In the meantime you might be interested in these older papers. 


Ingold, James L. and Charles M. Weise. 1985. Observations On Feather Color 
Variation in a Presumed Common Flicker intergrade. Journal of Field 
Ornithology. 56: 403-405 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/jfo/v056n04/p0403-p0405.pdf - 
Directly relevant to the Derby Hill birds, an otherwise typical male 
Yellow-shafted Flicker with a few contrasting red flight feathers was trapped 
and banded in Wisconsin in Feb 1976 and again in Feb 1977 and Feb 1978. The 
exact position of red feathers in the wings and tail was different in each of 
the three years (but symmetrical in each year). No other trace of introgression 
was found. They suspected the red color was diet-related. 


Test, F. H. 1969. Relation of wing and tail color of the woodpeckers Colaptes 
auratus and C. cafer to their food. Condor 71: 206-211. 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/condor/v071n02/p0206-p0211.pdf 
- studied captive flickers on a controlled diet, 


Short, Lester L. Jr. 1965. Hybridization in the Flickers (Colaptes) of North 
America. Bull. of the Am. Mus. of Nat. Hist. 129: 307-428 - a massive study of 
variation in flickers, finding an intergrade zone many hundreds of miles wide, 
and evidence of introgression from coast to coast. 


Good Birding,

David Sibley
Concord, MA

On Jul 27, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Jim Tarolli 
> wrote: 



Hi everyone,
This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the 
Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, the 
Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th which 
had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. We 
were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 


On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or answers 
on the subject would be appreciated. 



Jim Tarolli
Baldwinsville, NY
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:24:33 -0700
Regarding color and molt interactions, I often 
see clines in coloration indicating color change 
while a bird is in molt; i.e., clines from p1 to 
p10, from s1 inward, and from the tertials 
outward (actually usually bidirectionally from 
the second tertial, e.g., s8 in passerines). s1 
typically drops about when p6 drops, resulting in 
a contrast between p1 and s1 in these cases (for 
example, first-year male blackbirds, where p1 is 
still brownish, clining towards blacker by p6, 
and s1 matching p6 and contrasting with p1). 
These molt sequence patterns seem very fixed in 
birds (about the only thing about molt that is 
fixed!) and so appears in all taxa. Red beginning 
at p7 in Northern Flicker could represent such a 
pattern, and the coloration could have to do with 
diet (especially reds) or other hormonal 
pigment-deposition processes, of which we know little about.

Alternating feather colors (e.g. red and yellow 
in flickers) is rarer to me in birds, and I'd 
first consider feathers dropping accidentally and 
being replaced according to a different 
color-deposition signal. Or I've seen it 
sometimes within a generation due to 
feather-follicle injury or some other problem. In 
each of these cases, the pattern should not be 
symmetrical between wings. If symmetrical, I'd 
then consider some sort of hormonal balance anomaly.

Peter

At 01:52 PM 7/28/2014, Kevin J. McGowan wrote:
>Cornell has a large series of specimens of 
>Northern Flickers from Lester Short’s Ph.D. 
>work in the 1960s on hybridization across the 
>Great Plains, and I’ve gone through them a 
>number of times. What one sees in the hybrids 
>are a mix of face and feather characteristics 
>(gray crown and brown cheek/ brown crown and 
>gray cheek, red or black mustache, yellow, red 
>or orange feathers), but not mixes of yellow and 
>red feathers in one individual. The colors run 
>from yellow to orange to red, but any one bird 
>has all the feathers the same color.  I forget 
>if tail feathers always match the wings, but I 
>think they do. You do see a mix of black and red 
>in the males’ mustache, though.  I have a scan 
>of an old image of representatives of the series at

>https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mX1nxxeDJlT10xmMmR8Lw9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink 

>(This shot was actually one of the first images 
>I ever put online, back in 1995.)
>
>While I was curating the Cornell collection I 
>noticed that we started getting in a large 
>proportion of flickers  with red in the 
>primaries, and sometimes in the tail. It got so 
>that virtually every individual had some tinge 
>of red, with a few having about half the 
>feathers orange-to-red.  It was always the same 
>feathers, with the shaft of primary 7 (I think) 
>having the deepest coloration. If any feather 
>would have red, it was that one. I figured this 
>pattern indicated molt and diet, and I was 
>guessing this was another case of cheap 
>carotenoids gathered from the invasive 
>honeysuckle that makes Cedar Waxwings’ tails 
>orange. I got a young between-schools student to 
>start looking at specimens in the major 
>collections, but his life took a different turn 
>(as did mine) and we never progressed on the 
>project.  We did prepare a fair number of 
>spread-wing specimens here at Cornell.  I look 
>forward to seeing Jocelyn’s study results!
>
>I’m still working to get decent flight shots 
>of the flickers, but I did manage a decent one 
>of a sitting mixed-color female flicker the other day:

>https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BS8Cccyw5xN9kcFCLpvAQdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink. 

>Note that she has a very red primary, but no 
>hint of gray throat or face. Also, the base of 
>the feather is yellowish. This looks like diet 
>and molt interactions, not genetics to me.
>
>Best,
>
>Kevin
>
>
>Kevin J. McGowan, Ph.D.
>Instructor
>Home Study Course in Bird Biology
>Investigating Behavior: Courtship and Rivalry in Birds
>Cornell Lab of Ornithology
>159 Sapsucker Woods Road
>Ithaca, NY 14850
>Kjm2 AT cornell.edu
>607-254-2452
>
>Do you know about our other distance-learning 
>opportunities? Visit 
>http://www.birds.cornell.edu/courses 
>and learn about our comprehensive Home Study 
>Course in Bird Biology, our online course 
>Investigating 
>Behavior: 
>Courtship and Rivalry in Birds, our 
>Be 
>A Better Birder 
>tutorials, 
>and our series of 
>webinars. 
>Purchase the webinars here.
>
>
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field 
>Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jocelyn Hudon
>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:24 AM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>I am working on a pigment paper showing that the 
>aberrant red shafts are diet-related. The red 
>color in some of these birds is redder than in pure “Red-shafted 
Flickers”! 

>
>I am currently compiling instances of this type 
>of variation to ascertain geographical 
>extent/time of year and would appreciate being 
>informed (privately) of other examples of this. Proper credits will be given.
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Jocelyn
>
>Jocelyn Hudon, Ph.D.
>Curator of Ornithology
>Royal Alberta Museum
>
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field 
>Identification 
>[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] 
>On Behalf Of Jim Tarolli
>Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:30 PM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
>
>Hi everyone,
>This spring we had large numbers of 
>Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the Derby 
>Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY.  The two high 
>counts, per Steve Kolbe, the Derby Hill Hawk 
>counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and 
>April 20th which had 1,250.  We had a couple 
>other days that 150-200 were counted going by. 
>We were able to photograph a few possible 
>intergrades.  In both of the following photos, 
>the birds have some red shafts.  But also, they 
>both appear to have brown faces.  In "The Sibley 
>Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as 
>having a mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe.
>
>On April 11th I photographed this bird: 

>https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

>And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this 
>bird: 

>https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

>Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet 
>related?  Any thoughts or answers on the subject would be appreciated.
>
>
>Jim Tarolli
>Baldwinsville, NY
>Archives: 

>http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

>
>This email and any files transmitted with it are 
>confidential and intended solely for the use of 
>the individual or entity to whom they are 
>addressed. If you have received this email in 
>error please notify the system manager. This 
>message contains confidential information and is 
>intended only for the individual named. If you 
>are not the named addressee you should not 
>disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: UV Bird Photography
From: "Mike O'Keeffe" <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 21:58:58 +0100
Hi,

More on UV photography here including a bit more fine-tuning of the gear and
10 of the 33 Irish butterfly species captured in UV. 
The Common Blue is an absolute gem!  Still working on bird UV images.  More
in due course.

http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/07/more-on-uv-imaging.html 

Regards

Mike

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Thomas Wetmore <ttw4 AT VERIZON.NET>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 17:01:22 -0400
Just a FYI.

On April 21, 1972, my wife and I were en route to grad school in Fairbanks, 
Alaska, and we stopped off for a day at the Theodore Roosevelt National Park in 
North Dakota. We ate lunch in the Cottonwood Campground. The trees around us 
were filled with literally hundreds of flickers of all possible combinations of 
colors and markings. At the time I was strictly an easterner, anxious to get 
his first glimpse at a Red-shafted Flicker (1972 was before the lump). There 
were so many combinations in those many birds that if I remember correctly I 
had to look through a few birds before finding a pure and simple classic 
Red-shafted. 


Tom Wetmore

On Jul 28, 2014, at 4:11 PM, David Sibley  wrote:

> Hi Jim and all,
> 
> Ive been interested in this question for a long time, and can add a few 
observations here that may be useful. First, intergrades (as you would expect) 
are extremely variable, showing the complete range of intermediate plumage 
features; and the appearance of different parts of the bird is not always 
linked. That is, a bird can have wings close to Red-shafted but a face pattern 
more like Yellow-shafted, etc. In general, among the intergrades that I see in 
the northern Great Plains from Minnesota to Montana, wing and tail color is not 
a very reliable way to identify them. I always look for head pattern, which I 
use to confirm a suspected intergrade in a bird with wing color a little bit 
off", and it also reveals a lot of intergrades that I did not even suspect 
based on wing color. I dont think any records of intergrades (or Red-shafted) 
in the east should be accepted based on wing and tail color alone - only with 
careful study of the head pattern. 

> 
> One thing I dont see in intergrades is the contrasting mix of pure yellow 
and pure red flight feather colors shown in the Dave Wheeler photo from Derby 
Hill. A pattern like that suggests the red color was somehow switched on 
during molt, and therefore probably doesnt mean an intergrade. Intergrades 
typically show a more uniform and more subtle shading of orange color across 
all of the feathers. 

> 
> Im looking forward to seeing the results of Jocelyn Hudons research on 
this. In the meantime you might be interested in these older papers. 

> 
> Ingold, James L. and Charles M. Weise. 1985. Observations On Feather Color 
Variation in a Presumed Common Flicker intergrade. Journal of Field 
Ornithology. 56: 403-405 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/jfo/v056n04/p0403-p0405.pdf - 
Directly relevant to the Derby Hill birds, an otherwise typical male 
Yellow-shafted Flicker with a few contrasting red flight feathers was trapped 
and banded in Wisconsin in Feb 1976 and again in Feb 1977 and Feb 1978. The 
exact position of red feathers in the wings and tail was different in each of 
the three years (but symmetrical in each year). No other trace of introgression 
was found. They suspected the red color was diet-related. 

> 
> Test, F. H. 1969. Relation of wing and tail color of the woodpeckers Colaptes 
auratus and C. cafer to their food. Condor 71: 206-211. 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/condor/v071n02/p0206-p0211.pdf 
- studied captive flickers on a controlled diet, 

> 
> Short, Lester L. Jr. 1965. Hybridization in the Flickers (Colaptes) of North 
America. Bull. of the Am. Mus. of Nat. Hist. 129: 307-428 - a massive study of 
variation in flickers, finding an intergrade zone many hundreds of miles wide, 
and evidence of introgression from coast to coast. 

> 
> Good Birding, 
> 
> David Sibley
> Concord, MA
> 
> On Jul 27, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Jim Tarolli  wrote:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by 
the Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, 
the Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th 
which had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. 
We were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 

>> 
>> On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

>> 
>> And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

>> 
>> Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or 
answers on the subject would be appreciated. 

>> 
>> 
>> Jim Tarolli
>> Baldwinsville, NY
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2 AT CORNELL.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 20:52:11 +0000
Cornell has a large series of specimens of Northern Flickers from Lester 
Short’s Ph.D. work in the 1960s on hybridization across the Great Plains, and 
I’ve gone through them a number of times. What one sees in the hybrids are a 
mix of face and feather characteristics (gray crown and brown cheek/ brown 
crown and gray cheek, red or black mustache, yellow, red or orange feathers), 
but not mixes of yellow and red feathers in one individual. The colors run from 
yellow to orange to red, but any one bird has all the feathers the same color. 
I forget if tail feathers always match the wings, but I think they do. You do 
see a mix of black and red in the males’ mustache, though. I have a scan of 
an old image of representatives of the series at 


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mX1nxxeDJlT10xmMmR8Lw9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink 

(This shot was actually one of the first images I ever put online, back in 
1995.) 


While I was curating the Cornell collection I noticed that we started getting 
in a large proportion of flickers with red in the primaries, and sometimes in 
the tail. It got so that virtually every individual had some tinge of red, with 
a few having about half the feathers orange-to-red. It was always the same 
feathers, with the shaft of primary 7 (I think) having the deepest coloration. 
If any feather would have red, it was that one. I figured this pattern 
indicated molt and diet, and I was guessing this was another case of cheap 
carotenoids gathered from the invasive honeysuckle that makes Cedar Waxwings’ 
tails orange. I got a young between-schools student to start looking at 
specimens in the major collections, but his life took a different turn (as did 
mine) and we never progressed on the project. We did prepare a fair number of 
spread-wing specimens here at Cornell. I look forward to seeing Jocelyn’s 
study results! 


I’m still working to get decent flight shots of the flickers, but I did 
manage a decent one of a sitting mixed-color female flicker the other day: 


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BS8Cccyw5xN9kcFCLpvAQdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink. 

Note that she has a very red primary, but no hint of gray throat or face. Also, 
the base of the feather is yellowish. This looks like diet and molt 
interactions, not genetics to me. 


Best,

Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan, Ph.D.
Instructor
Home Study Course in Bird Biology
Investigating Behavior: Courtship and Rivalry in Birds
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
Kjm2 AT cornell.edu
607-254-2452

Do you know about our other distance-learning opportunities? Visit 
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/courses and learn about our comprehensive Home 
Study Course in Bird Biology, our online course Investigating Behavior: 
Courtship and Rivalry in 
Birds, our Be A Better Birder 
tutorials, and our series 
of webinars. Purchase the 
webinars here. 



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jocelyn Hudon 

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:24 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

Hi Jim,

I am working on a pigment paper showing that the aberrant red shafts are 
diet-related. The red color in some of these birds is redder than in pure 
“Red-shafted Flickers”! 


I am currently compiling instances of this type of variation to ascertain 
geographical extent/time of year and would appreciate being informed 
(privately) of other examples of this. Proper credits will be given. 


Many thanks,

Jocelyn

Jocelyn Hudon, Ph.D.
Curator of Ornithology
Royal Alberta Museum

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Tarolli 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:30 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

Hi everyone,
This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the 
Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, the 
Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th which 
had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. We 
were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 


On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or answers 
on the subject would be appreciated. 



Jim Tarolli
Baldwinsville, NY
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: David Sibley <sibleyguides AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:11:18 -0400
Hi Jim and all,

Ive been interested in this question for a long time, and can add a few 
observations here that may be useful. First, intergrades (as you would expect) 
are extremely variable, showing the complete range of intermediate plumage 
features; and the appearance of different parts of the bird is not always 
linked. That is, a bird can have wings close to Red-shafted but a face pattern 
more like Yellow-shafted, etc. In general, among the intergrades that I see in 
the northern Great Plains from Minnesota to Montana, wing and tail color is not 
a very reliable way to identify them. I always look for head pattern, which I 
use to confirm a suspected intergrade in a bird with wing color a little bit 
off", and it also reveals a lot of intergrades that I did not even suspect 
based on wing color. I dont think any records of intergrades (or Red-shafted) 
in the east should be accepted based on wing and tail color alone - only with 
careful study of the head pattern. 


One thing I dont see in intergrades is the contrasting mix of pure yellow and 
pure red flight feather colors shown in the Dave Wheeler photo from Derby Hill. 
A pattern like that suggests the red color was somehow switched on during 
molt, and therefore probably doesnt mean an intergrade. Intergrades typically 
show a more uniform and more subtle shading of orange color across all of the 
feathers. 


Im looking forward to seeing the results of Jocelyn Hudons research on this. 
In the meantime you might be interested in these older papers. 


Ingold, James L. and Charles M. Weise. 1985. Observations On Feather Color 
Variation in a Presumed Common Flicker intergrade. Journal of Field 
Ornithology. 56: 403-405 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/jfo/v056n04/p0403-p0405.pdf - 
Directly relevant to the Derby Hill birds, an otherwise typical male 
Yellow-shafted Flicker with a few contrasting red flight feathers was trapped 
and banded in Wisconsin in Feb 1976 and again in Feb 1977 and Feb 1978. The 
exact position of red feathers in the wings and tail was different in each of 
the three years (but symmetrical in each year). No other trace of introgression 
was found. They suspected the red color was diet-related. 


Test, F. H. 1969. Relation of wing and tail color of the woodpeckers Colaptes 
auratus and C. cafer to their food. Condor 71: 206-211. 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/condor/v071n02/p0206-p0211.pdf 
- studied captive flickers on a controlled diet, 


Short, Lester L. Jr. 1965. Hybridization in the Flickers (Colaptes) of North 
America. Bull. of the Am. Mus. of Nat. Hist. 129: 307-428 - a massive study of 
variation in flickers, finding an intergrade zone many hundreds of miles wide, 
and evidence of introgression from coast to coast. 


Good Birding, 

David Sibley
Concord, MA

On Jul 27, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Jim Tarolli  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by 
the Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, 
the Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th 
which had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. 
We were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 

> 
> On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

> 
> And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

> 
> Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or 
answers on the subject would be appreciated. 

> 
> 
> Jim Tarolli
> Baldwinsville, NY
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 19:28:59 +0000
Julian and all: 
the first three shots all look fine for a first summer White-rumped that has 
retained all of its juvenile wing coverts and flight feathers, and replaced its 
upperparts with somewhat typical White-rumped breeding feathers, including the 
dark centers and a few rust edges if you look real close. The head and bill 
shape (although a bit fine-tipped) are fine for White-rumped in these shots, as 
is the long rear body and wings that reach the tail tip, which is fine for some 
smaller male White-rumpeds whose wings do not extend past the tail. The pale 
legs could just be a by-product of low sexual hormones in this nobreeding bird, 
who probably did not go north to breed, with many post-breeding Semipalmated 
Sandpipers showing similar gray to pale straw-colored legs in August. I don't 
see any hybrid influence in this bird, and the heavily streaked upper breast 
and lack of flank streaking is fine for some first summer White-rumpeds that I 
have seen in NJ in June. The last shot is a weird posture that I dismissed from 
any evaluation pertinent to the ID due to the odd angle of the head going away 
and the outstretched neck. Kevin Karlson 


----- Original Message -----

From: "hough, julian"  
To: "Frontiers, ID"  
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36:06 PM 
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid 

I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking sandpiper I took in CT many July's 
ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if it is to the point that it is not 
identifiable (or maybe it is!) 


https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 

Thanks, 
Julian 
Julian Hough 
CT, 06519 
USA 
jrhough1 AT snet.net 
Blog: www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com 
website: www.JulianRHough.com 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: David Wheeler <tigger64 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:24:25 -0400
I wondered why the red-shafted feathers are mostly in a block on a bird that is 
not otherwise unusual for yellow-shafted. The feathers in the block would be 
molted sequentially so they perhaps form a record (of sorts) of what the bird 
was eating while those feathers were being replaced. I assume known intergrades 
are usually a "sloppy mess" of characteristics. One could also ask: "what will 
it look like a year later?" ie, the birds in the photos could end up looking 
like normal yellow-shafted flickers after the next complete molt. What do true 
intergrades look like after a full molt? Do they end up as before or with a 
different pattern? 



We photographed many fly-by Flickers this spring and at least in my case, am 
just now going through all the photos. 



Dave Wheeler
N. Syracuse, NY
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Richard Klim <richard AT KLIM.CO.UK>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:52:14 +0100
Incidentally, wef 24 Jul 2014, BirdLife/IUCN/HBW split Red-shafted Flicker and 
Guatemalan Flicker from Yellow-shafted Flicker: 

www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/factsheet/22726414
www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/factsheet/22726420
www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/factsheet/22726404

Richard Klim
Somerset, UK

 

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jocelyn Hudon 

Sent: 28 July 2014 16:24
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

 

Hi Jim,

 

I am working on a pigment paper showing that the aberrant red shafts are 
diet-related. The red color in some of these birds is redder than in pure 
“Red-shafted Flickers”! 


 

I am currently compiling instances of this type of variation to ascertain 
geographical extent/time of year and would appreciate being informed 
(privately) of other examples of this. Proper credits will be given. 


 

Many thanks,

 

Jocelyn

 

Jocelyn Hudon, Ph.D.

Curator of Ornithology

Royal Alberta Museum 

 

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Tarolli 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:30 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

 

Hi everyone,

This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the 
Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, the 
Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th which 
had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. We 
were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 



On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 


And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 


Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or answers 
on the subject would be appreciated. 



Jim Tarolli

Baldwinsville, NY

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Jocelyn Hudon <Jocelyn.Hudon AT GOV.AB.CA>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:24:01 +0000
Hi Jim,

I am working on a pigment paper showing that the aberrant red shafts are 
diet-related. The red color in some of these birds is redder than in pure 
“Red-shafted Flickers”! 


I am currently compiling instances of this type of variation to ascertain 
geographical extent/time of year and would appreciate being informed 
(privately) of other examples of this. Proper credits will be given. 


Many thanks,

Jocelyn

Jocelyn Hudon, Ph.D.
Curator of Ornithology
Royal Alberta Museum

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Tarolli 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:30 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

Hi everyone,
This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the 
Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, the 
Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th which 
had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. We 
were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 


On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or answers 
on the subject would be appreciated. 



Jim Tarolli
Baldwinsville, NY
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 
Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: julian hough <jrhough1 AT SNET.NET>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 08:15:31 -0700
Kevin,

Thanks for the reply. I should say that the legs are dark and not pale, a 
feature I omitted in my post. The paleness I think is a photo artifact and 
exacerbated by mud. 

Had they been in fact yellowish, it would have narrowed my identification 
choices considerably. 


The bird was slightly bigger than nearby Semi-ps and to my eyes, since I feel I 
know Least and Pectoral very well, it isn't either of those - structure/jizz, 
leg color and length and breast pattern is wrong for both and bill shape is 
particularly wrong for Pectoral. It could have some Pectoral in it, but I can't 
assign it confidently to any pure species I know. 


Best,

Julian

Julian Hough
New Haven, CT 06519
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com


________________________________
 From: Kevin J. McGowan 
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU 
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid
 


 
Pale legs suggest Pectoral or Least, as does the light streaks on the back.

Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan
Ithaca, NY 14850
Kjm2 AT cornell.edu
607-254-2452

Do you know about our other distance-learning opportunities? Visit 
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/coursesand learn about our comprehensive Home 
Study Course in Bird Biology, our online course InvestigatingBehavior: 
Courtship and Rivalry in Birds, our Be A Better Birder tutorials, and our 
series of webinars. Purchase the webinars here. 




From:NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Julian Hough 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid

I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking sandpiper I took in CT many July's 
ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if it is to the point that it is not 
identifiable (or maybe it is!) 



https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 


Thanks,

Julian

Julian Hough
CT, 06519 
USA
jrhough1 AT snet.net

Blog: www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
website: www.JulianRHough.com
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2 AT CORNELL.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 13:02:31 +0000
Pale legs suggest Pectoral or Least, as does the light streaks on the back.

Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan
Ithaca, NY 14850
Kjm2 AT cornell.edu
607-254-2452

Do you know about our other distance-learning opportunities? Visit 
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/courses and learn about our comprehensive Home 
Study Course in Bird Biology, our online course Investigating Behavior: 
Courtship and Rivalry in 
Birds, our Be A Better Birder 
tutorials, and our series 
of webinars. Purchase the 
webinars here. 




From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Julian Hough 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid

I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking sandpiper I took in CT many July's 
ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if it is to the point that it is not 
identifiable (or maybe it is!) 



https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 


Thanks,

Julian

Julian Hough
CT, 06519
USA
jrhough1 AT snet.net

Blog: 
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com 

website: www.JulianRHough.com
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Allen's vs Rufous Hummingbird question
From: Steve Hampton <stevechampton AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 22:02:03 -0700
All,

I am seeking opinions on this hummingbird here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/7202050 AT N04/14783504333/in/set-72157645569533218
There are two photos.

Photographed July 27 in Davis, CA.  (near Sacramento).

Allen's is very rare and difficult to detect here, but recent banding has
proven they are regular in June-July.  Rufous is a regular migrant in
spring and fall.  However, the day before this photo, at a banding station
a few miles from this bird, 4 or 5 Selasphorus banded were Allen's.

This bird appears to be an immature male Allen's with R5 on the right side
already molted to an adult feather and R5 on the left consistent with juv
Allen's.

A photo at

https://www.flickr.com/photos/from_barbs_garden_and_beyond/3841302697/in/gallery-tzunun-72157628212716713/ 

is labeled Rufous, but Sheri Williamson says it is Allen's.  Note it also
has one R5 of each type.  That photo is from Aug 18.

Comments appreciated.

thanks,

-- 
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Jim Tarolli <jmtarolli9 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:30:26 -0400
Hi everyone,

This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by
the Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY.  The two high counts, per Steve
Kolbe, the Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and
April 20th which had 1,250.  We had a couple other days that 150-200 were
counted going by. We were able to photograph a few possible intergrades.
In both of the following photos, the birds have some red shafts.  But also,
they both appear to have brown faces.  In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it
shows the Intergrade as having a mostly gray face and males having a red
malar stripe.

On April 11th I photographed this bird:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/

And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/

Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related?  Any thoughts or
answers on the subject would be appreciated.


Jim Tarolli
Baldwinsville, NY

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Strange (?) calidrid
From: Julian Hough <jrhough1 AT SNET.NET>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2014 21:36:06 -0400
I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking sandpiper I took in CT many July's 
ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if it is to the point that it is not 
identifiable (or maybe it is!) 



https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 


Thanks,

Julian

Julian Hough
CT, 06519 
USA
jrhough1 AT snet.net

Blog: www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
website: www.JulianRHough.com

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Juvenile Ring-billed with a few gray wing coverts
From: Amar Ayyash <amarayyash AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:52:25 -0500
Chris, the other wing didn't show any gray, but rather, all typical brown
"juvenile" feathers.

Thanks,
Amar


On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Chris Corben  wrote:

>  Gorgeous photo!
>
> What did it show in terms of symmetry?
>
> Cheers, Chris.
>
>
>
> On 07/25/2014 05:00 PM, Amar Ayyash wrote:
>
>  Hi, all. Many of the juvenile Ring-billeds that I observe on southern
> Lake Michigan begin replacing their scapulars (and some upperwing coverts)
> as early as early August.
>
>  I found one individual a couple of days ago with 2-3 gray, adult-like,
> wing coverts. This is somewhat unusual in that RBGUs that show 2nd
> generation wing coverts like this, usually show moderate to extensive
> scapular renewal as well. I think there are 3 possible explanations for
> this:
>
>  1) An early, but expected, PA/PF molt that has begun with the wing
> coverts.
>  2) Juvenile upperwing coverts that were dropped adventitiously
> and then quickly replaced.
>  3) Or, these are juvenile feathers that actually grew out of their
> sheath with this gray color.
>
>  I'd be very appreciative to hear a counter-argument for item #3, seeing
> it's the least likely scenario. But keep in mind that HY Ring-billeds often
> show an entire row of juvenile greater coverts that are mostly gray, and
> when looking closely at their 1st basic scapulars, one can sometimes see a
> considerable amount of gray in those feathers.
>
> Has anyone ever suspected or recorded a HY Ring-billed with gray juvenile
> median and/or lesser upperwing coverts (not dissimilar to juvenile
> Bonaparte's)?
>
>  Thanks in advance.
>
>  Best,
> Amar Ayyash
> Frankfort, IL
>
> www.anythinglarus.com
>
>
>  Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Corben.
>
>
>

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Juvenile Ring-billed with a few gray wing coverts
From: Chris Corben <cjcorben AT HOARYBAT.COM>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:37:13 -0500
Gorgeous photo!

What did it show in terms of symmetry?

Cheers, Chris.


On 07/25/2014 05:00 PM, Amar Ayyash wrote:
> Hi, all. Many of the juvenile Ring-billeds that I observe on southern 
> Lake Michigan begin replacing their scapulars (and some upperwing 
> coverts) as early as early August.
>
> I found one individual a couple of days ago with 2-3 gray, adult-like, 
> wing coverts. This is somewhat unusual in that RBGUs that show 2nd 
> generation wing coverts like this, usually show moderate to extensive 
> scapular renewal as well. I think there are 3 possible explanations 
> for this:
>
> 1) An early, but expected, PA/PF molt that has begun with the wing 
> coverts.
> 2) Juvenile upperwing coverts that were dropped adventitiously 
> and then quickly replaced.
> 3) Or, these are juvenile feathers that actually grew out of their 
> sheath with this gray color.
>
> I'd be very appreciative to hear a counter-argument for item #3, 
> seeing it's the least likely scenario. But keep in mind that HY 
> Ring-billeds often show an entire row of juvenile greater coverts that 
> are mostly gray, and when looking closely at their 1st basic 
> scapulars, one can sometimes see a considerable amount of gray in 
> those feathers.
>
> Has anyone ever suspected or recorded a HY Ring-billed with 
> gray juvenile median and/or lesser upperwing coverts (not dissimilar 
> to juvenile Bonaparte's)?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Best,
> Amar Ayyash
> Frankfort, IL
>
> www.anythinglarus.com 
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 


-- 

Chris Corben.


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Juvenile Ring-billed with a few gray wing coverts
From: Amar Ayyash <amarayyash AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 17:03:31 -0500
Here's a photo of this juvenile Ring-billed:

http://goo.gl/oO0zBa

Thanks,
Amar


On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Amar Ayyash  wrote:

> Hi, all. Many of the juvenile Ring-billeds that I observe on southern Lake
> Michigan begin replacing their scapulars (and some upperwing coverts) as
> early as early August.
>
> I found one individual a couple of days ago with 2-3 gray, adult-like,
> wing coverts. This is somewhat unusual in that RBGUs that show 2nd
> generation wing coverts like this, usually show moderate to extensive
> scapular renewal as well. I think there are 3 possible explanations for
> this:
>
> 1) An early, but expected, PA/PF molt that has begun with the wing coverts.
> 2) Juvenile upperwing coverts that were dropped adventitiously
> and then quickly replaced.
> 3) Or, these are juvenile feathers that actually grew out of their sheath
> with this gray color.
>
> I'd be very appreciative to hear a counter-argument for item #3, seeing
> it's the least likely scenario. But keep in mind that HY Ring-billeds often
> show an entire row of juvenile greater coverts that are mostly gray, and
> when looking closely at their 1st basic scapulars, one can sometimes see a
> considerable amount of gray in those feathers.
>
> Has anyone ever suspected or recorded a HY Ring-billed with gray juvenile
> median and/or lesser upperwing coverts (not dissimilar to juvenile
> Bonaparte's)?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Best,
> Amar Ayyash
> Frankfort, IL
>
> www.anythinglarus.com
>
>
>

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Juvenile Ring-billed with a few gray wing coverts
From: Amar Ayyash <amarayyash AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 17:00:12 -0500
Hi, all. Many of the juvenile Ring-billeds that I observe on southern Lake
Michigan begin replacing their scapulars (and some upperwing coverts) as
early as early August.

I found one individual a couple of days ago with 2-3 gray, adult-like, wing
coverts. This is somewhat unusual in that RBGUs that show 2nd generation
wing coverts like this, usually show moderate to extensive scapular renewal
as well. I think there are 3 possible explanations for this:

1) An early, but expected, PA/PF molt that has begun with the wing coverts.
2) Juvenile upperwing coverts that were dropped adventitiously
and then quickly replaced.
3) Or, these are juvenile feathers that actually grew out of their sheath
with this gray color.

I'd be very appreciative to hear a counter-argument for item #3, seeing
it's the least likely scenario. But keep in mind that HY Ring-billeds often
show an entire row of juvenile greater coverts that are mostly gray, and
when looking closely at their 1st basic scapulars, one can sometimes see a
considerable amount of gray in those feathers.

Has anyone ever suspected or recorded a HY Ring-billed with gray juvenile
median and/or lesser upperwing coverts (not dissimilar to juvenile
Bonaparte's)?

Thanks in advance.

Best,
Amar Ayyash
Frankfort, IL

www.anythinglarus.com

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Birds and UV Light
From: "Mike O'Keeffe" <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:35:01 +0100
Hi,

 

From what I can gather most UV photographers use DSLR stills cameras. While 
this produces higher quality than video it creates some of its own difficulties 
including high equipment costs, long exposure times and images focusing 
difficulties. Not surprisingly perhaps, UV reflectance images of birds seem to 
be practically non-existent on the web. 


 

Well I hope to change that. I had a hunch that the old Digital 8 and Mini-DV 
camcorders which carried IR Night Vision features might offer a better solution 
for the birder than stills photography. So, on that basis I bought a Baader-U 
filter and attached it to various old cameras and camcorders I had lying around 
gathering dust. I trust you find the results of interest. 


 

  
http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/07/uv-imaging.html 


 

Regards

 

Mike O’Keeffe

Ireland  

 

 

 

 

From: Mike O'Keeffe [  
mailto:okeeffeml AT eircom.net] 

Sent: 19 June 2014 20:04
To: 'BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU'
Subject: Birds and UV Light

 

Hi,

 

I hope there are birders out there with some insight into the following 
questions. 


 

Have any birders on this forum taken the plunge and modified or purchased 
specialist camera or video equipment to try and capture UV patterning in birds? 


 

Does anyone know if there has been any systematic investigation of UV 
patterning in the total avifauna of a region? 


 

In particular I am wondering if anyone has taken a UV camera and lamp into a 
large museum collection and viewed or photographed large quantities of skins in 
search for new and unexpected UV reflectance or absorbance plumage patterning? 


 

Lastly, has anyone tried to capture UV and/or full spectrum images of birds in 
the field as opposed to in a more controlled setting like a museum skin 
collection or of birds in captivity, and if so what were the results like? 


 

If anyone has any particular insights into these questions I would love to hear 
from you. 


 

For more thoughts and discussion on this please see 
 
http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/06/birds-and-uv-light.html 


 

Regards

 

Mike O’Keeffe

Ireland

 

 

 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Presumed Grant’s Storm-Petrel onshore + COTExROST hybrid?
From: Mark B Bartosik <MBB22222 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 13:53:33 -0400
Hi All,
 
I would appreciate ID confirmation (or correction) so I could enter valid  
record to the eBird database. I think only couple of documented inland 
records exist in Texas. Not quite ‘inland‘, just onshore but still away 
from 

offshore  deep waters.
 
Grant’s Storm-Petrel (Band-rumped Storm-Petrel complex) ID I based mostly  
on description in Howell’s book (2012) who also states that onshore and 
inland  records are very rare:
 
Most Grant’s [Band-rumped] Storm-Petrels off the East Coast are in obvious  
wing molt during spring, when Leach’s Storm-Petrels are not molting or only 
 starting wing molt. As well as obvious wing molt, note relatively narrow 
white  rump band wrapping around to lateral tail coverts, relatively short 
notched  tail, dull upperwing band, and overall sooty plumage tones.
 
So base on above description and molt timing everything seems point to  
Grant’s.
 
I found this Storm-Petrel very weak on the beach, on June 28 in Galveston  
County but still able to fly. There was some bad, stormy weather in the Gulf 
at  that time.
 
Here are a few photos 
 
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image/156539586
(BTW  I could not find this trait described; the base halves of tail 
feathers are  white, so the tail in fact is bi-colored)
 
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image/156539582
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image/156539585
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image/156539587
And  in flight
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image/156539587
 
This year spring and beginning of summer was incredible on the UTC with  
several very interesting birds showed on the shore. Here is another one if  
somebody wants to take a shot at. Common Tern with extremely long steamers.  
Perhaps possible hybrid COTE X ROST. To me this tern is in interesting molt  
stage case but I cannot be sure if it is pure COTE or not. Hybrids COTE X 
ROST  were found on several occasions. There are also suggestions of checking 
Eastern  Common Tern Sterna hirundo longipennis but as S. h. hirundo can 
also have black  bill (records exist) in breeding plumage it will be difficult 
to ID; in non  breeding plumage practically impossible. Perhaps someone with 
experience with  both (Common and Roseate) and/or longipennis can post an 
opinion. Red arrows are  mostly pointed to molt traits but the shape and 
length of the white V on inner webs of the outer primaries are diagnostic when 

separating COTE and ROST.  My most important question is: can Common have 
so long steamers?
 
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image/156479069/original
 
BTW I recall that there was an interesting study done showing  that  bill 
color in breeding plumage depends on diet and stress, and can change quite  
rapidly. Also I have seen adult (ASY) Least Tern, end of spring, in full  
breeding plumage (all black cap) with all black bill and very dark legs; sort 
of  like miniature Sooty (the head pattern). But, no, I do not suggest that  
something scared the hell out of this bird to change the bill color. Rather  
hormonal imbalance. 
 
Cheers,
 
Mark
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: NM Fall Sandpiper
From: karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 17:58:43 +0000
all: I am responding mostly to Kevin's comments about how the primary 
projection was outside the range of Western Sandpiper, and also how the plumage 
condition was not a juvenile bird. Female Western Sandpipers often show primary 
projection past the tail, unlike smaller males who typically don't. This bird's 
primary projection is well within the range of normal primary projection for a 
large female Western, whose wings are proportionally longer than males. I have 
provided a link to a juvenile female Western on my website that shows a similar 
bill, similar long legs (also typical of large female Westerns, who show much 
longer legs than males), and a much more worn appearance to the retained 
juvenile feathers than the NM bird, but this is because my bird was 
photographed three weeks later on Sept. 19. 
http://www.kevinkarlsonphotography.com/gallery/v/Shorebirds/Sandpipers/Peep/Western+Sandpiper+juv+fem_+NJ_+Sept+.jpg.html 



The very pale appearance to this bird is mainly because the lighting is strong 
overhead light, and the images are clearly overexposed (note the pale gray 
versus black primaries on this bird, which suggests a lightening of the photo 
that gives the bird a much paler appearance than real life. It is very easy to 
over lighten a shorebird photo, with even a few degrees of lightening creating 
very pale looking feathers. 


On some juvenile Westerns, the wing coverts show virtually no internal 
markings, similar to the NM bird, while others will show a dark central shaft 
line, like my photo. Westerns are variable in this respect, but the feathers on 
this bird are clearly juvenile feathers that have not been replaced yet (as 
Julian Hough pointed out in his response). My bird shows much longer upperpart 
feathers and wing coverts, while the NM bird still has relatively neatly 
arranged wing coverts, similar to a younger bird. As Julian pointed out, 
Western juveniles usually start to replace upperpart feathers by early to 
mid-September, so this juvenile showing all juvenile feathers is also within 
the molt timing schedule of Westerns. My bird shows a few grayer scapulars 
coming in, but this is Sept. 19. The pattern of rusty scapulars and otherwise 
gray plumage can only be a juvenile bird, with no adult or late first cycle 
Western in nonbreeding plumage ever showing rusty markings to the upperparts, 
as Kevin M suggested. There is really nothing extraordinary about this bird 
other than the pale appearance, and I strongly feel it is a result of over 
lightening. 


Kevin Karlson 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Fw: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 15:58:43 +0000
      
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--_000_390C090471A3A241991BBF3AD2CD64380C5EB8F5DFLE10entticom_--

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Subject: Re: Fw: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
From: Suzanne Sullivan <swampy435 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 06:51:43 -0400
All,
One thing that I have learned over the years is a slight  primary
extension (of one, hardly ever 2) past the tail on juv. Calidris like
SESA is more the norm than not. The wing tips of the subject bird
appear to be sharp, well pointed as opposed to more rounded of an
adult, I believe another common trait of juveniles. The difference in
juveniles from adult primaries is theorized to aid them in flight
because they are not as good of fliers and when you have a Peregrine
on your tail you better have some help or you become lunch. So I agree
with the others' comments, I don't think it is a good enough reason to
consider something else than juv. Western and I don't think all that
unusual. A search on line will also show many juv. Westerns with
primary extension. I do agree also that this appears to be a juv.
Western. Considering there are so many factors that control molt
timing, I also don't think the stage of molt and faded feathers are
that unusual. That being said, living in Massachusetts, we obviously
get Westerns, mostly juv. but I do not have as much experience with
Westerns as the other Caliidris. But the same rules apply as far as
primary extension/projection.

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 10:54 PM, julian hough  wrote:
> Kevin et al,
>
> Given the date, it doesn't look like a classic juvenile Western, although I
> do agree with the bird being a Western..the primary projection doesn't
> really extend past the wingtip to be much of a concern. Also, the tertials
> may not be fully grown and appear pushed up, so are exposing more of the
> primaries..maybe this suggests the wings are longer than they are in
> reality?
>
> I don't see the need to invoke a hybrid with this individual since structure
> and plumage fit Western.
>
> The plumage is rather pallid for a typical juvenile Western, at least in my
> experience of birds here in the east. It may just be a rather pale variant
> juvenile, especially since the feather centers of the lower scaps and
> greater coverts seem pale and unmarked than in a "typical" juvenile. The
> richly patterned feathers on the topshot seem fine for retained juvenile
> feathers.
>
> As for molt, and I am sure someone else with more time and a critical eye
> can add more on the state of molt of this individual. Based on my notes,
> from the first week of September, many juveniles have replaced the lower
> scapulars and crown feathers with new, greyer, formative (first-winter)
> feathers. In the NM bird, all the feathers seem to be of the same generation
> and the primaries look fresh – there seems to be a neat row of grey
> formative (first-winter) scaps coming in  - and the head and crown seems to
> have molted out the juvenile feathers. So, it appears as I would expect a
> Western to look – except that it seems a bit earlier than usual in my
> experience.
>
> So, my thoughts are that this is just a rather pale Western Sandpiper that
> is in an advanced state of molt into formative (first-winter) plumage.
>
> Julian Hough
> New Haven, CT 06519
> www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
>
>
>
> From: Kevin McLaughlin 
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 5:58 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
>
> Noah.
>
> To answer your question first…No, this is not OK for a Western Sandpiper.
> Along with the long legs and heavy Dunlin-like bill, Western is precluded in
> my view by the long primary tip extension which, as you noted, projects
> clearly past the tail tip. I also disagree with this being a juvenile of any
> species. The uniform pale gray upperparts give the look of a basic plumaged
> sandpiper (i.e. first alternate) of the genus calidris. The median and
> greater coverts are pale gray with a dark shaft streak and worn tip fringes.
> I see the covert fringes as being much too abraded for a juvenile Western in
> late August.  The bits of red in the tertials, upper scapulars and mantle
> can be explained in another way. This is to say a partial acquisition of
> alternate feathering in second calendar year.
>
> You should consider your bird as being a putative hybrid. I am not clear on
> the occurrence of any apparent Baird’s Sandpiper x Dunlin in North America.
> However, Nick Anich published an excellent paper last year in Wisconsin
> detailing approximately 20 suspected White-rumped Sandpiper x Dunlin hybrids
> in Canada and the USA. Among these were three from Ontario, including the
> first, carefully documented and copiously photographed at Point Pelee in May
> 1994.
>
> Kevin McLaughlin
> Hamilton, Ontario.
>
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
> [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Noah Arthur
> Sent: July-09-14 1:29 AM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
>
> Yes, I agree the pale plumage is within range for juv Western. It's not the
> plumage that was bothering me for Western -- it's the very long primary
> projection. The wingtips project well past the tail tip, and cross over each
> other, making the rear end look very Baird's-like. Is this still okay for
> Western?
>
> Thanks
>
> Noah
>
> On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 1:04 PM,  wrote:
> Jeff and all:
> An adult would never replace its wing coverts in perfect synchrony like this
> bird shows, which is a trait of juvenile birds who grow all their wing
> coverts concurrently. An adult bird would show a gradual replacement of wing
> coverts over a period of time, and would not show the incredibly neatly
> arranged wing panel. I also don't think that this juvenile has molted any of
> its juvenile feathers, but instead shows typical worn edges to the wing
> coverts and a typical juvenile upperpart pattern that includes prominent
> rusty scapular lines. While the feathers are paler than normal, it could be
> a factor of light reflection, camera exposure and sun bleaching. Kevin
> Karlson
>
> From: "Jeff Gilligan" 
> To: "karlson, kevin" 
> Cc: "Frontiers, ID" 
> Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:02:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
>
>
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:35 PM, karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET wrote:
>
>
> Noah and all:
> Other than the pale appearance, which may be a result of slightly
> sun-bleached juvenile feathers, this is a perfectly fine juvenile female
> Western Sandpiper. An early second cycle bird that goes into its first adult
> basic molt in July to mid-August would not show the contrasting rusty
> scapular lines that this bird shows, and would instead have uniformly pale
> upperpart feathers with no rust markings. The neatly arranged worn wing
> coverts are fine for a late August juvenile Western, which could have
> hatched as early as mid-to-late June. Kevin Karlson
>
>
>
> Kevin and all
>
> I agree that it is a female Western Sandpiper.  I was back and forth a bit
> on its age.  I don't recall ever seeing a juvenile that had progressed so
> far in its molt by late August though, and to me  it looks to be a paler and
> cleaner plumage overall for a first winter bird with retained rufous
> scapular lines.  The plumage overall (except for the scapulars) looks fine
> for a winter adult.  I am speculating that it is an adult that just hasn't
> molted its scapulars, though they are very pretty bright and obvious for an
> adult that late in the summer.
>
> Jeff Gilligan
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



-- 
Suzanne M. Sullivan
Wilmington, MA
swampy435 AT gmail.com

Be the Voice of the River
http://www.ipswichriver.org

Please support me in Buzz for a Cure
http://my.e2rm.com/PersonalPage.aspx?registrationID=2319868&langPref=en-CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Fw: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
From: julian hough <jrhough1 AT SNET.NET>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 19:54:20 -0700
Kevin et al,


Given the date, it doesn't look like a classic juvenile Western, although I do 
agree with the bird being a Western..the primary projection doesn't really 
extend past the wingtip to be much of a concern. Also, the tertials may not be 
fully grown and appear pushed up, so are exposing more of the primaries..maybe 
this suggests the wings are longer than they are in reality? 


I don't see the need to invoke a hybrid with this individual since structure 
and plumage fit Western. 


The plumage is rather pallid for a typical juvenile Western, at least in my 
experience of birds here in the east. It may just be a rather pale variant 
juvenile, especially since the feather centers of the lower scaps and greater 
coverts seem pale and unmarked than in a "typical" juvenile. The richly 
patterned feathers on the topshot seem fine for retained juvenile feathers. 


As for molt, and I am sure someone else with more time and a critical eye can 
add more on the state of molt of this individual. Based on my notes, from the 
first week of September, many juveniles have replaced the lower scapulars and 
crown feathers with new, greyer, formative (first-winter) feathers. In the NM 
bird, all the feathers seem to be of the same generation and the primaries look 
fresh – there seems to be a neat row of grey formative (first-winter) scaps 
coming in  - and the head and crown seems to have molted out the juvenile 
feathers. So, it appears as I would expect a Western to look – except that it 
seems a bit earlier than usual in my experience.  


So, my thoughts are that this is just a rather pale Western Sandpiper that is 
in an advanced state of molt into formative (first-winter) plumage. 


Julian Hough
New Haven, CT 06519
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
 



________________________________
 From: Kevin McLaughlin 
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
  


Noah.
 
To answer your question first…No, this is not OK for a Western Sandpiper. 
Along with the long legs and heavy Dunlin-like bill, Western is precluded in my 
view by the long primary tip extension which, as you noted, projects clearly 
past the tail tip. I also disagree with this being a juvenile of any species. 
The uniform pale gray upperparts give the look of a basic plumaged sandpiper 
(i.e. first alternate) of the genus calidris. The median and greater coverts 
are pale gray with a dark shaft streak and worn tip fringes. I see the covert 
fringes as being much too abraded for a juvenile Western in late August.  The 
bits of red in the tertials, upper scapulars and mantle can be explained in 
another way. This is to say a partial acquisition of alternate feathering in 
second calendar year. 

 
You should consider your bird as being a putative hybrid. I am not clear on the 
occurrence of any apparent Baird’s Sandpiper x Dunlin in North America. 
However, Nick Anich published an excellent paper last year in Wisconsin 
detailing approximately 20 suspected White-rumped Sandpiper x Dunlin hybrids in 
Canada and the USA. Among these were three from Ontario, including the first, 
carefully documented and copiously photographed at Point Pelee in May 1994. 

 
Kevin McLaughlin
Hamilton, Ontario.
 
From:NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Noah Arthur 

Sent: July-09-14 1:29 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
 
Yes, I agree the pale plumage is within range for juv Western. It's not the 
plumage that was bothering me for Western -- it's the very long primary 
projection. The wingtips project well past the tail tip, and cross over each 
other, making the rear end look very Baird's-like. Is this still okay for 
Western? 

 
Thanks
 
Noah
 
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 1:04 PM,  wrote:
Jeff and all:
An adult would never replace its wing coverts in perfect synchrony like this 
bird shows, which is a trait of juvenile birds who grow all their wing coverts 
concurrently. An adult bird would show a gradual replacement of wing coverts 
over a period of time, and would not show the incredibly neatly arranged wing 
panel. I also don't think that this juvenile has molted any of its juvenile 
feathers, but instead shows typical worn edges to the wing coverts and a 
typical juvenile upperpart pattern that includes prominent rusty scapular 
lines. While the feathers are paler than normal, it could be a factor of light 
reflection, camera exposure and sun bleaching. Kevin Karlson 

 

________________________________

From: "Jeff Gilligan" 
To: "karlson, kevin" 
Cc: "Frontiers, ID" 
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:02:03 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
 
 
 
On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:35 PM, karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET wrote:
 
>Noah and all:
>Other than the pale appearance, which may be a result of slightly sun-bleached 
juvenile feathers, this is a perfectly fine juvenile female Western Sandpiper. 
An early second cycle bird that goes into its first adult basic molt in July to 
mid-August would not show the contrasting rusty scapular lines that this bird 
shows, and would instead have uniformly pale upperpart feathers with no rust 
markings. The neatly arranged worn wing coverts are fine for a late August 
juvenile Western, which could have hatched as early as mid-to-late June. Kevin 
Karlson 

> 
>
>________________________________
>
 
Kevin and all
 
I agree that it is a female Western Sandpiper.  I was back and forth a bit on 
its age.  I don't recall ever seeing a juvenile that had progressed so far in 
its molt by late August though, and to me  it looks to be a paler and cleaner 
plumage overall for a first winter bird with retained rufous scapular lines. 
 The plumage overall (except for the scapulars) looks fine for a winter adult. 
 I am speculating that it is an adult that just hasn't molted its scapulars, 
though they are very pretty bright and obvious for an adult that late in the 
summer.   

 
Jeff Gilligan
 
 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 
 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: NM fall sandpiper
From: Kevin McLaughlin <kam50 AT SHAW.CA>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 05:58:47 -0400
Noah.

 

To answer your question first…No, this is not OK for a Western Sandpiper. 
Along with the long legs and heavy Dunlin-like bill, Western is precluded in my 
view by the long primary tip extension which, as you noted, projects clearly 
past the tail tip. I also disagree with this being a juvenile of any species. 
The uniform pale gray upperparts give the look of a basic plumaged sandpiper 
(i.e. first alternate) of the genus calidris. The median and greater coverts 
are pale gray with a dark shaft streak and worn tip fringes. I see the covert 
fringes as being much too abraded for a juvenile Western in late August. The 
bits of red in the tertials, upper scapulars and mantle can be explained in 
another way. This is to say a partial acquisition of alternate feathering in 
second calendar year. 


 

You should consider your bird as being a putative hybrid. I am not clear on the 
occurrence of any apparent Baird’s Sandpiper x Dunlin in North America. 
However, Nick Anich published an excellent paper last year in Wisconsin 
detailing approximately 20 suspected White-rumped Sandpiper x Dunlin hybrids in 
Canada and the USA. Among these were three from Ontario, including the first, 
carefully documented and copiously photographed at Point Pelee in May 1994. 


 

Kevin McLaughlin

Hamilton, Ontario.

 

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Noah Arthur 

Sent: July-09-14 1:29 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper

 

Yes, I agree the pale plumage is within range for juv Western. It's not the 
plumage that was bothering me for Western -- it's the very long primary 
projection. The wingtips project well past the tail tip, and cross over each 
other, making the rear end look very Baird's-like. Is this still okay for 
Western? 


 

Thanks

 

Noah

 

On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 1:04 PM,  wrote:

Jeff and all:

An adult would never replace its wing coverts in perfect synchrony like this 
bird shows, which is a trait of juvenile birds who grow all their wing coverts 
concurrently. An adult bird would show a gradual replacement of wing coverts 
over a period of time, and would not show the incredibly neatly arranged wing 
panel. I also don't think that this juvenile has molted any of its juvenile 
feathers, but instead shows typical worn edges to the wing coverts and a 
typical juvenile upperpart pattern that includes prominent rusty scapular 
lines. While the feathers are paler than normal, it could be a factor of light 
reflection, camera exposure and sun bleaching. Kevin Karlson 


 

  _____  

From: "Jeff Gilligan" 
To: "karlson, kevin" 
Cc: "Frontiers, ID" 
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:02:03 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper

 

 

 

On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:35 PM, karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET wrote:

 

Noah and all:

Other than the pale appearance, which may be a result of slightly sun-bleached 
juvenile feathers, this is a perfectly fine juvenile female Western Sandpiper. 
An early second cycle bird that goes into its first adult basic molt in July to 
mid-August would not show the contrasting rusty scapular lines that this bird 
shows, and would instead have uniformly pale upperpart feathers with no rust 
markings. The neatly arranged worn wing coverts are fine for a late August 
juvenile Western, which could have hatched as early as mid-to-late June. Kevin 
Karlson 


 


  _____  


 

Kevin and all

 

I agree that it is a female Western Sandpiper. I was back and forth a bit on 
its age. I don't recall ever seeing a juvenile that had progressed so far in 
its molt by late August though, and to me it looks to be a paler and cleaner 
plumage overall for a first winter bird with retained rufous scapular lines. 
The plumage overall (except for the scapulars) looks fine for a winter adult. I 
am speculating that it is an adult that just hasn't molted its scapulars, 
though they are very pretty bright and obvious for an adult that late in the 
summer. 


 

Jeff Gilligan

 

 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: NM fall sandpiper
From: Noah Arthur <semirelicta AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 22:29:29 -0700
Yes, I agree the pale plumage is within range for juv Western. It's not the
plumage that was bothering me for Western -- it's the very long primary
projection. The wingtips project well past the tail tip, and cross over
each other, making the rear end look very Baird's-like. Is this still okay
for Western?

Thanks

Noah


On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 1:04 PM,  wrote:

> Jeff and all:
> An adult would never replace its wing coverts in perfect synchrony like
> this bird shows, which is a trait of juvenile birds who grow all their wing
> coverts concurrently. An adult bird would show a gradual replacement of
> wing coverts over a period of time, and would not show the incredibly
> neatly arranged wing panel. I also don't think that this juvenile has
> molted any of its juvenile feathers, but instead shows typical worn edges
> to the wing coverts and a typical juvenile upperpart pattern that includes
> prominent rusty scapular lines. While the feathers are paler than normal,
> it could be a factor of light reflection, camera exposure and sun
> bleaching. Kevin Karlson
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Jeff Gilligan" 
> *To: *"karlson, kevin" 
> *Cc: *"Frontiers, ID" 
> *Sent: *Monday, July 7, 2014 8:02:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper
>
>
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:35 PM, karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET wrote:
>
> Noah and all:
> Other than the pale appearance, which may be a result of slightly
> sun-bleached juvenile feathers, this is a perfectly fine juvenile female
> Western Sandpiper. An early second cycle bird that goes into its first
> adult basic molt in July to mid-August would not show the contrasting rusty
> scapular lines that this bird shows, and would instead have uniformly pale
> upperpart feathers with no rust markings. The neatly arranged worn wing
> coverts are fine for a late August juvenile Western, which could have
> hatched as early as mid-to-late June. Kevin Karlson
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Kevin and all
>
> I agree that it is a female Western Sandpiper.  I was back and forth a bit
> on its age.  I don't recall ever seeing a juvenile that had progressed so
> far in its molt by late August though, and to me  it looks to be a paler
> and cleaner plumage overall for a first winter bird with retained rufous
> scapular lines.  The plumage overall (except for the scapulars) looks fine
> for a winter adult.  I am speculating that it is an adult that just hasn't
> molted its scapulars, though they are very pretty bright and obvious for an
> adult that late in the summer.
>
> Jeff Gilligan
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: NM fall sandpiper
From: karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 20:04:48 +0000
Jeff and all: 
An adult would never replace its wing coverts in perfect synchrony like this 
bird shows, which is a trait of juvenile birds who grow all their wing coverts 
concurrently. An adult bird would show a gradual replacement of wing coverts 
over a period of time, and would not show the incredibly neatly arranged wing 
panel. I also don't think that this juvenile has molted any of its juvenile 
feathers, but instead shows typical worn edges to the wing coverts and a 
typical juvenile upperpart pattern that includes prominent rusty scapular 
lines. While the feathers are paler than normal, it could be a factor of light 
reflection, camera exposure and sun bleaching. Kevin Karlson 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Jeff Gilligan"  
To: "karlson, kevin"  
Cc: "Frontiers, ID"  
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 8:02:03 PM 
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper 


On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:35 PM, karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET wrote: 




Noah and all: 
Other than the pale appearance, which may be a result of slightly sun-bleached 
juvenile feathers, this is a perfectly fine juvenile female Western Sandpiper. 
An early second cycle bird that goes into its first adult basic molt in July to 
mid-August would not show the contrasting rusty scapular lines that this bird 
shows, and would instead have uniformly pale upperpart feathers with no rust 
markings. The neatly arranged worn wing coverts are fine for a late August 
juvenile Western, which could have hatched as early as mid-to-late June. Kevin 
Karlson 


----- Original Message -----




Kevin and all 

I agree that it is a female Western Sandpiper. I was back and forth a bit on 
its age. I don't recall ever seeing a juvenile that had progressed so far in 
its molt by late August though, and to me it looks to be a paler and cleaner 
plumage overall for a first winter bird with retained rufous scapular lines. 
The plumage overall (except for the scapulars) looks fine for a winter adult. I 
am speculating that it is an adult that just hasn't molted its scapulars, 
though they are very pretty bright and obvious for an adult that late in the 
summer. 


Jeff Gilligan 



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: NM fall sandpiper
From: Jeff Gilligan <jeffgilligan10 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 17:02:03 -0700
On Jul 7, 2014, at 12:35 PM, karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET wrote:

> Noah and all:
> Other than the pale appearance, which may be a result of slightly 
sun-bleached juvenile feathers, this is a perfectly fine juvenile female 
Western Sandpiper. An early second cycle bird that goes into its first adult 
basic molt in July to mid-August would not show the contrasting rusty scapular 
lines that this bird shows, and would instead have uniformly pale upperpart 
feathers with no rust markings. The neatly arranged worn wing coverts are fine 
for a late August juvenile Western, which could have hatched as early as 
mid-to-late June. Kevin Karlson 

> 

Kevin and all

I agree that it is a female Western Sandpiper. I was back and forth a bit on 
its age. I don't recall ever seeing a juvenile that had progressed so far in 
its molt by late August though, and to me it looks to be a paler and cleaner 
plumage overall for a first winter bird with retained rufous scapular lines. 
The plumage overall (except for the scapulars) looks fine for a winter adult. I 
am speculating that it is an adult that just hasn't molted its scapulars, 
though they are very pretty bright and obvious for an adult that late in the 
summer. 


Jeff Gilligan


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: NM fall sandpiper
From: karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 19:35:55 +0000
Noah and all: 
Other than the pale appearance, which may be a result of slightly sun-bleached 
juvenile feathers, this is a perfectly fine juvenile female Western Sandpiper. 
An early second cycle bird that goes into its first adult basic molt in July to 
mid-August would not show the contrasting rusty scapular lines that this bird 
shows, and would instead have uniformly pale upperpart feathers with no rust 
markings. The neatly arranged worn wing coverts are fine for a late August 
juvenile Western, which could have hatched as early as mid-to-late June. Kevin 
Karlson 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Noah Arthur"  
To: "Frontiers, ID"  
Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 12:59:59 AM 
Subject: [BIRDWG01] NM fall sandpiper 

Hi everyone. 

First off, I'm sorry if I've already posted this on here before... Anyway, I 
got point-blank views of this lone Calidris sandpiper at Leasburg Dam, Dona Ana 
Co., NM last year in late August: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/73989529 AT N02/sets/72157645536904795/ 


Most characteristics line up with Western, but the plumage is very pale, the 
bill suspiciously long, and -- strangest of all -- the wingtips extend 
noticeably past the tail tip and cross over each other, reminding me of Baird's 
Sandpiper. Also, it seemed odd that this bird was all by itself with no other 
sandpipers around for miles -- although there were whole flocks of Westerns 
just a few miles down river... 


Thanks! 

Noah Arthur, Oakland, CA 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: NM fall sandpiper
From: Jeff Gilligan <jeffgilligan10 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 23:05:49 -0700
I think it looks like an adult female Western Sandpiper, mostly molted into 
winter (basic) plumage. By late August adults are typically very pale. 


Jeff Gilligan
Oregon



On Jul 5, 2014, at 9:59 PM, Noah Arthur  wrote:

> Hi everyone.
> 
> First off, I'm sorry if I've already posted this on here before... Anyway, I 
got point-blank views of this lone Calidris sandpiper at Leasburg Dam, Dona Ana 
Co., NM last year in late August: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/73989529 AT N02/sets/72157645536904795/ 

> 
> Most characteristics line up with Western, but the plumage is very pale, the 
bill suspiciously long, and -- strangest of all -- the wingtips extend 
noticeably past the tail tip and cross over each other, reminding me of Baird's 
Sandpiper. Also, it seemed odd that this bird was all by itself with no other 
sandpipers around for miles -- although there were whole flocks of Westerns 
just a few miles down river... 

> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Noah Arthur, Oakland, CA
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: NM fall sandpiper
From: Noah Arthur <semirelicta AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 21:59:59 -0700
Hi everyone.

First off, I'm sorry if I've already posted this on here before... Anyway,
I got point-blank views of this lone Calidris sandpiper at Leasburg Dam,
Dona Ana Co., NM last year in late August:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/73989529 AT N02/sets/72157645536904795/

Most characteristics line up with Western, but the plumage is very pale,
the bill suspiciously long, and -- strangest of all -- the wingtips extend
noticeably past the tail tip and cross over each other, reminding me of
Baird's Sandpiper. Also, it seemed odd that this bird was all by itself
with no other sandpipers around for miles -- although there were whole
flocks of Westerns just a few miles down river...

Thanks!

Noah Arthur, Oakland, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: RFI: Dark-eyed Junco identification
From: Bill Pranty <billpranty AT HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 16:45:52 -0400
Good afternoon,
 
On 30 June 2014, I was in a group of three birders who discovered a
Dark-eyed Junco at North Anclote Bar, a barrier island along the central
Florida Gulf coast off the Pasco County coastline. We saw the junco fly past
us and then land in a mangrove; it seems possible that we witnessed the
junco make landfall -- possibly following a flight across the Gulf of
Mexico. The junco was very heat-stressed and reluctant to fly. We were
reluctant to pursue it but we knew that we needed photos (see below).
 
Gail Deterra and I obtained some fairly good (Gail) to fair (me) images of
the junco. The temperature was around 92 degrees and the sunlight was
extremely bright. The images have been cropped and renamed but not otherwise 
edited. 

Unfortunately, neither Gail nor I obtained any clear images showing the frontal 
or 

side views of the junco.

 
The junco seems to be of the "Oregon" group, but I am aware that definitive
identification from "Cassiar," "Pink-sided," even some "Slate-colored"
juncos cannot always be made.
 
Our photos represent the first summer record of any junco in Florida, and
will also represent the first Florida record of an "Oregon" Junco if the ID
can be confirmed.
 
Images have been posted to 
 
https://drive.google.com/#folders/0B-jn8DL_4JmrQjVxNHp1NXByTEE
 
(My apologies in advance if some -- or all! -- of you cannot view the
images; I've never used Google Drive before).
 
 
All comments are welcome.
 
 
Thank you.
 
 
Best regards,
 
Bill Pranty
Bayonet Point, Florida
 		 	   		  
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged?
From: Chuck Carlson <chuckcmt AT NEMONT.NET>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:54:44 -0600
In “Gulls of North America, Europe and Asia” by Olsen and Larsson on page 
177, photo 204 shows a Western with a narrow white edge to P10. The text below 
says on P9, but it looks more like P10. This would seem to fit this gull. The 
photo was taken in San Diego. 


Chuck Carlson

From: Peter Pyle 
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 2:59 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU 
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged?

Hi Chuck and all -

Size/shape, bill size and color, back color, and wing pattern all seem to fit 
male Western Gulls that breed between central California and the Washington 
border, being a lighter shade than more-southern breeding birds (including 
"wymani"), but still considered Westerns over hybrids. However, I'm concerned 
about the pattern to the underside of p10. I'm not sure if there is light 
artifact on this feather, but it appears extensively white tipped with a thin 
dark band near the tip. If this is true than it does not fit either Western or 
Glaucous-winged Gull very well, although perhaps extremes of these species 
might show this pattern. It better fits Herring Gull, but I agree it seems on 
the dark side (back, eye, bill) for Herring. 


The Slater open-wing collection is a good resource for gull wing tip patterns 
in western North America: 

http://digitalcollections.pugetsound.edu/cdm/search/collection/slaterwing 
(enter the species name in the search bar)

Peter

At 12:19 PM 6/27/2014, Chuck Carlson wrote:

  Hello larophiles
   
 This gull was seen at Ft. Peck, MT on June 13 on the Missouri River at the Ft. 
Peck powerplants. It was soon noticed that the bill was large ad bulbous and 
bright yellow/orange with a red gonydial spot. the apparent size was larger 
than a California. The upper parts were had about the same shade of gray as a 
California Gull. The iris is not black like a California, nor is it yellow as a 
Herring. The photos were taken at a distance of about 150 m. with 700 mm lens, 
and there was some air turbulence. Therefore the photos are blurry. The gull 
was a one day stay, and the rest of the photos I got were even worse than this 
and none showed any different angles. 

   
 I have had two comments that suggest that it is indeed a Western Gull. A third 
thought it was more likely a Western X Glaucous-winged. There are no previous 
records of Westerns in Montana. 

   
  Any help on this would be appreciated.
   
  https://www.flickr.com/photos/prairie_shots/14334745449/
   
  Chuck Carlson
  Ft. Peck, MT
  Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged?
From: Alvaro Jaramillo <chucao AT COASTSIDE.NET>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:34:47 -0700
Sadly I think the bird is just not identifiable with certainty without an
open wing shot. Most of the reported Western Gulls (albeit that is in the
Great Lakes) are hybrid Great Black-backed x Herring. That is another
possibility you could throw into the mix here. 

 

Alvaro 

 

Alvaro Jaramillo

alvaro AT alvarosadventures.com

www.alvarosadventures.com

 

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Pyle
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 2:22 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged?

 

Come to think of it, the p10 pattern, back color, and all could fit a paler
Slaty-backed Gull. The bird in the dorsal-flight shot about half way down
this page seems similar:
http://www.birdingetc.com/2011/01/more-musings-on-slaty-backed-gull.html 

But then I would expect the eye color to be paler than how it was described.

Peter

At 01:59 PM 6/27/2014, Peter Pyle wrote:



Hi Chuck and all -

Size/shape, bill size and color, back color, and wing pattern all seem to
fit male Western Gulls that breed between central California and the
Washington border, being a lighter shade than more-southern breeding birds
(including "wymani"), but still considered Westerns over hybrids. However,
I'm concerned about the pattern to the underside of p10. I'm not sure if
there is light artifact on this feather, but it appears extensively white
tipped with a thin dark band near the tip. If this is true than it does not
fit either Western or Glaucous-winged Gull very well, although perhaps
extremes of these species might show this pattern. It better fits Herring
Gull, but I agree it seems on the dark side (back, eye, bill) for Herring. 

The Slater open-wing collection is a good resource for gull wing tip
patterns in western North America:
http://digitalcollections.pugetsound.edu/cdm/search/collection/slaterwing 
(enter the species name in the search bar)

Peter

At 12:19 PM 6/27/2014, Chuck Carlson wrote:



Hello larophiles
 
This gull was seen at Ft. Peck, MT on June 13 on the Missouri River at the
Ft. Peck powerplants. It was soon noticed that the bill was large ad bulbous
and bright yellow/orange with a red gonydial spot. the apparent size was
larger than a California. The upper parts were had about the same shade of
gray as a California Gull. The iris is not black like a California, nor is
it yellow as a Herring. The photos were taken at a distance of about 150 m.
with 700 mm lens, and there was some air turbulence. Therefore the photos
are blurry. The gull was a one day stay, and the rest of the photos I got
were even worse than this and none showed any different angles.
 
I have had two comments that suggest that it is indeed a Western Gull. A
third thought it was more likely a Western X Glaucous-winged. There are no
previous records of Westerns in Montana.
 
Any help on this would be appreciated.
 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/prairie_shots/14334745449/
 
Chuck Carlson
Ft. Peck, MT
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged?
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:21:59 -0700
Come to think of it, the p10 pattern, back color, and all could fit a 
paler Slaty-backed Gull. The bird in the dorsal-flight shot about 
half way down this page seems similar:
http://www.birdingetc.com/2011/01/more-musings-on-slaty-backed-gull.html

But then I would expect the eye color to be paler than how it was described.

Peter

At 01:59 PM 6/27/2014, Peter Pyle wrote:
>Hi Chuck and all -
>
>Size/shape, bill size and color, back color, and wing pattern all 
>seem to fit male Western Gulls that breed between central California 
>and the Washington border, being a lighter shade than more-southern 
>breeding birds (including "wymani"), but still considered Westerns 
>over hybrids. However, I'm concerned about the pattern to the 
>underside of p10. I'm not sure if there is light artifact on this 
>feather, but it appears extensively white tipped with a thin dark 
>band near the tip. If this is true than it does not fit either 
>Western or Glaucous-winged Gull very well, although perhaps extremes 
>of these species might show this pattern. It better fits Herring 
>Gull, but I agree it seems on the dark side (back, eye, bill) for Herring.
>
>The Slater open-wing collection is a good resource for gull wing tip 
>patterns in western North America:
>http://digitalcollections.pugetsound.edu/cdm/search/collection/slaterwing
>(enter the species name in the search bar)
>
>Peter
>
>At 12:19 PM 6/27/2014, Chuck Carlson wrote:
>>Hello larophiles
>>
>>This gull was seen at Ft. Peck, MT on June 13 on the Missouri River 
>>at the Ft. Peck powerplants. It was soon noticed that the bill was 
>>large ad bulbous and bright yellow/orange with a red gonydial spot. 
>>the apparent size was larger than a California. The upper parts 
>>were had about the same shade of gray as a California Gull. The 
>>iris is not black like a California, nor is it yellow as a Herring. 
>>The photos were taken at a distance of about 150 m. with 700 mm 
>>lens, and there was some air turbulence. Therefore the photos are 
>>blurry. The gull was a one day stay, and the rest of the photos I 
>>got were even worse than this and none showed any different angles.
>>
>>I have had two comments that suggest that it is indeed a Western 
>>Gull. A third thought it was more likely a Western X 
>>Glaucous-winged. There are no previous records of Westerns in Montana.
>>
>>Any help on this would be appreciated.
>>

>>https://www.flickr.com/photos/prairie_shots/14334745449/ 

>>
>>Chuck Carlson
>>Ft. Peck, MT
>>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged?
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:59:34 -0700
Hi Chuck and all -

Size/shape, bill size and color, back color, and wing pattern all 
seem to fit male Western Gulls that breed between central California 
and the Washington border, being a lighter shade than more-southern 
breeding birds (including "wymani"), but still considered Westerns 
over hybrids. However, I'm concerned about the pattern to the 
underside of p10. I'm not sure if there is light artifact on this 
feather, but it appears extensively white tipped with a thin dark 
band near the tip. If this is true than it does not fit either 
Western or Glaucous-winged Gull very well, although perhaps extremes 
of these species might show this pattern. It better fits Herring 
Gull, but I agree it seems on the dark side (back, eye, bill) for Herring.

The Slater open-wing collection is a good resource for gull wing tip 
patterns in western North America:
http://digitalcollections.pugetsound.edu/cdm/search/collection/slaterwing
(enter the species name in the search bar)

Peter

At 12:19 PM 6/27/2014, Chuck Carlson wrote:
>Hello larophiles
>
>This gull was seen at Ft. Peck, MT on June 13 on the Missouri River 
>at the Ft. Peck powerplants. It was soon noticed that the bill was 
>large ad bulbous and bright yellow/orange with a red gonydial spot. 
>the apparent size was larger than a California. The upper parts were 
>had about the same shade of gray as a California Gull. The iris is 
>not black like a California, nor is it yellow as a Herring. The 
>photos were taken at a distance of about 150 m. with 700 mm lens, 
>and there was some air turbulence. Therefore the photos are blurry. 
>The gull was a one day stay, and the rest of the photos I got were 
>even worse than this and none showed any different angles.
>
>I have had two comments that suggest that it is indeed a Western 
>Gull. A third thought it was more likely a Western X 
>Glaucous-winged. There are no previous records of Westerns in Montana.
>
>Any help on this would be appreciated.
>

>https://www.flickr.com/photos/prairie_shots/14334745449/ 

>
>Chuck Carlson
>Ft. Peck, MT
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Fw: Gull - Western or Western X Glaucous-winged?
From: Chuck Carlson <chuckcmt AT NEMONT.NET>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:19:15 -0600
Hello larophiles

This gull was seen at Ft. Peck, MT on June 13 on the Missouri River at the Ft. 
Peck powerplants. It was soon noticed that the bill was large ad bulbous and 
bright yellow/orange with a red gonydial spot. the apparent size was larger 
than a California. The upper parts were had about the same shade of gray as a 
California Gull. The iris is not black like a California, nor is it yellow as a 
Herring. The photos were taken at a distance of about 150 m. with 700 mm lens, 
and there was some air turbulence. Therefore the photos are blurry. The gull 
was a one day stay, and the rest of the photos I got were even worse than this 
and none showed any different angles. 


I have had two comments that suggest that it is indeed a Western Gull. A third 
thought it was more likely a Western X Glaucous-winged. There are no previous 
records of Westerns in Montana. 


Any help on this would be appreciated.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/prairie_shots/14334745449/

Chuck Carlson
Ft. Peck, MT
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Birds and UV Light
From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2 AT CORNELL.EDU>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:04:51 +0000
There have been a number of papers on this topic.  Start with
The ubiquity of avian ultraviolet plumage reflectance
Muir D. Eaton and Scott M. Lanyon
Proc. R. Soc. Lond. B (2003) 270, 1721–1726
DOI 10.1098/rspb.2003.2431


Best,

Kevin

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike O'Keeffe 

Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 3:04 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Birds and UV Light

Hi,

I hope there are birders out there with some insight into the following 
questions. 


Have any birders on this forum taken the plunge and modified or purchased 
specialist camera or video equipment to try and capture UV patterning in birds? 


Does anyone know if there has been any systematic investigation of UV 
patterning in the total avifauna of a region? 


In particular I am wondering if anyone has taken a UV camera and lamp into a 
large museum collection and viewed or photographed large quantities of skins in 
search for new and unexpected UV reflectance or absorbance plumage patterning? 


Lastly, has anyone tried to capture UV and/or full spectrum images of birds in 
the field as opposed to in a more controlled setting like a museum skin 
collection or of birds in captivity, and if so what were the results like? 


If anyone has any particular insights into these questions I would love to hear 
from you. 


For more thoughts and discussion on this please see 
http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/06/birds-and-uv-light.html 


Regards

Mike O’Keeffe
Ireland



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Birds and UV Light
From: "Mike O'Keeffe" <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:04:15 +0100
Hi,

 

I hope there are birders out there with some insight into the following 
questions. 


 

Have any birders on this forum taken the plunge and modified or purchased 
specialist camera or video equipment to try and capture UV patterning in birds? 


 

Does anyone know if there has been any systematic investigation of UV 
patterning in the total avifauna of a region? 


 

In particular I am wondering if anyone has taken a UV camera and lamp into a 
large museum collection and viewed or photographed large quantities of skins in 
search for new and unexpected UV reflectance or absorbance plumage patterning? 


 

Lastly, has anyone tried to capture UV and/or full spectrum images of birds in 
the field as opposed to in a more controlled setting like a museum skin 
collection or of birds in captivity, and if so what were the results like? 


 

If anyone has any particular insights into these questions I would love to hear 
from you. 


 

For more thoughts and discussion on this please see 
http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/06/birds-and-uv-light.html 


 

Regards

 

Mike O’Keeffe

Ireland

 

 

 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Mystery sparrow (or Emberiza bunting?) at Pt. Reyes
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 21:01:39 +0000
The prominent greater-covert wing-bar and lack of obvious yellow anywhere on 
the underparts would rule out the two asian buntings. Chestnut Bunting has much 
blanker lores than this bird as well. 


From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Noah Arthur 

Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:11 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Mystery sparrow (or Emberiza bunting?) at Pt. Reyes

Yesterday Albert Linkowski and I birded Pt. Reyes (Marin Co., CA), and near the 
Fish Docks we spotted an unusual bronzy-yellowish colored sparrow. The overall 
coloration and pattern strongly recalled a female Bobolink, with the brightest 
part of the bird being the nape. It's a very close match to several Emberiza 
buntings (the closest being Yellow-breasted and Chestnut-headed), but I don't 
know much about juvenile Savannah Sparrow variation so juvenile Savannah is a 
strong contender... Here are some photos: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/73989529 AT N02/sets/72157645095772406/ 


Any ideas, anyone?

Thanks!

Noah Arthur, Oakland, CA
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Mystery sparrow (or Emberiza bunting?) at Pt. Reyes
From: Noah Arthur <semirelicta AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:11:17 -0700
Yesterday Albert Linkowski and I birded Pt. Reyes (Marin Co., CA), and near
the Fish Docks we spotted an unusual bronzy-yellowish colored sparrow. The
overall coloration and pattern strongly recalled a female Bobolink, with
the brightest part of the bird being the nape. It's a very close match to
several Emberiza buntings (the closest being Yellow-breasted and
Chestnut-headed), but I don't know much about juvenile Savannah Sparrow
variation so juvenile Savannah is a strong contender... Here are some
photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/73989529 AT N02/sets/72157645095772406/

Any ideas, anyone?

Thanks!

Noah Arthur, Oakland, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Fwd: [BIRDWG01] Large White-headed Gull ID
From: Tony leukering <greatgrayowl AT AOL.COM>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:56:14 -0400
Oops.

Tony Leukering
currently Caro, MI
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/
http://www.aba.org/photoquiz/

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Tony leukering 
> Date: June 11, 2014 at 10:25:28 AM EDT
> To: Kirk Zufelt 
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Large White-headed Gull ID
> 
> Amar et al.:
> 
> I'll write more when I get back to my computer, but my memory holds an 
impression of Ringer-like pattern to the underparts (dark chevrons on sides of 
mostly-white underparts). The pp were quite pointed (if I recall correctly), 
thus it's a 1st-cyc bird (as noted by Amar). Any yellow tones in the legs could 
be supplied by a Ringer parent. Finally, the plumage progression is more like 
that of a 3-year gull than a 4-year gull. Of course, I'm just working from a 
memory of Amar's pix, a memory that is occasionally not to be trusted. 

> 
> Tony
> 
> Tony Leukering
> currently Caro, MI
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/
> http://www.aba.org/photoquiz/
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 8:23 PM, Kirk Zufelt  wrote:
>> 
>> Amar- I suspect this is a second cycle American Herring x Lesser 
Black-backed. It has an in between 

>> mantle shade, is smallish and rakish compared to the Herrings and has a 
Herring Gull-like primary 

>> pattern. Couldn't be sure it isn't a second cycle Vega but the eye is 
lightening already which favours 

>> the Herrring x LBB and of course the odds are 100: 1 for the hybrid combo. 
Kirk 

>> 
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: odd gull
From: John Sterling <jsterling AT WAVECABLE.COM>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 23:30:06 -0700
Alvaro and Todd Easterla set me straight...not a Cal Gull

John Sterling
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

26 Palm Ave
Woodland, CA 95695
530 908-3836
jsterling AT wavecable.com
www.sterlingbirds.com


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Large White-headed Gull ID
From: John Sterling <jsterling AT WAVECABLE.COM>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:33:48 -0700
I believe that I see green on the upper part of the leg and pink below, so I 
think this is a California Gull as Alan Wormington suggests. I'll take a hard 
look later tonight and talk it over with Todd Easterla before I comment 
further. 


John Sterling
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

26 Palm Ave
Woodland, CA 95695
530 908-3836
jsterling AT wavecable.com
www.sterlingbirds.com

On Jun 10, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Tony Leukering  wrote:

> Amar:
> 
> Quit it! In the future, when you find something like this, turn around and 
walk away. 

> 
> My first-glance thoughts included Ring-billed (Ringer) x Lesser Black-backed 
(LessBack), but the thing seems on the small side for Ringer. The bill pattern 
is perfect for Smithsonian Gull, but it's certainly not that. 

> 
> I'm not sure how you get darker mantle color into something that looks at 
least fairly Ringer-like, unless you introduce either Mew/Common, Cal, or 
LessBack into its ancestry. But, it seems to me that only the last of these 
could help explain the bill pattern -- except that there are darned few 
one-year-old LessBacks with so little dark in the bill. 

> 
> I'd be very interested in your thoughts.
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> Tony Leukering
> currently Caro, MI
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/
> http://aba.org/photoquiz/
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amar Ayyash 
> To: BIRDWG01 
> Sent: Tue, Jun 10, 2014 6:27 pm
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Large White-headed Gull ID
> 
> Hi, all. I photographed an interesting 1st summer gull on the Wisconsin, Lake 
Michigan, lakefront on Sunday, 08 June 2014. I have a few ideas of what it may 
be, but would appreciate any comments or insights on its identification. 

> 
> You'll find a set of photos below. The only aspect of the bird not accurately 
represented in the images is the leg color. The leg color in photo #4 is, 
however, true to life. 

> 
> http://goo.gl/5KlBNb
> 
> Thanks,
> Amar Ayyash
> Frankfort IL, USA
> 
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Large White-headed Gull ID
From: Kevin McLaughlin <kam50 AT SHAW.CA>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:00:06 -0400
Hi Amar.

 

The best I can do with this thing is a very small Lesser Black-backed Gull in 
second prebasic molt. I am troubled somewhat by the pale look to the large 
lower scapulars, which I am presuming to be retained first basic feathers. 
Their pattern is good however and the thin “anchor shaped” effect works. I 
am assuming that the white bases to these feathers were gray before wear and 
fading set in. The general appearance of the tail/uppertail and rump seems OK 
for LBBG, although four juvenal rectrices have been replaced by fresh white 
feathers, possibly during second prealternate molt. This seems to be an 
uncommon characteristic for a year old. Interesting to see that the white R6 on 
the left side also has the proper structure for second cycle and beyond, while 
the same feather on the right, which is juvenal, has the narrow rounded shape 
befitting that age class. As you suggest, leg colour in photo #4 is accurate 
(yellowish) and points to LBBG as does the thin structure of the legs which I 
don’t see a small American Herring Gull possessing. 


 

Kevin McLaughlin

Hamilton, Ontario.

 

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Amar Ayyash 

Sent: June-10-14 6:23 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Large White-headed Gull ID

 

Hi, all. I photographed an interesting 1st summer gull on the Wisconsin, Lake 
Michigan, lakefront on Sunday, 08 June 2014. I have a few ideas of what it may 
be, but would appreciate any comments or insights on its identification. 


 

You'll find a set of photos below. The only aspect of the bird not accurately 
represented in the images is the leg color. The leg color in photo #4 is, 
however, true to life. 


 

http://goo.gl/5KlBNb

Thanks,

Amar Ayyash

Frankfort IL, USA

 

 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Large White-headed Gull ID
From: Kirk Zufelt <zufelt_k AT SHAW.CA>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:14:54 -0400
Amar- I suspect this is a second cycle American Herring x Lesser Black-backed. 
It has an in between mantle shade, is smallish and rakish compared to the 
Herrings and has a Herring Gull-like primary pattern. Couldn't be sure it isn't 
a second cycle Vega but the eye is lightening already which favours the 
Herrring x LBB and of course the odds are 100: 1 for the hybrid combo. Kirk 

On 2014-06-10, at 6:52 PM, Amar Attach wrote:

> I think the bill pattern rules out the possibility of this being a 1 year old 
CAGU. 

> 
> Regards,
> Amar Ayyash
> 
> Amar Ayyash
> www.anythinglarus.com
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2014, at 5:45 PM, "Alan Wormington"  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> A California Gull born last year (2013) should be the answer.
>> 
>> Alan Wormington
>> Leamington, Ontario
>> 
>> 
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Large White-headed Gull ID
From: Kirk Zufelt <zufelt_k AT SHAW.CA>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:23:03 -0500
Amar- I suspect this is a second cycle American Herring x Lesser Black-backed. 
It has an in between 

mantle shade, is smallish and rakish compared to the Herrings and has a Herring 
Gull-like primary 

pattern. Couldn't be sure it isn't a second cycle Vega but the eye is 
lightening already which favours 

the Herrring x LBB and of course the odds are 100: 1 for the hybrid combo. Kirk

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Large White-headed Gull ID
From: Tony Leukering <greatgrayowl AT AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:55:52 -0400
Amar:

Quit it! In the future, when you find something like this, turn around and walk 
away. 


My first-glance thoughts included Ring-billed (Ringer) x Lesser Black-backed 
(LessBack), but the thing seems on the small side for Ringer. The bill pattern 
is perfect for Smithsonian Gull, but it's certainly not that. 


I'm not sure how you get darker mantle color into something that looks at least 
fairly Ringer-like, unless you introduce either Mew/Common, Cal, or LessBack 
into its ancestry. But, it seems to me that only the last of these could help 
explain the bill pattern -- except that there are darned few one-year-old 
LessBacks with so little dark in the bill. 


I'd be very interested in your thoughts.

Tony

 

 


Tony Leukering
currently Caro, MI

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/

http://aba.org/photoquiz/

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Amar Ayyash 
To: BIRDWG01 
Sent: Tue, Jun 10, 2014 6:27 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Large White-headed Gull ID



Hi, all. I photographed an interesting 1st summer gull on the Wisconsin, Lake 
Michigan, lakefront on Sunday, 08 June 2014. I have a few ideas of what it may 
be, but would appreciate any comments or insights on its identification. 



You'll find a set of photos below. The only aspect of the bird not accurately 
represented in the images is the leg color. The leg color in photo #4 is, 
however, true to life. 



http://goo.gl/5KlBNb

Thanks,
Amar Ayyash
Frankfort IL, USA




Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Fw: Re: [BIRDWG01] Large White-headed Gull ID
From: Alan Wormington <wormington AT JUNO.COM>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:58:47 +0000
You're probably correct, I forgot to look at the bill!

Alan




---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Amar Attach 
To: Alan Wormington 
Cc: "BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU" 
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Large White-headed Gull ID
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 17:52:32 -0500

I think the bill pattern rules out the possibility of this being a 1 year old 
CAGU. 


Regards,
Amar Ayyash

Amar Ayyash
www.anythinglarus.com

> On Jun 10, 2014, at 5:45 PM, "Alan Wormington"  wrote:
> 
> 
> A California Gull born last year (2013) should be the answer.
> 
> Alan Wormington
> Leamington, Ontario
> 
>

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html