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Updated on Friday, October 31 at 01:06 PM EST
The most recently received Mail is at the top.


Lesser Prairie-Chicken,©BirdQuest

31 Oct Re: Timing of molt in Arctic (and Pacific) Loon [Peter Pyle ]
31 Oct Timing of molt in Arctic (and Pacific) Loon [Paul Hurtado ]
31 Oct Re: possible hybrid teal [Tony leukering ]
30 Oct Re: possible hybrid teal [David Bell ]
30 Oct Re: possible hybrid teal [David Irons ]
30 Oct Re: possible hybrid teal ["Lethaby, Nick" ]
30 Oct Re: possible hybrid teal [Lee G R Evans ]
30 Oct Re: possible hybrid teal [Tony leukering ]
30 Oct Re: possible hybrid teal [David Irons ]
30 Oct possible hybrid teal [David Bell ]
25 Oct Eurasian vs. African Collared-Dove in the ABA Area [Ted Floyd ]
14 Oct Re: Ventura Warbler [Marcelo Brongo ]
14 Oct Ventura Warbler [Tristan McKee ]
14 Oct Re: Fwd: Geothlypis hybridization and variation ["Lethaby, Nick" ]
14 Oct Re: Fwd: Geothlypis hybridization and variation [David Sibley ]
14 Oct Fwd: Geothlypis hybridization and variation [Marcelo Brongo ]
14 Oct Easier access to Geothlypis photos [Tristan McKee ]
13 Oct Geothlypis hybridization and variation [Tristan McKee ]
12 Oct SY Iceland Gull(?) spent over 2 months in Texas [Mark B Bartosik ]
11 Oct Neal G. Smith - Obituary [Jean Iron ]
9 Oct Re: Scarlet/Summer Tanager on Island of Barra - NW Scotland [Allen Chartier ]
9 Oct Re: Scarlet/Summer Tanager on Island of Barra - NW Scotland [Tony Leukering ]
9 Oct Scarlet/Summer Tanager on Island of Barra - NW Scotland [Lee G R Evans ]
7 Oct Opinions sought on vagrant TANAGER in NW Scotland (UK) [Lee G R Evans ]
7 Oct Re: Semipalmated or Western Sandpiper [David Wheeler ]
6 Oct Semipalmated or Western Sandpiper [David Wheeler ]
6 Oct Re: Semipalmated or Western Sandpiper [David Wheeler ]
3 Oct Video and Birds ["Mike O'Keeffe" ]
16 Sep tern from off the Oregon coast [Jeff Gilligan ]
15 Sep a pelagic tern from Oregon [Jeff Gilligan ]
9 Sep Re: Olive sided Flycatcher? [William Leigh ]
4 Sep Sorry for incomplete emails re LBBG vs. GBBG [James Barton ]
29 Aug Paul R Wood/UK/TLS/PwC is out of the office. [Paul Wood ]
28 Aug Re: SY graellsii vs. taimyrensis [Peter Adriaens ]
28 Aug Okay, SY Lesser vs. Great Black-backed Gull [Suzanne Sullivan ]
28 Aug Okay, SY Lesser vs. Great Black-backed Gull [Tristan McKee ]
27 Aug SY graellsii vs. taimyrensis [Tristan McKee ]
27 Aug Blue-winged Teal hybridisation in the USA [Lee G R Evans ]
20 Aug Interesting juv. cowbird [Ian McLaren ]
19 Aug Re: Dowitcher ID [Jason Hoeksema ]
18 Aug Re: Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color []
17 Aug Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color ["Glenn d'Entremont" ]
16 Aug Dowitcher ID [Jed Hertz ]
16 Aug Paul R Wood/UK/TLS/PwC is out of the office. [Paul Wood ]
15 Aug Got it! [Chris Hill ]
15 Aug Re: AOU Checklist supplement [John Sterling ]
15 Aug Steve Howell contact [Chris Hill ]
12 Aug Status of parrots in S TX? [Noah Arthur ]
7 Aug Re: UV Bird Photography ["Mike O'Keeffe" ]
1 Aug Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler [Reid Martin ]
31 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler [Phil Davis ]
31 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler ["Lethaby, Nick" ]
30 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler [Reid Martin ]
30 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement [Peter Pyle ]
30 Jul Re: AOU Checklist supplement [Reid Martin ]
30 Jul AOU Checklist supplement [Ian Paulsen ]
30 Jul Flicker [Andy Dettling ]
29 Jul Re: Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern? [Tony Leukering ]
29 Jul Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern? [David Wheeler ]
29 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid [julian hough ]
28 Jul Florida junco followup [Bill Pranty ]
28 Jul Asian Raptor ID articles [Robert DeCandido PhD ]
28 Jul Re: Allen's vs Rufous Hummingbird question [Steve Hampton ]
28 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid [Jerry Jourdan ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Jocelyn Hudon ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Peter Pyle ]
28 Jul Re: UV Bird Photography ["Mike O'Keeffe" ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Thomas Wetmore ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? ["Kevin J. McGowan" ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [David Sibley ]
28 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid []
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [David Wheeler ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Richard Klim ]
28 Jul Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade? [Jocelyn Hudon ]
28 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid [julian hough ]
28 Jul Re: Strange (?) calidrid ["Kevin J. McGowan" ]

Subject: Re: Timing of molt in Arctic (and Pacific) Loon
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 10:36:39 -0700
Hi Paul and all -

Yes, this is unusual. Note also that it's in fresh alternate plumage. 
Had it simply skipped molting this past summer the plumage would look 
more worn than this. So this leads me to believe that it underwent 
the normal complete prebasic body molt in Aug-Sep but that the 
hormone cycle that directs plumage coloration was completely off, 
signalling alternate feather coloration as opposed to basic. The head 
plumage seems a bit duller than normal for fresh alternate plumage, 
which may be related to the off-cycle plumage deposition or may just 
be the low lighting in the photos. Pacific and Arctic loons are 
similar in their molts and plumages. I believe this bird is at least 
2+ years old by the plumage and eye color.

Full alternate-like coloration in basic plumage happens only 
occasionally in birds. I've seen evidence for it in gulls and 
shorebirds. I believe there was a dowitcher like this fairly recently 
on this list. These birds seem to result from a complete 
switch-around in plumage-hormone interactions. More common are cases 
where molts and plumage-deposition cycles are slightly off, resulting 
in partially alternate-like coloration in basic plumage, or 
female-like plumage in males (e.g., in Summer Tanager). More info on 
these sorts of interactions in Common Murre is here:
https://www.westernfieldornithologists.org/docs/abstracts/44-3FP.pdf

Peter

At 08:33 AM 10/31/2014, Paul Hurtado wrote:
>Last week, Ohio was graced with this bird, which appears to be an alternate
>plumage ARCTIC LOON (although I'd love to hear any insights that call that
>ID into question):
>
>http://tinyurl.com/lz4agsp
>http://tinyurl.com/nv57hzl
>
>Those images are from this facebook post by Diane Perkins on 23 Oct 2014,
>in the Birding Ohio group (the post itself is only visible if you join the
>group.) and unfortunately there aren't many other photos of the bird.
>
>https://www.facebook.com/groups/BirdingOhio/permalink/708956875861479/
>
>I didn't get to see the bird, but multiple observers report that it showed
>no vent strap.
>
>I'm curious what might explain the state of molt?  It seems late for a bird
>to be in what looks like nearly full alternate plumage (or is it just
>towards the tail end of normal?) and I'm curious if Arctic and Pacific are
>known to differ much in their timing of molt.
>
>Thanks,
>Paul Hurtado
>Columbus, OH
>
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Timing of molt in Arctic (and Pacific) Loon
From: Paul Hurtado <paul.j.hurtado AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:33:55 -0400
Last week, Ohio was graced with this bird, which appears to be an alternate
plumage ARCTIC LOON (although I'd love to hear any insights that call that
ID into question):

http://tinyurl.com/lz4agsp
http://tinyurl.com/nv57hzl

Those images are from this facebook post by Diane Perkins on 23 Oct 2014,
in the Birding Ohio group (the post itself is only visible if you join the
group.) and unfortunately there aren't many other photos of the bird.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BirdingOhio/permalink/708956875861479/

I didn't get to see the bird, but multiple observers report that it showed
no vent strap.

I'm curious what might explain the state of molt?  It seems late for a bird
to be in what looks like nearly full alternate plumage (or is it just
towards the tail end of normal?) and I'm curious if Arctic and Pacific are
known to differ much in their timing of molt.

Thanks,
Paul Hurtado
Columbus, OH

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: possible hybrid teal
From: Tony leukering <greatgrayowl AT AOL.COM>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:49:36 -0400
Lee:

I, too, had some concern about the brightness of the legs, but I can find no 
other suggestion of infusion of shoveler genes. 


Tony Leukering
currently Mayville, MI
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/
http://www.aba.org/photoquiz/

> On Oct 30, 2014, at 1:41 PM, LGREUK400 AT aol.com wrote:
> 
> Tony/all
>  
> Of the 25 or so 'young' Blue-winged Teals I have seen in the UK in autumn, 
they have had very dull leg colour - generally greyish to very pale yellow. The 
brighter leg colour (eg, orange as seen in this pic) have either related to 
adult birds or hybrid Shovelers (orange being the prevalent colour of Shoveler 
legs & feet and yellow of Blue-winged Teal). It concerns me now that juvenile 
Blue-winged Teal could show such rich leg colour 

>  
> I find this latest Minnesota bird uncannily similar to birds we have been 
getting over here in England lately and although it does seem to 'fit the bill' 
as regards Blue-winged Teal, I would not be convinced that some Northern 
Shoveler genes are not involved 

>  
> Very best wishes
>  
> Lee Evans
>  
>  

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: possible hybrid teal
From: David Bell <d AT VIDBELL.COM>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 20:31:56 -0700
David, Lee, Tony, Nick et. al. thank you very much for your helpful comments on 
this bird. 


Another helpful comment came on Flickr: Cathy commented that the photo may be 
underexposed making the bird appear darker than it would in life. 


Thank you,
Dave Bell


>>> 
>>> The following photo was sent to BirdsEye last week and I thought it might 
be interesting to the group 

>>> https://flic.kr/p/pzSrp3 
>>> 
>>> This photo was taken in late September at the Minnesota River Valley 
National Wildlife Refuge by Gerald R. Hoekstra. In addition to what's visible 
in the photo, Gerald also noted that it was distinctly smaller than nearby 
Mallards. He identified it was a teal in the field. 

>>> 
>>> It seems to fit Blue-winged Teal best: all dark bill, green inner speculum, 
large bill, etc. However there are characters that seem odd to me: the overall 
coloration too dark, larger more spatulate bill (?), lack of strong eyeline and 
pale patch near the base of the bill. 

>>> 
>>> Could this be a hybrid Shoveler x Blue-winged Teal, or is it within the 
range of variation for BW Teal? 

>>> 
>>> Any thoughts?
>>> 
>>> David A Bell
>>> www.birdseyebirding.com
>>> Pasadena, CA
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>> 
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: possible hybrid teal
From: David Irons <llsdirons AT MSN.COM>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 10:58:21 -0700
Nick, 

The head seems a bit too grayish for a young Cinnamon Teal and young Cinnamons 
are usually pale around the eye creating a diffuse eye ring. 


Dave Irons

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 30, 2014, at 10:49 AM, "Lethaby, Nick"  wrote:

> How is Cinnamon Teal eliminated here?
> 
> I agree there doesn't seem to be a strong reason to consider a hybrid 
although the bright orange legs are more of a Shoveler trait. 

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Irons 

> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:47 AM
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] possible hybrid teal
> 
> Greetings All,
> 
> The small rounded mantle and scapular feathers and their lack of broad pale 
edges indicate to me that this is a hatch-year bird. In my experience, young 
Blue-winged Teal have weaker face patterns than adults and less obvious pale at 
the base of this bill. The bill size and spatulation (is that a word?) looks 
within the range of Blue-winged teal to me. I would expect a hybrid Blue-winged 
Teal X N. Shoveler to show some orange on the bill, which this bird doesn't. 
While maybe a little odd looking, I would call this a hatch-year Blue-winged 
Teal. 

> 
> Dave Irons
> Portland, OR 
> 
>> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 06:30:18 -0700
>> From: d AT VIDBELL.COM
>> Subject: [BIRDWG01] possible hybrid teal
>> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>> 
>> The following photo was sent to BirdsEye last week and I thought it might be 
interesting to the group 

>> https://flic.kr/p/pzSrp3 
>> 
>> This photo was taken in late September at the Minnesota River Valley 
National Wildlife Refuge by Gerald R. Hoekstra. In addition to what's visible 
in the photo, Gerald also noted that it was distinctly smaller than nearby 
Mallards. He identified it was a teal in the field. 

>> 
>> It seems to fit Blue-winged Teal best: all dark bill, green inner speculum, 
large bill, etc. However there are characters that seem odd to me: the overall 
coloration too dark, larger more spatulate bill (?), lack of strong eyeline and 
pale patch near the base of the bill. 

>> 
>> Could this be a hybrid Shoveler x Blue-winged Teal, or is it within the 
range of variation for BW Teal? 

>> 
>> Any thoughts?
>> 
>> David A Bell
>> www.birdseyebirding.com
>> Pasadena, CA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>                         
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: possible hybrid teal
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:49:19 +0000
How is Cinnamon Teal eliminated here?

I agree there doesn't seem to be a strong reason to consider a hybrid although 
the bright orange legs are more of a Shoveler trait. 


-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Irons 

Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:47 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] possible hybrid teal

Greetings All,

The small rounded mantle and scapular feathers and their lack of broad pale 
edges indicate to me that this is a hatch-year bird. In my experience, young 
Blue-winged Teal have weaker face patterns than adults and less obvious pale at 
the base of this bill. The bill size and spatulation (is that a word?) looks 
within the range of Blue-winged teal to me. I would expect a hybrid Blue-winged 
Teal X N. Shoveler to show some orange on the bill, which this bird doesn't. 
While maybe a little odd looking, I would call this a hatch-year Blue-winged 
Teal. 


Dave Irons
Portland, OR 

> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 06:30:18 -0700
> From: d AT VIDBELL.COM
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] possible hybrid teal
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> 
> The following photo was sent to BirdsEye last week and I thought it might be 
interesting to the group 

> https://flic.kr/p/pzSrp3 
> 
> This photo was taken in late September at the Minnesota River Valley National 
Wildlife Refuge by Gerald R. Hoekstra. In addition to what's visible in the 
photo, Gerald also noted that it was distinctly smaller than nearby Mallards. 
He identified it was a teal in the field. 

> 
> It seems to fit Blue-winged Teal best: all dark bill, green inner speculum, 
large bill, etc. However there are characters that seem odd to me: the overall 
coloration too dark, larger more spatulate bill (?), lack of strong eyeline and 
pale patch near the base of the bill. 

> 
> Could this be a hybrid Shoveler x Blue-winged Teal, or is it within the range 
of variation for BW Teal? 

> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> David A Bell
> www.birdseyebirding.com
> Pasadena, CA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
 		 	   		  
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: possible hybrid teal
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:41:10 -0400
Tony/all
 
Of the 25 or so 'young' Blue-winged Teals I have seen in the UK in autumn,  
they have had very dull leg colour - generally greyish to very pale yellow. 
The  brighter leg colour (eg, orange as seen in this pic) have either 
related to adult birds or hybrid Shovelers (orange being the prevalent colour 
of 

Shoveler  legs & feet and yellow of Blue-winged Teal). It concerns me now 
that  juvenile Blue-winged Teal could show such rich leg colour
 
I find this latest Minnesota bird uncannily similar to birds we have been  
getting over here in England lately and although it does seem to 'fit the 
bill'  as regards Blue-winged Teal, I would not be convinced that some 
Northern  Shoveler genes are not involved
 
Very best wishes
 
Lee Evans
 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
 
Subject: Re: possible hybrid teal
From: Tony leukering <greatgrayowl AT AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:26:20 -0400
All:

I agree with Mr. Irons in Blue-winged Teal. I would expect for Northern 
Shoveler genes to put more/some white in the tail and more/some pale internal 
markings on the side/flank feathers (see 
http://cfobirds.org/downloads/In%20the%20Scope/In%20the%20Scope%20January%202013.pdf). 


The brightness of the legs on a young Blue-winged also should seal the deal for 
the sex as male. 


Tony

Tony Leukering
currently Mayville, MI
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/
http://www.aba.org/photoquiz/

> On Oct 30, 2014, at 12:47 PM, David Irons  wrote:
> 
> Greetings All,
> 
> The small rounded mantle and scapular feathers and their lack of broad pale 
edges indicate to me that this is a hatch-year bird. In my experience, young 
Blue-winged Teal have weaker face patterns than adults and less obvious pale at 
the base of this bill. The bill size and spatulation (is that a word?) looks 
within the range of Blue-winged teal to me. I would expect a hybrid Blue-winged 
Teal X N. Shoveler to show some orange on the bill, which this bird doesn't. 
While maybe a little odd looking, I would call this a hatch-year Blue-winged 
Teal. 

> 
> Dave Irons
> Portland, OR 
> 
>> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 06:30:18 -0700
>> From: d AT VIDBELL.COM
>> Subject: [BIRDWG01] possible hybrid teal
>> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>> 
>> The following photo was sent to BirdsEye last week and I thought it might be 
interesting to the group 

>> https://flic.kr/p/pzSrp3 
>> 
>> This photo was taken in late September at the Minnesota River Valley 
National Wildlife Refuge by Gerald R. Hoekstra. In addition to what’s visible 
in the photo, Gerald also noted that it was distinctly smaller than nearby 
Mallards. He identified it was a teal in the field. 

>> 
>> It seems to fit Blue-winged Teal best: all dark bill, green inner speculum, 
large bill, etc. However there are characters that seem odd to me: the overall 
coloration too dark, larger more spatulate bill (?), lack of strong eyeline and 
pale patch near the base of the bill. 

>> 
>> Could this be a hybrid Shoveler x Blue-winged Teal, or is it within the 
range of variation for BW Teal? 

>> 
>> Any thoughts?
>> 
>> David A Bell
>> www.birdseyebirding.com
>> Pasadena, CA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>                         
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: possible hybrid teal
From: David Irons <llsdirons AT MSN.COM>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:47:08 +0000
Greetings All,

The small rounded mantle and scapular feathers and their lack of broad pale 
edges indicate to me that this is a hatch-year bird. In my experience, young 
Blue-winged Teal have weaker face patterns than adults and less obvious pale at 
the base of this bill. The bill size and spatulation (is that a word?) looks 
within the range of Blue-winged teal to me. I would expect a hybrid Blue-winged 
Teal X N. Shoveler to show some orange on the bill, which this bird doesn't. 
While maybe a little odd looking, I would call this a hatch-year Blue-winged 
Teal. 


Dave Irons
Portland, OR 

> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 06:30:18 -0700
> From: d AT VIDBELL.COM
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] possible hybrid teal
> To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
> 
> The following photo was sent to BirdsEye last week and I thought it might be 
interesting to the group 

> https://flic.kr/p/pzSrp3 
> 
> This photo was taken in late September at the Minnesota River Valley National 
Wildlife Refuge by Gerald R. Hoekstra. In addition to whats visible in the 
photo, Gerald also noted that it was distinctly smaller than nearby Mallards. 
He identified it was a teal in the field. 

> 
> It seems to fit Blue-winged Teal best: all dark bill, green inner speculum, 
large bill, etc. However there are characters that seem odd to me: the overall 
coloration too dark, larger more spatulate bill (?), lack of strong eyeline and 
pale patch near the base of the bill. 

> 
> Could this be a hybrid Shoveler x Blue-winged Teal, or is it within the range 
of variation for BW Teal? 

> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> David A Bell
> www.birdseyebirding.com
> Pasadena, CA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
 		 	   		  
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: possible hybrid teal
From: David Bell <d AT VIDBELL.COM>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 06:30:18 -0700
The following photo was sent to BirdsEye last week and I thought it might be 
interesting to the group 

https://flic.kr/p/pzSrp3 

This photo was taken in late September at the Minnesota River Valley National 
Wildlife Refuge by Gerald R. Hoekstra. In addition to whats visible in the 
photo, Gerald also noted that it was distinctly smaller than nearby Mallards. 
He identified it was a teal in the field. 


It seems to fit Blue-winged Teal best: all dark bill, green inner speculum, 
large bill, etc. However there are characters that seem odd to me: the overall 
coloration too dark, larger more spatulate bill (?), lack of strong eyeline and 
pale patch near the base of the bill. 


Could this be a hybrid Shoveler x Blue-winged Teal, or is it within the range 
of variation for BW Teal? 


Any thoughts?

David A Bell
www.birdseyebirding.com
Pasadena, CA





Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Eurasian vs. African Collared-Dove in the ABA Area
From: Ted Floyd <tedfloyd57 AT HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 14:13:13 -0700
Hi, everybody.
I put together a little tutorial on collared-dove ID. I didn't appreciate until 
recently the challenge for ABA Area birders beyond the southern borderlands. 
Anyhow, here ya go: 

http://tinyurl.com/AfCD-tutorial

Ted FloydLafayette, Boulder County, Colorado, USA 		 	   		  
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Ventura Warbler
From: Marcelo Brongo <marcelobrongo AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:06:51 +0200
Hi Tristan,
The open wing photo is actually showing a long primaries projection so I cannot 
understand your point about short primary projection. The quite longer 4-5 
external primaries in relation with secondaries will show, when folded, a long 
primary projection. It's a point with what I get some experience with my 
birdbanding activities. 

In addition, David Sibley raised two criticals points with the pale-edge great 
coverts and yellow tail and have made me change my mind. As far as I can see 
with these photos, Yellow Warbler seems the better option and without any good 
quality photos I cannot go further in the delicate field of hybrid. 


Best regards
Marcelo Brongo

> On 14 oct. 2014, at 18:36, Tristan McKee  wrote:
> 
> I really appreciate the responses so far, namely, supporting Connecticut, 
Orange-crowned x Yellow, Yellow x Mourning or x MacGillivray's, and Yellow. 
There was a request for more info on the bird's behavior. Note that birds act 
odd in this tamarisk row because of traffic along the immediately adjacent 
road. 

> 
> This bird hops around hyperactively high in the tamarisks with a cocked tail, 
occasionally taking a long break deep in a palm across the road, and we saw it 
fly into a field of avocado shrubs to roost. 

> 
> I believe the yellow in the tail and missing/growing rectrices give the false 
impression that this bird's undertail coverts extend well out on the tail. 
Also, the call is radically different from any Connecticut recording I have 
heard, the bird is too slender and long-tailed, and, again, the lack of primary 
projection doesn't fit Connecticut. I have also been told that the leg 
thickness and toe structure are wrong. 

> 
> To me, a Yellow with eucalyptus on its face is more difficult to eliminate, 
although the long, cocked tail, lack of primary projection, and call note are 
strikingly different from any Yellow I have seen. 

> 
> The suggestion of Yellow x Orange-crowned would explain most things (except 
the call and primary projection), especially considering some apparent blurry 
streaks on the breast. 

> 
> Thanks much,
> Tristan McKee
> Arcata, CA
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Ventura Warbler
From: Tristan McKee <atmckee AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:36:06 -0700
I really appreciate the responses so far, namely, supporting Connecticut, 
Orange-crowned x Yellow, Yellow x Mourning or x MacGillivray's, and Yellow. 
There was a request for more info on the bird's behavior. Note that birds act 
odd in this tamarisk row because of traffic along the immediately adjacent 
road. 


This bird hops around hyperactively high in the tamarisks with a cocked tail, 
occasionally taking a long break deep in a palm across the road, and we saw it 
fly into a field of avocado shrubs to roost. 


I believe the yellow in the tail and missing/growing rectrices give the false 
impression that this bird's undertail coverts extend well out on the tail. 
Also, the call is radically different from any Connecticut recording I have 
heard, the bird is too slender and long-tailed, and, again, the lack of primary 
projection doesn't fit Connecticut. I have also been told that the leg 
thickness and toe structure are wrong. 


To me, a Yellow with eucalyptus on its face is more difficult to eliminate, 
although the long, cocked tail, lack of primary projection, and call note are 
strikingly different from any Yellow I have seen. 


The suggestion of Yellow x Orange-crowned would explain most things (except the 
call and primary projection), especially considering some apparent blurry 
streaks on the breast. 


Thanks much,
Tristan McKee
Arcata, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Fwd: Geothlypis hybridization and variation
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:01:41 +0000
The dark lores in some pics are wrong for Yellow.

-----Original Message-----
From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Sibley 

Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 8:17 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Fwd: Geothlypis hybridization and variation

An interesting and suggestive bird, but I don't see this as a Connecticut 
Warbler or a hybrid. It looks like a good match for Yellow Warbler, especially 
the pale-edged greater coverts visible in the side view, and the tail pattern 
in the spread tail photo, which seems to show a clear pattern of pale yellow 
inner webs with darker outer webs and tips. Both coverts and tail pattern are 
wrong for any Oporornis/Geothlypis, and right for Yellow Warbler. Why not a 
very dusky-olive Yellow Warbler with an abnormal voice? 


There may be other details that point away from Yellow Warbler, but for now I 
don't see any reason to go beyond that species. 


David Sibley
Concord, MA

On Oct 14, 2014, at 6:16 AM, Marcelo Brongo  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I cannot find anything wrong calling this bird a Connecticut Warbler. 
> First fall individuals can have yellowish throat and overvall drab 
> coloration ( 
> http://www.lilibirds.com/gallery2/d/1631-3/connecticut+warbler+1.jpg 
> ). If sometimes colors can be hard to assess due to picture quality , 
> we can rely on structure with better confidence. The flying pictures 
> and open wing pictures are usefull. Geothlypis' species show very long 
> tail extension beyond the undertail coverts 
> (http://tinyurl.com/kjuwoja) and your bird doesn't. It's actually very 
> short as a normal Connecticut W.). The wing morphology also match much 
> better with Connecticut long pointed one. (
> http://tinyurl.com/kkn7mq4)
> 
> Best regards
> Marcelo Brongo
> 
> Wing picture was took from Slater Museum of Natural History (Wing & 
> Tail Image Collection):
> http://digitalcollections.pugetsound.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/sl
> aterwing
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Fwd: Geothlypis hybridization and variation
From: David Sibley <sibleyguides AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 11:17:02 -0400
An interesting and suggestive bird, but I dont see this as a Connecticut 
Warbler or a hybrid. It looks like a good match for Yellow Warbler, especially 
the pale-edged greater coverts visible in the side view, and the tail pattern 
in the spread tail photo, which seems to show a clear pattern of pale yellow 
inner webs with darker outer webs and tips. Both coverts and tail pattern are 
wrong for any Oporornis/Geothlypis, and right for Yellow Warbler. Why not a 
very dusky-olive Yellow Warbler with an abnormal voice? 


There may be other details that point away from Yellow Warbler, but for now I 
dont see any reason to go beyond that species. 


David Sibley
Concord, MA

On Oct 14, 2014, at 6:16 AM, Marcelo Brongo  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I cannot find anything wrong calling this bird a Connecticut Warbler. First
> fall individuals can have yellowish throat and overvall drab coloration (
> http://www.lilibirds.com/gallery2/d/1631-3/connecticut+warbler+1.jpg ). If
> sometimes colors can be hard to assess due to picture quality , we can rely
> on structure with better confidence. The flying pictures and open wing
> pictures are usefull. Geothlypis' species show very long tail extension
> beyond the undertail coverts (http://tinyurl.com/kjuwoja) and your bird
> doesn't. It's actually very short as a normal Connecticut W.). The wing
> morphology also match much better with Connecticut long pointed one. (
> http://tinyurl.com/kkn7mq4)
> 
> Best regards
> Marcelo Brongo
> 
> Wing picture was took from Slater Museum of Natural History (Wing & Tail
> Image Collection):
> 
http://digitalcollections.pugetsound.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/slaterwing 

> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Fwd: Geothlypis hybridization and variation
From: Marcelo Brongo <marcelobrongo AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:16:14 +0200
Hi,

I cannot find anything wrong calling this bird a Connecticut Warbler. First
fall individuals can have yellowish throat and overvall drab coloration (
http://www.lilibirds.com/gallery2/d/1631-3/connecticut+warbler+1.jpg ). If
sometimes colors can be hard to assess due to picture quality , we can rely
on structure with better confidence. The flying pictures and open wing
pictures are usefull. Geothlypis' species show very long tail extension
beyond the undertail coverts (http://tinyurl.com/kjuwoja) and your bird
doesn't. It's actually very short as a normal Connecticut W.). The wing
morphology also match much better with Connecticut long pointed one. (
http://tinyurl.com/kkn7mq4)

Best regards
Marcelo Brongo

Wing picture was took from Slater Museum of Natural History (Wing & Tail
Image Collection):
http://digitalcollections.pugetsound.edu/cdm/landingpage/collection/slaterwing

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Easier access to Geothlypis photos
From: Tristan McKee <atmckee AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 00:39:10 -0700
If you are having trouble viewing the photos of the Ventura bird, I have placed 
a few courtesy of Dorian Anderson on my flickr site: 


https://www.flickr.com/photos/101791769 AT N08/

Tristan McKee
Arcata, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Geothlypis hybridization and variation
From: Tristan McKee <atmckee AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 23:09:04 -0700
A Geothylpis warbler in Ventura County, CA, has been terrorizing birders with 
brief and unsatisfactory views for several days. Photos are here: 


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/venturacobirding/photos/photostream

Although first identified as a Mourning, then a Connecticut, it became clear 
today that this bird has yellowthroat genes. It has been suggested that more 
than one Geothlypis/Oporornis is present, but I scoured the small patch of 
Tamarisks today and yesterday and only saw that same bird repeatedly, the one 
in (most of) the photos. It is possible that some Yellow or Orange-crowned 
shots got mixed in; one flight shot looks shorter-tailed and may be a Yellow 
Warbler. 


The bird looks like a Common Yellowthroat but is largely rich yellow below 
(some white on the sides/vent) and often appears to have a square-tipped tail. 
In reality, the tail is rounded at the corners but has a notch in the middle. 
My best guess is that the central rectrices (and maybe others) are missing 
and/or growing adventitiously. (Try counting the tail feathers.) If this is the 
case, then the tail shape may be leading us astray. 


The chip note ranges from very Common Yellowthroat-like to Mourning 
Warbler-like. I have a not-so-great recording; send me an email if you'd like 
to hear it. 


The apparent yellow in the tail has led to the suggestion of a Yellow Warbler x 
Common Yellowthroat hybrid, while the overall appearance suggests Mourning x 
yellowthroat or Connecticut x yellowthroat. In any case, I take the call note 
and nearly nonexistent primary projection to indicate that at least one of the 
parents was some kind of yellowthroat. 


My suggestion of Gray-crowned Yellowthroat generated no support because of the 
tail length and bill depth. Some of the photos that just surfaced do suggest 
that the tail is not fully grown. I am unsure if a young Gray-crowned could 
have a developing bill this thin, but I have found photos that look similar. Is 
this geographically variable? The bird does have a contrastingly pale mandible 
and a somewhat curved culmen. 


Gray-crowned is geographically variable, with the eye-arc/eyering apparently 
changing clinally from north to south. The facial pattern is disturbingly 
Gray-crowned-like, although some of that black may be eucalyptus oil. 


Note the tail shape of this TX bird:

http://texasbirds.org/tbrc/gcyel.htm

and the thin bill and yellow-looking undertail of this one:

http://www.singularvideo.com/LB/gallery/84-72-Wood-Warblers.html

The bird responded aggressively to playback of Gray-crowned (flying out of a 
thick palm onto a telephone wire and chipping incessantly), but did not respond 
to a Common recording. 


I have found recordings a Gray-crowned giving Common-like chips, but they may 
have been misidentified, as I have also read that they NEVER do this. 


Belding's Yellowthroat could fit the bill. Obviously none of the suggestions so 
far are very likely here, so I will refrain from relying on likelihood too 
much... 


We would greatly appreciate comments from folks with experience with 
yellowthroat hybrids, immature and calling Belding's and Gray-crowned, and/or 
geographic variation in Gray-crowned or other yellowthroats. 


Many thanks,

Tristan McKee
Arcata, CA


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: SY Iceland Gull(?) spent over 2 months in Texas
From: Mark B Bartosik <MBB22222 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 22:39:31 -0400
Hi All,
 
I would appreciate ID confirmation (or correction if I am wrong). At this  
moment I believe there are only 5 officially confirmed records of ICGU in 
Texas  (perhaps there are more submitted) so it would be worth to submit this 
record if  indeed my ID is correct. Apparently it is a SY gull that in these 
photos is  about to complete prebasic molt (spread wing and tail are 
included in the composite; showing all fresh, basic flight feathers; P9 and P10 

are still  growing).  
 
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image/157805585
 
And just to show ‘metamorphosis’ after completing the molt, from worn and  
bleached plumage to fresh one, I will show a few headshots from different 
dates  during this gull molt. BTW what I enjoyed the most was fact that SY 
ICGU photos  I could find were usually showing bleached basic plumage of SY/TY 
and now I  could not only watch the progress in exchanging feathers but had 
an opportunity  to see them as fresh as possible right after they were full 
grown. 
 
http://www.pbase.com/mbb/image/157805583
Note:  second photo from top - spider on the gull head - it seems that he 
liked the  spot and stayed there for a longer time. Also in last photo - 
secretion from  nasal salt gland
 
Of course if somebody wants to include a few words about kumlieni vs.  
nominate race I will appreciate this as well although, I am afraid, it might 
not 

 be possible to positively IDed the race in this case.
 
I think I should include a short history of this find. I found it first  
time in mid July on the beach in south-west end of the Bolivar Peninsula. Gull 
 was in very sorry shape (bleached and worn plumage) so my initial request 
at  that time posted on some gull forum did not return much. I found later 
that at  that time this gull was also seen by others. It did not triggered 
much attention  probably (my guess) because one local authority first IDed 
this gull as Glaucous  then, after day or two later, announced that this is a 
bleached Ring-billed  Gull. Whatever, no more records reported that I am 
aware of. None on eBird –  perhaps it was reported as RBGU.
 
Because this gull had interesting molt progress and feathers that include  
some anomalies (and from the very beginning I was hoping it is ICGU) I tried 
to  follow it on a regular basis. For over two months (at least from mid 
July to  second part of September) it seems to reside in the Galveston Bay 
area - please note that tip of Bolivar, tip of Texas City Dike, Pelican Island 

(most parts  inaccessible to visitors) and East end of Galveston are only a 
few miles away  from each other and many sea and shorebirds travel from one 
place to another  when foraging (have some banded birds I observed to 
travel around). Problem is  that it takes a lot of time (and miles) to move 
around in the car (ferry, bridges, etc.) but I managed to find this gull 
usually 

in 1-2 weeks intervals  (time permitted; see explanation above) during 
July, August and September (BTW a  few other ICGUs found in Texas before also 
spent several months in one location  although during different months). On 
couple days I could not relocated this  gull at all. A few weeks ago, after 
being very close to complete prebasic molt,  including all flight feathers 
this gull very likely moved out of this area so I  missed full grown P9 and 
P10. It was not only during time when its prebasic molt  was almost completed 
but also at that time there was an influx of all ages  Lesser Black-backed 
Gulls that just arrived on this part of Texas shore. As  LBBGs and American 
Herring Gulls seem to move quite a lot in, out and along the  shore this ICGU, 
that just regained full flight ability, very likely joined them  in 
foraging trips and stopped to depend mostly on fish carcasses found near  
shoreline. BTW it was very dominant chasing away not only all LAGUs and RBGUs 
but 

also every LBBG. It never confronted Herrings but these larger gulls also  
never tried to claim food from ICGU when it was eating, even when nearby. I 
have  some video clips showing ICGU display postures but it will take time 
before I process them, processing photos will take priority. On the other hand 

if  somebody thinks that some other details are needed for positive ID (that 
are not  well shown in included composite) I will try to process more 
photos now (have plenty). BTW this gull was mute during displays, never heard 
it 

calling. 
 
Thanks in advance for comments
 
Cheers,
 
Mark 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Neal G. Smith - Obituary
From: Jean Iron <jeaniron AT SYMPATICO.CA>
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 17:53:44 -0400
We've often discussed Neal Smith's studies of Thayer's Gull on ID-Frontiers.
We do not recall his obituary being mentioned here or elsewhere and we had
no idea of his passing until reading it online today. We suspect others were
unaware too. His obituary was published in The New York Times on December
23, 2012. It reads: Smith, Neal. G., of Brooklyn NY. On September 28, 2012
in Panama City, Panama. Survived by his wife, Ninochtka Franco of Panama,
sons Roger and David, four grandchildren; Harrison, Taylor, Jaden and Ryan.
Obtained his Ph.D. from Cornell, 49 years staff scientist at Smithsonian
Tropical Research Institute in Panama. He was 75.

We thank Michel Gosselin for bringing this to our attention.

Ron Pittaway and Jean Iron
Toronto ON

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Scarlet/Summer Tanager on Island of Barra - NW Scotland
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 22:23:11 -0400
Lee,

Scarlet Tanager has white under wing coverts, Summer does not.

Allen T. Chartier
Inkster, Michigan
Email: amazilia3 AT gmail.com
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
Website: www.amazilia.net
Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Tony Leukering  wrote:

> Lee et al.:
>
> I cannot imagine a Summer Tanager with such contrastingly black wings and
> tail.  I see no reason to go down that road.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tony Leukering
> currently Mayville, MI
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/
>
> http://aba.org/photoquiz/
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee G R Evans 
> To: BIRDWG01 
> Sent: Thu, Oct 9, 2014 5:06 pm
> Subject: [BIRDWG01] Scarlet/Summer Tanager on Island of Barra - NW Scotland
>
>
>
> Images here: http://www.western-isles-wildlife.com/Latest%20Bird%20an
>
> 
d%20general%20wildlife%20sightings%20in%20the%20western%20isles,%20outer%20hebrides 

> .htm
>
> There was an overwhelming number of North American observers responding to
> my request opting for SCARLET TANAGER, while of 9 Canadian ornithologists,
> 8  were in favour of SUMMER TANAGER. The bird has been trapped and ringed
> in
> the  interim but I do not have access to the biometrics but we are still
> running with  it as a 'SCARLE'T' TANAGER. Is there any diagnostic ways of
> separating the two  in such plumage as some commentators believe some
> first-year
>
> Summers can lack  any of the orange plumage pigmentation
>
> Interested to hear any comments
>
> Many thanks
>
> Lee Evans
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Scarlet/Summer Tanager on Island of Barra - NW Scotland
From: Tony Leukering <greatgrayowl AT AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 17:19:05 -0400
Lee et al.:

I cannot imagine a Summer Tanager with such contrastingly black wings and tail. 
I see no reason to go down that road. 


Tony

 

 


Tony Leukering
currently Mayville, MI

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/

http://aba.org/photoquiz/

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lee G R Evans 
To: BIRDWG01 
Sent: Thu, Oct 9, 2014 5:06 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Scarlet/Summer Tanager on Island of Barra - NW Scotland


 
Images here: http://www.western-isles-wildlife.com/Latest%20Bird%20an

d%20general%20wildlife%20sightings%20in%20the%20western%20isles,%20outer%20hebrides 

.htm
 
There was an overwhelming number of North American observers responding to  
my request opting for SCARLET TANAGER, while of 9 Canadian ornithologists, 
8  were in favour of SUMMER TANAGER. The bird has been trapped and ringed in 
the  interim but I do not have access to the biometrics but we are still 
running with  it as a 'SCARLE'T' TANAGER. Is there any diagnostic ways of 
separating the two in such plumage as some commentators believe some first-year 


Summers can lack  any of the orange plumage pigmentation
 
Interested to hear any comments
 
Many thanks
 
Lee Evans

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Scarlet/Summer Tanager on Island of Barra - NW Scotland
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 17:04:09 -0400
 
Images here: http://www.western-isles-wildlife.com/Latest%20Bird%20an

d%20general%20wildlife%20sightings%20in%20the%20western%20isles,%20outer%20hebrides 

.htm
 
There was an overwhelming number of North American observers responding to  
my request opting for SCARLET TANAGER, while of 9 Canadian ornithologists, 
8  were in favour of SUMMER TANAGER. The bird has been trapped and ringed in 
the  interim but I do not have access to the biometrics but we are still 
running with  it as a 'SCARLE'T' TANAGER. Is there any diagnostic ways of 
separating the two in such plumage as some commentators believe some first-year 

Summers can lack  any of the orange plumage pigmentation
 
Interested to hear any comments
 
Many thanks
 
Lee Evans

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Opinions sought on vagrant TANAGER in NW Scotland (UK)
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 18:21:11 -0400
Putative Scarlet Tanager, 6-7 October 2014 - Island of Barra (NW  Scotland)
 
Selection of pictures here on Latest Sightings page - click to  increase 
size - _www.western-isles-wildlife.co.uk_ 
(http://www.western-isles-wildlife.co.uk) 
 
I am soliciting opinions from those familiar with Scarlet and Summer  
Tanagers in fall - this individual appears to have a particularly bright bill  
and peaked forehead. Is it possible to make a firm identification either  way?
 
Would be very interested in any opinions
 
Very best wishes
 
Lee Evans

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
 
Subject: Re: Semipalmated or Western Sandpiper
From: David Wheeler <tigger64 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 12:58:50 -0400
Yes, apologies - it's the same Dunlin that appears in isolation a couple rows 
above on the Photostream, and in the group of 3. In the group of three it's 
obviously a Dunlin but I noted how ambiguous it seems in a solo photo (then 
promptly mis-labeled the same bird elsewhere). Should have been going through 
my photos in order....... 



Here's the peep. I don't really think it's a Western but just variation in 
Semipalmated. I photographed it because the bill was slim and pointy-tipped and 
perhaps 25% longer than the Semi's it was with (such as the one on the right in 
the second photo). 



https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/15447200386/


David Wheeler
N. Syracuse, NY

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Semipalmated or Western Sandpiper
From: David Wheeler <tigger64 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 22:55:26 -0400
I photographed it because the bill was a lot longer than the Semipalmated it 
was with. It's not what I think of as a Western but obviously we don't see many 
in the eastern Great Lakes. Any thoughts welcome. The photos are tinted from 
low sun angle - I may have some better ones. 



First of four photos: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/15449573455/in/photostream/ 



David Wheeler
N. Syracuse, NY

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Semipalmated or Western Sandpiper
From: David Wheeler <tigger64 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 22:58:04 -0400
I guess actually this is the first of four: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/15426496066/in/photostream/ 



DW

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Video and Birds
From: "Mike O'Keeffe" <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 18:48:46 +0100
Hi,

 

Here is a neat trick for steadying video. Useful for studying gestalt (jizz) 
and for creating sharp web animations. 


 


http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/10/gestalt-and-video-useful-tip.html 


 

A few other recent postings might also be of interest including:-

 

A guide to digital image artefacts


http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/09/a-guide-to-image-artefacts.html 


 

Image quality of modified images – before and after


http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/09/image-quality-tool-modified-images.html 


 

A closer look at image exposure


http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/09/a-closer-look-at-image-exposure.html 


 

… and various others, here.

 

http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.com

 

Regards

 

Mike O’Keeffe

Ireland

 

 

 

 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: tern from off the Oregon coast
From: Jeff Gilligan <jeffgilligan10 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:36:46 -0700
A pelagic tern from Oregon: A little over a year ago we photographed a tern 
about 112 miles off Oregon which we thought might be an Aleutian Tern. We 
posted a link to the photos but the comments we got at that time were not 
entirely conclusive. Now we are asking for a review of 5 of the photos with 
specific questions about each. We don't claim to have viewed all possible 
photographs of Arctic or Common Terns, and photographs or either species in 
"Portlandica-like" plumages are not common. Photographs of Aleutian Terns are 
rare except for summer adults and juvenile birds. We wouldn't be surprised if 
some or all of the suggested field marks for Aleutian Tern are not conclusive, 
but we could use help in seeing evidence that they are not. Please download the 
PDF file at this link to see the photos and the questions: 



https://www.dropbox.com/s/0e9bgv79n1lm5q3/Tern.pdf?dl=0



Jeff Gilligan
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: a pelagic tern from Oregon
From: Jeff Gilligan <jeffgilligan10 AT gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:01:27 -0700


I posted photos of this tern a year ago or so on Frontiers. Since then Owen 
Schmidt has done as much research as possible from Oregon regarding the 
identification of "Portlandica" Aleutian Terns, including getting help from the 
museum that has the specimens of the birds that were collected off The 
Philippines. The purpose of this post is to ask what is wrong with the possible 
field marks that Owen has cited. Neither of us has seen every photo or specimen 
of Common or Arctic Tern, so it wouldn't shock me if some or all of the 
"diagnostic marks" mentioned are in fact not diagnostic. So  help us by 
showing photos of birds that disprove the usefulness of the marks mentioned in 
the attachment. Thanks for any efforts made. 


Jeff Gilligan

Oregon, USA 
Subject: Re: Olive sided Flycatcher?
From: William Leigh <leightern AT MSN.COM>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 16:21:02 +0000


Flycatcher id question2View slide show (1)View on FlickrFlycatcher id question2Flycatcher id question2Taken at top of 
Shenandoah Mountain in Virginia on Sunday. I saw it only long enough to take 
about 9 photos of which only the one below shows head and bill. Very distant 
but white on back along flanks shows. I waited for an hour but the bird never 
reappeared. I never was able to get the scope on the bird. Hence I have almost 
nothing of note to add to the description of the bird except to say that the 
time and habitat seemed suitable for Olive-sided Flycatcher. Perhaps the tail 
seems a bit long but do Eastern Wood Pewees show white on the back like in this 
photo? Could it be the wind lifted a few feathers up showing a white patch? 

Any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated! 
best, William Leigh leightern AT msn.comBridgewater, Virginia
William Leigh leightern AT msn.com

Bridgewater, Virginia 
 

 



Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:23:35 -0400
From: redwing1986 AT HOTMAIL.COM
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Sorry for incomplete emails re LBBG vs. GBBG
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU




Hello. I meant to say that an imaginary line drawn back across the head of an 
LBBG from the top of the upper mandible tends, in my experience, to pass 
through the eye or upper part of the eye, whereas, on GBBG, a line drawn back 
from the top of the massive bill tends to pass above the eye. 

 
The bill of the putative CA LBBG goes look big. however, when applied to the 
many photos presented to us, the above test would suggest LBBG. 

 
Caveat: consider the angle of the head in the photo.
 
I first applied the imaginary line test to the heads of BCNH and YCNH some 
years ago. 

 
Yours,
 
Jim Barton
Cambridge, MA
 
 
 
 
 
 
 		 	   		  
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
 		 	   		  
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Sorry for incomplete emails re LBBG vs. GBBG
From: James Barton <redwing1986 AT HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:23:35 -0400
Hello. I meant to say that an imaginary line drawn back across the head of an 
LBBG from the top of the upper mandible tends, in my experience, to pass 
through the eye or upper part of the eye, whereas, on GBBG, a line drawn back 
from the top of the massive bill tends to pass above the eye. 

 
The bill of the putative CA LBBG goes look big. however, when applied to the 
many photos presented to us, the above test would suggest LBBG. 

 
Caveat: consider the angle of the head in the photo.
 
I first applied the imaginary line test to the heads of BCNH and YCNH some 
years ago. 

 
Yours,
 
Jim Barton
Cambridge, MA
 
 
 
 
 
 
 		 	   		  
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Paul R Wood/UK/TLS/PwC is out of the office.
From: Paul Wood <paul.r.wood AT UK.PWC.COM>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 06:17:10 +0100

I will be out of the office from 29/08/2014 until 02/09/2014.

I will respond to your message when I return.




Note: This is an automated response to your message BIRDWG01 Digest - 27
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Subject: Re: SY graellsii vs. taimyrensis
From: Peter Adriaens <p_adriaens AT YAHOO.COM>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:27:29 -0700
Hi Tristan, 


I think I still cannot post to the entire list (due to my Yahoo address), but I 
hope that this email reaches you well. 


Lesser Black-backed Gull is a species that I am very familiar with; I spent a 
lot of time in the local breeding colonies here in Belgium (4,000+ pairs) in 
2010, 2011 and 2012, ringing the chicks and studying colour-ringed birds. It is 
a species I see daily. 


I have also studied and photographed (presumed) taimyrensis in Japan; see e.g. 
my collection of 1c birds here: http://www.pbase.com/smiths_1/taimyr_gull. I 
have reported a 1c Lesser Black-backed Gull (a big brute!) at Half Moon Bay, 
California, in Jan 2011; this bird was accepted by the CBRC 
(http://www.californiabirds.org/photos/lbbllbbg012911.htm). 



In all respects, the Eureka bird looks like a relatively normal graellsiito 
me. 

Here is a similar bird from Belgium, photographed just two weeks ago and 
wrongly reported as a Yellow-legged Gull (birds like this are confusing even to 
European birders!): 

http://waarnemingen.be/waarneming/view/87245855

 There are lots of photos for comparison at the Gull Research website 
(http://www.gull-research.org/lbbg2cyc/lbbg2cyaug.html). Here is another one 
fairly similar to the Eureka bird: 
http://www.gull-research.org/lbbg2cyc/2cyaugpic06.htm. 

Pale inner webs on 2nd-generation inner primaries are pretty normal in this 
species. See, for instance, this colour-ringed bird from France: 


http://tinyurl.com/lqbo9a5

 Therefore, to conclude, I would not be able to tell this bird from the local 
Lesser Black-backed Gulls if I came across it on the beach here... 



I hope this is of some help. 


Peter





On Thursday, August 28, 2014 6:56 AM, Tristan McKee  wrote:
 

>
>
>A large, heavy-bodied Lesser Black-backed Gull has been frequenting
>Eureka, CA this month. This is the first documented record of this
>"species" in northwestern California. While most experts agree that it
>fits L. f. graellsii fairly well, it has a few odd characteristics
>that are more typically associated with taimyrensis:
>
>1) cinnamon tones to neck, wings, and axillars.
>
>2) medium, californicus-like gray coming into the upper back and outer
>greater coverts.
>
>3) strongly contrasting medium-gray inner webs of the central and
>inner primaries.
>
>4) large size, bulkiness, and broad wings.
>
>Sean McCallister was able to approach the bird by kayak and snap the
>nicest shot yet:
>

>https://www.flickr.com/photos/101791769 AT N08/15058902725/in/set-72157646531768510 

>
>Rob Fowler captured this shot of the spread wings:
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/8695857 AT N04/14635649418/in/set-72157646085088186
>
>Because this record is an outlier in season and location (the
>mountain-bound north coast seemingly off the beaten path for invading
>graellsii), I don't feel comfortable with labeling this a "true"
>Lesser Black-backed unless we can firmly eliminate birds from the
>Taimyr Peninsula. The consensus is that this size and structure are
>within normal variation of graellsii. Amar Ayyash provided some photos
>of a presumed Dutch intergrade with cinnamon tones that approached
>this bird, and I have seen photos of intermedius that looked similar.
>Based on the paleness of incoming gray on the mantle, the rather
>short, broad wings, and the pale underwings, I don't think we have to
>worry too much about pure intermedius. Similarly, I would expect
>heuglini sensu stricto to have a darker mantle shade and to be much
>whiter on the head and underparts with more distinct dark streaking in
>summer.
>
>I contacted Nial Moores from Korea about this bird, who suggested that
>it looked a lot like taimyrensis but was less advanced in molt than
>expected, and that I should look for experts from further west to
>determine if graellsii can be eliminated.
>
>Questions:
>
>a) How likely is it for graellsii-types to combine distinct cinnamon
>tones with this pale mantle shade and contrasting inner webs to the
>primaries?
>
>b) The bird only had three first-cycle primaries left on each side
>when we found it at the beginning of the month. There was a distinct
>pattern break between the innermost greater coverts (boldly barred
>buff and blackish) and the incoming outer greater coverts (medium
>grayish), perhaps suggesting that the molt was termporarilly suspended
>(so the bird may have started molting earlier than it appears at first
>glance). Is this off for taimyrensis? I presume this all fits
>graellsii fairly well?
>
>c) Is there any way to actually eliminate such a mysterious form as 
taimyrensis? 

>
>d) Have I eliminated heuglini sensu stricto prematurely?
>
>e) What can we do to address the possibility of a graellsii x
>smithsonianus hybrid?
>
>Here are Rob Fowler's photos:
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/8695857 AT N04/sets/72157646085088186/
>
>and Gary Bloomfield"s:
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/bloomfieldstudio/sets/72157646436168602/
>
>
>Thanks for any input,
>
>Tristan McKee
>
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>
>
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Okay, SY Lesser vs. Great Black-backed Gull
From: Suzanne Sullivan <swampy435 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:54:36 -0400
Dear Tristan,
Not sure about Lesser Black-Back, I certainly can see why you question that
conclusion. The mantle seems too light and so well marked for a LBBG
approaching its second year. If it were my sighting I would question for
sure.  The most curious thing is the light inner webs of what is there of
the primaries.  And the bill, the upper mandible, seems to curve down like
a Yellow - legged gull. Did you look into Yellow- legged? It is really hard
to tell from the photos how dark the wing really is. There is one thing I
can say with a level of confidence, this is not a Great Black-Backed Gull.
They are just massive, every part of them is heavy, head bill, etc. and I
have seen on occasion smaller ones which always make me wonder if there is
something else in the gene pool. But they always have that look. Of coarse
this is like the worst time of year to id out of range gulls because some
of the key features like the outer primaries are molting.  The tail
feathers would be nice to see also, which are not there. Some gulls just
can't be id'ed, lord knows I have many. But this looks like a fun bird to
pick apart and learn on for sure. I can take a closer look later when I get
home. Hopefully some of the experts out there will weigh in and help you.
Cheers
Suzanne Sullivan
Wilmington ma

On Thursday, August 28, 2014, Tristan McKee  wrote:

> One more question has resurfaced regarding the Eureka bird: why isn't this
> a small female Great Black-backed Gull? I must admit this was my very first
> impression in the field. Note that size is incredibly difficult to judge
> from photos and even in the field, in this case. In some photos, it looks
> the same size as a Glaucous-winged or Western, while in others, barely
> larger than a California. I felt it generally blended in with the with
> large gulls and always dwarfed the Californias, but others insist it was
> smaller and easily a Lesser Black-backed. I am ignoring the pale gray in
> the back for now because it is very limited and there is so much confusion
> over developing gray in SY large gulls in general. The primary projection
> was short for a Lesser Black-backed but generally looked longer than Great
> Black-backed due to the missing rectrices.
>
> I've been discouraged from pursuing this bird's ID any further because it
> is "just a Lesser Black-backed", but I'm pretty confused at this point and
> feel it is rather cavalier to identify such an odd rarity so casually. East
> Coast and European observers, please help.
>
> Thanks again,
> Tristan McKee
> Arcata, CA
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html



-- 
Suzanne M. Sullivan
Wilmington, MA
swampy435 AT gmail.com

Be the Voice of the River
http://www.ipswichriver.org

Please support me in Buzz for a Cure
http://my.e2rm.com/PersonalPage.aspx?registrationID=2319868&langPref=en-CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Okay, SY Lesser vs. Great Black-backed Gull
From: Tristan McKee <atmckee AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 03:10:07 -0700
One more question has resurfaced regarding the Eureka bird: why isn't this
a small female Great Black-backed Gull? I must admit this was my very first
impression in the field. Note that size is incredibly difficult to judge
from photos and even in the field, in this case. In some photos, it looks
the same size as a Glaucous-winged or Western, while in others, barely
larger than a California. I felt it generally blended in with the with
large gulls and always dwarfed the Californias, but others insist it was
smaller and easily a Lesser Black-backed. I am ignoring the pale gray in
the back for now because it is very limited and there is so much confusion
over developing gray in SY large gulls in general. The primary projection
was short for a Lesser Black-backed but generally looked longer than Great
Black-backed due to the missing rectrices.

I've been discouraged from pursuing this bird's ID any further because it
is "just a Lesser Black-backed", but I'm pretty confused at this point and
feel it is rather cavalier to identify such an odd rarity so casually. East
Coast and European observers, please help.

Thanks again,
Tristan McKee
Arcata, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: SY graellsii vs. taimyrensis
From: Tristan McKee <atmckee AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 20:24:30 -0700
A large, heavy-bodied Lesser Black-backed Gull has been frequenting
Eureka, CA this month. This is the first documented record of this
"species" in northwestern California. While most experts agree that it
fits L.  f. graellsii fairly well, it has a few odd characteristics
that are more typically associated with taimyrensis:

1) cinnamon tones to neck, wings, and axillars.

2) medium, californicus-like gray coming into the upper back and outer
greater coverts.

3) strongly contrasting medium-gray inner webs of the central and
inner primaries.

4) large size, bulkiness, and broad wings.

Sean McCallister was able to approach the bird by kayak and snap the
nicest shot yet:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/101791769 AT N08/15058902725/in/set-72157646531768510 


Rob Fowler captured this shot of the spread wings:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8695857 AT N04/14635649418/in/set-72157646085088186

Because this record is an outlier in season and location (the
mountain-bound north coast seemingly off the beaten path for invading
graellsii), I don't feel comfortable with labeling this a "true"
Lesser Black-backed unless we can firmly eliminate birds from the
Taimyr Peninsula. The consensus is that this size and structure are
within normal variation of graellsii. Amar Ayyash provided some photos
of a presumed Dutch intergrade with cinnamon tones that approached
this bird, and I have seen photos of intermedius that looked similar.
Based on the paleness of incoming gray on the mantle, the rather
short, broad wings, and the pale underwings, I don't think we have to
worry too much about pure intermedius. Similarly, I would expect
heuglini sensu stricto to have a darker mantle shade and to be much
whiter on the head and underparts with more distinct dark streaking in
summer.

I contacted Nial Moores from Korea about this bird, who suggested that
it looked a lot like taimyrensis but was less advanced in molt than
expected, and that I should look for experts from further west to
determine if graellsii can be eliminated.

Questions:

a) How likely is it for graellsii-types to combine distinct cinnamon
tones with this pale mantle shade and contrasting inner webs to the
primaries?

b) The bird only had three first-cycle primaries left on each side
when we found it at the beginning of the month. There was a distinct
pattern break between the innermost greater coverts (boldly barred
buff and blackish) and the incoming outer greater coverts (medium
grayish), perhaps suggesting that the molt was termporarilly suspended
(so the bird may have started molting earlier than it appears at first
glance). Is this off for taimyrensis? I presume this all fits
graellsii fairly well?

c) Is there any way to actually eliminate such a mysterious form as 
taimyrensis? 


d) Have I eliminated heuglini sensu stricto prematurely?

e) What can we do to address the possibility of a graellsii x
smithsonianus hybrid?

Here are Rob Fowler's photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8695857 AT N04/sets/72157646085088186/

and Gary Bloomfield"s:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bloomfieldstudio/sets/72157646436168602/


Thanks for any input,

Tristan McKee

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Blue-winged Teal hybridisation in the USA
From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:17:04 -0400
I was wondering how extensive and widespread the hybridisation of  
Blue-winged Teal and Northern Shoveler is in North America, especially as 
perhaps 1 

out of every 5 'Blue-winged Teals' I twitch in the UK seems to be one.  
Browsing some superb North American websites on the net specialising in 
wildfowl seems to suggest that some of the 'Shoveler-billed' Blue-winged Teals 
are 

in  fact hybrids (or certainly have Shoveler influence) and it also worries 
me how  extensively orange-legged some individuals are (the majority of 
adult Blue-winged Teals have yellow legs and feet). Just intrigued to know the 

extent  of such happenings in the USA.
 
All the very best  

Lee
 
You can now follow Lee on Twitter at LeeEvansBirding



Lee G R Evans, Ornithological Consultant, Author, Bird  Guide & Tour Leader
General Ornithology - _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_ 
(http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/) 
British  Birding Association - _http://bbabirding.blogspot.co.uk_ 
(http://bbabirding.blogspot.co.uk/) 
Professional  Guiding - Latest Tour Information - 
http://ultimateguidingbirdwise.blogspot.co.uk/
Breaking  News/Bird Information/Announcements - 
_http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.co.uk_ 
(http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.co.uk/) 

Rare  Birds in Britain - http://rarebirdsinbritain.blogspot.co.uk/
Western  Palearctic Bird News - 
http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.co.uk/
Items  For Sale or Exchange - 
http://leesmemorabiliaandcollectables.blogspot.co.uk/

Local  Websites
Bedfordshire Birding - http://bedfordshirebirding.blogspot.co.uk/
Hertfordshire  Birding - http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.co.uk/
Buckinghamshire  Birding - http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.co.uk/
Birds  of Tring Reservoirs - http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.co.uk/
Amersham  Birding - http://birdingamersham.blogspot.co.uk/

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Interesting juv. cowbird
From: Ian McLaren <I.A.McLaren AT DAL.CA>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:20:39 +0000
Those who have a Facebook account might check today's postings on Nova Scotia 
Bird Society (open access without posting privilege) and scroll down to see a 
juvenile cowbird photo'd by a novice (almost all on that site are thus). Anyone 
who wants an image otherwise can also contact me. 



Comments welcome.


Ian McLaren

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Dowitcher ID
From: Jason Hoeksema <hoeksema AT OLEMISS.EDU>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:26:28 -0500
Jed,
To me, both birds look like adults, and at least one appears to have
upperparts feathers with white tips and rufous internal markings, pointing
to Long-billed.  Also, in several photos, at least one of the individuals
looks quite hunch-backed / grapefruit-filled, pointing to Long-billed.
Without knowing which individuals are which in the different photos, I'm
hesitant to ID both birds, but at least one of them seems to be a
Long-billed.
Jason Hoeksema
Oxford, MS


On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Jed Hertz  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
> On 7/18/2014 I sighted and photographed two Dowitcher species in a wet
> agricultural field NE of Kankakee, IL and refound the same two birds on two
> successive visits.  I photographed the Dowitcher on both the 18th and 19th
> and since submitting the records to "ebird" have been discussing the merits
> of SB vs LB with the ebird reviewer hoping to get beyond the "dowitcher
> species" designation.  I would appreciate further input from the wider
> birding community to add to this discussion.
>
>
> Ten photos from 7/18 + 19/ 2014 can be viewed at my Flickr website:
>  (Photos can be further zoomed using the Control key and Mouse Scroll
> function on your computer):
>
>
> *https://www.flickr.com/photos/jhertz/14514635778/
> *
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
>
> Jed Hertz
>
> Kankakee, Kankakee Co, IL (60 mi South of Chicago)
>
>
>
> Photos/Videos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jhertz/
>
>
>
> Data: http://ebird.org/content/ebird
>
>
>
> Birdscaping: http://bringingnaturehome.net/
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color
From: karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:47:08 +0000
Glenn and all: Very young Little Blue Herons can commonly have yellowish lores 
and a yellow hue to their bills into late August, but most show these traits 
for about a month after they fledge. I see this every year at Jamaica Bay 
Wildlife Refuge in NY, where they occur along side young Snowy Egrets, who have 
similar leg and bill shading. However, their bills are shorter and stockier 
than Snowy, and their necks are noticeably shorter and thicker as well. They 
also have very small black tips to their primaries, and this is easily seen if 
you look for it, and easily missed if you don't. Some young birds don't show as 
much yellow in the bill as others, and some have lores that just have a bit of 
yellow color. If you get them next to a Snowy, the physical differences are 
quite different, with Snowy's dagger-like bill unlike the thicker bill with 
slightly decurved upper mandible of Little Blue. Kevin Karlson 



----- Original Message -----

From: "Glenn d'Entremont"  
To: "Frontiers, ID"  
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:32:58 PM 
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color 

Today in Gloucester MA I saw a juvenile bird which structurally looked like a 
Little Blue Heron. Present was another juvenile and an adult Little Blue. The 
birds were far apart so no direct comparison for size. My impression was the 
bird was smaller than the other white plumaged bird, but when the adult 
interacted they were similar in size. I was surprised to see the lores were 
yellow and the bill had a yellow hue. I had not seen this before in Little Blue 
so started thinking about the "h" word; these birds nest on an island just a 
few miles from this location with Snowy Egrets. I did a quick search and came 
up with this image which is very close to the bird I saw: 


http://www.pwconserve.org/wildlife/birds/heronlittleblue.htm 

My question is if the lores are yellow on any given bird does the bill follow 
suit with a yellow hue? The gray/slate lored birds show gray/slate colored 
bills, as the second bird today did, and I have seen light pink with lightness 
on the bill. 


Thanks. 

Glenn 

Glenn d'Entremont: gdentremont1 AT comcast.net Stoughton, MA 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Little Blue Heron juvenile bill & lore color
From: "Glenn d'Entremont" <gdentremont1 AT COMCAST.NET>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 01:32:58 +0000
Today in Gloucester MA I saw a juvenile bird which structurally looked like a 
Little Blue Heron. Present was another juvenile and an adult Little Blue. The 
birds were far apart so no direct comparison for size. My impression was the 
bird was smaller than the other white plumaged bird, but when the adult 
interacted they were similar in size. I was surprised to see the lores were 
yellow and the bill had a yellow hue. I had not seen this before in Little Blue 
so started thinking about the "h" word; these birds nest on an island just a 
few miles from this location with Snowy Egrets. I did a quick search and came 
up with this image which is very close to the bird I saw: 


http://www.pwconserve.org/wildlife/birds/heronlittleblue.htm

My question is if the lores are yellow on any given bird does the bill follow 
suit with a yellow hue? The gray/slate lored birds show gray/slate colored 
bills, as the second bird today did, and I have seen light pink with lightness 
on the bill. 


Thanks.

Glenn

Glenn d'Entremont:  gdentremont1 AT comcast.net  Stoughton, MA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Dowitcher ID
From: Jed Hertz <jhh_60910 AT YAHOO.COM>
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:28:42 -0700
Hi all,


On 7/18/2014 I sighted and photographed two Dowitcher species in a wet 
agricultural field NE of Kankakee, IL and refound the same two birds on two 
successive visits. I photographed the Dowitcher on both the 18th and 19th and 
since submitting the records to "ebird" have been discussing the merits of SB 
vs LB with the ebird reviewer hoping to get beyond the "dowitcher species" 
designation. I would appreciate further input from the wider birding community 
to add to this discussion. 



Ten photos from 7/18 + 19/ 2014 can be viewed at my Flickr website: (Photos 
can be further zoomed using the Control key and Mouse Scroll function on your 
computer): 



https://www.flickr.com/photos/jhertz/14514635778/




Thank you in advance for your consideration.

Jed Hertz 

Kankakee, Kankakee Co, IL (60 mi South of Chicago) 



Photos/Videos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jhertz/ 



Data: http://ebird.org/content/ebird 



Birdscaping: http://bringingnaturehome.net/
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Paul R Wood/UK/TLS/PwC is out of the office.
From: Paul Wood <paul.r.wood AT UK.PWC.COM>
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 06:50:16 +0100

I will be out of the office from 15/08/2014 until 18/08/2014.

I will respond to your message when I return.




Note: This is an automated response to your message BIRDWG01 Digest - 12
Aug 2014 to 15 Aug 2014 (#2014-111) sent on 16/08/2014 06:00:23. This is
the only notification you will receive while this person is away.

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to such monitoring. 

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Visit our website http://www.pwc.com/uk




Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Got it!
From: Chris Hill <chill AT COASTAL.EDU>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:56:40 -0400
Thanks to many quick respondents who gave me Steves email, and to Jeremiah 
Trimble of the MCZ, who is going to help directly with my question. 


Chris

************************************************************************
Christopher E. Hill
Biology Department
Coastal Carolina University
Conway, SC 29528-1954
843-349-2567
chill AT coastal.edu
http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement
From: John Sterling <jsterling AT WAVECABLE.COM>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 09:46:49 -0700
I heard the call note of the one in Oceano, San Luis Obispo County and pointed 
it out to Guy McCaskie who was standing next to me. It was diagnostic for 
Arctic Warbler.....at the time I had two summers of experience working with 
Phylloscopus in Siberia and northwestern Russia and knew the call notes of 
those species well. 



John Sterling
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

26 Palm Ave
Woodland, CA 95695
530 908-3836
jsterling AT wavecable.com
www.sterlingbirds.com

On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Peter Pyle  wrote:

> I also wonder how decidedly the California birds were identified as 
borealis... 

> 
> At 02:38 PM 7/30/2014, Reid Martin wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable by 
voice or DNA (is this correct?) 

>> Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio recordings 
and/or specimen material that has been genetically examined that back up the 
AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, 
Amchitka) during spring and autumn migration."? 

>> Regards,
>> Martin
>> 
>> ---
>> Martin Reid
>> San Antonio
>> www.martinreid.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:
>> 
>>> HI ALL:
>>> Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:
>>> 
>>> http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1
>>> 
>>> sincerely
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Ian Paulsen
>>> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>>> Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
>>> http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/
>>> 
>>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>> 
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Steve Howell contact
From: Chris Hill <chill AT COASTAL.EDU>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 12:30:50 -0400
Hi All,

I have a question for Steve Howell about a specimen in the MCZ that hes 
inspected and Im having trouble getting more information on. If someone can 
send me his email address privately I would appreciate it (and it might help us 
resolve an apparent mistake on the South Carolina bird list). 


Chris

Chair, SC Bird Records Committee
************************************************************************
Christopher E. Hill
Biology Department
Coastal Carolina University
Conway, SC 29528-1954
843-349-2567
chill AT coastal.edu
http://ww2.coastal.edu/chill/chill.htm

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Status of parrots in S TX?
From: Noah Arthur <semirelicta AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 00:22:10 -0700
Hi everyone. I know this isn't exactly about bird ID, but it is
bird-related so hopefully not too OT...

Does anyone know what the current consesus is on the status of Green
Parakeet and Red-crowned Parrot in south TX? Most older books seem to say
that some may be wild vagrants, while more recent books generally say that
they're 100% escapes. To me it seems like it would be very hard to prove
either way...

Noah Arthur, Oakland, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: UV Bird Photography
From: "Mike O'Keeffe" <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 23:23:41 +0100
Hi,

I have put up some UV reflectance bird images on the blog.  Not very
inspiring I'm afraid.  Mostly I have delved more deeply in UV imaging
pitfalls and come up with some related theories and notes.  Ultimately I
think we need a proper UV imaging camera to properly get to grips with UV
and birds and I have some design specs and mockups included for good
measure.

http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/08/uv-imaging.html

Regards

Mike 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
From: Reid Martin <upupa AT AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 15:17:47 -0500
Dear Phil,
That's great; this information closes the gap nicely, and when attached to the 
Proposal forms a complete audit trail for the acceptance of this taxon onto the 
NACC List - thank you Terry and Phil. 


FYI I'd like to point out that in Kenyon's Birds of Amchitka Island (published 
in the Auk, 1961), two specimens of P. b. examinandus are mentioned (USNM 
465415 & USNM 465421) - but there is no description of the birds nor any detail 
of how they were identified as examinandus. Presumably Kenyon IDed them as such 
using the criteria established at that time (what were those, I wonder?). Given 
that the authors who recently split this taxon from xanthodryas warn that DNA 
and/or vocal evidence is needed to be sure of the ID between these taxa, I 
don't think we can say that the USNM specimens have been confirmed as 
examinanus - unless there are more data available that confirms DNA analysis 
for these two specimens? 


Regards,
Martin
---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com





On Jul 31, 2014, at Jul 31, 4:58 PM, Phil Davis wrote:

> ID Frontiers:
> 
> The messages below are from Terry Chesser, Chair of the AOUs Committee on 
Classification and NomenclatureNorth and Middle America. 

> 
> Phil
> 
> 
>> From: "Chesser, Terry" 
>> To: 'Phil Davis' 
>> CC: "David Bridge (bridgedavid AT earthlink.net)" 
>> Subject: FW: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf  Warbler
>> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:07:21 +0000
>> 
>> Phil, 
>>  
>> Could you post the message below on this list-serve? Apparently Im not 
allowed. 

>>  
>> Thanks,
>> Terry
>>  
>> From: Chesser, Terry 
>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:03 PM
>> To: 'BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU'
>> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
>>  
>> Dear Martin, Mary, Nick, and others,
>>  
>> Thanks for your interest in the checklist and in the P. examinandus question 
in particular. After the proposal on splitting P. borealis was submitted and 
voted on by the committee, the identification of purported examinandus 
specimens in the Alaska Museum from the Aleutians was confirmed using genetic 
methods, and the committee voted to add examinandus to the checklist. As a 
result of the confusion regarding this issue, we will be adding the following 
statement as an addendum to the proposal, to clarify the rationale for the 
committees decision: 

>>  
>> Numerous Aleutian Island specimens at the Alaska Museum, previously thought 
to be examinandus on morphological grounds, have now been positively identified 
as examinandus using DNA (J. Withrow, pers. comm.). All specimens from which 
genetic samples have been analyzed (12+ specimens from the Aleutians) have been 
confirmed as examinandus. In addition, Kenyon 1961 (Auk 78, pp. 322-323) 
previously published two specimens of examinandus (before Vaurie lumped this 
race with xanthrodryas) that are in the bird collection at the USNM. P. 
examinandus has not yet been added to the Alaska list because they follow AOU 
taxonomy and it is only now being split. Ordinarily we would wait for the local 
committee to accept the records before we add the species, but in this case 
there are peer-reviewed published specimens at USNM, the Alaska Museum 
specimens have been confirmed as this species, and Dan Gibson has said that 
there will be no difficulty adding P. examinandus to the Alaska list, so the 
committee has voted to add this species to the AOU Check-list coincident with 
the splitting of this species from P. borealis. 

>>  
>> Best regards,
>> Terry Chesser
>>  
> ===================================================
> Phil Davis, Secretary
> MD/DC Records Committee
> 2549 Vale Court
> Davidsonville, Maryland  21035     USA
> 301-261-0184
> mailto:PDavis AT ix.netcom.com
> 
> MD/DCRC Web site:  http://www.MDBirds.org/mddcrc/rcindex.html
> ===================================================
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
From: Phil Davis <pdavis AT IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 17:58:09 -0400
ID Frontiers:

The messages below are from Terry Chesser, Chair 
of the AOUs Committee on Classification and 
NomenclatureNorth and Middle America.

Phil


>From: "Chesser, Terry" 
>To: 'Phil Davis' 
>CC: "David Bridge (bridgedavid AT earthlink.net)" 
>Subject: FW: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf  Warbler
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:07:21 +0000
>
>Phil,
>
>Could you post the message below on this 
>list-serve?  Apparently Im not allowed.
>
>Thanks,
>Terry
>
>From: Chesser, Terry
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:03 PM
>To: 'BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU'
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
>
>Dear Martin, Mary, Nick, and others,
>
>Thanks for your interest in the checklist and in 
>the P. examinandus question in 
>particular.  After the proposal on splitting P. 
>borealis was submitted and voted on by the 
>committee, the identification of purported 
>examinandus specimens in the Alaska Museum from 
>the Aleutians was confirmed using genetic 
>methods, and the committee voted to add 
>examinandus to the checklist.  As a result of 
>the confusion regarding this issue, we will be 
>adding the following statement as an addendum to 
>the proposal, to clarify the rationale for the committees decision:
>
>Numerous Aleutian Island specimens at the Alaska 
>Museum, previously thought to be examinandus on 
>morphological grounds, have now been positively 
>identified as examinandus using DNA (J. Withrow, 
>pers. comm.).  All specimens from which genetic 
>samples have been analyzed (12+ specimens from 
>the Aleutians) have been confirmed as 
>examinandus.  In addition, Kenyon 1961 (Auk 78, 
>pp. 322-323) previously published two specimens 
>of examinandus (before Vaurie lumped this race 
>with xanthrodryas) that are in the bird 
>collection at the USNM.  P. examinandus has not 
>yet been added to the Alaska list because they 
>follow AOU taxonomy and it is only now being 
>split.  Ordinarily we would wait for the local 
>committee to accept the records before we add 
>the species, but in this case there are 
>peer-reviewed published specimens at USNM, the 
>Alaska Museum specimens have been confirmed as 
>this species, and Dan Gibson has said that there 
>will be no difficulty adding P. examinandus to 
>the Alaska list, so the committee has voted to 
>add this species to the AOU Check-list 
>coincident with the splitting of this species from P. borealis.
>
>Best regards,
>Terry Chesser
>

===================================================
Phil Davis, Secretary
MD/DC Records Committee
2549 Vale Court
Davidsonville, Maryland  21035     USA
301-261-0184
mailto:PDavis AT ix.netcom.com

MD/DCRC Web site:  http://www.MDBirds.org/mddcrc/rcindex.html
===================================================

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
From: "Lethaby, Nick" <nlethaby AT TI.COM>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:15:24 +0000
While I agree the acceptance of Kamchatka Leaf Warbler seems rather cavalier 
(especially given how reluctance the Alaska Records Committee is to accept even 
some photo-documented records), I think the assumption that the Shemya birds 
are Kamchatka Leaf Warblers is pretty safe. Most Borealis would be long gone 
from that latitude even in mid-September. In contrast Kamchatka is a common 
migrant through Hegura-jima (off Honshu) throughout October and even regular 
into November. Borealis is only known from there in Sept (Watabe-san told me 
this and he is pretty good) and its peak in Hong Kong is the second half of 
September. I believe Borealis is thought to be uncommon/rare in Japan even as a 
migrant (probably similar to Yellow-browed Warbler in status) so probably is 
not passing through Kamchatka in any numbers. 


From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Reid Martin 

Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:48 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler

Dear Mary,
Thanks for the link. If I read the proposal correctly (and my ADHD means that 
sometimes I miss things...) then there is no confirmed evidence that Kamchatka 
Leaf Warbler or Japanese Leaf Warbler have occurred in the AOU area - at best 
there is evidence that one or the other has occurred; maybe both but we don't 
know for sure. 


The proposal states that "According to ORNIS, there are at least three 
Aleutians specimens identified as subspecies xanthodryas at UAM. Given that the 
name xanthodryas has previously been applied to both E Asian taxa now split by 
other sources as examinandus and xanthodryas, it seems on geographical grounds 
much more likely to pertain to the species referred to by Alstrom et al (2011) 
as examinandus. The odds of the northerly breeding examinandus occurring in the 
Aleutians are naturally high, while xanthodryas (as restricted by Alstrom et 
al. 2011), which breeds in central and southern Japan, would be an unlikely 
vagrant to the Aleutians. The identity of these specimens needs to be rechecked 
in light of this restriction of xanthodryas." 


The proposal also says: "Arctic Warblers considered to be of the NE race 
examinandus have been recorded in rather large numbers on Shemya Island, with 
for example at least 10 recorded between 15 Sep to 18Oct (Tobish 2006)." 


NOTE my underlines to emphasize the terms used to quantify the ID of these 
records. 


There is nothing in these statements that establishes that examinandus is 
proven to have occurred in the AOU area. I am puzzled that the AOU seems 
willing to state categorically in its change to the Checklist that examinandus 
is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, Amchitka) during spring and autumn 
migration." This has not been proven based on the AOU Proposal, so perhaps 
there is some other evidence that confirms this? 


For me it rather feels like the AOU is saying "these Arctic Warblers have never 
been firmly IDed to taxon level when they were ssp. of borealis, and with this 
split we can't leave them unassigned, so we'll go with the most likely taxon." 


Why can't the checklist leave off examinandus as occurring in the AOU, and 
instead include the first paragraph quoted above? If the three specimens can 
provide proof of examinandus (or more material in the form of audio recordings 
or fresh DNA can provide this) then the species can be added next time, once 
there is proof. 


Note that Clements 6.8 says for the range of xanthodryas (as split from 
examinandus): "Incompletely known. Breeds Japan (Honshu, Shikoku, Kyushu); 
winters range uncertain". Here's a quote from the 2009-2010 Hong Kong Bird 
Report: "Since the period covered by this report, the Arctic Warbler complex 
has been split into three species. Two of these have now been accepted to occur 
in Hong Kong: Arctic Warbler P. borealis and Japanese Leaf Warbler P. 
xanthodryas. Kamchatka Leaf Warbler P. examinandus may also occur. Due to 
difficulties in field identification, all records of this species group are 
included under a single entry in this report." These statements show that the 
now-split xanthodryas is a migrant, and its range is incompletely known but at 
least reaches Hong Kong on migration. The vector from Hong Kong to Honshu, when 
extended north, goes through the Aleutians. 


As for relying on likelihood: here's a quote from the ABA 2003 Checklist 
Report: "Its occurrence in Alaska was unexpected, as Spotted Flycatcher is 
unrecorded anywhere in eastern Asia or the Indian Subcontinent." 


Regards,
Martin
---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com




On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 5:19 PM, Mary Gustafson wrote:


http://www.aou.org/committees/nacc/proposals/2014-A.pdf
p. 33 for the split. No, there's not much information there on the split, but 
there are specimens that can be followed up on. 


Mary Gustafson
Mission, Texas


-----Original Message-----
From: Reid Martin >
To: BIRDWG01 >
Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 4:41 pm
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement
Dear All,
My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable by voice 
or DNA (is this correct?) 

Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio recordings 
and/or specimen material that has been genetically examined that back up the 
AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, 
Amchitka) during spring and autumn migration."? 

Regards,
Martin

---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com




On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:


HI ALL:
Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:

http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1

sincerely
--

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement - Kamchatka Leaf Warbler
From: Reid Martin <upupa AT AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 20:48:16 -0500
Dear Mary,
Thanks for the link. If I read the proposal correctly (and my ADHD means that 
sometimes I miss things...) then there is no confirmed evidence that Kamchatka 
Leaf Warbler or Japanese Leaf Warbler have occurred in the AOU area - at best 
there is evidence that one or the other has occurred; maybe both but we don't 
know for sure. 


The proposal states that "According to ORNIS, there are at least three 
Aleutians specimens identified as subspecies xanthodryas at UAM. Given that the 
name xanthodryas has previously been applied to both E Asian taxa now split by 
other sources as examinandus and xanthodryas, it seems on geographical grounds 
much more likely to pertain to the species referred to by Alstrom et al (2011) 
as examinandus. The odds of the northerly breeding examinandus occurring in the 
Aleutians are naturally high, while xanthodryas (as restricted by Alstrom et 
al. 2011), which breeds in central and southern Japan, would be an unlikely 
vagrant to the Aleutians. The identity of these specimens needs to be rechecked 
in light of this restriction of xanthodryas." 


The proposal also says: "Arctic Warblers considered to be of the NE race 
examinandus have been recorded in rather large numbers on Shemya Island, with 
for example at least 10 recorded between 15 Sep to 18Oct (Tobish 2006)." 


NOTE my underlines to emphasize the terms used to quantify the ID of these 
records. 


There is nothing in these statements that establishes that examinandus is 
proven to have occurred in the AOU area. I am puzzled that the AOU seems 
willing to state categorically in its change to the Checklist that examinandus 
is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, Amchitka) during spring and autumn 
migration." This has not been proven based on the AOU Proposal, so perhaps 
there is some other evidence that confirms this? 


For me it rather feels like the AOU is saying "these Arctic Warblers have never 
been firmly IDed to taxon level when they were ssp. of borealis, and with this 
split we can't leave them unassigned, so we'll go with the most likely taxon." 


Why can't the checklist leave off examinandus as occurring in the AOU, and 
instead include the first paragraph quoted above? If the three specimens can 
provide proof of examinandus (or more material in the form of audio recordings 
or fresh DNA can provide this) then the species can be added next time, once 
there is proof. 


Note that Clements 6.8 says for the range of xanthodryas (as split from 
examinandus): "Incompletely known. Breeds Japan (Honshu, Shikoku, Kyushu); 
winters range uncertain". Here's a quote from the 2009-2010 Hong Kong Bird 
Report: "Since the period covered by this report, the Arctic Warbler complex 
has been split into three species. Two of these have now been accepted to occur 
in Hong Kong: Arctic Warbler P. borealis and Japanese Leaf Warbler P. 
xanthodryas. Kamchatka Leaf Warbler P. examinandus may also occur. Due to 
difficulties in field identification, all records of this species group are 
included under a single entry in this report." These statements show that the 
now-split xanthodryas is a migrant, and its range is incompletely known but at 
least reaches Hong Kong on migration. The vector from Hong Kong to Honshu, when 
extended north, goes through the Aleutians. 


As for relying on likelihood: here's a quote from the ABA 2003 Checklist 
Report: "Its occurrence in Alaska was unexpected, as Spotted Flycatcher is 
unrecorded anywhere in eastern Asia or the Indian Subcontinent." 


Regards,
Martin
---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com





On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 5:19 PM, Mary Gustafson wrote:

> http://www.aou.org/committees/nacc/proposals/2014-A.pdf
> p. 33 for the split. No, there's not much information there on the split, but 
there are specimens that can be followed up on. 

>  
> Mary Gustafson 
> Mission, Texas
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Reid Martin 
> To: BIRDWG01 
> Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 4:41 pm
> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] AOU Checklist supplement
> 
> Dear All,
> My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable by voice 
or DNA (is this correct?) 

> Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio recordings 
and/or specimen material that has been genetically examined that back up the 
AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, 
Amchitka) during spring and autumn migration."? 

> Regards,
> Martin
> 
> ---
> Martin Reid
> San Antonio
> www.martinreid.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:
> 
>> HI ALL:
>> Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:
>> 
>> http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1
>> 
>> sincerely
>> -- 
>> 
>> Ian Paulsen
>> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>> Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
>> http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/
>> 
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 17:49:39 -0700
I also wonder how decidedly the California birds were identified as borealis...

At 02:38 PM 7/30/2014, Reid Martin wrote:
>Dear All,
>My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable 
>by voice or DNA (is this correct?)
>Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio 
>recordings and/or specimen material that has been genetically 
>examined that back up the AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual 
>in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, Amchitka) during spring and autumn 
migration."? 

>Regards,
>Martin
>
>---
>Martin Reid
>San Antonio
>www.martinreid.com
>
>
>
>
>
>On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:
>
>>HI ALL:
>>Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:
>>

>>http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1 

>>
>>sincerely
>>--
>>
>>Ian Paulsen
>>Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
>>Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
>>http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/
>>
>>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: AOU Checklist supplement
From: Reid Martin <upupa AT AIRMAIL.NET>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:38:37 -0500
Dear All,
My understanding is that Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is only identifiable by voice 
or DNA (is this correct?) 

Assuming this is right, can someone confirm that there are audio recordings 
and/or specimen material that has been genetically examined that back up the 
AOU statement that this taxon is "Casual in the Aleutians (Attu, Shemya, 
Amchitka) during spring and autumn migration."? 

Regards,
Martin

---
Martin Reid
San Antonio
www.martinreid.com





On Jul 30, 2014, at Jul 30, 2:56 PM, Ian Paulsen wrote:

> HI ALL:
> Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:
> 
> http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1
> 
> sincerely
> -- 
> 
> Ian Paulsen
> Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
> Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
> http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: AOU Checklist supplement
From: Ian Paulsen <birdbooker AT ZIPCON.NET>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:56:32 -0700
HI ALL:
  Here's the latest AOU Checklist supplement:

http://aoucospubs.org/doi/full/10.1642/AUK-14-124.1

sincerely
-- 

Ian Paulsen
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
Visit my BIRDBOOKER REPORT blog here:
http://birdbookerreport.blogspot.com/

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Flicker
From: Andy Dettling <dendroica AT SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 09:47:31 -0400
Forwarding on Julie's behalf.   See below.

> 
> I am the observer of the intergrade flicker mentioned by Jocelyn Hudon in a 
previous post; my interpretation was based on the best information available at 
the time (2002) and the fact that the bird also had a cafer-like brown crown. 
At any rate, Jocelyn and I have been in frequent communication regarding the 
diet-based pigmentation theory. 

> 
>  
> 
> My area of research for many years has been the role of non-native fruit in 
the diet of birds in urban areas. I have many observations and thousands of 
fecal samples. So the angle I have been pursuing in the flicker issue is if and 
when flickers consume the fruits that contain the pigment rhodoxanthin, the 
pigment responsible for orange tail bands on waxwings and presumably the 
pigment responsible for red feathers on yellow-shafted flickers. 

> 
>  
> 
> Rhodoxanthin is present in the fruit of the non-native bush honeysuckles 
Lonicera tatarica (Tatarian Honeysuckle), L. morrowii (Morrows Honeysuckle), 
their hybrids, L. x bella; as well as Taxus spp. (yews), which we will leave 
aside for the time being. It is not present in L. maackii (Amur Honeysuckle). 

> 
>  
> 
> At least here in southeast Michigan, the rhodoxanthin-containing fruit are 
stripped by mid-August (Amur Honeysuckle blooms and fruits later, becoming 
available in early September). 

> 
>  
> 
> Thus, determining which primaries have red pigmentation, estimating the dates 
they may have been growing, and the phenology of the rhodoxanthin-containing 
honeysuckles is an important part of this puzzle. 

> 
>  
> 
> That might be moot if flickers dont eat any/much honeysuckle fruit to begin 
with. My observations/fecal samples of flickers are limited compared to other 
bird species, but I have no records of them eating honeysuckle fruit; they 
favor poison ivy and shrub dogwoods. 

> 
>  
> 
> Id be interested in compiling evidence on
> 
> 1) instances of flickers eating rhodoxanthin-containing honeysuckle fruit, 
with dates. The easiest way to separate the rhodoxanthin-containing 
honeysuckles from Amur honeysuckle is leaf shape (generally rounded and 
egg-shaped in the rhodoxanthin-containing species, pointed at the tip in Amur) 
and length of the fruit stalk/peduncle (> 5 mm up to 25 mm in 
rhodoxanthin-containing species, very short often < 4 mm in Amur). 

> 
> 2) Phenology of rhodoxanthin-containing species  specificially the date when 
the fruit of these species is no longer available. 

> 
>  
> 
> A final mystery is if/how rhodoxanthin can influence the other 
red-shafted-like plumage traits in yellow-shafted flickers  red feathers in 
mustache, brown crown, etc. 

> 
>  
> 
> Ill pass this data on to Jocelyn. Feel free to send to jac.rrbo AT gmail.com  
any similar data for yews is welcome, too. 

> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Julie A. Craves
> Rouge River Bird Observatory
> University of Michigan-Dearborn
> http://www.rrbo.org
> net-results.blogspot.com
> facebook.com/go.rrbo

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern?
From: Tony Leukering <greatgrayowl AT AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:58:07 -0400
 Dave:

It certainly sounds like that was a fun day! If it weren't for the photos in 
which the bluebird is perched, I would feel confident that it was a Mountain 
Bluebird. The in-flight pix certainly show the paler blue tail and the gray 
back typical of a female Mountain Bluebird. Though the chest is a bit warmer 
than typical, a sizable minority of female Mountains show such (see the 
treatment in the NGS Complete guide). 


However, in the photos of the perched bird -- granted, they're not the best and 
I'd be hesitant to be definitive about anything from them, the bird seems to 
have the high-domed look to the head and thick bill typical of Eastern 
Bluebird. The two species have been known to hybridize. While I'm not writing 
that the bird is not a Mountain Bluebird, I'd be leery of voting to accept were 
I sitting on NYSARC. 


Sincerely,

Tony

 


Tony Leukering
currently Caro, MI

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_leukering/

http://aba.org/photoquiz/

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: David Wheeler 
To: BIRDWG01 
Sent: Tue, Jul 29, 2014 4:42 pm
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern?


Thanks for all the comments about the Flicker. Also turning up after-the-fact 
in photos from the same day is this bluebird, which was accompanying a fly-by 
flock of Eastern Bluebirds. It is the bird on the right in the perched photos 
and on the left in the flight photos. We did not notice it in the field but it 
was a very busy day. Comments so far have leaned slightly to Mountain. 



https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/sets/72157645468229712/


Dave Wheeler
N. Syracuse, NY
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

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Subject: Bluebird - Mountain or Eastern?
From: David Wheeler <tigger64 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:31:58 -0400
Thanks for all the comments about the Flicker. Also turning up after-the-fact 
in photos from the same day is this bluebird, which was accompanying a fly-by 
flock of Eastern Bluebirds. It is the bird on the right in the perched photos 
and on the left in the flight photos. We did not notice it in the field but it 
was a very busy day. Comments so far have leaned slightly to Mountain. 



https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/sets/72157645468229712/


Dave Wheeler
N. Syracuse, NY

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: julian hough <jrhough1 AT SNET.NET>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 05:40:49 -0700
Hi Jerry,

All the birds in the images are Semipalmated Sandpipers and from a plumage 
point of view are typical of that species at this time of year. Structurally, 
females may stand out from the males in a flock by being longer-legged, 
slightly longer bodied/winged and longer-billed but plumage wise there is 
nothing unusual I see in the images to suggest anything other than typical 
Semips. 


Looking through flocks locally here in CT at this time of year, it is apparent 
that Semips are very variable - some being quite grey-toned while others are 
darker/browner. The upperpart color and pattern is rather monochrome, with the 
scapulars having a dark centre (with a pale basal area) and paler buffier 
fringe. 


The breast pattern and underpart markings can be very variable with some 
individuals showing heavily coalesced chevrons/streaking across the breast 
while others are more lightly marked on the breast, but most, like the birds in 
your images, show hairline streaks along the rear flanks and lateral tail 
coverts. 


Hope these comments help.

Thanks,

Julian



Julian Hough
New Haven, CT 06519
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com


________________________________
 From: Jerry Jourdan 
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU 
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid
 


Julian, Kevin(s), et. al.,

To follow up, I was photographing some of the Semipalmated Sandpipers here in 
SE Michigan over the weekend and came across a couple of birds that 'appeared' 
significantly larger than the rest of the Semipalms on the nearby mudflats. 
Here is a typical Semipalm: 

http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778389/large


The middle peep looks larger and heavier-headed than the foreground bird:
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778391


The bird appears darker, more heavily streaked on the breast that might suggest 
a White-rump, but bill shape and wing projection scream Semipalm. I have no 
experience w/ hybrids and am fine w/ Semipalm, but there is just something 
about this bird that requires a second look: 

http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778392

http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778393


I'm grateful for any comments,

Jerry
http://jerryjourdan.blogspot.com






On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 3:28 PM,  wrote:

Julian and all:
>
>the first three shots all look fine for a first summer White-rumped that has 
retained all of its juvenile wing coverts and flight feathers, and replaced its 
upperparts with somewhat typical White-rumped breeding feathers, including the 
dark centers and a few rust edges if you look real close. The head and bill 
shape (although a bit fine-tipped) are fine for White-rumped in these shots, as 
is the long rear body and wings that reach the tail tip, which is fine for some 
smaller male White-rumpeds whose wings do not extend past the tail. The pale 
legs could just be a by-product of low sexual hormones in this nobreeding bird, 
who probably did not go north to breed, with many post-breeding Semipalmated 
Sandpipers showing similar gray to pale straw-colored legs in August. I don't 
see any hybrid influence in this bird, and the heavily streaked upper breast 
and lack of flank streaking is fine for some first summer White-rumpeds that I 
have seen in NJ in June. 

 The last shot is a weird posture that I dismissed from any evaluation 
pertinent to the ID due to the odd angle of the head going away and the 
outstretched neck. Kevin Karlson 

>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: "hough, julian" 
>To: "Frontiers, ID" 
>Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36:06 PM
>
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid
>
>
>
>I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking 
sandpiper I took in CT many July's ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if 
it 

is to the point that it is not identifiable (or maybe it is!)
>

>https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 

>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Julian
>
>Julian Hough
>CT, 06519 
>USA
>jrhough1 AT snet.net
>
>
>Blog: www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
>website: www.JulianRHough.com
>
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 
>
>Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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Subject: Florida junco followup
From: Bill Pranty <billpranty AT HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 22:51:49 -0400
Good evening,

A month ago I posted an RFI to this list referring to a junco that Dave Gagne, 
Gail Deterra, and I discovered and that Gail and I photographed, at North 
Anclote Bar, Anclote Key Preserve State Park, Pasco County, Florida, on 30 June 
2014. We identified the junco as being an "Oregon" type, a subspecies-group 
that had never been verifiably documented previously in Florida. 


Through this list and personal contact, I received comments from 11 others, all 
of whom agreed that the bird was an "Oregon" Junco. (Thanks to Cameron Cox, 
Elias Elias, Ted Floyd, Jon Greenlaw, Richard Hoyer, Alvaro Jaramillo, Ed 
Kwater, Tony Leukering, MIchael Price, Peter Pyle, and David Sibley). Four 
observers sexed the junco as a male, and two aged it as a second-calendar-year. 
Based on its plumage and appearance in Florida, Peter and Ted suggested that 
the junco was of the migratory subspecies montanus (following Nolan et al. 
2002, BNA account) or shufeldti (following Pyle 1997 and others) that breeds 
from central British Columbia and southwestern Alberta to eastern Oregon, 
western Idaho, and western Montana. 


According to Stevenson and Anderson (1994, The Birdlife of Florida), all 
specimens of Dark-eyed Junco in Florida are of the nominate "Slate-colored" 
subspecies J. h. hyemalis, except for one J. h. cistmontanus ("Cassiar" Junco) 
felled by a TV tower at Tallahassee, 5 December 1955. This specimen is housed 
at Tall Timbers Research Station (# 2165). Through courtesy of Jim Cox, today I 
received three photographs of this specimen. To me, it seems like a rather 
typical eastern "Slate-colored" Junco, with gray plumage showing minor brown 
highlights and with no contrast between the head and back. 


The three photos of TTRS 2165, and three of Gail's image of the North Anclote 
Bar "Oregon" Junco are posted at the link below. 


Comments are welcome.

http://postimg.org/gallery/3cvj8wt8/

Thank you.


Best regards,

Bill Pranty
Bayonet Point, Florida
 		 	   		  
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Asian Raptor ID articles
From: Robert DeCandido PhD <rdcny AT EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 21:53:32 -0500
Below find download links to three newly published (popular) articles on
raptors in Thailand and Nepal. The articles stem from our raptor migration
work along the east coast of southern Thailand (Khao Dinsor), as well as up
in the mountains of Nepal near Pokhara (Thoolakharka). 

Each article contains many color photos of Asian raptors in the hand and in
flight:

(1) Flight Identification of Six Southeast Asian Accipiter Species: Chinese
Sparrowhawk; Japanese Sparrowhawk; Shikra; Besra; Crested Goshawk and
Eurasian Sparrowhawk. Here is the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/641kigil1ftpveq/Accipiters.Thailand.ID.2014.pdf


(2) Ringing (Banding) migrant sparrowhawks in southern Thailand:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oo7bsj9b0g921r8/Sparrowhawks.Banding.Thailand.2014.pdf 



(3) Flight identification of Black-eared Kite and Pariah Kite in Nepal
and Thailand:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccwpydvmjl0okgw/Kite.BlackEared.Pariah.2014.pdf


All the articles were published in BirdingASIA within the last year. We
recommend reading each of the articles as a two-page display - in Adobe
Acrobat go to:  VIEW  > PAGE DISPLAY > TWO PAGE  VIEW 

If you want to know more about our research site in Thailand, download this
article:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ru91nrrdcpvubhl/2012.FinalReport.KhaoDinsor.pdf

If you want to know more about our research site in Nepal, download this
article: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qd93z67e18mtlzb/2013.FinalReport.Nepal.pdf

Any questions, problems, concerns: do send them this way.

Robert DeCandido PhD 

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Allen's vs Rufous Hummingbird question
From: Steve Hampton <stevechampton AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 18:47:18 -0700
All,

I've obtained more pics and posted them at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/7202050 AT N04/sets/72157645569533218/

I'm feeling pretty solid about imm male Allen's, with R5 on the right side
molted and now an adult feather.




On Sun, Jul 27, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Steve Hampton 
wrote:

> All,
>
> I am seeking opinions on this hummingbird here:
> 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/7202050 AT N04/14783504333/in/set-72157645569533218 

> There are two photos.
>
> Photographed July 27 in Davis, CA.  (near Sacramento).
>
> Allen's is very rare and difficult to detect here, but recent banding has
> proven they are regular in June-July.  Rufous is a regular migrant in
> spring and fall.  However, the day before this photo, at a banding station
> a few miles from this bird, 4 or 5 Selasphorus banded were Allen's.
>
> This bird appears to be an immature male Allen's with R5 on the right side
> already molted to an adult feather and R5 on the left consistent with juv
> Allen's.
>
> A photo at
> 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/from_barbs_garden_and_beyond/3841302697/in/gallery-tzunun-72157628212716713/ 

> is labeled Rufous, but Sheri Williamson says it is Allen's.  Note it also
> has one R5 of each type.  That photo is from Aug 18.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> thanks,
>
> --
> Steve Hampton
> Davis, CA
>



-- 
Steve Hampton
Davis, CA

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: Jerry Jourdan <jerry.jourdan AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 20:12:22 -0400
Julian, Kevin(s), et. al.,

To follow up, I was photographing some of the Semipalmated Sandpipers here
in SE Michigan over the weekend and came across a couple of birds that
'appeared' significantly larger than the rest of the Semipalms on the
nearby mudflats. Here is a typical Semipalm:
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778389/large

The middle peep looks larger and heavier-headed than the foreground bird:
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778391

The bird appears darker, more heavily streaked on the breast that might
suggest a White-rump, but bill shape and wing projection scream Semipalm. I
have no experience w/ hybrids and am fine w/ Semipalm, but there is just
something about this bird that requires a second look:
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778392
http://www.pbase.com/jourdaj/image/156778393

I'm grateful for any comments,

Jerry
http://jerryjourdan.blogspot.com



On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 3:28 PM,  wrote:

> Julian and all:
> the first three shots all look fine for a first summer White-rumped that
> has retained all of its juvenile wing coverts and flight feathers, and
> replaced its upperparts with somewhat typical White-rumped breeding
> feathers, including the dark centers and a few rust edges if you look real
> close. The head and bill shape (although a bit fine-tipped) are fine for
> White-rumped in these shots, as is the long rear body and wings that reach
> the tail tip, which is fine for some smaller male White-rumpeds whose wings
> do not  extend past the tail. The pale legs could just be a by-product of
> low sexual hormones in this nobreeding bird, who probably did not go north
> to breed, with many post-breeding Semipalmated Sandpipers showing similar
> gray to pale straw-colored legs in August. I don't see any hybrid influence
> in this bird, and the heavily streaked upper breast and lack of flank
> streaking is fine for some first summer White-rumpeds that I have seen in
> NJ in June. The last shot is a weird posture that I dismissed from any
> evaluation pertinent to the ID due to the odd angle of the head going away
> and the outstretched neck. Kevin Karlson
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"hough, julian" 
> *To: *"Frontiers, ID" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36:06 PM
>
> *Subject: *[BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid
>
> I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking sandpiper I took in CT many
> July's ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if it is to the point that
> it is not identifiable (or maybe it is!)
>
>
> 
https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 

>
> Thanks,
>
> Julian
>
> Julian Hough
> CT, 06519
> USA
> jrhough1 AT snet.net
>
> Blog: www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
> website: www.JulianRHough.com
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
>
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

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Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Jocelyn Hudon <Jocelyn.Hudon AT GOV.AB.CA>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 21:46:51 +0000
Many thanks David for providing a much broader context to the initial flicker 
question than my expeditious post. 


Please allow me to add a few precisions to two of the listed studies:

In spite of what I think was strong evidence for a dietary explanation 
(year-to-year variability in which feathers were red on a single flicker), 
Ingold and Weise (1985) actually invoked a developmental explanation instead: 
genes turned on and off during the molt process that can influence all growing 
flight feathers but that are imperfect in timing, genes always on but exerting 
their action only on certain flight feathers, etc... 


The assessment has been perpetuated in subsequent studies, for example Julie 
Craves' interpretation of a young flicker with red shafts (at 
http://www.rrbo.org/in-the-field/notable-birds/odd-plumages-2/intergrade-flicker/, 
also in a publication in Michigan Birds and Natural History 
(http://www.rrbo.org/pdf/nofl.pdf) . 


Finally, Short counted as intergrades birds just like the one described by Jim, 
well documented in collections, some of which go back quite a few years, so the 
true extent of introgression in the Northern Flicker is likely much more 
limited than currently believed. 


Best,

Jocelyn

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of David Sibley 

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 2:11 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

Hi Jim and all,

I've been interested in this question for a long time, and can add a few 
observations here that may be useful. First, intergrades (as you would expect) 
are extremely variable, showing the complete range of intermediate plumage 
features; and the appearance of different parts of the bird is not always 
linked. That is, a bird can have wings close to Red-shafted but a face pattern 
more like Yellow-shafted, etc. In general, among the intergrades that I see in 
the northern Great Plains from Minnesota to Montana, wing and tail color is not 
a very reliable way to identify them. I always look for head pattern, which I 
use to confirm a suspected intergrade in a bird with wing color a little bit 
"off", and it also reveals a lot of intergrades that I did not even suspect 
based on wing color. I don't think any records of intergrades (or Red-shafted) 
in the east should be accepted based on wing and tail color alone - only with 
careful study of the head pattern. 


One thing I don't see in intergrades is the contrasting mix of pure yellow and 
pure red flight feather colors shown in the Dave Wheeler photo from Derby Hill. 
A pattern like that suggests the red color was somehow "switched on" during 
molt, and therefore probably doesn't mean an intergrade. Intergrades typically 
show a more uniform and more subtle shading of orange color across all of the 
feathers. 


I'm looking forward to seeing the results of Jocelyn Hudon's research on this. 
In the meantime you might be interested in these older papers. 


Ingold, James L. and Charles M. Weise. 1985. Observations On Feather Color 
Variation in a Presumed Common Flicker intergrade. Journal of Field 
Ornithology. 56: 403-405 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/jfo/v056n04/p0403-p0405.pdf - 
Directly relevant to the Derby Hill birds, an otherwise typical male 
Yellow-shafted Flicker with a few contrasting red flight feathers was trapped 
and banded in Wisconsin in Feb 1976 and again in Feb 1977 and Feb 1978. The 
exact position of red feathers in the wings and tail was different in each of 
the three years (but symmetrical in each year). No other trace of introgression 
was found. They suspected the red color was diet-related. 


Test, F. H. 1969. Relation of wing and tail color of the woodpeckers Colaptes 
auratus and C. cafer to their food. Condor 71: 206-211. 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/condor/v071n02/p0206-p0211.pdf 
- studied captive flickers on a controlled diet, 


Short, Lester L. Jr. 1965. Hybridization in the Flickers (Colaptes) of North 
America. Bull. of the Am. Mus. of Nat. Hist. 129: 307-428 - a massive study of 
variation in flickers, finding an intergrade zone many hundreds of miles wide, 
and evidence of introgression from coast to coast. 


Good Birding,

David Sibley
Concord, MA

On Jul 27, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Jim Tarolli 
> wrote: 



Hi everyone,
This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the 
Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, the 
Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th which 
had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. We 
were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 


On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or answers 
on the subject would be appreciated. 



Jim Tarolli
Baldwinsville, NY
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Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Peter Pyle <ppyle AT BIRDPOP.ORG>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:24:33 -0700
Regarding color and molt interactions, I often 
see clines in coloration indicating color change 
while a bird is in molt; i.e., clines from p1 to 
p10, from s1 inward, and from the tertials 
outward (actually usually bidirectionally from 
the second tertial, e.g., s8 in passerines). s1 
typically drops about when p6 drops, resulting in 
a contrast between p1 and s1 in these cases (for 
example, first-year male blackbirds, where p1 is 
still brownish, clining towards blacker by p6, 
and s1 matching p6 and contrasting with p1). 
These molt sequence patterns seem very fixed in 
birds (about the only thing about molt that is 
fixed!) and so appears in all taxa. Red beginning 
at p7 in Northern Flicker could represent such a 
pattern, and the coloration could have to do with 
diet (especially reds) or other hormonal 
pigment-deposition processes, of which we know little about.

Alternating feather colors (e.g. red and yellow 
in flickers) is rarer to me in birds, and I'd 
first consider feathers dropping accidentally and 
being replaced according to a different 
color-deposition signal. Or I've seen it 
sometimes within a generation due to 
feather-follicle injury or some other problem. In 
each of these cases, the pattern should not be 
symmetrical between wings. If symmetrical, I'd 
then consider some sort of hormonal balance anomaly.

Peter

At 01:52 PM 7/28/2014, Kevin J. McGowan wrote:
>Cornell has a large series of specimens of 
>Northern Flickers from Lester Short’s Ph.D. 
>work in the 1960s on hybridization across the 
>Great Plains, and I’ve gone through them a 
>number of times. What one sees in the hybrids 
>are a mix of face and feather characteristics 
>(gray crown and brown cheek/ brown crown and 
>gray cheek, red or black mustache, yellow, red 
>or orange feathers), but not mixes of yellow and 
>red feathers in one individual. The colors run 
>from yellow to orange to red, but any one bird 
>has all the feathers the same color.  I forget 
>if tail feathers always match the wings, but I 
>think they do. You do see a mix of black and red 
>in the males’ mustache, though.  I have a scan 
>of an old image of representatives of the series at

>https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mX1nxxeDJlT10xmMmR8Lw9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink 

>(This shot was actually one of the first images 
>I ever put online, back in 1995.)
>
>While I was curating the Cornell collection I 
>noticed that we started getting in a large 
>proportion of flickers  with red in the 
>primaries, and sometimes in the tail. It got so 
>that virtually every individual had some tinge 
>of red, with a few having about half the 
>feathers orange-to-red.  It was always the same 
>feathers, with the shaft of primary 7 (I think) 
>having the deepest coloration. If any feather 
>would have red, it was that one. I figured this 
>pattern indicated molt and diet, and I was 
>guessing this was another case of cheap 
>carotenoids gathered from the invasive 
>honeysuckle that makes Cedar Waxwings’ tails 
>orange. I got a young between-schools student to 
>start looking at specimens in the major 
>collections, but his life took a different turn 
>(as did mine) and we never progressed on the 
>project.  We did prepare a fair number of 
>spread-wing specimens here at Cornell.  I look 
>forward to seeing Jocelyn’s study results!
>
>I’m still working to get decent flight shots 
>of the flickers, but I did manage a decent one 
>of a sitting mixed-color female flicker the other day:

>https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BS8Cccyw5xN9kcFCLpvAQdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink. 

>Note that she has a very red primary, but no 
>hint of gray throat or face. Also, the base of 
>the feather is yellowish. This looks like diet 
>and molt interactions, not genetics to me.
>
>Best,
>
>Kevin
>
>
>Kevin J. McGowan, Ph.D.
>Instructor
>Home Study Course in Bird Biology
>Investigating Behavior: Courtship and Rivalry in Birds
>Cornell Lab of Ornithology
>159 Sapsucker Woods Road
>Ithaca, NY 14850
>Kjm2 AT cornell.edu
>607-254-2452
>
>Do you know about our other distance-learning 
>opportunities? Visit 
>http://www.birds.cornell.edu/courses 
>and learn about our comprehensive Home Study 
>Course in Bird Biology, our online course 
>Investigating 
>Behavior: 
>Courtship and Rivalry in Birds, our 
>Be 
>A Better Birder 
>tutorials, 
>and our series of 
>webinars. 
>Purchase the webinars here.
>
>
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field 
>Identification [mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jocelyn Hudon
>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:24 AM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>I am working on a pigment paper showing that the 
>aberrant red shafts are diet-related. The red 
>color in some of these birds is redder than in pure “Red-shafted 
Flickers”! 

>
>I am currently compiling instances of this type 
>of variation to ascertain geographical 
>extent/time of year and would appreciate being 
>informed (privately) of other examples of this. Proper credits will be given.
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Jocelyn
>
>Jocelyn Hudon, Ph.D.
>Curator of Ornithology
>Royal Alberta Museum
>
>From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field 
>Identification 
>[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] 
>On Behalf Of Jim Tarolli
>Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:30 PM
>To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
>Subject: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
>
>Hi everyone,
>This spring we had large numbers of 
>Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the Derby 
>Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY.  The two high 
>counts, per Steve Kolbe, the Derby Hill Hawk 
>counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and 
>April 20th which had 1,250.  We had a couple 
>other days that 150-200 were counted going by. 
>We were able to photograph a few possible 
>intergrades.  In both of the following photos, 
>the birds have some red shafts.  But also, they 
>both appear to have brown faces.  In "The Sibley 
>Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as 
>having a mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe.
>
>On April 11th I photographed this bird: 

>https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

>And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this 
>bird: 

>https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

>Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet 
>related?  Any thoughts or answers on the subject would be appreciated.
>
>
>Jim Tarolli
>Baldwinsville, NY
>Archives: 

>http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

>
>This email and any files transmitted with it are 
>confidential and intended solely for the use of 
>the individual or entity to whom they are 
>addressed. If you have received this email in 
>error please notify the system manager. This 
>message contains confidential information and is 
>intended only for the individual named. If you 
>are not the named addressee you should not 
>disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: UV Bird Photography
From: "Mike O'Keeffe" <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 21:58:58 +0100
Hi,

More on UV photography here including a bit more fine-tuning of the gear and
10 of the 33 Irish butterfly species captured in UV. 
The Common Blue is an absolute gem!  Still working on bird UV images.  More
in due course.

http://birdingimagequalitytool.blogspot.ie/2014/07/more-on-uv-imaging.html 

Regards

Mike

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Thomas Wetmore <ttw4 AT VERIZON.NET>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 17:01:22 -0400
Just a FYI.

On April 21, 1972, my wife and I were en route to grad school in Fairbanks, 
Alaska, and we stopped off for a day at the Theodore Roosevelt National Park in 
North Dakota. We ate lunch in the Cottonwood Campground. The trees around us 
were filled with literally hundreds of flickers of all possible combinations of 
colors and markings. At the time I was strictly an easterner, anxious to get 
his first glimpse at a Red-shafted Flicker (1972 was before the lump). There 
were so many combinations in those many birds that if I remember correctly I 
had to look through a few birds before finding a pure and simple classic 
Red-shafted. 


Tom Wetmore

On Jul 28, 2014, at 4:11 PM, David Sibley  wrote:

> Hi Jim and all,
> 
> Ive been interested in this question for a long time, and can add a few 
observations here that may be useful. First, intergrades (as you would expect) 
are extremely variable, showing the complete range of intermediate plumage 
features; and the appearance of different parts of the bird is not always 
linked. That is, a bird can have wings close to Red-shafted but a face pattern 
more like Yellow-shafted, etc. In general, among the intergrades that I see in 
the northern Great Plains from Minnesota to Montana, wing and tail color is not 
a very reliable way to identify them. I always look for head pattern, which I 
use to confirm a suspected intergrade in a bird with wing color a little bit 
off", and it also reveals a lot of intergrades that I did not even suspect 
based on wing color. I dont think any records of intergrades (or Red-shafted) 
in the east should be accepted based on wing and tail color alone - only with 
careful study of the head pattern. 

> 
> One thing I dont see in intergrades is the contrasting mix of pure yellow 
and pure red flight feather colors shown in the Dave Wheeler photo from Derby 
Hill. A pattern like that suggests the red color was somehow switched on 
during molt, and therefore probably doesnt mean an intergrade. Intergrades 
typically show a more uniform and more subtle shading of orange color across 
all of the feathers. 

> 
> Im looking forward to seeing the results of Jocelyn Hudons research on 
this. In the meantime you might be interested in these older papers. 

> 
> Ingold, James L. and Charles M. Weise. 1985. Observations On Feather Color 
Variation in a Presumed Common Flicker intergrade. Journal of Field 
Ornithology. 56: 403-405 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/jfo/v056n04/p0403-p0405.pdf - 
Directly relevant to the Derby Hill birds, an otherwise typical male 
Yellow-shafted Flicker with a few contrasting red flight feathers was trapped 
and banded in Wisconsin in Feb 1976 and again in Feb 1977 and Feb 1978. The 
exact position of red feathers in the wings and tail was different in each of 
the three years (but symmetrical in each year). No other trace of introgression 
was found. They suspected the red color was diet-related. 

> 
> Test, F. H. 1969. Relation of wing and tail color of the woodpeckers Colaptes 
auratus and C. cafer to their food. Condor 71: 206-211. 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/condor/v071n02/p0206-p0211.pdf 
- studied captive flickers on a controlled diet, 

> 
> Short, Lester L. Jr. 1965. Hybridization in the Flickers (Colaptes) of North 
America. Bull. of the Am. Mus. of Nat. Hist. 129: 307-428 - a massive study of 
variation in flickers, finding an intergrade zone many hundreds of miles wide, 
and evidence of introgression from coast to coast. 

> 
> Good Birding, 
> 
> David Sibley
> Concord, MA
> 
> On Jul 27, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Jim Tarolli  wrote:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by 
the Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, 
the Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th 
which had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. 
We were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 

>> 
>> On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

>> 
>> And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

>> 
>> Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or 
answers on the subject would be appreciated. 

>> 
>> 
>> Jim Tarolli
>> Baldwinsville, NY
>> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
> 
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2 AT CORNELL.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 20:52:11 +0000
Cornell has a large series of specimens of Northern Flickers from Lester 
Short’s Ph.D. work in the 1960s on hybridization across the Great Plains, and 
I’ve gone through them a number of times. What one sees in the hybrids are a 
mix of face and feather characteristics (gray crown and brown cheek/ brown 
crown and gray cheek, red or black mustache, yellow, red or orange feathers), 
but not mixes of yellow and red feathers in one individual. The colors run from 
yellow to orange to red, but any one bird has all the feathers the same color. 
I forget if tail feathers always match the wings, but I think they do. You do 
see a mix of black and red in the males’ mustache, though. I have a scan of 
an old image of representatives of the series at 


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mX1nxxeDJlT10xmMmR8Lw9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink 

(This shot was actually one of the first images I ever put online, back in 
1995.) 


While I was curating the Cornell collection I noticed that we started getting 
in a large proportion of flickers with red in the primaries, and sometimes in 
the tail. It got so that virtually every individual had some tinge of red, with 
a few having about half the feathers orange-to-red. It was always the same 
feathers, with the shaft of primary 7 (I think) having the deepest coloration. 
If any feather would have red, it was that one. I figured this pattern 
indicated molt and diet, and I was guessing this was another case of cheap 
carotenoids gathered from the invasive honeysuckle that makes Cedar Waxwings’ 
tails orange. I got a young between-schools student to start looking at 
specimens in the major collections, but his life took a different turn (as did 
mine) and we never progressed on the project. We did prepare a fair number of 
spread-wing specimens here at Cornell. I look forward to seeing Jocelyn’s 
study results! 


I’m still working to get decent flight shots of the flickers, but I did 
manage a decent one of a sitting mixed-color female flicker the other day: 


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BS8Cccyw5xN9kcFCLpvAQdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink. 

Note that she has a very red primary, but no hint of gray throat or face. Also, 
the base of the feather is yellowish. This looks like diet and molt 
interactions, not genetics to me. 


Best,

Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan, Ph.D.
Instructor
Home Study Course in Bird Biology
Investigating Behavior: Courtship and Rivalry in Birds
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
Kjm2 AT cornell.edu
607-254-2452

Do you know about our other distance-learning opportunities? Visit 
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/courses and learn about our comprehensive Home 
Study Course in Bird Biology, our online course Investigating Behavior: 
Courtship and Rivalry in 
Birds, our Be A Better Birder 
tutorials, and our series 
of webinars. Purchase the 
webinars here. 



From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jocelyn Hudon 

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:24 AM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

Hi Jim,

I am working on a pigment paper showing that the aberrant red shafts are 
diet-related. The red color in some of these birds is redder than in pure 
“Red-shafted Flickers”! 


I am currently compiling instances of this type of variation to ascertain 
geographical extent/time of year and would appreciate being informed 
(privately) of other examples of this. Proper credits will be given. 


Many thanks,

Jocelyn

Jocelyn Hudon, Ph.D.
Curator of Ornithology
Royal Alberta Museum

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Tarolli 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:30 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

Hi everyone,
This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the 
Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, the 
Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th which 
had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. We 
were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 


On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or answers 
on the subject would be appreciated. 



Jim Tarolli
Baldwinsville, NY
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: David Sibley <sibleyguides AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:11:18 -0400
Hi Jim and all,

Ive been interested in this question for a long time, and can add a few 
observations here that may be useful. First, intergrades (as you would expect) 
are extremely variable, showing the complete range of intermediate plumage 
features; and the appearance of different parts of the bird is not always 
linked. That is, a bird can have wings close to Red-shafted but a face pattern 
more like Yellow-shafted, etc. In general, among the intergrades that I see in 
the northern Great Plains from Minnesota to Montana, wing and tail color is not 
a very reliable way to identify them. I always look for head pattern, which I 
use to confirm a suspected intergrade in a bird with wing color a little bit 
off", and it also reveals a lot of intergrades that I did not even suspect 
based on wing color. I dont think any records of intergrades (or Red-shafted) 
in the east should be accepted based on wing and tail color alone - only with 
careful study of the head pattern. 


One thing I dont see in intergrades is the contrasting mix of pure yellow and 
pure red flight feather colors shown in the Dave Wheeler photo from Derby Hill. 
A pattern like that suggests the red color was somehow switched on during 
molt, and therefore probably doesnt mean an intergrade. Intergrades typically 
show a more uniform and more subtle shading of orange color across all of the 
feathers. 


Im looking forward to seeing the results of Jocelyn Hudons research on this. 
In the meantime you might be interested in these older papers. 


Ingold, James L. and Charles M. Weise. 1985. Observations On Feather Color 
Variation in a Presumed Common Flicker intergrade. Journal of Field 
Ornithology. 56: 403-405 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/jfo/v056n04/p0403-p0405.pdf - 
Directly relevant to the Derby Hill birds, an otherwise typical male 
Yellow-shafted Flicker with a few contrasting red flight feathers was trapped 
and banded in Wisconsin in Feb 1976 and again in Feb 1977 and Feb 1978. The 
exact position of red feathers in the wings and tail was different in each of 
the three years (but symmetrical in each year). No other trace of introgression 
was found. They suspected the red color was diet-related. 


Test, F. H. 1969. Relation of wing and tail color of the woodpeckers Colaptes 
auratus and C. cafer to their food. Condor 71: 206-211. 
https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/condor/v071n02/p0206-p0211.pdf 
- studied captive flickers on a controlled diet, 


Short, Lester L. Jr. 1965. Hybridization in the Flickers (Colaptes) of North 
America. Bull. of the Am. Mus. of Nat. Hist. 129: 307-428 - a massive study of 
variation in flickers, finding an intergrade zone many hundreds of miles wide, 
and evidence of introgression from coast to coast. 


Good Birding, 

David Sibley
Concord, MA

On Jul 27, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Jim Tarolli  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by 
the Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, 
the Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th 
which had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. 
We were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 

> 
> On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

> 
> And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

> 
> Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or 
answers on the subject would be appreciated. 

> 
> 
> Jim Tarolli
> Baldwinsville, NY
> Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: karlson3 AT COMCAST.NET
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 19:28:59 +0000
Julian and all: 
the first three shots all look fine for a first summer White-rumped that has 
retained all of its juvenile wing coverts and flight feathers, and replaced its 
upperparts with somewhat typical White-rumped breeding feathers, including the 
dark centers and a few rust edges if you look real close. The head and bill 
shape (although a bit fine-tipped) are fine for White-rumped in these shots, as 
is the long rear body and wings that reach the tail tip, which is fine for some 
smaller male White-rumpeds whose wings do not extend past the tail. The pale 
legs could just be a by-product of low sexual hormones in this nobreeding bird, 
who probably did not go north to breed, with many post-breeding Semipalmated 
Sandpipers showing similar gray to pale straw-colored legs in August. I don't 
see any hybrid influence in this bird, and the heavily streaked upper breast 
and lack of flank streaking is fine for some first summer White-rumpeds that I 
have seen in NJ in June. The last shot is a weird posture that I dismissed from 
any evaluation pertinent to the ID due to the odd angle of the head going away 
and the outstretched neck. Kevin Karlson 


----- Original Message -----

From: "hough, julian"  
To: "Frontiers, ID"  
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36:06 PM 
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid 

I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking sandpiper I took in CT many July's 
ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if it is to the point that it is not 
identifiable (or maybe it is!) 


https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 

Thanks, 
Julian 
Julian Hough 
CT, 06519 
USA 
jrhough1 AT snet.net 
Blog: www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com 
website: www.JulianRHough.com 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 


Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: David Wheeler <tigger64 AT AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:24:25 -0400
I wondered why the red-shafted feathers are mostly in a block on a bird that is 
not otherwise unusual for yellow-shafted. The feathers in the block would be 
molted sequentially so they perhaps form a record (of sorts) of what the bird 
was eating while those feathers were being replaced. I assume known intergrades 
are usually a "sloppy mess" of characteristics. One could also ask: "what will 
it look like a year later?" ie, the birds in the photos could end up looking 
like normal yellow-shafted flickers after the next complete molt. What do true 
intergrades look like after a full molt? Do they end up as before or with a 
different pattern? 



We photographed many fly-by Flickers this spring and at least in my case, am 
just now going through all the photos. 



Dave Wheeler
N. Syracuse, NY
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Richard Klim <richard AT KLIM.CO.UK>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:52:14 +0100
Incidentally, wef 24 Jul 2014, BirdLife/IUCN/HBW split Red-shafted Flicker and 
Guatemalan Flicker from Yellow-shafted Flicker: 

www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/factsheet/22726414
www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/factsheet/22726420
www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/factsheet/22726404

Richard Klim
Somerset, UK

 

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jocelyn Hudon 

Sent: 28 July 2014 16:24
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

 

Hi Jim,

 

I am working on a pigment paper showing that the aberrant red shafts are 
diet-related. The red color in some of these birds is redder than in pure 
“Red-shafted Flickers”! 


 

I am currently compiling instances of this type of variation to ascertain 
geographical extent/time of year and would appreciate being informed 
(privately) of other examples of this. Proper credits will be given. 


 

Many thanks,

 

Jocelyn

 

Jocelyn Hudon, Ph.D.

Curator of Ornithology

Royal Alberta Museum 

 

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Tarolli 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:30 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

 

Hi everyone,

This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the 
Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, the 
Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th which 
had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. We 
were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 



On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 


And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 


Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or answers 
on the subject would be appreciated. 



Jim Tarolli

Baldwinsville, NY

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This 
message contains confidential information and is intended only for the 
individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not 
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. 



Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Northern Flickers - Intergrade?
From: Jocelyn Hudon <Jocelyn.Hudon AT GOV.AB.CA>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:24:01 +0000
Hi Jim,

I am working on a pigment paper showing that the aberrant red shafts are 
diet-related. The red color in some of these birds is redder than in pure 
“Red-shafted Flickers”! 


I am currently compiling instances of this type of variation to ascertain 
geographical extent/time of year and would appreciate being informed 
(privately) of other examples of this. Proper credits will be given. 


Many thanks,

Jocelyn

Jocelyn Hudon, Ph.D.
Curator of Ornithology
Royal Alberta Museum

From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Tarolli 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:30 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Northern Flickers - Intergrade?

Hi everyone,
This spring we had large numbers of Yellow-Shafted Northern Flickers go by the 
Derby Hill Hawk Watch in Mexico, NY. The two high counts, per Steve Kolbe, the 
Derby Hill Hawk counter were: April 13th which had 1,356; and April 20th which 
had 1,250. We had a couple other days that 150-200 were counted going by. We 
were able to photograph a few possible intergrades. In both of the following 
photos, the birds have some red shafts. But also, they both appear to have 
brown faces. In "The Sibley Guide to Birds" it shows the Intergrade as having a 
mostly gray face and males having a red malar stripe. 


On April 11th I photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jtarolli9/14783220613/ 

And on May 9th, Dave Wheeler photographed this bird: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krankykestrel/14381686110/ 

Are these intergrades? Or is it possibly diet related? Any thoughts or answers 
on the subject would be appreciated. 



Jim Tarolli
Baldwinsville, NY
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
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Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: julian hough <jrhough1 AT SNET.NET>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 08:15:31 -0700
Kevin,

Thanks for the reply. I should say that the legs are dark and not pale, a 
feature I omitted in my post. The paleness I think is a photo artifact and 
exacerbated by mud. 

Had they been in fact yellowish, it would have narrowed my identification 
choices considerably. 


The bird was slightly bigger than nearby Semi-ps and to my eyes, since I feel I 
know Least and Pectoral very well, it isn't either of those - structure/jizz, 
leg color and length and breast pattern is wrong for both and bill shape is 
particularly wrong for Pectoral. It could have some Pectoral in it, but I can't 
assign it confidently to any pure species I know. 


Best,

Julian

Julian Hough
New Haven, CT 06519
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com


________________________________
 From: Kevin J. McGowan 
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU 
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid
 


 
Pale legs suggest Pectoral or Least, as does the light streaks on the back.

Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan
Ithaca, NY 14850
Kjm2 AT cornell.edu
607-254-2452

Do you know about our other distance-learning opportunities? Visit 
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/coursesand learn about our comprehensive Home 
Study Course in Bird Biology, our online course InvestigatingBehavior: 
Courtship and Rivalry in Birds, our Be A Better Birder tutorials, and our 
series of webinars. Purchase the webinars here. 




From:NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Julian Hough 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid

I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking sandpiper I took in CT many July's 
ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if it is to the point that it is not 
identifiable (or maybe it is!) 



https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 


Thanks,

Julian

Julian Hough
CT, 06519 
USA
jrhough1 AT snet.net

Blog: www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com
website: www.JulianRHough.com
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html 
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html
Subject: Re: Strange (?) calidrid
From: "Kevin J. McGowan" <kjm2 AT CORNELL.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 13:02:31 +0000
Pale legs suggest Pectoral or Least, as does the light streaks on the back.

Kevin


Kevin J. McGowan
Ithaca, NY 14850
Kjm2 AT cornell.edu
607-254-2452

Do you know about our other distance-learning opportunities? Visit 
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/courses and learn about our comprehensive Home 
Study Course in Bird Biology, our online course Investigating Behavior: 
Courtship and Rivalry in 
Birds, our Be A Better Birder 
tutorials, and our series 
of webinars. Purchase the 
webinars here. 




From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification 
[mailto:BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU] On Behalf Of Julian Hough 

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 9:36 PM
To: BIRDWG01 AT LISTSERV.KSU.EDU
Subject: [BIRDWG01] Strange (?) calidrid

I have posted a few pix of a funny-looking sandpiper I took in CT many July's 
ago - I'd appreciate any comments, even if it is to the point that it is not 
identifiable (or maybe it is!) 



https://naturescapeimages.wordpress.com/2014/07/28/confusing-calidrid-milford-ct-july-16th-2006/ 


Thanks,

Julian

Julian Hough
CT, 06519
USA
jrhough1 AT snet.net

Blog: 
www.naturescapeimages.wordpress.com 

website: www.JulianRHough.com
Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html

Archives: http://listserv.ksu.edu/archives/birdwg01.html