3 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Mike O'Keeffe ]
3 Jul Re: Geoff Oliver [bom ]
3 Jul Re: Geoff Oliver [David Quin ]
3 Jul Re: Geoff Oliver ["Fitzpatrick, Dara" ]
3 Jul Re: Geoff Oliver [Peter Wolstenholme ]
3 Jul Geoff Oliver [Eamonn ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern ["jhobbs AT iol.ie" ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Seamus Enright ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Mike Hunt ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [James ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern ["jhobbs AT iol.ie" ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Paul & Norma Moore ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern ["jhobbs AT iol.ie" ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Eamonn ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Eamonn ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Mark Carmody ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern ["jhobbs AT iol.ie" ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Kieran Fahy ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Eamonn ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Kieran Fahy ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Killian Mullarney ]
2 Jul Re: Blennerville Audouins [Mike O'Keeffe ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [ ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern ["jhobbs AT iol.ie" ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern [Eamonn ]
2 Jul Re: Caspian Tern ["Fitzpatrick, Dara" ]
2 Jul Caspian Tern [Edward Carty ]
2 Jul Re: Blennerville Audouins [Kieran Fahy ]
2 Jul Re: Blennerville Audouins [Killian Mullarney ]
2 Jul Re: Blennerville Audouins [Eamonn ]
2 Jul Re: Blennerville Audouins [Killian Mullarney ]
2 Jul Blennerville Audouins [Edward Carty ]
1 Jul Re: Stormin Norman [Éanna Ó Floinn ]
1 Jul Re: ENJOY [jez simms ]
1 Jul Re: Stormin Norman [Eugene ARCHER ]
1 Jul Caspian Tern [irishbirdnews ]
1 Jul Re: ENJOY [Mike O'Keeffe ]
1 Jul ENJOY [jez simms ]
30 Jun Not bird related in the slightest either ["jhobbs AT iol.ie" ]
30 Jun Non birding topic [Sean Cronin ]
30 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Breffni Martin ]
30 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Ian Forsyth ]
30 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Éanna Ó Floinn ]
30 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Coilin MacLochlainn ]
30 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Breffni Martin ]
30 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Éanna Ó Floinn ]
30 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Coilin MacLochlainn ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Breffni Martin ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Coilin MacLochlainn ]
29 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Breffni Martin ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Éanna Ó Floinn ]
29 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Mike O'Keeffe ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Mike O'Keeffe ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Éanna Ó Floinn ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Éanna Ó Floinn ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Alan Horan ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Robert Vaughan ]
29 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Breffni Martin ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Tony Kavanagh ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Éanna Ó Floinn ]
29 Jun Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker [Tony Kavanagh ]
29 Jun Great Spotted Woodpecker [Éanna Ó Floinn ]
29 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Paul Walsh ]
29 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Paul Walsh ]
29 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Dermot McCabe ]
28 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Harry Hussey ]
28 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Eugene ARCHER ]
28 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Robert Vaughan ]
28 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Paul & Andrea Kelly ]
28 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Julian Wyllie ]
28 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Eamonn O'Donnell ]
27 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Harry Hussey ]
27 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Mike Hunt ]
27 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Michael O'Keeffe ]
27 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [Phil Davis ]
27 Jun Re: rare breeding birds [richard mundy ]
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Mike O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:00:10 +0100
There was one in Brandon Bay, Kerry in the mid to late 1980's. Either the
record was never submitted or it was removed.
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Killian Mullarney"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
> One was reported from Duncannon in March. The observer subsequently
> withdrew the claim on the basis that the view was very brief and he may
> have made a mistake.
>
> Derravaragh bird in 1984 was found by Bruce Carrick. I'm pretty sure Pat
> Smiddy found the Ballymacoda bird but I'm sure others on the list will be
> able to fill those gaps in your record.
>
> Surprisingly, the species has still to be recorded in Wexford.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
>
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:53 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
>> Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
>> jhobbs AT iol.ie
>> Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>>
>> Ed
>> These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree
>> with your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
>>
>> 1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16 2.
>> 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3. 1988
>> 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
>> Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
>> 4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
>> 5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
>> 6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
>> 6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
>> 7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
>>
>> I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
>> who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
>> Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
>> joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Original Message:
>> -----------------
>> From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
>> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
>> Subject: Caspian Tern
>>
>>
>> All,
>> It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
>> mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
>> records since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the
>> species is now much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying
>> ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
>> Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
>> am............Ed.
>>
>> The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
>> 1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
>>
>>
>>
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>
Subject: Re: Geoff Oliver
From: bom <bomah AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:21:33 +0100
Here he is!!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fancydress08/3684835836/
He asks for visitors to arrive in nurse's uniform to cheer him up!
bom
Eamonn wrote:
> Hi, Steve Wing has asked me to post this.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Geoff suffered a heart attack sometime over the last few days and is
> currently in Galway hospital recovering from having a stent inserted. He
> was chatting up the nurse when I spoke to him earlier and was in good
> form. He is going to need, as I very well know, a lot of rest and help
> over the coming weeks! I am having difficulties with emailing the IBN so
> could I ask you to post this news for me? Many thank,"
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
#####################################################################################
> This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
> by MailMarshal
>
#####################################################################################
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.3/2216 - Release Date: 07/03/09
05:53:00
>
Subject: Re: Geoff Oliver
From: David Quin <dsquin AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:23:37 +0100
I, too, wish him "a speedy recovery from West Cork Birdwatch", but shouldn't
we do something about WCB if it has such a serious effect on its members?
On 03/07/2009 10:49, "Peter Wolstenholme" wrote:
> If anyone goes to see him, please give him all the best wishes for a speedy
> recovery from West Cork Birdwatch. cheers pete
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eamonn"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 8:27 AM
> Subject: Geoff Oliver
>
>
> Hi, Steve Wing has asked me to post this.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Geoff suffered a heart attack sometime over the last few days and is
> currently in Galway hospital recovering from having a stent inserted. He
> was chatting up the nurse when I spoke to him earlier and was in good
> form. He is going to need, as I very well know, a lot of rest and help
> over the coming weeks! I am having difficulties with emailing the IBN so
> could I ask you to post this news for me? Many thank,"
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
##############################################################################
> #######
> This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
> by MailMarshal
>
##############################################################################
> #######
SwiftWrite
15a Idrone Terrace
Blackrock, Co Dublin
Landline: (+353) 01 2832880
Mobile: (+353) 086 607 4863
Email: dsquin AT eircom.net
Website: www.swiftediting.ie
Subject: Re: Geoff Oliver
From: "Fitzpatrick, Dara" <d.fitzpatrick AT UCC.IE>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:07:18 +0100
I spoke to Geoff earlier and besides the fact that he hasn't had a fag
in 2 days (45 year record) he's doing fine and should make a full
recovery. A drip with red wine to simulate a blood transfusion is being
smuggled in later.
Regards,
Dara
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Peter Wolstenholme
Sent: 03 July 2009 10:50
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Geoff Oliver
If anyone goes to see him, please give him all the best wishes for a
speedy
recovery from West Cork Birdwatch. cheers pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eamonn"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: Geoff Oliver
Hi, Steve Wing has asked me to post this.
"Geoff suffered a heart attack sometime over the last few days and is
currently in Galway hospital recovering from having a stent inserted. He
was chatting up the nurse when I spoke to him earlier and was in good
form. He is going to need, as I very well know, a lot of rest and help
over the coming weeks! I am having difficulties with emailing the IBN so
could I ask you to post this news for me? Many thank,"
Steve
########################################################################
#############
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
by MailMarshal
########################################################################
#############
Subject: Re: Geoff Oliver
From: Peter Wolstenholme <wolsten AT INDIGO.IE>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 10:49:32 +0100
If anyone goes to see him, please give him all the best wishes for a speedy
recovery from West Cork Birdwatch. cheers pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eamonn"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: Geoff Oliver
Hi, Steve Wing has asked me to post this.
"Geoff suffered a heart attack sometime over the last few days and is
currently in Galway hospital recovering from having a stent inserted. He
was chatting up the nurse when I spoke to him earlier and was in good
form. He is going to need, as I very well know, a lot of rest and help
over the coming weeks! I am having difficulties with emailing the IBN so
could I ask you to post this news for me? Many thank,"
Steve
#####################################################################################
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
by MailMarshal
#####################################################################################
Subject: Geoff Oliver
From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 08:27:01 +0100
Hi, Steve Wing has asked me to post this.
"Geoff suffered a heart attack sometime over the last few days and is
currently in Galway hospital recovering from having a stent inserted. He
was chatting up the nurse when I spoke to him earlier and was in good
form. He is going to need, as I very well know, a lot of rest and help
over the coming weeks! I am having difficulties with emailing the IBN so
could I ask you to post this news for me? Many thank,"
Steve
#####################################################################################
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
by MailMarshal
#####################################################################################
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie" <jhobbs@IOL.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:32:56 -0400
Thanks Seamus, nice one.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Seamus Enright seamusenright06 AT EIRCOM.NET
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:15:13 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Gentlemen,
The Blackrock Caspian Tern in August 2001 was found by I believe a Dutch
birder U. Lotberg who unfortunately was not in contact with any local
birders and it was the following day when we heard about it, by which time
it had inevitably moved on, thankfully this time due to the quick and
persistent distribution of the news by Ed most local birders were able to
see the Blennerville bird before it moved off as the tide went out
Nice one Ed ta again
Rgs
Seamus
-----Original Message-----
>From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
jhobbs AT iol.ie
Sent: 02 July 2009 17:23
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Thanks Paul and great to get the extra details which helps convey the
ambience of the event. That just leaves the Kerry bird in 2001?
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
>From: Paul & Norma Moore Paulmoore01 AT EIRCOM.NET
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:03:11 -0700
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Joe et al,
The Rosscarberry Caspian was found by Russ Heselden from a moving bus,
several people went for it that evening but it wasn't seen again.
The Ballycotton/Ballymacoda bird was found by Noel Linehan originally on
the friday evening. It was not seen by anyone else that evening as quite a
few Cork birders were in west Cork at a wedding of two Cork birders. The
following morning the bird was relocated at Ballymacoda by John Coveney and
I think Eugene Archer. It was seen by a number of people during the day
including the newlyweds (it was a tick for the bride), indeed there is in
existance some video footage of a conversation going something like :- RC
Yeah it's a good way to start a marriage
JC If this is the highlight so far. . . .
The Ballymacoda bird of 2000 was found by Pat Smiddy, I think nobody
else
found out about it untill Irish birds appeared a year or so later, so it's
safe to say it wasn't looked for by anyone else.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
>From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Ed
These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree with
your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2. 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317
3. 1988 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
>From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is now
much
rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than Gull-billed
Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Seamus Enright <seamusenright06 AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:15:13 +0100
Gentlemen,
The Blackrock Caspian Tern in August 2001 was found by I believe a Dutch
birder U. Lotberg who unfortunately was not in contact with any local
birders and it was the following day when we heard about it, by which time
it had inevitably moved on, thankfully this time due to the quick and
persistent distribution of the news by Ed most local birders were able to
see the Blennerville bird before it moved off as the tide went out
Nice one Ed ta again
Rgs
Seamus
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
jhobbs AT iol.ie
Sent: 02 July 2009 17:23
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Thanks Paul and great to get the extra details which helps convey the
ambience of the event. That just leaves the Kerry bird in 2001?
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Paul & Norma Moore Paulmoore01 AT EIRCOM.NET
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:03:11 -0700
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Joe et al,
The Rosscarberry Caspian was found by Russ Heselden from a moving bus,
several people went for it that evening but it wasn't seen again.
The Ballycotton/Ballymacoda bird was found by Noel Linehan originally on
the friday evening. It was not seen by anyone else that evening as quite a
few Cork birders were in west Cork at a wedding of two Cork birders. The
following morning the bird was relocated at Ballymacoda by John Coveney and
I think Eugene Archer. It was seen by a number of people during the day
including the newlyweds (it was a tick for the bride), indeed there is in
existance some video footage of a conversation going something like :- RC
Yeah it's a good way to start a marriage
JC If this is the highlight so far. . . .
The Ballymacoda bird of 2000 was found by Pat Smiddy, I think nobody
else
found out about it untill Irish birds appeared a year or so later, so it's
safe to say it wasn't looked for by anyone else.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
>From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Ed
These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree with
your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2. 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317
3. 1988 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
>From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is now
much
rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than Gull-billed
Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Mike Hunt <bulto666 AT YAHOO.COM>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:34:03 -0700
______
Now James, have you stopped taking your tablets again?
________________________________
From: James
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 7:17:22 PM
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
"The Rosscarberry Caspian was found by Russ Heselden from a moving bus"
Sounds like a classic tongue-twister, cheaper than the breathalyser for
detecting drunk drivers, along with "Peter Piper Picked a Pick of Pickled
Pepper" and "The Leith Police dismisseth Us"!
Or perhaps it is a code used by spies, similar to "The weather is uncommonly
mild in Vladivostock for the time of year."
Come to think of it, "The Ballycotton/Ballymacoda bird was found by Noel
Linehan originally on the Friday evening" is not too far behind in this
respect although could do with a better ending.
P.E. DANT
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Paul
& Norma Moore
Sent: 02 July 2009 17:03
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Joe et al,
The Rosscarberry Caspian was found by Russ Heselden from a moving bus,
several people went for it that evening but it wasn't seen again.
The Ballycotton/Ballymacoda bird was found by Noel Linehan originally on
the friday evening. It was not seen by anyone else that evening as quite a
few Cork birders were in west Cork at a wedding of two Cork birders. The
following morning the bird was relocated at Ballymacoda by John Coveney and
I think Eugene Archer. It was seen by a number of people during the day
including the newlyweds (it was a tick for the bride), indeed there is in
existance some video footage of a conversation going something like :- RC
Yeah it's a good way to start a marriage JC If this is the highlight so far.
. . .
The Ballymacoda bird of 2000 was found by Pat Smiddy, I think nobody else
found out about it untill Irish birds appeared a year or so later, so it's
safe to say it wasn't looked for by anyone else.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Ed
These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree with
your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16 2.
1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3. 1988
07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596 5. 1998
19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101 7. 2001 18-Aug.
Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists........the species is now
much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than
Gull-billed Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: James <jimrippey AT TISCALI.CO.UK>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:17:22 +0100
"The Rosscarberry Caspian was found by Russ Heselden from a moving bus"
Sounds like a classic tongue-twister, cheaper than the breathalyser for
detecting drunk drivers, along with "Peter Piper Picked a Pick of Pickled
Pepper" and "The Leith Police dismisseth Us"!
Or perhaps it is a code used by spies, similar to "The weather is uncommonly
mild in Vladivostock for the time of year."
Come to think of it, "The Ballycotton/Ballymacoda bird was found by Noel
Linehan originally on the Friday evening" is not too far behind in this
respect although could do with a better ending.
P.E. DANT
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Paul
& Norma Moore
Sent: 02 July 2009 17:03
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Joe et al,
The Rosscarberry Caspian was found by Russ Heselden from a moving bus,
several people went for it that evening but it wasn't seen again.
The Ballycotton/Ballymacoda bird was found by Noel Linehan originally on
the friday evening. It was not seen by anyone else that evening as quite a
few Cork birders were in west Cork at a wedding of two Cork birders. The
following morning the bird was relocated at Ballymacoda by John Coveney and
I think Eugene Archer. It was seen by a number of people during the day
including the newlyweds (it was a tick for the bride), indeed there is in
existance some video footage of a conversation going something like :- RC
Yeah it's a good way to start a marriage JC If this is the highlight so far.
. . .
The Ballymacoda bird of 2000 was found by Pat Smiddy, I think nobody else
found out about it untill Irish birds appeared a year or so later, so it's
safe to say it wasn't looked for by anyone else.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Ed
These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree with
your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16 2.
1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3. 1988
07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596 5. 1998
19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101 7. 2001 18-Aug.
Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is now
much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than
Gull-billed Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie" <jhobbs@IOL.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:23:25 -0400
Thanks Paul and great to get the extra details which helps convey the
ambience of the event. That just leaves the Kerry bird in 2001?
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Paul & Norma Moore Paulmoore01 AT EIRCOM.NET
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:03:11 -0700
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Joe et al,
The Rosscarberry Caspian was found by Russ Heselden from a moving bus,
several people went for it that evening but it wasn't seen again.
The Ballycotton/Ballymacoda bird was found by Noel Linehan originally on
the friday evening. It was not seen by anyone else that evening as quite a
few Cork birders were in west Cork at a wedding of two Cork birders. The
following morning the bird was relocated at Ballymacoda by John Coveney and
I think Eugene Archer. It was seen by a number of people during the day
including the newlyweds (it was a tick for the bride), indeed there is in
existance some video footage of a conversation going something like :- RC
Yeah it's a good way to start a marriage
JC If this is the highlight so far. . . .
The Ballymacoda bird of 2000 was found by Pat Smiddy, I think nobody
else
found out about it untill Irish birds appeared a year or so later, so it's
safe to say it wasn't looked for by anyone else.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
>From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Ed
These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree with
your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2. 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317
3. 1988 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
>From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is now
much
rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than Gull-billed
Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Paul & Norma Moore <Paulmoore01 AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:03:11 -0700
Joe et al,
The Rosscarberry Caspian was found by Russ Heselden from a moving bus,
several people went for it that evening but it wasn't seen again.
The Ballycotton/Ballymacoda bird was found by Noel Linehan originally on
the friday evening. It was not seen by anyone else that evening as quite a
few Cork birders were in west Cork at a wedding of two Cork birders. The
following morning the bird was relocated at Ballymacoda by John Coveney and
I think Eugene Archer. It was seen by a number of people during the day
including the newlyweds (it was a tick for the bride), indeed there is in
existance some video footage of a conversation going something like :- RC
Yeah it's a good way to start a marriage
JC If this is the highlight so far. . . .
The Ballymacoda bird of 2000 was found by Pat Smiddy, I think nobody else
found out about it untill Irish birds appeared a year or so later, so it's
safe to say it wasn't looked for by anyone else.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Ed
These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree with
your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2. 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317
3. 1988 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is now
much
rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than Gull-billed
Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie" <jhobbs@IOL.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:36:21 -0400
Kieran, thanks for the offer but no need.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Kieran Fahy kieranfahy AT EIRCOM.NET
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:29:41 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Peter Leonard ... good birder !!
And didn't Russ Hesselden find the Roscarbery Caspian ?
Kieran
PS - Joe - all of this info is probably in the relevant IBR's !! - if you
want, I can send you the correct references ?
-----Original Message-----
>From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Eamonn
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:11
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
I think the first person to actually see the first Caspian Tern at
Ballycotton was a guy whose surname was Leonard. It was so long ago and
I was only a child at the time so I don't remember his first name. I
know a few birders went through the reedbed together to try to find the
Stilt Sand (hey, there's a coincidence!) but I think he was the first to
set eyes on it. I don't know who first realized there were two. It
definitely wasn't me.
Happy days indeed.
Do any of ye remember the breeding Nightjar twitch the night before?
It was hilarious.
BBB
-----Original Message-----
>From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Killian Mullarney
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:05
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
One was reported from Duncannon in March. The observer subsequently
withdrew the claim on the basis that the view was very brief and he may
have
made a mistake.
Derravaragh bird in 1984 was found by Bruce Carrick. I'm pretty sure
Pat
Smiddy found the Ballymacoda bird but I'm sure others on the list will
be
able to fill those gaps in your record.
Surprisingly, the species has still to be recorded in Wexford.
--------------------------------------------------
>From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:53 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
> Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf
Of
> jhobbs AT iol.ie
> Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> Ed
> These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree
> with your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
>
> 1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2.
> 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3.
1988
> 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
> Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
> 4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
> 5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
> 6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
> 6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
> 7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
>
> I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can
remember
> who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
> Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to
learn.
> joe
>
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Caspian Tern
>
>
> All,
> It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the
bird
> mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
> records since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the
> species is now much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying
> ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
> Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far
this
> am............Ed.
>
> The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2)
1988,Cork
> 1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com - Microsoft(r) Exchange solutions from a leading provider
-
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:35:13 +0100
Indeed it is. Perhaps the fact that I remember half his name means I'm
only half senile!
BBB
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Mark Carmody
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:31
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
that is probably Peter Leonard you are referring to Bob.
regards
Mark
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Eamonn
wrote:
> I think the first person to actually see the first Caspian Tern at
> Ballycotton was a guy whose surname was Leonard. It was so long ago
and
> I was only a child at the time so I don't remember his first name. I
> know a few birders went through the reedbed together to try to find
the
> Stilt Sand (hey, there's a coincidence!) but I think he was the first
to
> set eyes on it. I don't know who first realized there were two. It
> definitely wasn't me.
>
> Happy days indeed.
>
> Do any of ye remember the breeding Nightjar twitch the night before?
> It was hilarious.
>
> BBB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf
Of
> Killian Mullarney
> Sent: 02 July 2009 14:05
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> One was reported from Duncannon in March. The observer subsequently
> withdrew the claim on the basis that the view was very brief and he
may
> have
> made a mistake.
>
> Derravaragh bird in 1984 was found by Bruce Carrick. I'm pretty sure
> Pat
> Smiddy found the Ballymacoda bird but I'm sure others on the list will
> be
> able to fill those gaps in your record.
>
> Surprisingly, the species has still to be recorded in Wexford.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
>
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:53 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> > Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf
> Of
> > jhobbs AT iol.ie
> > Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> > Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
> >
> > Ed
> > These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to
agree
>
> > with your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
> >
> > 1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report
1(7):16
> 2.
> > 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3.
> 1988
> > 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
> > Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
> > 4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
> > 5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
> > 6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
> > 6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
> > 7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
> >
> > I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can
> remember
> > who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
> > Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to
> learn.
> > joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
> > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> > Subject: Caspian Tern
> >
> >
> > All,
> > It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the
> bird
> > mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
> > records since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the
> > species is now much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying
> > ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
> > Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far
> this
> > am............Ed.
> >
> > The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2)
> 1988,Cork
> > 1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web.com - Microsoft(r) Exchange solutions from a leading
provider
> -
> > http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
> >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > DISCLAIMER
> >
> >
> > If you have received this message in error, please contact the
sender
> > immediately by return e-mail and notify the sender and then delete
> this
> > message (including any attachments) from your system. This
> communication
> > and any attachments contain information which is confidential and
may
> also
> > be legally privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended
> > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
> that
> > any form of disclosure, distribution, copying or use of this
> communication
> > or the information in it or in any attachments is strictly
prohibited
> and
> > may be unlawful.
> >
> >
> > E-mail communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error
free,
> as
> > information could be intercepted, corrupted, amended, lost,
destroyed,
>
> > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Gilead does not
accept
> > liability for any such matters or their consequences. Anyone who
> > communicates with Gilead by e-mail is taken to accept the risks in
> doing
> > so. Gilead has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any
> > attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However,
Gilead
> > cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of
> viruses
> > and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before
> opening
> > any attachment.
> >
> > Gilead Sciences Limited . Registered as a limited company in Ireland
.
>
> > Registered number
> > 259755
> > Registered office: Unit 13 . Stillorgan Industrial Park . Blackrock
.
> Co
> > Dublin . Ireland . Telephone: +353 21 4825500
> > . Fax: +353 21 4825518
> >
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>
>
> >
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> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date:
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>
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:33:20 +0100
I did indeed see all three the day after I ticked Nightjar at a nest
site (those were the days !!). I also saw the Stilt Sand.
BBB
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
jhobbs AT iol.ie
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:30
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Eamonn
Actually that was one of the few Caspian Tern records where I was aware
of
the finder. I am open to correction but I believe Peter Leonard found
the
first bird at the east end of Ballycotton. They lost it and while
searching
for it again Aidan Kelly found the 2nd bird at the lake. Aidan also
found a
Least Sandpiper on the same day. I presume you saw all three? I think
that
is what is called a Red Letter Day!
If any one ever gets the chance ask Eric to recount his experience
twitching the Ballycotton Caspian Terns. It is a good 'un.
For a first hand account see:
Leonard, P. 1990. A Purple Patch at Ballycotton, August 1988. Cork Bird
Report 1989 pp.79-84
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Eamonn eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:11:19 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
I think the first person to actually see the first Caspian Tern at
Ballycotton was a guy whose surname was Leonard. It was so long ago and
I was only a child at the time so I don't remember his first name. I
know a few birders went through the reedbed together to try to find the
Stilt Sand (hey, there's a coincidence!) but I think he was the first to
set eyes on it. I don't know who first realized there were two. It
definitely wasn't me.
Happy days indeed.
Do any of ye remember the breeding Nightjar twitch the night before?
It was hilarious.
BBB
-----Original Message-----
>From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Killian Mullarney
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:05
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
One was reported from Duncannon in March. The observer subsequently
withdrew the claim on the basis that the view was very brief and he may
have
made a mistake.
Derravaragh bird in 1984 was found by Bruce Carrick. I'm pretty sure
Pat
Smiddy found the Ballymacoda bird but I'm sure others on the list will
be
able to fill those gaps in your record.
Surprisingly, the species has still to be recorded in Wexford.
--------------------------------------------------
>From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:53 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
> Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf
Of
> jhobbs AT iol.ie
> Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> Ed
> These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree
> with your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
>
> 1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2.
> 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3.
1988
> 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
> Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
> 4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
> 5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
> 6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
> 6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
> 7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
>
> I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can
remember
> who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
> Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to
learn.
> joe
>
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Caspian Tern
>
>
> All,
> It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the
bird
> mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
> records since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the
> species is now much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying
> ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
> Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far
this
> am............Ed.
>
> The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2)
1988,Cork
> 1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com - Microsoft(r) Exchange solutions from a leading provider
-
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> DISCLAIMER
>
>
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opening
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Mark Carmody <dr.carmo AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:30:34 +0100
that is probably Peter Leonard you are referring to Bob.
regards
Mark
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Eamonn wrote:
> I think the first person to actually see the first Caspian Tern at
> Ballycotton was a guy whose surname was Leonard. It was so long ago and
> I was only a child at the time so I don't remember his first name. I
> know a few birders went through the reedbed together to try to find the
> Stilt Sand (hey, there's a coincidence!) but I think he was the first to
> set eyes on it. I don't know who first realized there were two. It
> definitely wasn't me.
>
> Happy days indeed.
>
> Do any of ye remember the breeding Nightjar twitch the night before?
> It was hilarious.
>
> BBB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
> Killian Mullarney
> Sent: 02 July 2009 14:05
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> One was reported from Duncannon in March. The observer subsequently
> withdrew the claim on the basis that the view was very brief and he may
> have
> made a mistake.
>
> Derravaragh bird in 1984 was found by Bruce Carrick. I'm pretty sure
> Pat
> Smiddy found the Ballymacoda bird but I'm sure others on the list will
> be
> able to fill those gaps in your record.
>
> Surprisingly, the species has still to be recorded in Wexford.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
>
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:53 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> > Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf
> Of
> > jhobbs AT iol.ie
> > Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> > Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
> >
> > Ed
> > These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree
>
> > with your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
> >
> > 1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
> 2.
> > 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3.
> 1988
> > 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
> > Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
> > 4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
> > 5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
> > 6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
> > 6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
> > 7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
> >
> > I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can
> remember
> > who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
> > Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to
> learn.
> > joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
> > Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
> > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> > Subject: Caspian Tern
> >
> >
> > All,
> > It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the
> bird
> > mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
> > records since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the
> > species is now much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying
> > ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
> > Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far
> this
> > am............Ed.
> >
> > The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2)
> 1988,Cork
> > 1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web.com - Microsoft(r) Exchange solutions from a leading provider
> -
> > http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > DISCLAIMER
> >
> >
> > If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender
> > immediately by return e-mail and notify the sender and then delete
> this
> > message (including any attachments) from your system. This
> communication
> > and any attachments contain information which is confidential and may
> also
> > be legally privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended
> > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
> that
> > any form of disclosure, distribution, copying or use of this
> communication
> > or the information in it or in any attachments is strictly prohibited
> and
> > may be unlawful.
> >
> >
> > E-mail communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free,
> as
> > information could be intercepted, corrupted, amended, lost, destroyed,
>
> > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Gilead does not accept
> > liability for any such matters or their consequences. Anyone who
> > communicates with Gilead by e-mail is taken to accept the risks in
> doing
> > so. Gilead has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any
> > attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, Gilead
> > cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of
> viruses
> > and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before
> opening
> > any attachment.
> >
> > Gilead Sciences Limited . Registered as a limited company in Ireland .
>
> > Registered number
> > 259755
> > Registered office: Unit 13 . Stillorgan Industrial Park . Blackrock .
> Co
> > Dublin . Ireland . Telephone: +353 21 4825500
> > . Fax: +353 21 4825518
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date:
> 07/01/09
> > 18:07:00
> >
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--
MY PHOTOS: http://flickr.com/photos/drcarmo/
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie" <jhobbs@IOL.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:29:56 -0400
Eamonn
Actually that was one of the few Caspian Tern records where I was aware of
the finder. I am open to correction but I believe Peter Leonard found the
first bird at the east end of Ballycotton. They lost it and while searching
for it again Aidan Kelly found the 2nd bird at the lake. Aidan also found a
Least Sandpiper on the same day. I presume you saw all three? I think that
is what is called a Red Letter Day!
If any one ever gets the chance ask Eric to recount his experience
twitching the Ballycotton Caspian Terns. It is a good 'un.
For a first hand account see:
Leonard, P. 1990. A Purple Patch at Ballycotton, August 1988. Cork Bird
Report 1989 pp.79-84
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Eamonn eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:11:19 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
I think the first person to actually see the first Caspian Tern at
Ballycotton was a guy whose surname was Leonard. It was so long ago and
I was only a child at the time so I don't remember his first name. I
know a few birders went through the reedbed together to try to find the
Stilt Sand (hey, there's a coincidence!) but I think he was the first to
set eyes on it. I don't know who first realized there were two. It
definitely wasn't me.
Happy days indeed.
Do any of ye remember the breeding Nightjar twitch the night before?
It was hilarious.
BBB
-----Original Message-----
>From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Killian Mullarney
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:05
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
One was reported from Duncannon in March. The observer subsequently
withdrew the claim on the basis that the view was very brief and he may
have
made a mistake.
Derravaragh bird in 1984 was found by Bruce Carrick. I'm pretty sure
Pat
Smiddy found the Ballymacoda bird but I'm sure others on the list will
be
able to fill those gaps in your record.
Surprisingly, the species has still to be recorded in Wexford.
--------------------------------------------------
>From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:53 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
> Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf
Of
> jhobbs AT iol.ie
> Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> Ed
> These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree
> with your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
>
> 1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2.
> 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3.
1988
> 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
> Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
> 4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
> 5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
> 6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
> 6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
> 7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
>
> I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can
remember
> who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
> Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to
learn.
> joe
>
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Caspian Tern
>
>
> All,
> It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the
bird
> mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
> records since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the
> species is now much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying
> ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
> Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far
this
> am............Ed.
>
> The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2)
1988,Cork
> 1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com - Microsoft(r) Exchange solutions from a leading provider
-
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> DISCLAIMER
>
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender
> immediately by return e-mail and notify the sender and then delete
this
> message (including any attachments) from your system. This
communication
> and any attachments contain information which is confidential and may
also
> be legally privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that
> any form of disclosure, distribution, copying or use of this
communication
> or the information in it or in any attachments is strictly prohibited
and
> may be unlawful.
>
>
> E-mail communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free,
as
> information could be intercepted, corrupted, amended, lost, destroyed,
> arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Gilead does not accept
> liability for any such matters or their consequences. Anyone who
> communicates with Gilead by e-mail is taken to accept the risks in
doing
> so. Gilead has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any
> attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, Gilead
> cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of
viruses
> and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before
opening
> any attachment.
>
> Gilead Sciences Limited . Registered as a limited company in Ireland .
> Registered number
> 259755
> Registered office: Unit 13 . Stillorgan Industrial Park . Blackrock .
Co
> Dublin . Ireland . Telephone: +353 21 4825500
> . Fax: +353 21 4825518
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date:
07/01/09
> 18:07:00
>
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Kieran Fahy <kieranfahy AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:29:41 +0100
Peter Leonard ... good birder !!
And didn't Russ Hesselden find the Roscarbery Caspian ?
Kieran
PS - Joe - all of this info is probably in the relevant IBR's !! - if you
want, I can send you the correct references ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Eamonn
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:11
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
I think the first person to actually see the first Caspian Tern at
Ballycotton was a guy whose surname was Leonard. It was so long ago and
I was only a child at the time so I don't remember his first name. I
know a few birders went through the reedbed together to try to find the
Stilt Sand (hey, there's a coincidence!) but I think he was the first to
set eyes on it. I don't know who first realized there were two. It
definitely wasn't me.
Happy days indeed.
Do any of ye remember the breeding Nightjar twitch the night before?
It was hilarious.
BBB
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Killian Mullarney
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:05
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
One was reported from Duncannon in March. The observer subsequently
withdrew the claim on the basis that the view was very brief and he may
have
made a mistake.
Derravaragh bird in 1984 was found by Bruce Carrick. I'm pretty sure
Pat
Smiddy found the Ballymacoda bird but I'm sure others on the list will
be
able to fill those gaps in your record.
Surprisingly, the species has still to be recorded in Wexford.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:53 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
> Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf
Of
> jhobbs AT iol.ie
> Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> Ed
> These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree
> with your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
>
> 1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2.
> 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3.
1988
> 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
> Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
> 4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
> 5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
> 6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
> 6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
> 7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
>
> I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can
remember
> who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
> Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to
learn.
> joe
>
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Caspian Tern
>
>
> All,
> It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the
bird
> mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
> records since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the
> species is now much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying
> ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
> Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far
this
> am............Ed.
>
> The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2)
1988,Cork
> 1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com - Microsoft(r) Exchange solutions from a leading provider
-
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> DISCLAIMER
>
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender
> immediately by return e-mail and notify the sender and then delete
this
> message (including any attachments) from your system. This
communication
> and any attachments contain information which is confidential and may
also
> be legally privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that
> any form of disclosure, distribution, copying or use of this
communication
> or the information in it or in any attachments is strictly prohibited
and
> may be unlawful.
>
>
> E-mail communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free,
as
> information could be intercepted, corrupted, amended, lost, destroyed,
> arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Gilead does not accept
> liability for any such matters or their consequences. Anyone who
> communicates with Gilead by e-mail is taken to accept the risks in
doing
> so. Gilead has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any
> attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, Gilead
> cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of
viruses
> and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before
opening
> any attachment.
>
> Gilead Sciences Limited . Registered as a limited company in Ireland .
> Registered number
> 259755
> Registered office: Unit 13 . Stillorgan Industrial Park . Blackrock .
Co
> Dublin . Ireland . Telephone: +353 21 4825500
> . Fax: +353 21 4825518
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
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07/01/09
> 18:07:00
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:11:19 +0100
I think the first person to actually see the first Caspian Tern at
Ballycotton was a guy whose surname was Leonard. It was so long ago and
I was only a child at the time so I don't remember his first name. I
know a few birders went through the reedbed together to try to find the
Stilt Sand (hey, there's a coincidence!) but I think he was the first to
set eyes on it. I don't know who first realized there were two. It
definitely wasn't me.
Happy days indeed.
Do any of ye remember the breeding Nightjar twitch the night before?
It was hilarious.
BBB
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Killian Mullarney
Sent: 02 July 2009 14:05
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
One was reported from Duncannon in March. The observer subsequently
withdrew the claim on the basis that the view was very brief and he may
have
made a mistake.
Derravaragh bird in 1984 was found by Bruce Carrick. I'm pretty sure
Pat
Smiddy found the Ballymacoda bird but I'm sure others on the list will
be
able to fill those gaps in your record.
Surprisingly, the species has still to be recorded in Wexford.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:53 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
> Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf
Of
> jhobbs AT iol.ie
> Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> Ed
> These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree
> with your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
>
> 1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2.
> 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3.
1988
> 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
> Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
> 4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
> 5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
> 6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
> 6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
> 7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
>
> I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can
remember
> who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
> Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to
learn.
> joe
>
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Caspian Tern
>
>
> All,
> It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the
bird
> mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
> records since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the
> species is now much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying
> ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
> Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far
this
> am............Ed.
>
> The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2)
1988,Cork
> 1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Kieran Fahy <kieranfahy AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:08:47 +0100
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
jhobbs AT iol.ie
Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Ed
These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree with
your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2. 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317
3. 1988 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is now
much
rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than Gull-billed
Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Killian Mullarney <kmullarney AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:04:37 +0100
One was reported from Duncannon in March. The observer subsequently
withdrew the claim on the basis that the view was very brief and he may have
made a mistake.
Derravaragh bird in 1984 was found by Bruce Carrick. I'm pretty sure Pat
Smiddy found the Ballymacoda bird but I'm sure others on the list will be
able to fill those gaps in your record.
Surprisingly, the species has still to be recorded in Wexford.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:53 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
> Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
> jhobbs AT iol.ie
> Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
>
> Ed
> These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree
> with your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
>
> 1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16 2.
> 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3. 1988
> 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
> Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
> 4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
> 5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
> 6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
> 6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
> 7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
>
> I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
> who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
> Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
> joe
>
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Caspian Tern
>
>
> All,
> It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
> mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
> records since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the
> species is now much rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying
> ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
> Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
> am............Ed.
>
> The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
> 1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com - Microsoft(r) Exchange solutions from a leading provider -
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> DISCLAIMER
>
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender
> immediately by return e-mail and notify the sender and then delete this
> message (including any attachments) from your system. This communication
> and any attachments contain information which is confidential and may also
> be legally privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that
> any form of disclosure, distribution, copying or use of this communication
> or the information in it or in any attachments is strictly prohibited and
> may be unlawful.
>
>
> E-mail communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free, as
> information could be intercepted, corrupted, amended, lost, destroyed,
> arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Gilead does not accept
> liability for any such matters or their consequences. Anyone who
> communicates with Gilead by e-mail is taken to accept the risks in doing
> so. Gilead has taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that any
> attachment to this e-mail has been swept for viruses. However, Gilead
> cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of viruses
> and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening
> any attachment.
>
> Gilead Sciences Limited . Registered as a limited company in Ireland .
> Registered number
> 259755
> Registered office: Unit 13 . Stillorgan Industrial Park . Blackrock . Co
> Dublin . Ireland . Telephone: +353 21 4825500
> . Fax: +353 21 4825518
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date: 07/01/09
> 18:07:00
>
Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
From: Mike O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:53:06 +0100
Ed,
Just saw the shots...WOW! Remarkably like the Dargan bird albeit with less
grey on the underparts and tertials.
There certainly was nothing like this bird in the bay later in the evening
yesterday. I checked the whole southern shore to the tip of the Maharees.
I am curious about the report of dark red pigmentation noted on the bill of
a Lesser Black-backed Gull. Is it possible there was something in the area
that a couple of gulls got their bills stuck into? And if so could the
apparent darkness of the legs also just be mud or other pigmentation. Could
this be a hybrid perhaps?
In any case this is all building up to the inevitable arrival of Audouin's
in Ireland ... this August in Wexford perhaps. No worries about the twitch
Ed...I will hold you to that mobile phone munch though! You can wash it
down with a pint if you like ;)
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kieran Fahy"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
> Hi Killian/Ed,
>
> Despite driving 496 miles yesterday (accurate figure !), including the
> trip
> to Kerry, I concur with
> Killian that Ed has nothing to apologise for - but I think it only fair
> that
> the Mobile-Phone munching
> be performed for the select group who twitched the putative Audouin's -
> Cape
> Clear in October seems like
> a likely location !!
>
> Regards,
> KieranF
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
> Killian Mullarney
> Sent: 02 July 2009 09:43
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> I doubt very much that any 'apology' is needed here. While I can't speak
> for
>
> those who may have been inconvenienced by an abortive of unsuccessful
> twitch, I'd imagine most of them are much relieved to learn that they
> didn't
>
> 'dip' on a 1st Irish after all! Besides, your promise to "eat your phone"
> if
>
> it turned out not to be the real thing will, I'm sure, provide great
> entertainment to all who are able to witness it. Will it be a sleek,
> modern
> mobile, or a bulky old landline handset?
>
> These aberrant Herring-types represent a real pitfall when views are
> brief,
> distant or received as poor quality digital images. I'm just glad I didn't
> make any rash promises when I was initially taken in by images of the
> Belfast "Oddwans" a couple of years ago....
>
> Maybe we'll get it right on the third attempt?
>
> regards,
>
> Killian
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Edward Carty"
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:45 AM
> To:
> Subject: Blennerville Audouins
>
>> Hi all,
>> I have just turned on my pc..........!
>> Apologies all round for getting so excited about a Herring Gull,on
>> the brief
>> views I had and the photos I viewed afterwards I was convinced that the
>> bird
>> in question was a first Irish........very sorry for messing up everyones
>> evening...........Ed.
>>
>
>
>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date: 07/01/09
>> 18:07:00
>>
>
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: "Graham Clarke (Cork, Tablet Manufacturing)"
<Graham.Clarke AT GILEAD.COM>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 05:53:04 -0700
Wasn't there a Caspian Tern early March this year in Wexford?
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
jhobbs AT iol.ie
Sent: 02 July 2009 13:38
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Ed
These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree with
your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16 2. 1984
20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317 3. 1988
07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember who
found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000 Ballymacoda
and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird mentioned
in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records since 2001 in
the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is now much rarer and
sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than Gull-billed Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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attachments contain information which is confidential and may also be legally
privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you
are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of disclosure,
distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it or
in any attachments is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
E-mail communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free, as
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any such matters or their consequences. Anyone who communicates with Gilead by
e-mail is taken to accept the risks in doing so. Gilead has taken every
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie" <jhobbs@IOL.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:37:56 -0400
Ed
These are the Caspian Tern records I have in my db which seem to agree with
your tally. As you point out they dont generally hang about.
1. 1959 30-Sep. (off) Tory Island, Donegal. Irish Bird Report 1(7):16
2. 1984 20-Jul. Lough Derravaragh, Westmeath. Irish Birds 3(2):317
3. 1988 07-Aug->09-Aug (2 birds) and 10-Aug->13-Aug (1 bird remaining).
Ballycotton, Cork. Irish Birds 4(1):100
4. 1991 12-Jul. Rosscarbery, Cork. Irish Birds 4(4):596
5. 1998 19-Jun->20-Jun. Ballycotton & Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds
6(3):396 & Irish Birds 8(3):387
6. 2000 14-Aug. Ballymacoda, Cork. Irish Birds 7(1):101
7. 2001 18-Aug. Blackrock Strand, Kerry. Irish Birds 7(2):231
I seem to be missing the finders of some of these. If anyone can remember
who found the Lough Derravaragh, Rosscarbery, 1998 Ballycotton, 2000
Ballymacoda and 2001 Blackrock Strand birds I would be obliged to learn.
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Edward Carty vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is now
much
rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than Gull-billed
Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:02:07 +0100
I see the problem that gull could cause.
I also see the problem consuming a mobile phone could cause and it is
not in the swallowing !
Best wishes to the person who shouts the next Audouin's.
BBB
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Fitzpatrick, Dara
Sent: 02 July 2009 12:07
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
Is there anyone looking for the Caspian today?
I'm on stand-by if its found.
Ed - check out this phone on youtube.
You should be able to swallow it whole with a few pints of porter on
Cape!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brw1Ve5dpaI
Regards,
Dara
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Edward Carty
Sent: 02 July 2009 10:46
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the
bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is
now much
rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than
Gull-billed Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far
this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
#####################################################################################
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
by MailMarshal
#####################################################################################
Subject: Re: Caspian Tern
From: "Fitzpatrick, Dara" <d.fitzpatrick AT UCC.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:06:37 +0100
Is there anyone looking for the Caspian today?
I'm on stand-by if its found.
Ed - check out this phone on youtube.
You should be able to swallow it whole with a few pints of porter on
Cape!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brw1Ve5dpaI
Regards,
Dara
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Edward Carty
Sent: 02 July 2009 10:46
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Caspian Tern
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the
bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no
records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is
now much
rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than
Gull-billed Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far
this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
Subject: Caspian Tern
From: Edward Carty <vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:45:50 +0100
All,
It seems that yesterdays bird is the 9th Irish record after the bird
mentioned in my earlier posting also in Kerry in 2001,I can find no records
since 2001 in the IBR's or IRBC provisional lists.......the species is now much
rarer and sought after(due to its' short staying ability) than Gull-billed
Tern.....!
Rather typically there is no sign of the bird at Blennerville so far this
am............Ed.
The previous records are Donegal 1959,Westmeath 1984,Cork (2) 1988,Cork
1991,Cork 1998,Cork 2000,Kerry 2001,Kerry 2009
Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
From: Kieran Fahy <kieranfahy AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:57:22 +0100
Hi Killian/Ed,
Despite driving 496 miles yesterday (accurate figure !), including the trip
to Kerry, I concur with
Killian that Ed has nothing to apologise for - but I think it only fair that
the Mobile-Phone munching
be performed for the select group who twitched the putative Audouin's - Cape
Clear in October seems like
a likely location !!
Regards,
KieranF
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Killian Mullarney
Sent: 02 July 2009 09:43
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
Hi Ed,
I doubt very much that any 'apology' is needed here. While I can't speak for
those who may have been inconvenienced by an abortive of unsuccessful
twitch, I'd imagine most of them are much relieved to learn that they didn't
'dip' on a 1st Irish after all! Besides, your promise to "eat your phone" if
it turned out not to be the real thing will, I'm sure, provide great
entertainment to all who are able to witness it. Will it be a sleek, modern
mobile, or a bulky old landline handset?
These aberrant Herring-types represent a real pitfall when views are brief,
distant or received as poor quality digital images. I'm just glad I didn't
make any rash promises when I was initially taken in by images of the
Belfast "Oddwans" a couple of years ago....
Maybe we'll get it right on the third attempt?
regards,
Killian
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Edward Carty"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:45 AM
To:
Subject: Blennerville Audouins
> Hi all,
> I have just turned on my pc..........!
> Apologies all round for getting so excited about a Herring Gull,on
> the brief
> views I had and the photos I viewed afterwards I was convinced that the
> bird
> in question was a first Irish........very sorry for messing up everyones
> evening...........Ed.
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date: 07/01/09
> 18:07:00
>
Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
From: Killian Mullarney <kmullarney AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:53:42 +0100
Here:
http://www.birdsireland.com/pages/rare_bird_news/2009/july_photos.html
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Eamonn"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 9:49 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
> Is there a shot on-line anywhere?
>
> BBB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
> Killian Mullarney
> Sent: 02 July 2009 09:43
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> I doubt very much that any 'apology' is needed here. While I can't speak
> for
> those who may have been inconvenienced by an abortive of unsuccessful
> twitch, I'd imagine most of them are much relieved to learn that they
> didn't
> 'dip' on a 1st Irish after all! Besides, your promise to "eat your
> phone" if
> it turned out not to be the real thing will, I'm sure, provide great
> entertainment to all who are able to witness it. Will it be a sleek,
> modern
> mobile, or a bulky old landline handset?
>
> These aberrant Herring-types represent a real pitfall when views are
> brief,
> distant or received as poor quality digital images. I'm just glad I
> didn't
> make any rash promises when I was initially taken in by images of the
> Belfast "Oddwans" a couple of years ago....
>
> Maybe we'll get it right on the third attempt?
>
> regards,
>
> Killian
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Edward Carty"
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:45 AM
> To:
> Subject: Blennerville Audouins
>
>> Hi all,
>> I have just turned on my pc..........!
>> Apologies all round for getting so excited about a Herring
> Gull,on
>> the brief
>> views I had and the photos I viewed afterwards I was convinced that
> the
>> bird
>> in question was a first Irish........very sorry for messing up
> everyones
>> evening...........Ed.
>>
>
>
>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date:
> 07/01/09
>> 18:07:00
>>
>
#####################################################################################
> This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
> by MailMarshal
>
#####################################################################################
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date: 07/01/09
> 18:07:00
>
Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:49:49 +0100
Is there a shot on-line anywhere?
BBB
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
Killian Mullarney
Sent: 02 July 2009 09:43
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
Hi Ed,
I doubt very much that any 'apology' is needed here. While I can't speak
for
those who may have been inconvenienced by an abortive of unsuccessful
twitch, I'd imagine most of them are much relieved to learn that they
didn't
'dip' on a 1st Irish after all! Besides, your promise to "eat your
phone" if
it turned out not to be the real thing will, I'm sure, provide great
entertainment to all who are able to witness it. Will it be a sleek,
modern
mobile, or a bulky old landline handset?
These aberrant Herring-types represent a real pitfall when views are
brief,
distant or received as poor quality digital images. I'm just glad I
didn't
make any rash promises when I was initially taken in by images of the
Belfast "Oddwans" a couple of years ago....
Maybe we'll get it right on the third attempt?
regards,
Killian
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Edward Carty"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:45 AM
To:
Subject: Blennerville Audouins
> Hi all,
> I have just turned on my pc..........!
> Apologies all round for getting so excited about a Herring
Gull,on
> the brief
> views I had and the photos I viewed afterwards I was convinced that
the
> bird
> in question was a first Irish........very sorry for messing up
everyones
> evening...........Ed.
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date:
07/01/09
> 18:07:00
>
#####################################################################################
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared
by MailMarshal
#####################################################################################
Subject: Re: Blennerville Audouins
From: Killian Mullarney <kmullarney AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:43:18 +0100
Hi Ed,
I doubt very much that any 'apology' is needed here. While I can't speak for
those who may have been inconvenienced by an abortive of unsuccessful
twitch, I'd imagine most of them are much relieved to learn that they didn't
'dip' on a 1st Irish after all! Besides, your promise to "eat your phone" if
it turned out not to be the real thing will, I'm sure, provide great
entertainment to all who are able to witness it. Will it be a sleek, modern
mobile, or a bulky old landline handset?
These aberrant Herring-types represent a real pitfall when views are brief,
distant or received as poor quality digital images. I'm just glad I didn't
make any rash promises when I was initially taken in by images of the
Belfast "Oddwans" a couple of years ago....
Maybe we'll get it right on the third attempt?
regards,
Killian
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Edward Carty"
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:45 AM
To:
Subject: Blennerville Audouins
> Hi all,
> I have just turned on my pc..........!
> Apologies all round for getting so excited about a Herring Gull,on
> the brief
> views I had and the photos I viewed afterwards I was convinced that the
> bird
> in question was a first Irish........very sorry for messing up everyones
> evening...........Ed.
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2213 - Release Date: 07/01/09
> 18:07:00
>
Subject: Blennerville Audouins
From: Edward Carty <vireoed AT YAHOO.CO.UK>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 08:45:34 +0100
Hi all,
I have just turned on my pc..........!
Apologies all round for getting so excited about a Herring Gull,on the brief
views I had and the photos I viewed afterwards I was convinced that the bird
in question was a first Irish........very sorry for messing up everyones
evening...........Ed.
Subject: Re: Stormin Norman
From: Éanna Ó Floinn <oflynne AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 22:41:46 +0100
Thanks Eugene!
----- "Eugene ARCHER" wrote:
> Stormin' Norman has more to say . . . . check out his latest posting
> on
> the Breeding Stone Curlews in Co. Galway !
>
> Eugene :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph Doolan wrote:
> > FYI.
> >
> > Stormin Norman . . . a refreshing perspective. Enjoy.
> >
> > http://normanleonardmcfall.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
Subject: Re: ENJOY
From: jez simms <jez.simms AT ATSGROUP.NET>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 14:49:40 +0000
Bugger, you live and learn ! I'll send them direct !
JEZ SIMMS: BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER.
ATS GROUP. P.O. BOX OS 2428, OSU, ACCRA, GHANA.
Tel: +233 (0) 249 486348|+226 76817213|skype jezsimms |www.atsgroup.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Mike
O'Keeffe
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:26 PM
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: ENJOY
Jez,
IBN doesn't allow attachments unfortunately. Its the thought that counts
though ;)
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "jez simms"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:07 AM
Subject: ENJOY
>
>
> On a lighter note, enjoy !
>
>
>
>
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> _____
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> cid:012e01c9be6d$46a43890$6401a8c0 AT Family
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> cid:014a01c9be6d$46a6a990$6401a8c0 AT Family
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> cid:014b01c9be6d$46a6a990$6401a8c0 AT Family
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> _____
>
>
>
> Royal Household Legal Disclaimer - This message and any attachments should
> only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and be used by them
> for its intended purpose. The Royal Household cannot accept liability for
> statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf
> of
> the Royal Household. Replies to this email address may be subject to
> interception or monitoring for operational reasons or for lawful business
> purposes.
>
>
>
Subject: Re: Stormin Norman
From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:36:16 +0200
Stormin' Norman has more to say . . . . check out his latest posting on
the Breeding Stone Curlews in Co. Galway !
Eugene :-)
Joseph Doolan wrote:
> FYI.
>
> Stormin Norman . . . a refreshing perspective. Enjoy.
>
> http://normanleonardmcfall.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
Subject: Caspian Tern
From: irishbirdnews <irishbirdnews AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:44:23 +0100
Some shots of the Blennerville Caspian Tern now up on www.birdsireland.com
Click on the July gallery. All we need now is for the Royal to be relocated
and another Lesser Crested to drop in somewhere and we'll be sorted. Oh, and
a Bridled at Ladys Island wouldn't do any harm either. July is here...time
for drifting terns to be found.
Eric
ps a great find by Dave
Subject: Re: ENJOY
From: Mike O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:25:41 +0100
Jez,
IBN doesn't allow attachments unfortunately. Its the thought that counts
though ;)
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "jez simms"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:07 AM
Subject: ENJOY
>
>
> On a lighter note, enjoy !
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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> cid:012e01c9be6d$46a43890$6401a8c0 AT Family
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> _____
>
>
>
> Royal Household Legal Disclaimer - This message and any attachments should
> only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and be used by them
> for its intended purpose. The Royal Household cannot accept liability for
> statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf
> of
> the Royal Household. Replies to this email address may be subject to
> interception or monitoring for operational reasons or for lawful business
> purposes.
>
>
>
Subject: ENJOY
From: jez simms <jez.simms AT ATSGROUP.NET>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:07:43 +0000
On a lighter note, enjoy !
_____
cid:012e01c9be6d$46a43890$6401a8c0 AT Family
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cid:014801c9be6d$46a6a990$6401a8c0 AT Family
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cid:014901c9be6d$46a6a990$6401a8c0 AT Family
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cid:014a01c9be6d$46a6a990$6401a8c0 AT Family
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cid:014b01c9be6d$46a6a990$6401a8c0 AT Family
_____
cid:014c01c9be6d$46a6a990$6401a8c0 AT Family
_____
Royal Household Legal Disclaimer - This message and any attachments should
only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and be used by them
for its intended purpose. The Royal Household cannot accept liability for
statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of
the Royal Household. Replies to this email address may be subject to
interception or monitoring for operational reasons or for lawful business
purposes.
Subject: Not bird related in the slightest either
From: "jhobbs AT iol.ie" <jhobbs@IOL.IE>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:20:51 -0400
Picking up on Ian's point regarding administrative areas in Northern
Ireland I wonder how many are aware that the County of Dublin no longer
exits and has not done so since 1st January 1994! I must admit my own
ignorance about this until the recent local elections when I got in to
conversation with one of the candidates who kept referring to County Dun
Laoghaire Rathdown! For those interested you can read all about the
dastardly deed on that fantastic source of information, Wikipedia, at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Dublin
joe
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ian Forsyth ian.forsyth24 AT BTINTERNET.COM
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:17:31 +0100
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
The web site addresses of the "Two great services" would be very helpful to
those of us not in the magic loop.
And someone else suggested county or town of contributors to IBN would be
useful.
Ian Forsyth
county Belfast
town Belfast
Note: there are now, administratively seven counties in Northern Ireland!
----- Original Message -----
>From: "Éanna Ó Floinn"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
Your point about "Two great services" is an excellent one, Breffni, and
goes
to
the heart of the matter. I also use both (I´m sure most of us do), and I´d
be
devastated if a "fatwah" were called on either one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com – Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft®
Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail
Subject: Non birding topic
From: Sean Cronin <n737wh AT HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:05:05 +0100
Hi All
I suppose it's a little bit bird related as the band in question is the Eagles.
I have a spare front row ticket for the Eagles concert in the RDS this coming
Thursday if anyone is interested. Cost €250 but on offer for €80. Will be going
myself but my wife can't make it. Only downside is that it's allocated seating
so any unfortunate soul who gets the ticket will be stuck next to me for the
show.
Please reply privately.
All the best
Sean Cronin
_________________________________________________________________
See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Breffni Martin <bmartin AT REGINTEL.COM>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:34:48 +0100
Apologies! Three great services - i was forgetting flightline...though as
far as i know you can't get bins in the North.
(where is county belfast when it is at home?)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Forsyth"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [IBN-L] Great Spotted Woodpecker
> The web site addresses of the "Two great services" would be very helpful
> to those of us not in the magic loop.
>
> And someone else suggested county or town of contributors to IBN would be
> useful.
>
> Ian Forsyth
> county Belfast
> town Belfast
>
> Note: there are now, administratively seven counties in Northern Ireland!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Éanna Ó Floinn"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
>
>
> Your point about "Two great services" is an excellent one, Breffni, and
> goes to
> the heart of the matter. I also use both (I´m sure most of us do), and I´d
> be
> devastated if a "fatwah" were called on either one.
>
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Ian Forsyth <ian.forsyth24 AT BTINTERNET.COM>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:17:31 +0100
The web site addresses of the "Two great services" would be very helpful to
those of us not in the magic loop.
And someone else suggested county or town of contributors to IBN would be
useful.
Ian Forsyth
county Belfast
town Belfast
Note: there are now, administratively seven counties in Northern Ireland!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Éanna Ó Floinn"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
Your point about "Two great services" is an excellent one, Breffni, and goes
to
the heart of the matter. I also use both (I´m sure most of us do), and I´d
be
devastated if a "fatwah" were called on either one.
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Éanna Ó Floinn <oflynne AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:08:24 +0100
Your point about "Two great services" is an excellent one, Breffni, and goes to
the heart of the matter. I also use both (I´m sure most of us do), and I´d be
devastated if a "fatwah" were called on either one.
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Coilin MacLochlainn <environs AT IOL.IE>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:20:26 +0100
There are plenty of examples, Breffni; Rick listed some. I don't want to
draw further attention to them or others. Registered access to a site is not
a solution. It's a site's responsibility to adopt a cautious approach; there
is no regulation of internet content that would be relevant here.
Certainly, Joe and Eugene's site is a great one and a wonderful database of
info, and long may it continue, but there used to be a tradition of not
revealing exact locations of rare breeding birds (the first Atlas did not
even show the peregrine 10km squares) and that is being ignored by this site
(except where those who send in records take it upon themselves to be
discreet, as many do), which is most regrettable.
Coilin
On 30/06/2009 11:47, "Breffni Martin" wrote:
> Can't find them Coilin. Can you give one example?
>
> Perhaps Joe should limit access to his site to people who register. Access
> could be password controlled and only those with passwords could get access
> to the info.
>
> Personally I'm not complaining, I think we are gifted with two great bird
> information services, personally I use both.
>
> All the best
>
> Breffni
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Coilin MacLochlainn"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [IBN-L] Great Spotted Woodpecker
>
>
> There's a wide range of species whose locations I think should not be
> revealed, goosander would be one of them.
>
> Coilin
>
>
> On 29/06/2009 21:42, "Breffni Martin" wrote:
>
>> Hi Coilin
>>
>> Are the other rare breeding birds you refer to red grouse and goosander?
>> Or
>> is it something else?
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Breffni
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Coilin MacLochlainn"
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [IBN-L] Great Spotted Woodpecker
>>
>>
>> Hi Éanna,
>>
>> Read Rick Mundy's original posting re rare breeding birds again. He
>> describes how websites have in some cases provided detailed information on
>> the locations of rare breeding birds, information that could assist in the
>> finding of their nests.
>>
>> Of these websites, the one I'm most familiar with is irishbirding.com.
>> That
>> site's compiler, Joe Doolan, put a message on IBN a few weeks ago in
>> relation to the woodpecker reports and how irishbirding.com had not
>> revealed
>> the exact location of any GSW nests. That is true. However, within days or
>> weeks of that, irishbirding.com had posted messages with information on
>> the
>> locations of other rare breeding birds, information that I or anyone could
>> have used to locate the birds, and with a bit more effort, even their
>> nests
>> (if they had one).
>>
>> I was shocked that after all the fine words, irishbirding.com was still
>> prepared to divulge such information on putative breeding rarities,
>> potentially putting them at risk of disturbance, if not worse.
>>
>> So, if this thread has any result, the most important one would be to
>> convince Joe Doolan to moderate his site and to provide only generalised
>> information on the location of rare breeding bird sightings. We do need to
>> hear about such sightings, but we don't need to know their exact
>> locations.
>> I could elaborate on this, but I think everyone knows the reasons. I would
>> also moderate information on rare birds with potential to breed, not just
>> those known to be breeding.
>>
>> I believe all bird-reporting websites should self-censor in this way, to
>> avoid putting rare breeding birds at risk.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Coilin MacLochlainn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29/06/2009 20:16, "Éanna Ó Floinn" wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rob, point taken. I have no knowledge of the Derrybawn site, and I
>>> wasn´t
>>> there. If birders/photographers/twitchers/etc. behaved irresponsibly at
>>> the
>>> site, that is disgraceful. But I´m not sure shooting the messenger is the
>>> right
>>> response....I´m pretty sure in any case that the location of the
>>> nest-hole
>>> wasn´t posted anywhere, or reported on any hotline. How do birders
>>> "control"
>>> a site that is publicly accessible? And how do they decide which group
>>> can
>>> or
>>> can´t visit? In the case of Killruddery, it was quite simple...without
>>> permission
>>> from the owners, one isn´t allowed in. But Derrybawn, isn´t that
>>> publicly-
>>> owned land? Is it the sharing of information about birds that is at
>>> issue,
>>> or
>>> the
>>> behaviour of some birders? I´ve seen appalling behaviour over the years
>>> by
>>> a
>>> very few birders in search of a better look, or a better "shot", but
>>> calling
>>> for
>>> the censorship of a website or a hotline or anything else isn´t going to
>>> cure
>>> them. A lot of birders who can´t spend all their time "in the field" are
>>> very
>>> grateful for websites and hotlines that provide information, and the fact
>>> that
>>> GSW were breeding in Wicklow was announced on many, many websites and
>>> even on the RTÉ news. As far as I know, none gave information on exact
>>> locations. Why single out one website for criticism?
>>>
>>
>
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Breffni Martin <bmartin AT REGINTEL.COM>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:47:34 +0100
Can't find them Coilin. Can you give one example?
Perhaps Joe should limit access to his site to people who register. Access
could be password controlled and only those with passwords could get access
to the info.
Personally I'm not complaining, I think we are gifted with two great bird
information services, personally I use both.
All the best
Breffni
----- Original Message -----
From: "Coilin MacLochlainn"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [IBN-L] Great Spotted Woodpecker
There's a wide range of species whose locations I think should not be
revealed, goosander would be one of them.
Coilin
On 29/06/2009 21:42, "Breffni Martin" wrote:
> Hi Coilin
>
> Are the other rare breeding birds you refer to red grouse and goosander?
> Or
> is it something else?
>
> All the best
>
> Breffni
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Coilin MacLochlainn"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [IBN-L] Great Spotted Woodpecker
>
>
> Hi Éanna,
>
> Read Rick Mundy's original posting re rare breeding birds again. He
> describes how websites have in some cases provided detailed information on
> the locations of rare breeding birds, information that could assist in the
> finding of their nests.
>
> Of these websites, the one I'm most familiar with is irishbirding.com.
> That
> site's compiler, Joe Doolan, put a message on IBN a few weeks ago in
> relation to the woodpecker reports and how irishbirding.com had not
> revealed
> the exact location of any GSW nests. That is true. However, within days or
> weeks of that, irishbirding.com had posted messages with information on
> the
> locations of other rare breeding birds, information that I or anyone could
> have used to locate the birds, and with a bit more effort, even their
> nests
> (if they had one).
>
> I was shocked that after all the fine words, irishbirding.com was still
> prepared to divulge such information on putative breeding rarities,
> potentially putting them at risk of disturbance, if not worse.
>
> So, if this thread has any result, the most important one would be to
> convince Joe Doolan to moderate his site and to provide only generalised
> information on the location of rare breeding bird sightings. We do need to
> hear about such sightings, but we don't need to know their exact
> locations.
> I could elaborate on this, but I think everyone knows the reasons. I would
> also moderate information on rare birds with potential to breed, not just
> those known to be breeding.
>
> I believe all bird-reporting websites should self-censor in this way, to
> avoid putting rare breeding birds at risk.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Coilin MacLochlainn
>
>
>
>
> On 29/06/2009 20:16, "Éanna Ó Floinn" wrote:
>
>> Hi Rob, point taken. I have no knowledge of the Derrybawn site, and I
>> wasn´t
>> there. If birders/photographers/twitchers/etc. behaved irresponsibly at
>> the
>> site, that is disgraceful. But I´m not sure shooting the messenger is the
>> right
>> response....I´m pretty sure in any case that the location of the
>> nest-hole
>> wasn´t posted anywhere, or reported on any hotline. How do birders
>> "control"
>> a site that is publicly accessible? And how do they decide which group
>> can
>> or
>> can´t visit? In the case of Killruddery, it was quite simple...without
>> permission
>> from the owners, one isn´t allowed in. But Derrybawn, isn´t that
>> publicly-
>> owned land? Is it the sharing of information about birds that is at
>> issue,
>> or
>> the
>> behaviour of some birders? I´ve seen appalling behaviour over the years
>> by
>> a
>> very few birders in search of a better look, or a better "shot", but
>> calling
>> for
>> the censorship of a website or a hotline or anything else isn´t going to
>> cure
>> them. A lot of birders who can´t spend all their time "in the field" are
>> very
>> grateful for websites and hotlines that provide information, and the fact
>> that
>> GSW were breeding in Wicklow was announced on many, many websites and
>> even on the RTÉ news. As far as I know, none gave information on exact
>> locations. Why single out one website for criticism?
>>
>
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Éanna Ó Floinn <oflynne AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:23:07 +0100
Thanks Coilin, point taken and I don´t know what the other birds in question
are (nor do I want to!;)). None of us "need" to see nesting sites of any
sort, (I suppose we don´t "need" to see rare birds at all, but we do "want"
to).
Encouraging all of us (as birders, or websites, or information lines) to be
responsible when giving others informationis a good idea. At the same time,
the people really responsible for doing damage are the ones who behave
foolishly. If I told you of a rare natural history event taking place in a wood
near me, and you went and behaved abominably there, it would be unfair for
me to be blamed for your behaviour. And however generalised information is,
there are a lot of very smart birders out there who can make inferences from
it....thankfully most are decent and responsible people. Most of us operate on
the guidelines Breffni helpfully cites, and these can be summarised as "Use
your Common Sense".
Perhaps at sites, when people are seen to behave irresponsibly, they could
be asked courteously to desist? There´s no point in watching someone at a
site causing potential harm, saying nothing to them, and then complaining
about it later on a website.
The call for a website to be "shut down" is another matter entirely, and is
not only unfair, it´s also practically impossible to effect. An attempt to
"shut
down" a legally-operating website, that isn´t infringing copyright law, or
disseminating hate-material or whatever, would be laughed out of the High
Court, and I don´t see birders footing the legal bill. The only thing you can
do
with a website you don´t like (apart from hacking it down) is to give up
looking at it....a course of action open to all.
Thanks again and best wishes,
Éanna
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Coilin MacLochlainn <environs AT IOL.IE>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:16:26 +0100
There's a wide range of species whose locations I think should not be
revealed, goosander would be one of them.
Coilin
On 29/06/2009 21:42, "Breffni Martin" wrote:
> Hi Coilin
>
> Are the other rare breeding birds you refer to red grouse and goosander? Or
> is it something else?
>
> All the best
>
> Breffni
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Coilin MacLochlainn"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [IBN-L] Great Spotted Woodpecker
>
>
> Hi Éanna,
>
> Read Rick Mundy's original posting re rare breeding birds again. He
> describes how websites have in some cases provided detailed information on
> the locations of rare breeding birds, information that could assist in the
> finding of their nests.
>
> Of these websites, the one I'm most familiar with is irishbirding.com. That
> site's compiler, Joe Doolan, put a message on IBN a few weeks ago in
> relation to the woodpecker reports and how irishbirding.com had not revealed
> the exact location of any GSW nests. That is true. However, within days or
> weeks of that, irishbirding.com had posted messages with information on the
> locations of other rare breeding birds, information that I or anyone could
> have used to locate the birds, and with a bit more effort, even their nests
> (if they had one).
>
> I was shocked that after all the fine words, irishbirding.com was still
> prepared to divulge such information on putative breeding rarities,
> potentially putting them at risk of disturbance, if not worse.
>
> So, if this thread has any result, the most important one would be to
> convince Joe Doolan to moderate his site and to provide only generalised
> information on the location of rare breeding bird sightings. We do need to
> hear about such sightings, but we don't need to know their exact locations.
> I could elaborate on this, but I think everyone knows the reasons. I would
> also moderate information on rare birds with potential to breed, not just
> those known to be breeding.
>
> I believe all bird-reporting websites should self-censor in this way, to
> avoid putting rare breeding birds at risk.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Coilin MacLochlainn
>
>
>
>
> On 29/06/2009 20:16, "Éanna Ó Floinn" wrote:
>
>> Hi Rob, point taken. I have no knowledge of the Derrybawn site, and I
>> wasn´t
>> there. If birders/photographers/twitchers/etc. behaved irresponsibly at
>> the
>> site, that is disgraceful. But I´m not sure shooting the messenger is the
>> right
>> response....I´m pretty sure in any case that the location of the nest-hole
>> wasn´t posted anywhere, or reported on any hotline. How do birders
>> "control"
>> a site that is publicly accessible? And how do they decide which group can
>> or
>> can´t visit? In the case of Killruddery, it was quite simple...without
>> permission
>> from the owners, one isn´t allowed in. But Derrybawn, isn´t that publicly-
>> owned land? Is it the sharing of information about birds that is at issue,
>> or
>> the
>> behaviour of some birders? I´ve seen appalling behaviour over the years by
>> a
>> very few birders in search of a better look, or a better "shot", but
>> calling
>> for
>> the censorship of a website or a hotline or anything else isn´t going to
>> cure
>> them. A lot of birders who can´t spend all their time "in the field" are
>> very
>> grateful for websites and hotlines that provide information, and the fact
>> that
>> GSW were breeding in Wicklow was announced on many, many websites and
>> even on the RTÉ news. As far as I know, none gave information on exact
>> locations. Why single out one website for criticism?
>>
>
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Breffni Martin <bmartin AT REGINTEL.COM>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:42:21 +0100
Hi Coilin
Are the other rare breeding birds you refer to red grouse and goosander? Or
is it something else?
All the best
Breffni
----- Original Message -----
From: "Coilin MacLochlainn"
To:
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [IBN-L] Great Spotted Woodpecker
Hi Éanna,
Read Rick Mundy's original posting re rare breeding birds again. He
describes how websites have in some cases provided detailed information on
the locations of rare breeding birds, information that could assist in the
finding of their nests.
Of these websites, the one I'm most familiar with is irishbirding.com. That
site's compiler, Joe Doolan, put a message on IBN a few weeks ago in
relation to the woodpecker reports and how irishbirding.com had not revealed
the exact location of any GSW nests. That is true. However, within days or
weeks of that, irishbirding.com had posted messages with information on the
locations of other rare breeding birds, information that I or anyone could
have used to locate the birds, and with a bit more effort, even their nests
(if they had one).
I was shocked that after all the fine words, irishbirding.com was still
prepared to divulge such information on putative breeding rarities,
potentially putting them at risk of disturbance, if not worse.
So, if this thread has any result, the most important one would be to
convince Joe Doolan to moderate his site and to provide only generalised
information on the location of rare breeding bird sightings. We do need to
hear about such sightings, but we don't need to know their exact locations.
I could elaborate on this, but I think everyone knows the reasons. I would
also moderate information on rare birds with potential to breed, not just
those known to be breeding.
I believe all bird-reporting websites should self-censor in this way, to
avoid putting rare breeding birds at risk.
Best wishes
Coilin MacLochlainn
On 29/06/2009 20:16, "Éanna Ó Floinn" wrote:
> Hi Rob, point taken. I have no knowledge of the Derrybawn site, and I
> wasn´t
> there. If birders/photographers/twitchers/etc. behaved irresponsibly at
> the
> site, that is disgraceful. But I´m not sure shooting the messenger is the
> right
> response....I´m pretty sure in any case that the location of the nest-hole
> wasn´t posted anywhere, or reported on any hotline. How do birders
> "control"
> a site that is publicly accessible? And how do they decide which group can
> or
> can´t visit? In the case of Killruddery, it was quite simple...without
> permission
> from the owners, one isn´t allowed in. But Derrybawn, isn´t that publicly-
> owned land? Is it the sharing of information about birds that is at issue,
> or
> the
> behaviour of some birders? I´ve seen appalling behaviour over the years by
> a
> very few birders in search of a better look, or a better "shot", but
> calling
> for
> the censorship of a website or a hotline or anything else isn´t going to
> cure
> them. A lot of birders who can´t spend all their time "in the field" are
> very
> grateful for websites and hotlines that provide information, and the fact
> that
> GSW were breeding in Wicklow was announced on many, many websites and
> even on the RTÉ news. As far as I know, none gave information on exact
> locations. Why single out one website for criticism?
>
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Coilin MacLochlainn <environs AT IOL.IE>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:53:43 +0100
Hi Éanna,
Read Rick Mundy's original posting re rare breeding birds again. He
describes how websites have in some cases provided detailed information on
the locations of rare breeding birds, information that could assist in the
finding of their nests.
Of these websites, the one I'm most familiar with is irishbirding.com. That
site's compiler, Joe Doolan, put a message on IBN a few weeks ago in
relation to the woodpecker reports and how irishbirding.com had not revealed
the exact location of any GSW nests. That is true. However, within days or
weeks of that, irishbirding.com had posted messages with information on the
locations of other rare breeding birds, information that I or anyone could
have used to locate the birds, and with a bit more effort, even their nests
(if they had one).
I was shocked that after all the fine words, irishbirding.com was still
prepared to divulge such information on putative breeding rarities,
potentially putting them at risk of disturbance, if not worse.
So, if this thread has any result, the most important one would be to
convince Joe Doolan to moderate his site and to provide only generalised
information on the location of rare breeding bird sightings. We do need to
hear about such sightings, but we don't need to know their exact locations.
I could elaborate on this, but I think everyone knows the reasons. I would
also moderate information on rare birds with potential to breed, not just
those known to be breeding.
I believe all bird-reporting websites should self-censor in this way, to
avoid putting rare breeding birds at risk.
Best wishes
Coilin MacLochlainn
On 29/06/2009 20:16, "Éanna Ó Floinn" wrote:
> Hi Rob, point taken. I have no knowledge of the Derrybawn site, and I wasn´t
> there. If birders/photographers/twitchers/etc. behaved irresponsibly at the
> site, that is disgraceful. But I´m not sure shooting the messenger is the
> right
> response....I´m pretty sure in any case that the location of the nest-hole
> wasn´t posted anywhere, or reported on any hotline. How do birders "control"
> a site that is publicly accessible? And how do they decide which group can or
> can´t visit? In the case of Killruddery, it was quite simple...without
> permission
> from the owners, one isn´t allowed in. But Derrybawn, isn´t that publicly-
> owned land? Is it the sharing of information about birds that is at issue, or
> the
> behaviour of some birders? I´ve seen appalling behaviour over the years by a
> very few birders in search of a better look, or a better "shot", but calling
> for
> the censorship of a website or a hotline or anything else isn´t going to cure
> them. A lot of birders who can´t spend all their time "in the field" are very
> grateful for websites and hotlines that provide information, and the fact
that
> GSW were breeding in Wicklow was announced on many, many websites and
> even on the RTÉ news. As far as I know, none gave information on exact
> locations. Why single out one website for criticism?
>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Breffni Martin <bmartin AT REGINTEL.COM>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:52:13 +0100
The BTO one is quite good:
http://www.bto.org/notices/birdwatchers_code/bwc.pdf.
On the subject of photography:
"Whether you are particularly interested in photography, bird ringing,
sound-recording or birdwatching, remember to always put the interests of the
birds first.
. Avoid going too close to birds or disturbing their habitats - if a bird
flies away or makes repeated alarm calls, you're too close. If it leaves,
you won't get a good view of it anyway.
. Stay on roads and paths where they exist and avoid disturbing habitat used
by birds.
. Think about your fieldcraft. You might disturb a bird even if you are not
very close, eg a flock of wading birds on the foreshore can be disturbed
from a mile away if you stand on the seawall.
. Repeatedly playing a recording of bird song or calls to encourage a bird
to respond can divert a territorial bird from other important duties, such
as feeding its young. Never use playback to attract a species during its
breeding season."
Regards
Breffni
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike O'Keeffe"
To:
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [IBN-L] rare breeding birds
> Breffini/Rick/Paul,
>
> I wonder if there are actually any working Codes of Practice on the
> Internet. Nice posting Paul by the way! I agree with your very balanced
> position.
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Breffni Martin"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:28 PM
> Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
>
>
>> Hi Rick,
>>
>> In practice codes of conduct generally involve the formation of an
>> association of some kind (maybe the friendly societies or industrial and
>> provident societies acts which are a lot les onerous than incorporation)
>> and a requirement of members to abide by the code. Those who do not may
>> be penalised in various ways or expelled under the procedures set forth
>> in the articles of association, constitution or equivalent. Without an
>> association of some kind the code of conduct has no life as there is no
>> way to enforce it.
>>
>> All the best
>> Breffni
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "richard mundy"
>> To:
>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [IBN-L] rare breeding birds
>>
>>
>>> Thanks Mike,
>>>
>>> I haven't contacted anyone yet about precedents / any legal implications
>>> or
>>> whatever, but I will. I'm sure there are experts in these things around
>>> and
>>> I'm sure birding communities in other countries have come up against
>>> similar
>>> problems so there might even be something out there we can use as a
>>> template
>>> (if anyone knows of anything please pass the information on). I don't
>>> think
>>> any of that will be a big deal if the code is worded correctly and if
>>> exceptions (for example wardened sites, atlas surveys, etc) are thought
>>> of.
>>> I know consensus is difficult but as I say, if anyone has a problem with
>>> the
>>> idea in principle then I think they need to explain what their problem
>>> is
>>> because as far as I can see **publishing these locations serves no
>>> positive
>>> purpose whatsoever. I would hope that Birdwatch would ultimately be the
>>> 'headline' signatory and that local Birdwatch branches would sign-up as
>>> well, but I don't think it would be appropriate for them to organise it,
>>> not
>>> at this stage anyway.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike O'Keeffe
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rick,
>>>>
>>>> I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on
>>>> this
>>>> forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all
>>>> sorts
>>>> of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored,
>>>> the
>>>> discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl!
>>>> Its
>>>> just a talking shop at the end of the day.
>>>>
>>>> The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to
>>>> be
>>>> that it should remain that way. There might already be some
>>>> guidelines
>>>> published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any
>>>> conservation
>>>> websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard mundy"
>>>> To:
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
>>>> Subject: rare breeding birds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a
>>>>> code
>>>>> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
>>>>> breeding
>>>>> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just
>>>>> did a
>>>>> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
>>>>> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I
>>>>> looked
>>>>> at
>>>>> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some
>>>>> county
>>>>> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
>>>>> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding
>>>>> Red
>>>>> Grouse;
>>>>> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area
>>>>> with
>>>>> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
>>>>> breeding
>>>>> records from the 1970s;
>>>>> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge
>>>>> were
>>>>> seen;
>>>>> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
>>>>> records
>>>>> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>>>>>
>>>>> Need I go on?
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details,
>>>>> why
>>>>> are
>>>>> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
>>>>> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters
>>>>> and
>>>>> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
>>>>> putting
>>>>> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone
>>>>> who
>>>>> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits
>>>>> records to
>>>>> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than
>>>>> to
>>>>> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry'
>>>>> or
>>>>> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone
>>>>> would
>>>>> want
>>>>> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> *Breeding season records of:
>>>>> Birds Directive Annex I species;
>>>>> Red List species;
>>>>> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
>>>>> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
>>>>> namely
>>>>> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>>>>>
>>>>> We can then get a list of species together and a register of
>>>>> individuals
>>>>> and
>>>>> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need
>>>>> to
>>>>> step forward and expain why not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick Mundy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Éanna Ó Floinn <oflynne AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:16:54 +0100
Hi Rob, point taken. I have no knowledge of the Derrybawn site, and I wasn´t
there. If birders/photographers/twitchers/etc. behaved irresponsibly at the
site, that is disgraceful. But I´m not sure shooting the messenger is the right
response....I´m pretty sure in any case that the location of the nest-hole
wasn´t posted anywhere, or reported on any hotline. How do birders "control"
a site that is publicly accessible? And how do they decide which group can or
can´t visit? In the case of Killruddery, it was quite simple...without
permission
from the owners, one isn´t allowed in. But Derrybawn, isn´t that publicly-
owned land? Is it the sharing of information about birds that is at issue, or
the
behaviour of some birders? I´ve seen appalling behaviour over the years by a
very few birders in search of a better look, or a better "shot", but calling
for
the censorship of a website or a hotline or anything else isn´t going to cure
them. A lot of birders who can´t spend all their time "in the field" are very
grateful for websites and hotlines that provide information, and the fact that
GSW were breeding in Wicklow was announced on many, many websites and
even on the RTÉ news. As far as I know, none gave information on exact
locations. Why single out one website for criticism?
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Mike O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:00:45 +0100
Breffini/Rick/Paul,
I wonder if there are actually any working Codes of Practice on the
Internet. Nice posting Paul by the way! I agree with your very balanced
position.
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Breffni Martin"
To:
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
> Hi Rick,
>
> In practice codes of conduct generally involve the formation of an
> association of some kind (maybe the friendly societies or industrial and
> provident societies acts which are a lot les onerous than incorporation)
> and a requirement of members to abide by the code. Those who do not may be
> penalised in various ways or expelled under the procedures set forth in
> the articles of association, constitution or equivalent. Without an
> association of some kind the code of conduct has no life as there is no
> way to enforce it.
>
> All the best
> Breffni
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "richard mundy"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [IBN-L] rare breeding birds
>
>
>> Thanks Mike,
>>
>> I haven't contacted anyone yet about precedents / any legal implications
>> or
>> whatever, but I will. I'm sure there are experts in these things around
>> and
>> I'm sure birding communities in other countries have come up against
>> similar
>> problems so there might even be something out there we can use as a
>> template
>> (if anyone knows of anything please pass the information on). I don't
>> think
>> any of that will be a big deal if the code is worded correctly and if
>> exceptions (for example wardened sites, atlas surveys, etc) are thought
>> of.
>> I know consensus is difficult but as I say, if anyone has a problem with
>> the
>> idea in principle then I think they need to explain what their problem is
>> because as far as I can see **publishing these locations serves no
>> positive
>> purpose whatsoever. I would hope that Birdwatch would ultimately be the
>> 'headline' signatory and that local Birdwatch branches would sign-up as
>> well, but I don't think it would be appropriate for them to organise it,
>> not
>> at this stage anyway.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike O'Keeffe
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>> I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on
>>> this
>>> forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all
>>> sorts
>>> of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored,
>>> the
>>> discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl!
>>> Its
>>> just a talking shop at the end of the day.
>>>
>>> The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to be
>>> that it should remain that way. There might already be some guidelines
>>> published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any
>>> conservation
>>> websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard mundy"
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
>>> Subject: rare breeding birds
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a
>>>> code
>>>> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
>>>> breeding
>>>> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just did
>>>> a
>>>> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
>>>> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I
>>>> looked
>>>> at
>>>> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some
>>>> county
>>>> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>>>>
>>>> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
>>>> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding
>>>> Red
>>>> Grouse;
>>>> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area
>>>> with
>>>> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
>>>> breeding
>>>> records from the 1970s;
>>>> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge
>>>> were
>>>> seen;
>>>> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
>>>> records
>>>> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>>>>
>>>> Need I go on?
>>>>
>>>> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details, why
>>>> are
>>>> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
>>>> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters
>>>> and
>>>> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
>>>> putting
>>>> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>>>>
>>>> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone
>>>> who
>>>> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits records
>>>> to
>>>> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than
>>>> to
>>>> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry' or
>>>> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone would
>>>> want
>>>> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>>>>
>>>> *Breeding season records of:
>>>> Birds Directive Annex I species;
>>>> Red List species;
>>>> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
>>>> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
>>>> namely
>>>> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>>>>
>>>> We can then get a list of species together and a register of
>>>> individuals
>>>> and
>>>> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need
>>>> to
>>>> step forward and expain why not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rick Mundy
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Mike O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:58:28 +0100
Éanna,
Well said! One of the best postings on the IBN in a great many years. This
forum could do with having its windows opened for a bit of an airing like
that alot more often! Unfortunately a lot of us on here know each other for
years and we frequently forget this is an entirely public forum open to
everyone. Alot of what is posted here is banter and unfortunately sometimes
it gets personal. I for one hope you contribute more often!
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Éanna Ó Floinn"
To:
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: Great Spotted Woodpecker
New to IBN, I am perturbed by the tone and content of some of the debate
surrounding GSW sites, and wish to clarify a few issues in relation to the
Bray
birds.
It seems that it is being maintained that some birders, and the
irishbirding
website, by posting the presence of GSW in Killruddery/Hollybrook Park/South
Bray, have somehow put these birds in peril.
I have been monitoring and reporting GSW activity in the area since August
2008. The presence of GSW is no secret, and is not privy to a select group
called "birders". The families of fourteen neighbours and work colleagues
have
reported sightings of GSW in their gardens/neighbourhoods. One bird
frequented the trees in Killruddery Estate, and out of courtesy to the
Estate
Owners, by whose permission I have access to the Estate, I informed them of
the presence of the bird. Being keen conservationists, they were justifiably
delighted, and I continued to inform both them, irishbirding, and "BINS" of
the
GSW activity.
In February, drumming began, and was noted by many residents of the
Southern Cross area. It was therefore public information.
In March, the Estate kindly informed me that their Gamekeeper had seen a
pair engaged in courtship behaviour. I subsequently identified an area where
a
adult seemed to be bringing food to a particular area. This site is
off-limits to
the public. I informed both the Estate owners and BI, an official of whom
located a nest-hole and asked me to monitor it for activity. This I did,
from
the exact location instructed, causing no disturbance to the bird, and as
often
as possible within the time-constraints of my other more important
responsibilites and other interests.
The exact location of the nest-hole was never disclosed to any birder,
website, hotline or authority, out of respect for Killruddery Estate and its
privacy. Any claim that the Irishbirding website, or any poster on any other
website, endangered the birds by posting the words "Killruddery" or "Bray"
is
simply fatuous. Half of Bray knows there are woodpeckers there, and the
general public is perhaps more intelligent in bird matters than
dedicated "birders" assume....one simply has to see a strange B/W bird in
one´s garden, look up a bird-book, and the rest isn´t rocket-science. In any
case, Killruddery Estate covers some six square kilometres, and locating the
nesthole is impossible without breaking the law....the one about not
trespassing on private land.
It has been my policy since the outset that the local community in South
Bray, and Killruddery Estate, have a right to be informed about this rather
exciting natural history event in the area. The irishbirding website, and
BINS,
have kindly made available information on the GSW activity. No-one has
divulged any information about a nesthole. I am proud to say that now, my
own kids and at least thirty others in the neighbourhood can identify a GSW
by alarm-call or drumming, and can distinguish between a juvenile and an
adult.
All eagerly await GSW in their gardens and wil be keenly putting out peanut-
feeders and fat-balls. No-one searched for a nest-hole, and no birder or
website endangered the nesthole when it was occupied.
On first observing a juvenile GSW in the nesthole, I put my mobile phone
to
my binoculars and took two "photographs", for the record. These I sent to BI
and irishbirding. There is absolutely no possibility that these extremely
blurred
and amateurish images could be used to locate the site...which, as I said,
cannot be legally accessed in any case by the public without permission. If
any birder attempted to enter the area without permission, they would be
politely escorted off the Estate.
As regards the law, I am uncertain, after reading the postings on the
issue,
if I broke the law or not. I don´t have a licence, but I imagine that the
relevant legislation has been severely overtaken by technology. I am happy
to
answer to any authorities on the issue, and take the consequences. I assume
that if I had sat in the same spot, observed the nestling, and sketched it,
no
law would have been broken. (And my sketch would have been far better than
the mobile phone photo...)
On a more serious issue than birding, which is after all only a hobby, I´m
seriously concerned about calls for a perfectly legal website to be "shut
down", or for information about natural history events on publicly-owned
land
in other areas to be suppressed or kept "secret". There is a Civil Liberties
issue
here, and I had assumed that the former Irish obsessions with Censorship,
Secrecy and Suppression might have been abandoned (Ryan Report,
anyone?). Birders are a subset of the General Public, not a select élite or
secret society. If any one birder or group decide not to disclose
information,
that is their Prerogative. But for them to try to impose that secrecy clause
on
others, or prevent others from communicating, is simply illegal and absurd,
and
perhaps a little Common Sense may come with Maturity. I am personally
grateful for the information I´m able to access, from the irishbirding
website,
from BINS, or from other birders, as they have enabled me to pursue one of
my hobbies and derive much pleasure from same.
Meanwhile I assume that birders and the general public have enough
Maturity and Common Sense to avoid disturbing nesting woodpeckers. I also
have faith in the woodpeckers policy of excavating nestholes high up in
trees....a canny trick that seems to keep them safe throughout the rest of
Europe.
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Éanna Ó Floinn <oflynne AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:59:17 +0100
Thank you for that Alan. Indeed all are entitled to express their opinion, as
am
I. I´m not sure if we´re talking about the same site, though....I don´t think
anyone "stayed too long" at the Bray site, because it´s on private land. My
main point, if you read my (admittedly long-winded) post, is that dissemination
of the information regarding the Bray site, by a website or anyone else, did
not lead to any disturbance, and the matter was handled well by all
concerned. (As regards my artistic abilities, I really must clarify lest you
think
highly of me...they´re terrible. But not as bad as my mobile phone-scoping
talents).
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Éanna Ó Floinn <oflynne AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:51:07 +0100
A clarification...in my previous post about the Bray woodpeckers, I said that I
was asked "by an official of BI" to monitor the site. I should have said "by
two
officials of BWI"... It was two officials of Birdwatch Ireland who located the
nesthole. So my apologies to them both, and to the BWI and BI organisations
for confusing their acronyms.
In any case, the handling of the issue by BWI, the Estate and its
gamekeeper was exemplary, and I can see no cause for any concern regarding
the Bray GSW site...except that the Male disappeared suddenly in the second
week of April, presumably taken by a Sparrowhawk that showed an unhealthy
interest in the nest-hole throughout. The observed nestling was raised by a
lone female.
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Alan Horan <Mail AT ALANHORAN.COM>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:42:13 +0100
Eanna,
you are right, identifying a Great Spotted Woodpecker is not rocket science,
half the country knows that they breed in Kilruddery and you dont have to be an
official from "BI" to find its nest hole, its very easy.
Some birders on this forum expressed an opinion that some other birders were
staying too close for too long near the nest and they are perfectly entitled to
that opinion.
I'm sure you have other important responsibilities and interests, dont we all
and I'm sure you are a brilliant atrist but thats hardly relevent to this
thread.
Alan.
----- Original Message -----
From: Éanna Ó Floinn
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: Great Spotted Woodpecker
New to IBN, I am perturbed by the tone and content of some of the debate
surrounding GSW sites, and wish to clarify a few issues in relation to the
Bray
birds.
It seems that it is being maintained that some birders, and the irishbirding
website, by posting the presence of GSW in Killruddery/Hollybrook Park/South
Bray, have somehow put these birds in peril.
I have been monitoring and reporting GSW activity in the area since August
2008. The presence of GSW is no secret, and is not privy to a select group
called "birders". The families of fourteen neighbours and work colleagues have
reported sightings of GSW in their gardens/neighbourhoods. One bird
frequented the trees in Killruddery Estate, and out of courtesy to the Estate
Owners, by whose permission I have access to the Estate, I informed them of
the presence of the bird. Being keen conservationists, they were justifiably
delighted, and I continued to inform both them, irishbirding, and "BINS" of
the
GSW activity.
In February, drumming began, and was noted by many residents of the
Southern Cross area. It was therefore public information.
In March, the Estate kindly informed me that their Gamekeeper had seen a
pair engaged in courtship behaviour. I subsequently identified an area where a
adult seemed to be bringing food to a particular area. This site is off-limits
to
the public. I informed both the Estate owners and BI, an official of whom
located a nest-hole and asked me to monitor it for activity. This I did, from
the exact location instructed, causing no disturbance to the bird, and as
often
as possible within the time-constraints of my other more important
responsibilites and other interests.
The exact location of the nest-hole was never disclosed to any birder,
website, hotline or authority, out of respect for Killruddery Estate and its
privacy. Any claim that the Irishbirding website, or any poster on any other
website, endangered the birds by posting the words "Killruddery" or "Bray" is
simply fatuous. Half of Bray knows there are woodpeckers there, and the
general public is perhaps more intelligent in bird matters than
dedicated "birders" assume....one simply has to see a strange B/W bird in
one´s garden, look up a bird-book, and the rest isn´t rocket-science. In any
case, Killruddery Estate covers some six square kilometres, and locating the
nesthole is impossible without breaking the law....the one about not
trespassing on private land.
It has been my policy since the outset that the local community in South
Bray, and Killruddery Estate, have a right to be informed about this rather
exciting natural history event in the area. The irishbirding website, and
BINS,
have kindly made available information on the GSW activity. No-one has
divulged any information about a nesthole. I am proud to say that now, my
own kids and at least thirty others in the neighbourhood can identify a GSW
by alarm-call or drumming, and can distinguish between a juvenile and an
adult.
All eagerly await GSW in their gardens and wil be keenly putting out peanut-
feeders and fat-balls. No-one searched for a nest-hole, and no birder or
website endangered the nesthole when it was occupied.
On first observing a juvenile GSW in the nesthole, I put my mobile phone to
my binoculars and took two "photographs", for the record. These I sent to BI
and irishbirding. There is absolutely no possibility that these extremely
blurred
and amateurish images could be used to locate the site...which, as I said,
cannot be legally accessed in any case by the public without permission. If
any birder attempted to enter the area without permission, they would be
politely escorted off the Estate.
As regards the law, I am uncertain, after reading the postings on the issue,
if I broke the law or not. I don´t have a licence, but I imagine that the
relevant legislation has been severely overtaken by technology. I am happy to
answer to any authorities on the issue, and take the consequences. I assume
that if I had sat in the same spot, observed the nestling, and sketched it, no
law would have been broken. (And my sketch would have been far better than
the mobile phone photo...)
On a more serious issue than birding, which is after all only a hobby, I´m
seriously concerned about calls for a perfectly legal website to be "shut
down", or for information about natural history events on publicly-owned land
in other areas to be suppressed or kept "secret". There is a Civil Liberties
issue
here, and I had assumed that the former Irish obsessions with Censorship,
Secrecy and Suppression might have been abandoned (Ryan Report,
anyone?). Birders are a subset of the General Public, not a select élite or
secret society. If any one birder or group decide not to disclose information,
that is their Prerogative. But for them to try to impose that secrecy clause
on
others, or prevent others from communicating, is simply illegal and absurd,
and
perhaps a little Common Sense may come with Maturity. I am personally
grateful for the information I´m able to access, from the irishbirding
website,
from BINS, or from other birders, as they have enabled me to pursue one of
my hobbies and derive much pleasure from same.
Meanwhile I assume that birders and the general public have enough
Maturity and Common Sense to avoid disturbing nesting woodpeckers. I also
have faith in the woodpeckers policy of excavating nestholes high up in
trees....a canny trick that seems to keep them safe throughout the rest of
Europe.
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05:54:00
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:14:45 +0100
Eanna,
The previous thread regarding the woodpeckers was about a nest hole in
derrybawn and one where birders, photographers, twitchers etc behaved
terribly at. The site was spread around and countless people went to visit
the site and from the photos and from seeing it myself they were basically
under the nest. This is not on full stop. You were fortunate in that the
bray birds are off limits, the nest site innaccessable and 'protected'.
As regards my call for the irishbirdnews site to be shut down, I think if
joe and other contributors are going to release the news of sensitive birds,
the site should be shut down immediately.
I remember talking to you about your dissapointment at the behaviour of
certain individuals at the nightjar site in Wexford. You were of the same
opinion then as I am now regarding such behaviour.
All the best,
Rob
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Breffni Martin <bmartin AT REGINTEL.COM>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:28:35 +0100
Hi Rick,
In practice codes of conduct generally involve the formation of an
association of some kind (maybe the friendly societies or industrial and
provident societies acts which are a lot les onerous than incorporation) and
a requirement of members to abide by the code. Those who do not may be
penalised in various ways or expelled under the procedures set forth in the
articles of association, constitution or equivalent. Without an association
of some kind the code of conduct has no life as there is no way to enforce
it.
All the best
Breffni
----- Original Message -----
From: "richard mundy"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [IBN-L] rare breeding birds
> Thanks Mike,
>
> I haven't contacted anyone yet about precedents / any legal implications
> or
> whatever, but I will. I'm sure there are experts in these things around
> and
> I'm sure birding communities in other countries have come up against
> similar
> problems so there might even be something out there we can use as a
> template
> (if anyone knows of anything please pass the information on). I don't
> think
> any of that will be a big deal if the code is worded correctly and if
> exceptions (for example wardened sites, atlas surveys, etc) are thought
> of.
> I know consensus is difficult but as I say, if anyone has a problem with
> the
> idea in principle then I think they need to explain what their problem is
> because as far as I can see **publishing these locations serves no
> positive
> purpose whatsoever. I would hope that Birdwatch would ultimately be the
> 'headline' signatory and that local Birdwatch branches would sign-up as
> well, but I don't think it would be appropriate for them to organise it,
> not
> at this stage anyway.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike O'Keeffe
> wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on this
>> forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all
>> sorts
>> of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored, the
>> discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl!
>> Its
>> just a talking shop at the end of the day.
>>
>> The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to be
>> that it should remain that way. There might already be some guidelines
>> published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any
>> conservation
>> websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard mundy"
>> To:
>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
>> Subject: rare breeding birds
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>>>
>>> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a
>>> code
>>> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
>>> breeding
>>> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just did
>>> a
>>> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
>>> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I looked
>>> at
>>> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some county
>>> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>>>
>>> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
>>> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding
>>> Red
>>> Grouse;
>>> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area with
>>> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
>>> breeding
>>> records from the 1970s;
>>> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge
>>> were
>>> seen;
>>> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
>>> records
>>> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>>>
>>> Need I go on?
>>>
>>> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details, why
>>> are
>>> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
>>> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters
>>> and
>>> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
>>> putting
>>> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>>>
>>> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone who
>>> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits records
>>> to
>>> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than to
>>> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry' or
>>> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone would
>>> want
>>> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>>>
>>> *Breeding season records of:
>>> Birds Directive Annex I species;
>>> Red List species;
>>> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
>>> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
>>> namely
>>> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>>>
>>> We can then get a list of species together and a register of individuals
>>> and
>>> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>>>
>>> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need to
>>> step forward and expain why not.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick Mundy
>>>
>>>
>
>
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Tony Kavanagh <tonyjkavanagh AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:54:51 +0100
Ah don't worry about it, they'not tough guys really I think you'll be
safe ......lol,
TK
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Éanna Ó wrote:
> Thanks Tony! I bet I get in loads of trouble now....;)
>
>
> ----- "Tony Kavanagh" wrote:
>> Nice one Eanna fair play
>>
>> TK
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Éanna Ó Floinn
>> wrote:
>> > New to IBN, I am perturbed by the tone and content of some of the
>> debate
>> > surrounding GSW sites, and wish to clarify a few issues in relation
>> to the Bray
>> > birds.
>> > It seems that it is being maintained that some birders, and the
>> irishbirding
>> > website, by posting the presence of GSW in Killruddery/Hollybrook
>> Park/South
>> > Bray, have somehow put these birds in peril.
>> > I have been monitoring and reporting GSW activity in the area since
>> August
>> > 2008. The presence of GSW is no secret, and is not privy to a select
>> group
>> > called "birders". The families of fourteen neighbours and work
>> colleagues have
>> > reported sightings of GSW in their gardens/neighbourhoods. One bird
>> > frequented the trees in Killruddery Estate, and out of courtesy to
>> the Estate
>> > Owners, by whose permission I have access to the Estate, I informed
>> them of
>> > the presence of the bird. Being keen conservationists, they were
>> justifiably
>> > delighted, and I continued to inform both them, irishbirding, and
>> "BINS" of the
>> > GSW activity.
>> > In February, drumming began, and was noted by many residents of
>> the
>> > Southern Cross area. It was therefore public information.
>> > In March, the Estate kindly informed me that their Gamekeeper had
>> seen a
>> > pair engaged in courtship behaviour. I subsequently identified an
>> area where a
>> > adult seemed to be bringing food to a particular area. This site is
>> off-limits to
>> > the public. I informed both the Estate owners and BI, an official of
>> whom
>> > located a nest-hole and asked me to monitor it for activity. This I
>> did, from
>> > the exact location instructed, causing no disturbance to the bird,
>> and as often
>> > as possible within the time-constraints of my other more important
>> > responsibilites and other interests.
>> > The exact location of the nest-hole was never disclosed to any
>> birder,
>> > website, hotline or authority, out of respect for Killruddery Estate
>> and its
>> > privacy. Any claim that the Irishbirding website, or any poster on
>> any other
>> > website, endangered the birds by posting the words "Killruddery" or
>> "Bray" is
>> > simply fatuous. Half of Bray knows there are woodpeckers there, and
>> the
>> > general public is perhaps more intelligent in bird matters than
>> > dedicated "birders" assume....one simply has to see a strange B/W
>> bird in
>> > one´s garden, look up a bird-book, and the rest isn´t
>> rocket-science. In any
>> > case, Killruddery Estate covers some six square kilometres, and
>> locating the
>> > nesthole is impossible without breaking the law....the one about
>> not
>> > trespassing on private land.
>> > It has been my policy since the outset that the local community in
>> South
>> > Bray, and Killruddery Estate, have a right to be informed about this
>> rather
>> > exciting natural history event in the area. The irishbirding
>> website, and BINS,
>> > have kindly made available information on the GSW activity. No-one
>> has
>> > divulged any information about a nesthole. I am proud to say that
>> now, my
>> > own kids and at least thirty others in the neighbourhood can
>> identify a GSW
>> > by alarm-call or drumming, and can distinguish between a juvenile
>> and an adult.
>> > All eagerly await GSW in their gardens and wil be keenly putting out
>> peanut-
>> > feeders and fat-balls. No-one searched for a nest-hole, and no
>> birder or
>> > website endangered the nesthole when it was occupied.
>> > On first observing a juvenile GSW in the nesthole, I put my mobile
>> phone to
>> > my binoculars and took two "photographs", for the record. These I
>> sent to BI
>> > and irishbirding. There is absolutely no possibility that these
>> extremely blurred
>> > and amateurish images could be used to locate the site...which, as I
>> said,
>> > cannot be legally accessed in any case by the public without
>> permission. If
>> > any birder attempted to enter the area without permission, they
>> would be
>> > politely escorted off the Estate.
>> > As regards the law, I am uncertain, after reading the postings on
>> the issue,
>> > if I broke the law or not. I don´t have a licence, but I imagine
>> that the
>> > relevant legislation has been severely overtaken by technology. I am
>> happy to
>> > answer to any authorities on the issue, and take the consequences. I
>> assume
>> > that if I had sat in the same spot, observed the nestling, and
>> sketched it, no
>> > law would have been broken. (And my sketch would have been far
>> better than
>> > the mobile phone photo...)
>> > On a more serious issue than birding, which is after all only a
>> hobby, I´m
>> > seriously concerned about calls for a perfectly legal website to be
>> "shut
>> > down", or for information about natural history events on
>> publicly-owned land
>> > in other areas to be suppressed or kept "secret". There is a Civil
>> Liberties issue
>> > here, and I had assumed that the former Irish obsessions with
>> Censorship,
>> > Secrecy and Suppression might have been abandoned (Ryan Report,
>> > anyone?). Birders are a subset of the General Public, not a select
>> élite or
>> > secret society. If any one birder or group decide not to disclose
>> information,
>> > that is their Prerogative. But for them to try to impose that
>> secrecy clause on
>> > others, or prevent others from communicating, is simply illegal and
>> absurd, and
>> > perhaps a little Common Sense may come with Maturity. I am
>> personally
>> > grateful for the information I´m able to access, from the
>> irishbirding website,
>> > from BINS, or from other birders, as they have enabled me to pursue
>> one of
>> > my hobbies and derive much pleasure from same.
>> > Meanwhile I assume that birders and the general public have enough
>> > Maturity and Common Sense to avoid disturbing nesting woodpeckers. I
>> also
>> > have faith in the woodpeckers policy of excavating nestholes high up
>> in
>> > trees....a canny trick that seems to keep them safe throughout the
>> rest of
>> > Europe.
>> >
>
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Éanna Ó Floinn <oflynne AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:34:22 +0100
Thanks Tony! I bet I get in loads of trouble now....;)
----- "Tony Kavanagh" wrote:
> Nice one Eanna fair play
>
> TK
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Éanna Ó Floinn
> wrote:
> > New to IBN, I am perturbed by the tone and content of some of the
> debate
> > surrounding GSW sites, and wish to clarify a few issues in relation
> to the Bray
> > birds.
> > Â It seems that it is being maintained that some birders, and the
> irishbirding
> > website, by posting the presence of GSW in Killruddery/Hollybrook
> Park/South
> > Bray, have somehow put these birds in peril.
> > Â I have been monitoring and reporting GSW activity in the area since
> August
> > 2008. The presence of GSW is no secret, and is not privy to a select
> group
> > called "birders". The families of fourteen neighbours and work
> colleagues have
> > reported sightings of GSW in their gardens/neighbourhoods. One bird
> > frequented the trees in Killruddery Estate, and out of courtesy to
> the Estate
> > Owners, by whose permission I have access to the Estate, I informed
> them of
> > the presence of the bird. Being keen conservationists, they were
> justifiably
> > delighted, and I continued to inform both them, irishbirding, and
> "BINS" of the
> > GSW activity.
> > Â In February, drumming began, and was noted by many residents of
> the
> > Southern Cross area. It was therefore public information.
> > Â In March, the Estate kindly informed me that their Gamekeeper had
> seen a
> > pair engaged in courtship behaviour. I subsequently identified an
> area where a
> > adult seemed to be bringing food to a particular area. This site is
> off-limits to
> > the public. I informed both the Estate owners and BI, an official of
> whom
> > located a nest-hole and asked me to monitor it for activity. This I
> did, from
> > the exact location instructed, causing no disturbance to the bird,
> and as often
> > as possible within the time-constraints of my other more important
> > responsibilites and other interests.
> > Â The exact location of the nest-hole was never disclosed to any
> birder,
> > website, hotline or authority, out of respect for Killruddery Estate
> and its
> > privacy. Any claim that the Irishbirding website, or any poster on
> any other
> > website, endangered the birds by posting the words "Killruddery" or
> "Bray" is
> > simply fatuous. Half of Bray knows there are woodpeckers there, and
> the
> > general public is perhaps more intelligent in bird matters than
> > dedicated "birders" assume....one simply has to see a strange B/W
> bird in
> > one´s garden, look up a bird-book, and the rest isn´t
> rocket-science. In any
> > case, Killruddery Estate covers some six square kilometres, and
> locating the
> > nesthole is impossible without breaking the law....the one about
> not
> > trespassing on private land.
> > Â It has been my policy since the outset that the local community in
> South
> > Bray, and Killruddery Estate, have a right to be informed about this
> rather
> > exciting natural history event in the area. The irishbirding
> website, and BINS,
> > have kindly made available information on the GSW activity. No-one
> has
> > divulged any information about a nesthole. I am proud to say that
> now, my
> > own kids and at least thirty others in the neighbourhood can
> identify a GSW
> > by alarm-call or drumming, and can distinguish between a juvenile
> and an adult.
> > All eagerly await GSW in their gardens and wil be keenly putting out
> peanut-
> > feeders and fat-balls. No-one searched for a nest-hole, and no
> birder or
> > website endangered the nesthole when it was occupied.
> > Â On first observing a juvenile GSW in the nesthole, I put my mobile
> phone to
> > my binoculars and took two "photographs", for the record. These I
> sent to BI
> > and irishbirding. There is absolutely no possibility that these
> extremely blurred
> > and amateurish images could be used to locate the site...which, as I
> said,
> > cannot be legally accessed in any case by the public without
> permission. If
> > any birder attempted to enter the area without permission, they
> would be
> > politely escorted off the Estate.
> > Â As regards the law, I am uncertain, after reading the postings on
> the issue,
> > if I broke the law or not. I don´t have a licence, but I imagine
> that the
> > relevant legislation has been severely overtaken by technology. I am
> happy to
> > answer to any authorities on the issue, and take the consequences. I
> assume
> > that if I had sat in the same spot, observed the nestling, and
> sketched it, no
> > law would have been broken. (And my sketch would have been far
> better than
> > the mobile phone photo...)
> > Â On a more serious issue than birding, which is after all only a
> hobby, I´m
> > seriously concerned about calls for a perfectly legal website to be
> "shut
> > down", or for information about natural history events on
> publicly-owned land
> > in other areas to be suppressed or kept "secret". There is a Civil
> Liberties issue
> > here, and I had assumed that the former Irish obsessions with
> Censorship,
> > Secrecy and Suppression might have been abandoned (Ryan Report,
> > anyone?). Birders are a subset of the General Public, not a select
> élite or
> > secret society. If any one birder or group decide not to disclose
> information,
> > that is their Prerogative. But for them to try to impose that
> secrecy clause on
> > others, or prevent others from communicating, is simply illegal and
> absurd, and
> > perhaps a little Common Sense may come with Maturity. I am
> personally
> > grateful for the information I´m able to access, from the
> irishbirding website,
> > from BINS, or from other birders, as they have enabled me to pursue
> one of
> > my hobbies and derive much pleasure from same.
> > Â Meanwhile I assume that birders and the general public have enough
> > Maturity and Common Sense to avoid disturbing nesting woodpeckers. I
> also
> > have faith in the woodpeckers policy of excavating nestholes high up
> in
> > trees....a canny trick that seems to keep them safe throughout the
> rest of
> > Europe.
> >
Subject: Re: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Tony Kavanagh <tonyjkavanagh AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:31:32 +0100
Nice one Eanna fair play
TK
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Éanna Ó Floinn wrote:
> New to IBN, I am perturbed by the tone and content of some of the debate
> surrounding GSW sites, and wish to clarify a few issues in relation to the
Bray
> birds.
> It seems that it is being maintained that some birders, and the irishbirding
> website, by posting the presence of GSW in Killruddery/Hollybrook Park/South
> Bray, have somehow put these birds in peril.
> I have been monitoring and reporting GSW activity in the area since August
> 2008. The presence of GSW is no secret, and is not privy to a select group
> called "birders". The families of fourteen neighbours and work colleagues
have
> reported sightings of GSW in their gardens/neighbourhoods. One bird
> frequented the trees in Killruddery Estate, and out of courtesy to the Estate
> Owners, by whose permission I have access to the Estate, I informed them of
> the presence of the bird. Being keen conservationists, they were justifiably
> delighted, and I continued to inform both them, irishbirding, and "BINS" of
the
> GSW activity.
> In February, drumming began, and was noted by many residents of the
> Southern Cross area. It was therefore public information.
> In March, the Estate kindly informed me that their Gamekeeper had seen a
> pair engaged in courtship behaviour. I subsequently identified an area where
a
> adult seemed to be bringing food to a particular area. This site is
off-limits to
> the public. I informed both the Estate owners and BI, an official of whom
> located a nest-hole and asked me to monitor it for activity. This I did, from
> the exact location instructed, causing no disturbance to the bird, and as
often
> as possible within the time-constraints of my other more important
> responsibilites and other interests.
> The exact location of the nest-hole was never disclosed to any birder,
> website, hotline or authority, out of respect for Killruddery Estate and its
> privacy. Any claim that the Irishbirding website, or any poster on any other
> website, endangered the birds by posting the words "Killruddery" or "Bray" is
> simply fatuous. Half of Bray knows there are woodpeckers there, and the
> general public is perhaps more intelligent in bird matters than
> dedicated "birders" assume....one simply has to see a strange B/W bird in
> one´s garden, look up a bird-book, and the rest isn´t rocket-science. In any
> case, Killruddery Estate covers some six square kilometres, and locating the
> nesthole is impossible without breaking the law....the one about not
> trespassing on private land.
> It has been my policy since the outset that the local community in South
> Bray, and Killruddery Estate, have a right to be informed about this rather
> exciting natural history event in the area. The irishbirding website, and
BINS,
> have kindly made available information on the GSW activity. No-one has
> divulged any information about a nesthole. I am proud to say that now, my
> own kids and at least thirty others in the neighbourhood can identify a GSW
> by alarm-call or drumming, and can distinguish between a juvenile and an
adult.
> All eagerly await GSW in their gardens and wil be keenly putting out peanut-
> feeders and fat-balls. No-one searched for a nest-hole, and no birder or
> website endangered the nesthole when it was occupied.
> On first observing a juvenile GSW in the nesthole, I put my mobile phone to
> my binoculars and took two "photographs", for the record. These I sent to BI
> and irishbirding. There is absolutely no possibility that these extremely
blurred
> and amateurish images could be used to locate the site...which, as I said,
> cannot be legally accessed in any case by the public without permission. If
> any birder attempted to enter the area without permission, they would be
> politely escorted off the Estate.
> As regards the law, I am uncertain, after reading the postings on the issue,
> if I broke the law or not. I don´t have a licence, but I imagine that the
> relevant legislation has been severely overtaken by technology. I am happy to
> answer to any authorities on the issue, and take the consequences. I assume
> that if I had sat in the same spot, observed the nestling, and sketched it,
no
> law would have been broken. (And my sketch would have been far better than
> the mobile phone photo...)
> On a more serious issue than birding, which is after all only a hobby, I´m
> seriously concerned about calls for a perfectly legal website to be "shut
> down", or for information about natural history events on publicly-owned land
> in other areas to be suppressed or kept "secret". There is a Civil Liberties
issue
> here, and I had assumed that the former Irish obsessions with Censorship,
> Secrecy and Suppression might have been abandoned (Ryan Report,
> anyone?). Birders are a subset of the General Public, not a select élite or
> secret society. If any one birder or group decide not to disclose
information,
> that is their Prerogative. But for them to try to impose that secrecy clause
on
> others, or prevent others from communicating, is simply illegal and absurd,
and
> perhaps a little Common Sense may come with Maturity. I am personally
> grateful for the information I´m able to access, from the irishbirding
website,
> from BINS, or from other birders, as they have enabled me to pursue one of
> my hobbies and derive much pleasure from same.
> Meanwhile I assume that birders and the general public have enough
> Maturity and Common Sense to avoid disturbing nesting woodpeckers. I also
> have faith in the woodpeckers policy of excavating nestholes high up in
> trees....a canny trick that seems to keep them safe throughout the rest of
> Europe.
>
Subject: Great Spotted Woodpecker
From: Éanna Ó Floinn <oflynne AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:03:26 +0100
New to IBN, I am perturbed by the tone and content of some of the debate
surrounding GSW sites, and wish to clarify a few issues in relation to the Bray
birds.
It seems that it is being maintained that some birders, and the irishbirding
website, by posting the presence of GSW in Killruddery/Hollybrook Park/South
Bray, have somehow put these birds in peril.
I have been monitoring and reporting GSW activity in the area since August
2008. The presence of GSW is no secret, and is not privy to a select group
called "birders". The families of fourteen neighbours and work colleagues have
reported sightings of GSW in their gardens/neighbourhoods. One bird
frequented the trees in Killruddery Estate, and out of courtesy to the Estate
Owners, by whose permission I have access to the Estate, I informed them of
the presence of the bird. Being keen conservationists, they were justifiably
delighted, and I continued to inform both them, irishbirding, and "BINS" of the
GSW activity.
In February, drumming began, and was noted by many residents of the
Southern Cross area. It was therefore public information.
In March, the Estate kindly informed me that their Gamekeeper had seen a
pair engaged in courtship behaviour. I subsequently identified an area where a
adult seemed to be bringing food to a particular area. This site is off-limits
to
the public. I informed both the Estate owners and BI, an official of whom
located a nest-hole and asked me to monitor it for activity. This I did, from
the exact location instructed, causing no disturbance to the bird, and as often
as possible within the time-constraints of my other more important
responsibilites and other interests.
The exact location of the nest-hole was never disclosed to any birder,
website, hotline or authority, out of respect for Killruddery Estate and its
privacy. Any claim that the Irishbirding website, or any poster on any other
website, endangered the birds by posting the words "Killruddery" or "Bray" is
simply fatuous. Half of Bray knows there are woodpeckers there, and the
general public is perhaps more intelligent in bird matters than
dedicated "birders" assume....one simply has to see a strange B/W bird in
one´s garden, look up a bird-book, and the rest isn´t rocket-science. In any
case, Killruddery Estate covers some six square kilometres, and locating the
nesthole is impossible without breaking the law....the one about not
trespassing on private land.
It has been my policy since the outset that the local community in South
Bray, and Killruddery Estate, have a right to be informed about this rather
exciting natural history event in the area. The irishbirding website, and BINS,
have kindly made available information on the GSW activity. No-one has
divulged any information about a nesthole. I am proud to say that now, my
own kids and at least thirty others in the neighbourhood can identify a GSW
by alarm-call or drumming, and can distinguish between a juvenile and an adult.
All eagerly await GSW in their gardens and wil be keenly putting out peanut-
feeders and fat-balls. No-one searched for a nest-hole, and no birder or
website endangered the nesthole when it was occupied.
On first observing a juvenile GSW in the nesthole, I put my mobile phone to
my binoculars and took two "photographs", for the record. These I sent to BI
and irishbirding. There is absolutely no possibility that these extremely
blurred
and amateurish images could be used to locate the site...which, as I said,
cannot be legally accessed in any case by the public without permission. If
any birder attempted to enter the area without permission, they would be
politely escorted off the Estate.
As regards the law, I am uncertain, after reading the postings on the issue,
if I broke the law or not. I don´t have a licence, but I imagine that the
relevant legislation has been severely overtaken by technology. I am happy to
answer to any authorities on the issue, and take the consequences. I assume
that if I had sat in the same spot, observed the nestling, and sketched it, no
law would have been broken. (And my sketch would have been far better than
the mobile phone photo...)
On a more serious issue than birding, which is after all only a hobby, I´m
seriously concerned about calls for a perfectly legal website to be "shut
down", or for information about natural history events on publicly-owned land
in other areas to be suppressed or kept "secret". There is a Civil Liberties
issue
here, and I had assumed that the former Irish obsessions with Censorship,
Secrecy and Suppression might have been abandoned (Ryan Report,
anyone?). Birders are a subset of the General Public, not a select élite or
secret society. If any one birder or group decide not to disclose information,
that is their Prerogative. But for them to try to impose that secrecy clause on
others, or prevent others from communicating, is simply illegal and absurd, and
perhaps a little Common Sense may come with Maturity. I am personally
grateful for the information I´m able to access, from the irishbirding website,
from BINS, or from other birders, as they have enabled me to pursue one of
my hobbies and derive much pleasure from same.
Meanwhile I assume that birders and the general public have enough
Maturity and Common Sense to avoid disturbing nesting woodpeckers. I also
have faith in the woodpeckers policy of excavating nestholes high up in
trees....a canny trick that seems to keep them safe throughout the rest of
Europe.
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Paul Walsh <p.walsh AT NCRI.IE>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:14:07 +0100
Rick,
Something I meant to mention, specifically re your "not understanding
why": One specific reason why I go out of my way to include records of
scarce breeders or potential breeders on the Waterford Birds website -
at varying levels of vagueness- is to encourage reports from observers
who have no interest or expertise regarding scarce migrants/vagrants, or
who might otherwise report the migrants only. We all know (or at least
pretend!) that the scarce breeders matter more - but if they're off the
map, assumption may be made that "someone" is out there doing all the
surveys and finding lots (or none) behind the scenes. Or the opposite,
that those species don't matter.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Walsh
Sent: 29 June 2009 12:52
To: 'Irish Bird Network'
Subject: RE: rare breeding birds
Hi Rick,
I'd like to add my support, in principle, to your suggestion but would
caution against making too many presumptions or preconditions - the
proposed code of conduct hasn't been agreed or drafted yet and there's a
danger that people may opt out if they feel they must sign up to
everything already suggested. In other words, some extra realism and
proportionality. Various codes of conduct do exist in the UK,
accessible via RSPB and BTO-atlas websites for example, and maybe from
BWI here, but they don't get down to the level of detail that may be
needed. So, yes, room for improvement and clarification, if done
properly.
Keep breeding locations, and likely breeding locations, of certain
sensitive species vague? - yes (but to varying degrees and with careful
thought re which species and why - throwing Long-eared Owl into the same
category as Snowy Owl seems over the top, though I put Barn Owl in
between).
Publish/disseminate information only at county level all the
species/groups mentioned? - no. 10-km level breeding information is
widely available in published and forthcoming national atlases, with
some notable exceptions. ["East Waterford" was an attempt - feeble
perhaps! - on my part to make deluded, but for some folk (myself
included) hearing that "species X is breeding or on territory in the
county" is almost on a par with "breeding in the country" (or on a David
Attenborough programme) - temptation is almost to say "so what", doesn't
do much to enthuse me to look for more. But if I hear Nightjar is
present in mountain range X, it makes me want to find them in range Y.]
Treat the WWW any different from widely-available print publications (or
even obscure scientific journals whether or not Irish Birds falls into
that category...)? - no. (Or censor both i.e. be consistent &
non-discriminatory - even the Chinese government are to some extent...)
Local website compilers try do better? - yes, but don't shoot the
messenger/compiler whose main aim is to encourage people (in real time)
to do the fieldwork and report the records that are needed to document
status and formulate conservation policies.
The bottom line for me is: can something be drafted that isn't
holier-than-thou, that is likely to be signed up to by a majority of
thinking observers, and that is not unrealistic / over-ambitious (and
potentially counter-productive) in its attempts to thwart the morons out
there who might wish to shoot raptors etc. They can always shoot Little
Egrets at their local estuary... (Red Grouse is a tougher call, but I'd
rather people, sportsmen included, knew there were grouse about in
particular ranges than have the usual "all the grouse [etc] are gone"
martyrdom - then years later it's true because no-one knew they were
there to conserve)
The annual reports of the Irish Rare Breeding Birds Panel seem to be to
strike a good balance - though at times they err on the over-lenient or
over-restrictive side, i.e. perfection is tricky... Definitely all
information should go to them - if necessary with extra restrictions
such as "publish county" only - and to the atlases, websites and bird
reports.
Cheers,
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
richard mundy
Sent: 27 June 2009 17:47
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
Thanks Mike,
I haven't contacted anyone yet about precedents / any legal implications
or
whatever, but I will. I'm sure there are experts in these things around
and
I'm sure birding communities in other countries have come up against
similar
problems so there might even be something out there we can use as a
template
(if anyone knows of anything please pass the information on). I don't
think
any of that will be a big deal if the code is worded correctly and if
exceptions (for example wardened sites, atlas surveys, etc) are thought
of.
I know consensus is difficult but as I say, if anyone has a problem with
the
idea in principle then I think they need to explain what their problem
is
because as far as I can see **publishing these locations serves no
positive
purpose whatsoever. I would hope that Birdwatch would ultimately be the
'headline' signatory and that local Birdwatch branches would sign-up as
well, but I don't think it would be appropriate for them to organise it,
not
at this stage anyway.
Rick
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike O'Keeffe
wrote:
> Rick,
>
> I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on
this
> forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all
sorts
> of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored,
the
> discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl!
Its
> just a talking shop at the end of the day.
>
> The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to
be
> that it should remain that way. There might already be some
guidelines
> published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any
conservation
> websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard mundy"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
> Subject: rare breeding birds
>
>
>
> All,
>>
>> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a
code
>> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
>> breeding
>> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just
did a
>> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to
be
>> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I
looked
>> at
>> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some
county
>> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>>
>> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
>> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for
breeding Red
>> Grouse;
>> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area
with
>> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
>> breeding
>> records from the 1970s;
>> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey
Partridge
>> were
>> seen;
>> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
>> records
>> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>>
>> Need I go on?
>>
>> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details,
why
>> are
>> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
>> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from
hunters and
>> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
>> putting
>> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>>
>> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone
who
>> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits
records to
>> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than
to
>> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry'
or
>> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone
would
>> want
>> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>>
>> *Breeding season records of:
>> Birds Directive Annex I species;
>> Red List species;
>> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
>> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>>
>> and
>>
>> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
>> namely
>> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>>
>> We can then get a list of species together and a register of
individuals
>> and
>> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>>
>> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need
to
>> step forward and expain why not.
>>
>>
>> Rick Mundy
>>
>>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Paul Walsh <p.walsh AT NCRI.IE>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:52:13 +0100
Hi Rick,
I'd like to add my support, in principle, to your suggestion but would
caution against making too many presumptions or preconditions - the
proposed code of conduct hasn't been agreed or drafted yet and there's a
danger that people may opt out if they feel they must sign up to
everything already suggested. In other words, some extra realism and
proportionality. Various codes of conduct do exist in the UK,
accessible via RSPB and BTO-atlas websites for example, and maybe from
BWI here, but they don't get down to the level of detail that may be
needed. So, yes, room for improvement and clarification, if done
properly.
Keep breeding locations, and likely breeding locations, of certain
sensitive species vague? - yes (but to varying degrees and with careful
thought re which species and why - throwing Long-eared Owl into the same
category as Snowy Owl seems over the top, though I put Barn Owl in
between).
Publish/disseminate information only at county level all the
species/groups mentioned? - no. 10-km level breeding information is
widely available in published and forthcoming national atlases, with
some notable exceptions. ["East Waterford" was an attempt - feeble
perhaps! - on my part to make deluded, but for some folk (myself
included) hearing that "species X is breeding or on territory in the
county" is almost on a par with "breeding in the country" (or on a David
Attenborough programme) - temptation is almost to say "so what", doesn't
do much to enthuse me to look for more. But if I hear Nightjar is
present in mountain range X, it makes me want to find them in range Y.]
Treat the WWW any different from widely-available print publications (or
even obscure scientific journals whether or not Irish Birds falls into
that category...)? - no. (Or censor both i.e. be consistent &
non-discriminatory - even the Chinese government are to some extent...)
Local website compilers try do better? - yes, but don't shoot the
messenger/compiler whose main aim is to encourage people (in real time)
to do the fieldwork and report the records that are needed to document
status and formulate conservation policies.
The bottom line for me is: can something be drafted that isn't
holier-than-thou, that is likely to be signed up to by a majority of
thinking observers, and that is not unrealistic / over-ambitious (and
potentially counter-productive) in its attempts to thwart the morons out
there who might wish to shoot raptors etc. They can always shoot Little
Egrets at their local estuary... (Red Grouse is a tougher call, but I'd
rather people, sportsmen included, knew there were grouse about in
particular ranges than have the usual "all the grouse [etc] are gone"
martyrdom - then years later it's true because no-one knew they were
there to conserve)
The annual reports of the Irish Rare Breeding Birds Panel seem to be to
strike a good balance - though at times they err on the over-lenient or
over-restrictive side, i.e. perfection is tricky... Definitely all
information should go to them - if necessary with extra restrictions
such as "publish county" only - and to the atlases, websites and bird
reports.
Cheers,
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of
richard mundy
Sent: 27 June 2009 17:47
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
Thanks Mike,
I haven't contacted anyone yet about precedents / any legal implications
or
whatever, but I will. I'm sure there are experts in these things around
and
I'm sure birding communities in other countries have come up against
similar
problems so there might even be something out there we can use as a
template
(if anyone knows of anything please pass the information on). I don't
think
any of that will be a big deal if the code is worded correctly and if
exceptions (for example wardened sites, atlas surveys, etc) are thought
of.
I know consensus is difficult but as I say, if anyone has a problem with
the
idea in principle then I think they need to explain what their problem
is
because as far as I can see **publishing these locations serves no
positive
purpose whatsoever. I would hope that Birdwatch would ultimately be the
'headline' signatory and that local Birdwatch branches would sign-up as
well, but I don't think it would be appropriate for them to organise it,
not
at this stage anyway.
Rick
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike O'Keeffe
wrote:
> Rick,
>
> I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on
this
> forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all
sorts
> of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored,
the
> discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl!
Its
> just a talking shop at the end of the day.
>
> The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to
be
> that it should remain that way. There might already be some
guidelines
> published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any
conservation
> websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard mundy"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
> Subject: rare breeding birds
>
>
>
> All,
>>
>> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a
code
>> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
>> breeding
>> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just
did a
>> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to
be
>> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I
looked
>> at
>> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some
county
>> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>>
>> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
>> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for
breeding Red
>> Grouse;
>> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area
with
>> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
>> breeding
>> records from the 1970s;
>> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey
Partridge
>> were
>> seen;
>> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
>> records
>> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>>
>> Need I go on?
>>
>> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details,
why
>> are
>> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
>> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from
hunters and
>> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
>> putting
>> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>>
>> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone
who
>> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits
records to
>> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than
to
>> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry'
or
>> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone
would
>> want
>> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>>
>> *Breeding season records of:
>> Birds Directive Annex I species;
>> Red List species;
>> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
>> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>>
>> and
>>
>> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
>> namely
>> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>>
>> We can then get a list of species together and a register of
individuals
>> and
>> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>>
>> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need
to
>> step forward and expain why not.
>>
>>
>> Rick Mundy
>>
>>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Dermot McCabe <dermot.mccabe AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:28:58 +0100
"Who is Mike Hunt?" Does anybody say the words aloud to themselves?
The questions only repeat the "joke" and keep the perpetrator giggling
in his juvenile mischief. Leave him be without replying.
Dermot
2009/6/28 Eugene ARCHER :
> Who is Mike Hunt anyway ? Is Mike Hunt really Owen Foley or is it Yarislav
> again ???
>
> IBN is getting very confusing these days.
>
> Anyone see any good birds at the weekend ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Eugene
>
> Paul & Andrea Kelly wrote:
>>
>> I agree Bob, Harry,
>> The coward called Mike Hunt is likely not even a birder and is just on
>> this forum solely to cause trouble.
>> His two postings have added nothing to the topics commented on and so
>> leads me to think not only is he a coward but a waster that has zero to add
>> to any part of our society.
>>
>> Be gone Mike Hunt.
>>
>> Paul.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Now, having dealt with the reasonably-minded members of this forum,
>>> let me turn to Mike Hunt. That last bit sounds a bit rude, doesn't it?
>>> How amusing! I presume that was the idea, at least. Whoever you are,
>>> and whatever you think of Owen, or any other member of this forum, for
>>> that matter, I would like to ask, on behalf of everyone else here, for
>>> you to refrain from using such language on the IBN...for all we know,
>>> there may be children viewing it. I have noticed that, to date, you
>>> have posted twice on IBN, and both times it was some inane comment,
>>> designed to spark off some controversy, and I would ask that this
>>> potentially important thread not be allowed to descend into more of
>>> the usual slagging (and worse), so I won't waste any more time on your
>>> post, and I would hope that nobody else on here will waste their time
>>> either, but instead focus on the issue at hand.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> I agree with Phil, Micheal etc. the IBN certainly has gone off in a
>>> tangent from its original purpose, its become too personal, but thats
>>> because of that prick Owen Foley.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Harry Hussey <hhussey3 AT YAHOO.COM>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:25:08 +0000
Hi Rob,
I am sorry to see that your experiences with regard to rare breeding birds
should have led to your opinion that all such news is best kept to oneself,
presumably indefinitely, though I can see how the woodpecker situation, in
particular, would have annoyed you.
In an ideal world, I would love to see all birds adequately documented, be
they vagrants, rare breeding birds, early and late dates for migrants, high
counts, commoner species in an Atlas year and so on. I shall move on from
vagrants for the purposes of this discussion, as, while I love to read of past
occurrences, and while vagrancy per se may sometimes act as a survival strategy
in allowing some 'lost' individuals, against the odds, to act as pioneers for
range expansion/shift, most vagrant birds are only as important as the
importance that some of us place on them. I shall also leave the idea of what
should constitute as 'adequate documentation' of such vagrants out of it, as
there are enough of people, on both sides of the fence, with firmly held
positions on this topic, and discussion of that on here often generates less
light and more heat.
Rare/scarce BREEDING birds, however, are more important to document
adequately, I would contend, and it would be a real pity if you, or anyone
else, were to let past indiscretions influence you to keep such observations to
yourself, presumably then, in time, to die with you (hopefully a long way down
the road, Rob!). I would generally support any decision to keep a rare breeding
bird quiet WHILE PRESENT, though I would urge you to at least consider giving
news to a reliable body later in the year, or maybe even a year or two later if
need be, whether that be Paul Hillis, the Irish Raptor Study Group, or any
other relevant authorities. It is my experience that these bodies do not tend
to divulge confidential information: despite having been a member of the Irish
Raptor Study Group for a while, and liasing with them on a regular basis, I
have certainly not been party to any information not already in the public
domain, and I am sure that Paul Hillis
et al are equally discreet.
While I would close by urging you to reconsider your decision,
understandable though it may be under the circumstances, I acknowledge that the
final say is down to you alone, and will not think any less of you should you
decide to withhold all of your sightings of rarities or rare breeders,
regardless of how much I disagree with the actual decision. Might I also urge
you, if you are not already doing so, to (continue to) submit all observations
of COMMON breeding birds as roving records for the Bird Atlas, as coverage is
quite poor, and patchy, in Ireland, and every record counts!
Regards,
Harry
--- On Sun, 28/6/09, Robert Vaughan wrote:
From: Robert Vaughan
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Date: Sunday, 28 June, 2009, 8:45 PM
Thats all great in theory Harry, but remember what happened with the snowy
owls in Glenveagh? They were reported during the foot and mouth crisis to 2
people who should know better and both entered the park to have a look.
I said during the whole woodpecker thread that nobody can be trusted, and
would not even trust a designated 'rare breeding bird recorder'. Everyone
has 'close, trusted' friends and, as I have found, no one can be trusted.
Keep your rarities to yourself and to hell with everyone else,
Rob
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:34:21 +0200
Who is Mike Hunt anyway ? Is Mike Hunt really Owen Foley or is it
Yarislav again ???
IBN is getting very confusing these days.
Anyone see any good birds at the weekend ?
Regards,
Eugene
Paul & Andrea Kelly wrote:
> I agree Bob, Harry,
> The coward called Mike Hunt is likely not even a birder and is just on this
forum solely to cause trouble.
> His two postings have added nothing to the topics commented on and so leads
me to think not only is he a coward but a waster that has zero to add to any
part of our society.
>
> Be gone Mike Hunt.
>
> Paul.
>
>
>
>> Now, having dealt with the reasonably-minded members of this forum,
>> let me turn to Mike Hunt. That last bit sounds a bit rude, doesn't it?
>> How amusing! I presume that was the idea, at least. Whoever you are,
>> and whatever you think of Owen, or any other member of this forum, for
>> that matter, I would like to ask, on behalf of everyone else here, for
>> you to refrain from using such language on the IBN...for all we know,
>> there may be children viewing it. I have noticed that, to date, you
>> have posted twice on IBN, and both times it was some inane comment,
>> designed to spark off some controversy, and I would ask that this
>> potentially important thread not be allowed to descend into more of
>> the usual slagging (and worse), so I won't waste any more time on your
>> post, and I would hope that nobody else on here will waste their time
>> either, but instead focus on the issue at hand.
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> I agree with Phil, Micheal etc. the IBN certainly has gone off in a
>> tangent from its original purpose, its become too personal, but thats
>> because of that prick Owen Foley.
>>
>
>
>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Robert Vaughan <robertvaug AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:45:06 +0100
Thats all great in theory Harry, but remember what happened with the snowy
owls in Glenveagh? They were reported during the foot and mouth crisis to 2
people who should know better and both entered the park to have a look.
I said during the whole woodpecker thread that nobody can be trusted, and
would not even trust a designated 'rare breeding bird recorder'. Everyone
has 'close, trusted' friends and, as I have found, no one can be trusted.
Keep your rarities to yourself and to hell with everyone else,
Rob
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Paul & Andrea Kelly <paulandreakelly AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:02:14 +0100
I agree Bob, Harry,
The coward called Mike Hunt is likely not even a birder and is just on this
forum solely to cause trouble.
His two postings have added nothing to the topics commented on and so leads me
to think not only is he a coward but a waster that has zero to add to any part
of our society.
Be gone Mike Hunt.
Paul.
> Now, having dealt with the reasonably-minded members of this forum,
> let me turn to Mike Hunt. That last bit sounds a bit rude, doesn't it?
> How amusing! I presume that was the idea, at least. Whoever you are,
> and whatever you think of Owen, or any other member of this forum, for
> that matter, I would like to ask, on behalf of everyone else here, for
> you to refrain from using such language on the IBN...for all we know,
> there may be children viewing it. I have noticed that, to date, you
> have posted twice on IBN, and both times it was some inane comment,
> designed to spark off some controversy, and I would ask that this
> potentially important thread not be allowed to descend into more of
> the usual slagging (and worse), so I won't waste any more time on your
> post, and I would hope that nobody else on here will waste their time
> either, but instead focus on the issue at hand.
> Regards,
>
>
> I agree with Phil, Micheal etc. the IBN certainly has gone off in a
> tangent from its original purpose, its become too personal, but thats
> because of that prick Owen Foley.
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Julian Wyllie <jhwyllie AT YAHOO.CO.UK>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:55:00 +0000
Well said Rick, Julian.
--- On Sat, 27/6/09, richard mundy wrote:
From: richard mundy
Subject: rare breeding birds
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Date: Saturday, 27 June, 2009, 2:57 PM
All,
Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a code
of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of breeding
birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just did a
half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I looked at
various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some county
bird groups, etc. I found the following:
Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding Red
Grouse;
A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area with
good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish breeding
records from the 1970s;
Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge were
seen;
Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season records
of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
Need I go on?
I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details, why are
people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters and
others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and putting
this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone who
either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits records to
people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than to
County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry' or
'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone would want
to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
*Breeding season records of:
Birds Directive Annex I species;
Red List species;
All 'birds of prey' including owls;
Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
and
*Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds, namely
Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
We can then get a list of species together and a register of individuals and
groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need to
step forward and expain why not.
Rick Mundy
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Eamonn O'Donnell <bobolink300 AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:22:00 +0100
Not very interesting 'Mike'. Time for you to go away.
Goodbye.
Eamonn
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Mike Hunt wrote:
> I agree with Phil, Micheal etc. the IBN certainly has gone off in a tangent
> from its original purpose, its become too personal, but thats because of
> that prick Owen Foley.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Phil Davis
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:51:17 PM
> Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
>
> Hi Mike, don't want to start a "bar room brawl", but I find your reply
> surprisingly negative. My memory gets worse as I get older, so I wonder if
> you could remind me of some of the regular subjects, other than the IRBC
> and/or submitting records, that have been ignored or turned into a brawl.
> Rick I think you have a great idea, and after the carry on with the GSW a
> very timely one. I can't see anybody on this forum thinking its a bad idea,
> but then one never knows.
> Phil.
>
> www.artofphildavis.com
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Mike O'Keeffe
> Date: 27/06/2009 16:53:05
> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
> Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
>
> Rick,
>
> I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on this
> forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all
> sorts
> of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored, the
> discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl! Its
> just a talking shop at the end of the day.
>
> The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to be
> that it should remain that way. There might already be some guidelines
> published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any
> conservation
> websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> >From: "richard mundy"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
> Subject: rare breeding birds
>
>
> > All,
> >
> > Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a
> code
> > of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
> > breeding
> > birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just did a
> > half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
> > persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I looked
> > at
> > various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some county
> > bird groups, etc. I found the following:
> >
> > Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
> > Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding
> Red
> > Grouse;
> > A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area with
> > good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
> > breeding
> > records from the 1970s;
> > Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge
> > were
> > seen;
> > Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
> > records
> > of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
> >
> > Need I go on?
> >
> > I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details, why
> > are
> > people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
> > information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters
> and
> > others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
> > putting
> > this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
> >
> > I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone who
> > either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits records
> to
> > people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than to
> > County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry' or
> > 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone would
> > want
> > to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
> >
> > *Breeding season records of:
> > Birds Directive Annex I species;
> > Red List species;
> > All 'birds of prey' including owls;
> > Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
> >
> > and
> >
> > *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
> > namely
> > Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
> >
> > We can then get a list of species together and a register of individuals
> > and
> > groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
> >
> > If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need to
> > step forward and expain why not.
> >
> >
> > Rick Mundy
> >
>
>
>
>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Harry Hussey <hhussey3 AT YAHOO.COM>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:47:45 +0000
Hi all,
First off, let me start by saying that I would like to congratulate Rick for
having the nerve to raise the topic of rare breeding birds on here: a few of us
had been talking about the recent upsurge in sensitive information online for a
while, but had never actually done anything about it. I would assume that the
vast majority of right-minded individuals on here would be all in favour of
measures, even if only a voluntary code of conduct, designed to minimise any
negative impact on such species.
As I see it, it is an inevitable, albeit regrettable, by-product of these
days of net access being taken for granted, the expectation of instantaneous
gratification and so on that many people, who no doubt mean the best, just feel
the need to tell the world about their sightings, whether these be of the local
Robins, their first Swallow of the year, or maybe something rarer, maybe
there's a few Schedule 1 species breeding nearby that they are understandably
proud of. We have all been there, the difference was that, for most of us, this
stage in our birding 'career' would have come pre-internet, so we wouldn't have
had photos, wouldn't have had the means to share our excitement and so on.
I suppose a good starting point would be to point out to all who post on IBN
that, while recording these rare breeding birds is vitally important, and any
such observations are indeed much appreciated, perhaps we should all ask
ourselves, before we think of posting news here/on a blog/to one or other of
the information services, whether having the news in the public domain could be
to the detriment of the birds in question? If the answer is yes, then I would
suggest that such news is best not broadcast through these channels, at best
being passed on to 1-2 trusted confidantes, or passed on after the breeding
season has finished. For people who know nobody to tell, perhaps Paul Hillis's
contact details should be available on birdsireland and irishbirding, so that
these birds may be recorded.
I would also like to point out that, even if such records were deemed to be
sensitive, and, as such, not posted on the birding sites, I am sure that Joe
and Eric not publishing/broadcasting such information that they may receive
would not mean that they didn't appreciate getting it in the first place, for
fear that some new birder may think otherwise if their observation of a
summering Short-eared Owl, say, was not included.
Now, having dealt with the reasonably-minded members of this forum, let me
turn to Mike Hunt. That last bit sounds a bit rude, doesn't it? How amusing! I
presume that was the idea, at least. Whoever you are, and whatever you think of
Owen, or any other member of this forum, for that matter, I would like to ask,
on behalf of everyone else here, for you to refrain from using such language on
the IBN...for all we know, there may be children viewing it. I have noticed
that, to date, you have posted twice on IBN, and both times it was some inane
comment, designed to spark off some controversy, and I would ask that this
potentially important thread not be allowed to descend into more of the usual
slagging (and worse), so I won't waste any more time on your post, and I would
hope that nobody else on here will waste their time either, but instead focus
on the issue at hand.
Regards,
Harry
--- On Sat, 27/6/09, Mike Hunt wrote:
From: Mike Hunt
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Date: Saturday, 27 June, 2009, 10:03 PM
I agree with Phil, Micheal etc. the IBN certainly has gone off in a tangent
from its original purpose, its become too personal, but thats because of that
prick Owen Foley.
________________________________
From: Phil Davis
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:51:17 PM
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
Hi Mike, don't want to start a "bar room brawl", but I find your reply
surprisingly negative. My memory gets worse as I get older, so I wonder if
you could remind me of some of the regular subjects, other than the IRBC
and/or submitting records, that have been ignored or turned into a brawl.
Rick I think you have a great idea, and after the carry on with the GSW a
very timely one. I can't see anybody on this forum thinking its a bad idea,
but then one never knows.
Phil.
www.artofphildavis.com
-------Original Message-------
From: Mike O'Keeffe
Date: 27/06/2009 16:53:05
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
Rick,
I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on this
forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all sorts
of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored, the
discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl! Its
just a talking shop at the end of the day.
The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to be
that it should remain that way. There might already be some guidelines
published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any conservation
websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
>From: "richard mundy"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: rare breeding birds
> All,
>
> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a code
> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
> breeding
> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just did a
> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I looked
> at
> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some county
> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>
> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding Red
> Grouse;
> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area with
> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
> breeding
> records from the 1970s;
> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge
> were
> seen;
> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
> records
> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>
> Need I go on?
>
> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details, why
> are
> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters and
> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
> putting
> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>
> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone who
> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits records to
> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than to
> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry' or
> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone would
> want
> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>
> *Breeding season records of:
> Birds Directive Annex I species;
> Red List species;
> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>
> and
>
> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
> namely
> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>
> We can then get a list of species together and a register of individuals
> and
> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>
> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need to
> step forward and expain why not.
>
>
> Rick Mundy
>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Mike Hunt <bulto666 AT YAHOO.COM>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:03:43 -0700
I agree with Phil, Micheal etc. the IBN certainly has gone off in a tangent
from its original purpose, its become too personal, but thats because of that
prick Owen Foley.
________________________________
From: Phil Davis
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:51:17 PM
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
Hi Mike, don't want to start a "bar room brawl", but I find your reply
surprisingly negative. My memory gets worse as I get older, so I wonder if
you could remind me of some of the regular subjects, other than the IRBC
and/or submitting records, that have been ignored or turned into a brawl.
Rick I think you have a great idea, and after the carry on with the GSW a
very timely one. I can't see anybody on this forum thinking its a bad idea,
but then one never knows.
Phil.
www.artofphildavis.com
-------Original Message-------
From: Mike O'Keeffe
Date: 27/06/2009 16:53:05
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
Rick,
I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on this
forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all sorts
of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored, the
discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl! Its
just a talking shop at the end of the day.
The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to be
that it should remain that way. There might already be some guidelines
published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any conservation
websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
>From: "richard mundy"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: rare breeding birds
> All,
>
> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a code
> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
> breeding
> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just did a
> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I looked
> at
> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some county
> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>
> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding Red
> Grouse;
> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area with
> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
> breeding
> records from the 1970s;
> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge
> were
> seen;
> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
> records
> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>
> Need I go on?
>
> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details, why
> are
> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters and
> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
> putting
> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>
> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone who
> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits records to
> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than to
> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry' or
> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone would
> want
> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>
> *Breeding season records of:
> Birds Directive Annex I species;
> Red List species;
> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>
> and
>
> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
> namely
> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>
> We can then get a list of species together and a register of individuals
> and
> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>
> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need to
> step forward and expain why not.
>
>
> Rick Mundy
>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Michael O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:05:54 +0100
Phil,
This forum it seems was originally set up with ornithology and ecology in
mind - perhaps just the kind of forum that would facilitate Rick's request.
It is now a birders chatroom. I dont have time at the moment unfortunately
to delve into the IBN archives for specific links but the comment has been
made more than once that the kinds of threads that tend to run and run here
are along the lines of "where have all the Blackcaps gone" or "what was the
biggest gripper of the last 50 years" or the frequent "pistols at dawn"
postings that have unfortunately taken up so much of the airwaves.
Questions about ID for example tend to get few responses these days and when
requests for a debate on a Twitchers Code of Practice came up one time or a
Photographers Code of Practice they generally yield a lot of heat and very
little light. Sorry if the mail came accross as negative but this has been
my experience on the IBN. Its a shame this forum isnt used for the kind of
thing Rick has requested and if the mood ever changes in here I'm all for
it!
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Davis"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
Hi Mike, don't want to start a "bar room brawl", but I find your reply
surprisingly negative. My memory gets worse as I get older, so I wonder if
you could remind me of some of the regular subjects, other than the IRBC
and/or submitting records, that have been ignored or turned into a brawl.
Rick I think you have a great idea, and after the carry on with the GSW a
very timely one. I can't see anybody on this forum thinking its a bad idea,
but then one never knows.
Phil.
www.artofphildavis.com
-------Original Message-------
From: Mike O'Keeffe
Date: 27/06/2009 16:53:05
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
Rick,
I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on this
forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all sorts
of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored, the
discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl! Its
just a talking shop at the end of the day.
The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to be
that it should remain that way. There might already be some guidelines
published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any conservation
websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
>From: "richard mundy"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: rare breeding birds
> All,
>
> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a code
> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
> breeding
> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just did a
> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I looked
> at
> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some county
> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>
> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding Red
> Grouse;
> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area with
> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
> breeding
> records from the 1970s;
> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge
> were
> seen;
> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
> records
> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>
> Need I go on?
>
> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details, why
> are
> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters and
> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
> putting
> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>
> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone who
> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits records to
> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than to
> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry' or
> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone would
> want
> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>
> *Breeding season records of:
> Birds Directive Annex I species;
> Red List species;
> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>
> and
>
> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
> namely
> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>
> We can then get a list of species together and a register of individuals
> and
> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>
> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need to
> step forward and expain why not.
>
>
> Rick Mundy
>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: Phil Davis <phildavis AT IOL.IE>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:51:17 +0100
Hi Mike, don't want to start a "bar room brawl", but I find your reply
surprisingly negative. My memory gets worse as I get older, so I wonder if
you could remind me of some of the regular subjects, other than the IRBC
and/or submitting records, that have been ignored or turned into a brawl.
Rick I think you have a great idea, and after the carry on with the GSW a
very timely one. I can't see anybody on this forum thinking its a bad idea,
but then one never knows.
Phil.
www.artofphildavis.com
-------Original Message-------
From: Mike O'Keeffe
Date: 27/06/2009 16:53:05
To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
Rick,
I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on this
forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all sorts
of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored, the
discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl! Its
just a talking shop at the end of the day.
The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to be
that it should remain that way. There might already be some guidelines
published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any conservation
websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
Regards
Mike
----- Original Message -----
>From: "richard mundy"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: rare breeding birds
> All,
>
> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a code
> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
> breeding
> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just did a
> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I looked
> at
> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some county
> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>
> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding Red
> Grouse;
> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area with
> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
> breeding
> records from the 1970s;
> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge
> were
> seen;
> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
> records
> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>
> Need I go on?
>
> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details, why
> are
> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters and
> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
> putting
> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>
> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone who
> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits records to
> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than to
> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry' or
> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone would
> want
> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>
> *Breeding season records of:
> Birds Directive Annex I species;
> Red List species;
> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>
> and
>
> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
> namely
> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>
> We can then get a list of species together and a register of individuals
> and
> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>
> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need to
> step forward and expain why not.
>
>
> Rick Mundy
>
Subject: Re: rare breeding birds
From: richard mundy <ruckrick AT GMAIL.COM>
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:46:46 +0100
Thanks Mike,
I haven't contacted anyone yet about precedents / any legal implications or
whatever, but I will. I'm sure there are experts in these things around and
I'm sure birding communities in other countries have come up against similar
problems so there might even be something out there we can use as a template
(if anyone knows of anything please pass the information on). I don't think
any of that will be a big deal if the code is worded correctly and if
exceptions (for example wardened sites, atlas surveys, etc) are thought of.
I know consensus is difficult but as I say, if anyone has a problem with the
idea in principle then I think they need to explain what their problem is
because as far as I can see **publishing these locations serves no positive
purpose whatsoever. I would hope that Birdwatch would ultimately be the
'headline' signatory and that local Birdwatch branches would sign-up as
well, but I don't think it would be appropriate for them to organise it, not
at this stage anyway.
Rick
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mike O'Keeffe wrote:
> Rick,
>
> I think you are spot on. However I doubt you'll find a concensus on this
> forum. There has regularly been calls for debate and concensus on all sorts
> of matters on the IBN and usually the call is either largely ignored, the
> discussion goes way off topic or there is some sort of bar room brawl! Its
> just a talking shop at the end of the day.
>
> The internet is unregulated and the general global consensus seems to be
> that it should remain that way. There might already be some guidelines
> published by rare breeding bird panels. Have you looked at any conservation
> websites or contacted Birdwatch Ireland for advice?
>
> Regards
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard mundy"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 2:57 PM
> Subject: rare breeding birds
>
>
>
> All,
>>
>> Could I suggest that this forum would be the ideal place to develop a code
>> of conduct regarding internet publication of sensitive locations of
>> breeding
>> birds. I believe there is a serious problem developing here. I just did a
>> half hour google search specifically for species that are likely to be
>> persecuted (i.e. shot), either as predators or as 'game birds'. I looked
>> at
>> various websites, some twitcher-orientated, some semi-state, some county
>> bird groups, etc. I found the following:
>>
>> Several townland locations for presumably breeding Hen Harrier;
>> Six-figure Grid References and several townland locations for breeding Red
>> Grouse;
>> A highly specific location for Short-eared Owl, in June, in an area with
>> good breeding habitat, and very close to the only documented Irish
>> breeding
>> records from the 1970s;
>> Reference to a specific field in which recently-fledged Grey Partridge
>> were
>> seen;
>> Countless references to quite specific locations of breeding season
>> records
>> of Buzzards, Long-eared Owls, Marsh Harriers, Hobbies......
>>
>> Need I go on?
>>
>> I do not understand the motivation behind publishing these details, why
>> are
>> people doing it? We need to think about who is going to use this
>> information. Is it actually useful to anyone at all apart from hunters and
>> others who wish to kill these birds? Birds are still persecuted and
>> putting
>> this type of information onto the world wide web has to stop.
>>
>> I would suggest as a starting point to a code of conduct that anyone who
>> either publishes records on the internet, or anyone who submits records to
>> people that do, should agree not to give locations more specific than to
>> County level (or perhaps the portion of the county: 'north Co Kerry' or
>> 'east County Waterford' - although again, I'm not sure why anyone would
>> want
>> to be more specific than the County) for any of the following:
>>
>> *Breeding season records of:
>> Birds Directive Annex I species;
>> Red List species;
>> All 'birds of prey' including owls;
>> Species considered by the Rare Breeding Bird Panels;*
>>
>> and
>>
>> *Records at any time of year of endangered non-migratory game birds,
>> namely
>> Red Grouse and Grey Partridge. *
>>
>> We can then get a list of species together and a register of individuals
>> and
>> groups who are willing to abide by the code of conduct.
>>
>> If anyone doesn't agree in principle with this then I think they need to
>> step forward and expain why not.
>>
>>
>> Rick Mundy
>>
>>
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