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18 Mar Re: Wild Journeys [irishbirdnews ] 18 Mar Wild Journeys [John Coveney Birds ] 18 Mar Re: Playback option [Steve Wing ] 18 Mar Re: House Martins [D Allen ] 18 Mar Re: House Martins [Mike and Sue Cobley ] 18 Mar Re: House Martins [jez simms ] 18 Mar Re: House Martins [Hugh Delaney ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Steve Wing ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Christian Osthoff ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Eugene ARCHER ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Steve Wing ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Mícheál Casey ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Phil Davis ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Mícheál Casey ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Phil Davis ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Eugene ARCHER ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [D Allen ] 17 Mar Re: Playback option [Billy Quinn ] 17 Mar House Martins [jez simms ] 16 Mar Re: Playback option [Richard Mills ] 16 Mar Re: Playback option [Mícheál Cowming ] 16 Mar Re: Playback option [Eugene ARCHER ] 16 Mar Re: Playback option [Eugene ARCHER ] 16 Mar Re: Playback option [Mícheál Cowming ] 16 Mar Re: Playback option [richard mundy ] 16 Mar Re: Playback option [richard mundy ] 16 Mar Playback option [Eugene ARCHER ] 15 Mar Re: The Big Year . . . . coming to a screen near you [peter wolstenholme ] 15 Mar WEBSITE [James ] 15 Mar The Big Year . . . . coming to a screen near you [Eugene ARCHER ] 15 Mar Re: Pied billed grebe [Ronan McLaughlin ] 15 Mar Pacific Diver [] 15 Mar Re: Laurence Morgan [James ] 15 Mar Re: Laurence Morgan [derek charles ] 14 Mar Re: Pied billed grebe [Gerry Power ] 14 Mar Re: Pied billed grebe [Dermot Breen ] 14 Mar Re: Pied billed grebe [Paul Archer - GMail ] 14 Mar Re: Pied billed grebe [Lee G R Evans ] 14 Mar Re: Pied billed grebe [Ronan McLaughlin ] 14 Mar Re: Pied billed grebe [Lee G R Evans ] 14 Mar Re: poison [Breffni Martin ] 13 Mar Re: Pacific Divers [Mike O'Keeffe ] 13 Mar Re: Pied billed grebe [Ronan McLaughlin ] 13 Mar Re: Pacific Divers [John Coveney Birds ] 12 Mar BUFFLEHEAD top billing [Lee G R Evans ] 12 Mar Re: Pacific Divers [Dermot Breen ] 12 Mar Re: Pacific Divers [Ian Forsyth ] 12 Mar Re: Pacific Divers [Paul Keogh ] 12 Mar Brian Carruthers [Joseph Doolan ] 11 Mar Possible new species of storm-petrel off Puerto Montt, Chile [Michael O'Keeffe ] 11 Mar Pacific Divers [Michael O'Keeffe ] 11 Mar Re: That Book [Darragh Sherwin ] 11 Mar Re: That Book [Darragh Sherwin ] 11 Mar Re: That book again [Hugh Delaney ] 10 Mar Brent/Brant [Sean Cronin ] 10 Mar Re: That book again [Steve Wing ] 10 Mar That book again [Eamonn O'Donnell ] 10 Mar Re: That Book [Kieran Fahy ] 10 Mar Re: That Book [Eugene ARCHER ] 10 Mar Re: Petrel rediscovered after 83 years [Eamonn ] 10 Mar Re: That Book ["Casey, Micheal" ] 10 Mar Petrel rediscovered after 83 years ["Fitzpatrick, Dara" ] 10 Mar Re: That Book [Eamonn ] 10 Mar Re: That Book [Eugene ARCHER ] 10 Mar Re: That Book [Eamonn ] 10 Mar Re: That Book ["Fitzpatrick, Dara" ] 10 Mar Re: That Book . . . and others [Eugene ARCHER ] 10 Mar Re: That Book . . . and others [Dermot McCabe ] 10 Mar Ballyvaughan [] 10 Mar Re: That Book . . . and others [Eugene ARCHER ] 10 Mar Re: That Book [] 10 Mar Re: That Book [Eamonn ] 10 Mar Re: That Book [] 10 Mar Re: The Kilcoole Rarities [John Coveney Birds ] 10 Mar Re: The Kilcoole Rarities [Seamus Feeney ] 10 Mar Re: That Book ["Fitzharris, Jim" ] Subject: Re: Wild Journeys From: irishbirdnews <irishbirdnews AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:26:12 -0000 There is also a lot of bird-related stuff included in this series from Manx Shearwaters to Barnacle Geese, Gannets and Swallows. The whole series has been shot in High Definition and looks superb. Eric Subject: Wild Journeys From: John Coveney Birds <birds AT ECOVENEY.IE> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:07:28 -0000 FYI -----Original Message----- From: Mick OConnell [mailto:mick.oconnell AT iwdg.ie] Sent: 18 March 2010 11:57 To: johnc AT ecoveney.ie Subject: "Wild Journeys, RTE 1 TV Sunday 21st March 18:30-19:30" Just in case you've missed the ads on RTE TV, this Sunday 21st March kick-starts the new 3 part, natural history series commissioned by RTE called "Wild Journeys", which tracks the migrations of a range of native Irish species, and follows researchers in their attempts to learn more about their travels. IWDG personnel have once again worked extensively on this series which was filmed by Crossing the Line Films. Of interest to IWDG members will be this Sundays programme between 18:30-19:30 which focuses on the humpback whale and will include extensive footage of the Wexford Humpback breaching sequence, in case you missed it on the news back in January. Later in the series, programme 3 will follow our own Simon Berrow and his recent satellite work on basking sharks. We hope you enjoy the series, and we'd encourage members to either email or write to RTE main switch with support for this programme. The authorities in RTE can be heavily influenced by such feedback which may well encourage them to support other home grown Natural History programming. We hope you enjoy the series. Subject: Re: Playback option From: Steve Wing <steve.ccbo AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:40:55 +0000 Hi, I have just been talking to Jez Blackburn at the Ringing Office at the BTO and... The rule for tape luring in a breeding colony does apply, even for Stormies and Manxies. Anyone who has ringed in either colony will know that a tape lure is definately not needed anyway! However, on headlands and/or islands where breeding has not been proved, it is OK to lure them in. On your last point, Christian, you always did need an endorsement on your permit to allow use of tape lures. Steve On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Steve Wing wrote: > Hi Christian, > > The 'breeding' part on the permit only appeared this year. As far as > Stormies and Manxies go, that is a fair question and I will ask the BTO what > the story is. > > Steve > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Christian Osthoff wrote: > >> Hi Steve, >> Where does Stormie and Manx tape luring come into the whole scheme of >> things. I always assumed that a special permit was not required but the >> Ringing Permit indicates that it does. Was it always taken that cape had >> neither of these breeding and thus made it ok to lure without a permit? >> Regards, >> Christian >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of >> Steve Wing >> Sent: 17 March 2010 18:23 >> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE >> Subject: Re: Playback option >> >> Hi All, >> >> I have just received my Ringing Permit for 2010 and within the text it >> states >> >> "....,use mist nets for taking birds, use MP3/cd/tape playback lures and >> ring fledged birds. >> >> Playback Lures in the Breeding season >> The holder is not authorised to use cd/Tape lures for species that are >> breeding." >> >> I know non-ringers are not likely to be tape luring common birds but what >> would you do if a pair of Thrush Nightingales were reported to be breeding >> in the Wicklow scrub? >> >> Steve >> >> PS I wouldnt use a tape or CD - I've seen and ringed Thrush gales!! >> >> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote: >> >> > Yea I know what it says Micheal, the point I am making is that Joe Blogs >> > arrives at a well known site for Cetti's, plays his tape, gets the bird >> and >> > then goes away, then John Smith arrives and does the same thing and on >> and >> > on and on. Each person excuses his action on the grounds that he only >> did >> it >> > once. >> > I am not being holier than thou, I will admit to having used a tape to >> tick >> > a bird, but with hindsight probably should not have done. >> > Phil. >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mícheál Casey" < >> > michealjcasey AT GMAIL.COM> >> > >> > To: >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:18 PM >> > >> > Subject: Re: Playback option >> > >> > >> > Read it again Phil. >> > >> > Mícheál >> > On 17 Mar 2010, at 15:01, Phil Davis wrote: >> > >> > "The problem arises when many people use >> >> playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if >> >> everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback >> >> every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one >> >> could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm not trying to be devisive but this sounds like the excuse egg >> >> collecters used when I was young. "It's alright to take one egg"! The >> >> problem was, obviously, everyone took one egg until there were none. >> >> >> >> Phil >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene ARCHER" >> >> To: >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:51 PM >> >> Subject: Re: Playback option >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Bill, >> >>> >> >>> I think Rule No. 1 covers it: "The welfare of the bird comes first" >> >>> >> >>> It boils down to common sense in the end. If you use playback and a >> bird >> >>> responds then you've established its presence so you can switch it off >> after >> >>> a couple of minutes. The problem arises when many people use playback >> >>> devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if everyone >> went >> >>> searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback every weekend >> to >> >>> lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one could say that >> it >> was >> >>> inappropriate or excessive use. On the other hand if you went walking >> along >> >>> the Wicklow coast playing a Cetti's call constantly you might find one >> or >> >>> you might not but as you are not continually disturbing the same >> individual >> >>> bird(s) then it could hardly be considered inappropriate or excessive. >> >>> >> >>> Eugene >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Billy Quinn wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Eugene >> >>>> It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter >> of >> >>>> interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these >> tape-luring >> >>>> or >> >>>> playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant >> bird >> >>>> out >> >>>> of cover? >> >>>> Regards >> >>>> Bill >> >>>> >> >>>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi all, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even >> >>>>> ardent >> >>>>> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful >> tool >> >>>>> in >> >>>>> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to >> the >> >>>>> data >> >>>>> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's >> wider >> >>>>> use >> >>>>> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a >> >>>>> budget. >> >>>>> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player >> I >> >>>>> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an >> Altec >> >>>>> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >> >>>>> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my >> >>>>> experience, >> >>>>> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of >> >>>>> use at >> >>>>> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life >> >>>>> was a >> >>>>> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one >> which >> >>>>> takes >> >>>>> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) >> and >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a >> half-full >> >>>>> small >> >>>>> bottle of water. Impressed ? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today >> where >> I >> >>>>> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I >> >>>>> looked >> >>>>> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage >> for >> >>>>> less >> >>>>> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought >> >>>>> another >> >>>>> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will >> >>>>> certainly be >> >>>>> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software >> >>>>> which >> >>>>> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) >> >>>>> volume >> >>>>> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the >> >>>>> range >> >>>>> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in >> >>>>> woodland >> >>>>> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. >> With >> >>>>> that >> >>>>> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even >> >>>>> better. >> >>>>> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion >> >>>>> provided >> >>>>> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to >> >>>>> exceed >> >>>>> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that >> >>>>> over >> >>>>> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a >> device >> >>>>> and >> >>>>> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add >> the >> >>>>> usual >> >>>>> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection >> in >> >>>>> any >> >>>>> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Best regards, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Eugene >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > Subject: Re: House Martins From: D Allen <rosefinch90 AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:26:21 -0000 From the BTO "Migration strategy/routes Given that the House Martin is a common trans-Saharan migrant it is surprising to learn that almost nothing is known about its wintering areas in Africa. Unlike Swallows and Sand Martins which form large roosts in the winter quarters, and can therefore be caught easily for ringing purposes, House Martins do not appear to form communal roosts and are consequently difficult to catch. Without information from ringing, it is difficult to determine where birds from Britain and Ireland spend the winter; there is only one record of a House Martin ringed in Britain and Ireland and found south of the Sahara (out of 250,000 ringed!)". Dave -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Mike and Sue Cobley Sent: 18 March 2010 11:09 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: House Martins Hi All, Does anybody know where these ('our birds') birds spend the winter? If memory serves me right - about 2 years ago - we did not know the answer to this. I have contacted Jez ( our African corespondant) and he also does not know. Mike Cobley ----- Original Message ----- From: "jez simms" To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 4:03 AM Subject: Re: House Martins > Thanks Hugh. I hope we get some more today. > > > JEZ SIMMS: BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER. > ATS GROUP. P.O. BOX OS 2428, OSU, ACCRA, GHANA. > Tel: +233 249 486348|skype jezsimms |www.atsgroup.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf > Of > Hugh > Delaney > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:06 AM > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: House Martins > > Hi Jez, > > it was down to a population decline in UK, they are now on the amber > list there (38% decline since 1970 in the uk since 1970 - stats coming > from > RSPB) > http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/h/housemartin/population_chan > ges.aspx > , birdguides flagged this last spring in response to observers noticing > visibly less numbers overall last year, i can certainly vouch that i don't > see the same numbers in dublin that i did say a decade ago, in recent > summers at least, i can't help thinking that the recent trend of continual > long periods of wet, inclement and cooler periods that now punctuate our > 'summers' are having a disastrous effect on their breeding success, > > belated happy paddies & glad to hear some are on their way! > > regards > > Hugh > > > ----- "jez simms" wrote: >> I remember there was a thread on House Martins in Africa last year >> but can't remember why. Anyhow I thought I'd report that this morning >> over our camp in >> Twangiza, approx 50 kilometers SSW of Bukavu, South Kivu, DRC, we have >> a >> flock of 30+ House Martins feeding over our camp, so they are on their >> way! >> They have arrived with a small fall of Willow Warblers which are all >> in >> full song plus a few Spotted flycatchers. Happy St Pats. >> >> >> >> >> >> JEZ SIMMS: BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER. >> >> ATS GROUP. P.O. BOX OS 2428, OSU, ACCRA, GHANA. >> >> Tel: +233 249 486348|skype jezsimms |www.atsgroup.net Subject: Re: House Martins From: Mike and Sue Cobley <cobley AT UTVINTERNET.COM> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:09:29 -0000 Hi All, Does anybody know where these ('our birds') birds spend the winter? If memory serves me right - about 2 years ago - we did not know the answer to this. I have contacted Jez ( our African corespondant) and he also does not know. Mike Cobley ----- Original Message ----- From: "jez simms" To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 4:03 AM Subject: Re: House Martins > Thanks Hugh. I hope we get some more today. > > > JEZ SIMMS: BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER. > ATS GROUP. P.O. BOX OS 2428, OSU, ACCRA, GHANA. > Tel: +233 249 486348|skype jezsimms |www.atsgroup.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of > Hugh > Delaney > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:06 AM > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: House Martins > > Hi Jez, > > it was down to a population decline in UK, they are now on the amber list > there (38% decline since 1970 in the uk since 1970 - stats coming from > RSPB) > http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/h/housemartin/population_chan > ges.aspx > , birdguides flagged this last spring in response to observers noticing > visibly less numbers overall last year, i can certainly vouch that i don't > see the same numbers in dublin that i did say a decade ago, in recent > summers at least, i can't help thinking that the recent trend of continual > long periods of wet, inclement and cooler periods that now punctuate our > 'summers' are having a disastrous effect on their breeding success, > > belated happy paddies & glad to hear some are on their way! > > regards > > Hugh > > > ----- "jez simms" wrote: >> I remember there was a thread on House Martins in Africa last year but >> can't >> remember why. Anyhow I thought I'd report that this morning over our >> camp in >> Twangiza, approx 50 kilometers SSW of Bukavu, South Kivu, DRC, we have >> a >> flock of 30+ House Martins feeding over our camp, so they are on their >> way! >> They have arrived with a small fall of Willow Warblers which are all >> in >> full song plus a few Spotted flycatchers. Happy St Pats. >> >> >> >> >> >> JEZ SIMMS: BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER. >> >> ATS GROUP. P.O. BOX OS 2428, OSU, ACCRA, GHANA. >> >> Tel: +233 249 486348|skype jezsimms |www.atsgroup.net Subject: Re: House Martins From: jez simms <jez.simms AT ATSGROUP.NET> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:03:56 +0000 Thanks Hugh. I hope we get some more today. JEZ SIMMS: BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER. ATS GROUP. P.O. BOX OS 2428, OSU, ACCRA, GHANA. Tel: +233 249 486348|skype jezsimms |www.atsgroup.net -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Hugh Delaney Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:06 AM To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: House Martins Hi Jez, it was down to a population decline in UK, they are now on the amber list there (38% decline since 1970 in the uk since 1970 - stats coming from RSPB) http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/h/housemartin/population_chan ges.aspx , birdguides flagged this last spring in response to observers noticing visibly less numbers overall last year, i can certainly vouch that i don't see the same numbers in dublin that i did say a decade ago, in recent summers at least, i can't help thinking that the recent trend of continual long periods of wet, inclement and cooler periods that now punctuate our 'summers' are having a disastrous effect on their breeding success, belated happy paddies & glad to hear some are on their way! regards Hugh ----- "jez simms" wrote: > I remember there was a thread on House Martins in Africa last year but > can't > remember why. Anyhow I thought I'd report that this morning over our > camp in > Twangiza, approx 50 kilometers SSW of Bukavu, South Kivu, DRC, we have > a > flock of 30+ House Martins feeding over our camp, so they are on their > way! > They have arrived with a small fall of Willow Warblers which are all > in > full song plus a few Spotted flycatchers. Happy St Pats. > > > > > > JEZ SIMMS: BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER. > > ATS GROUP. P.O. BOX OS 2428, OSU, ACCRA, GHANA. > > Tel: +233 249 486348|skype jezsimms |www.atsgroup.net Subject: Re: House Martins From: Hugh Delaney <hughdelaney AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:06:25 +0000 Hi Jez, it was down to a population decline in UK, they are now on the amber list there (38% decline since 1970 in the uk since 1970 - stats coming from RSPB) http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/h/housemartin/population_changes.aspx , birdguides flagged this last spring in response to observers noticing visibly less numbers overall last year, i can certainly vouch that i don't see the same numbers in dublin that i did say a decade ago, in recent summers at least, i can't help thinking that the recent trend of continual long periods of wet, inclement and cooler periods that now punctuate our 'summers' are having a disastrous effect on their breeding success, belated happy paddies & glad to hear some are on their way! regards Hugh ----- "jez simms" wrote: > I remember there was a thread on House Martins in Africa last year but > can't > remember why. Anyhow I thought I'd report that this morning over our > camp in > Twangiza, approx 50 kilometers SSW of Bukavu, South Kivu, DRC, we have > a > flock of 30+ House Martins feeding over our camp, so they are on their > way! > They have arrived with a small fall of Willow Warblers which are all > in > full song plus a few Spotted flycatchers. Happy St Pats. > > > > > > JEZ SIMMS: BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER. > > ATS GROUP. P.O. BOX OS 2428, OSU, ACCRA, GHANA. > > Tel: +233 249 486348|skype jezsimms |www.atsgroup.net Subject: Re: Playback option From: Steve Wing <steve.ccbo AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:48:00 +0000 Hi Christian, The 'breeding' part on the permit only appeared this year. As far as Stormies and Manxies go, that is a fair question and I will ask the BTO what the story is. Steve On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Christian Osthoff wrote: > Hi Steve, > Where does Stormie and Manx tape luring come into the whole scheme of > things. I always assumed that a special permit was not required but the > Ringing Permit indicates that it does. Was it always taken that cape had > neither of these breeding and thus made it ok to lure without a permit? > Regards, > Christian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of > Steve Wing > Sent: 17 March 2010 18:23 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: Playback option > > Hi All, > > I have just received my Ringing Permit for 2010 and within the text it > states > > "....,use mist nets for taking birds, use MP3/cd/tape playback lures and > ring fledged birds. > > Playback Lures in the Breeding season > The holder is not authorised to use cd/Tape lures for species that are > breeding." > > I know non-ringers are not likely to be tape luring common birds but what > would you do if a pair of Thrush Nightingales were reported to be breeding > in the Wicklow scrub? > > Steve > > PS I wouldnt use a tape or CD - I've seen and ringed Thrush gales!! > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote: > > > Yea I know what it says Micheal, the point I am making is that Joe Blogs > > arrives at a well known site for Cetti's, plays his tape, gets the bird > and > > then goes away, then John Smith arrives and does the same thing and on > and > > on and on. Each person excuses his action on the grounds that he only did > it > > once. > > I am not being holier than thou, I will admit to having used a tape to > tick > > a bird, but with hindsight probably should not have done. > > Phil. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mícheál Casey" < > > michealjcasey AT GMAIL.COM> > > > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:18 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Playback option > > > > > > Read it again Phil. > > > > Mícheál > > On 17 Mar 2010, at 15:01, Phil Davis wrote: > > > > "The problem arises when many people use > >> playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if > >> everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback > >> every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one > >> could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use." > >> > >> > >> > >> I'm not trying to be devisive but this sounds like the excuse egg > >> collecters used when I was young. "It's alright to take one egg"! The > >> problem was, obviously, everyone took one egg until there were none. > >> > >> Phil > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene ARCHER" > >> To: > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:51 PM > >> Subject: Re: Playback option > >> > >> > >> Hi Bill, > >>> > >>> I think Rule No. 1 covers it: "The welfare of the bird comes first" > >>> > >>> It boils down to common sense in the end. If you use playback and a > bird > >>> responds then you've established its presence so you can switch it off > after > >>> a couple of minutes. The problem arises when many people use playback > >>> devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if everyone > went > >>> searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback every weekend > to > >>> lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one could say that > it > was > >>> inappropriate or excessive use. On the other hand if you went walking > along > >>> the Wicklow coast playing a Cetti's call constantly you might find one > or > >>> you might not but as you are not continually disturbing the same > individual > >>> bird(s) then it could hardly be considered inappropriate or excessive. > >>> > >>> Eugene > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Billy Quinn wrote: > >>> > >>>> Eugene > >>>> It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter > of > >>>> interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these > tape-luring > >>>> or > >>>> playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant > bird > >>>> out > >>>> of cover? > >>>> Regards > >>>> Bill > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>>> > >>>>> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even > >>>>> ardent > >>>>> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. > >>>>> > >>>>> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool > >>>>> in > >>>>> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the > >>>>> data > >>>>> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's > wider > >>>>> use > >>>>> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a > >>>>> budget. > >>>>> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I > >>>>> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an > Altec > >>>>> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA > >>>>> batteries, (rechargable of course !). > >>>>> > >>>>> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my > >>>>> experience, > >>>>> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of > >>>>> use at > >>>>> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life > >>>>> was a > >>>>> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which > >>>>> takes > >>>>> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and > >>>>> the > >>>>> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full > >>>>> small > >>>>> bottle of water. Impressed ? > >>>>> > >>>>> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where > I > >>>>> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I > >>>>> looked > >>>>> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage > for > >>>>> less > >>>>> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! > >>>>> > >>>>> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought > >>>>> another > >>>>> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will > >>>>> certainly be > >>>>> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software > >>>>> which > >>>>> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) > >>>>> volume > >>>>> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the > >>>>> range > >>>>> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in > >>>>> woodland > >>>>> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. > With > >>>>> that > >>>>> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even > >>>>> better. > >>>>> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion > >>>>> provided > >>>>> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to > >>>>> exceed > >>>>> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). > >>>>> > >>>>> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that > >>>>> over > >>>>> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a > device > >>>>> and > >>>>> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the > >>>>> usual > >>>>> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection > in > >>>>> any > >>>>> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! > >>>>> > >>>>> Best regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> Eugene > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Subject: Re: Playback option From: Christian Osthoff <costhoff AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:30:07 +0000 Hi Steve, Where does Stormie and Manx tape luring come into the whole scheme of things. I always assumed that a special permit was not required but the Ringing Permit indicates that it does. Was it always taken that cape had neither of these breeding and thus made it ok to lure without a permit? Regards, Christian -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Steve Wing Sent: 17 March 2010 18:23 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: Playback option Hi All, I have just received my Ringing Permit for 2010 and within the text it states "....,use mist nets for taking birds, use MP3/cd/tape playback lures and ring fledged birds. Playback Lures in the Breeding season The holder is not authorised to use cd/Tape lures for species that are breeding." I know non-ringers are not likely to be tape luring common birds but what would you do if a pair of Thrush Nightingales were reported to be breeding in the Wicklow scrub? Steve PS I wouldnt use a tape or CD - I've seen and ringed Thrush gales!! On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote: > Yea I know what it says Micheal, the point I am making is that Joe Blogs > arrives at a well known site for Cetti's, plays his tape, gets the bird and > then goes away, then John Smith arrives and does the same thing and on and > on and on. Each person excuses his action on the grounds that he only did it > once. > I am not being holier than thou, I will admit to having used a tape to tick > a bird, but with hindsight probably should not have done. > Phil. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mícheál Casey" < > michealjcasey AT GMAIL.COM> > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:18 PM > > Subject: Re: Playback option > > > Read it again Phil. > > Mícheál > On 17 Mar 2010, at 15:01, Phil Davis wrote: > > "The problem arises when many people use >> playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if >> everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback >> every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one >> could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use." >> >> >> >> I'm not trying to be devisive but this sounds like the excuse egg >> collecters used when I was young. "It's alright to take one egg"! The >> problem was, obviously, everyone took one egg until there were none. >> >> Phil >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene ARCHER" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:51 PM >> Subject: Re: Playback option >> >> >> Hi Bill, >>> >>> I think Rule No. 1 covers it: "The welfare of the bird comes first" >>> >>> It boils down to common sense in the end. If you use playback and a bird >>> responds then you've established its presence so you can switch it off after >>> a couple of minutes. The problem arises when many people use playback >>> devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if everyone went >>> searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback every weekend to >>> lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one could say that it was >>> inappropriate or excessive use. On the other hand if you went walking along >>> the Wicklow coast playing a Cetti's call constantly you might find one or >>> you might not but as you are not continually disturbing the same individual >>> bird(s) then it could hardly be considered inappropriate or excessive. >>> >>> Eugene >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Billy Quinn wrote: >>> >>>> Eugene >>>> It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter of >>>> interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these tape-luring >>>> or >>>> playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant bird >>>> out >>>> of cover? >>>> Regards >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even >>>>> ardent >>>>> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >>>>> >>>>> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool >>>>> in >>>>> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the >>>>> data >>>>> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider >>>>> use >>>>> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a >>>>> budget. >>>>> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >>>>> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >>>>> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >>>>> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >>>>> >>>>> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my >>>>> experience, >>>>> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of >>>>> use at >>>>> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life >>>>> was a >>>>> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which >>>>> takes >>>>> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and >>>>> the >>>>> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full >>>>> small >>>>> bottle of water. Impressed ? >>>>> >>>>> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >>>>> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I >>>>> looked >>>>> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for >>>>> less >>>>> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought >>>>> another >>>>> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will >>>>> certainly be >>>>> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software >>>>> which >>>>> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) >>>>> volume >>>>> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the >>>>> range >>>>> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in >>>>> woodland >>>>> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With >>>>> that >>>>> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even >>>>> better. >>>>> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion >>>>> provided >>>>> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to >>>>> exceed >>>>> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that >>>>> over >>>>> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device >>>>> and >>>>> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the >>>>> usual >>>>> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in >>>>> any >>>>> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Eugene >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: Playback option From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:22:47 +0100 Hi Steve, I think people just have to use their common sense and to take the bird into consideration. If news got out of a Thrush Nightingale in Co. Wicklow I can imagine that a lot of people would go looking for it. One could then ask whether an organised 30 minute session using a tape lure which allows everyone to see the bird is preferable to having people clambering about all over the place to try and find and causing potentially more disturbance in the long run. In theory of course, all looking, luring etc. would be illegal in a sense as one would be knowingly risking disturbing the bird no matter what you do. Eugene PS: Happy St. Patrick's Day to everyone :-) Steve Wing wrote: > Hi All, > > I have just received my Ringing Permit for 2010 and within the text it > states > > "....,use mist nets for taking birds, use MP3/cd/tape playback lures and > ring fledged birds. > > Playback Lures in the Breeding season > The holder is not authorised to use cd/Tape lures for species that are > breeding." > I know non-ringers are not likely to be tape luring common birds but what > would you do if a pair of Thrush Nightingales were reported to be breeding > in the Wicklow scrub? > > Steve > Subject: Re: Playback option From: Steve Wing <steve.ccbo AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:22:40 +0000 Hi All, I have just received my Ringing Permit for 2010 and within the text it states "....,use mist nets for taking birds, use MP3/cd/tape playback lures and ring fledged birds. Playback Lures in the Breeding season The holder is not authorised to use cd/Tape lures for species that are breeding." I know non-ringers are not likely to be tape luring common birds but what would you do if a pair of Thrush Nightingales were reported to be breeding in the Wicklow scrub? Steve PS I wouldnt use a tape or CD - I've seen and ringed Thrush gales!! On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Phil Davis wrote: > Yea I know what it says Micheal, the point I am making is that Joe Blogs > arrives at a well known site for Cetti's, plays his tape, gets the bird and > then goes away, then John Smith arrives and does the same thing and on and > on and on. Each person excuses his action on the grounds that he only did it > once. > I am not being holier than thou, I will admit to having used a tape to tick > a bird, but with hindsight probably should not have done. > Phil. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mícheál Casey" < > michealjcasey AT GMAIL.COM> > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:18 PM > > Subject: Re: Playback option > > > Read it again Phil. > > Mícheál > On 17 Mar 2010, at 15:01, Phil Davis wrote: > > "The problem arises when many people use >> playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if >> everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback >> every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one >> could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use." >> >> >> >> I'm not trying to be devisive but this sounds like the excuse egg >> collecters used when I was young. "It's alright to take one egg"! The >> problem was, obviously, everyone took one egg until there were none. >> >> Phil >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene ARCHER" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:51 PM >> Subject: Re: Playback option >> >> >> Hi Bill, >>> >>> I think Rule No. 1 covers it: "The welfare of the bird comes first" >>> >>> It boils down to common sense in the end. If you use playback and a bird >>> responds then you've established its presence so you can switch it off after >>> a couple of minutes. The problem arises when many people use playback >>> devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if everyone went >>> searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback every weekend to >>> lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one could say that it was >>> inappropriate or excessive use. On the other hand if you went walking along >>> the Wicklow coast playing a Cetti's call constantly you might find one or >>> you might not but as you are not continually disturbing the same individual >>> bird(s) then it could hardly be considered inappropriate or excessive. >>> >>> Eugene >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Billy Quinn wrote: >>> >>>> Eugene >>>> It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter of >>>> interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these tape-luring >>>> or >>>> playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant bird >>>> out >>>> of cover? >>>> Regards >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even >>>>> ardent >>>>> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >>>>> >>>>> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool >>>>> in >>>>> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the >>>>> data >>>>> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider >>>>> use >>>>> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a >>>>> budget. >>>>> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >>>>> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >>>>> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >>>>> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >>>>> >>>>> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my >>>>> experience, >>>>> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of >>>>> use at >>>>> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life >>>>> was a >>>>> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which >>>>> takes >>>>> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and >>>>> the >>>>> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full >>>>> small >>>>> bottle of water. Impressed ? >>>>> >>>>> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >>>>> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I >>>>> looked >>>>> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for >>>>> less >>>>> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought >>>>> another >>>>> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will >>>>> certainly be >>>>> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software >>>>> which >>>>> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) >>>>> volume >>>>> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the >>>>> range >>>>> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in >>>>> woodland >>>>> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With >>>>> that >>>>> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even >>>>> better. >>>>> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion >>>>> provided >>>>> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to >>>>> exceed >>>>> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that >>>>> over >>>>> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device >>>>> and >>>>> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the >>>>> usual >>>>> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in >>>>> any >>>>> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Eugene >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: Playback option From: Mícheál Casey <michealjcasey AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:15:13 +0000 Read it again, Phil Mícheál On 17 Mar 2010, at 15:29, Phil Davis wrote: > Yea I know what it says Micheal, the point I am making is that Joe Blogs arrives at a well known site for Cetti's, plays his tape, gets the bird and then goes away, then John Smith arrives and does the same thing and on and on and on. Each person excuses his action on the grounds that he only did it once. > I am not being holier than thou, I will admit to having used a tape to tick a bird, but with hindsight probably should not have done. > Phil. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mícheál Casey" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:18 PM > Subject: Re: Playback option > > > Read it again Phil. > > Mícheál > On 17 Mar 2010, at 15:01, Phil Davis wrote: > >> "The problem arises when many people use >> playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if >> everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback >> every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one >> could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use." >> >> >> >> I'm not trying to be devisive but this sounds like the excuse egg collecters used when I was young. "It's alright to take one egg"! The problem was, obviously, everyone took one egg until there were none. >> >> Phil >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene ARCHER" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:51 PM >> Subject: Re: Playback option >> >> >>> Hi Bill, >>> >>> I think Rule No. 1 covers it: "The welfare of the bird comes first" >>> >>> It boils down to common sense in the end. If you use playback and a bird responds then you've established its presence so you can switch it off after a couple of minutes. The problem arises when many people use playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use. On the other hand if you went walking along the Wicklow coast playing a Cetti's call constantly you might find one or you might not but as you are not continually disturbing the same individual bird(s) then it could hardly be considered inappropriate or excessive. >>> >>> Eugene >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Billy Quinn wrote: >>>> Eugene >>>> It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter of >>>> interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these tape-luring or >>>> playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant bird out >>>> of cover? >>>> Regards >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent >>>>> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >>>>> >>>>> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in >>>>> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data >>>>> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use >>>>> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. >>>>> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >>>>> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >>>>> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >>>>> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >>>>> >>>>> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, >>>>> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at >>>>> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a >>>>> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes >>>>> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the >>>>> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small >>>>> bottle of water. Impressed ? >>>>> >>>>> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >>>>> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked >>>>> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less >>>>> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another >>>>> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be >>>>> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which >>>>> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume >>>>> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range >>>>> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland >>>>> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that >>>>> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. >>>>> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided >>>>> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed >>>>> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over >>>>> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and >>>>> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual >>>>> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any >>>>> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Eugene >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: Playback option From: Phil Davis <phildavis AT IOL.IE> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:29:38 +0000 Yea I know what it says Micheal, the point I am making is that Joe Blogs arrives at a well known site for Cetti's, plays his tape, gets the bird and then goes away, then John Smith arrives and does the same thing and on and on and on. Each person excuses his action on the grounds that he only did it once. I am not being holier than thou, I will admit to having used a tape to tick a bird, but with hindsight probably should not have done. Phil. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mícheál Casey" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Playback option Read it again Phil. Mícheál On 17 Mar 2010, at 15:01, Phil Davis wrote: > "The problem arises when many people use > playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if > everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback > every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one > could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use." > > > > I'm not trying to be devisive but this sounds like the excuse egg > collecters used when I was young. "It's alright to take one egg"! The > problem was, obviously, everyone took one egg until there were none. > > Phil > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene ARCHER" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: Playback option > > >> Hi Bill, >> >> I think Rule No. 1 covers it: "The welfare of the bird comes first" >> >> It boils down to common sense in the end. If you use playback and a bird >> responds then you've established its presence so you can switch it off >> after a couple of minutes. The problem arises when many people use >> playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if >> everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback >> every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one >> could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use. On the other hand >> if you went walking along the Wicklow coast playing a Cetti's call >> constantly you might find one or you might not but as you are not >> continually disturbing the same individual bird(s) then it could hardly >> be considered inappropriate or excessive. >> >> Eugene >> >> >> >> >> >> Billy Quinn wrote: >>> Eugene >>> It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter of >>> interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these tape-luring >>> or >>> playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant bird >>> out >>> of cover? >>> Regards >>> Bill >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even >>>> ardent >>>> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >>>> >>>> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool >>>> in >>>> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the >>>> data >>>> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider >>>> use >>>> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a >>>> budget. >>>> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >>>> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >>>> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >>>> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >>>> >>>> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my >>>> experience, >>>> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of >>>> use at >>>> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life >>>> was a >>>> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which >>>> takes >>>> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and >>>> the >>>> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full >>>> small >>>> bottle of water. Impressed ? >>>> >>>> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >>>> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I >>>> looked >>>> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for >>>> less >>>> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >>>> >>>> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought >>>> another >>>> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will >>>> certainly be >>>> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software >>>> which >>>> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) >>>> volume >>>> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the >>>> range >>>> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in >>>> woodland >>>> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With >>>> that >>>> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even >>>> better. >>>> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion >>>> provided >>>> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to >>>> exceed >>>> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >>>> >>>> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that >>>> over >>>> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device >>>> and >>>> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the >>>> usual >>>> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in >>>> any >>>> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Eugene >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: Playback option From: Mícheál Casey <michealjcasey AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:18:02 +0000 Read it again Phil. Mícheál On 17 Mar 2010, at 15:01, Phil Davis wrote: > "The problem arises when many people use > playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if > everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback > every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one > could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use." > > > > I'm not trying to be devisive but this sounds like the excuse egg collecters used when I was young. "It's alright to take one egg"! The problem was, obviously, everyone took one egg until there were none. > > Phil > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene ARCHER" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: Playback option > > >> Hi Bill, >> >> I think Rule No. 1 covers it: "The welfare of the bird comes first" >> >> It boils down to common sense in the end. If you use playback and a bird responds then you've established its presence so you can switch it off after a couple of minutes. The problem arises when many people use playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use. On the other hand if you went walking along the Wicklow coast playing a Cetti's call constantly you might find one or you might not but as you are not continually disturbing the same individual bird(s) then it could hardly be considered inappropriate or excessive. >> >> Eugene >> >> >> >> >> >> Billy Quinn wrote: >>> Eugene >>> It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter of >>> interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these tape-luring or >>> playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant bird out >>> of cover? >>> Regards >>> Bill >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent >>>> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >>>> >>>> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in >>>> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data >>>> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use >>>> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. >>>> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >>>> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >>>> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >>>> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >>>> >>>> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, >>>> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at >>>> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a >>>> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes >>>> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the >>>> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small >>>> bottle of water. Impressed ? >>>> >>>> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >>>> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked >>>> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less >>>> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >>>> >>>> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another >>>> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be >>>> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which >>>> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume >>>> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range >>>> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland >>>> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that >>>> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. >>>> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided >>>> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed >>>> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >>>> >>>> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over >>>> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and >>>> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual >>>> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any >>>> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Eugene >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: Playback option From: Phil Davis <phildavis AT IOL.IE> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:01:59 +0000 "The problem arises when many people use playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use." I'm not trying to be devisive but this sounds like the excuse egg collecters used when I was young. "It's alright to take one egg"! The problem was, obviously, everyone took one egg until there were none. Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene ARCHER" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Playback option > Hi Bill, > > I think Rule No. 1 covers it: "The welfare of the bird comes first" > > It boils down to common sense in the end. If you use playback and a bird > responds then you've established its presence so you can switch it off > after a couple of minutes. The problem arises when many people use > playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if > everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback > every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one > could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use. On the other hand if > you went walking along the Wicklow coast playing a Cetti's call constantly > you might find one or you might not but as you are not continually > disturbing the same individual bird(s) then it could hardly be considered > inappropriate or excessive. > > Eugene > > > > > > Billy Quinn wrote: >> Eugene >> It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter of >> interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these tape-luring >> or >> playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant bird >> out >> of cover? >> Regards >> Bill >> >> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even >>> ardent >>> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >>> >>> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in >>> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the >>> data >>> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider >>> use >>> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a >>> budget. >>> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >>> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >>> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >>> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >>> >>> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my >>> experience, >>> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use >>> at >>> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was >>> a >>> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which >>> takes >>> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and >>> the >>> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full >>> small >>> bottle of water. Impressed ? >>> >>> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >>> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I >>> looked >>> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for >>> less >>> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >>> >>> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought >>> another >>> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly >>> be >>> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which >>> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) >>> volume >>> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the >>> range >>> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in >>> woodland >>> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With >>> that >>> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even >>> better. >>> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion >>> provided >>> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to >>> exceed >>> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >>> >>> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that >>> over >>> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device >>> and >>> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the >>> usual >>> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in >>> any >>> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Eugene >>> >>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: Playback option From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:51:43 +0100 Hi Bill, I think Rule No. 1 covers it: "The welfare of the bird comes first" It boils down to common sense in the end. If you use playback and a bird responds then you've established its presence so you can switch it off after a couple of minutes. The problem arises when many people use playback devices in the same area on a regular basis - for example if everyone went searching for a known Cetti's Warbler and used playback every weekend to lure the bird out of cover to tick it then I think one could say that it was inappropriate or excessive use. On the other hand if you went walking along the Wicklow coast playing a Cetti's call constantly you might find one or you might not but as you are not continually disturbing the same individual bird(s) then it could hardly be considered inappropriate or excessive. Eugene Billy Quinn wrote: > Eugene > It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter of > interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these tape-luring or > playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant bird out > of cover? > Regards > Bill > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > > >> Hi all, >> >> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent >> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >> >> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in >> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data >> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use >> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. >> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >> >> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, >> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at >> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a >> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes >> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the >> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small >> bottle of water. Impressed ? >> >> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked >> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less >> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >> >> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another >> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be >> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which >> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume >> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range >> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland >> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that >> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. >> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided >> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed >> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >> >> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over >> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and >> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual >> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any >> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >> >> Best regards, >> >> Eugene >> >> > > > Subject: Re: Playback option From: D Allen <rosefinch90 AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:49:06 -0000 There has been lots of debate on other forums (BirdForum & OBC to name two) about the use of tape lures and yes in some cases it has been shown that repeated use in the same area can lead to low breeding success or failure of the target species - especially where a single pair is involved. There is no doubt that using tape lures in a smart way can be very effective - its not always about loudness and often birds respond better to short bursts played quite softly. The end result in the US is that it is illegal to use tape lures for certain endangered species such as spotted Owl, Black-capped Vireo and Red-cockaded Woodpecker. This law is enforced especially in Wildlife Refuges & State Parks. I witnessed such an incident in US where a local Audubon group was playing E Screech Owl tape near to a known Black capped Vireo territory - they obviously felt they were ok by not using the actual vireo song... The ranger reprimanded them and took their playback gear! I am sure the practice is frowned on in other countries as well but possibly not as strictly as in parts of the US? As an aside I remember years ago in Texas talking to another birder about N Beardless Tyrannulet and the possibility of tape luring it - "Don't even try" was the response - "they actually react negatively to the song and move further away".... We couldn't resist trying this out after locating a singing bird (and watching it well before turning on the tape) - he was right - it must have gone over 100 metres before diving into dense scrub! Dave -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Billy Quinn Sent: 17 March 2010 12:19 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: Playback option Eugene It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter of interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these tape-luring or playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant bird out of cover? Regards Bill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > Hi all, > > Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even > ardent rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. > > Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool > in birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to > the data sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented > it's wider use is the availability of portable and lightweight > equipment within a budget. While searching for something that could be > used with an MP3 player I followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a > while back and bought an Altec Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around > 40 euros and works off 3 AAA batteries, (rechargable of course !). > > The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my > experience, and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several > months of use at a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day > the battery life was a lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 > player (I use one which takes 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on > music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the whole set-up will fit in your > pocket and weight less than a half-full small bottle of water. > Impressed ? > > The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where > I bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I > looked on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with > postage for less than 22 euros > (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! > > Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought > another one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will > certainly be used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have > software which will edit music you can use it to "boost" the > (originally recorded) volume of a MP3 track before putting it on the > player and hence improve the range of the speaker a little bit. I've > tested the audibility to 100m in woodland on a still day and in most > conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that range to the human > ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. It can handle > Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided you've > not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed > about 90% of the player volume for clarity). > > Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that > over the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a > device and this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. > I'll add the usual disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, > I've no connection in any way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. > etc.! > > Best regards, > > Eugene > Subject: Re: Playback option From: Billy Quinn <bqsnr44 AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:18:53 +0000 Eugene It sounds like a great, and very cost effective system. As a matter of interest is there any Code of Good Practice for using these tape-luring or playback systems? Can they be overused to try to lure a reluctant bird out of cover? Regards Bill On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > Hi all, > > Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent > rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. > > Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in > birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data > sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use > is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. > While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I > followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec > Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA > batteries, (rechargable of course !). > > The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, > and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at > a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a > lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes > 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the > whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small > bottle of water. Impressed ? > > The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I > bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked > on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less > than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! > > Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another > one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be > used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which > will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume > of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range > of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland > on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that > range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. > It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided > you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed > about 90% of the player volume for clarity). > > Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over > the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and > this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual > disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any > way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! > > Best regards, > > Eugene > Subject: House Martins From: jez simms <jez.simms AT ATSGROUP.NET> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:06:24 +0000 I remember there was a thread on House Martins in Africa last year but can't remember why. Anyhow I thought I'd report that this morning over our camp in Twangiza, approx 50 kilometers SSW of Bukavu, South Kivu, DRC, we have a flock of 30+ House Martins feeding over our camp, so they are on their way! They have arrived with a small fall of Willow Warblers which are all in full song plus a few Spotted flycatchers. Happy St Pats. JEZ SIMMS: BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER. ATS GROUP. P.O. BOX OS 2428, OSU, ACCRA, GHANA. Tel: +233 249 486348|skype jezsimms |www.atsgroup.net Subject: Re: Playback option From: Richard Mills <birdpics AT NEWSGUY.COM> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:29:20 +0000 The following mini amplified speaker from RadioShack at $14.99 is very loud and runs forever on a 9v battery: Mini Audio Amplifier Model: 277-1008 | Catalog #: 277-1008 http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=mini%20audio%20amplifier&origkw=Mini%20Audio%20Amplifier&sr=1 You need a stereo cable with a stereo to mono adapter at one end. It is also available from Birdsounds.nl: https://www.birdsounds.nl/index.php?pg=productoverviewitem&id=798&jsd=1.php at €19.94 including a free cable Richard. At 18:32 16/03/2010, you wrote:kw=mini%20amplifier%20speaker&sr=1 >Eugene, > >Funnily enough I was doing a bit of on-line research for a lightweight >sturdy portable speaker for playback purposes just last week and had come to >the conclusion that the Altec Lansing looked like good value - grerat to >know that it sounds OK too, I'll go ahead and get one. > >Cheers, Rick > > > >On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent > > rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. > > > > Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in > > birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data > > sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use > > is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. > > While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I > > followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec > > Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA > > batteries, (rechargable of course !). > > > > The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, > > and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at > > a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a > > lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes > > 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the > > whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small > > bottle of water. Impressed ? > > > > The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I > > bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked > > on eBay to check the price there and found it > for sale with postage for less > > than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! > > > > Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another > > one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be > > used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which > > will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume > > of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range > > of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland > > on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that > > range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. > > It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided > > you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed > > about 90% of the player volume for clarity). > > > > Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over > > the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and > > this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual > > disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any > > way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! > > > > Best regards, > > > > Eugene > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.790 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2750 >- Release Date: 03/16/10 07:33:00 Subject: Re: Playback option From: Mícheál Cowming <mickcowming AT YAHOO.IE> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:08:15 +0000 Hi Eugene,   I actually own one of these and can vouch for that fact that they take a long, long time to lose a charge. They also charge via usb cable in less than a couple of hours negating the need for any batteries. As I said, definitely a viable alternative. I wouldn't be without it!   Sound quality is excellent. I use it with a Zen and recently tried it with a friend's ipod touch. It was quite impressive. The speaker itself has volume control but when coupled with a player of quality it really is impressive.   Cheers.   MC --- On Tue, 16/3/10, Eugene ARCHER wrote: From: Eugene ARCHER Subject: Re: Playback option To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Date: Tuesday, 16 March, 2010, 19:16 Hi Michael, I looked at these too but was put off by the recharging as I've been places where there was no facility to recharge stuff and it was easier to bring 2 sets of batteries which would last the week or more. it's an possible alternative though. I think someone on BF has tried these but I can't remember what they said about them. Regards, Eugene Mícheál Cowming wrote: > Or as an alternative......... cracking portable, rechargeable, battery free speaker! >  > http://www.amazon.co.uk/XMI-X-mini-II-Mini-Speaker/dp/B001UEBN42/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268765564&sr=8-1 >  > MC > > --- On Tue, 16/3/10, richard mundy wrote: > > > From: richard mundy > Subject: Re: Playback option > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Date: Tuesday, 16 March, 2010, 18:46 > > > ...........p.s. £18.99 on www.7dayshop.com which is a very reliable and > cheap website in my experience with an amazing range of stuff - great for > photographic and other accessories and never any probs sending stuff > promptly to Ireland - not sure about France though! > > Rick > > > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > >    >> Hi all, >> >> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent >> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >> >> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in >> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data >> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use >> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. >> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >> >> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, >> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at >> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a >> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes >> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the >> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small >> bottle of water. Impressed ? >> >> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked >> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less >> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1)  Ughhhhh !!! >> >> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another >> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be >> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which >> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume >> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range >> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland >> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that >> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. >> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided >> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed >> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >> >> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over >> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and >> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual >> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any >> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >> >> Best regards, >> >> Eugene >> >>      > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > >    Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Subject: Re: Playback option From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:16:05 +0100 Hi Michael, I looked at these too but was put off by the recharging as I've been places where there was no facility to recharge stuff and it was easier to bring 2 sets of batteries which would last the week or more. it's an possible alternative though. I think someone on BF has tried these but I can't remember what they said about them. Regards, Eugene Mícheál Cowming wrote: > Or as an alternative......... cracking portable, rechargeable, battery free speaker! > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/XMI-X-mini-II-Mini-Speaker/dp/B001UEBN42/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268765564&sr=8-1 > > MC > > --- On Tue, 16/3/10, richard mundy wrote: > > > From: richard mundy > Subject: Re: Playback option > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Date: Tuesday, 16 March, 2010, 18:46 > > > ...........p.s. £18.99 on www.7dayshop.com which is a very reliable and > cheap website in my experience with an amazing range of stuff - great for > photographic and other accessories and never any probs sending stuff > promptly to Ireland - not sure about France though! > > Rick > > > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > > >> Hi all, >> >> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent >> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >> >> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in >> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data >> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use >> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. >> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >> >> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, >> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at >> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a >> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes >> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the >> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small >> bottle of water. Impressed ? >> >> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked >> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less >> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >> >> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another >> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be >> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which >> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume >> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range >> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland >> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that >> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. >> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided >> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed >> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >> >> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over >> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and >> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual >> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any >> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >> >> Best regards, >> >> Eugene >> >> > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > Subject: Re: Playback option From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:10:13 +0100 Hi Rick, I used 7dayshop when I was in Ireland to buy an MP3 player . . . ridiculously cheap and still going strong 4 years later without any problems. based in the Channel Islands they only post to the UK and Ireland I think. Their own-brand rechargable batteries are good too. Go for it ! Eugene richard mundy wrote: > ...........p.s. £18.99 on www.7dayshop.com which is a very reliable and > cheap website in my experience with an amazing range of stuff - great for > photographic and other accessories and never any probs sending stuff > promptly to Ireland - not sure about France though! > > Rick > > > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > > >> Hi all, >> >> Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent >> rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. >> >> Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in >> birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data >> sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use >> is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. >> While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I >> followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec >> Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA >> batteries, (rechargable of course !). >> >> The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, >> and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at >> a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a >> lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes >> 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the >> whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small >> bottle of water. Impressed ? >> >> The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I >> bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked >> on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less >> than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! >> >> Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another >> one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be >> used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which >> will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume >> of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range >> of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland >> on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that >> range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. >> It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided >> you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed >> about 90% of the player volume for clarity). >> >> Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over >> the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and >> this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual >> disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any >> way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! >> >> Best regards, >> >> Eugene >> >> > > > Subject: Re: Playback option From: Mícheál Cowming <mickcowming AT YAHOO.IE> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:54:11 +0000 Or as an alternative......... cracking portable, rechargeable, battery free speaker!   http://www.amazon.co.uk/XMI-X-mini-II-Mini-Speaker/dp/B001UEBN42/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268765564&sr=8-1   MC --- On Tue, 16/3/10, richard mundy wrote: From: richard mundy Subject: Re: Playback option To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Date: Tuesday, 16 March, 2010, 18:46 ...........p.s. £18.99 on www.7dayshop.com which is a very reliable and cheap website in my experience with an amazing range of stuff - great for photographic and other accessories and never any probs sending stuff promptly to Ireland - not sure about France though! Rick On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > Hi all, > > Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent > rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. > > Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in > birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data > sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use > is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. > While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I > followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec > Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA > batteries, (rechargable of course !). > > The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, > and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at > a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a > lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes > 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the > whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small > bottle of water. Impressed ? > > The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I > bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked > on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less > than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1)  Ughhhhh !!! > > Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another > one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be > used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which > will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume > of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range > of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland > on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that > range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. > It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided > you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed > about 90% of the player volume for clarity). > > Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over > the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and > this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual > disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any > way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! > > Best regards, > > Eugene > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Subject: Re: Playback option From: richard mundy <ruckrick AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:46:05 +0000 ...........p.s. £18.99 on www.7dayshop.com which is a very reliable and cheap website in my experience with an amazing range of stuff - great for photographic and other accessories and never any probs sending stuff promptly to Ireland - not sure about France though! Rick On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > Hi all, > > Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent > rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. > > Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in > birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data > sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use > is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. > While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I > followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec > Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA > batteries, (rechargable of course !). > > The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, > and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at > a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a > lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes > 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the > whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small > bottle of water. Impressed ? > > The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I > bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked > on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less > than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! > > Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another > one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be > used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which > will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume > of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range > of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland > on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that > range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. > It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided > you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed > about 90% of the player volume for clarity). > > Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over > the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and > this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual > disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any > way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! > > Best regards, > > Eugene > Subject: Re: Playback option From: richard mundy <ruckrick AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:32:01 +0000 Eugene, Funnily enough I was doing a bit of on-line research for a lightweight sturdy portable speaker for playback purposes just last week and had come to the conclusion that the Altec Lansing looked like good value - grerat to know that it sounds OK too, I'll go ahead and get one. Cheers, Rick On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > Hi all, > > Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent > rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. > > Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in > birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data > sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use > is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. > While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I > followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec > Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA > batteries, (rechargable of course !). > > The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, > and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at > a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a > lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes > 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the > whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small > bottle of water. Impressed ? > > The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I > bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked > on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less > than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! > > Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another > one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be > used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which > will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume > of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range > of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland > on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that > range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. > It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided > you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed > about 90% of the player volume for clarity). > > Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over > the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and > this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual > disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any > way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! > > Best regards, > > Eugene > Subject: Playback option From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:57:35 +0100 Hi all, Anyone who carries out any survey work (CBS, etc) and indeed, even ardent rarity-hunters, might be interested in the following. Properly used a tape-luring or playback system is often a useful tool in birding and if used judiciously it can help to add quite a lot to the data sheets. One of the drawbacks which, I suppose, has prevented it's wider use is the availability of portable and lightweight equipment within a budget. While searching for something that could be used with an MP3 player I followed up a suggestion on BirdForum a while back and bought an Altec Lansing Orbit speaker which cost around 40 euros and works off 3 AAA batteries, (rechargable of course !). The battery life is described as being up to 24 hours but in my experience, and using it just for bird calls and songs, during several months of use at a ringing station where it played for 6 hours a day the battery life was a lot closer to 40 hours. Add a 20 euro 2GB MP3 player (I use one which takes 1 AAA battery and runs for 4 hours on music or 6-8 on bird calls) and the whole set-up will fit in your pocket and weight less than a half-full small bottle of water. Impressed ? The reason I mention this is because a colleague asked me today where I bought the speaker originally ( a local shop) and out of curiosity I looked on eBay to check the price there and found it for sale with postage for less than 22 euros (http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PTComms1) Ughhhhh !!! Anyway, I was so impressed by the one I already had that I bought another one because at that price it's hard to beat and I know it will certainly be used. Another thing that I discovered is that if you have software which will edit music you can use it to "boost" the (originally recorded) volume of a MP3 track before putting it on the player and hence improve the range of the speaker a little bit. I've tested the audibility to 100m in woodland on a still day and in most conditions it's good for 50m at least. With that range to the human ear one can imagine that a bird would fare even better. It can handle Goldcrest calls and crake grunts without distortion provided you've not turned up the volume to maximum (it's recommended not to exceed about 90% of the player volume for clarity). Anyway, I'm just passing on some personal experiences as I know that over the years I've heard many people talking of the need for such a device and this is the closest and cheapest option that I've found. I'll add the usual disclaimer also before anyone starts asking: no, I've no connection in any way with the seller / Altec Lansing / etc. etc.! Best regards, Eugene Subject: Re: The Big Year . . . . coming to a screen near you From: peter wolstenholme <pwolstenholme AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:15:33 -0000 Hi, Mark Obmasick's book the BIG YEAR is a great read, but for God's sake don't look at the last page till you get there. I'm glad they are making it a COMEDY. Also a good read in the same vein is TO SEE EVERY BIRD ON EARTH by Dan Koeppel. If you want an explanation of the term "Twitcher" this is it. cheers pete w -------------------------------------------------- From: "Eugene ARCHER" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 5:09 PM To: Subject: The Big Year . . . . coming to a screen near you > Apparently, they're making a film based on the book about one American > guy's efforts to go for the highest year list . . . > > http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=64102 > > Could be interesting when it eventually arrives . > > Best regards, > > Eugene Subject: WEBSITE From: James <jimrippey AT TISCALI.CO.UK> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:36:59 -0000 Came across this website http://www.geograph.org.uk/ which states "The Geograph Britain and Ireland project aims to collect geographically representative photographs and information for every square kilometre of Great Britain and Ireland, and you can be part of it." Thought it might be of interest. IAN RIPPEY 15.3.2010 Subject: The Big Year . . . . coming to a screen near you From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:09:24 +0100 Apparently, they're making a film based on the book about one American guy's efforts to go for the highest year list . . . http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=64102 Could be interesting when it eventually arrives . Best regards, Eugene Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe From: Ronan McLaughlin <rpmclaughlin AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:04:23 -0000 Thanks Gents, My fault, should look before I press "reply" regards Rónán ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dermot Breen" To: Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe Ronan/Lee In case you haven't noticed both of you are replying to each other through the IBN. You can't attach photos on e-mails to the IBN unfortunately. Atb Dermot. On 3/14/10, Ronan McLaughlin wrote: > Duh!! > > Sorry, here we go again. > > regards > > Rónán > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lee G R Evans" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:18 PM > Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe > > >> Nothing attached Ronan >> >> Best wishes >> >> Lee >> > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com Subject: Pacific Diver From: colin.mcnamee AT PRINTPOST.IE Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:14:49 -0000 Hi all For anyone interested, the Pacific Diver was present off the Martello Tower this morning up to 9.10 am. Colin Subject: Re: Laurence Morgan From: James <jimrippey AT TISCALI.CO.UK> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:25:05 -0000 I also noticed this in the Belfast Newsletter on Saturday 13th March. Laurence was a fellow member of the Northern Ireland Branch of Butterfly Conservation and an enthusiastic Moth trapper. It is a particularly sad coincidence that Dr. Willie McDowell also died suddenly when on holiday in Venezuela in May 2006. IAN RIPPEY 15.3.2010 -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of derek charles Sent: 15 March 2010 08:21 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: Laurence Morgan It is with great sadness that we announce the death of Ballymena birder Laurence Morgan while on a recent trip to Venezuela. Our deepest sympathies to Laurence's wife and family. NIBA _________________________________________________________________ Send us your Hotmail stories and be featured in our newsletter http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/= Subject: Re: Laurence Morgan From: derek charles <derek.charles AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:21:21 +0000 It is with great sadness that we announce the death of Ballymena birder Laurence Morgan while on a recent trip to Venezuela. Our deepest sympathies to Laurence's wife and family. NIBA _________________________________________________________________ Send us your Hotmail stories and be featured in our newsletter http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe From: Gerry Power <gerryjtp AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:20:37 +0000 The IBN does not allow attachments ------Original Message------ From: Ronan McLaughlin Sender: Irish Bird Network IBN To: Irish Bird Network IBN ReplyTo: Irish Bird Network IBN Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe Sent: Mar 14, 2010 7:51 PM Duh!! Sorry, here we go again. regards Rónán ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee G R Evans" To: Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe > Nothing attached Ronan > > Best wishes > > Lee > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe From: Dermot Breen <breen.dermot AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:57:58 +0000 Ronan/Lee In case you haven't noticed both of you are replying to each other through the IBN. You can't attach photos on e-mails to the IBN unfortunately. Atb Dermot. On 3/14/10, Ronan McLaughlin wrote: > Duh!! > > Sorry, here we go again. > > regards > > Rónán > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lee G R Evans" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:18 PM > Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe > > >> Nothing attached Ronan >> >> Best wishes >> >> Lee >> > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe From: Paul Archer - GMail <27pines AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:57:47 +0000 Ronan, IBN disallows attachments....................:( Paul On 14 March 2010 19:51, Ronan McLaughlin wrote: > Duh!! > > Sorry, here we go again. > > regards > > Rónán > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee G R Evans" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:18 PM > Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe > > >> Nothing attached Ronan >> >> Best wishes >> >> Lee >> > -- ------------------------------------------------- Paul Archer Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:56:52 EDT Still failed to upload Cheers Lee Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe From: Ronan McLaughlin <rpmclaughlin AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:51:46 -0000 Duh!! Sorry, here we go again. regards Rónán ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee G R Evans" To: Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:18 PM Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe > Nothing attached Ronan > > Best wishes > > Lee > Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:18:24 EDT Nothing attached Ronan Best wishes Lee Subject: Re: poison From: Breffni Martin <bmartin AT REGINTEL.COM> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:00:58 -0000 Precisely Harry - the Irish/Scottish population of hooded crows has been separated from the eastern population at least since the end of the last glaciation, meaning that this population probably has at least as good credentials as an Irish "endemic" (in a small way) as, say, dipper... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hussey" To: Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [IBN-L] poison Hi Breffni, Surely it may be likely that, after the last glaciation, as the climate warmed up, Hooded Crows, being somehow more suited to cooler conditions, advanced northwards, colonising Britain and Ireland, and, by the time Carrion Crows spread north behind them, Ireland may have been cut off from Britain by rising sea levels, and the sea crossing meant that there were never enough Carrion Crows reaching Ireland to displace the Hoodeds (Carrion Crow remains scarce in Ireland even today, despite the greater ability of birders to identify them). To the north, in Scotland, the various mountain ranges may likewise have acted as a barrier, and, of course, cooler summers in Scotland (and also all of Ireland, when compared to much of England or Wales) may also favour Hooded over Carrion. While the hybrid zone has shifted north (and west also, I seem to recall), large parts of Scotland still have only Hooded Crows, and the tiny numbers of breeding Carrions here would seem not to have formed an established population as yet. That said, I always wonder why, if cooler climates (in terms of spring and summer temperatures at least) favour Hoodeds, then why are the crows in Italy, Greece and so on also Hoodeds...? Also, the fact that there is another all-black taxon...orientalis...seperated from Carrion by large areas inhabited by Hooded Crow, would pose more questions: should orientalis be treated as a subspecies of Carrion Crow, or is it also as good a species as Hooded Crow? I also seem to recall that some subspecies of Hooded in the Middle East has been suggested as a split. Regards, Harry --- On Sat, 6/3/10, Breffni Martin wrote: From: Breffni Martin Subject: Re: poison To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Date: Saturday, 6 March, 2010, 12:29 Don't think he holds his colleagues in that high regard... Regarding irish hooded crows, I presume that this population was split from the eastern population at the end of the last ice age, meaning that the split happened not more than 15000 years ago, similar to other purported irish sub-species (dipper, jay, coal tit), rather than a small flock of the much larger eastern population being blown westward to ireland/scotland as vagrants who became established? Can't find any genetic work on this online... Regards Breffni ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fitzharris, Jim" To: Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [IBN-L] poison Breffni, Get this guy to write to the Farmers Journal! Cheers, Jim. -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Breffni Martin Sent: 05 March 2010 17:22 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: poison Interesting Michael - a local farmer (70+), who has had sheep in the cooley mountains all his life, tells me that he had always used to put out strychnine-baited carcasses to control foxes/crows etc. When it was banned he stopped (being a law abiding type) and assumed that his lambs would be decimated. Nothing happened; he says he had the same mortality as usual and he thinks that the crows/foxes will, at worst, only take the weaker animals who had little chance anyway, which will over time improve the quality of his stock of mountain sheep (he also believes that horns are essential on these animals, primarily for righting themselves if they get wet and roll into a ditch but also for defending themselves ). His opinion is that his fellow farmers often wilfully interpret gouged eyes, tongue and navel as evidence of crow predation when in fact the lamb, or "couped" sheep was probably already dead or nearly dead. Given that hooded crows probably have very good credentials as an irish/scottish "endemic" sub species (certainly better than "irish" red grouse for example) with a complex and interesting ecology, i find the bland acceptance of them as a universal outlaw deplorable, golden eagles notwithstanding! Breffni ----- Original Message ----- From: "Casey, Micheal" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [IBN-L] poison > Hi again, > > Just a thought - if anyone wants to have a real impact on this disaster, > the Farmer's Jopurnal might be a good place to start. While they have > take down the advice from the edition of 6/2/2010 advising people to use > alphachloralose on dead lambs to poison foxes, their website still > contains the following handy tip from 2007 in a profile of a Tipperary > sheep farm. > > I am pasting it here in case they take that page down too: > > "But the busy road is no deterrent to the grey crows and magpies that may > reside in the woods. > > John regards these as major pests against lambing sheep. In recent years > he has dealt with magpies and grey crows with the use of alphachloralose. > This is mixed with mincemeat and fat and placed alongside a fresh > stillborn lamb or even a fresh afterbirth. > > The procedure needs to be carried out before the weather heats up. Several > dead magpies around the farm testified to the success of the operation. > This approach is also useful in catching foxes." > > This is coming from one of the country's best-selling weekly publications, > the leading farming periodical, which is regarded by some farmers as a > source of objective advice. > > Is there a press complaints procedure that would be appropriate? > > Regards, > > Mícheál > > > > http://www.farmersjournal.ie/2007/0428/farmmanagement/sheep/feature.shtml > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of > Eamonn > Sent: 04 March 2010 11:16 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: poison > > If you are upset about one Golden Eagle imagine what it must be like to > have discovered this ! > > > > Bob > > > > http://surfbirds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=22220#post22220 > > > ######################################################################## > ############# > This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared > by MailMarshal > ######################################################################## > ############# > > ******************************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the sender. > ******************************************************************************** > Smurfit Kappa Group plc. Registered in Ireland No. 433527. > Registered office: Beech Hill, Clonskeagh, Dublin 4. > > Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food > > The information contained in this email and in any attachments is > confidential and is designated solely for the attention and use of the > intended recipient(s). This information may be subject to legal and > professional privilege. If you are not an intended recipient of this > email, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message > or any part of it. If you have received this email in error, please notify > the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email from your > computer system(s). > > An Roinn Talmhaíochta, Iascaigh agus Bia > > Tá an t-eolais san ríomhphost seo, agus in aon ceangláin leis, faoi > phribhléid agus faoi rún agus le h-aghaigh an seolaí amháin. D'fhéadfadh > ábhar an seoladh seo bheith faoi phribhléid profisiúnta nó dlíthiúil. Mura > tusa an seolaí a bhí beartaithe leis an ríomhphost seo a fháil, tá cosc > air, nó aon chuid de, a úsáid, a chóipeál, nó a scaoileadh. Má tháinig sé > chugat de bharr dearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir agus scrios > an t-ábhar ó do ríomhaire le do thoil. > ******************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. ******************************************************************************** Smurfit Kappa Group plc. Registered in Ireland No. 433527. Registered office: Beech Hill, Clonskeagh, Dublin 4. Subject: Re: Pacific Divers From: Mike O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:37:04 -0000 All, Tom Shevlin got some cracking shots of the Pacific Diver off Finvarra Point this morning http://wildlifesnaps.com/birds.php The bird was later relocated by Seamus Enright from Bishops Quarter Beach, about half way between Finvarra and Ballyvaughan. There were no Black-throated Divers in the bay but there were a minimum of 12 further north along the Flaggy Shore and east, including some birds well into breeding plumage. Regards Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Coveney Birds" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Pacific Divers > From www.irishbirding.com 13.10. Adult. Pacific Diver. Between Bishops > Quarter Beach and Finvarra Point > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of > Dermot Breen > Sent: 12 March 2010 19:28 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: Pacific Divers > > Last seen on Monday. Searched for Tuesday, Wednesday and today without > success. It may have moved further West along the Rine or East along > the Flaggy Shore, Aughinish Island or Doorus. Its a big area with alot > of divers around. 86 Black-throated, possibly up to 200 Great > northerns and a handful of Red-throats in the area last weekend. > > Dermot > > On 3/12/10, Ian Forsyth wrote: >> Only about a Stormy Pedestrian Jay Walker. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul Keogh" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:41 PM >> Subject: Re: Pacific Divers >> >> >> Hi, >> >> Is there any update on the Pacific Driver today. >> >> Thanks >> Paul >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of >> Michael O'Keeffe >> Sent: 11 March 2010 18:31 >> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE >> Subject: Pacific Divers >> >> Hi, >> >> Has anyone been looking for the Pacific Divers in recent days? Any > updates? >> >> Regards >> >> Mike >> > > -- > Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com > Subject: Re: Pied billed grebe From: Ronan McLaughlin <rpmclaughlin AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:04:00 -0000 Hi Lee, attached best of what Lough Gur, limerick has too offer, regards Rónán ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee G R Evans" To: Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:14 PM Subject: BUFFLEHEAD top billing > See _http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/_ > (http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/) for a pictorial version > > A total of 263 species has now been recorded in Britain and Ireland this > year, with a trickle of incoming spring migrant additions (Northern > Wheatear, European Barn Swallow, Sand Martin, White Wagtail, Willow > Warbler, Little > Ringed Plover and Common Tern), an Atlantic Puffin at Portland Bill, an > early Osprey at Hornsea Mere and the Dorset BUFFLEHEAD and Lincolnshire > AMERICAN GOLDEN PLOVER. > > The star attraction of the past week has been the beautiful drake > BUFFLEHEAD on The Fleet off Langton Herring (Dorset). The bird is > associating with > Red-breasted Mergansers and after first being seen at West Bexington and > Abbotsbury last Sunday, has spent all of its time on The Fleet between > Herbury Gore and the end of Lighthouse Road south of Langton Herring. It > represents the 10th considered 'genuine vagrant' Bufflehead in Britain > since 1950. > It is the first record for Dorset. > > An adult winter BONAPARTE'S GULL has also been a crowd-puller, returning > for a second successive spring to the River Taff in Cardiff (Glamorgan), > showing very well opposite the slipway of the Cardiff Bay Water Activity > Centre in Jim Driscoll Way. Two wintering LESSER SCAUPS are nearby, with > an > adult drake on the Eastern Lake of Cosmeston Lakes Country Park, south of > Penarth, and a female at the south end of Eglwys Nunnydd Reservoir. > > In Somerset, a CATTLE EGRET remains in Sharpham Park, with up to 3 GREAT > WHITE EGRETS in the Shapwick Heath area, the 3 first-winter GLOSSY IBISES > at > Ham Wall RSPB, with the drake LESSER SCAUP still on Bodmin Moor at > Dozmary > Pool (Cornwall) and an adult drake RING-NECKED DUCK on Roadford Reservoir > (Devon). A drake LESSER SCAUP visited Chew Valley Lake (Avon) on Sunday > and > Monday, whilst the juvenile PALLID HARRIER reappeared at Mulfra Hill, > Zennor, on 9th (Roy Phillips). > > One of last autumn's bumper crop of LONG-BILLED DOWITCHERS has reappeared > at Banks Marsh (Lancs), favouring the pool opposite Old Hollow Farm (view > from the seawall) > > In North Norfolk, a juvenile GLAUCOUS GULL has been favouring Sheringham > seafront throughout most of the past week, often roosting on the beach > breakwater groynes, with 50+ Snow Buntings still in Salthouse Beach car > park, 40 > Twite at Titchwell RSPB and 3 adult Black Brants at Wells Harbour. A lone > ROUGH-LEGGED BUZZARD is still present on Thorpe Marshes, between > Haddiscoe > and St Olaves > > In North Wales, the three drake SURF SCOTERS were located offshore today > at Old Colwyn (Conwy) (best viewed from the A55 Rainbow Footbridge at SH > 877 > 786), with the long-staying SHORE LARK nearby between the Point of Ayr > and > Gronant Beach (Clwyd). In Mid Wales, the juvenile BLACK KITE of unknown > origin is still visiting Gigrin Farm Feeding Station, Rhayader (Powys), > along > with 175 Red Kites, 45+ Common Ravens and 70 Common Buzzards. > > A TUNDRA BEAN GOOSE remains with Pink-footed Geese on Cockerham Moss > (Lancs), with 2 along Plex Moss Lane (Lancs), with the drake AMERICAN > WIGEON > again at Martin Mere WWT (from the Ron Barker Hide). > > A few BOHEMIAN WAXWINGS linger, including the Finchley (London) > first-winter, six in Plover Road, Ipswich (Suffolk), the four opposite > the health > centre by the Shelton Street/Hockley Road roundabout in Wilnecote, > Tamworth > (Staffs), four in Panton Street, Cambridge (Cambs) and several small > flocks > in Scotland. > > NORTHERN GREY SHRIKES remain on territory in the Clocaenog Forest, at > Dalton Crags (Cumbria), at Waddington Fell (Lancs) (SD 716 459), near Usk > Reservoir (Powys), on Teifi Marshes NR (Pembs), near Welbourn (Lincs) and > in the > New Forest at Burley (Hants) (Burbush Hill car park). > > In Scotland, an adult drake AMERICAN WIGEON continues to afford > exceptional views on the Whooper Pond at Caerlaverock WWT (Dumfries & > Galloway), as > does a drake LESSER SCAUP at Hogganfield Loch, Glasgow (Clyde), the 3 > SNOW > GEESE remain with Pink-footed and Greylag Geese at the NE end of Nigg Bay > (Highland), adult RING-BILLED GULL at Dingwall Leisure Centre, an adult > BONAPARTE'S GULL at Thurso River Mouth (Caithness) and drake KING EIDER > off > Roseisle car park (Moray). Meanwhile, the LITTLE BUNTING is still > visiting the > feeding station in Dunnet (Caithness) > > On the Outer Hebrides, the resident male SNOWY OWL was showing well today > at Borve, Lewis, sheltering by the pine plantation north of the A857 at > NB > 426 579. > > Migrants today include perhaps 8 Northern Wheatears, a few Little Ringed > Plovers, a trickle of Sandwich Terns, the odd Garganey, numerous Black > Redstarts and Firecrests, a European Barn Swallow at Wroot (Lincs), Red > Kites > and the first OSPREY of the year, at Hornsea Mere (East Yorks) > > Both Hooded Mergansers of unknown origin remain, with the adult drake at > Radipole Lake (Dorset) and a first-winter drake at Saltholme Pools RSPB > (Cleveland), whilst a Golden Eagle roams Luccombe Down on the Isle of > Wight for > a second day. > > A drake RING-NECKED DUCK remains at Lough Gara (Co. Sligo), with 1-2 > SMALL > CANADA GEESE (hutchinsii) with Barnacle Geese at Ballintemple/Raghley > (Co. > Sligo), a vagrant CANADA GOOSE (parvipes) at Trawbega Bay (Co. Donegal), > a > female Ruddy Shelduck still at Culleenemore Strand, Sligo Harbour (Co. > Sligo) and the drake NORTH AMERICAN BLACK DUCK at Sruhill Lough (Co. > Mayo). Up > to 3 RING-BILLED GULLS remain in Cork at Cuskinny Marsh, with the adult > FORSTER'S TERN at Mutton Island Causeway, Galway Harbour. The Lough > Atedaun > (Co. Clare) PIED-BILLED GREBE was present until at least Wednesday. > > There has been no sign of the Clare PACIFIC DIVER this week despite > searching, although up to 86 Black-throated Divers were located offshore, > several > Red-throated and several hundred Great Northerns. > > > Lee G R Evans > British Birding Association > UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and > Conservationist > Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_ > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/) > Rare Bird Alert: > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/_ > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/) > Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com > Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_ > (http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/) > Related Blog Sites: _http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/_ > (http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/) _ > http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/ > http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/_ > (http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/) _ > http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/_ > (http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/) > _http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/_ > (http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/) > _http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/_ > (http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/) > _http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/_ > (http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/) > _http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/_ > (http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/) > > Chaffinch House > 8 Sandycroft Road > Little Chalfont > Amersham > Buckinghamshire > England > HP6 6QL > > Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 > Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 > > (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences > in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North > America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine > and > other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders) > Subject: Re: Pacific Divers From: John Coveney Birds <birds AT ECOVENEY.IE> Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:34:46 -0000 From www.irishbirding.com 13.10. Adult. Pacific Diver. Between Bishops Quarter Beach and Finvarra Point -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Dermot Breen Sent: 12 March 2010 19:28 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: Pacific Divers Last seen on Monday. Searched for Tuesday, Wednesday and today without success. It may have moved further West along the Rine or East along the Flaggy Shore, Aughinish Island or Doorus. Its a big area with alot of divers around. 86 Black-throated, possibly up to 200 Great northerns and a handful of Red-throats in the area last weekend. Dermot On 3/12/10, Ian Forsyth wrote: > Only about a Stormy Pedestrian Jay Walker. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Keogh" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:41 PM > Subject: Re: Pacific Divers > > > Hi, > > Is there any update on the Pacific Driver today. > > Thanks > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of > Michael O'Keeffe > Sent: 11 March 2010 18:31 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Pacific Divers > > Hi, > > Has anyone been looking for the Pacific Divers in recent days? Any updates? > > Regards > > Mike > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com Subject: BUFFLEHEAD top billing From: Lee G R Evans <LGREUK400 AT AOL.COM> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:14:22 EST See _http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/_ (http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/) for a pictorial version A total of 263 species has now been recorded in Britain and Ireland this year, with a trickle of incoming spring migrant additions (Northern Wheatear, European Barn Swallow, Sand Martin, White Wagtail, Willow Warbler, Little Ringed Plover and Common Tern), an Atlantic Puffin at Portland Bill, an early Osprey at Hornsea Mere and the Dorset BUFFLEHEAD and Lincolnshire AMERICAN GOLDEN PLOVER. The star attraction of the past week has been the beautiful drake BUFFLEHEAD on The Fleet off Langton Herring (Dorset). The bird is associating with Red-breasted Mergansers and after first being seen at West Bexington and Abbotsbury last Sunday, has spent all of its time on The Fleet between Herbury Gore and the end of Lighthouse Road south of Langton Herring. It represents the 10th considered 'genuine vagrant' Bufflehead in Britain since 1950. It is the first record for Dorset. An adult winter BONAPARTE'S GULL has also been a crowd-puller, returning for a second successive spring to the River Taff in Cardiff (Glamorgan), showing very well opposite the slipway of the Cardiff Bay Water Activity Centre in Jim Driscoll Way. Two wintering LESSER SCAUPS are nearby, with an adult drake on the Eastern Lake of Cosmeston Lakes Country Park, south of Penarth, and a female at the south end of Eglwys Nunnydd Reservoir. In Somerset, a CATTLE EGRET remains in Sharpham Park, with up to 3 GREAT WHITE EGRETS in the Shapwick Heath area, the 3 first-winter GLOSSY IBISES at Ham Wall RSPB, with the drake LESSER SCAUP still on Bodmin Moor at Dozmary Pool (Cornwall) and an adult drake RING-NECKED DUCK on Roadford Reservoir (Devon). A drake LESSER SCAUP visited Chew Valley Lake (Avon) on Sunday and Monday, whilst the juvenile PALLID HARRIER reappeared at Mulfra Hill, Zennor, on 9th (Roy Phillips). One of last autumn's bumper crop of LONG-BILLED DOWITCHERS has reappeared at Banks Marsh (Lancs), favouring the pool opposite Old Hollow Farm (view from the seawall) In North Norfolk, a juvenile GLAUCOUS GULL has been favouring Sheringham seafront throughout most of the past week, often roosting on the beach breakwater groynes, with 50+ Snow Buntings still in Salthouse Beach car park, 40 Twite at Titchwell RSPB and 3 adult Black Brants at Wells Harbour. A lone ROUGH-LEGGED BUZZARD is still present on Thorpe Marshes, between Haddiscoe and St Olaves In North Wales, the three drake SURF SCOTERS were located offshore today at Old Colwyn (Conwy) (best viewed from the A55 Rainbow Footbridge at SH 877 786), with the long-staying SHORE LARK nearby between the Point of Ayr and Gronant Beach (Clwyd). In Mid Wales, the juvenile BLACK KITE of unknown origin is still visiting Gigrin Farm Feeding Station, Rhayader (Powys), along with 175 Red Kites, 45+ Common Ravens and 70 Common Buzzards. A TUNDRA BEAN GOOSE remains with Pink-footed Geese on Cockerham Moss (Lancs), with 2 along Plex Moss Lane (Lancs), with the drake AMERICAN WIGEON again at Martin Mere WWT (from the Ron Barker Hide). A few BOHEMIAN WAXWINGS linger, including the Finchley (London) first-winter, six in Plover Road, Ipswich (Suffolk), the four opposite the health centre by the Shelton Street/Hockley Road roundabout in Wilnecote, Tamworth (Staffs), four in Panton Street, Cambridge (Cambs) and several small flocks in Scotland. NORTHERN GREY SHRIKES remain on territory in the Clocaenog Forest, at Dalton Crags (Cumbria), at Waddington Fell (Lancs) (SD 716 459), near Usk Reservoir (Powys), on Teifi Marshes NR (Pembs), near Welbourn (Lincs) and in the New Forest at Burley (Hants) (Burbush Hill car park). In Scotland, an adult drake AMERICAN WIGEON continues to afford exceptional views on the Whooper Pond at Caerlaverock WWT (Dumfries & Galloway), as does a drake LESSER SCAUP at Hogganfield Loch, Glasgow (Clyde), the 3 SNOW GEESE remain with Pink-footed and Greylag Geese at the NE end of Nigg Bay (Highland), adult RING-BILLED GULL at Dingwall Leisure Centre, an adult BONAPARTE'S GULL at Thurso River Mouth (Caithness) and drake KING EIDER off Roseisle car park (Moray). Meanwhile, the LITTLE BUNTING is still visiting the feeding station in Dunnet (Caithness) On the Outer Hebrides, the resident male SNOWY OWL was showing well today at Borve, Lewis, sheltering by the pine plantation north of the A857 at NB 426 579. Migrants today include perhaps 8 Northern Wheatears, a few Little Ringed Plovers, a trickle of Sandwich Terns, the odd Garganey, numerous Black Redstarts and Firecrests, a European Barn Swallow at Wroot (Lincs), Red Kites and the first OSPREY of the year, at Hornsea Mere (East Yorks) Both Hooded Mergansers of unknown origin remain, with the adult drake at Radipole Lake (Dorset) and a first-winter drake at Saltholme Pools RSPB (Cleveland), whilst a Golden Eagle roams Luccombe Down on the Isle of Wight for a second day. A drake RING-NECKED DUCK remains at Lough Gara (Co. Sligo), with 1-2 SMALL CANADA GEESE (hutchinsii) with Barnacle Geese at Ballintemple/Raghley (Co. Sligo), a vagrant CANADA GOOSE (parvipes) at Trawbega Bay (Co. Donegal), a female Ruddy Shelduck still at Culleenemore Strand, Sligo Harbour (Co. Sligo) and the drake NORTH AMERICAN BLACK DUCK at Sruhill Lough (Co. Mayo). Up to 3 RING-BILLED GULLS remain in Cork at Cuskinny Marsh, with the adult FORSTER'S TERN at Mutton Island Causeway, Galway Harbour. The Lough Atedaun (Co. Clare) PIED-BILLED GREBE was present until at least Wednesday. There has been no sign of the Clare PACIFIC DIVER this week despite searching, although up to 86 Black-throated Divers were located offshore, several Red-throated and several hundred Great Northerns. Lee G R Evans British Birding Association UK400 Club, Rare Birds Magazine, Ornithological Consultant and Conservationist Discussion Forum/Email Group: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK400Club/) Rare Bird Alert: _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RareBirdAlertforBritainandIreland_UK400ClubBBA/) Email Address: LGREUK400 AT aol.com Website Address: _www.uk400clubonline.co.uk_ (http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/) Related Blog Sites: _http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/_ (http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/) _ http://rarebirdsinthewesternpalearctic.blogspot.com/ http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/_ (http://birdingamersham.blogspot.com/) _ http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/_ (http://birdingtringreservoirs.blogspot.com/) _http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://calvertbirding.blogspot.com/) _http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://hertfordshirebirding.blogspot.com/) _http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/_ (http://buckinghamshirebirding.blogspot.com/) _http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/_ (http://birdreportexchange.blogspot.com/) Chaffinch House 8 Sandycroft Road Little Chalfont Amersham Buckinghamshire England HP6 6QL Telephones: 01494 763010 and 01494 581157 Mobile/Text Alerts: 07881 906629 (Lee Evans Enterprises incorporate documentation of rare bird occurrences in Britain & Ireland and elsewhere in the Western Palearctic and in North America; Rare Bird Information and Rare Bird Alerts; Rare Birds Magazine and other related publications; Bird Tours for Birders) Subject: Re: Pacific Divers From: Dermot Breen <breen.dermot AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:27:48 +0000 Last seen on Monday. Searched for Tuesday, Wednesday and today without success. It may have moved further West along the Rine or East along the Flaggy Shore, Aughinish Island or Doorus. Its a big area with alot of divers around. 86 Black-throated, possibly up to 200 Great northerns and a handful of Red-throats in the area last weekend. Dermot On 3/12/10, Ian Forsyth wrote: > Only about a Stormy Pedestrian Jay Walker. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Keogh" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:41 PM > Subject: Re: Pacific Divers > > > Hi, > > Is there any update on the Pacific Driver today. > > Thanks > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of > Michael O'Keeffe > Sent: 11 March 2010 18:31 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Pacific Divers > > Hi, > > Has anyone been looking for the Pacific Divers in recent days? Any updates? > > Regards > > Mike > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com Subject: Re: Pacific Divers From: Ian Forsyth <ian.forsyth24 AT BTINTERNET.COM> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:53:40 -0000 Only about a Stormy Pedestrian Jay Walker. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Keogh" To: Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: Pacific Divers Hi, Is there any update on the Pacific Driver today. Thanks Paul -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Michael O'Keeffe Sent: 11 March 2010 18:31 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Pacific Divers Hi, Has anyone been looking for the Pacific Divers in recent days? Any updates? Regards Mike Subject: Re: Pacific Divers From: Paul Keogh <Keogh.Paul AT ITSLIGO.IE> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:41:49 +0000 Hi, Is there any update on the Pacific Driver today. Thanks Paul -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Michael O'Keeffe Sent: 11 March 2010 18:31 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Pacific Divers Hi, Has anyone been looking for the Pacific Divers in recent days? Any updates? Regards Mike Subject: Brian Carruthers From: Joseph Doolan <joseph AT INDIGO.IE> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:08:27 -0000 Brian Carruthers has informed me that visited the Gialova Lagoon, Greece, during April 2009. He photographed many birds including the Fan-tailed Warbler and Cetti's Warbler submitted to www.irishbirding.com on the 7th of March, 2010. Brian has apologised for what he did on the 7th of March 2010 but for a variety of reasons (legal and health and safety) I cannot comment as to why he did what he did. I hope that Brian will in the fullness of time explain all on the IBN and or in the field. Regards. Joe Subject: Possible new species of storm-petrel off Puerto Montt, Chile From: Michael O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:51:05 -0000 All, For anyone interested in reading the full report on these strange storm-petrels recorded by a number of us on a trip to Chile last February, Bob Flood is now featuring on his website the unedited article (originally published in the journal Dutch Birding a few months ago). Joe Doolin also still has the shortened version on his site, linked from the home page. The most recent updates are that these birds have been seen again in some numbers from the Chiloé Island ferry this winter. As many as 200 birds were reported on one visit to the area we have been informed. There is quite some interest in this in Chile now and it is hoped the puzzle will be resolved before long. No doubt a decent bucket of chum would go a long way to resolving things. For those who may have not read the article in full, Peter Harrison's involvment is particularly interesting. Another interesting and as yet unanswered question is the possiblity that two skins in the museum in Buenos Aires which are currently assigned to Elliot's Storm-petrel may in fact refer to the Puerto Montt birds. Could a new bird be lurking undiscovered on our doorstep? http://scillypelagics.com/Oceanites_Puerto_Montt_Chile.html Regards Mike Subject: Pacific Divers From: Michael O'Keeffe <okeeffeml AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:31:03 -0000 Hi, Has anyone been looking for the Pacific Divers in recent days? Any updates? Regards Mike Subject: Re: That Book From: Darragh Sherwin <darragh.sherwin AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:31:20 +0000 Sorry, €15.34 in Reads on Nassau Street Sent from my iPhone On 11 Mar 2010, at 14:29, Darragh Sherwin wrote: > Got a paperback copy of it today for €15.3 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 9 Mar 2010, at 21:18, Mike O'Keeffe wrote: > >> Easons have the paperback for under €20 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eamonn O'Donnell" > > >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:56 PM >> Subject: That Book >> >> >> Hello boys, >> On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the >> two >> Warblers in a hurry. >> I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the >> Collins >> Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is an >> amazing >> publication. The art and print quality are simply fantastic. >> I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to >> your loved >> one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love you >> even more >> when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK delivered for >> €20 !!!! >> >> The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of >> species such as >> Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know even >> less than >> I thought I did about birds !! >> >> I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >> >> Don't delay, buy it today. >> >> Bob Subject: Re: That Book From: Darragh Sherwin <darragh.sherwin AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:29:51 +0000 Got a paperback copy of it today for €15.3 Sent from my iPhone On 9 Mar 2010, at 21:18, Mike O'Keeffe wrote: > Easons have the paperback for under €20 > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eamonn O'Donnell" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:56 PM > Subject: That Book > > > Hello boys, > On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the > two > Warblers in a hurry. > I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the > Collins > Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is an > amazing > publication. The art and print quality are simply fantastic. > I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to > your loved > one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love you > even more > when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK delivered for €2 > 0 !!!! > > The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species > such as > Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know even > less than > I thought I did about birds !! > > I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) > > Don't delay, buy it today. > > Bob Subject: Re: That book again From: Hugh Delaney <hughdelaney AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:05:25 +0000 That book needs KM drawing and painting the stints and peeps, for that alone i would be worth coughing up for a 3rd addition!, regards Hugh ----- "Eamonn O'Donnell" wrote: > "..................and the shocking number of typos, especially in > the > book's index " > > Don't worry Muller, while spending long long hours sitting on Blannan > or The > Bridges nature occassionally calls so the index may come in > handy....as > Barrington did. > > Bob Subject: Brent/Brant From: Sean Cronin <n737wh AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:56:20 +0000 Hi All I've just put up a comparison shot of the various brent/brant/whatever at Aghada, Cork Harbour on my Flickr page at http://www.flickr.com/photos/sean_cronin/4422655281/?addedcomment=1#comment72157623470410057 All the best Sean _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 Subject: Re: That book again From: Steve Wing <steve.ccbo AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:54:58 +0000 So it WAS you! On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Eamonn O'Donnell wrote: > "..................and the shocking number of typos, especially in the > book's index " > > Don't worry Muller, while spending long long hours sitting on Blannan or > The > Bridges nature occassionally calls so the index may come in handy....as > Barrington did. > > Bob > Subject: That book again From: Eamonn O'Donnell <bobolink300 AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:53:17 +0000 "..................and the shocking number of typos, especially in the book's index " Don't worry Muller, while spending long long hours sitting on Blannan or The Bridges nature occassionally calls so the index may come in handy....as Barrington did. Bob Subject: Re: That Book From: Kieran Fahy <kieranfahy AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:49:15 -0000 You've got to worry about those kids though - what sort of slipshod example is that to show them - disgraceful parenting ! Kieran -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Eugene ARCHER Sent: 10 March 2010 15:43 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Probably the page with the Fan-tailed Warbler on it Mícheál ;-) Excellent story. The subject title should now be changed to "tales of love and devotion" I think :-) Eugene Casey, Micheal wrote: > I just decided to get my second edition (which is lovely) scuffed up ASAP, so I can relax and stop minding it then. > > There must be loads of stories about the first edition. > > My first edition, which was already well travelled and pretty wrecked, got left on the roof of the car by SOMEBODY who was cleaning the car before she went on a short trip. To her horror she saw the pages all over the road and the roadside fields on the way back an hour later, gathered them up (which I am informed took ages even with help from the kids) dried them, put them in order and put a rubber band around them. I got presented with it when I got home. > > I pointed out that one page is missing, which didn't go down well. > > Never found it since either, and I am not convinced she has been searching properly. > > Mícheál > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Eamonn > Sent: 10 March 2010 15:12 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: That Book > > Mine will likely never see the glare of the Tachumshin Spring sunshine or feel the October drizzle on Blannan or smell the freshness of a winter breeze in Killybegs.........my old trusty 1st edition will continue to serve that purpose. > > I was thinking of setting up my 2nd edition like the Book of Kells and turn one page every day and admire it momentarily. > > bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Fitzpatrick, Dara > Sent: 10 March 2010 14:58 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: That Book > > > > Hi All / Killian, > > Given the backdrop to the preparation of the 2nd edition which Killian writes about in this months Birdwatching then it really is a credit to all the authors that we have managed to get our paws on it. I've no complaints about the book other than I'm afraid to take it out into the field knowing that it's going to look like my abused but much loved first addition in a short space of time. I also feel like I've robbed my hardback copy as I got it for EUR12 in the pre-publication sale. It is nice to see the book evolve and reflect the field craft of birders and just like the first addition it is a snap shot of where we're at now. I also think the way forward might be continually updated apps with high res plates which can be enlarged on screen for detail. > > Enjoy, > > Dara > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Richard Mills > Sent: 09 March 2010 22:54 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: That Book > > A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. > > One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into loons? > > Has there been some change that I've missed? > > Richard. > > At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: > >> Hello boys, >> On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the two >> Warblers in a hurry. >> I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the Collins >> Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is an amazing >> publication. The art and print quality are simply fantastic. >> I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your loved >> one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love you even more >> when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK delivered for EUR20 !!!! >> >> The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species such as >> Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know even less than >> I thought I did about birds !! >> >> I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >> >> Don't delay, buy it today. >> >> Bob >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >> - Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 >> > > ############################################################################ ######### > This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared > by MailMarshal > ############################################################################ ######### > > Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food > > The information contained in this email and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention and use of the intended recipient(s). This information may be subject to legal and professional privilege. If you are not an intended recipient of this email, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message or any part of it. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email from your computer system(s). > > An Roinn Talmhaíochta, Iascaigh agus Bia > > Tá an t-eolais san ríomhphost seo, agus in aon ceangláin leis, faoi phribhléid agus faoi rún agus le h-aghaigh an seolaí amháin. D'fhéadfadh ábhar an seoladh seo bheith faoi phribhléid profisiúnta nó dlíthiúil. Mura tusa an seolaí a bhí beartaithe leis an ríomhphost seo a fháil, tá cosc air, nó aon chuid de, a úsáid, a chóipeál, nó a scaoileadh. Má tháinig sé chugat de bharr dearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir agus scrios an t-ábhar ó do ríomhaire le do thoil. > Subject: Re: That Book From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:42:51 +0100 Probably the page with the Fan-tailed Warbler on it Mícheál ;-) Excellent story. The subject title should now be changed to "tales of love and devotion" I think :-) Eugene Casey, Micheal wrote: > I just decided to get my second edition (which is lovely) scuffed up ASAP, so I can relax and stop minding it then. > > There must be loads of stories about the first edition. > > My first edition, which was already well travelled and pretty wrecked, got left on the roof of the car by SOMEBODY who was cleaning the car before she went on a short trip. To her horror she saw the pages all over the road and the roadside fields on the way back an hour later, gathered them up (which I am informed took ages even with help from the kids) dried them, put them in order and put a rubber band around them. I got presented with it when I got home. > > I pointed out that one page is missing, which didn't go down well. > > Never found it since either, and I am not convinced she has been searching properly. > > Mícheál > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Eamonn > Sent: 10 March 2010 15:12 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: That Book > > Mine will likely never see the glare of the Tachumshin Spring sunshine or feel the October drizzle on Blannan or smell the freshness of a winter breeze in Killybegs.........my old trusty 1st edition will continue to serve that purpose. > > I was thinking of setting up my 2nd edition like the Book of Kells and turn one page every day and admire it momentarily. > > bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Fitzpatrick, Dara > Sent: 10 March 2010 14:58 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: That Book > > > > Hi All / Killian, > > Given the backdrop to the preparation of the 2nd edition which Killian writes about in this months Birdwatching then it really is a credit to all the authors that we have managed to get our paws on it. I've no complaints about the book other than I'm afraid to take it out into the field knowing that it's going to look like my abused but much loved first addition in a short space of time. I also feel like I've robbed my hardback copy as I got it for EUR12 in the pre-publication sale. It is nice to see the book evolve and reflect the field craft of birders and just like the first addition it is a snap shot of where we're at now. I also think the way forward might be continually updated apps with high res plates which can be enlarged on screen for detail. > > Enjoy, > > Dara > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Richard Mills > Sent: 09 March 2010 22:54 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: That Book > > A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. > > One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into loons? > > Has there been some change that I've missed? > > Richard. > > At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: > >> Hello boys, >> On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the two >> Warblers in a hurry. >> I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the Collins >> Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is an amazing >> publication. The art and print quality are simply fantastic. >> I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your loved >> one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love you even more >> when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK delivered for EUR20 !!!! >> >> The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species such as >> Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know even less than >> I thought I did about birds !! >> >> I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >> >> Don't delay, buy it today. >> >> Bob >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >> - Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 >> > > ##################################################################################### > This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared > by MailMarshal > ##################################################################################### > > Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food > > The information contained in this email and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention and use of the intended recipient(s). This information may be subject to legal and professional privilege. If you are not an intended recipient of this email, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message or any part of it. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email from your computer system(s). > > An Roinn Talmhaíochta, Iascaigh agus Bia > > Tá an t-eolais san ríomhphost seo, agus in aon ceangláin leis, faoi phribhléid agus faoi rún agus le h-aghaigh an seolaí amháin. D'fhéadfadh ábhar an seoladh seo bheith faoi phribhléid profisiúnta nó dlíthiúil. Mura tusa an seolaí a bhí beartaithe leis an ríomhphost seo a fháil, tá cosc air, nó aon chuid de, a úsáid, a chóipeál, nó a scaoileadh. Má tháinig sé chugat de bharr dearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir agus scrios an t-ábhar ó do ríomhaire le do thoil. > Subject: Re: Petrel rediscovered after 83 years From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:28:06 -0000 I thought New Zealand Petrel was the one some lad kept seeing but nobody believed him until it was photographed after the poor hoor killed himself due to depression ? -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Fitzpatrick, Dara Sent: 10 March 2010 15:22 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Petrel rediscovered after 83 years This is an interesting article about the Vanuatu Petrel / New Zealand Petrel(?) It looks like another Fea's / Zino's complex. http://travelblog.zeco.com/ http://www.birdwatch.co.uk/website/content/view/3093/32/ Regards, Dara ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal ##################################################################################### Subject: Re: That Book From: "Casey, Micheal" <Micheal.Casey AT AGRICULTURE.GOV.IE> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:26:45 +0000 I just decided to get my second edition (which is lovely) scuffed up ASAP, so I can relax and stop minding it then. There must be loads of stories about the first edition. My first edition, which was already well travelled and pretty wrecked, got left on the roof of the car by SOMEBODY who was cleaning the car before she went on a short trip. To her horror she saw the pages all over the road and the roadside fields on the way back an hour later, gathered them up (which I am informed took ages even with help from the kids) dried them, put them in order and put a rubber band around them. I got presented with it when I got home. I pointed out that one page is missing, which didn't go down well. Never found it since either, and I am not convinced she has been searching properly. Mícheál -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Eamonn Sent: 10 March 2010 15:12 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Mine will likely never see the glare of the Tachumshin Spring sunshine or feel the October drizzle on Blannan or smell the freshness of a winter breeze in Killybegs.........my old trusty 1st edition will continue to serve that purpose. I was thinking of setting up my 2nd edition like the Book of Kells and turn one page every day and admire it momentarily. bob -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Fitzpatrick, Dara Sent: 10 March 2010 14:58 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Hi All / Killian, Given the backdrop to the preparation of the 2nd edition which Killian writes about in this months Birdwatching then it really is a credit to all the authors that we have managed to get our paws on it. I've no complaints about the book other than I'm afraid to take it out into the field knowing that it's going to look like my abused but much loved first addition in a short space of time. I also feel like I've robbed my hardback copy as I got it for €12 in the pre-publication sale. It is nice to see the book evolve and reflect the field craft of birders and just like the first addition it is a snap shot of where we're at now. I also think the way forward might be continually updated apps with high res plates which can be enlarged on screen for detail. Enjoy, Dara -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Richard Mills Sent: 09 March 2010 22:54 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into loons? Has there been some change that I've missed? Richard. At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >Hello boys, >On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the two >Warblers in a hurry. >I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the Collins >Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is an amazing >publication. The art and print quality are simply fantastic. >I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your loved >one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love you even more >when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK delivered for €20 !!!! > >The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species such as >Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know even less than >I thought I did about birds !! > >I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) > >Don't delay, buy it today. > >Bob > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >- Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal ##################################################################################### Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food The information contained in this email and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention and use of the intended recipient(s). This information may be subject to legal and professional privilege. If you are not an intended recipient of this email, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message or any part of it. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this email from your computer system(s). An Roinn Talmhaíochta, Iascaigh agus Bia Tá an t-eolais san ríomhphost seo, agus in aon ceangláin leis, faoi phribhléid agus faoi rún agus le h-aghaigh an seolaí amháin. D’fhéadfadh ábhar an seoladh seo bheith faoi phribhléid profisiúnta nó dlíthiúil. Mura tusa an seolaí a bhí beartaithe leis an ríomhphost seo a fháil, tá cosc air, nó aon chuid de, a úsáid, a chóipeál, nó a scaoileadh. Má tháinig sé chugat de bharr dearmad, téigh i dteagmháil leis an seoltóir agus scrios an t-ábhar ó do ríomhaire le do thoil. Subject: Petrel rediscovered after 83 years From: "Fitzpatrick, Dara" <d.fitzpatrick AT UCC.IE> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:22:25 -0000 This is an interesting article about the Vanuatu Petrel / New Zealand Petrel(?) It looks like another Fea's / Zino's complex. http://travelblog.zeco.com/ http://www.birdwatch.co.uk/website/content/view/3093/32/ Regards, Dara Subject: Re: That Book From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:18:34 -0000 Only my friends Eugene. Both of you ! -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Eugene ARCHER Sent: 10 March 2010 15:16 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book If we come around to you house Bob will you let us in for free and give us tea and biscuits afterwards ???? Eamonn wrote: > I was thinking of setting up my 2nd edition like the Book of Kells and turn one page every day and admire it momentarily. > > bob ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal ##################################################################################### Subject: Re: That Book From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:16:15 +0100 If we come around to you house Bob will you let us in for free and give us tea and biscuits afterwards ???? Eamonn wrote: > I was thinking of setting up my 2nd edition like the Book of Kells and turn one page every day and admire it momentarily. > > bob Subject: Re: That Book From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:12:18 -0000 Mine will likely never see the glare of the Tachumshin Spring sunshine or feel the October drizzle on Blannan or smell the freshness of a winter breeze in Killybegs.........my old trusty 1st edition will continue to serve that purpose. I was thinking of setting up my 2nd edition like the Book of Kells and turn one page every day and admire it momentarily. bob -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Fitzpatrick, Dara Sent: 10 March 2010 14:58 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Hi All / Killian, Given the backdrop to the preparation of the 2nd edition which Killian writes about in this months Birdwatching then it really is a credit to all the authors that we have managed to get our paws on it. I've no complaints about the book other than I'm afraid to take it out into the field knowing that it's going to look like my abused but much loved first addition in a short space of time. I also feel like I've robbed my hardback copy as I got it for €12 in the pre-publication sale. It is nice to see the book evolve and reflect the field craft of birders and just like the first addition it is a snap shot of where we're at now. I also think the way forward might be continually updated apps with high res plates which can be enlarged on screen for detail. Enjoy, Dara -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Richard Mills Sent: 09 March 2010 22:54 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into loons? Has there been some change that I've missed? Richard. At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >Hello boys, >On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the two >Warblers in a hurry. >I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the Collins >Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is an amazing >publication. The art and print quality are simply fantastic. >I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your loved >one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love you even more >when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK delivered for €20 !!!! > >The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species such as >Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know even less than >I thought I did about birds !! > >I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) > >Don't delay, buy it today. > >Bob > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >- Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal ##################################################################################### Subject: Re: That Book From: "Fitzpatrick, Dara" <d.fitzpatrick AT UCC.IE> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:58:01 -0000 Hi All / Killian, Given the backdrop to the preparation of the 2nd edition which Killian writes about in this months Birdwatching then it really is a credit to all the authors that we have managed to get our paws on it. I've no complaints about the book other than I'm afraid to take it out into the field knowing that it's going to look like my abused but much loved first addition in a short space of time. I also feel like I've robbed my hardback copy as I got it for €12 in the pre-publication sale. It is nice to see the book evolve and reflect the field craft of birders and just like the first addition it is a snap shot of where we're at now. I also think the way forward might be continually updated apps with high res plates which can be enlarged on screen for detail. Enjoy, Dara -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Richard Mills Sent: 09 March 2010 22:54 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into loons? Has there been some change that I've missed? Richard. At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >Hello boys, >On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the two >Warblers in a hurry. >I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the Collins >Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is an amazing >publication. The art and print quality are simply fantastic. >I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your loved >one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love you even more >when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK delivered for €20 !!!! > >The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species such as >Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know even less than >I thought I did about birds !! > >I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) > >Don't delay, buy it today. > >Bob > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >- Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 Subject: Re: That Book . . . and others From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:00:43 +0100 :-) I hadn't noticed that Dermot !!! But you might well be right . . . . sorting out a Fantasy-tailed Warbler from a Czechies Warbler is bound to leave one in a state of mental disorder :-0 Eugene Dermot McCabe wrote: > Eugene, > I see from the Book Depository site that people who looked at the Reed > and Bush Warblers book also bought a volume on Mental Disorders. > A useful combination surely? > Dermot. > > On 10 March 2010 10:34, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> On my current wish-list of books are the following: >> >> http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9780713645712/Birds-of-the-Western-Palearctic >> >> and >> >> http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9780713660227/Reed-and-Bush-Warblers >> >> Both look as if they will be essential additions to anyone's library . . . . >> and check out those pre-publication prices ! >> >> All the best, >> >> Eugene >> >> colin.mcnamee AT PRINTPOST.IE wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> The new guide is nothing short of brilliant. I have not seen a field guide >>> that comes close. The first edition was the benchmark for field guides but >>> this raised the bar considerably. >>> >>> I like Eamonn, was surprised with some species - took me a while to work >>> out Isabelline Warbler ( thankfully I've seen it) - but Maghreb Wheatear >>> means I've to go back to Morocco again ! The atlantic islands pigeons plate >>> is stunning and I must say I liked Hypocolius and some of the re-worked owls >>> too. The yanks are a real improvement on the previous edition. >>> >>> It wouldn't take too much too expand it to all of the western palearctic - >>> now there's a thought ! This was certainly worth waiting for and no doubt >>> it's possible to pick a few holes in it but there is no other field guide >>> that comes up to it. >>> >>> If you haven't got this book yet - you should. >>> >>> (Fiver to the usual address Killian !) >>> >>> Colin >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of >>> Fitzharris, Jim >>> Sent: 10 March 2010 10:06 >>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE >>> Subject: Re: That Book >>> >>> >>> Killian, >>> >>> What was your response to the gent in Galway? >>> >>> Something along the lines of:- >>> >>> "There are indeed DIVERS out there but the LOONS are on the shore looking >>> at them ............" >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of >>> Killian Mullarney >>> Sent: 10 March 2010 00:16 >>> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE >>> Subject: Re: That Book >>> >>> Hi Richard, >>> >>> You might be surprised to find, if you take a look at your old copy of the >>> Collins Bird Guide, that the divers are 'loons' in there too! A few weeks >>> ago I responded to a complaint about the choice of 'loon' over 'diver' in a >>> thread on Birdforum, not necessarily to defend it, but to explain how it >>> came about. Here is what I wrote then: >>> >>> As those of us who have been around for a few years will know, the subject >>> of English bird names is a highly emotive matter. It was probably never more >>> of an issue than back in the mid-90s when there was a lot of effort put into >>> trying to achieve a standardised list of English bird names. We may question >>> now what the absolute imperative for standarisation was, but back then it >>> seemed, to some at least, really important. >>> >>> One of the most thoughtful contributions to the debate came in the form of >>> a small booklet entitled Palearctic Birds: a Checklist of the birds of >>> Europe, North Africa and Asia by Mark Beaman, published privately in 1994. I >>> reproduce Beaman's discourse on the merits of 'loon' versus 'diver', just to >>> demonstrate how consideration of the question from a broad (and particularly >>> a long-term) perspective convinced us, at the time, that there was some >>> merit in adopting 'loon'. >>> >>> "The use of 'loon' in north America and 'diver' in the Old world for >>> members of the Gaviidae is a long-established dichotomy but one that must be >>> addressed if a standardised world list of English bird names is to be >>> achieved. Although recognising that 'diver' is dear to the hearts of >>> ornithologists in the British Isles, 'loon' seems to me to have the edge. >>> Although now used mainly in North America, 'loon' originated as a bird name >>> in Britain and has a long history of use, dating back to at least 1634 in >>> the literature (Simpson & Weiner 1989). The word derives of the Old Norse >>> lómr (the primary sense of which is moan, i.e. moaning bird: see Lockwood >>> 1984), by way of 'loom' and 'loone', and so has an ancient lineage. To my >>> mind 'loon' has the advantage of being unique to the Gaviidae in the same >>> way that 'grebe' is unique to Podicipedidae, while 'diver' has a much wider >>> range of meaning that extends well beyond bird names. Even if the two rival >>> names are considered to have equal merit, the claims of 'loon' to become the >>> standard name for worldwide use are strengthened by the fact that all five >>> Gavia species breed in North America and particularly because, owing to the >>> much larger population of English-speakers in that continent, a greater >>> number of people are familiar with the name. (The idea, prevalent in some >>> quarters in the British Isles, that the name 'loon' stems from the fact that >>> the eerie, wailing cries of these birds recall the strange sounds made by >>> lunatics or 'loonies' is a misconception)." >>> >>> Mark Beaman's book contains similarly interesting and informative text on >>> many other contentious bird names, including 'skua' versus 'jaeger'. >>> >>> While I don't wish to start another debate on English bird names, >>> especially since I would not necessarily wish to defend the use of certain >>> names that appear in the second edition Bird Guide, I think we should bear >>> in mind that bird names are not always set in stone; sometimes they evolve >>> and change, according to the preference of the majority, or even (alas) the >>> whim of an individual in a position of influence. >>> >>> Ten years after 'loon' was given priority in the Collins Bird Guide, I >>> hear >>> almost* no-one here referring to the birds as anything other than >>> 'divers'. On this basis, I'd be inclined to concede that we should perhaps >>> have reverted to the more familiar name (on this side of the Atlantic) >>> 'diver', in the same way as we abandoned the misguided 'Parasitic Skua' and >>> reverted to Arctic Skua (though Beaman did make a good case for the adoption >>> of 'Parasitic'). On the other hand, if I had grown up in North America I'd >>> have probably strongly resisted any attempt to replace the rather beautiful >>> and evocative name 'loon' with such an ordinary name as 'diver'. Perhaps we >>> just need to give it a little more time?! >>> >>> In any case, I hope the odd questionable name (and the shocking number of >>> typos, especially in the book's index) do not detract too much from your >>> enjoyment of the book. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Killian >>> >>> * I would have said 'no-one' if it had not been for the gent who stopped >>> to chat to me in Galway the other day and asked "if there were any loons out >>> there?" However, I doubt that he had ever seen a copy of the Collins Bird >>> Guide... >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Richard Mills" >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:54 PM >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: That Book >>> >>> >>> >>>> A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. >>>> >>>> One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into >>>> loons? >>>> >>>> Has there been some change that I've missed? >>>> >>>> Richard. >>>> >>>> At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello boys, >>>>> On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the two >>>>> Warblers in a hurry. >>>>> I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the >>>>> Collins Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is an >>>>> amazing publication. The art and print quality are simply fantastic. >>>>> I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your >>>>> loved one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love you >>>>> even more when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK delivered for >>>>> EUR20 !!!! >>>>> >>>>> The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species >>>>> such as Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know even >>>>> less than I thought I did about birds !! >>>>> >>>>> I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >>>>> >>>>> Don't delay, buy it today. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >>>>> - Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2732 - Release Date: 03/09/10 >>>> 07:33:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ******************************************************************************** >>> This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential and >>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they >>> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify >>> the sender. >>> >>> ******************************************************************************** >>> Smurfit Kappa Group plc. Registered in Ireland No. 433527. >>> Registered office: Beech Hill, Clonskeagh, Dublin 4. >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > Subject: Re: That Book . . . and others From: Dermot McCabe <dermot.mccabe AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:30:15 +0000 Eugene, I see from the Book Depository site that people who looked at the Reed and Bush Warblers book also bought a volume on Mental Disorders. A useful combination surely? Dermot. On 10 March 2010 10:34, Eugene ARCHER wrote: > Hi All, > > On my current wish-list of books are the following: > > http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9780713645712/Birds-of-the-Western-Palearctic > > and > > http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9780713660227/Reed-and-Bush-Warblers > > Both look as if they will be essential additions to anyone's library . . . . > and check out those pre-publication prices ! > > All the best, > > Eugene > > colin.mcnamee AT PRINTPOST.IE wrote: >> >> Hi >> The new guide is nothing short of brilliant. I have not seen a field guide >> that comes close. The first edition was the benchmark for field guides but >> this raised the bar considerably. >> >> I like Eamonn, was surprised with some species - took me a while to work >> out Isabelline Warbler ( thankfully I've seen it) - but Maghreb Wheatear >> means I've to go back to Morocco again ! The atlantic islands pigeons plate >> is stunning and I must say I liked Hypocolius and some of the re-worked owls >> too. The yanks are a real improvement on the previous edition. >> >> It wouldn't take too much too expand it to all of the western palearctic - >> now there's a thought ! This was certainly worth waiting for and no doubt >> it's possible to pick a few holes in it but there is no other field guide >> that comes up to it. >> >> If you haven't got this book yet - you should. >> >> (Fiver to the usual address Killian !) >> >> Colin >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of >> Fitzharris, Jim >> Sent: 10 March 2010 10:06 >> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE >> Subject: Re: That Book >> >> >> Killian, >> >> What was your response to the gent in Galway? >> >> Something along the lines of:- >> >> "There are indeed DIVERS out there but the LOONS are on the shore looking >> at them ............" >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of >> Killian Mullarney >> Sent: 10 March 2010 00:16 >> To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE >> Subject: Re: That Book >> >> Hi Richard, >> >> You might be surprised to find, if you take a look at your old copy of the >> Collins Bird Guide, that the divers are 'loons' in there too! A few weeks >> ago I responded to a complaint about the choice of 'loon' over 'diver' in a >> thread on Birdforum, not necessarily to defend it, but to explain how it >> came about. Here is what I wrote then: >> >> As those of us who have been around for a few years will know, the subject >> of English bird names is a highly emotive matter. It was probably never more >> of an issue than back in the mid-90s when there was a lot of effort put into >> trying to achieve a standardised list of English bird names. We may question >> now what the absolute imperative for standarisation was, but back then it >> seemed, to some at least, really important. >> >> One of the most thoughtful contributions to the debate came in the form of >> a small booklet entitled Palearctic Birds: a Checklist of the birds of >> Europe, North Africa and Asia by Mark Beaman, published privately in 1994. I >> reproduce Beaman's discourse on the merits of 'loon' versus 'diver', just to >> demonstrate how consideration of the question from a broad (and particularly >> a long-term) perspective convinced us, at the time, that there was some >> merit in adopting 'loon'. >> >> "The use of 'loon' in north America and 'diver' in the Old world for >> members of the Gaviidae is a long-established dichotomy but one that must be >> addressed if a standardised world list of English bird names is to be >> achieved. Although recognising that 'diver' is dear to the hearts of >> ornithologists in the British Isles, 'loon' seems to me to have the edge. >> Although now used mainly in North America, 'loon' originated as a bird name >> in Britain and has a long history of use, dating back to at least 1634 in >> the literature (Simpson & Weiner 1989). The word derives of the Old Norse >> lómr (the primary sense of which is moan, i.e. moaning bird: see Lockwood >> 1984), by way of 'loom' and 'loone', and so has an ancient lineage. To my >> mind 'loon' has the advantage of being unique to the Gaviidae in the same >> way that 'grebe' is unique to Podicipedidae, while 'diver' has a much wider >> range of meaning that extends well beyond bird names. Even if the two rival >> names are considered to have equal merit, the claims of 'loon' to become the >> standard name for worldwide use are strengthened by the fact that all five >> Gavia species breed in North America and particularly because, owing to the >> much larger population of English-speakers in that continent, a greater >> number of people are familiar with the name. (The idea, prevalent in some >> quarters in the British Isles, that the name 'loon' stems from the fact that >> the eerie, wailing cries of these birds recall the strange sounds made by >> lunatics or 'loonies' is a misconception)." >> >> Mark Beaman's book contains similarly interesting and informative text on >> many other contentious bird names, including 'skua' versus 'jaeger'. >> >> While I don't wish to start another debate on English bird names, >> especially since I would not necessarily wish to defend the use of certain >> names that appear in the second edition Bird Guide, I think we should bear >> in mind that bird names are not always set in stone; sometimes they evolve >> and change, according to the preference of the majority, or even (alas) the >> whim of an individual in a position of influence. >> >> Ten years after 'loon' was given priority in the Collins Bird Guide, I >> hear >> almost* no-one here referring to the birds as anything other than >> 'divers'. On this basis, I'd be inclined to concede that we should perhaps >> have reverted to the more familiar name (on this side of the Atlantic) >> 'diver', in the same way as we abandoned the misguided 'Parasitic Skua' and >> reverted to Arctic Skua (though Beaman did make a good case for the adoption >> of 'Parasitic'). On the other hand, if I had grown up in North America I'd >> have probably strongly resisted any attempt to replace the rather beautiful >> and evocative name 'loon' with such an ordinary name as 'diver'. Perhaps we >> just need to give it a little more time?! >> >> In any case, I hope the odd questionable name (and the shocking number of >> typos, especially in the book's index) do not detract too much from your >> enjoyment of the book. >> >> Regards, >> >> Killian >> >> * I would have said 'no-one' if it had not been for the gent who stopped >> to chat to me in Galway the other day and asked "if there were any loons out >> there?" However, I doubt that he had ever seen a copy of the Collins Bird >> Guide... >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Richard Mills" >> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:54 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: That Book >> >> >>> >>> A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. >>> >>> One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into >>> loons? >>> >>> Has there been some change that I've missed? >>> >>> Richard. >>> >>> At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hello boys, >>>> On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the two >>>> Warblers in a hurry. >>>> I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the >>>> Collins Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is an >>>> amazing publication. The art and print quality are simply fantastic. >>>> I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your >>>> loved one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love you >>>> even more when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK delivered for >>>> EUR20 !!!! >>>> >>>> The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species >>>> such as Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know even >>>> less than I thought I did about birds !! >>>> >>>> I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >>>> >>>> Don't delay, buy it today. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >>>> - Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 >>>> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2732 - Release Date: 03/09/10 >>> 07:33:00 >>> >>> >> >> >> ******************************************************************************** >> This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential and >> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they >> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify >> the sender. >> >> ******************************************************************************** >> Smurfit Kappa Group plc. Registered in Ireland No. 433527. >> Registered office: Beech Hill, Clonskeagh, Dublin 4. >> >> >> > Subject: Ballyvaughan From: colin.mcnamee AT PRINTPOST.IE Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:34:20 -0000 Any news today/yesterday on the Pacific Diver ? Colin Subject: Re: That Book . . . and others From: Eugene ARCHER <wagtail AT FREE.FR> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:34:07 +0100 Hi All, On my current wish-list of books are the following: http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9780713645712/Birds-of-the-Western-Palearctic and http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9780713660227/Reed-and-Bush-Warblers Both look as if they will be essential additions to anyone's library . . . . and check out those pre-publication prices ! All the best, Eugene colin.mcnamee AT PRINTPOST.IE wrote: > Hi > > The new guide is nothing short of brilliant. I have not seen a field guide that comes close. The first edition was the benchmark for field guides but this raised the bar considerably. > > I like Eamonn, was surprised with some species - took me a while to work out Isabelline Warbler ( thankfully I've seen it) - but Maghreb Wheatear means I've to go back to Morocco again ! The atlantic islands pigeons plate is stunning and I must say I liked Hypocolius and some of the re-worked owls too. The yanks are a real improvement on the previous edition. > > It wouldn't take too much too expand it to all of the western palearctic - now there's a thought ! This was certainly worth waiting for and no doubt it's possible to pick a few holes in it but there is no other field guide that comes up to it. > > If you haven't got this book yet - you should. > > (Fiver to the usual address Killian !) > > Colin > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Fitzharris, Jim > Sent: 10 March 2010 10:06 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: That Book > > > Killian, > > What was your response to the gent in Galway? > > Something along the lines of:- > > "There are indeed DIVERS out there but the LOONS are on the shore looking at them ............" > > Cheers, > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Killian Mullarney > Sent: 10 March 2010 00:16 > To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE > Subject: Re: That Book > > Hi Richard, > > You might be surprised to find, if you take a look at your old copy of the Collins Bird Guide, that the divers are 'loons' in there too! A few weeks ago I responded to a complaint about the choice of 'loon' over 'diver' in a thread on Birdforum, not necessarily to defend it, but to explain how it came about. Here is what I wrote then: > > As those of us who have been around for a few years will know, the subject of English bird names is a highly emotive matter. It was probably never more of an issue than back in the mid-90s when there was a lot of effort put into trying to achieve a standardised list of English bird names. We may question now what the absolute imperative for standarisation was, but back then it seemed, to some at least, really important. > > One of the most thoughtful contributions to the debate came in the form of a small booklet entitled Palearctic Birds: a Checklist of the birds of Europe, North Africa and Asia by Mark Beaman, published privately in 1994. I reproduce Beaman's discourse on the merits of 'loon' versus 'diver', just to demonstrate how consideration of the question from a broad (and particularly a long-term) perspective convinced us, at the time, that there was some merit in adopting 'loon'. > > "The use of 'loon' in north America and 'diver' in the Old world for members of the Gaviidae is a long-established dichotomy but one that must be addressed if a standardised world list of English bird names is to be achieved. Although recognising that 'diver' is dear to the hearts of ornithologists in the British Isles, 'loon' seems to me to have the edge. > Although now used mainly in North America, 'loon' originated as a bird name in Britain and has a long history of use, dating back to at least 1634 in the literature (Simpson & Weiner 1989). The word derives of the Old Norse lómr (the primary sense of which is moan, i.e. moaning bird: see Lockwood 1984), by way of 'loom' and 'loone', and so has an ancient lineage. To my mind 'loon' has the advantage of being unique to the Gaviidae in the same way that 'grebe' is unique to Podicipedidae, while 'diver' has a much wider range of meaning that extends well beyond bird names. Even if the two rival names are considered to have equal merit, the claims of 'loon' to become the standard name for worldwide use are strengthened by the fact that all five Gavia species breed in North America and particularly because, owing to the much larger population of English-speakers in that continent, a greater number of people are familiar with the name. (The idea, prevalent in some quarters in the British Isles, that the name 'loon' stems from the fact that the eerie, wailing cries of these birds recall the strange sounds made by lunatics or 'loonies' is a misconception)." > > Mark Beaman's book contains similarly interesting and informative text on many other contentious bird names, including 'skua' versus 'jaeger'. > > While I don't wish to start another debate on English bird names, especially since I would not necessarily wish to defend the use of certain names that appear in the second edition Bird Guide, I think we should bear in mind that bird names are not always set in stone; sometimes they evolve and change, according to the preference of the majority, or even (alas) the whim of an individual in a position of influence. > > Ten years after 'loon' was given priority in the Collins Bird Guide, I hear > almost* no-one here referring to the birds as anything other than 'divers'. > On this basis, I'd be inclined to concede that we should perhaps have reverted to the more familiar name (on this side of the Atlantic) 'diver', in the same way as we abandoned the misguided 'Parasitic Skua' and reverted to Arctic Skua (though Beaman did make a good case for the adoption of 'Parasitic'). On the other hand, if I had grown up in North America I'd have probably strongly resisted any attempt to replace the rather beautiful and evocative name 'loon' with such an ordinary name as 'diver'. Perhaps we just need to give it a little more time?! > > In any case, I hope the odd questionable name (and the shocking number of typos, especially in the book's index) do not detract too much from your enjoyment of the book. > > Regards, > > Killian > > * I would have said 'no-one' if it had not been for the gent who stopped to chat to me in Galway the other day and asked "if there were any loons out there?" However, I doubt that he had ever seen a copy of the Collins Bird Guide... > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Richard Mills" > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:54 PM > To: > Subject: Re: That Book > > >> A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. >> >> One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into >> loons? >> >> Has there been some change that I've missed? >> >> Richard. >> >> At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >> >>> Hello boys, >>> On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the >>> two Warblers in a hurry. >>> I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the >>> Collins Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is >>> an amazing publication. The art and print quality are simply >>> fantastic. >>> I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your >>> loved one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love >>> you even more when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK >>> delivered for EUR20 !!!! >>> >>> The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species >>> such as Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know >>> even less than I thought I did about birds !! >>> >>> I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >>> >>> Don't delay, buy it today. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >>> - Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 >>> > > > > >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2732 - Release Date: >> 03/09/10 07:33:00 >> >> > > ******************************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the sender. > ******************************************************************************** > Smurfit Kappa Group plc. Registered in Ireland No. 433527. > Registered office: Beech Hill, Clonskeagh, Dublin 4. > > > Subject: Re: That Book From: colin.mcnamee AT PRINTPOST.IE Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:29:05 -0000 Eamonn I, like you, like me too !! C -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Eamonn Sent: 10 March 2010 10:26 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Muller, Unlike Colin I did not promote your book for personal gain. However, should one of the original plates keep getting in your way or is in danger of being eaten by one of your children I have a place for it. Yours expectantly. Bob P.S. your superb Bobolink painting looks just like the one on Cape. P.P.S. Colin, I like you too XX -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of colin.mcnamee AT PRINTPOST.IE Sent: 10 March 2010 10:20 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Hi The new guide is nothing short of brilliant. I have not seen a field guide that comes close. The first edition was the benchmark for field guides but this raised the bar considerably. I like Eamonn, was surprised with some species - took me a while to work out Isabelline Warbler ( thankfully I've seen it) - but Maghreb Wheatear means I've to go back to Morocco again ! The atlantic islands pigeons plate is stunning and I must say I liked Hypocolius and some of the re-worked owls too. The yanks are a real improvement on the previous edition. It wouldn't take too much too expand it to all of the western palearctic - now there's a thought ! This was certainly worth waiting for and no doubt it's possible to pick a few holes in it but there is no other field guide that comes up to it. If you haven't got this book yet - you should. (Fiver to the usual address Killian !) Colin -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Fitzharris, Jim Sent: 10 March 2010 10:06 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Killian, What was your response to the gent in Galway? Something along the lines of:- "There are indeed DIVERS out there but the LOONS are on the shore looking at them ............" Cheers, Jim. -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Killian Mullarney Sent: 10 March 2010 00:16 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Hi Richard, You might be surprised to find, if you take a look at your old copy of the Collins Bird Guide, that the divers are 'loons' in there too! A few weeks ago I responded to a complaint about the choice of 'loon' over 'diver' in a thread on Birdforum, not necessarily to defend it, but to explain how it came about. Here is what I wrote then: As those of us who have been around for a few years will know, the subject of English bird names is a highly emotive matter. It was probably never more of an issue than back in the mid-90s when there was a lot of effort put into trying to achieve a standardised list of English bird names. We may question now what the absolute imperative for standarisation was, but back then it seemed, to some at least, really important. One of the most thoughtful contributions to the debate came in the form of a small booklet entitled Palearctic Birds: a Checklist of the birds of Europe, North Africa and Asia by Mark Beaman, published privately in 1994. I reproduce Beaman's discourse on the merits of 'loon' versus 'diver', just to demonstrate how consideration of the question from a broad (and particularly a long-term) perspective convinced us, at the time, that there was some merit in adopting 'loon'. "The use of 'loon' in north America and 'diver' in the Old world for members of the Gaviidae is a long-established dichotomy but one that must be addressed if a standardised world list of English bird names is to be achieved. Although recognising that 'diver' is dear to the hearts of ornithologists in the British Isles, 'loon' seems to me to have the edge. Although now used mainly in North America, 'loon' originated as a bird name in Britain and has a long history of use, dating back to at least 1634 in the literature (Simpson & Weiner 1989). The word derives of the Old Norse lómr (the primary sense of which is moan, i.e. moaning bird: see Lockwood 1984), by way of 'loom' and 'loone', and so has an ancient lineage. To my mind 'loon' has the advantage of being unique to the Gaviidae in the same way that 'grebe' is unique to Podicipedidae, while 'diver' has a much wider range of meaning that extends well beyond bird names. Even if the two rival names are considered to have equal merit, the claims of 'loon' to become the standard name for worldwide use are strengthened by the fact that all five Gavia species breed in North America and particularly because, owing to the much larger population of English-speakers in that continent, a greater number of people are familiar with the name. (The idea, prevalent in some quarters in the British Isles, that the name 'loon' stems from the fact that the eerie, wailing cries of these birds recall the strange sounds made by lunatics or 'loonies' is a misconception)." Mark Beaman's book contains similarly interesting and informative text on many other contentious bird names, including 'skua' versus 'jaeger'. While I don't wish to start another debate on English bird names, especially since I would not necessarily wish to defend the use of certain names that appear in the second edition Bird Guide, I think we should bear in mind that bird names are not always set in stone; sometimes they evolve and change, according to the preference of the majority, or even (alas) the whim of an individual in a position of influence. Ten years after 'loon' was given priority in the Collins Bird Guide, I hear almost* no-one here referring to the birds as anything other than 'divers'. On this basis, I'd be inclined to concede that we should perhaps have reverted to the more familiar name (on this side of the Atlantic) 'diver', in the same way as we abandoned the misguided 'Parasitic Skua' and reverted to Arctic Skua (though Beaman did make a good case for the adoption of 'Parasitic'). On the other hand, if I had grown up in North America I'd have probably strongly resisted any attempt to replace the rather beautiful and evocative name 'loon' with such an ordinary name as 'diver'. Perhaps we just need to give it a little more time?! In any case, I hope the odd questionable name (and the shocking number of typos, especially in the book's index) do not detract too much from your enjoyment of the book. Regards, Killian * I would have said 'no-one' if it had not been for the gent who stopped to chat to me in Galway the other day and asked "if there were any loons out there?" However, I doubt that he had ever seen a copy of the Collins Bird Guide... -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Mills" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:54 PM To: Subject: Re: That Book > A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. > > One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into > loons? > > Has there been some change that I've missed? > > Richard. > > At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >>Hello boys, >>On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the >>two Warblers in a hurry. >>I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the >>Collins Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is >>an amazing publication. The art and print quality are simply >>fantastic. >>I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your >>loved one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love >>you even more when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK >>delivered for €20 !!!! >> >>The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species >>such as Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know >>even less than I thought I did about birds !! >> >>I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >> >>Don't delay, buy it today. >> >>Bob >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >>- Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2732 - Release Date: > 03/09/10 07:33:00 > ******************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. ******************************************************************************** Smurfit Kappa Group plc. Registered in Ireland No. 433527. Registered office: Beech Hill, Clonskeagh, Dublin 4. ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal ##################################################################################### Subject: Re: That Book From: Eamonn <eamonn AT COLLIERKITCHENS.IE> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:26:03 -0000 Muller, Unlike Colin I did not promote your book for personal gain. However, should one of the original plates keep getting in your way or is in danger of being eaten by one of your children I have a place for it. Yours expectantly. Bob P.S. your superb Bobolink painting looks just like the one on Cape. P.P.S. Colin, I like you too XX -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of colin.mcnamee AT PRINTPOST.IE Sent: 10 March 2010 10:20 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Hi The new guide is nothing short of brilliant. I have not seen a field guide that comes close. The first edition was the benchmark for field guides but this raised the bar considerably. I like Eamonn, was surprised with some species - took me a while to work out Isabelline Warbler ( thankfully I've seen it) - but Maghreb Wheatear means I've to go back to Morocco again ! The atlantic islands pigeons plate is stunning and I must say I liked Hypocolius and some of the re-worked owls too. The yanks are a real improvement on the previous edition. It wouldn't take too much too expand it to all of the western palearctic - now there's a thought ! This was certainly worth waiting for and no doubt it's possible to pick a few holes in it but there is no other field guide that comes up to it. If you haven't got this book yet - you should. (Fiver to the usual address Killian !) Colin -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Fitzharris, Jim Sent: 10 March 2010 10:06 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Killian, What was your response to the gent in Galway? Something along the lines of:- "There are indeed DIVERS out there but the LOONS are on the shore looking at them ............" Cheers, Jim. -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Killian Mullarney Sent: 10 March 2010 00:16 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Hi Richard, You might be surprised to find, if you take a look at your old copy of the Collins Bird Guide, that the divers are 'loons' in there too! A few weeks ago I responded to a complaint about the choice of 'loon' over 'diver' in a thread on Birdforum, not necessarily to defend it, but to explain how it came about. Here is what I wrote then: As those of us who have been around for a few years will know, the subject of English bird names is a highly emotive matter. It was probably never more of an issue than back in the mid-90s when there was a lot of effort put into trying to achieve a standardised list of English bird names. We may question now what the absolute imperative for standarisation was, but back then it seemed, to some at least, really important. One of the most thoughtful contributions to the debate came in the form of a small booklet entitled Palearctic Birds: a Checklist of the birds of Europe, North Africa and Asia by Mark Beaman, published privately in 1994. I reproduce Beaman's discourse on the merits of 'loon' versus 'diver', just to demonstrate how consideration of the question from a broad (and particularly a long-term) perspective convinced us, at the time, that there was some merit in adopting 'loon'. "The use of 'loon' in north America and 'diver' in the Old world for members of the Gaviidae is a long-established dichotomy but one that must be addressed if a standardised world list of English bird names is to be achieved. Although recognising that 'diver' is dear to the hearts of ornithologists in the British Isles, 'loon' seems to me to have the edge. Although now used mainly in North America, 'loon' originated as a bird name in Britain and has a long history of use, dating back to at least 1634 in the literature (Simpson & Weiner 1989). The word derives of the Old Norse lómr (the primary sense of which is moan, i.e. moaning bird: see Lockwood 1984), by way of 'loom' and 'loone', and so has an ancient lineage. To my mind 'loon' has the advantage of being unique to the Gaviidae in the same way that 'grebe' is unique to Podicipedidae, while 'diver' has a much wider range of meaning that extends well beyond bird names. Even if the two rival names are considered to have equal merit, the claims of 'loon' to become the standard name for worldwide use are strengthened by the fact that all five Gavia species breed in North America and particularly because, owing to the much larger population of English-speakers in that continent, a greater number of people are familiar with the name. (The idea, prevalent in some quarters in the British Isles, that the name 'loon' stems from the fact that the eerie, wailing cries of these birds recall the strange sounds made by lunatics or 'loonies' is a misconception)." Mark Beaman's book contains similarly interesting and informative text on many other contentious bird names, including 'skua' versus 'jaeger'. While I don't wish to start another debate on English bird names, especially since I would not necessarily wish to defend the use of certain names that appear in the second edition Bird Guide, I think we should bear in mind that bird names are not always set in stone; sometimes they evolve and change, according to the preference of the majority, or even (alas) the whim of an individual in a position of influence. Ten years after 'loon' was given priority in the Collins Bird Guide, I hear almost* no-one here referring to the birds as anything other than 'divers'. On this basis, I'd be inclined to concede that we should perhaps have reverted to the more familiar name (on this side of the Atlantic) 'diver', in the same way as we abandoned the misguided 'Parasitic Skua' and reverted to Arctic Skua (though Beaman did make a good case for the adoption of 'Parasitic'). On the other hand, if I had grown up in North America I'd have probably strongly resisted any attempt to replace the rather beautiful and evocative name 'loon' with such an ordinary name as 'diver'. Perhaps we just need to give it a little more time?! In any case, I hope the odd questionable name (and the shocking number of typos, especially in the book's index) do not detract too much from your enjoyment of the book. Regards, Killian * I would have said 'no-one' if it had not been for the gent who stopped to chat to me in Galway the other day and asked "if there were any loons out there?" However, I doubt that he had ever seen a copy of the Collins Bird Guide... -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Mills" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:54 PM To: Subject: Re: That Book > A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. > > One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into > loons? > > Has there been some change that I've missed? > > Richard. > > At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >>Hello boys, >>On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the >>two Warblers in a hurry. >>I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the >>Collins Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is >>an amazing publication. The art and print quality are simply >>fantastic. >>I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your >>loved one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love >>you even more when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK >>delivered for €20 !!!! >> >>The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species >>such as Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know >>even less than I thought I did about birds !! >> >>I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >> >>Don't delay, buy it today. >> >>Bob >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >>- Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2732 - Release Date: > 03/09/10 07:33:00 > ******************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. ******************************************************************************** Smurfit Kappa Group plc. Registered in Ireland No. 433527. Registered office: Beech Hill, Clonskeagh, Dublin 4. ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal ##################################################################################### Subject: Re: That Book From: colin.mcnamee AT PRINTPOST.IE Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:19:42 -0000 Hi The new guide is nothing short of brilliant. I have not seen a field guide that comes close. The first edition was the benchmark for field guides but this raised the bar considerably. I like Eamonn, was surprised with some species - took me a while to work out Isabelline Warbler ( thankfully I've seen it) - but Maghreb Wheatear means I've to go back to Morocco again ! The atlantic islands pigeons plate is stunning and I must say I liked Hypocolius and some of the re-worked owls too. The yanks are a real improvement on the previous edition. It wouldn't take too much too expand it to all of the western palearctic - now there's a thought ! This was certainly worth waiting for and no doubt it's possible to pick a few holes in it but there is no other field guide that comes up to it. If you haven't got this book yet - you should. (Fiver to the usual address Killian !) Colin -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Fitzharris, Jim Sent: 10 March 2010 10:06 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Killian, What was your response to the gent in Galway? Something along the lines of:- "There are indeed DIVERS out there but the LOONS are on the shore looking at them ............" Cheers, Jim. -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Killian Mullarney Sent: 10 March 2010 00:16 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Hi Richard, You might be surprised to find, if you take a look at your old copy of the Collins Bird Guide, that the divers are 'loons' in there too! A few weeks ago I responded to a complaint about the choice of 'loon' over 'diver' in a thread on Birdforum, not necessarily to defend it, but to explain how it came about. Here is what I wrote then: As those of us who have been around for a few years will know, the subject of English bird names is a highly emotive matter. It was probably never more of an issue than back in the mid-90s when there was a lot of effort put into trying to achieve a standardised list of English bird names. We may question now what the absolute imperative for standarisation was, but back then it seemed, to some at least, really important. One of the most thoughtful contributions to the debate came in the form of a small booklet entitled Palearctic Birds: a Checklist of the birds of Europe, North Africa and Asia by Mark Beaman, published privately in 1994. I reproduce Beaman's discourse on the merits of 'loon' versus 'diver', just to demonstrate how consideration of the question from a broad (and particularly a long-term) perspective convinced us, at the time, that there was some merit in adopting 'loon'. "The use of 'loon' in north America and 'diver' in the Old world for members of the Gaviidae is a long-established dichotomy but one that must be addressed if a standardised world list of English bird names is to be achieved. Although recognising that 'diver' is dear to the hearts of ornithologists in the British Isles, 'loon' seems to me to have the edge. Although now used mainly in North America, 'loon' originated as a bird name in Britain and has a long history of use, dating back to at least 1634 in the literature (Simpson & Weiner 1989). The word derives of the Old Norse lómr (the primary sense of which is moan, i.e. moaning bird: see Lockwood 1984), by way of 'loom' and 'loone', and so has an ancient lineage. To my mind 'loon' has the advantage of being unique to the Gaviidae in the same way that 'grebe' is unique to Podicipedidae, while 'diver' has a much wider range of meaning that extends well beyond bird names. Even if the two rival names are considered to have equal merit, the claims of 'loon' to become the standard name for worldwide use are strengthened by the fact that all five Gavia species breed in North America and particularly because, owing to the much larger population of English-speakers in that continent, a greater number of people are familiar with the name. (The idea, prevalent in some quarters in the British Isles, that the name 'loon' stems from the fact that the eerie, wailing cries of these birds recall the strange sounds made by lunatics or 'loonies' is a misconception)." Mark Beaman's book contains similarly interesting and informative text on many other contentious bird names, including 'skua' versus 'jaeger'. While I don't wish to start another debate on English bird names, especially since I would not necessarily wish to defend the use of certain names that appear in the second edition Bird Guide, I think we should bear in mind that bird names are not always set in stone; sometimes they evolve and change, according to the preference of the majority, or even (alas) the whim of an individual in a position of influence. Ten years after 'loon' was given priority in the Collins Bird Guide, I hear almost* no-one here referring to the birds as anything other than 'divers'. On this basis, I'd be inclined to concede that we should perhaps have reverted to the more familiar name (on this side of the Atlantic) 'diver', in the same way as we abandoned the misguided 'Parasitic Skua' and reverted to Arctic Skua (though Beaman did make a good case for the adoption of 'Parasitic'). On the other hand, if I had grown up in North America I'd have probably strongly resisted any attempt to replace the rather beautiful and evocative name 'loon' with such an ordinary name as 'diver'. Perhaps we just need to give it a little more time?! In any case, I hope the odd questionable name (and the shocking number of typos, especially in the book's index) do not detract too much from your enjoyment of the book. Regards, Killian * I would have said 'no-one' if it had not been for the gent who stopped to chat to me in Galway the other day and asked "if there were any loons out there?" However, I doubt that he had ever seen a copy of the Collins Bird Guide... -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Mills" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:54 PM To: Subject: Re: That Book > A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. > > One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into > loons? > > Has there been some change that I've missed? > > Richard. > > At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >>Hello boys, >>On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the >>two Warblers in a hurry. >>I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the >>Collins Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is >>an amazing publication. The art and print quality are simply >>fantastic. >>I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your >>loved one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love >>you even more when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK >>delivered for €20 !!!! >> >>The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species >>such as Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know >>even less than I thought I did about birds !! >> >>I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >> >>Don't delay, buy it today. >> >>Bob >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >>- Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2732 - Release Date: > 03/09/10 07:33:00 > ******************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. ******************************************************************************** Smurfit Kappa Group plc. Registered in Ireland No. 433527. Registered office: Beech Hill, Clonskeagh, Dublin 4. Subject: Re: The Kilcoole Rarities From: John Coveney Birds <birds AT ECOVENEY.IE> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:15:10 -0000 Joe, Thanks for that. Good to know it's being followed up. It may be that it will not be possible or perhaps even desirable to publish every detail. At the end of the day, if it can be verified that an honest mistake was made, that's all that's needed. John C -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Joseph Doolan Sent: 10 March 2010 09:44 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: The Kilcoole Rarities John/Micheal et al. I will clarify this issue during the week when I have all the facts. I made contact with Brian and it's a more complex and sensitive issue than you imagine. Regards. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mícheál Casey" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:25 AM Subject: The Kilcoole Rarities ......and so the mystery deepened, boys and girls, and nobody in the big dark forest said anything. Then one morning without any warning, the Scribe tore out all the bad stained pages out of his book of birds and burned them in his fire, and the big bright sun shone down from ON HIGH. The little French birdies sang from the fat Wicklow P&T wire, and then they fell in love and settled down in semi-detached nests just outside Bray and made little Fan-tailed Cetti babies. And that is how the myth of the Kilcoole Rarities was born. THE END On 10 Mar 2010, at 08:20, John Coveney Birds wrote: > I see that all of the entries attributed to Brian Carruthers have been > removed from www.irishbirding.com. Any chance of an update on what > happened? > > However, the following record remains on the IRBC's provisional list for > 2009. It was undoubtedly a GSW based on the photos posted and now deleted. > > Great Spotted Woodpecker Dendrocopos major 1 Adult > 23-Dec-09 23-Dec-09 Glen of the downs Wicklow B.Carruthers > ? B.Carruthers irishbirding.com > > John C Subject: Re: The Kilcoole Rarities From: Seamus Feeney <Flyfisher1 AT EIRCOM.NET> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:10:27 -0000 What a cliffhanger. Tune in next week, same Bird-time, same Bird-channel. DA-DA-DA-DA-DA-DA-DA-DA-BIRDMAN! I can hardly wait. Séamus. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Martin Styles" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:46 AM To: Subject: Re: The Kilcoole Rarities > OH! Now even I am intrigued. > > M > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:43:45 -0000, Joseph Doolan > wrote: > >> John/Micheal et al. >> >> I will clarify this issue during the week when I have all the facts. I >> made contact with Brian and it's a more complex and sensitive issue than >> you imagine. >> >> Regards. >> >> Joe >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mícheál Casey" >> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:25 AM >> Subject: The Kilcoole Rarities >> >> >> ......and so the mystery deepened, boys and girls, and nobody in the big >> dark forest said anything. Then one morning without any warning, the >> Scribe tore out all the bad stained pages out of his book of birds and >> burned them in his fire, and the big bright sun shone down from ON HIGH. >> The little French birdies sang from the fat Wicklow P&T wire, and then >> they fell in love and settled down in semi-detached nests just outside >> Bray and made little Fan-tailed Cetti babies. >> >> And that is how the myth of the Kilcoole Rarities was born. >> >> THE END >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10 Mar 2010, at 08:20, John Coveney Birds wrote: >> >>> I see that all of the entries attributed to Brian Carruthers have been >>> removed from www.irishbirding.com. Any chance of an update on what >>> happened? >>> >>> However, the following record remains on the IRBC's provisional list for >>> 2009. It was undoubtedly a GSW based on the photos posted and now >>> deleted. >>> >>> Great Spotted Woodpecker Dendrocopos major 1 Adult >>> 23-Dec-09 23-Dec-09 Glen of the downs Wicklow B.Carruthers >>> ? B.Carruthers irishbirding.com >>> >>> John C >> > > > -- > Martin Styles > Ballincollig > Cork Subject: Re: That Book From: "Fitzharris, Jim" <Jim.Fitzharris AT SMURFITKAPPA.COM> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:06:26 -0000 Killian, What was your response to the gent in Galway? Something along the lines of:- "There are indeed DIVERS out there but the LOONS are on the shore looking at them ............" Cheers, Jim. -----Original Message----- From: Irish Bird Network [mailto:IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE] On Behalf Of Killian Mullarney Sent: 10 March 2010 00:16 To: IBN-L AT LISTSERV.HEANET.IE Subject: Re: That Book Hi Richard, You might be surprised to find, if you take a look at your old copy of the Collins Bird Guide, that the divers are 'loons' in there too! A few weeks ago I responded to a complaint about the choice of 'loon' over 'diver' in a thread on Birdforum, not necessarily to defend it, but to explain how it came about. Here is what I wrote then: As those of us who have been around for a few years will know, the subject of English bird names is a highly emotive matter. It was probably never more of an issue than back in the mid-90s when there was a lot of effort put into trying to achieve a standardised list of English bird names. We may question now what the absolute imperative for standarisation was, but back then it seemed, to some at least, really important. One of the most thoughtful contributions to the debate came in the form of a small booklet entitled Palearctic Birds: a Checklist of the birds of Europe, North Africa and Asia by Mark Beaman, published privately in 1994. I reproduce Beaman's discourse on the merits of 'loon' versus 'diver', just to demonstrate how consideration of the question from a broad (and particularly a long-term) perspective convinced us, at the time, that there was some merit in adopting 'loon'. "The use of 'loon' in north America and 'diver' in the Old world for members of the Gaviidae is a long-established dichotomy but one that must be addressed if a standardised world list of English bird names is to be achieved. Although recognising that 'diver' is dear to the hearts of ornithologists in the British Isles, 'loon' seems to me to have the edge. Although now used mainly in North America, 'loon' originated as a bird name in Britain and has a long history of use, dating back to at least 1634 in the literature (Simpson & Weiner 1989). The word derives of the Old Norse lómr (the primary sense of which is moan, i.e. moaning bird: see Lockwood 1984), by way of 'loom' and 'loone', and so has an ancient lineage. To my mind 'loon' has the advantage of being unique to the Gaviidae in the same way that 'grebe' is unique to Podicipedidae, while 'diver' has a much wider range of meaning that extends well beyond bird names. Even if the two rival names are considered to have equal merit, the claims of 'loon' to become the standard name for worldwide use are strengthened by the fact that all five Gavia species breed in North America and particularly because, owing to the much larger population of English-speakers in that continent, a greater number of people are familiar with the name. (The idea, prevalent in some quarters in the British Isles, that the name 'loon' stems from the fact that the eerie, wailing cries of these birds recall the strange sounds made by lunatics or 'loonies' is a misconception)." Mark Beaman's book contains similarly interesting and informative text on many other contentious bird names, including 'skua' versus 'jaeger'. While I don't wish to start another debate on English bird names, especially since I would not necessarily wish to defend the use of certain names that appear in the second edition Bird Guide, I think we should bear in mind that bird names are not always set in stone; sometimes they evolve and change, according to the preference of the majority, or even (alas) the whim of an individual in a position of influence. Ten years after 'loon' was given priority in the Collins Bird Guide, I hear almost* no-one here referring to the birds as anything other than 'divers'. On this basis, I'd be inclined to concede that we should perhaps have reverted to the more familiar name (on this side of the Atlantic) 'diver', in the same way as we abandoned the misguided 'Parasitic Skua' and reverted to Arctic Skua (though Beaman did make a good case for the adoption of 'Parasitic'). On the other hand, if I had grown up in North America I'd have probably strongly resisted any attempt to replace the rather beautiful and evocative name 'loon' with such an ordinary name as 'diver'. Perhaps we just need to give it a little more time?! In any case, I hope the odd questionable name (and the shocking number of typos, especially in the book's index) do not detract too much from your enjoyment of the book. Regards, Killian * I would have said 'no-one' if it had not been for the gent who stopped to chat to me in Galway the other day and asked "if there were any loons out there?" However, I doubt that he had ever seen a copy of the Collins Bird Guide... -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Mills" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:54 PM To: Subject: Re: That Book > A superb book indeed. I have just had the pleasure of reviewing it. > > One thing though, why have all the divers disappeared and turned into > loons? > > Has there been some change that I've missed? > > Richard. > > At 20:56 09/03/2010, you wrote: >>Hello boys, >>On a change of subject as it appears nobody is going to explain the >>two Warblers in a hurry. >>I have just received my spanking new copy of the 2nd Edition of the >>Collins Bird Guide and it is almost beyond description. It really is >>an amazing publication. The art and print quality are simply >>fantastic. >>I would encourage anybody with a birthday coming up to suggest to your >>loved one that this is what you would like as a gift. They will love >>you even more when they see that it can be purchased on Amazon UK >>delivered for €20 !!!! >> >>The one complaint I would have is that with the inclusion of species >>such as Seebohm's, Kurdish and Maghreb Wheatears it means that I know >>even less than I thought I did about birds !! >> >>I particularly like Nile Walley Sunbird :-) >> >>Don't delay, buy it today. >> >>Bob >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2731 >>- Release Date: 03/08/10 19:33:00 > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2732 - Release Date: > 03/09/10 07:33:00 > ******************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it may be confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. 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