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4 Jul BirdNote, last week & the week of July 5 [Ellen Blackstone ] 3 Jul Banding Purple Martins ["R.D. Everhart" ] 3 Jul Birding In Oslo [Princeton Nature Tours ] 3 Jul Hawaii State Records Committee? [Tim Boucher ] 3 Jul Re: bird guide in Oslo? [Eddie Chapman ] 3 Jul bird guide in Oslo? [Chris Van Beveren ] 3 Jul Nice pix of nestling hummingbirds [David Elwonger ] 3 Jul Re: Provence and Tuscany (...and Catalonia, Spain) [Gail Mackiernan ] 2 Jul Provence and Tuscany (...and Catalonia, Spain) [Stephen Christopher ] 2 Jul Switzerland Trip Report - sort of long [Tom Arny ] 2 Jul Re: Why mob a Purple Martin? [Richard Gregson ] 2 Jul Re: Why mob a Purple Martin? [Ted Floyd ] 1 Jul Provence and Tuscany [Tim Boucher ] 1 Jul Provence and Tuscany [Rick Wright ] 30 Jun Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 [Michael Wiegand ] 30 Jun Women and birdsing (was RE: [BIRDCHAT] Song Sparrow Song Diversity) ["Barry K. MacKay" ] 30 Jun Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 [Jeff Bouton ] 29 Jun Re: Song Sparrow Song Diversity [Roger ] 29 Jun Companions wanted for South African trip [Janet Zinn ] 29 Jun Re: Song Sparrow Song Diversity ["Spector, David (Biology)" ] 29 Jun Re: Ravens 1 Hawks 0 [Terrie Milligan ] 29 Jun Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 [Jules Levin ] 29 Jun Margaret Morse Nice [John Arnfield ] 29 Jun Re: Song Sparrow Song Diversity [Steve Sosensky ] 29 Jun Re: RFI: South Africa [Tim Boucher ] 29 Jun Song Sparrow Song Diversity [Pastor Al Schirmacher ] 29 Jun Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 [james gibson ] 29 Jun Birds in the News, Snowball (dancing cockatoo) in NYC, mystery birds (links) [Devorah Bennu ] 29 Jun Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 [] 29 Jun Hawks 1, Crows 0 [Gail Mackiernan ] 28 Jun Hilton Pond 06/15/09 [Research at Hilton Pond ] 28 Jun RFI: Nepal, birds on trek to Everest Base Camp [Theo Hofmann ] 28 Jun Sian Ka'an, Mexico ["Paul R. Mocko" ] 27 Jun Re: Why mob a Purple Martin? [Kathy Andrich ] 27 Jun Re: Why mob a Purple Martin? [Marcel Gahbauer ] 27 Jun Why mob a Purple Martin? [Rick Wright ] 27 Jun Re: MUTE SWANS ["Barry K. MacKay" ] 27 Jun BirdNote, last week, and the week of June 28, 2009 [Ellen Blackstone ] 26 Jun RFI: Peru on one's own? Car and driver option? ["Levine, Barron S" ] 26 Jun GREBES GONE CUCKOO? [Ram Nambiar ] 26 Jun Re: birding in August? [Steve Sosensky ] 26 Jun MUTE SWANS [Tim Boucher ] 26 Jun Re: RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand [Morgan Churchill ] 25 Jun Re: RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand [David M Mark ] 25 Jun Re: MUTE SWANS [Ram Nambiar ] 25 Jun Re: RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand [Joyanne Hamilton ] 25 Jun Re: RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand [Tim Boucher ] 25 Jun Re: Mute Swans ["Erdman, Thomas C" ] 25 Jun Re: Mute Swans ["Barry K. MacKay" ] 25 Jun Re: Mute Swans ["McCormac, Jim" ] 25 Jun RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand [David M Mark ] 25 Jun Re: Mute Swans [Gail Mackiernan ] 25 Jun I need your help [Devorah Bennu ] 25 Jun Re: Mute Swans ["Barry K. MacKay" ] 24 Jun ADMIN: Summer vacations [Chuck & Jaye Otte ] 24 Jun Re: How to Hold Mail [Joan Czapalay ] 24 Jun Re: FYI: Contact Info for Arturo Kirkconnell & other Cuban bird guides ["Jose V. Padilla" ] 24 Jun Re: FYI: Contact Info for Arturo Kirkconnell & other Cuban bird guides [Nancy L Newfield ] 24 Jun Re: FYI: Contact Info for Arturo Kirkconnell & other Cuban bird guides [Rick ] 24 Jun Mute Swans [Gail Mackiernan ] 24 Jun Frozen Canada means bad news for breeding birds [Allison Wells ] 24 Jun Re: conditions in manitoba and ontario [darrell neufeld ] 24 Jun Re: conditions in manitoba and ontario ["Barry K. MacKay" ] 24 Jun Re: Speculation on Rare Birds [Julian Bell ] 24 Jun Minot, North Dakota: ABA conference wrap-up [Ted Floyd ] 24 Jun FYI: Contact Info for Arturo Kirkconnell & other Cuban bird guides [Blake Maybank ] 24 Jun Speculation on Rare Birds [Pastor Al Schirmacher ] 24 Jun Re: conditions in manitoba and ontario [Gail Mackiernan ] 24 Jun Re: conditions in manitoba and ontario [bill elrick ] 24 Jun Re: birding in August? [Stephen Christopher ] 23 Jun conditions in manitoba and ontario [Jim Williams ] 23 Jun Fw: [BIRDCHAT] birding in August? [Lloyd Spitalnik ] 23 Jun Re: birding in August? [Stephen Christopher ] 23 Jun Re: birding in August? [Hilary Powers ] 23 Jun Re: birding in August? [Ted Floyd ] 23 Jun RFI: South Africa [Janet Zinn ] Subject: BirdNote, last week & the week of July 5 From: Ellen Blackstone <ellen AT 123IMAGINE.NET> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:07:20 -0700 Hello, 'Chatters! Last week, BirdNote aired: * White-headed Woodpecker http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1159 * Common Nighthawk, Uncommon Sound http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=198 * Olive-sided Flycatcher http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=755 * Mahler's Cuckoo http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=757 * "Sittin' in the Catbird Seat" http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1226 * Clever Nuthatches http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1637 * Cowbird Parasitism http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=780 * Manakins Make their Own Fireworks http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=781 ------------------------------------------------------ Coming up next week: http://tinyurl.com/ltnv3j ------------------------------------------------------- Learn more about BirdNote, see photos, and sign up for the podcast or the Weekly Preview email at: http://www.birdnote.org Questions? Got an idea for BirdNote? Mail us! Ellen Blackstone http://www.birdnote.org ellen AT 123imagine DOT net BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Banding Purple Martins From: "R.D. Everhart" <everhart AT BLACK-HOLE.COM> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:47:21 -0500 Over the last 3 days Mark Newstrom and I have banded close to 200 young Purple Martins. This year marks the first year of a color banding program to track birds. I have posted photos and a video clip for anyone interested at: http://minnesotabirdnerd.blogspot.com We will be banding more martins until mid-July. If anyone sees color banded Purple Martins, please record color of band and if possible the 3 number code on the band. This info can then be reported to the Bird Banding Lab. Good Birding, Roger Everhart Apple Valley, MN www.ncbo.org BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Birding In Oslo From: Princeton Nature Tours <princetonnaturetours AT MSN.COM> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:46:25 -0400 Chris, We've birded in Norway with Eddie Chapman and he's great! Highly recommended if your friend can meet him. Tom Southerland P.S. And it's just a coincidence that my middle name is Chapman. BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Hawaii State Records Committee? From: Tim Boucher <tboucher AT GEOCITIES.COM> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:23:11 -0700 I found a 2002 checklist by Robert Pyle, published by Hawaii Audubon. I can't find a state records committee. Does anyone know if there is one? (yes, I googled before asking). Ellen Paul Chevy Chase MD BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: bird guide in Oslo? From: Eddie Chapman <echapman AT ONLINE.NO> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:36:54 +0200 Chris, Tell him to drop me an e-mail. echapman AT online.no I may be able to help. Eddie Chapman, Voss, Norway. http://www.surfbirds.com/blog/Norway/ -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] På vegne av Chris Van Beveren Sendt: 3. juli 2009 20:44 Til: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Emne: [BIRDCHAT] bird guide in Oslo? Chatters, My friend will be in Oslo in mid to late July, and is looking for a one day birding experience. He is a pretty good birder in California but doesn't know the European species. He won't be looking for difficult target species, just would like to see what birds are around Oslo and take some photos. He has not had a response from the person listed on Birding Pals, so I am reaching out to this group for some possible contacts. They don't have to be professional guides, although he would be happy to pay if they are. Any ideas? Chris Van Beveren Beck Travel 10921 Oso Ave. Chatsworth, Ca. 91311 Phone: 818-998-3122 Fax: 818-998-3588 becktravel AT yahoo.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: bird guide in Oslo? From: Chris Van Beveren <becktravel AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:44:10 -0700 Chatters, My friend will be in Oslo in mid to late July, and is looking for a one day birding experience. He is a pretty good birder in California but doesn't know the European species. He won't be looking for difficult target species, just would like to see what birds are around Oslo and take some photos. He has not had a response from the person listed on Birding Pals, so I am reaching out to this group for some possible contacts. They don't have to be professional guides, although he would be happy to pay if they are. Any ideas? Chris Van Beveren Beck Travel 10921 Oso Ave. Chatsworth, Ca. 91311 Phone: 818-998-3122 Fax: 818-998-3588 becktravel AT yahoo.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Nice pix of nestling hummingbirds From: David Elwonger <davidelwonger AT MSN.COM> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:37:06 -0600 http://community-2.webtv.net/Velpics/HUM/ Dave BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Provence and Tuscany (...and Catalonia, Spain) From: Gail Mackiernan <katahdinss AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:32:02 -0400 Hi -- I had already suggested Spain to Tim and Ellen -- it is a wonderful place to go birding -- a trip there should include (besides Catalonia), the Pyrenees and Extramadura. Heck, you could even visit the Prado in Madrid and of course, see Gaudi's La Sagada Familia (which is still being built) and his other works in Barcelona if you want to add some "culture". My favorite place to bird in Europe... Gail Mackiernan Silver Spring, MD on 07/02/2009 4:48 PM, Stephen Christopher at s.christopher AT TELEFONICA.NET wrote: > Hi Tim (and all) > > As you mentioned Spain... I've just updated my blog (although photos > are yet to follow) for May 09 in Catalonia, Spain, here: > > http://www.surfbirds.com/blog/spainbirding/ > > If you want to pick a month, just hit the "archives" link in the > right hand column. > > Incidentally, more general info on the best locations to visit in > Catalonia, etc. can be found here: > > http://www.catalanbirdtours.com/ > > All the best > Stephen Christopher > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Provence and Tuscany (...and Catalonia, Spain) From: Stephen Christopher <s.christopher AT TELEFONICA.NET> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:48:39 +0200 Hi Tim (and all) As you mentioned Spain... I've just updated my blog (although photos are yet to follow) for May 09 in Catalonia, Spain, here: http://www.surfbirds.com/blog/spainbirding/ If you want to pick a month, just hit the "archives" link in the right hand column. Incidentally, more general info on the best locations to visit in Catalonia, etc. can be found here: http://www.catalanbirdtours.com/ All the best Stephen Christopher www.catalanbirdtours.com Birding Holidays and Bird Tours in Spain www.surfbirds.com/blog/spainbirding/ Spain Birding blog, trip reports and photos !! 10% Discount !! on all shared birding short-breaks and holidays (offer ends 31 July 2009). On 2 Jul 2009, at 00:13, Tim Boucher wrote: > I have to say that in all my years on Birdchat (more than I'd care to > admit), I can't honestly remember seeing posts on Provence and > Florence! > Very few posts on Europe at all. The funny thing is that my mother > keeps > asking us if we don't want to see (fill in the blank: some European > city or > attraction - the Louvre, the Prado, etc.) and seems baffled when > every trip > is a birding trip. But you saw birds on the last trip, she says! > > Though I have to admit that I do have a secret hankering to see > Provence and > Tuscany as well as Portugal and Spain... > > Ellen Paul > Chevy Chase MD > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Switzerland Trip Report - sort of long From: Tom Arny <tarny AT THERIVER.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:16:14 -0700 Switzerland – June 2009 With brief stops in Italy, Liechtenstein, and Germany The recent postings about birding in Provence and Tuscany encouraged me to make a short post about a recent trip that my wife and I made to Switzerland and nearby. The trip was planned to look for Wallcreeper and to visit two baroque churches as well as to view the fabulous Byzantine mosaics in several churches in Ravenna, Italy. In addition, we wanted to do some walking and birding/wildflower viewing in the alps. We had originally hoped to make the trip last year, but it proved so difficult to find good birding info about Switzerland that we had to put the trip off to allow time for gathering more info. Although I had a copy of “Where to Watch Birds in Switzerland”. I found the book not very helpful unless one already had a pretty clear idea of where one wanted to go. It lacks a decent map (no labels of cities or other features on the map, for example) and it had no index of locations, so you couldn’t look up Zermatt in the index to find what might be looked for there. Web searching also failed at that time to turn up much useful, but that changed when I finally found two very helpful webpages on birdwatching near Leuk in the Rhone Valley, not too far from Zermatt. www.birdforum.net/opus/Leukerbad and www.birdforum.net/opus/Leukerfeld I also found a number of trip reports of tours to the Evolene/Arolla area very helpful. These led me to Mike Bowman, who lives in Geneva and who made many very helpful suggestions. We made all travel arrangements with SwissSafari, who provided a driver who spoke French, Gerrman, and Italian, as well as English (He knew nothing of the birds, but was very tolerant of requests to "Could we stop here? It looks good for birds, however). My own freshman level German and French got us through meals on our own. Most everyone we encountered spoke a little English and since Switzerland has four official languages, I sometimes found myself asking for drinks in broken German and main courses in rickety French. Anyhow, everyone we met was very helpful and tolerant of our poor language skills. I found birding very tough. Birds were hard to see except in gardens. Many seemed to have a “flit and sit” behavior. I’d hear the bird singing in a tree top, but it wouldn’t move about. Then it would flit to a different tree and sing again. Despite this, we managed to see or hear many of the classic European birds, such as Cuckoo (easily identifiable by its song which sounds, naturally, like a cuckoo-clock), Hoopoe, Green Woodpecker, Blue Tit, etc. A full list of our sightings is given below. SWISS BIRD LIST Great Crested Grebe Great Cormorant Grey Heron White Stork (Italy) Spoonbill (Italy) Mute Swan Graylag Goose Mallard Common Pochard Black Kite Red Kite Honey Buzzard Golden Eagle Common Kestrel Common Coot Black-headed Gull Yellow-legged Gull Common Tern Collared Dove Common Swift Alpine Swift Green Woodpecker Great Spotted Woodpecker Middle Spotted Woodpecker Kingfisher Hoopoe (Italy) Crag Martin Cuckoo Barn Swallow House Martin Tree Pipit White Wagtail Wren White-throated Dipper Dunnock Alpine Accentor Redstart Black Redstart Northern Wheatear Blackbird Song Thrush Mistle Thrush Fieldfare Ring Ouzel Reed Warbler Marsh Warbler Lesser Whitethroat Willow Tit Crested Tit Coal Tit Blue Tit Great Tit European Nuthatch Wallcreeper Eurasian Treecreeper Eurasian Jay Magpie Nutcracker Alpine Chough Carrion Crow Common Raven Common Starling House Sparrow Tree Sparrow Common Chaffinch Greenfinch Linnet Yellowhammer Snowfinch In addition to the above birds, we saw an Ibex at Nufenden pass, many Marmots on the hillsides near Arolla, and numerous lovely butterflies and wildflowers. In fact, the many alpine and roadside wildflowers (red poppies, pasqueflowers, primula, larkspur, and a variety of gentians), were a high point of the trip. Scenery was, of course, gorgeous: glaciers, snow-capped peaks, deep beech forest, etc. Weather was excellent the whole trip, apart from light sprinkles part of one day at Arolla. Ravenna was warm, but not stifling. Arolla was cool but not frigid. Below is our itinerary. June 8 – Few Tucson to Dallas, Dallas on to London June 9 – Flew London to Milan June 10 – Visited Churches in Ravenna to view Byzantine mosaics – spent a few hours at Punta Alberte a nature reserve north of Ravenna June 11 – Drove Ravenna to Zermatt via Lake Como and Nufenden pass. June 12 – Cog-rail to Gornergrat. Worked way back down mountain on foot and by the cog-rail. June 13 – Drove to Leukerbad June 14 – Spent most of day at Feschel Gorge near Leuk, looking for Wallcreeper June 15 – Put in another 2 hours at gorge, successfully this time, then drove to Arolla June 16 – Hiked trails above Arolla June 17 – Drove Lucerne to Fussen, via Lake Neuchatel and Liechtenstein. Spent a few hours at Fanel Reserve on Lake Neuchatel . Spent about an hour in AM at Jesuit Church in Lucerne. Spent an hour plus looking for birds in a reserve by Prince’s Palace in Liechtenstein. June 18 – Drove Fussen, Germany to Munich , via Farchant. Germany Birded trail to Kuhflucht Falls and made short visit to Wieskirche in mid-afternoon. June 19 – Flew from Munich back to US. Birding was done on June 10 - few hours at Punta Alberte reserve June 12 – most of day at Gornergrat and trails down. June 14 – most of day looking for Wallcreeper June 15 – few hours AM looking for Wallcreeper and few hours in Arolla June 16 – Hiking at Arolla and brief drive to look for dipper near Evolene June 17 - a few hours at Fanel Reserve and an hour at a reserve in Liechtenstein June 18 – a few hours along Kuhsflucht Falls trail Tom Arny tarny AT theriver.com Box 545, Patagonia, AZ USA 85624 BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Why mob a Purple Martin? From: Richard Gregson <sparroworks AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:02:47 -0400 The more I watch birds, the more I enjoy being with them, the more conviced I become that your average "sweet little dickie-bird" is not much more than a street thug in his/her behaviour to others. Squabbling and aggression seem to be the default setting for an awful lot of them. Richard Montreal On 7/2/09, Ted Floyd wrote: > > Hello, BirdChatters. > > > Yesterday, for example, I made an effort to pay attention and I noticed > Bushtit-on-Black-headed Grosbeak violence, American Robin-on-House Finch > violence, and Blue-gray Gnatcatcher-on-Bushtit violence--all during the > course of 1 hour of observation. Meanwhile, an aerial aggregation of dozens > of White-throated Swifts, 2 American Kestrels, 2 Red-tailed Hawks, and 1 > Peregrine Falcon was perfectly well behaved. > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Why mob a Purple Martin? From: Ted Floyd <tedfloyd57 AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:50:06 -0700 Hello, BirdChatters. Rick Wright wrote: > I've posted at http://birdaz.com/blog a couple of lackluster photos > of Purple Martins mobbed by House Finches. This is a very common > behavior here in the southwest, but I can't figure out why they would > do it: what, besides the fairly remote potential for nest site competition, > could move the finches to such enmity? Somebody out there must > know the answer! I don't know the answer. In thinking about the question, though, I realized, once again, how we birders are so adept at "thinking inside the box," if you will. Well, at least *I* do a good job of that. My first reaction was to think of an episode, several years ago, in which I was tricked into believing that a Purple Martin was a falcon. It was a bird on apparent diurnal migration, well out of range and way out of habitat, and it just looked like a little falcon powering toward the birding group I was in. Note, by the way, that "swallows (especially Purple Martin) are very similar in shape to Merlin and can easily be mistaken," according to The Sibley Guide (p. 128). My think-inside-the-box reaction to Rick's question was something along the lines of, "Well, Purple Martins can be falconlike...and mobbing is directed toward falcons and other raptors...so that must be the explanation." The problem, I think, is the assumption that mobbing (Rick's "enmity") ought to be directed against big, mean birds like falcons, hawks, crows, and the like. Yes, we're trained to think that way (well, I've trained myself to think that way), and we somehow turn a blind eye on all the other instances of interspecific aggression out there. Such instances are ubiquitous, once you start to pay attention. Yesterday, for example, I made an effort to pay attention and I noticed Bushtit-on-Black-headed Grosbeak violence, American Robin-on-House Finch violence, and Blue-gray Gnatcatcher-on-Bushtit violence--all during the course of 1 hour of observation. Meanwhile, an aerial aggregation of dozens of White-throated Swifts, 2 American Kestrels, 2 Red-tailed Hawks, and 1 Peregrine Falcon was perfectly well behaved. Here's a recent account of how two Spotted Towhees totally whaled on a poor Northern Waterthrush: http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds/browse_thread/thread/3660d822d246d80d/55ed21c7999d04c0?lnk=gst&q=tedfloyd#55ed21c7999d04c0 Because we've been conditioned to look for a particular sort of "mobbing behavior" (kingbirds chasing crows, blackbirds divebombing hawks, etc.), we're good at noticing it. Sure, that happens a lot. But I think bird-on-bird violence--for example, House Finches on Purple Martins--is a pervasive, "broadband" phenomenon. Ted Floyd tedfloyd57 AT hotmail.com Lafayette, Boulder County, Colorado ------------------------------- Ted Floyd Editor, Birding ------------------------------- Please support the American Birding Association: Click on http://www.goodsearch.com/?charityid=884482 to search the internet. Every search provides support to the ABA's programs in Education, Conservation, and Publications. Please visit the website of the American Birding Association: http://www.aba.org _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Provence and Tuscany From: Tim Boucher <tboucher AT GEOCITIES.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:13:24 -0700 I have to say that in all my years on Birdchat (more than I'd care to admit), I can't honestly remember seeing posts on Provence and Florence! Very few posts on Europe at all. The funny thing is that my mother keeps asking us if we don't want to see (fill in the blank: some European city or attraction - the Louvre, the Prado, etc.) and seems baffled when every trip is a birding trip. But you saw birds on the last trip, she says! Though I have to admit that I do have a secret hankering to see Provence and Tuscany as well as Portugal and Spain... Ellen Paul Chevy Chase MD BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Provence and Tuscany From: Rick Wright <birdaz AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:52:36 -0700 Dear All, I've got some photos and notes up at http://birdaz.com/blog from our recent birding trips to Provence and Tuscany. Formal "galleries" are also on the WINGS website at http://wingsbirds.com Best wishes, rick wright tucson BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 From: Michael Wiegand <onwingsof_pearl AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:27:19 -0600 that would be Crow-1, Falcon-0 Michael Wiegand Pearl, Idaho 208-859-3643-c 208-286-0506-h www.habiscapes.com "the truth is out there!" > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:15:20 -0700 > From: jbouton2 AT YAHOO.COM > Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Hawks 1, Crows 0 > To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > > When you spend the better part of a decade standing on hawk watch platforms spring & fall or sitting in hawk trapping blinds, and then spend 10+ hours a day staring at Peregrine Falcon eyries in summer and then work on winter population studies of varying raptors, you naturally wind up with a BUNCH of these stories... enough that I could easily babble on for weeks likely. > > At any rate, I have at least one anecdote observed from the hawk watch platform in Cape May in 1987 where the score was reversed. CROW 1, HAWK 0! > > One afternoon while viewing from the platform a Fish Crow began harrassing a Kestrel in front of the platform. The two eventually wound up grappling and both spun to the ground out in front of the platform disappearing into the tall phragmites marsh. Soon after the plummet another crow winged into the same spot. You could here the crows and the Kestrel for a short while, then just some crow noise. The Crows re-emerged after some minutes but the many eyes on the platform never saw any sign of the kestrel again! > > Best, > > Jeff Bouton > Port Charlotte, FL > jbouton2 AT earthlink.net > > > --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Gail Mackiernan wrote: > > > From: Gail Mackiernan > Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Hawks 1, Crows 0 > To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:29 AM > > > My husband and I had a similar experience with Red-tailed Hawk vs. Crow -- > we were doing the annual mid-winter gull survey at the (now, alas, defunct) > Laytonsville Landfill in Maryland. The landfill used to attract huge numbers > of gulls, but also crows (mostly American Crow), vultures and a few > Red-tailed Hawks which probably fed on the abundant rats. > > Anyway, we were driving up the dump service road past an area that had been > filled and then covered with earth. There were about 300 crows sitting > silently on the ground, spread out into a large circle. In the center of > that circle was a 15'-wide open area and in the center of that open area, a > Red-tail with its foot on a dead crow. All the crows were staring at the > hawk with a look as if to say, "Wow, I didn't know they could do THAT!" > Unfortunately we had missed the "moment of truth" so unsure how the crow met > its demise, but assumed it got too bold in harassing the hawk. > > Gail Mackiernan > Silver Spring, MD > > > on 06/27/2009 11:06 PM, Marcel Gahbauer at marcel AT MIGRATIONRESEARCH.ORG > wrote: > > > On that note, I've been meaning to mention an encounter I observed last week > > while doing some field work around Edmonton, Alberta. Two crows were > > harassing a perched Red-tailed Hawk at length - and since the hawk was > > barely flinching, I didn't watch for too long, letting myself instead get > > distracted by work :-). All of a sudden I heard a horrific scream, and > > looked over just in time to see the hawk flying away with one of the crows > > in its talons! I wish I had seen how it happened, since I've watched > > countless hundreds of such interactions, and until now the crows always > > seemed to get away unscathed. Has anyone else seen them push their luck too > > far and end up getting grabbed by their intended victim? > > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > > > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Women and birdsing (was RE: [BIRDCHAT] Song Sparrow Song Diversity) From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:04:03 -0400 Margaret Morse Nice also had her autobiography published posthumously, thanks to the efforts of a dear friend of mine, the late Doris Huestis Speirs, who took the role of editor, and was also a founder of the Margaret Morse Nice Society (I think it was called) which consisted of women interested in birding in the GTA (the Greater Toronto Area), as something of an antidote to the Toronto Ornithological Club (TOC), which in those days was "male only". Although it was before my time when I joined the TOC in the `60s, I soon heard the story of how Doris' husband, the late J. Murray Speirs (another of my mentors, he was a professor at U of T and a devoted early birder and ecologist) showed slides at the TOC, and took Doris along to run the projectors. Apparently this was a definite no-no, much tut-tutted over. It was Ludlow Griscom who opined that women simply lacked the mental ability to identify fall-plumaged warblers. Yes. When I joined the TOC in the `60s I was struck by two things: the constant fretting about the decline in its membership, and it's sexist policy. Half the population was excluded, and some of the members wanted it that way. But not all. I soon joined the executive committee and emboldened, agreed when my own mother, the late Phyllis E. MacKay, had her name put forth for membership, even though I knew there were members who didn't like that idea and that she would receive a rough ride. The rules were simple. A non-vote was seen as a yes vote, but if there were three or more write-in no votes, the person could not join. My mother had three votes against her. I know that one of the ones who so voted claimed that she lacked proper field identification skills (my mom was a pioneer in wildlife rehab work, specializing in small, avian insectivores, but was not a lister...but then neither was or am I..as an artist I certainly hold my own on visual identification, but I'm pretty bad when it comes to songs and call notes, especially now that I have lost the upper register.) The late Don Pace was president, I think, at any rate on the executive committee, and he carefully read the bylaws and discovered that, in fact, the only members eligible to vote were those within a thirty mile circle of the Royal Ontario Museum (or at least I think that was the boundary...it was the old boundary used to identify "Toronto" in terms of what birds occurred in the city, as "proved" by a specimen of identifiable photograph---I believe that at one time the Pileated Woodpecker was not an "official" Toronto species even though you could easily find them within the boundary...but there was no specimen or good photo! Seems bizarre, now, eh?) Anyway, by that voting criteria my mother was elected...the blackballers lived out side the limit that then determined who could vote. It was so traumatic that she never actually attended a monthly meeting (although maintaining her membership the rest of her life) but she had broken the gender-barrier and the TOC is now a much livelier and more interesting and active organization than I remember it to have been when I first joined (there was a long hiatus when I didn't go to meetings either, but mainly because of driving distances...we now meet closer to where I live and I attend some meetings). But back to Margaret Morse Nice; she was a true pioneer (like Alexander Skutch) in developing FIELD ornithology and was so in spite of biases let us hope are now long gone. Barry Barry Kent MacKay Markham, Ontario, Canada -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Spector, David (Biology) Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:41 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Song Sparrow Song Diversity There is a huge amount known about Song Sparrow song, much of it founded on the pioneering work of Margaret Morse Nice (1883-1974). Most of her Song Sparrow work is presented in the classic two volume monograph Studies in the Life History of the Song Sparrow. She presented a popular version in The Watcher at the Nest (illustrated by Roger Tory Peterson). She also made important contributions to the study of many other species of birds, and important contributions to areas as diverse as territoriality and the development of behavior. Her autobiography, Research is a Passion with Me, is well worth reading. Here is a bit of information on Song Sparrow song (largely drawn from the BNA account): Each adult male Song Sparrow has a repertoire of about 5 to 13 song types (and those song types are sung with some variation, resulting in a net effect of a great deal of possible variation within the the singing of any one individual). Song delivery by males of this species is typically "eventual variety," i.e., the singer sings several to many of one song type before switching to another song type. Song Sparrows use songs in complex interactions among neighboring males; a male can match a song type sung by a neighbor, sing a non-matching but shared song, or sing an unshared song. Song Sparrows can recognize neighbors as individuals by song. The degree of song sharing among neighbors varies geographically. There is both individual and geographic variation in songs. The number of introductory notes varies from 1 to about 20. Song Sparrows are capable of learning songs both in the first two months of life and later, after dispersal. The degree to which they learn songs from their hatch area and from the area where they eventually settle on a territory probably varies among regions and among individual birds. David Spector Belchertown, Massachusetts -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) on behalf of Pastor Al Schirmacher Sent: Mon 6/29/2009 1:47 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Song Sparrow Song Diversity How diverse are Song Sparrow songs? Recently I heard one sing a classic song, then end in three trilling notes; on the way back from lunch today I heard one sing two opening notes like a Vesper, then continue as normal. Do they learn from other sparrows near their territory? Do juveniles struggle with their initial songs? Is hybridization an issue? (Hard to admit I know so little about a common songster - although am comforted by Kenn Kaufman's admission a number of years back that he couldn't adequately describe a BC Chickadee to his own satisfaction.) Good birding to all! Al Schirmacher Princeton, MN Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 From: Jeff Bouton <jbouton2 AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:15:20 -0700 When you spend the better part of a decade standing on hawk watch platforms spring & fall or sitting in hawk trapping blinds, and then spend 10+ hours a day staring at Peregrine Falcon eyries in summer and then work on winter population studies of varying raptors, you naturally wind up with a BUNCH of these stories... enough that I could easily babble on for weeks likely.   At any rate, I have at least one anecdote observed from the hawk watch platform in Cape May in 1987 where the score was reversed. CROW 1, HAWK 0!   One afternoon while viewing from the platform a Fish Crow began harrassing a Kestrel in front of the platform. The two eventually wound up grappling and both spun to the ground out in front of the platform disappearing into the tall phragmites marsh. Soon after the plummet another crow winged into the same spot. You could here the crows and the Kestrel for a short while, then just some crow noise. The Crows re-emerged after some minutes but the many eyes on the platform never saw any sign of the kestrel again!   Best,   Jeff Bouton Port Charlotte, FL jbouton2 AT earthlink.net --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Gail Mackiernan wrote: From: Gail Mackiernan Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Hawks 1, Crows 0 To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:29 AM My husband and I had a similar experience with Red-tailed Hawk vs. Crow -- we were doing the annual mid-winter gull survey at the (now, alas, defunct) Laytonsville Landfill in Maryland. The landfill used to attract huge numbers of gulls, but also crows (mostly American Crow), vultures and a few Red-tailed Hawks which probably fed on the abundant rats. Anyway, we were driving up the dump service road past an area that had been filled and then covered with earth. There were about 300 crows sitting silently on the ground, spread out into a large circle. In the center of that circle was a 15'-wide open area and in the center of that open area, a Red-tail with its foot on a dead crow. All the crows were staring at the hawk with a look as if to say, "Wow, I didn't know they could do THAT!" Unfortunately we had missed the "moment of truth" so unsure how the crow met its demise, but assumed it got too bold in harassing the hawk. Gail Mackiernan Silver Spring, MD on 06/27/2009 11:06 PM, Marcel Gahbauer at marcel AT MIGRATIONRESEARCH.ORG wrote: > On that note, I've been meaning to mention an encounter I observed last week > while doing some field work around Edmonton, Alberta.  Two crows were > harassing a perched Red-tailed Hawk at length - and since the hawk was > barely flinching, I didn't watch for too long, letting myself instead get > distracted by work :-).  All of a sudden I heard a horrific scream, and > looked over just in time to see the hawk flying away with one of the crows > in its talons!  I wish I had seen how it happened, since I've watched > countless hundreds of such interactions, and until now the crows always > seemed to get away unscathed.  Has anyone else seen them push their luck too > far and end up getting grabbed by their intended victim? > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Song Sparrow Song Diversity From: Roger <r_craik AT SHAW.CA> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:58:46 -0700 Here's hoping you get lucky enough to catch one singing 'low song' during the winter. Very quiet, you almost have to be on top of them to hear it but the song is completely different as they appear to be sining to themselves. Roger Craik Maple Ridge BC Pastor Al Schirmacher wrote: > How diverse are Song Sparrow songs? > > Recently I heard one sing a classic song, then end in three trilling > notes; on the way back from lunch today I heard one sing two opening > notes like a Vesper, then continue as normal. Do they learn from > other sparrows near their territory? Do juveniles struggle with their > initial songs? Is hybridization an issue? > > (Hard to admit I know so little about a common songster - although am > comforted by Kenn Kaufman's admission a number of years back that he > couldn't adequately describe a BC Chickadee to his own satisfaction.) > > Good birding to all! > > Al Schirmacher > Princeton, MN > Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Companions wanted for South African trip From: Janet Zinn <Bkbirdr AT AOL.COM> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:03:08 EDT Looking for another couple (or two singles willing to room together) to join my husband and I in a privately organized birding safari to South Africa, probable dates of November 14-28, 2009. The trip will focus on both birds and other wildlife, especially big cats, with lots of time for photography. Comfortable, mid-range lodging and expert bird guide, more personalized than a big tour at a very reasonable cost. We expect in excess of 300 bird species and mammals galore. Late November is a fantastic time for birds (the start of the summer and breeding season) and an excellent time for mammals. Email me for more information and details: _jzinn AT jczinn.com_ (mailto:jzinn AT jczinn.com) or _bkbirdr AT aol.com_ (mailto:bkbirdr AT aol.com) Janet Zinn Brooklyn, NY _www.janetzinnphotography.com_ (http://www.janetzinnphotography.com/) **************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Song Sparrow Song Diversity From: "Spector, David (Biology)" <spectord AT MAIL.CCSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:41:26 -0400 There is a huge amount known about Song Sparrow song, much of it founded on the pioneering work of Margaret Morse Nice (1883-1974). Most of her Song Sparrow work is presented in the classic two volume monograph Studies in the Life History of the Song Sparrow. She presented a popular version in The Watcher at the Nest (illustrated by Roger Tory Peterson). She also made important contributions to the study of many other species of birds, and important contributions to areas as diverse as territoriality and the development of behavior. Her autobiography, Research is a Passion with Me, is well worth reading. Here is a bit of information on Song Sparrow song (largely drawn from the BNA account): Each adult male Song Sparrow has a repertoire of about 5 to 13 song types (and those song types are sung with some variation, resulting in a net effect of a great deal of possible variation within the the singing of any one individual). Song delivery by males of this species is typically "eventual variety," i.e., the singer sings several to many of one song type before switching to another song type. Song Sparrows use songs in complex interactions among neighboring males; a male can match a song type sung by a neighbor, sing a non-matching but shared song, or sing an unshared song. Song Sparrows can recognize neighbors as individuals by song. The degree of song sharing among neighbors varies geographically. There is both individual and geographic variation in songs. The number of introductory notes varies from 1 to about 20. Song Sparrows are capable of learning songs both in the first two months of life and later, after dispersal. The degree to which they learn songs from their hatch area and from the area where they eventually settle on a territory probably varies among regions and among individual birds. David Spector Belchertown, Massachusetts -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) on behalf of Pastor Al Schirmacher Sent: Mon 6/29/2009 1:47 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Song Sparrow Song Diversity How diverse are Song Sparrow songs? Recently I heard one sing a classic song, then end in three trilling notes; on the way back from lunch today I heard one sing two opening notes like a Vesper, then continue as normal. Do they learn from other sparrows near their territory? Do juveniles struggle with their initial songs? Is hybridization an issue? (Hard to admit I know so little about a common songster - although am comforted by Kenn Kaufman's admission a number of years back that he couldn't adequately describe a BC Chickadee to his own satisfaction.) Good birding to all! Al Schirmacher Princeton, MN Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Ravens 1 Hawks 0 From: Terrie Milligan <terrie AT STONEINTERNATIONAL.COM> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:02:19 -0700 I live in the Acton/Agua Dulce area. We have the larger raven here. A LOT of ravens. When a red tail flies over, it's moved by a hundred or so ravens and it leaves the area. Those guys do dive bomb the hawk mercilessly. I've always assumed that the ravens were protecting their nests...? Terrie Milligan Acton/Agua Dulce North LA County, CA BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 From: Jules Levin <ameliede AT EARTHLINK.NET> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:31:47 -0700 Here in Los Angeles I've seen two different crow/hawk encounters. One right over my head, looked like WW II air combat --a flock of fighter planes (crows) trying to get over the bomber (hawk), which was spiraling ever higher. The other case was more like a chase, and I only saw it for seconds as I drove under it. But if you think about it, the fun-loving crows wouldn't be playing chicken with a hawk unless there was some potential risk. The early AM street races here in LA wouldn't be exciting if occasionally there weren't a flaming crash. Also, evolutionarily, there wouldn't be so many hawks in this crow-rich town if they could be bullied by crows with impunity. Crow smarts: Once, while waiting in my car in a parking lot, a fellow walking by crumpled a small snack bag and let it fall to the pavement. Within seconds, and unseen by me sitting 3 or 4 feet away in my car, a crow landed and strolled up to the bag, bent down, and peeked into it. Satisfied it was empty, it flew away. I wondered if it was following that bag while it was still in the guy's hand. Jules Levin Los Angeles BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Margaret Morse Nice From: John Arnfield <arnfield.2 AT OSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:11:46 +0100 At 09:02 PM 29/06/2009, you wrote: >Check out a book called "A World of Watchers". It is a fascinating >history of birdwatching in the US. Each chapter is about a different >person who advanced the practice of birding. One chapter is about a >woman in Ohio who studied the Song Sparrows on her family land. She >got so she could identify individuals by voice and plot their >nesting territories from year to year. That woman is Margaret Morse Nice - for more see: http://www.columbusaudubon.org/production/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=66 The Song Sparrow is included in the logo of Columbus Audubon to this day because of her contributions to our knowledge of this species. JA ======================================================= John Arnfield | Shropshire, UK | ======================================================= BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Song Sparrow Song Diversity From: Steve Sosensky <Steve AT SOSENSKY.COM> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:02:04 -0700 Hi Al, Check out a book called "A World of Watchers". It is a fascinating history of birdwatching in the US. Each chapter is about a different person who advanced the practice of birding. One chapter is about a woman in Ohio who studied the Song Sparrows on her family land. She got so she could identify individuals by voice and plot their nesting territories from year to year. At 10:47 AM 2009-06-29, Pastor Al Schirmacher wrote: >How diverse are Song Sparrow songs? > >Recently I heard one sing a classic song, then end in three trilling >notes; on the way back from lunch today I heard one sing two opening >notes like a Vesper, then continue as normal. Do they learn from >other sparrows near their territory? Do juveniles struggle with >their initial songs? Is hybridization an issue? Good birding, Steve Sosensky, SoCA Bird Guides www.sosensky.com/guides Nature Photos www.sosensky.com/nature_photos.htm Optics4Birding www.optics4birding.com Aliso Viejo, CA 92656 949-269-2161 33.56485 N, 117.72205 W BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: RFI: South Africa From: Tim Boucher <tboucher AT GEOCITIES.COM> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:08:13 -0700 Janet If you are feeling a somewhat adventurous and want to strike out on your own a little, there are some great "birding routes" that you can follow. You can see them on the SA Birdlife site here: http://www.birdlife.org.za/page/5312/birding_routes. They include the Western Cape and Kruger area. Getting around SA is really easy, english is spoken everywhere, and most roads are well sign posted. The only thing to remember - you drive on the other side of the road! Cheers Tim Boucher Chevy Chase, MD BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Song Sparrow Song Diversity From: Pastor Al Schirmacher <pastoral AT PRINCETONFREECHURCH.NET> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:47:11 -0500 How diverse are Song Sparrow songs? Recently I heard one sing a classic song, then end in three trilling notes; on the way back from lunch today I heard one sing two opening notes like a Vesper, then continue as normal. Do they learn from other sparrows near their territory? Do juveniles struggle with their initial songs? Is hybridization an issue? (Hard to admit I know so little about a common songster - although am comforted by Kenn Kaufman's admission a number of years back that he couldn't adequately describe a BC Chickadee to his own satisfaction.) Good birding to all! Al Schirmacher Princeton, MN Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 From: james gibson <jgibson38 AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:07:21 -0700 Several years ago I was floating on Puget Sound near Friday Harbor.  I saw an osprey being seriously chased by a bald eagle.  I didn't see how the whole thing started but the osprey just barely escaped before  the eagle turned and flew away.  I always think of smaller birds harrassing larger ones but, as I said, I don't know if this event started that way or not.   Jim Gibson Chadron NE   --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Jbird558 AT AOL.COM wrote: From: Jbird558 AT AOL.COM Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Hawks 1, Crows 0 To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:33 AM Hello Chatters, Have been reading of these encounters with great interest, as I've seen Crows bombing Red-tails many times. We have nesting Peregrines in downtown Harrisburg. In late April, a day or two before the eggs hatched, a Crow made the mistake of getting on the nest ledge. The adult male falcon took care of the Crow very quickly. A gal who has an office right inside from where the nest ledge is heard the commotion, and was able to look out through a little opening onto the ledge and witness the Crow's demise about a foot away from her. Jane Barnette Harrisburg, PA **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Birds in the News, Snowball (dancing cockatoo) in NYC, mystery birds (links) From: Devorah Bennu <birdologist AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:05:43 -0700 hello everyone, this week's edition of Birds in the News is now available. This issue features an image of the critically endangered Seychelles Paradise-flycatcher, Terpsiphone corvina, sitting on her nest; http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2009/06/birds_in_the_news_177.php Snowball, the dancing cockatoo, visited NYC's World Science Festival last weekend, and here's some charming video of him teaching the audience how to dance; http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2009/06/bird_boogie.php this video of Antarctica is mostly footage of animals; penguins, gulls, seals and breaching humpback whales; http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2009/06/antarctica_in_five_minutes.php today's mystery bird was photographed at Cannon Beach, Oregon; http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2009/06/todays_mystery_bird_for_you_to_303.php You also might be interested to notice that an avian DNA sexing lab is advertising with ScienceBlogs (check the banner at the top of the page, or reload the page if the banner is showing a different advertiser). I think this is wonderful! cheers, GrrlScientist Devorah http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/ http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist Vote to make me official Antarctica blogger: http://www.blogyourwaytoantarctica.com/blogs/view/152 Roosting high up a tree somewhere in Central Park, NYC BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Hawks 1, Crows 0 From: Jbird558 AT AOL.COM Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:33:56 EDT Hello Chatters, Have been reading of these encounters with great interest, as I've seen Crows bombing Red-tails many times. We have nesting Peregrines in downtown Harrisburg. In late April, a day or two before the eggs hatched, a Crow made the mistake of getting on the nest ledge. The adult male falcon took care of the Crow very quickly. A gal who has an office right inside from where the nest ledge is heard the commotion, and was able to look out through a little opening onto the ledge and witness the Crow's demise about a foot away from her. Jane Barnette Harrisburg, PA **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Hawks 1, Crows 0 From: Gail Mackiernan <katahdinss AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:29:02 -0400 My husband and I had a similar experience with Red-tailed Hawk vs. Crow -- we were doing the annual mid-winter gull survey at the (now, alas, defunct) Laytonsville Landfill in Maryland. The landfill used to attract huge numbers of gulls, but also crows (mostly American Crow), vultures and a few Red-tailed Hawks which probably fed on the abundant rats. Anyway, we were driving up the dump service road past an area that had been filled and then covered with earth. There were about 300 crows sitting silently on the ground, spread out into a large circle. In the center of that circle was a 15'-wide open area and in the center of that open area, a Red-tail with its foot on a dead crow. All the crows were staring at the hawk with a look as if to say, "Wow, I didn't know they could do THAT!" Unfortunately we had missed the "moment of truth" so unsure how the crow met its demise, but assumed it got too bold in harassing the hawk. Gail Mackiernan Silver Spring, MD on 06/27/2009 11:06 PM, Marcel Gahbauer at marcel AT MIGRATIONRESEARCH.ORG wrote: > On that note, I've been meaning to mention an encounter I observed last week > while doing some field work around Edmonton, Alberta. Two crows were > harassing a perched Red-tailed Hawk at length - and since the hawk was > barely flinching, I didn't watch for too long, letting myself instead get > distracted by work :-). All of a sudden I heard a horrific scream, and > looked over just in time to see the hawk flying away with one of the crows > in its talons! I wish I had seen how it happened, since I've watched > countless hundreds of such interactions, and until now the crows always > seemed to get away unscathed. Has anyone else seen them push their luck too > far and end up getting grabbed by their intended victim? > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Hilton Pond 06/15/09 From: Research at Hilton Pond <research AT HILTONPOND.ORG> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:45:47 -0400 What better way might there be to spend the longest day of the year than exploring woods and meadows of the Carolina Piedmont, taking snapshots of flora and fauna? That's what we did for the recent Summer Solstice, and we're pleased to share some images in the current installment of "This Week at Hilton Pond." To view our photo essay for 15-21 June 2009--complete with info about midsummer wildflowers, fungi, amphibians, birds, and pollinators, too--visit http://www.hiltonpond.org/ThisWeek090615.html . After reading the essay, be sure to scroll down for a list of all birds banded or recaptured during the period, plus some info about the new EarthTrek citizen science initiative that involves hummingbirds. Please also note the special $75 discount for our 2010 hummingbird expeditions to Costa Rica expires on 1 July, so sign up now to take advantage of this offer. Happy Nature Watching! BILL -- RESEARCH PROGRAM c/o BILL HILTON JR. Executive Director Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History 1432 DeVinney Road, York, South Carolina 29745 USA research AT hiltonpond.org, (803) 684-5852, eFax: (503) 218-0845 Please visit our web sites (courtesy of Comporium.net): Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History at http://www.hiltonpond.org "Operation RubyThroat: The Hummingbird Project" at http://www.rubythroat.org ********** BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: RFI: Nepal, birds on trek to Everest Base Camp From: Theo Hofmann <theo AT HERA.MED.UTORONTO.CA> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:14:04 -0400 Dear Chatters, Has anyone got any information primarily on the birds that one might encounter on a trek from Lukla to the Everest Base Camp, as well as birds in the Kathmandu valley. Time of year: October. This is for two friends of mine who are trekking to the base camp as a fund-raiser for "Save the Children (Canada)". We have the information on books of the Birds of Nepal, but it would be helpful to have information somewhat restricted to the areas where my friends are going. Any help would be most gratefully accepted Theo -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Theo Hofmann e-mail: theo AT hera.med.utoronto.ca 199 Arnold Avenue Thornhill Ontario Phone: 905 889-1554 Canada L4J 1C1 Fax: 416 978-8548 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Sian Ka'an, Mexico From: "Paul R. Mocko" <whimbrel88 AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:49:39 -0700 Chatters,   If anyone has birded the Sian Ka'an biosphere reserve in Mexico with Sian Kaan Community Tours I would like to hear from you.  http://www.siankaantours.org/    Thanks for the feedback, either directly or to the listserve.   Paul Mocko McLean, Virginia BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Why mob a Purple Martin? From: Kathy Andrich <chukarbird AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:53:09 -0700 I haven't noticed this before but I do know some birds need to be careful around Purple Martins. I think it was gourd/nest competition when I saw a Purple Martin repeatedly drive a Tree Swallow into Juanita Bay on Lake Washington. The Martin did not quit until the swallow was completely soaked and basically helpless, even though the swallow rowed itself around for quite awhile afterwards it kept getting weaker and weaker and I couldn't watch anymore. Kathy Roosting in Kent, WA, near Lake Meridian (chukarbird at yahoo dot com) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Why mob a Purple Martin? From: Marcel Gahbauer <marcel AT MIGRATIONRESEARCH.ORG> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:06:15 -0600 > Somebody out there must know the answer! Probably true, but I'm afraid I'm not that 'somebody' in this case. However, in a similar vein the mobbing of hawks by crows seems out of proportion (in both frequency and intensity) to the threat the hawks pose. On that note, I've been meaning to mention an encounter I observed last week while doing some field work around Edmonton, Alberta. Two crows were harassing a perched Red-tailed Hawk at length - and since the hawk was barely flinching, I didn't watch for too long, letting myself instead get distracted by work :-). All of a sudden I heard a horrific scream, and looked over just in time to see the hawk flying away with one of the crows in its talons! I wish I had seen how it happened, since I've watched countless hundreds of such interactions, and until now the crows always seemed to get away unscathed. Has anyone else seen them push their luck too far and end up getting grabbed by their intended victim? Marcel Gahbauer Calgary AB / Montreal QC marcel AT migrationresearch.org BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Why mob a Purple Martin? From: Rick Wright <birdaz AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:56:45 -0700 I've posted at http://birdaz.com/blog a couple of lackluster photos of Purple Martins mobbed by House Finches. This is a very common behavior here in the southwest, but I can't figure out why they would do it: what, besides the fairly remote potential for nest site competition, could move the finches to such enmity? Somebody out there must know the answer! -- Rick Wright Managing Director, WINGS http://wingsbirds.com http://birdaz.com, http://birdaz.com/blog BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: MUTE SWANS From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:04:08 -0400 Yeah...I agree with Ellen on this with one small caveat. In northern Ontario there was a community that was very pleased with egg-oiling results, applied to Canada Geese, which are also a long-lived species. It is also another of the species targeted by wildlife managers (as I've indicated, the "alien" card will be played if it can be, otherwise other rationales are put forth), although more benignly in Canada than in the U.S. Except for two examples in B.C. and one experimental effort in Toronto many years ago, there has been no lethal culling of the species in Canada And there seems to be a greater tolerance for them...they're all over Markham, where I live, but folks seem to accept them. There are also new developments in oral avian contraceptives, most notably by OvoControl, a U.S. based firm that has received permission to use the product on geese and Rock Pigeons in some jurisdictions. Presumably it would work for Mute Swans (not that I advocate it, nor do I for Canada Geese except for as a lesser choice where emotions rule out more effective measures or dictate cruel practices, but I think it can be an excellent product for Rock Pigeons). Erik Wolf, the developer of the product, has data showing its essential long term harmlessness (it has to be applied each year), and harmlessness to non-target species who ingest it, although the obvious challenge is to develop species-specific feeding protocols (there has been progress in this for Canada Geese, btw). My reluctance is that it feeds into arguments that are often quite specious that there is a "need" to reduce various species (the list is huge...pretty well anything that (a) is common, and (b) is noticed) and a stop-gap solution seen to be easier than some other methodologies that are ultimately far more effective, thus cost effective (such as habitat modification). BTW, I HAVE encountered many wild animals. I have wrestled with a fully adult and very vigorous Mute Swan, and while I survived that only bruised but intact, I have been wounded by a Red-tailed Hawk (long story, but the talon punctured my hand), scarred every which way by cormorants and of course had my share of grosbeak and cardinal bites, although they pale to mere inconvenience compared to the effect a parrot's bite can have on your anatomy. One of the worst wounds I've ever suffered from a bird came from a Great Blue Heron...I was given a box without being told what was inside, and its beak punctured my upper lip. One of my "hardest to explain" injuries was a bite on the hand by a species that is usually pretty gentle: a Turkey Vulture. I got a tetanus shot for that one, and it was a bit tricky to explain to the staff in the emergency room how I showed up with a vulture bite, although once I explained what vultures eat, they sure understood the need for the shot. BTW, I think this whole thread started with a report about the cold weather in Northern Manitoba preventing nesting for many birds. An article about this was written by an old friend of mine, Bob Alison, and got wide play. Ironically Bob, a waterfowl biologist, has been working to try to protect the Chesapeake Bay Mute Swans. But there is another irony. In the paper where I saw his article (The Toronto Star) there was a section for comments on line, and some folks used the story to ridicule concerns about global warming (and to attack Mr. Al Gore for trying to alert people to the cause). This is the sort of "cherry-picking" of data to support a bias that bothers me and which I honestly try to avoid. One thing that was ignored by these people, for example, was that the temperature in part of India has reached 49 degrees...that's 120.2 degrees Fahrenheit. I suspect the birds aren't breeding there, either, but because it is too hot...indeed, too hot for many to survive at all...and that includes the more than two dozen people who have died form the heat. I doubt that they are gauging against concerns about climate warming, eh? My theory about the Mute Swans is that they are a convenient scapegoat for a whole suite of problems that have been identified (without mention of swans, BTW) in reports on the degradation of Cheseapeake Bay. If, as I have said, the introduction of breeding Trumpeter Swans was not in the works, I think the argument against the Mutes would at least not be hypocritical, but I can foresee a few decades hence that instead of a few hundred Mute Swans (in a vast area) it will be a similar number of Trumpeters that will be "over" populated, since they tend not to migrate when introduced. Neither will "wipe out" aquatic vegetation, since they would die-off long before that happens. When I visit my own local waterfront, I see parents with small children feeding the Mutes, the Trumpeters (they tend to hang around and beg just like Mutes), the Canada Geese, Mallards, Rock Pigeons and so on, and yet to read some of the rhetoric, you'd think they were all at deadly risk of disease and/or injury. Teaching a child not to disturb a protective parent swan or goose apparently not being an option. (And yet in countless hours of observation I've yet to see a kid who didn't recognize the warning hiss for what it is and back off, and I have yet to see a serious confrontation). Barry Barry Kent MacKay Markham, Ontario, Canada -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tim Boucher Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:52 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDCHAT] MUTE SWANS In Maryland, DNR has and continues to use several techniques. Egg oiling (also used to control cormorant populations) can be difficult. It can be hard to find nests and well, I love it when people who have never encountered an large animal defending young start opining that the eggs should be addled or oiled. In an editorial published in the Washington Post, TV host Montel Williams - whose sole connection to/knowledge of the issue was that he went to Annapolis and thus has seen the Chesapeake Bay - voiced this opinion. In addition, egg oiling and addling are a drain on the extremely limited resources of Maryland DNR, diverting attention from other natural resource activities. Remember that swans are long-lived and have a long reproductive life, so if you tried to maintain a population of 500, and missed even a few nests each year, the population would actually grow, albeit more slowly than an uncontrolled population. As the majority report from the Mute Swan Task Force to the Maryland Secretary of Natural Resources explains, since oiling/addling actually just slows the growth of the population, ultimately there will be more adult swans to kill and more nests to find and more eggs to oil/addle. Ellen Paul Chevy Chase MD In closing, I would just like to say: Nutria. Zebra mussels. Northern Snakeheads. The only difference between these species and Mute Swans is....? BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: BirdNote, last week, and the week of June 28, 2009 From: Ellen Blackstone <ellen AT 123IMAGINE.NET> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:18:51 -0700 Hello, BirdChatters! Last week, BirdNote aired (shows varied by station): * Father Birds http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1160 * Peregrines Take Wing http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1161 * Detroit River International Wildlife Refuge http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1624 * Begging Sounds and Postures http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=823 * Hearing Loss and Birds http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1625 * Responsible Birdfeeding http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=388 * Whose Song - Bewick's Wren or Song Sparrow http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=1289 * Band-tailed Pigeon http://www.birdnote.org/birdnote.cfm?id=197 -------------------------------------------- Check out the photos accompanying next week's shows: http://tinyurl.com/n4lw6x ------------------------------------------------------------------------- BirdNote is a two-minute audio program, airing on several public radio stations and available by podcast: http://tinyurl.com/y24e8n. You can listen to the mp3 and read the transcript on the website. All episodes are in the archives. Shows may vary by station. Comments? Send them my way, please. mailto:ellen AT 123imagine.net Ellen Blackstone http://www.birdnote.org Seattle, Washington BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: RFI: Peru on one's own? Car and driver option? From: "Levine, Barron S" <LevineB AT BSD405.ORG> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:24:50 -0700 Chatters; I'm contemplating taking a journey to Peru in July and was wondering if there is anyone out there who has tried this on their own? I'm also looking at a car and driver as a possibility. Has anyone tried that, and if so how did it work out? Finally, does anyone know of an up and coming guide who might be willing to go out into the field? I'm hopeful that I can avoid the large group setting. Thanks Barry Levine Seattle, Washington Levineb AT bsd405.org BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: GREBES GONE CUCKOO? From: Ram Nambiar <ramnambiar AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:14:49 -0400 Hello Chatters, A large lagoon extending into Lake Ontario at the foot of Colnel Samuel Park in Toronto. Close to the shore of the lagoon, may be 100' away, a pair of Red-necked Grebes had built a floating nest in early-May. Prior to it, April 15th to be exact, I had watched their exciting and pumped up mutual coutshipdance accompanied by peculiar loud vocalization. I have never been able to get this close up pictures of their display. So far so good. More than two months now, I visited the location this week. I couldn't believe. That pair of grebe still there, -sitting the partner just around the nest in the water. Many photographers with huge lens with tripod sitting along the shore. They told me that there are no eggs in the nest and this devoted pair, for some strange reasons, wouldn't want to leave the area. Now I see one or at times both leaving for a quick dive and meal but simply returning within a few minutes, one of them getting back to sit. I don't know if Barry, a Toronto East ender, and other birders here are aware of this. Did some gulls eat their eggs way back? Or is it a common affair among, perhaps immature, Red-necked pairs. From their courtship activities in April though, I was convinced they are true breeding adults Great Birding Ram Ram Nambiar. 351 Alexander Crescent Milton. Ontario. Canada Ram nambiar www3.sympatico.ca/ramkamla/ BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: birding in August? From: Steve Sosensky <Steve AT SOSENSKY.COM> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:01:11 -0700 Hillary, I think you're being a bit too parochial. I'm sure if you go to the mudflats along the bay near the Berkeley Marina in August you will have a wealth of shorebirds. As with any time of the year, you have to select your target habitat based on when birds are using it. At 11:46 AM 2009-06-23, Hilary Powers wrote: >But not at Lake Merritt in Oakland, California - a bird sanctuary >for the last century or so and my favorite stomping grounds. In >August, it can offer Canada Geese, and Mallards, and more Canada >Geese - though not quite so many as in July, as a lot of the geese >that came in on molt migration have departed. Good birding, Steve Sosensky, SoCA Bird Guides www.sosensky.com/guides Nature Photos www.sosensky.com/nature_photos.htm Optics4Birding www.optics4birding.com Aliso Viejo, CA 92656 949-269-2161 33.56485 N, 117.72205 W BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: MUTE SWANS From: Tim Boucher <tboucher AT GEOCITIES.COM> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:52:11 -0700 In Maryland, DNR has and continues to use several techniques. Egg oiling (also used to control cormorant populations) can be difficult. It can be hard to find nests and well, I love it when people who have never encountered an large animal defending young start opining that the eggs should be addled or oiled. In an editorial published in the Washington Post, TV host Montel Williams - whose sole connection to/knowledge of the issue was that he went to Annapolis and thus has seen the Chesapeake Bay - voiced this opinion. In addition, egg oiling and addling are a drain on the extremely limited resources of Maryland DNR, diverting attention from other natural resource activities. Remember that swans are long-lived and have a long reproductive life, so if you tried to maintain a population of 500, and missed even a few nests each year, the population would actually grow, albeit more slowly than an uncontrolled population. As the majority report from the Mute Swan Task Force to the Maryland Secretary of Natural Resources explains, since oiling/addling actually just slows the growth of the population, ultimately there will be more adult swans to kill and more nests to find and more eggs to oil/addle. Ellen Paul Chevy Chase MD In closing, I would just like to say: Nutria. Zebra mussels. Northern Snakeheads. The only difference between these species and Mute Swans is....? BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand From: Morgan Churchill <mmcjawa AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:13:29 -0700 My own two cents: Personally, I think we should be making distinctions between conservation oriented reintroductions, and non-native introductions. As human populations increase, there are only going to be more and more populations that exist as "managed". A good example is the Kirtland's Warbler...Odds are the species will always need active management in the form of controlled burning and cowbird control. To me, this really is no different from reintroducing birds and counting their offspring. They are both examples of active management, it's just in one case the birds had to be brought into captivity for awhile. Obviously I wouldn't count zoo birds, or escapees, but it seems like in cases where birds have been purposely introduced to an area once native, survived for awhile, and are breeding with no sign of future extirpation, it should be fair to count them. As for Tiri Matingi, I think there are a mix of birds there that are countable under ABA rules, and not countable. I recall seeing a list on an official site for the island showing reintroduction dates of different species, and what species naturally occur or have recolonized. You could probably base their countability on that. ********************************** Morgan Churchill Masters candidate Department of Biology San Diego State University San Diego, CA 92115 --- On Thu, 6/25/09, David M Mark wrote: > From: David M Mark > Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand > To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 7:23 PM > Hello Ellen: > > Thanks for the comments on Tiritiri Matangi Island birds. > > You are absolutely right, my list is "my list" and I can > could birds in zoos or on television if I want. But the ABA > rules apply DO APPLY to the world lists of ABA members who > report their list totals to the ABA. For a list to be ABA > compliant, for areas outside the Americas it has to follow > Clements for taxonomy. And rather than maintain various > versions for various lists, my personal lists now conforms > to ABA rules, even ABA rules that I disagree with. > > Under ABA rules, I don't think history matters, i.e., I > think that re-introduced birds are under the same criteria > as birds introduced where they never occured before. So, for > example, in my opinion, the "countability" of Trumpeter > Swans in the northeast is the same, whether they occurred > here before, Columbus or not. > > So, I think that if a species was extirpated from Tiritiri > Matangi Island, then that species would need to be solidly > established there (again) to be "countable" under rules. So, > I'd like to know how well established the birds are on > Tiritiri Matangi Island, and for how long. > > Thanks! > David > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > David M. Mark > Amherst, New York (near Buffalo; home location) > dmark AT buffalo.edu > http://www.geog.buffalo.edu/~dmark/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Tim Boucher wrote: > > > Actually most of the species were RE-introduced. The > island vegetation was > > restored - mostly by volunteers! - and bird species > that had been there were > > brought back. > > > > We did have a "discussion" about the Takahe, which at > this time exist in the > > wild only at high altitude on South Island. > Apparently, there is fossil > > evidence that they also existed on North Island, and > at lower altitudes. > > Given that Greg and Cheesecake and their young 'uns > are running around in > > the tea garden, pinching tourists' lunches, it is hard > to think of them as > > being truly wild. It is a whole lot more like a zoo > without fences. Though > > actually, lots of the truly wild birds in NZ - > especially on Ulva Island - > > are so unafraid of humans that they will sit right by > you or approach you. > > > > > > So bottom line is: your list, your rules. Plus what do > ABA rules have to do > > with non-ABA area lists? > > > > Ellen Paul > > Chevy Chase MD > > > > > > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand From: David M Mark <dmark AT BUFFALO.EDU> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:23:11 -0400 Hello Ellen: Thanks for the comments on Tiritiri Matangi Island birds. You are absolutely right, my list is "my list" and I can could birds in zoos or on television if I want. But the ABA rules apply DO APPLY to the world lists of ABA members who report their list totals to the ABA. For a list to be ABA compliant, for areas outside the Americas it has to follow Clements for taxonomy. And rather than maintain various versions for various lists, my personal lists now conforms to ABA rules, even ABA rules that I disagree with. Under ABA rules, I don't think history matters, i.e., I think that re-introduced birds are under the same criteria as birds introduced where they never occured before. So, for example, in my opinion, the "countability" of Trumpeter Swans in the northeast is the same, whether they occurred here before, Columbus or not. So, I think that if a species was extirpated from Tiritiri Matangi Island, then that species would need to be solidly established there (again) to be "countable" under rules. So, I'd like to know how well established the birds are on Tiritiri Matangi Island, and for how long. Thanks! David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David M. Mark Amherst, New York (near Buffalo; home location) dmark AT buffalo.edu http://www.geog.buffalo.edu/~dmark/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Tim Boucher wrote: > Actually most of the species were RE-introduced. The island vegetation was > restored - mostly by volunteers! - and bird species that had been there were > brought back. > > We did have a "discussion" about the Takahe, which at this time exist in the > wild only at high altitude on South Island. Apparently, there is fossil > evidence that they also existed on North Island, and at lower altitudes. > Given that Greg and Cheesecake and their young 'uns are running around in > the tea garden, pinching tourists' lunches, it is hard to think of them as > being truly wild. It is a whole lot more like a zoo without fences. Though > actually, lots of the truly wild birds in NZ - especially on Ulva Island - > are so unafraid of humans that they will sit right by you or approach you. > > > So bottom line is: your list, your rules. Plus what do ABA rules have to do > with non-ABA area lists? > > Ellen Paul > Chevy Chase MD > > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: MUTE SWANS From: Ram Nambiar <ramnambiar AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:00:24 -0400 Chatters, After reading Gail's Mutes, I was thinking. In Toronto waterways the Mutes are no longer breeding out of controls. Their eggs are being sprayed. It is towards the end of June.A pen is still sitting on the mount at Mimico creek marsh perhaps with the hope her close to a dozen eggs will someday hatch.This seems to be an effective measure against. Good Birding Ram Nambiar 351 Alexander Crescent Milton. Ont Canada L9T6K7 Ram nambiar www3.sympatico.ca/ramkamla/ BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand From: Joyanne Hamilton <innoko_bird AT MAC.COM> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:39:50 -0800 On the topic of "reintroduction".............. Sorry, going to respond with an unbirdlike comment here....... Interesting to follow this thread. I save things like this for my students. I love it! Not bird related but also following the whole "re-introduced" vein, Bison in Alaska have been big in the news here for about 5- years now. Well, actually, they have at least two "transplanted" herds; one near Flat, an old gold-mining town, and one in Delta, on the highway system south-east of Fairbanks. They've both been around at least 35- years. Recently, Fish and Wildlife biologists have been pushing for, what they are calling, a "reintroduction" of bison to certain areas of Alaska. They are able to make this claim based on (correct me if I'm wrong) oral stories of people who's ancestors actually hunted bison in the Yukon Flats area, and archeological evidence. Many, many times the biologists mentioned that "there were bison here before" and claim they are not invasive. Proposed herds are designated to be brought in to the Yukon Flats area and into our area, the Innoko drainage area. Several years ago some wildlife biologists and others came in to discuss the plan, gather public opinion and "sell" the idea to people in our 4-village area (Shageluk, Holy Cross, Anvik and Grayling). The biologists were providing data, current trends based on the existing 2-herds and speculation about the "positive" outcomes. They would leave the herd for several years to build up stock, monitor the herd for disease, etc. and then do some kind of draw or lottery hunt based on herd size. Well, sitting in the meeting with my students, I figured "this all sound too good to be true" and (no offense to any biologists out there), I DO know that if you believe passionately enough in something, and you really want to see it work, you're going to sell that idea any way you ethically can (again, no offense to any biologists out there). I just know that these biologists here passionately want the bison herds to work for Yukon Flats and our area on the Innoko. After one of the meetings I had my students do research on the internet regarding the Canadian herds, the Delta and the Flat, Alaska herds. We called it "Pros and Cons to the reintroduction of Bison in Interior Alaska". First off, was the fact that well, yes, there were herds in Yukon Flats as late as 300 years ago. However, this stunned me; evidence of Ancient Bison in the Innoko drainage area occurred 6-10 million years ago, HARDLY basis for use of the term "REintroduced" which I thought was rather misleading on the part of the biologists! At any rate, the kids found out many "cons" to the bison reintroduction sell-job that were not mentioned during the splendid presentations and data the biologists had presented to the community. I don't necessarily like to become part of an argument for or against on this subject of "reintroduction" but I do try to teach kids to DO YOUR RESEARCH before making any changes to the environment to decide its impact. Last fall Fish and Wildlife decided that pike had become invasive in a popular fishing lake within the municipality of Anchorage so they decided to throw some kind of poison in there to kill off all the pike and in the spring, restock with, I guess, "approved" fish in the spring, which they did. I haven't heard anything since but that created a stir as well. The list goes on and on, interesting and sad, too, of many species of plants, birds, beasts and fish that have decimated a "natural" populous and how people want to "reclaim" the environment or habitat for its original inhabitants all over the world. It's good to discuss and I have been enjoying this thread. Joyanne Hamilton Shageluk, Alaska On Jun 25, 2009, at 12:12 PM, Tim Boucher wrote: > Actually most of the species were RE-introduced. The island > vegetation was > restored - mostly by volunteers! - and bird species that had been > there were > brought back. > > We did have a "discussion" about the :, which at this time exist in > the > wild only at high altitude on South Island. Apparently, there is > fossil > evidence that they also existed on North Island, and at lower > altitudes. > Given that Greg and Cheesecake and their young 'uns are running > around in > the tea garden, pinching tourists' lunches, it is hard to think of > them as > being truly wild. It is a whole lot more like a zoo without fences. > Though > actually, lots of the truly wild birds in NZ - especially on Ulva > Island - > are so unafraid of humans that they will sit right by you or > approach you. > > > So bottom line is: your list, your rules. Plus what do ABA rules > have to do > with non-ABA area lists? > > Ellen Paul > Chevy Chase MD > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand From: Tim Boucher <tboucher AT GEOCITIES.COM> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:12:36 -0700 Actually most of the species were RE-introduced. The island vegetation was restored - mostly by volunteers! - and bird species that had been there were brought back. We did have a "discussion" about the Takahe, which at this time exist in the wild only at high altitude on South Island. Apparently, there is fossil evidence that they also existed on North Island, and at lower altitudes. Given that Greg and Cheesecake and their young 'uns are running around in the tea garden, pinching tourists' lunches, it is hard to think of them as being truly wild. It is a whole lot more like a zoo without fences. Though actually, lots of the truly wild birds in NZ - especially on Ulva Island - are so unafraid of humans that they will sit right by you or approach you. So bottom line is: your list, your rules. Plus what do ABA rules have to do with non-ABA area lists? Ellen Paul Chevy Chase MD BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Mute Swans From: "Erdman, Thomas C" <erdmant AT UWGB.EDU> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:22:16 -0500 Gail: I agree! From biologists I know on the Chesapeake one of the major concerns about Mute Swans was the overgrazing of aquatics, year round. Chesapeake is the main wintering area for Tundra Swans, Atlantic population of Canada Geese, Brant, Greater Snow Geese and many species of ducks. Prior to the great increases in Mute Swans submergent aquatics flourished through spring and summer and provided food for wintering waterfowl. This was altered by the resident Mute Swans. In fact it has been suggested that this lack of an aquatic food source is what led to Geese, Mallards and Swans to begin flying inland to forage on croplands. This behavior began here on Green Bay, formerly a major stop over point, in the late 1970's. We still have Tundra Swans but they are dispersed west and south of Green Bay in corn fields that were mechanically harvested the autumn before. I would also point out that Mute Swans have a greater mass and are more aggressive than our native waterfowl. Mute Swans that breed on the south shore of Lake Superior migrate inland to winter on the open water of The Wisconsin River at Rhinelander in north central Wisconsin. I know of two local cases where captive Mute Swans inflicted injuries on caretakers, broken arms and legs. There are also records of two mortalities down in IL and IN. I believe one was an elderly gentleman knocked out of a boat and the other a jet skier. I know little about historic occurrences of Trumpeter Swans on the Chesapeake. Trumpeters certainly nested throughout the Great Lakes, James and Hudson Bay before the arrival of Europeans. This has been well documented through investigations of Native American garbage middens and the shipping records of the Hudson Bay Company which sent swan skins back to England. They were also recorded in the journals of early Jesuits as they explored the region. Exotic introductions have raised havoc on the Great Lakes ecosystem. I'm have mixed thoughts on reintroductions of once native species too. We really can't go back to presettlement days!! Fisher were reintroduced into northern Wisconsin and today we have the highest population densities in NA. This has had direful affects on many species, in particular woodland nesting raptors. Thomas Erdman UW-Green Bay -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gail Mackiernan Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:30 AM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Mute Swans Dear Barry -- I am not going to continue this discussion on BirdChat (or anywhere else for that matter) but only to say, the scientists who work on the Chesapeake Bay and who deal with its wildlife, its environment (and its problems) are the ones who have evaluated damage done by Mute Swans. And they are virtually unanimous in their desire to see them removed. Most are not very keen on the introduction of Trumpeters either, since they feel there is little if any evidence that they existed in the past. A few historical reports from the Chesapeake but subject to a lot of "interpretation." Invasive species should be removed whenever and wherever possible. Saying that native species are "weak" because they are impacted by non-native exotics (and using that as a reason for doing nothing) is not useful. And despite its problems I want to make clear that the Bay is not a "cesspool", it supports the largest number of nesting Ospreys in the world (4000 pairs and growing), about 1000 Bald Eagle pairs, hundreds of thousands of wintering waterfowl, and is the major spawning area on the Atlantic Coast for Striped Bass. I have worked on this estuary for all of my professional career and seen many changes, many for the worse but others for the better. Whether it can ever recover to the "ideal" envisioned by environmentalists depends on how well the rapid increases in population within its 64,000 square-mile watershed can be mitigated -- and in this I am not too optimistic. We can but try... Gail Mackiernan on 06/25/2009 10:28 AM, Barry K. MacKay at mimus AT sympatico.ca wrote: BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Mute Swans From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:47:27 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gail Mackiernan Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:30 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Mute Swans Dear Barry -- I am not going to continue this discussion on BirdChat (or anywhere else for that matter) but only to say, the scientists who work on the Chesapeake Bay and who deal with its wildlife, its environment (and its problems) are the ones who have evaluated damage done by Mute Swans. And they are virtually unanimous in their desire to see them removed. Most are not very keen on the introduction of Trumpeters either, since they feel there is little if any evidence that they existed in the past. A few historical reports from the Chesapeake but subject to a lot of "interpretation." My Comment: I'm glad to hear that. My impression here in Ontario is that while they are not too happy about it, either, they'll turn a blind eye to it. __________________________ Invasive species should be removed whenever and wherever possible. Saying that native species are "weak" because they are impacted by non-native exotics (and using that as a reason for doing nothing) is not useful. _______________________ I think for some invasive species, like Little Gulls and Cattle Egrets, it may be too late; for the vast majority of invasive species, from sea lampreys and alewives in the Great Lakes to dandelions in my lawn...it is WAY too late. But as philosopher Mark Sagoff notes: "Examples, however, are not arguments. Every barrel contains bad apples. One cannot condemn an entire group because of the offensive qualities of a few individuals. . .In fact, native species can be every bit as harmful as non-native ones. Throughout the Chesapeake region, annoying mosquitoes have served as vectors of disease. Mosquitoes were active when Captain John Smith explored the area. A nasty jellyfish, ubiquitous in the Chesapeake Bay from June through September, stings anyone foolhardy enough to enter the water, which is the reason few swim in the Bay during the hot summer months. This horrid creature, albeit native, seems to have no important function, ecological or otherwise, other than stinging people. The dinoflagellate Pfiesteria Piscicida metamorphoses into vegetative life forms, which spread toxins responsible for killing millions of fish. Then these strange plants again transform into large amoebae to eat the fish. Dubbed the "cell from Hell," Pfiesteria do not hail from Dante's Inferno but have lived for millennia at the bottoms of rivers such as Maryland's Pokomoke." Perhaps I should curb my curiosity but I still can't help but wonder why a specific native species can cope in one area with the same species, but fail in another. I think for many such instances there is an answer or suite of answers that can be identified and articulated...for example the American Mink is larger than the European Mink, and that, alone, could explain why it not only displaces the European species when introduced over there, but also why it can have a more negative impact on prey species. There are many other such examples where we have at least some idea of what is going on, but I find it hard to understand with regard the Mute Swan...what makes a species vulnerable to its presence in America, but not in Europe. I know there is a growing distaste for research not directed toward a specific commercial or social benefit, but I belong to the old fashioned way of thinking, that knowledge is worth having for its own sake. _______________________________________________________ And despite its problems I want to make clear that the Bay is not a "cesspool", it supports the largest number of nesting Ospreys in the world (4000 pairs and growing), about 1000 Bald Eagle pairs, hundreds of thousands of wintering waterfowl, and is the major spawning area on the Atlantic Coast for Striped Bass. I have worked on this estuary for all of my professional career and seen many changes, many for the worse but others for the better. Whether it can ever recover to the "ideal" envisioned by environmentalists depends on how well the rapid increases in population within its 64,000 square-mile watershed can be mitigated -- and in this I am not too optimistic. We can but try... ________________________________________________ Good luck with that. My own view is perhaps coloured by my familiar with a vastly larger watershed, the Great Lakes, where I'd argue "cesspool", albeit an exaggeration and overly-colourful, is not that inaccurate for the lower Great Lakes or Lake Michigan, at least. In the case of the Great Lakes, though, I don't think anyone has defined anything approaching an "ideal" state, beyond being cleaner (fewer toxins) than it is now. It can't "recover" to some idealistic former condition since at least some of the component species are extinct. Also, no one knows what that state was. The changes envisioned are politically driven, which is not necessarily "wrong", of course, but often the rationales given are specious. Barry Barry Kent MacKay Markham, Ontario, Canada BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Mute Swans From: "McCormac, Jim" <Jim.McCormac AT DNR.STATE.OH.US> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:36:30 -0400 Hi Gail, I want to thank you for your reasoned and researched comments on problems arising as a result of the increase in Mute Swan populations gone wild. We've seen much the same here in Ohio in our western Lake Erie marshes, where populations have risen dramatically in some areas. And I agree; the issue isn't worth debating with certain parties. On the other hand, it makes me cringe when I see all manner of non-factual statements put out there as you never know what will stick. As Barry wonders why Mute Swans don't wreak the biological havoc in their native range that they do here in their new non-native range, a point of explanation about invasive species biology is probably in order. In a nutshell, species co-evolve with each other over long periods of time. Predator/prey relationships become finely balanced, as do other natural factors that control population levels. Without man-induced tampering, the ecological communities remain in balance and over the long haul individual species stay at healthy equilibriums. Toss in something like a Mute Swan, which has very few natural predators here and essentially blindsides the members of the ecological web in which they invade, and native species suffer. One could argue that since we - people - introduced these birds and now know the detrimental consequences, we also have an obligation to try and remove them. Examples of introductions such as the Mute Swan causing all manner of harm are legion, with both flora and fauna. Look at the Hawaiian Islands, and what's happened there. Note the bright magenta mists of Purple Loosestrife carpeting a marsh; it has displaced native flora and fauna in a major way over here, but doesn't cause this sort of harm where it occurs naturally. Emerald Ash Borer is hardly known or studied in Asia where it occurs naturally; look at what happened when it made its way to North America. I don't think that anyone would dispute the problems that European Starlings and House Sparrows have caused our native avifauna. And there are additional examples ad nauseum. Not only do Mute Swans adversely impact native marsh-breeding birds with their aggressive territorialism, they are also akin to winged carp in that their feeding modus operandi is death on native marsh plants. The swans are almost entirely herbivorous and can uproot prodigious quantities of plants, as one might expect of a 22 pound bird. Furthermore, they also use their feet to dislodge vegetation, thus roiling the waters and increasing turbidity like a carp, consequently disrupting photosynthetic processes for aquatic plants. Part of what is going on with Mute Swans in the Chesapeake Bay region and elsewhere in North America regarding control efforts and the opposition to them is the large charismatic megafauna effect. They're big, neat-looking, easily observed, and people become emotionally attached to them. Unfortunately many of the loud voices who decry control measures know precious little about ecology. I personally don't want such types influencing what should be science-based management decisions. Oh, by the way, I got to spend some time in the Chesapeake Bay area last year, and would not support its designation as a "cesspool" :-) Jim McCormac Columbus, Ohio -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gail Mackiernan Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:30 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] Mute Swans Dear Barry -- I am not going to continue this discussion on BirdChat (or anywhere else for that matter) but only to say, the scientists who work on the Chesapeake Bay and who deal with its wildlife, its environment (and its problems) are the ones who have evaluated damage done by Mute Swans. And they are virtually unanimous in their desire to see them removed. Most are not very keen on the introduction of Trumpeters either, since they feel there is little if any evidence that they existed in the past. A few historical reports from the Chesapeake but subject to a lot of "interpretation." Invasive species should be removed whenever and wherever possible. Saying that native species are "weak" because they are impacted by non-native exotics (and using that as a reason for doing nothing) is not useful. And despite its problems I want to make clear that the Bay is not a "cesspool", it supports the largest number of nesting Ospreys in the world (4000 pairs and growing), about 1000 Bald Eagle pairs, hundreds of thousands of wintering waterfowl, and is the major spawning area on the Atlantic Coast for Striped Bass. I have worked on this estuary for all of my professional career and seen many changes, many for the worse but others for the better. Whether it can ever recover to the "ideal" envisioned by environmentalists depends on how well the rapid increases in population within its 64,000 square-mile watershed can be mitigated -- and in this I am not too optimistic. We can but try... Gail Mackiernan on 06/25/2009 10:28 AM, Barry K. MacKay at mimus AT sympatico.ca wrote: BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: RFI: "Status" of birds on Tiritiri Matangi Island New Zealand From: David M Mark <dmark AT BUFFALO.EDU> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:06:38 -0400 Hello: I will be visiting New Zealand in October and my hosts are planning to take me to Tiritiri Matangi Island. Sounds like it will be a great experience, but I am wondering if anyone can comment on the "countability" for bird listing. Apparently, native vegetation was established on the island between 1984 and 1994, and "a number of species of threatened and endangered birds have been successfully introduced" http://www.tiritirimatangi.org.nz/ But to me, "introduced" birds are not "countable" until they are fully "established". I would appreciate any comments on the specific situation of Tiritiri Matangi Island. Thanks, David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David M. Mark Amherst, New York (near Buffalo; home location) dmark AT buffalo.edu http://www.geog.buffalo.edu/~dmark/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Mute Swans From: Gail Mackiernan <katahdinss AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:29:55 -0400 Dear Barry -- I am not going to continue this discussion on BirdChat (or anywhere else for that matter) but only to say, the scientists who work on the Chesapeake Bay and who deal with its wildlife, its environment (and its problems) are the ones who have evaluated damage done by Mute Swans. And they are virtually unanimous in their desire to see them removed. Most are not very keen on the introduction of Trumpeters either, since they feel there is little if any evidence that they existed in the past. A few historical reports from the Chesapeake but subject to a lot of "interpretation." Invasive species should be removed whenever and wherever possible. Saying that native species are "weak" because they are impacted by non-native exotics (and using that as a reason for doing nothing) is not useful. And despite its problems I want to make clear that the Bay is not a "cesspool", it supports the largest number of nesting Ospreys in the world (4000 pairs and growing), about 1000 Bald Eagle pairs, hundreds of thousands of wintering waterfowl, and is the major spawning area on the Atlantic Coast for Striped Bass. I have worked on this estuary for all of my professional career and seen many changes, many for the worse but others for the better. Whether it can ever recover to the "ideal" envisioned by environmentalists depends on how well the rapid increases in population within its 64,000 square-mile watershed can be mitigated -- and in this I am not too optimistic. We can but try... Gail Mackiernan on 06/25/2009 10:28 AM, Barry K. MacKay at mimus AT sympatico.ca wrote: BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: I need your help From: Devorah Bennu <birdologist AT YAHOO.COM> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:40:33 -0700 Hello everyone, i am trying to win a competition that would take me to Antarctica in February 2010 for one month as the official blogger. Winning depends upon votes, and this is where you come in: I need your votes. Here's my entry where I have written a 300 word essay saying why I would be worthy of this high honor, http://www.blogyourwaytoantarctica.com/blogs/view/152 I would be deeply honored to win, and all I have to do is write one blog entry each day -- easy for me since I write five times that much on a normal day! cheers, GrrlScientist Devorah http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/ http://twitter.com/GrrlScientist Roosting high up a tree somewhere in Central Park, NYC BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Mute Swans From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:28:43 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gail Mackiernan Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:40 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Mute Swans Gail writes: "A summary of information on Mute Swans in Chesapeake Bay can be found at this link: www.mdsg.umd.edu/issues/restoration/non-natives/workshop/mute_swan.html "Mute Swans have been observed by numerous observers harassing, driving off and even injuring native Tundra Swans (in winter when they compete for food in the bay)." MY RESPONSE: It might be a better world if animals didn't hurt each other, but they do. I know how distressed we all were when the first hatched of a carefully guarded endangered Piping Plover was eaten by a Merlin, very recently, but no one advocated killing those, let alone all, Merlins. However, 99.9 plus percentage of Mute Swans have never hurt a Tundra, and 99.9 plus percentage of Tundras have never been hurt by a Mute. The Tundra Swan is generally considered to have two distinct races, one, the nominate, nests in the Canadian and Alsakan arctic and subarctic, while the other, the "Bewick's" Swan nests above the treeline in the eastern hemisphere. Both share wintering grounds with the less migratory (but still migratory, particularly in Eurasia). So again I have to wonder why it is that "our" swans are so fragile compared to their Eurasian counterparts...the same species? My suspicion is that they are not, that any number of Tundras who fail to survive because of Mutes is statistically insignificant and therefore pales in comparison to the number compromised by numerous other natural and anthropogenic factors. I've seen Tundras nesting and that whole ecosystem is at risk from global warming, notwithstanding the current cold spring (which, BTW, I see that global-warming deniers are citing as proof that Al Gore is wrong...it figures), and its impact on this year's recruitment. The placement, or not, of nets above Niagara Falls probably has a greater impace on Tundras then any Mute-caused injuries. Gail states: "Declines in wintering Tundras have been blamed at least in part on this competition. Since they are non-migratory in the mid-Atlantic, they nest locally and are highly territorial and aggressive to native species such as nesting Black Ducks." MY RESPONSE: If I may interrupt right there...American Black Ducks have been "hurt" by the intentional introduction of Mallards, historically a prairie-nesting species, into the east (facilitated, to be sure, by destruction of American Black Duck habitat, including the trapping of beavers...now recovering in response to a decline in sales of their furs) although there are still large areas where "pure" American Black Duck habitat exists in the absence of Mallards (I've seen this in northern Quebec and Labrador). Still, American Black Ducks continue to decline. While I think the concern about "genetic swamping" may be overstated, I have to wonder why, if it is a problem, wildlife management agencies STILL support translocation of Mallards into American Black Duck habitat. I think it's all pretty academic. But I would argue that NO removal of a population in decline is sustainable, and yet the declining American Black Duck is still a game bird! It's bizarre. I once suggested to the Canadian Wildlife Service that, since so many hunters can't distinguish between female Mallards and American Black Ducks, and since Mallards are "genetically swamping" American Black Ducks, why not ban the hunting of BOTH female Mallards, and all American Black Ducks, and DOUBLE the bag limits for easily identified male Mallards. Of course I was laughed out of the room on the grounds that hunters are "too conservative" for any such stratagem, and of course it's unthinkable that their revenue be foregone merely to protect American Black Duck stocks (the best defense against genetic swamping being a large population of the "swampee"). Gail states: " They were responsible for eliminating the only colony of Black Skimmers, as well as a colony of Least terns, in Maryland (Perry et al, 2001, U.S. F&WS report)." MY REPLY: Yes, and I am sorry about that, but do you really think that Trumpeter Swans will be more careful? Colonies come and go all the time and if you look at high altitude images of the U.S. east coast you will note a vast amount of Black Skimmer nesting habitat...the problem being people want to use it. Wildlife don't recognize anything so contrived as state boundaries, and so the issue is not the loss of a colony, so much as the fact that it was the only one in Maryland...a political, not an ecological, issue. Many things in nature render what was once suitable, non-suitable (and this is especially true in the case of sandbar nesters...sandbars are not noted for long-term stability). I would be happier, of course, had Mute Swans NOT been introduced, but I would also be happier if Trumpeters were not, either. I know that the fervent hope is that the Trumpeters will migrate, but all evidence to date is that they are no more likely to do so than do Mutes. Even out west Trumpeters have "chosen" death by starvation over simply migrating as their ancestors would have done. Gail states: "Mute Swans have been estimated to consume 12% or so of the Bay's aquatic vegetation each year. Exclosure studies have found that while vegetation density increases within the exclosures, areas grazed by mute swans become progressively denuded (Tatu et al, 2007, J. Wildlife Mgt. 71(5). Since submerged vegetation is vita to Blue Crabs and many other naive creatures, this is not a trivial concern. There is considerably more information in a number of reports and symposia results on impacts of mute swans in the Bay; many of these are cited in the above paper." MY RESPONSE: Exclosures are one of the more insidious devices invented by the wildlife management profession in the promotion of j unk science. They exclude everything that can't fit through the mesh, but create an artificially concentrated population of whatever is being protected. The herbivores are naturally attracted to that lush vegetation, can't access it, but do eat all around it, thus creating an illusion which is used to convince the naïve that the condition abutting the exclosure represents the entire habitat. Of course the vegetation is important to other fauna! And I do understand your point that the pressure of Mutes is greater than that of migrant birds who leave the area, such as the much greater numbers of wintering swans that once occurred there (although those more massive flocks may well have eaten far more in a shorter time span...alas we cannot know). But going back at least to the 1920s, when your government was dumping all manner of "ordinances" and who knows what into the Bay, it's been pretty much a churned up cesspool. Mute Swans have become a simplistic scapegoat. Gail states: "Since 2003 the state of Maryland had had a control program which includes egg-addling as well as lethal control of adults, and populations have been reduced from about 4000 birds to about 500. "I agree that control of introduced species is poor and that we need to do a far better job. Invasive species are one of the major threats to aquatic ecosystems (look at what has happened to the Great Lakes) but we have very ineffective means of keeping them out." MY RESPONSE: Exactly...but it is not just that we have a poor record of keeping them out, "we", to the degree that our tax dollars fund the wildlife management profession, keep putting them in! I shudder to think what would happen to any nongame bird that ate or displaced as many native fish as does the Coho Salmon...and yet our tax dollars continue to assure that this entirely alien species continues to ravage the Great Lakes. (Meanwhile, what happens to the lovely native Brook Trout seems to be of no concern...the species dares to be "too boney" to warrant concern. Um....what role does "ecological integrity" play in THAT determination?) It is not, I again emphasize, that I am indifferent to the introduction of non-native species, it is just that they are here, and in fact, where I live all species are non "native" if you go back not too far...to when what is now my neighbourhood was buried under a mile of ice. The robins and chickadees and Downy Woodpeckers in my garden are all "invasive" species, having arrived in the last few thousand years. I think that there has to be not only some balance, but some prioritizing on the basis of environmental, as opposed to political, conerns. It is far easier to shoot swans than to sterilize ship bilges, and far easier to do that than to eliminate spiny water fleas once they are established. But the fact is that Mute Swans are greatly beloved, are innocuous in similar environments in Eurasia, and are so widely distributed, both as feral populations and as living ornaments in private hands, that they are here to stay, and even in the absence of humans, could well be here on their own at any rate at any given time. Genetically they most closely resemble the Black-necked Swan of South America, leading to the speculation that the mutual progenitors of both species probably arose in North America, and spread to Eurasia, to become the modern Mute, and south to South America, to become the modern Black-necked. Alternatively, they could have started out as a distinct form in South America, and moved north, with divergence leading to the Black-necked in South America, and a Mute-like form in North America, which later spread to Eurasia, but died out in North America during the Pleistocene extinctions. Gail states: "Accidental introductions are also a real concern; research we funded (at Maryland Sea Grant) looking at ballast water of ships coming into Baltimore found larvae of all sorts of creatures, as well as pathogenic viruses and bacteria." My RESPONSE: Yes...this is the origin of the Zebra Mussel and the Round Goby, here in the Great Lakes, with terrible results (although some positive, and yet although the technical means of sterilizing such ballast exist, they are still not mandated. Much easier to demonize and kill swans. Barry Barry Kent MacKay Markham, Ontario, Canada BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: ADMIN: Summer vacations From: Chuck & Jaye Otte <otte2 AT COX.NET> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:05:32 -0500 Good evening Chatters! We are certainly in to that time of year when some of us have the good fortune to take a couple of weeks off from work and spend it, hopefully, birding in some new and different location. If you are going to be away from your computer and don't want your mailbox to fill up with BirdChat messages, the recommended action is to set yourself to NOMAIL. The directions to do this are on the BirdChat guidelines page, the URL to which is found at the bottom of each BirdChat message but is: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Quickly though, you send the message Set BirdChat NOMAIL to: listserv AT listserv.arizona.edu NOTE - the command "Set BirdChat NOMAIL" must be in the body of the message, NOT the subject line. And it HAS to be sent to listserv AT listserv.arizona.edu which is not the same address you send BirdChat messages to. When you return from your vacation, you can re-start normal mail delivery with the command, Set BirdChat MAIL to the same address. Capitalization is irrelevant with either of these commands. The NOMAIL/MAIL command is far preferred over simply signing off the list because you don't have to suffer through the two week waiting period before we set your account to post after resubscribing Again, all of this information is on the BirdChat guidelines page. The URL for the guidelines page is found at the bottom of every BirdChat message. If you have any questions, please feel free to drop me a note. Enjoy your summer and/or your summer vacation! Chuck Otte BirdChat co-listowner +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chuck & Jaye Otte mailto:otte2 AT cox.net 613 Tamerisk Junction City Kansas USA 66441 785-238-8800 BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: How to Hold Mail From: Joan Czapalay <joancz AT NS.SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:16:13 -0300 I will be off line for a while, and in the confusion of moving, I have misplaced (both physically and electronically) the directions of how to Hold Mail on BirdChat. Can someone help? Thanks! I'll miss these chats. Especially enjoyed the 5 things about birding in August. Thanks, Ted! Cheers to all and have a great summer. Joan in Nova Scotia. BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: FYI: Contact Info for Arturo Kirkconnell & other Cuban bird guides From: "Jose V. Padilla" <jvp0208 AT AOL.COM> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:27:50 -0400 Travel to Cuba is possible with a license from the US treasury. There are multiple ways of getting one. I have gone twice and the birding is excellent. I have birded with Arturo K. and I can say he is one of the most qualified guides there is. On Jun 24, 2009, at 4:26 PM, Rick wrote: > Blake Maybank wrote: >> Hi Chatters; >> >> As a favour to Arturo Kirkconnell, Cuba's top birder and bird >> researcher, I have placed his contact information on a web page for >> easy reference. I have also included e-mail contacts for a number >> of local Cuban bird guides as well. >> >> The web page is: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/cubabirding >> >> Please contact me if you have any questions regarding this web >> page, or can provide any corrections or additions. >> >> Good birding, >> >> >> --- >> --- >> --- >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Blake Maybank >> maybank AT ns.sympatico.ca >> 902-852-2077 >> >> Editor, "Nova Scotia Birds" >> http://nsbs.chebucto.org >> >> author, "Birding Sites of Nova Scotia" >> http://maybank.tripod.com/BSNS.htm >> >> White's Lake, Nova Scotia, Canada >> BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html >> Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html >> >> > That is interesting information and maybe someday folks from the US > can venture down there but, as far as I know travel to > Cuba except in some very limited cases is forbidden by the US > Government. > > -- > > Rick > Fargo, ND > N 46°53'251" > W 096°48'279" > > Remember the USS Liberty > http://www.ussliberty.org/ > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: FYI: Contact Info for Arturo Kirkconnell & other Cuban bird guides From: Nancy L Newfield <nancy AT CASACOLIBRI.NET> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:52:24 -0500 Rick, At 03:26 PM 6/24/2009, Rick wrote: >That is interesting information and maybe >someday folks from the US can venture down there >but, as far as I know travel to >Cuba except in some very limited cases is forbidden by the US Government. First and foremost, I'd say that BIRDCHAT is larger than the United States and information that is not useful to one birder might well be very useful to another. Please note that the person who posted it is from Canada. Travel to Cuba by US citizens is limited though possible if one is clever. I went legally last February as part of an ornithological survey group. I am sure that other 'CHATters have been. The experience was exhilarating! NLN ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nancy L Newfield Casa Colibrí Metairie, Louisiana USA nancy AT casacolibri.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: FYI: Contact Info for Arturo Kirkconnell & other Cuban bird guides From: Rick <fholbrook AT CABLEONE.NET> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:26:38 -0500 Blake Maybank wrote: > Hi Chatters; > > As a favour to Arturo Kirkconnell, Cuba's top birder and bird > researcher, I have placed his contact information on a web page for > easy reference. I have also included e-mail contacts for a number of > local Cuban bird guides as well. > > The web page is: > > http://tinyurl.com/cubabirding > > Please contact me if you have any questions regarding this web page, > or can provide any corrections or additions. > > Good birding, > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Blake Maybank > maybank AT ns.sympatico.ca > 902-852-2077 > > Editor, "Nova Scotia Birds" > http://nsbs.chebucto.org > > author, "Birding Sites of Nova Scotia" > http://maybank.tripod.com/BSNS.htm > > White's Lake, Nova Scotia, Canada > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > > That is interesting information and maybe someday folks from the US can venture down there but, as far as I know travel to Cuba except in some very limited cases is forbidden by the US Government. -- Rick Fargo, ND N 46°53'251" W 096°48'279" Remember the USS Liberty http://www.ussliberty.org/ BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Mute Swans From: Gail Mackiernan <katahdinss AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:39:32 -0400 A summary of information on Mute Swans in Chesapeake Bay can be found at this link: www.mdsg.umd.edu/issues/restoration/non-natives/workshop/mute_swan.html Mute Swans have been observed by numerous observers harassing, driving off and even injuring native Tundra Swans (in winter when they compete for food in the bay). Declines in wintering Tundras have been blamed at least in part on this competition. Since they are non-migratory in the mid-Atlantic, they nest locally and are highly territorial and aggressive to native species such as nesting Black Ducks. They were responsible for eliminating the only colony of Black Skimmers, as well as a colony of Least terns, in Maryland (Perry et al, 2001, U.S. F&WS report). Mute Swans have been estimated to consume 12% or so of the Bay's aquatic vegetation each year. Exclosure studies have found that while vegetation density increases within the exclosures, areas grazed by mute swans become progressively denuded (Tatu et al, 2007, J. Wildlife Mgt. 71(5). Since submerged vegetation is vita to Blue Crabs and many other naive creatures, this is not a trivial concern. There is considerably more information in a number of reports and symposia results on impacts of mute swans in the Bay; many of these are cited in the above paper. Since 2003 the state of Maryland had had a control program which includes egg-addling as well as lethal control of adults, and populations have been reduced from about 4000 birds to about 500. I agree that control of introduced species is poor and that we need to do a far better job. Invasive species are one of the major threats to aquatic ecosystems (look at what has happened to the Great Lakes) but we have very ineffective means of keeping them out. Accidental introductions are also a real concern; research we funded (at Maryland Sea Grant) looking at ballast water of ships coming into Baltimore found larvae of all sorts of creatures, as well as pathogenic viruses and bacteria. Gail Mackiernan Silver Spring, MD on 06/24/2009 12:17 PM, Barry K. MacKay at mimus AT sympatico.ca wrote: > To the best of my always limited knowledge, there is no lethal culling of > Mutes in Canada (although I'm a bit vague on that vis-à-vis BC) in Canada, > although there has been some egg control. > > The species has shown up in James Bay, where they would not be able to > winter, so saying they are non-migratory is, while basically accurate, not > absolutely so (assuming the ones in James Bay left at the end of > summer....no way they could stay all winter.) > > While I know there is a record or two of Mutes either trampling the eggs of > ground nesters (skimmers) or otherwise displacing them, I would be > interested in any proof of a statistically significant "impact" on other > species. > > When I searched for documented proof of it, a few years ago, I found none, > just vague allegations but nothing solid or no scientifically valid > reference. > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Frozen Canada means bad news for breeding birds From: Allison Wells <awells AT NRCM.ORG> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:21:47 -0400 A recent article from the Winnipeg Free Press describes how much of the North was locked in with snow and ice very late this year - bad news for the birds that breed there. You can see photos of this frozen breeding ground taken during a trip there last week by Boreal Songbird Initiative senior scientist Jeff Wells at his blog. It's at http://www.borealbirds.org/blog/. Allison Wells Natural Resources Council of Maine 3 Wade Street Augusta, ME 04330 (207) 430-0180 www.nrcm.org Protect the nature of Maine - become a member today! BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: conditions in manitoba and ontario From: darrell neufeld <darrellneufeld AT GMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:17:23 -0500 Hi All, From my own experience here in Manitoba,especially Grand Beach last weekend.Still lots of birds singing on territory.But also lots of birds with young,Hairy Woodpecker,Eastern Bluebird ,Killdeer and Common Goldeneye. On nest seen Yellow warbler and Piping Plover .Have not seen any type of early migration by non-nesters though,but then again I don't know exactly what you mean by non-nesters? Darrell Neufeld Winnipeg, Manitoba darrellneufeld AT gmail.com On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Jim Williams wrote: > I've been told that the nesting season in parts of Manitoba and Ontario has > been non-existent because of cold weather conditions, and that non-nesters > are heading south already. Can anyone offer comment on this? > > Thanks. > > Jim Williams > Wayzata, Minnesta > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: conditions in manitoba and ontario From: "Barry K. MacKay" <mimus AT SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:17:47 -0400 To the best of my always limited knowledge, there is no lethal culling of Mutes in Canada (although I'm a bit vague on that vis-à-vis BC) in Canada, although there has been some egg control. The species has shown up in James Bay, where they would not be able to winter, so saying they are non-migratory is, while basically accurate, not absolutely so (assuming the ones in James Bay left at the end of summer....no way they could stay all winter.) While I know there is a record or two of Mutes either trampling the eggs of ground nesters (skimmers) or otherwise displacing them, I would be interested in any proof of a statistically significant "impact" on other species. When I searched for documented proof of it, a few years ago, I found none, just vague allegations but nothing solid or no scientifically valid reference. In Eurasia the range of the Mute Swan overlaps that of similar, ground-nesting species (not the skimmer, but certainly the Little Tern, for example) and I have been unable to determine why they impact a species on this side of the Atlantic, but not the same or similar species on the other side? Does anyone know? Meanwhile, what really puzzles me is the move to "re"introduce Trumpeter Swans east of where there is any solid proof of them having bred historically, as breeding birds. Introduced Trumpeter Swans also tend to be non-migratory, have the same sized feet as Mute Swans, are just as aggressive (if not more so) toward other species, eat the same sorts of vegetation, also produce excrement of a similar type in similar amounts (I can't tell them apart) and are a lot more noisy (as a comparison of their names would indicate), which could be an issue in urban areas (and around here, they are, like Mutes, in urban areas). Mute Swans ought never to have been introduced, but they are just one of thousands of species of animals and plants once absent from North America, now common. Ecologically, it is harder and harder to distinguish the Eurasian landscape where they are native from the North American landscape where they co-exist with many of the same plant and other species. I would LOVE to see agencies that are stressed by "alien" species after the fact, join in an effort to ban the import of non-native wildlife species (although that could be seen as closing the barn door after all the horses have not only fled the barn, but also established wide-ranging, self-sustaining herds over much of the continent). But there are new species entering into various international trade all the time (look at the burgeoning aquaculture industry...great potential, some already recognized, for alien aquatic species displacing native ones). Even within the continent, sport fishermen have happily introduced various live "bait" species into waters where they never historically occurred, not always with happy results. And we won't get into the exotic pet industry, eh? Gad, the same agencies who rant and rave about Mute Swans (and try, sadly with success, to convince folks that even native species are "invasive") think nothing of introducing their exotic species on their own, so long as said exotics (various Salmonids, for example, or Ring-necked Pheasants and other Galliformes) might generate revenue. And speaking of horses, like them, a Mute Swan-like creature WAS native to North America, but was among that wide range of species which, for reasons that are unknown (although controversy theories abound) were lost during the Pleistocene extinction spasm, around the first time the first humans arrived in the western hemisphere (are they native or alien?). As our own species gets ever more abundant and has an even greater impact on a world under siege, we seem to be ever less tolerant of other species that dare to be anything other than rare enough so as to cause no real or conceived problem. Mute Swans, like many other strong-flying Eurasian bird species, could have colonized (or "re"colonized) the western hemisphere at any time, just as, for example, Eurasian Wigeon or Little Gulls or Cattle Egrets, have done, with or without human help. In nature change is the only constant. Chesapeake Bay is something of an ecological disaster, filled with pollutions (much of it from surrounding intensive agricultural run-off, as well as industry) with the bottom (any part that can be reached by any swan) constantly churned by propellers of a virtual armada of small craft, so what is to be done? Blame the swans...works every time and saves us from having to work out real solutions which invariably will curtail activities that make profits or provide fun for people who, unlike swans, vote and make political contributions. Cheers, Barry Barry Kent MacKay Markham, Ontario, Canada (PS...at least they aren't blaming cormorants for Chesapeake...but I imagine they'll get around to it eventually.) -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gail Mackiernan Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:47 AM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Re: [BIRDCHAT] conditions in manitoba and ontario Mute Swans do not migrate and would have bred locally, so lack of offspring may indicate there is an ongoing control program for these non-natives. There is one in Maryland and the state has just decided to continue to eliminate these birds from the Chesapeake, where they have had considerable impact on native species including black skimmers and least terns. This decision as been supported by all the major groups such as ABC, NAS and Maryland Ornithological Society. Gail Mackiernan Silver Spring, MD on 06/24/2009 8:18 AM, bill elrick at belrick AT OPTONLINE.NET wrote: > Jim, > I did note a huge number of mature Mute swans in NJ Tueday June 18th 2009. I > counted 67 and someone else had 129 adults only on Sunday. {Please everyone > don't tell me who cares as they are invasive I already had that comment.} I > would have assume there would be a majority of first year birds in any > congriagations of swans at this time but these were all adults. This may > just be a very noticeable result of the weather causing mass nest failures > or as I hear there are systematic Maryland/FED actions to reduce the > population. Is this a Eat coast phenomena or is it national. Anyone notice > any other species arriving with mainly adults and no juv's? > > Bill Elrick > Wyckoff > NJ > 07481 > Skype me as " Bilbander " > belrick AT NYNJBirdingGuide.com > http://nynjbirdingguide.com/ > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: Speculation on Rare Birds From: Julian Bell <jules AT NATURALBORNBIRDER.COM> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:15:09 +0200 I have often pondered this question and similar ones especially applicable to seawatching (sitting on headlands staring out to sea for hours). Like what is the percentage of birds you miss whilst actually birding (as opposed to missing them when stuck doing something else)? How come we still miss birds even when there are a lot of us looking? A few years ago I wrote a bit about this kind of thing (and other philosophical birding questions like how often do we see the same migrating bird?). Anyone interested can look at this page: http://www.naturalbornbirder.com/skogsoey/junky.php Good birding Julian Bell SW Norway www.naturalbornbirder.com Latest sightings: http://oeygardenbirds.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pastor Al Schirmacher" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: [BIRDCHAT] Speculation on Rare Birds >I wonder how many rare birds (casual, accidental, first in state, first in >country) we miss annually? When one considers the following factors: > > * Areas that are rarely, or never, covered > > * Birders' lack of familiarity with birds outside their region > > * Birders' audio skills (eg, how many of us here in Minnesota would have > picked up on the recent Western Wood-Peewee's call?) > > * Birds' ability to skulk, hide and otherwise camouflage their presence & > activity > > * Disparity between birds' and birders' time of activity (how many of us > get out early enough in the morning, or late enough in the evening?) > > * And other variables. > > So, do we pick up on 2% of our rarer visitors? 5%? 10%? > > Additionally, when we do pick up on a rarity, is it truly the only one in > the state, or one of many? > > Speculations on a muggy June Wednesday morning (having enjoyed a > Golden-winged and Canada Warbler prior to starting). > > Good birding to all! > > Al Schirmacher > Princeton, MN > Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Minot, North Dakota: ABA conference wrap-up From: Ted Floyd <tedfloyd57 AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:58:56 -0700 Hello, BirdChatters. Here's an overview of highlights from the recent ABA Regional Conference in Minot, North Dakota, held June 14-19, 2009. First and foremost, of course, were the birds. All participants visited the following 4 sites: 1. Lostwood and Des Lacs National Wildlife Refuges. This pair of NWRs, both designated as Globally Important Bird Areas, provided participants with killer studies of teed-up Baird's Sparrows and skylarking Sprague's Pipits. A personal highlight for me was up-close studies of countersinging male Nelson's Sharp-tailed Sparrows. 2. Turtle Mountains. This is the "Other North Dakota," if you will. The extensive broadleaf forests are home to breeding Mourning Warblers and celata Orange-crowned Warblers, Pileated Woodpeckers and Ruffed Grouse, Veeries and Alder Flycatchers, and others. And nesting Red-necked Grebes everywhere we looked. 3. J. Clark Salyer National Wildlife Refuge. This is the crown jewel of McHenry County--perhaps the birdiest county in North Dakota. Field trips exceeded 100 species daily, with such goodies as Sharp-tailed Grouse, Yellow Rail, ferocious Marbled Godwits, Sedge Wren, Le Conte's Sparrow, Chestnut-collared Longspur, and many others. 4. Garrison Dam. In the woods below the dam, we found a fine mix of East/West species, among them Black-billed Cuckoo, Yellow-throated Vireo, Lazuli Bunting, and Black-headed Grosbeak. At the dam itself, we had a great tutorial in distinguishing among the various species of gulls and terns present. Indoors, there was lots going on, too. Ron Martin gave a really interesting talk on changes in North Dakota bird populations during the past 40 years; Jon Dunn scintillated with a workshop on sparrow plumages and behaviors; and some guy named Floyd talked about birding at night, the future of birding, and the wonders and glories of the American Robin. Daily field trip wrap-ups quickly disintegrated into hilarious musings about stratospheric pipits, buses stuck in the mud, and the frustration of seen-only birds. Congratulations to field trip coordinator Ron Martin and all the field trip leaders for their superb work in the field. And congratulations to ABA staff and volunteers Tamie Bulow, Brenda Gibb, Jane Kostenko, Tyler Bell, and Bill Maynard for putting on a great show, as always. I can't wait to get back! To learn about upcoming ABA conferences and conventions, please check out this website: http://www.aba.org/mtgs/upcoming.html Ted Floyd tedfloyd57 AT hotmail.com Lafayette, Boulder County, Colorado ------------------------------- Ted Floyd Editor, Birding ------------------------------- Please support the American Birding Association: Click on http://www.goodsearch.com/?charityid=884482 to search the internet. Every search provides support to the ABA's programs in Education, Conservation, and Publications. Please visit the website of the American Birding Association: http://www.aba.org _________________________________________________________________ Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: FYI: Contact Info for Arturo Kirkconnell & other Cuban bird guides From: Blake Maybank <maybank AT NS.SYMPATICO.CA> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:55:06 -0300 Hi Chatters; As a favour to Arturo Kirkconnell, Cuba's top birder and bird researcher, I have placed his contact information on a web page for easy reference. I have also included e-mail contacts for a number of local Cuban bird guides as well. The web page is: http://tinyurl.com/cubabirding Please contact me if you have any questions regarding this web page, or can provide any corrections or additions. Good birding, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blake Maybank maybank AT ns.sympatico.ca 902-852-2077 Editor, "Nova Scotia Birds" http://nsbs.chebucto.org author, "Birding Sites of Nova Scotia" http://maybank.tripod.com/BSNS.htm White's Lake, Nova Scotia, Canada BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Speculation on Rare Birds From: Pastor Al Schirmacher <pastoral AT PRINCETONFREECHURCH.NET> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:50:12 -0500 I wonder how many rare birds (casual, accidental, first in state, first in country) we miss annually? When one considers the following factors: * Areas that are rarely, or never, covered * Birders' lack of familiarity with birds outside their region * Birders' audio skills (eg, how many of us here in Minnesota would have picked up on the recent Western Wood-Peewee's call?) * Birds' ability to skulk, hide and otherwise camouflage their presence & activity * Disparity between birds' and birders' time of activity (how many of us get out early enough in the morning, or late enough in the evening?) * And other variables. So, do we pick up on 2% of our rarer visitors? 5%? 10%? Additionally, when we do pick up on a rarity, is it truly the only one in the state, or one of many? Speculations on a muggy June Wednesday morning (having enjoyed a Golden-winged and Canada Warbler prior to starting). Good birding to all! Al Schirmacher Princeton, MN Mille Lacs & Sherburne Counties BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: conditions in manitoba and ontario From: Gail Mackiernan <katahdinss AT COMCAST.NET> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:47:00 -0400 Mute Swans do not migrate and would have bred locally, so lack of offspring may indicate there is an ongoing control program for these non-natives. There is one in Maryland and the state has just decided to continue to eliminate these birds from the Chesapeake, where they have had considerable impact on native species including black skimmers and least terns. This decision as been supported by all the major groups such as ABC, NAS and Maryland Ornithological Society. Gail Mackiernan Silver Spring, MD on 06/24/2009 8:18 AM, bill elrick at belrick AT OPTONLINE.NET wrote: > Jim, > I did note a huge number of mature Mute swans in NJ Tueday June 18th 2009. I > counted 67 and someone else had 129 adults only on Sunday. {Please everyone > don't tell me who cares as they are invasive I already had that comment.} I > would have assume there would be a majority of first year birds in any > congriagations of swans at this time but these were all adults. This may > just be a very noticeable result of the weather causing mass nest failures > or as I hear there are systematic Maryland/FED actions to reduce the > population. Is this a Eat coast phenomena or is it national. Anyone notice > any other species arriving with mainly adults and no juv's? > > Bill Elrick > Wyckoff > NJ > 07481 > Skype me as " Bilbander " > belrick AT NYNJBirdingGuide.com > http://nynjbirdingguide.com/ > > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: conditions in manitoba and ontario From: bill elrick <belrick AT OPTONLINE.NET> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:18:39 -0400 Jim, I did note a huge number of mature Mute swans in NJ Tueday June 18th 2009. I counted 67 and someone else had 129 adults only on Sunday. {Please everyone don't tell me who cares as they are invasive I already had that comment.} I would have assume there would be a majority of first year birds in any congriagations of swans at this time but these were all adults. This may just be a very noticeable result of the weather causing mass nest failures or as I hear there are systematic Maryland/FED actions to reduce the population. Is this a Eat coast phenomena or is it national. Anyone notice any other species arriving with mainly adults and no juv's? Bill Elrick Wyckoff NJ 07481 Skype me as " Bilbander " belrick AT NYNJBirdingGuide.com http://nynjbirdingguide.com/ -----Original Message----- From: National Birding Hotline Cooperative (Chat Line) [mailto:BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jim Williams Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:18 PM To: BIRDCHAT AT LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: [BIRDCHAT] conditions in manitoba and ontario I've been told that the nesting season in parts of Manitoba and Ontario has been non-existent because of cold weather conditions, and that non-nesters are heading south already. Can anyone offer comment on this? Thanks. Jim Williams Wayzata, Minnesta BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.90/2198 - Release Date: 06/23/09 17:54:00 BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: birding in August? From: Stephen Christopher <s.christopher AT TELEFONICA.NET> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:44:06 +0200 Hi Lloyd Some pretty amazing pictures there I have to say. I thoroughly enjoyed looking through the waders, even though I'm not familiar with most, and will get around to the rest in due course. I didn't notice a links section; do you have one and would you be up for a link swap? All the best Stephen Christopher www.catalanbirdtours.com Birding Holidays and Bird Tours in Spain www.surfbirds.com/blog/spainbirding/ Spain Birding blog, trip reports and photos !! 10% Discount !! on all shared birding short-breaks and holidays (offer ends 31 July 2009). On 23 Jun 2009, at 23:37, Lloyd Spitalnik wrote: > Hi all, > Living in NYC definitely has its advantages. Jamaica Bay Wildlife > Refuge is one of them. August is prime time for shorebird > photography. The refuge is considered a world class location for > seeing and photographing shorebirds up close and personal. You can > see what I'm talking about on my website http:// > lloydspitalnikphotos.com/v/shorebirds/ Although not every image was > taken at Jamaica Bay, the vast majority are. Kevin Karlson (The > Shorebird Guide), Don Riepe and I are running our 3rd annual > Jamaica Bay Shorebird Festival on August 9th. I'm available to lead > individuals and small groups any day of the week. Fees upon > request. If you've never been here you're really missing a major > opportunity. > Lloyd > > Lloyd Spitalnik's Wildlife Galleries > www.lloydspitalnikphotos.com > www.blog.lloydspitalnikphotos.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: conditions in manitoba and ontario From: Jim Williams <two-jays AT ATT.NET> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:18:14 +0000 I've been told that the nesting season in parts of Manitoba and Ontario has been non-existent because of cold weather conditions, and that non-nesters are heading south already. Can anyone offer comment on this? Thanks. Jim Williams Wayzata, Minnesta BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Fw: [BIRDCHAT] birding in August? From: Lloyd Spitalnik <lloyd22 AT NYC.RR.COM> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:38:25 -0400 Hi all, Living in NYC definitely has its advantages. Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge is one of them. August is prime time for shorebird photography. The refuge is considered a world class location for seeing and photographing shorebirds up close and personal. You can see what I'm talking about on my website http://lloydspitalnikphotos.com/v/shorebirds/ Although not every image was taken at Jamaica Bay, the vast majority are. Kevin Karlson (The Shorebird Guide), Don Riepe and I are running our 3rd annual Jamaica Bay Shorebird Festival on August 9th. I'm available to lead individuals and small groups any day of the week. Fees upon request. If you've never been here you're really missing a major opportunity. Lloyd Lloyd Spitalnik's Wildlife Galleries www.lloydspitalnikphotos.com www.blog.lloydspitalnikphotos.com BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: birding in August? From: Stephen Christopher <s.christopher AT TELEFONICA.NET> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:32:32 +0200 Some great points there Ted. I love birding in summer and here in Spain, often because of the heat, as well as in the UK, summer birding is seen as dull and uneventful with many not even bothering. Not only are the juveniles a challenge, it's obviously the only time of year to see them AND they bring their parents out into the open to be fed on exposed posts, wires, etc. And migration of course. A great one here is Dotterel, which begin passing through mid-August, as well as many other waders, some raptors, etc. Hadn't heard of Zugunruhe but will look into it now. Many thanks and all the best Stephen Christopher www.catalanbirdtours.com Birding Holidays and Bird Tours in Spain www.surfbirds.com/blog/spainbirding/ Spain Birding blog, trip reports and photos !! 10% Discount !! on all shared birding short-breaks and holidays (offer ends 20 July 2009). On 23 Jun 2009, at 20:12, Ted Floyd wrote: > Hello, BirdChatters. > > I've been enjoying the discussion about birding in August. > > As Gordon Bonnet says: > >> I know a lot of the local birding activity (I'm in >> upstate New York) has died down by August -- picks >> up again in mid-September with migration. > > For sure, that's the conventional wisdom. Over the years, though, > I've come to view the month of August as the most exciting in mid- > latitude North America. Seriously. Birding in the month of August > is, in a word, dynamic. Sure, it's awesome in southeastern Arizona, > as several BirdChatters have noted. But it's truly exciting pretty > much everywhere across the Lower 48. > > Here are 5 things that are especially exciting about birding in > August: > > 1. Juveniles. If you want a cutting-edge ID challenge, try recently > fledged juveniles. These birds are out of the nest, they can fly, > and they're more-or-less independent. Something as "easy" as a > Mountain Bluebird or Western Tanager can be surprisingly hard to > identify in August. If ID challenges aren't your thing (which is > fine), there's the whole other angle of the fascinating biology of > juveniles. It is well worth the effort to really pay attention to > young Red-winged Blackbirds, Red-eyed Vireos, whatever. > > 2. Molt. All birds do it, and most North American birds are doing > it, to some extent or another, in the month of August. (All of our > breeding birds, I believe, have a "prebasic," or fall, molt.) As > with juveniles, molt can present both an ID challenge and the > opportunity to observe fascinating biology in action. If you want a > "point of entry," so to speak, into the world of molt, check out > all those male ducks in August. Or how about grebes? I wonder how > many U.S. birders are aware that many grebes are flightless--in > connection with molt--during much of the summer. I sure didn't know > that until fairly recently. > > 3. Zugunruhe. It's a goofy word, but it's a really interesting > phenomenon. The German, translated very loosely, comes out in > English to "migratory restlessness." Prior to migration, many birds > get fidgety, and this fidgetiness is easy to observe. In Colorado, > for example, I've noticed a sharp increase in the number of flight > calls given by Swainson's Thrushes and Veeries while still on the > breeding grounds--after they've stopped singing, yet prior to > migration. The August woods are alive with the flight calls of > these and other species getting ready to migrate. > > 4. Nighttime. Many landbird species are on the move in August--even > in July--and you can hear them at night. In Colorado, there are > strong nighttime flights in August of Chipping Sparrows, Lark > Sparrows, and Yellow Warblers. In fact, we get our heaviest night > flights, it seems, in the last week of August, with decent > nocturnal passages as early as late July. I love going out on hot > August nights and hearing the chips and buzzes of invisible > migrants in the dark. > > 5. Shorebirds! Even for avowed dicky-bird types like myself, the > August shorebird flight across North America is a thing of wonder. > You can witness this phenomenon practically anywhere: in big cities > like New York and Chicago, at our national wildlife refuges, in > deserts and grasslands, you name it. Our August shorebird flight > has it all: ID challenges, if you want that; great biology for > anybody to observe; and always the potential of some outlandish > rarity. > > One final thought, if I may. I guess this would be #6. > > 6. Lots of birds. My guess is there are more birds in North America > in August than in any other month of the year. (Because of all the > juveniles; they haven't died yet, as so many will, on fall > migration and on the wintering grounds.) Just walk outside your > house, wherever it is, and start looking and listening. Birds are > conspicuous in August, they're doing fascinating things, and there > are so many of them. > > Ted Floyd > tedfloyd57 AT hotmail.com > Lafayette, Boulder County, Colorado > > ------------------------------- > > Ted Floyd > Editor, Birding > > ------------------------------- > > Please support the American Birding Association: Click on http:// > www.goodsearch.com/?charityid=884482 to search the internet. > > Every search provides support to the ABA's programs in Education, > Conservation, and Publications. > > Please visit the website of the American Birding Association: > http://www.aba.org > _________________________________________________________________ > Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one > place. Try it now. > http://www.bing.com/search? > q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_l > ocal_1x1 > BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html > Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: birding in August? From: Hilary Powers <hilary AT POWERSEDIT.COM> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:46:22 -0700 Ted Floyd wrote: > Hello, BirdChatters. > > I've been enjoying the discussion about birding in August. ... Sure, > it's awesome in southeastern Arizona, as several BirdChatters have > noted. But it's truly exciting pretty much everywhere across the > Lower 48. ... > My guess is there are more birds in North America in August than in > any other month of the year. But not at Lake Merritt in Oakland, California - a bird sanctuary for the last century or so and my favorite stomping grounds. In August, it can offer Canada Geese, and Mallards, and more Canada Geese - though not quite so many as in July, as a lot of the geese that came in on molt migration have departed. By early November, on the other hand, the lake will host a couple of dozen species, including both goldeneyes, half a dozen grebes, and assorted diving and dabbling ducks that summer in and near the Arctic.... -- - Hilary Powers - hilary AT powersedit.com - Oakland CA - - Freelance copyediting and developmental editing - - Author: "Making Word Work for You" - available now - - www.the-efa.org/res/booklets.php - - The edit you want - online, on time, and on target - BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: Re: birding in August? From: Ted Floyd <tedfloyd57 AT HOTMAIL.COM> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:12:58 -0700 Hello, BirdChatters. I've been enjoying the discussion about birding in August. As Gordon Bonnet says: > I know a lot of the local birding activity (I'm in > upstate New York) has died down by August -- picks > up again in mid-September with migration. For sure, that's the conventional wisdom. Over the years, though, I've come to view the month of August as the most exciting in mid-latitude North America. Seriously. Birding in the month of August is, in a word, dynamic. Sure, it's awesome in southeastern Arizona, as several BirdChatters have noted. But it's truly exciting pretty much everywhere across the Lower 48. Here are 5 things that are especially exciting about birding in August: 1. Juveniles. If you want a cutting-edge ID challenge, try recently fledged juveniles. These birds are out of the nest, they can fly, and they're more-or-less independent. Something as "easy" as a Mountain Bluebird or Western Tanager can be surprisingly hard to identify in August. If ID challenges aren't your thing (which is fine), there's the whole other angle of the fascinating biology of juveniles. It is well worth the effort to really pay attention to young Red-winged Blackbirds, Red-eyed Vireos, whatever. 2. Molt. All birds do it, and most North American birds are doing it, to some extent or another, in the month of August. (All of our breeding birds, I believe, have a "prebasic," or fall, molt.) As with juveniles, molt can present both an ID challenge and the opportunity to observe fascinating biology in action. If you want a "point of entry," so to speak, into the world of molt, check out all those male ducks in August. Or how about grebes? I wonder how many U.S. birders are aware that many grebes are flightless--in connection with molt--during much of the summer. I sure didn't know that until fairly recently. 3. Zugunruhe. It's a goofy word, but it's a really interesting phenomenon. The German, translated very loosely, comes out in English to "migratory restlessness." Prior to migration, many birds get fidgety, and this fidgetiness is easy to observe. In Colorado, for example, I've noticed a sharp increase in the number of flight calls given by Swainson's Thrushes and Veeries while still on the breeding grounds--after they've stopped singing, yet prior to migration. The August woods are alive with the flight calls of these and other species getting ready to migrate. 4. Nighttime. Many landbird species are on the move in August--even in July--and you can hear them at night. In Colorado, there are strong nighttime flights in August of Chipping Sparrows, Lark Sparrows, and Yellow Warblers. In fact, we get our heaviest night flights, it seems, in the last week of August, with decent nocturnal passages as early as late July. I love going out on hot August nights and hearing the chips and buzzes of invisible migrants in the dark. 5. Shorebirds! Even for avowed dicky-bird types like myself, the August shorebird flight across North America is a thing of wonder. You can witness this phenomenon practically anywhere: in big cities like New York and Chicago, at our national wildlife refuges, in deserts and grasslands, you name it. Our August shorebird flight has it all: ID challenges, if you want that; great biology for anybody to observe; and always the potential of some outlandish rarity. One final thought, if I may. I guess this would be #6. 6. Lots of birds. My guess is there are more birds in North America in August than in any other month of the year. (Because of all the juveniles; they haven't died yet, as so many will, on fall migration and on the wintering grounds.) Just walk outside your house, wherever it is, and start looking and listening. Birds are conspicuous in August, they're doing fascinating things, and there are so many of them. Ted Floyd tedfloyd57 AT hotmail.com Lafayette, Boulder County, Colorado ------------------------------- Ted Floyd Editor, Birding ------------------------------- Please support the American Birding Association: Click on http://www.goodsearch.com/?charityid=884482 to search the internet. Every search provides support to the ABA's programs in Education, Conservation, and Publications. Please visit the website of the American Birding Association: http://www.aba.org _________________________________________________________________ Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html Subject: RFI: South Africa From: Janet Zinn <Bkbirdr AT AOL.COM> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:37:20 EDT We are looking into a semi-privately guided tour of South Africa for (possibly) November '09. We want a South African company who will tailor our trip to my needs (i.e., equal weight given to both birds and mammals and plenty of time for photography.) Currently we are talking to two different guiding companies: Avian Leisure and Lawson's Birding and Wildlife tours. Both seem great so far, and our decision may end up being based on specific itinerary and price, but generally I am wondering if anyone has travelled with either of these two outfits and can give any feedback, especially as to guide quality. Thanks! BTW, if this comes together, we may also be looking for another like-minded couple to join us. Janet Zinn Brooklyn, NY _jzinn AT jczinn.com_ (mailto:jzinn AT jczinn.com) _www.janetzinnphotography.com_ (http://www.janetzinnphotography.com/) **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377052x1201454391/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) BirdChat Guidelines: http://www.ksu.edu/audubon/chatguidelines.html Archives: http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdchat.html