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Updated on Saturday, October 25 at 04:31 AM EST
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Black Skimmers,©BirdQuest

25 Oct Report of Red-crested Pochards at Hasties Swamp, northern Queensland ["Alans Wildlife Tours" ]
25 Oct Re: RFI - Newcastle [Alan Stuart ]
25 Oct BirdLife Australia Pelagic trips off Eaglehawk Neck Tasmania in 2015 [Rohan Clarke ]
25 Oct Re: Fwd: RE: Errors in statistsic [Laurie Knight ]
25 Oct Fwd: RE: Errors in statistsic [Grahame Rogers ]
24 Oct Re: African Ringneck ["Philip Veerman" ]
24 Oct Bush stone-curlew reintroduced in ACT [David Billinghurst ]
24 Oct Re: African Ringneck [Mike Owen ]
24 Oct Re: Birds in Backyards [Carl Clifford ]
24 Oct Re: African Ringneck [Carl Clifford ]
24 Oct Birds in Backyards [Peter Morgan ]
23 Oct Re: African Ringneck [Nikolas Haass ]
24 Oct Fwd: African Ringneck [Youngs FamilyMail ]
24 Oct Re: African Ringneck [Youngs FamilyMail ]
24 Oct high level rearrangement in IOC 4.3 ["calyptorhynchus ." ]
23 Oct Re: Cannon Netting [Laurie Knight ]
23 Oct RFI Yellow Chats at Port Alma Rd in SE-QLD [Nikolas Haass ]
23 Oct RFI - Newcastle [Thomas Wilson ]
23 Oct Re: Cannon Netting [martin cachard ]
23 Oct Re: Broad-billed Flycatchers [Bill Stent ]
23 Oct Re: Broad-billed Flycatchers ["Alan Gillanders" ]
23 Oct Re: Cannon Netting [Carl Clifford ]
21 Oct Cannon Netting [Frank O'Connor ]
23 Oct The Art of William T Cooper [Carl Clifford ]
23 Oct Re: Broad-billed Flycatchers [martin cachard ]
23 Oct Re: Broad-billed Flycatchers [Marie Tarrant ]
23 Oct Broad-billed Flycatchers [Graeme Chapman ]
22 Oct Powerful and Masked owls. [Göran Engberg ]
22 Oct RFI Roosting owls [Dennis Woodward ]
22 Oct You Yangs. Weebill City. [Russell Woodford ]
22 Oct Freckled Duck, Gate Art and Poetry With a Birding Pal [Chris Shaw ]
21 Oct Save Our Broadwater on the Gold Coast ["Judy Leitch" ]
21 Oct Re: Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW ["Roger Giller" ]
21 Oct Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders? ["Paul Doyle" ]
21 Oct Re: Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy [Laurie Knight ]
21 Oct Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders? [Dominic Funnell ]
21 Oct Re: RFI Cairns - best time to visit? [martin cachard ]
21 Oct Re: Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW [Carl Clifford ]
21 Oct Great customer service - binoculars [Hannah ]
21 Oct Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders? [ ]
21 Oct Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders? [Martin Butterfield ]
21 Oct Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders? [Fiona Anderson ]
21 Oct Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders? [Bill Stent ]
21 Oct RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders? [Dominic Chaplin ]
20 Oct Re: Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW ["Roger Giller" ]
20 Oct RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders? [inger vandyke ]
20 Oct Re: Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy [Tony Ashton ]
20 Oct RFI Cairns - best time to visit? []
20 Oct Re: Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy ["Alec & Catherine Gillespie" ]
20 Oct Last thoughts on Banding ["Geoffrey Allan Jones" ]
20 Oct Re: A Band of Birders & Others [Ian May ]
20 Oct Re: The Atlas and Yet another listing app! [Andrew Silcocks ]
20 Oct Bird Banding [Carl Clifford ]
20 Oct Re: Bird banding [Damien Farine ]
20 Oct Re: Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy [Elliot Leach ]
20 Oct Birdline Australian Capital Territory Weekly Update []
20 Oct Birdline Central & Southern Queensland Weekly Update []
20 Oct Birdline Australia Weekly Update []
20 Oct Bird banding [Graeme Chapman ]
20 Oct Re: A Band of Birders & Others ["Greg and Val Clancy" ]
20 Oct Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy [Andrew Taylor ]
20 Oct Regent honeyeaters [Garry Clark ]
20 Oct Re: A Band of Birders & Others [Damien Farine ]
20 Oct Birdpedia - Australia - Weekly Digest ["Birdpedia - Australia Info" ]
19 Oct Strange Bush Stonecurlew Behaviour ["Alans Wildlife Tours" ]
19 Oct Re: bird call recognition app. [Peter Shute ]
19 Oct Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW [Carl Clifford ]
19 Oct A Band of Birders & Others ["Geoffrey Allan Jones" ]
19 Oct Eastern Whipbird [Chris Shaw ]
19 Oct Cassowaries ["Phil & Sue Gregory" ]
19 Oct Panama Trip 2015 ["Greg Roberts" ]
18 Oct Eaglehawk Neck Pelagics ­ Saturday, 30/08, and Sunday, 31/08/2014 [Nikolas Haass ]
18 Oct White-throated Needletail and Albert''s Lyrebird ["Richard Johnstone" ]
18 Oct Re: bird call recognition app. [Charles ]
18 Oct Re: The Atlas and Yet another listing app! [Michael Tarburton ]
18 Oct Re Banding ["Philip Veerman" ]

Subject: Report of Red-crested Pochards at Hasties Swamp, northern Queensland
From: "Alans Wildlife Tours" <info AT alanswildlifetours.com.au>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 18:57:39 +1000
Greetings,
This morning Peter Lloyd who visits Hasties Swamp every morning reported two 
R-c Pochards. I visited at lunch time and in the late afternoon without finding 
them but you know what Christopher Robin said to Nursey about the dragons, ... 


There were however lots of good birds:-
17 Royal spoonbills
1 Yellow Spoonbill
50+ Pink-eared Duck
17 Freckled Duck
1 Lathams Snipe
7 Glossy Ibis
2 Reed warblers 
20+ Black-winged Stilts
Regards,
Alan

Alan's Wildlife Tours
2 Mather Road
Yungaburra 4884

Phone 07 4095 3784
Mobile 0408 953 786
http://www.alanswildlifetours.com.au/


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Subject: Re: RFI - Newcastle
From: Alan Stuart <alanstuart400 AT gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 12:10:24 +1100
Tom, I understand there is repair work scheduled today for the bridge onto Ash 
Island so you might not be able to get out there. A week or so ago there were 
approx 100 Whiskered Terns on the main ponds plus many Red-necked Avocets and 
Black-winged Stilts plus some Marsh Sandpipers. 


Access to Hexham Swamp is via Woodlands Close, which is only reachable from 
traveling westwards on New England Highway. There is a construction site at 
first, which you need to be escorted through but the security staff are very 
friendly and sometimes can give tips about what birds people have been seeing. 
No one local has reported going out there for a week or so and therefore I'm 
not sure what's around. There were good numbers of Sharp-tailed Sandpipers a 
while ago and probably Whiskered Terns will be there too. 


For other potential sites to visit, go to HBOC's website and download some 
birding routes (see under Publications). 


Alan Stuart

Sent from my phone

> On 23 Oct 2014, at 9:58 pm, Thomas Wilson  
wrote: 

> 
> Hi all
> this Saturday (25 October) I have about 3 hours free in the late afternoon 
before between dropping one of my kids off at an event and fetching them. I'm 
thinking of visiting Ash Island and/or the wader roost at Stockton Bridge 
(although I note that low tide is at 4:15pm so the roost site may be sparsely 
populated). 

> A third option might be Hexham Swamp (which I have read about but have no 
idea how to access it or where to start looking if I do go there). 

> Any other suggestions or particularly interesting birds around any of those 
(or other) sites? 

> Cheers
> Tom Wilson 
>                         
> 
>
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Subject: BirdLife Australia Pelagic trips off Eaglehawk Neck Tasmania in 2015
From: Rohan Clarke <rohan AT wildlifeimages.com.au>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 16:07:23 +1100
Hi All,

Each year since 2010 I've organised 5 or 6 pelagic trips out of 
Eaglehawk Neck, Tasmania. I plan to do the same again in 2015. These 
will operate as Birdlife Australia activities. While we don't insist on 
it, it therefore helps if you are a member of Birdlife Australia.

At present there are trips scheduled for the following dates:

Sunday 15 February 2015
Saturday 18 July and Sunday 19 July 2015
Saturday 12 September and Sunday 13 September 2015

I am currently taking bookings for all of the above if anyone wishes to 
register an interest. As the boat often fills quite rapidly there is a 
waiting list established when a trip is fully booked because, for 
various reasons, we have people who have to pull out. The cost of the 
boat trip is in the order of $125, depending on the number of people on 
the boat - it is dearer if we don't fill the boat as the hire cost is 
divided between the sea-birders. Because participants come from a 
variety of locations and many interstate visitors make a weekend or more 
of it, participants organize their own accommodation and transport to 
Eaglehawk Neck (about an hour from Hobart). The east coast of Tasmania 
is unusual because boat trips get out in weather conditions that would 
be considered extreme in many other places such as Port Fairy/Portland, 
Vic (where I have a bit of experience). The land mass of Tasmania itself 
provides lots of protection for the east coast waters and the boat gets 
out most times - quite safely. If you want to know what birds we see off 
Eaglehawk Neck, trip reports have been consistently posted to 
Birding-Aus. You can search in the archives at 
http://bioacoustics.cse.unsw.edu.au/birding-aus/

Regards,

Rohan

-- 
Rohan Clarke
www.wildlifeimages.com.au

Latest updates
http://www.pbase.com/wildlifeimages/root&view=recent




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Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Errors in statistsic
From: Laurie Knight <l.knight AT optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 10:16:56 +1000
It would be interesting to know what is really behind the decline in Bush 
Thickknees down south. They are doing quite well in Queensland - they are 
regulars in inner Brisbane, and back yards on the Bay Islands, so they can 
handle suburban environments. 


I’ve been watching a nesting pair in the inner city - one chick hatched a few 
days ago, but the adults were staying put, which I guess means there was 
another one yet to hatch. That is interesting, as I would have thought the eggs 
would have hatched around the same time. 


Regards, Laurie.

On 25 Oct 2014, at 6:57 am, Grahame Rogers  wrote:

> FYI
> 
> Regards
> Grahame Rogers
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	RE: Errors in statistsic
> Date: 	Fri, 24 Oct 2014 01:02:15 +0000
> From: 	Stacey Maden 
> To: 	Grahame Rogers 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Grahame,
> 
> Thank you for your email and participation in the Aussie Backyard Bird Count.
> 
> The postcode statistics, unfortunately, aren't entirely correct -- we are 
aware of the issue and we have it flagged to address for next year's Aussie 
Backyard Bird Count. 

> 
> We are also aware of many misidentified birds across Australia, the data will 
be vetted at the end of the event and any obvious mistake will be amended at 
this time. 

> 
> Thanks again for getting in touch.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Stacey
> 
> Stacey Maden| National Events Coordinator
> 
> BirdLife Australia
> Suite 2-05, 60 Leicester Street, Carlton VIC 3053
> T03 9347 0757 ext 253 | F03 9347 9323
> stacey.maden AT birdlife.org.au  | 
birdlife.org.au  

> ABN 75 149 124 774
> 
> 	
> 
> BirdLife Australia logo 
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> Follow BirdlifeOz 
> 
> 	
> 
> 	
> 
> Follow BirdLife Australia's public updates 
 

> 
> *From:*Grahame Rogers
> *Sent:* Thursday, 23 October 2014 11:37 AM
> *To:* Bird Week
> *Subject:* Errors in statistsic
> 
> Hi
> I have submitted 2 ckecklists for a 2HA 20 minute counts of my property in 
Crows Nest Q 4355 

> *My Statistics* shows my data correctly (2 checklists, 20 species, 68 birds) 
, but the *postcode statistics* for my postcode 4355 has 2 check-lists, 10 
species and 57 birds. 

> There are 3 possible wrong IDs: Black Currawong well out of range, and 
Australian Raven and Blue-winged Kookaburra never reliably recorded here. 

> 
> Checking 4352: Halls Babbler well out of range
> Postcode 4350 also has unlikely birds: Black Currawong, Australian Raven, 
Blue-breasted Fairy-wren, Budgerigar, Kimberley Honeyeater. Little Crow 

> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Grahame Rogers
> 
> Aussie Backyard Bird Count  	
> 
> Count me in!
> I want to register for the first ever Aussie Backyard Bird Count 20--26 
October 2014 

> Click here  to register
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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Subject: Fwd: RE: Errors in statistsic
From: Grahame Rogers <gwrogers AT bigpond.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 06:57:14 +1000
FYI

Regards
Grahame Rogers



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	RE: Errors in statistsic
Date: 	Fri, 24 Oct 2014 01:02:15 +0000
From: 	Stacey Maden 
To: 	Grahame Rogers 



Hi Grahame,

Thank you for your email and participation in the Aussie Backyard Bird 
Count.

The postcode statistics, unfortunately, aren't entirely correct -- we 
are aware of the issue and we have it flagged to address for next year's 
Aussie Backyard Bird Count.

We are also aware of many misidentified birds across Australia, the data 
will be vetted at the end of the event and any obvious mistake will be 
amended at this time.

Thanks again for getting in touch.

Kind regards,

Stacey

Stacey Maden| National Events Coordinator

BirdLife Australia
Suite 2-05, 60 Leicester Street, Carlton VIC 3053
T03 9347 0757 ext 253 | F03 9347 9323
stacey.maden AT birdlife.org.au  | 
birdlife.org.au 
ABN 75 149 124 774

	

BirdLife Australia logo 


	

Follow BirdlifeOz 

	

	

Follow BirdLife Australia's public updates 


*From:*Grahame Rogers
*Sent:* Thursday, 23 October 2014 11:37 AM
*To:* Bird Week
*Subject:* Errors in statistsic

Hi
I have submitted 2 ckecklists for a 2HA 20 minute counts of my property 
in Crows Nest Q 4355
*My Statistics* shows my data correctly (2 checklists, 20 species, 68 
birds) , but the *postcode statistics* for my postcode 4355 has 2 
check-lists, 10 species and 57 birds.
There are 3 possible wrong IDs: Black Currawong well out of range, and 
Australian Raven and Blue-winged Kookaburra never reliably recorded here.

Checking 4352: Halls Babbler well out of range
Postcode 4350 also has unlikely birds: Black Currawong, Australian 
Raven, Blue-breasted Fairy-wren, Budgerigar, Kimberley Honeyeater. 
Little Crow

-- 

  

Regards

Grahame Rogers

Aussie Backyard Bird Count  	

Count me in!
I want to register for the first ever Aussie Backyard Bird Count 20--26 
October 2014
Click here  to register





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Subject: Re: African Ringneck
From: "Philip Veerman" <pveerman AT pcug.org.au>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:12:55 +1100
Others have correctly pointed out that these are Asian (not African)
parrots. In answer to: "So I was just wondering if it might be possible for
a tame bird to become acquainted with wild birds? Has anyone heard of this
happening before?' 

Yes that is I suggest typical. I have published on that on page 56 of my
book: "Canberra Birds: A Report on the first 21 years of the Garden Bird
Survey". With this line: "many exotic or native species of escaped or
released pet birds or their progeny, are observed. It is common for escaped
native parrots to associate with similar sized common native species and
they may survive for extended periods." And yes I could have left out the
first word "native" in that last sentence. 

Philip


-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT birding-aus.org] On Behalf Of
Youngs FamilyMail
Sent: Friday, 24 October 2014 8:13 AM
To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] African Ringneck


Hi everyone,

An interesting observation this morning as I was parking my car in Eveleigh,
I spotted an African Ringneck feeding in a small tree with 2 Galahs. The
birds were only about 2 metres away from me, so I got a really good look at
it before it left. The Galah's weren't too fussed with the birds, as all 3
of them flew off together a short time later. It made me wonder whether the
Ringneck had become acquanted with the Galahs, or if it was just coincidence
that those birds were together at that time. So I was just wondering if it
might be possible for a tame bird to become acquainted with wild birds? Has
anyone heard of this happening before?

Regards,
Mark




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Subject: Bush stone-curlew reintroduced in ACT
From: David Billinghurst <david.billinghurst AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:40:37 +1100
 From the ABC website ...

The bush stone-curlew disappeared from Canberra's woodlands more than 40 
years ago, but efforts are underway to bring the locally extinct bird 
back from the brink


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-24/bush-stone-curlew-reintroduced-in-act/5835188 




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Subject: Re: African Ringneck
From: Mike Owen <mowen AT internode.on.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:24:50 +1000
There are no African Ringnecks in Australian aviculture, just the two 
subspecies of Indian Ringneck.

cheers,

Mike Owen


On 24/10/2014 10:27 AM, Carl Clifford wrote:
> Rose-ringed parakeets are very adaptable, I saw many in London in February. 
It was freezing cold, wet and windy, but they seemed happy as sand boys. 

>
> Carl Clifford
>
>
>> On 24 Oct 2014, at 09:35, Nikolas Haass  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> I guess you are talking about Rose-ringed Parakeets Psittacula krameri
>> here? To my knowledge the two most commonly kept subspecies of Rose-ringed
>> Parakeet are P. k. borealis (nw Pakistan to se China and c Burma) and P.
>> k. manillensis (s India, Sri Lanka), whereas the two African subspecies P.
>> k. parvirostris and P. k. krameri are less common in captivity? Do you
>> have evidence that they were 'African Ringnecks' and not 'Indian
>> Ringnecks'? Another Psittacula species commonly kept as a pet in Australia
>> is Alexandrine Parakeet P. eupatria.
>>
>> Both species Rose-ringed Parakeet and Alexandrine Parakeet are highly
>> adaptable and invasive, and hence could provide a huge problem for
>> Australia's avifauna!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Nikolas
>>
>>
>> Nikolas Haass | MD, PhD, FACD
>> Associate Professor; Head, Experimental Melanoma Therapy Group
>> President of the Australasian Society of Dermatology Research (ASDR)
>>
>> The University of Queensland Diamantina Institute
>> Level 6 | Translational Research Institute | 37 Kent Street |
>> Woolloongabba QLD 4102
>>
>> T: +61 (0)7 3443 7087 | M: +61 (0)424 603 579
>> F: +61 (0)7 3443 6966
>> E:  n.haass1 AT uq.edu.au | W: www.di.uq.edu.au ;
>> http://www.di.uq.edu.au/associate-professor-nikolas-haass;
>> http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/people/academics/profiles/nhaass.php;
>> http://asdr.org.au/
>>
>> 
>> ...Turning scientific discoveries into better treatmentsĹ 
>>
>> CRICOS Code 00025B
>>
>> This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private or
>> confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, you must
>> take no action based on it, nor show a copy to anyone. Kindly notify the
>> sender by reply email. Opinions and information in this email which do not
>> relate to the official business of The University of Queensland shall be
>> understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/10/14 7:12 AM, "Youngs FamilyMail" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> An interesting observation this morning as I was parking my car in
>>> Eveleigh, I spotted an African Ringneck feeding in a small tree with 2
>>> Galahs. The birds were only about 2 metres away from me, so I got a really
>>> good look at it before it left. The Galah's weren't too fussed with the
>>> birds, as all 3 of them flew off together a short time later.
>>> It made me wonder whether the Ringneck had become acquanted with the
>>> Galahs, or if it was just coincidence that those birds were together at
>>> that time.
>>> So I was just wondering if it might be possible for a tame bird to become
>>> acquainted with wild birds?
>>> Has anyone heard of this happening before?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>>
Birding-Aus mailing list >>>
Birding-Aus AT birding-aus.org >>>
To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >>>
http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org >>> >> >>
>>
Birding-Aus mailing list >>
Birding-Aus AT birding-aus.org >>
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http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org >> >
>
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Subject: Re: Birds in Backyards
From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:39:14 +1100
Perhaps people should use the old Mk1 notebook and pen to record the sightings 
and then carefully enter the sightings into the app. 


Carl Clifford


> On 24 Oct 2014, at 10:59, Peter Morgan  wrote:
> 
> There has been some comment about glaring errors in lists submitted. Having 
just done one, I can understand that these were most probably unintentional. 
For example, we almost submitted the Forty-spotted Pardalote because that got 
tapped when entering the Spotted Pardalote. Trying to keep up with the caller, 
there were a couple of other mistakes that I had to correct. 

> I checked the postcode 2463 (lower Clarence area, NSW) and found the 
Black-backed Butcherbird and Blue-breasted Fairy Wren. I would suggest these 
were entry errors rather than misidentification or lack of experience (and 
certainly not mischievous!). 

> 
> Just as a matter of interest, a pair of Pacific Baza were observed in our 
twenty minutes. A few years ago, we had a pair nesting on our block, which 
brought three eggs to formed chicks before the nest was blown down in a severe 
storm. This was reported in Australian Field Ornithology, Vol 23, number 3, Sep 
2010. The behaviour this morning was suspicious. Having only arrived back 
yesterday after some months away, we can't suggest anything more on this at the 
moment. 

> 
> Peter and Bev Morgan
> 
> 
> The conservation battle is never finally won; the development battle is.
>                            ~<> NE ESTE FELICEM <>~
> 
> 
> 
>
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Subject: Re: African Ringneck
From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:27:29 +1100
Rose-ringed parakeets are very adaptable, I saw many in London in February. It 
was freezing cold, wet and windy, but they seemed happy as sand boys. 


Carl Clifford


> On 24 Oct 2014, at 09:35, Nikolas Haass  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I guess you are talking about Rose-ringed Parakeets Psittacula krameri
> here? To my knowledge the two most commonly kept subspecies of Rose-ringed
> Parakeet are P. k. borealis (nw Pakistan to se China and c Burma) and P.
> k. manillensis (s India, Sri Lanka), whereas the two African subspecies P.
> k. parvirostris and P. k. krameri are less common in captivity? Do you
> have evidence that they were 'African Ringnecks' and not 'Indian
> Ringnecks'? Another Psittacula species commonly kept as a pet in Australia
> is Alexandrine Parakeet P. eupatria.
> 
> Both species Rose-ringed Parakeet and Alexandrine Parakeet are highly
> adaptable and invasive, and hence could provide a huge problem for
> Australia's avifauna!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Nikolas
> 
> 
> Nikolas Haass | MD, PhD, FACD
> Associate Professor; Head, Experimental Melanoma Therapy Group
> President of the Australasian Society of Dermatology Research (ASDR)
> 
> The University of Queensland Diamantina Institute
> Level 6 | Translational Research Institute | 37 Kent Street |
> Woolloongabba QLD 4102
> 
> T: +61 (0)7 3443 7087 | M: +61 (0)424 603 579
> F: +61 (0)7 3443 6966
> E:  n.haass1 AT uq.edu.au | W: www.di.uq.edu.au ;
> http://www.di.uq.edu.au/associate-professor-nikolas-haass;
> http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/people/academics/profiles/nhaass.php;
> http://asdr.org.au/
> 
> 
> ...Turning scientific discoveries into better treatmentsĹ 
> 
> CRICOS Code 00025B
> 
> This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private or
> confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, you must
> take no action based on it, nor show a copy to anyone. Kindly notify the
> sender by reply email. Opinions and information in this email which do not
> relate to the official business of The University of Queensland shall be
> understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 24/10/14 7:12 AM, "Youngs FamilyMail" 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> An interesting observation this morning as I was parking my car in
>> Eveleigh, I spotted an African Ringneck feeding in a small tree with 2
>> Galahs. The birds were only about 2 metres away from me, so I got a really
>> good look at it before it left. The Galah's weren't too fussed with the
>> birds, as all 3 of them flew off together a short time later.
>> It made me wonder whether the Ringneck had become acquanted with the
>> Galahs, or if it was just coincidence that those birds were together at
>> that time.
>> So I was just wondering if it might be possible for a tame bird to become
>> acquainted with wild birds?
>> Has anyone heard of this happening before?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Mark
>> 
>>
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Birding-Aus AT birding-aus.org >>
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Subject: Birds in Backyards
From: Peter Morgan <nagrompr AT bigpond.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:59:42 +1100
There has been some comment about glaring errors in lists submitted. Having 
just done one, I can understand that these were most probably unintentional. 
For example, we almost submitted the Forty-spotted Pardalote because that got 
tapped when entering the Spotted Pardalote. Trying to keep up with the caller, 
there were a couple of other mistakes that I had to correct. 

I checked the postcode 2463 (lower Clarence area, NSW) and found the 
Black-backed Butcherbird and Blue-breasted Fairy Wren. I would suggest these 
were entry errors rather than misidentification or lack of experience (and 
certainly not mischievous!). 


Just as a matter of interest, a pair of Pacific Baza were observed in our 
twenty minutes. A few years ago, we had a pair nesting on our block, which 
brought three eggs to formed chicks before the nest was blown down in a severe 
storm. This was reported in Australian Field Ornithology, Vol 23, number 3, Sep 
2010. The behaviour this morning was suspicious. Having only arrived back 
yesterday after some months away, we can't suggest anything more on this at the 
moment. 


Peter and Bev Morgan


The conservation battle is never finally won; the development battle is.
                            ~<> NE ESTE FELICEM <>~




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Subject: Re: African Ringneck
From: Nikolas Haass <n.haass1 AT uq.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 22:35:12 +0000
Hi Mark,

I guess you are talking about Rose-ringed Parakeets Psittacula krameri
here? To my knowledge the two most commonly kept subspecies of Rose-ringed
Parakeet are P. k. borealis (nw Pakistan to se China and c Burma) and P.
k. manillensis (s India, Sri Lanka), whereas the two African subspecies P.
k. parvirostris and P. k. krameri are less common in captivity? Do you
have evidence that they were 'African Ringnecks' and not 'Indian
Ringnecks'? Another Psittacula species commonly kept as a pet in Australia
is Alexandrine Parakeet P. eupatria.

Both species Rose-ringed Parakeet and Alexandrine Parakeet are highly
adaptable and invasive, and hence could provide a huge problem for
Australia's avifauna!

Best wishes,

Nikolas


Nikolas Haass | MD, PhD, FACD
Associate Professor; Head, Experimental Melanoma Therapy Group
President of the Australasian Society of Dermatology Research (ASDR)
 
The University of Queensland Diamantina Institute
Level 6 | Translational Research Institute | 37 Kent Street |
Woolloongabba QLD 4102
 
T: +61 (0)7 3443 7087 | M: +61 (0)424 603 579
F: +61 (0)7 3443 6966
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http://www.di.uq.edu.au/associate-professor-nikolas-haass;
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...Turning scientific discoveries into better treatmentsŠ
 
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On 24/10/14 7:12 AM, "Youngs FamilyMail" 
wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>
>An interesting observation this morning as I was parking my car in
>Eveleigh, I spotted an African Ringneck feeding in a small tree with 2
>Galahs. The birds were only about 2 metres away from me, so I got a really
>good look at it before it left. The Galah's weren't too fussed with the
>birds, as all 3 of them flew off together a short time later.
>It made me wonder whether the Ringneck had become acquanted with the
>Galahs, or if it was just coincidence that those birds were together at
>that time.
>So I was just wondering if it might be possible for a tame bird to become
>acquainted with wild birds?
>Has anyone heard of this happening before?
>
>Regards,
>Mark
>
>
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Subject: Fwd: African Ringneck
From: Youngs FamilyMail <youngsfamilymail AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:06:43 +1100
FYI,

I made a mistake in my previous email. It was an Alexandrine Parrot, due to
it's pinkish shoulders, not an African Ringneck.

Regards,
Mark
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Youngs FamilyMail 
Date: Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: African Ringneck
To: "birding-aus AT birding-aus.org" 


Hi everyone,

An interesting observation this morning as I was parking my car in
Eveleigh, I spotted an African Ringneck feeding in a small tree with 2
Galahs. The birds were only about 2 metres away from me, so I got a really
good look at it before it left. The Galah's weren't too fussed with the
birds, as all 3 of them flew off together a short time later.
It made me wonder whether the Ringneck had become acquanted with the
Galahs, or if it was just coincidence that those birds were together at
that time.
So I was just wondering if it might be possible for a tame bird to become
acquainted with wild birds?
Has anyone heard of this happening before?

Regards,
Mark


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Subject: Re: African Ringneck
From: Youngs FamilyMail <youngsfamilymail AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 08:12:52 +1100
Hi everyone,

An interesting observation this morning as I was parking my car in
Eveleigh, I spotted an African Ringneck feeding in a small tree with 2
Galahs. The birds were only about 2 metres away from me, so I got a really
good look at it before it left. The Galah's weren't too fussed with the
birds, as all 3 of them flew off together a short time later.
It made me wonder whether the Ringneck had become acquanted with the
Galahs, or if it was just coincidence that those birds were together at
that time.
So I was just wondering if it might be possible for a tame bird to become
acquainted with wild birds?
Has anyone heard of this happening before?

Regards,
Mark


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Subject: high level rearrangement in IOC 4.3
From: "calyptorhynchus ." <calyptorhynchus AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 08:24:05 +1100
I see that IOC 4.3 has moved the parrots to the end of the non-passerines,
and has detached the falcons from the rest of the birds of prey and located
them before the parrots.

A notable ornithologist of an earlier generation who lived in Canberra,
Jerry van Tets, always maintained from his anatomical studies that parrots
and falcons were closely related and that both were close to the
passerines. I think he would have been pleased at this new arrangements of
the bird families.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Frederick_van_Tets

-- 
John Leonard
Canberra


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Subject: Re: Cannon Netting
From: Laurie Knight <l.knight AT optusnet.com.au>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:41:59 +1000
Thanks Frank for providing some considered perspective on the issue of banding. 


I find it interesting when people talk stridently about the negatives of 
something (in this case bird studies) they frequently downplay other factors 
that have much greater impacts. Yes, some birds are harmed by banders and wind 
farms, but orders of magnitude more are killed by cats, cars, buildings, 
habitat destruction. Why do people focus on the 0.0001 percent? 


Second, there is the issue of purpose. The purpose of great majority of bird 
banding is to generate data that can be used to understand the birds and assist 
their conservation. Authorised banding is done for a purpose, not for casual 
enjoyment. 


Third, bird banders are blamed for mortalities etc. However, we don’t hear 
drivers being blamed for the birds they kill on the highway, nor building 
owners for the birds killed as the result of the location, design and operation 
of their structures. 


Bird banding is a complex issue, and it would be useful if people could apply a 
bit of nuanced perspective rather than flying off at the handle. 


Regards, Laurie.


On 21 Oct 2014, at 10:42 pm, Frank O'Connor  wrote:

> 
> It still annoys me when I read criticisms of cannon netting.
> 
> I have been a member of 15 or more AWSG North West Wader Expeditions over the 
past 20 years as a (paying) volunteer, and I certainly plan to join future 
expeditions when I am available. I am not a bander. I am not the one who 
summarises the data and publishes papers. But every expedition I see the 
dedication of the people who are involved full time on the study and 
conservation of shorebirds. I join each expedition as an assistant, often 
making the leg flags, as a spotter in the hide and often the leader of a 
process team. I learn more about shorebirds on every expedition that I join. 
The shorebird families are always high on my want to see list when I travel 
overseas. 

> 
> I have seen many important and useful outcomes from the expeditions. A few 
are : 

> 






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Subject: RFI Yellow Chats at Port Alma Rd in SE-QLD
From: Nikolas Haass <n.haass1 AT uq.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:13:21 +0000
Hi,

Has anyone seen any Yellow Chats at this known spot within the last two weeks? 
I was wondering if they have dispersed already? 


Thanks!

Nikolas

Nikolas Haass | MD, PhD, FACD
Associate Professor; Head, Experimental Melanoma Therapy Group
President of the Australasian Society of Dermatology Research (ASDR)

The University of Queensland Diamantina Institute
Level 6 | Translational Research Institute | 37 Kent Street | Woolloongabba QLD 
4102 


T: +61 (0)7 3443 7087 | M: +61 (0)424 603 579
F: +61 (0)7 3443 6966
E: n.haass1 AT uq.edu.au | W: 
www.di.uq.edu.au; 
http://www.di.uq.edu.au/associate-professor-nikolas-haass; 
http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/people/academics/profiles/nhaass.php; 
http://asdr.org.au/ 


[cid:image001.png AT 01CCAA73.229EB890]
...Turning scientific discoveries into better treatments…

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Subject: RFI - Newcastle
From: Thomas Wilson <wilsonsinoz AT optusnet.com.au>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:58:41 +1100
Hi all
this Saturday (25 October) I have about 3 hours free in the late afternoon 
before between dropping one of my kids off at an event and fetching them. I'm 
thinking of visiting Ash Island and/or the wader roost at Stockton Bridge 
(although I note that low tide is at 4:15pm so the roost site may be sparsely 
populated). 

A third option might be Hexham Swamp (which I have read about but have no idea 
how to access it or where to start looking if I do go there). 

Any other suggestions or particularly interesting birds around any of those (or 
other) sites? 

Cheers
Tom Wilson 
 		 	   		  


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Subject: Re: Cannon Netting
From: martin cachard <mcachard AT hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:07:56 +1100
well said Frank!! 
& beautifully written too I might add...
 
cheers,
martin cachard,
cairns
 
 
> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:42:53 +0800
> To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
> From: foconnor AT iinet.net.au
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Cannon Netting
> 
> 
> It still annoys me when I read criticisms of cannon netting.
> 
> I have been a member of 15 or more AWSG North West Wader Expeditions 
> over the past 20 years as a (paying) volunteer, and I certainly plan 
> to join future expeditions when I am available.  I am not a 
> bander.  I am not the one who summarises the data and publishes 
> papers.  But every expedition I see the dedication of the people who 
> are involved full time on the study and conservation of 
> shorebirds.  I join each expedition as an assistant, often making the 
> leg flags, as a spotter in the hide and often the leader of a process 
> team. I learn more about shorebirds on every expedition that I 
> join.  The shorebird families are always high on my want to see list 
> when I travel overseas.
> 
> I have seen many important and useful outcomes from the expeditions. 
> A few are :
> 
> 1. Satellite Tracking of Bar-tailed Godwits.  I admit that I was 
> shocked when I understood how this was done.  The waders are caught 
> in cannon nets (this was not a significant threat and I was part of 
> the team that made the catch), but then the birds were taken back to 
> the Broome Bird Observatory where they were surgically implanted with 
> the transmitters, with the aerial protruding from the tail.  Surely 
> this can't be good?  Well all Bar-tailed Godwits survived and were 
> released, transmitted their data for a year or more (until the 
> battery gave up) giving important insights into the behaviour and 
> movement of these birds (local movements, movements within WA, 
> stopovers for some, feeding stopovers, breeding areas, post breeding 
> areas), and they were all back in Broome the next year.  This was 
> after this was first done in Alaska, and then in New Zealand so the 
> people involved had experience with how to look after the 
> birds.  This amount of new information learnt could not have been 
> achieved in any other way.
> 
> 2. Satellite Tracking of Little Curlews.  Similar to the above, but 
> the satellite transmitters were attached by harness.  Very little 
> information was previously learnt about this species by band and flag 
> sightings (mainly local movements) because they are not monitored on 
> the rest of their migration cycle.  So it was not well known where 
> they stopped over, where they bred, etc.  This information was 
> disseminated very soon after the satellite data was processed every 
> few days, and it was a major part of BirdLife Australia's event on 
> increasing the awareness of shorebirds in April this year.
> 
> 3. Geolocators.  This is fascinating.  A small one gram device is 
> attached to a large leg flag.  It records the location of the bird at 
> defined periods for as long as the battery lasts.  The difference 
> from the transmitters is that you must recatch the bird to retrieve 
> the geolocator to analyse the data. So this has been used on birds 
> that have a high site fidelity such as Ruddy Turnstone, Greater Sand 
> Plover and to a lesser extent Red Knot and Great Knot.  The results 
> are amazing and show the migration paths and breeding areas.  Some 
> birds have had a second geolocator attached after the first has been 
> retrieved, and this allows two years of data to be compared for the 
> same individual.  Do they use the same migration path?  Do they use 
> the same stopover site to refuel? etc, etc.
> 
> 4. Colour Bands.  I admit that I had doubts about the usefulness of 
> this technique.  As part of the Global Flyway Network project, 
> Bar-tailed Godwits, Great Knots and Red Knots were banded with four 
> colour bands (two each leg), one yellow leg flag (YLF) and the metal 
> band.  We had been using plain YLFs, and then yellow engraved leg 
> flags (ELFs) and I thought that this was enough to read the flags to 
> get the information they wanted.  Then as part of the expedition we 
> spent a day searching for and recording the ELFs and colour bands in 
> Roebuck Bay.  The colour bands are much much easier to read.  You can 
> see them from any angle.  You can see then through the legs of other 
> birds.  You can see them from further away.  ELFs must be birds in 
> the open and the flag needs to be side on and you need to be 
> relatively close to the bird.  Three or more people through the GFN 
> then spend six to eight weeks each year on the feeding sites at the 
> Yellow Sea monitoring the birds passing through.  This gives enormous 
> information about how and where these birds feed.  It shows that you 
> can't just protect one important area.  Birds move between them, and 
> so you need to protect them all.  It gives information on 
> mortality.  It gives information on population sizes.  It shows local 
> movement within Australia, giving information about how some sites 
> interconnect.
> 
> This combination of six items on a bird is the most that I am aware 
> of.  As far as I am aware the most that are used on the smaller 
> waders (including Curlew Sandpipers) are two legs flags and a metal 
> band.  So when I hear hearsay reports of them having seven items, I 
> want to see the evidence.  Date, place, colours and preferably a 
> photo.  But each time this claim is made, no evidence is produced. So 
> sorry. I don't believe it.
> 
> Without this specific data on the movement of individual birds, 
> governments won't listen.  This data from leg flags and colour bands 
> puts more pressure on the governments in the flyway to uphold their 
> obligations under the various migratory bird agreements.
> 
> 5. Cannon Netting.  The teams and the procedures are very experienced 
> and detailed now.  Yes, unfortunately there are still a few birds 
> injured at the time of firing.  And this hurts the members of the 
> team.  These  casualties are reported on the catch summary 
> sheets.  The birds are frozen, and sent to the WA Museum.  They can't 
> hide the casualties.  There are too many volunteers.  I understand 
> that the 'acceptable' casualty rate is 1%.  Maybe early on this 
> happened.  But casualties are uncommon and we usually achieve 0.2 to 
> 0.3% over the course of a three week expedition (about 4,000 
> birds).  With the new small mesh nets, the birds are very quickly 
> removed from the nets and put in keeping cages covered by shade 
> cloth.  Under the hot conditions at Broome, we need to process and 
> release the birds within about three hours of the catch.  This is 
> always achieved.  Why are the birds caught?  Our first goal each year 
> is to catch enough of 10 key species to be able to estimate the 
> breeding success (by determining the percentage of juveniles in the 
> population).  This data is important in monitoring rises and 
> especially falls in the populations.  There is a fairly high 
> recapture rate.  These birds give information about the age 
> distribution of the population and allow better estimations of the 
> total population.  They give information about the movement of the 
> birds.  For some species, it shows that they are quite highly site specific.
> 
> 6. Blood Samples.  I still have some reservations about this.  Some 
> birds do struggle when they are released, and do need to be kept 
> longer to recover.  The blood samples are taken by AQIS for 
> monitoring avian diseases in Australia.  Yes, cloacal swipes are also 
> taken.  During the hysteria of the period when bird flu was an issue, 
> these samples showed that this was not an issue for Australia.  There 
> are a few casualties of birds that have been bled.  Even though this 
> is not directly due to the normal cannon netting process, they are 
> included as casualties in the catch report.  The government would 
> want some sort of a measure anyway on avian diseases, so it is better 
> that the testing is done this way, than through other more drastic 
> methods one could think of. Only a small percentage of the catch is 
> sampled, and samples are taken on only a few of the catches in 
> Broome. Blood sampling in the past has also been used for DNA 
> analysis, sex determination and other purposes.
> 
> 7. Isotopic analysis of Feathers.  This is fascinating.  If you know 
> when during the migration cycle that a bird grows a particular 
> feather (say a secondary covert), then by sampling that feather you 
> can determine to a large extent where the bird was at that 
> time.  This adds to the information from other sources of how birds 
> move and where they stopover.
> 
> 8. Declines in Populations.  It is claimed that the declines are due 
> to cannon netting.  But this is demonstrably untrue.  The age 
> analysis of the birds caught show this.  The Shorebirds 2020 surveys 
> at sites where there is no cannon netting show this, and the number 
> of flagged birds in these areas are very low.  The birds caught show 
> a high site fidelity.  But the people making the claims do not read 
> the papers, or the survey analysis.  I guess the less you know, then 
> the more things that you can imagine might happen, even if they have 
> already been proven to be untrue.
> 
> 9. Raptors.  It is true that some birds in the past have been caught 
> by raptors as they are released.  But the procedures have been 
> changed and there were none on last year's expedition.  There are 
> lookouts posted for raptors.  Birds are released in groups rather 
> than individually if there is any risk of raptors being around.  It 
> is everyone's responsibility to lookout for raptors. I don't believe 
> that this is an issue any more.
> 
> 
> Where do I learn about these things?  By being a participant in the 
> expeditions.  By being a member of the AWSG.  It is sent by 
> email.  It is published in Stilt and Tattler (published by the 
> AWSG).  It is published in international journals.  It is on the AWSG 
> web site.  It is disseminated at shorebird conferences.  Some of it 
> is communicated on the GFN web site.  This information and much more 
> is available through cannon netting, and it does further the 
> conservation of these species.
> 
> There are vacancies for next year's expedition.  You do not need to 
> be a member of the AWSG.  It is not a holiday!  There are early 
> starts, heat, humidity, lots of other tasks.  But there is some time 
> for general birding.  We look for a team of 23 to 25 people so we can 
> safely catch 250 to 300 birds in a catch.  If we catch less then we 
> fully process each bird (band, flag, age, moult, weight, wing length, 
> etc). If we catch more then we reduce the amount of processing so 
> that the birds are released well before the three hour limit (at 
> least band, flag, age).   There are tasks for people of all levels of 
> experience and fitness.
> 
> The people involved in cannon netting care more about these birds 
> than anyone, and do everything they can to promote the conservation 
> of these species. They put their time into it.  It is grossly unfair 
> for them to be criticised.
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Frank O'Connor                          Birding WA 
> http://birdingwa.iinet.net.au
> Phone : (08) 9386 5694               Email : foconnor AT iinet.net.au  
> 
> 
> 
>
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Subject: Re: Broad-billed Flycatchers
From: Bill Stent <billstent AT gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:33:36 +1100
I noticed that one myself.  It's remarkable.

Please tell me that happened by accident or after a long wait, and that the 
Grasswren isn't stuffed!!

Congratulations, Graeme.  If I only took one shot ever like that I'd be a 
happy man.

Bill


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Alan Gillanders" 
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 2:29 PM
To: "Graeme Chapman" ; 

Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Broad-billed Flycatchers

> This is a great shot but I just love the Grasswren one nearby.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Alan's Wildlife Tours
> 2 Mather Road
> Yungaburra 4884
>
> Phone 07 4095 3784
> Mobile 0408 953 786
> http://www.alanswildlifetours.com.au/
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Graeme Chapman
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 08:32 AM
> To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Broad-billed Flycatchers
>
> On a recent trip to the gulf I finally succeeded in getting what I 
> consider to be the archetypal image of a male Broad-billed Flycatcher 
> showing his graduated tail - taken on Manangoura Station just east of 
> Borroloola, a great place to get away from the ever increasing hordes.( 
> see www.graemechapman.com.au/library/leprints.php?pg=16)
> 
>
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Subject: Re: Broad-billed Flycatchers
From: "Alan Gillanders" <alan AT alanswildlifetours.com.au>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:29:23 +1000
This is a great shot but I just love the Grasswren one nearby.
Alan




Alan's Wildlife Tours
2 Mather Road
Yungaburra 4884

Phone 07 4095 3784
Mobile 0408 953 786
http://www.alanswildlifetours.com.au/
-----Original Message----- 
From: Graeme Chapman
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 08:32 AM
To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Broad-billed Flycatchers

On a recent trip to the gulf I finally succeeded in getting what I consider 
to be the archetypal image of a male Broad-billed Flycatcher showing his 
graduated tail - taken on Manangoura Station just east of Borroloola, a 
great place to get away from the ever increasing hordes.( see 
www.graemechapman.com.au/library/leprints.php?pg=16)


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Subject: Re: Cannon Netting
From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:11:09 +1100
Well said, Frank.

Carl Clifford



> On 21 Oct 2014, at 23:42, Frank O'Connor  wrote:
> 
> 
> It still annoys me when I read criticisms of cannon netting.
> 
> I have been a member of 15 or more AWSG North West Wader Expeditions over the 
past 20 years as a (paying) volunteer, and I certainly plan to join future 
expeditions when I am available. I am not a bander. I am not the one who 
summarises the data and publishes papers. But every expedition I see the 
dedication of the people who are involved full time on the study and 
conservation of shorebirds. I join each expedition as an assistant, often 
making the leg flags, as a spotter in the hide and often the leader of a 
process team. I learn more about shorebirds on every expedition that I join. 
The shorebird families are always high on my want to see list when I travel 
overseas. 

> 
> I have seen many important and useful outcomes from the expeditions. A few 
are : 

> 
> 1. Satellite Tracking of Bar-tailed Godwits. I admit that I was shocked when 
I understood how this was done. The waders are caught in cannon nets (this was 
not a significant threat and I was part of the team that made the catch), but 
then the birds were taken back to the Broome Bird Observatory where they were 
surgically implanted with the transmitters, with the aerial protruding from the 
tail. Surely this can't be good? Well all Bar-tailed Godwits survived and were 
released, transmitted their data for a year or more (until the battery gave up) 
giving important insights into the behaviour and movement of these birds (local 
movements, movements within WA, stopovers for some, feeding stopovers, breeding 
areas, post breeding areas), and they were all back in Broome the next year. 
This was after this was first done in Alaska, and then in New Zealand so the 
people involved had experience with how to look after the birds. This amount of 
new information learnt could not have been achieved in any other way. 

> 
> 2. Satellite Tracking of Little Curlews. Similar to the above, but the 
satellite transmitters were attached by harness. Very little information was 
previously learnt about this species by band and flag sightings (mainly local 
movements) because they are not monitored on the rest of their migration cycle. 
So it was not well known where they stopped over, where they bred, etc. This 
information was disseminated very soon after the satellite data was processed 
every few days, and it was a major part of BirdLife Australia's event on 
increasing the awareness of shorebirds in April this year. 

> 
> 3. Geolocators. This is fascinating. A small one gram device is attached to a 
large leg flag. It records the location of the bird at defined periods for as 
long as the battery lasts. The difference from the transmitters is that you 
must recatch the bird to retrieve the geolocator to analyse the data. So this 
has been used on birds that have a high site fidelity such as Ruddy Turnstone, 
Greater Sand Plover and to a lesser extent Red Knot and Great Knot. The results 
are amazing and show the migration paths and breeding areas. Some birds have 
had a second geolocator attached after the first has been retrieved, and this 
allows two years of data to be compared for the same individual. Do they use 
the same migration path? Do they use the same stopover site to refuel? etc, 
etc. 

> 
> 4. Colour Bands. I admit that I had doubts about the usefulness of this 
technique. As part of the Global Flyway Network project, Bar-tailed Godwits, 
Great Knots and Red Knots were banded with four colour bands (two each leg), 
one yellow leg flag (YLF) and the metal band. We had been using plain YLFs, and 
then yellow engraved leg flags (ELFs) and I thought that this was enough to 
read the flags to get the information they wanted. Then as part of the 
expedition we spent a day searching for and recording the ELFs and colour bands 
in Roebuck Bay. The colour bands are much much easier to read. You can see them 
from any angle. You can see then through the legs of other birds. You can see 
them from further away. ELFs must be birds in the open and the flag needs to be 
side on and you need to be relatively close to the bird. Three or more people 
through the GFN then spend six to eight weeks each year on the feeding sites at 
the Yellow Sea monitoring the birds passing through. This gives enormous 
information about how and where these birds feed. It shows that you can't just 
protect one important area. Birds move between them, and so you need to protect 
them all. It gives information on mortality. It gives information on population 
sizes. It shows local movement within Australia, giving information about how 
some sites interconnect. 

> 
> This combination of six items on a bird is the most that I am aware of. As 
far as I am aware the most that are used on the smaller waders (including 
Curlew Sandpipers) are two legs flags and a metal band. So when I hear hearsay 
reports of them having seven items, I want to see the evidence. Date, place, 
colours and preferably a photo. But each time this claim is made, no evidence 
is produced. So sorry. I don't believe it. 

> 
> Without this specific data on the movement of individual birds, governments 
won't listen. This data from leg flags and colour bands puts more pressure on 
the governments in the flyway to uphold their obligations under the various 
migratory bird agreements. 

> 
> 5. Cannon Netting. The teams and the procedures are very experienced and 
detailed now. Yes, unfortunately there are still a few birds injured at the 
time of firing. And this hurts the members of the team. These casualties are 
reported on the catch summary sheets. The birds are frozen, and sent to the WA 
Museum. They can't hide the casualties. There are too many volunteers. I 
understand that the 'acceptable' casualty rate is 1%. Maybe early on this 
happened. But casualties are uncommon and we usually achieve 0.2 to 0.3% over 
the course of a three week expedition (about 4,000 birds). With the new small 
mesh nets, the birds are very quickly removed from the nets and put in keeping 
cages covered by shade cloth. Under the hot conditions at Broome, we need to 
process and release the birds within about three hours of the catch. This is 
always achieved. Why are the birds caught? Our first goal each year is to catch 
enough of 10 key species to be able to estimate the breeding success (by 
determining the percentage of juveniles in the population). This data is 
important in monitoring rises and especially falls in the populations. There is 
a fairly high recapture rate. These birds give information about the age 
distribution of the population and allow better estimations of the total 
population. They give information about the movement of the birds. For some 
species, it shows that they are quite highly site specific. 

> 
> 6. Blood Samples. I still have some reservations about this. Some birds do 
struggle when they are released, and do need to be kept longer to recover. The 
blood samples are taken by AQIS for monitoring avian diseases in Australia. 
Yes, cloacal swipes are also taken. During the hysteria of the period when bird 
flu was an issue, these samples showed that this was not an issue for 
Australia. There are a few casualties of birds that have been bled. Even though 
this is not directly due to the normal cannon netting process, they are 
included as casualties in the catch report. The government would want some sort 
of a measure anyway on avian diseases, so it is better that the testing is done 
this way, than through other more drastic methods one could think of. Only a 
small percentage of the catch is sampled, and samples are taken on only a few 
of the catches in Broome. Blood sampling in the past has also been used for DNA 
analysis, sex determination and other purposes. 

> 
> 7. Isotopic analysis of Feathers. This is fascinating. If you know when 
during the migration cycle that a bird grows a particular feather (say a 
secondary covert), then by sampling that feather you can determine to a large 
extent where the bird was at that time. This adds to the information from other 
sources of how birds move and where they stopover. 

> 
> 8. Declines in Populations. It is claimed that the declines are due to cannon 
netting. But this is demonstrably untrue. The age analysis of the birds caught 
show this. The Shorebirds 2020 surveys at sites where there is no cannon 
netting show this, and the number of flagged birds in these areas are very low. 
The birds caught show a high site fidelity. But the people making the claims do 
not read the papers, or the survey analysis. I guess the less you know, then 
the more things that you can imagine might happen, even if they have already 
been proven to be untrue. 

> 
> 9. Raptors. It is true that some birds in the past have been caught by 
raptors as they are released. But the procedures have been changed and there 
were none on last year's expedition. There are lookouts posted for raptors. 
Birds are released in groups rather than individually if there is any risk of 
raptors being around. It is everyone's responsibility to lookout for raptors. I 
don't believe that this is an issue any more. 

> 
> 
> Where do I learn about these things? By being a participant in the 
expeditions. By being a member of the AWSG. It is sent by email. It is 
published in Stilt and Tattler (published by the AWSG). It is published in 
international journals. It is on the AWSG web site. It is disseminated at 
shorebird conferences. Some of it is communicated on the GFN web site. This 
information and much more is available through cannon netting, and it does 
further the conservation of these species. 

> 
> There are vacancies for next year's expedition. You do not need to be a 
member of the AWSG. It is not a holiday! There are early starts, heat, 
humidity, lots of other tasks. But there is some time for general birding. We 
look for a team of 23 to 25 people so we can safely catch 250 to 300 birds in a 
catch. If we catch less then we fully process each bird (band, flag, age, 
moult, weight, wing length, etc). If we catch more then we reduce the amount of 
processing so that the birds are released well before the three hour limit (at 
least band, flag, age). There are tasks for people of all levels of experience 
and fitness. 

> 
> The people involved in cannon netting care more about these birds than 
anyone, and do everything they can to promote the conservation of these 
species. They put their time into it. It is grossly unfair for them to be 
criticised. 

> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Frank O'Connor Birding WA http://birdingwa.iinet.net.au 

> Phone : (08) 9386 5694               Email : foconnor AT iinet.net.au  
> 
> 
>
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Subject: Cannon Netting
From: Frank O'Connor <foconnor AT iinet.net.au>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:42:53 +0800
It still annoys me when I read criticisms of cannon netting.

I have been a member of 15 or more AWSG North West Wader Expeditions 
over the past 20 years as a (paying) volunteer, and I certainly plan 
to join future expeditions when I am available.  I am not a 
bander.  I am not the one who summarises the data and publishes 
papers.  But every expedition I see the dedication of the people who 
are involved full time on the study and conservation of 
shorebirds.  I join each expedition as an assistant, often making the 
leg flags, as a spotter in the hide and often the leader of a process 
team. I learn more about shorebirds on every expedition that I 
join.  The shorebird families are always high on my want to see list 
when I travel overseas.

I have seen many important and useful outcomes from the expeditions. 
A few are :

1. Satellite Tracking of Bar-tailed Godwits.  I admit that I was 
shocked when I understood how this was done.  The waders are caught 
in cannon nets (this was not a significant threat and I was part of 
the team that made the catch), but then the birds were taken back to 
the Broome Bird Observatory where they were surgically implanted with 
the transmitters, with the aerial protruding from the tail.  Surely 
this can't be good?  Well all Bar-tailed Godwits survived and were 
released, transmitted their data for a year or more (until the 
battery gave up) giving important insights into the behaviour and 
movement of these birds (local movements, movements within WA, 
stopovers for some, feeding stopovers, breeding areas, post breeding 
areas), and they were all back in Broome the next year.  This was 
after this was first done in Alaska, and then in New Zealand so the 
people involved had experience with how to look after the 
birds.  This amount of new information learnt could not have been 
achieved in any other way.

2. Satellite Tracking of Little Curlews.  Similar to the above, but 
the satellite transmitters were attached by harness.  Very little 
information was previously learnt about this species by band and flag 
sightings (mainly local movements) because they are not monitored on 
the rest of their migration cycle.  So it was not well known where 
they stopped over, where they bred, etc.  This information was 
disseminated very soon after the satellite data was processed every 
few days, and it was a major part of BirdLife Australia's event on 
increasing the awareness of shorebirds in April this year.

3. Geolocators.  This is fascinating.  A small one gram device is 
attached to a large leg flag.  It records the location of the bird at 
defined periods for as long as the battery lasts.  The difference 
from the transmitters is that you must recatch the bird to retrieve 
the geolocator to analyse the data. So this has been used on birds 
that have a high site fidelity such as Ruddy Turnstone, Greater Sand 
Plover and to a lesser extent Red Knot and Great Knot.  The results 
are amazing and show the migration paths and breeding areas.  Some 
birds have had a second geolocator attached after the first has been 
retrieved, and this allows two years of data to be compared for the 
same individual.  Do they use the same migration path?  Do they use 
the same stopover site to refuel? etc, etc.

4. Colour Bands.  I admit that I had doubts about the usefulness of 
this technique.  As part of the Global Flyway Network project, 
Bar-tailed Godwits, Great Knots and Red Knots were banded with four 
colour bands (two each leg), one yellow leg flag (YLF) and the metal 
band.  We had been using plain YLFs, and then yellow engraved leg 
flags (ELFs) and I thought that this was enough to read the flags to 
get the information they wanted.  Then as part of the expedition we 
spent a day searching for and recording the ELFs and colour bands in 
Roebuck Bay.  The colour bands are much much easier to read.  You can 
see them from any angle.  You can see then through the legs of other 
birds.  You can see them from further away.  ELFs must be birds in 
the open and the flag needs to be side on and you need to be 
relatively close to the bird.  Three or more people through the GFN 
then spend six to eight weeks each year on the feeding sites at the 
Yellow Sea monitoring the birds passing through.  This gives enormous 
information about how and where these birds feed.  It shows that you 
can't just protect one important area.  Birds move between them, and 
so you need to protect them all.  It gives information on 
mortality.  It gives information on population sizes.  It shows local 
movement within Australia, giving information about how some sites 
interconnect.

This combination of six items on a bird is the most that I am aware 
of.  As far as I am aware the most that are used on the smaller 
waders (including Curlew Sandpipers) are two legs flags and a metal 
band.  So when I hear hearsay reports of them having seven items, I 
want to see the evidence.  Date, place, colours and preferably a 
photo.  But each time this claim is made, no evidence is produced. So 
sorry. I don't believe it.

Without this specific data on the movement of individual birds, 
governments won't listen.  This data from leg flags and colour bands 
puts more pressure on the governments in the flyway to uphold their 
obligations under the various migratory bird agreements.

5. Cannon Netting.  The teams and the procedures are very experienced 
and detailed now.  Yes, unfortunately there are still a few birds 
injured at the time of firing.  And this hurts the members of the 
team.  These  casualties are reported on the catch summary 
sheets.  The birds are frozen, and sent to the WA Museum.  They can't 
hide the casualties.  There are too many volunteers.  I understand 
that the 'acceptable' casualty rate is 1%.  Maybe early on this 
happened.  But casualties are uncommon and we usually achieve 0.2 to 
0.3% over the course of a three week expedition (about 4,000 
birds).  With the new small mesh nets, the birds are very quickly 
removed from the nets and put in keeping cages covered by shade 
cloth.  Under the hot conditions at Broome, we need to process and 
release the birds within about three hours of the catch.  This is 
always achieved.  Why are the birds caught?  Our first goal each year 
is to catch enough of 10 key species to be able to estimate the 
breeding success (by determining the percentage of juveniles in the 
population).  This data is important in monitoring rises and 
especially falls in the populations.  There is a fairly high 
recapture rate.  These birds give information about the age 
distribution of the population and allow better estimations of the 
total population.  They give information about the movement of the 
birds.  For some species, it shows that they are quite highly site specific.

6. Blood Samples.  I still have some reservations about this.  Some 
birds do struggle when they are released, and do need to be kept 
longer to recover.  The blood samples are taken by AQIS for 
monitoring avian diseases in Australia.  Yes, cloacal swipes are also 
taken.  During the hysteria of the period when bird flu was an issue, 
these samples showed that this was not an issue for Australia.  There 
are a few casualties of birds that have been bled.  Even though this 
is not directly due to the normal cannon netting process, they are 
included as casualties in the catch report.  The government would 
want some sort of a measure anyway on avian diseases, so it is better 
that the testing is done this way, than through other more drastic 
methods one could think of. Only a small percentage of the catch is 
sampled, and samples are taken on only a few of the catches in 
Broome. Blood sampling in the past has also been used for DNA 
analysis, sex determination and other purposes.

7. Isotopic analysis of Feathers.  This is fascinating.  If you know 
when during the migration cycle that a bird grows a particular 
feather (say a secondary covert), then by sampling that feather you 
can determine to a large extent where the bird was at that 
time.  This adds to the information from other sources of how birds 
move and where they stopover.

8. Declines in Populations.  It is claimed that the declines are due 
to cannon netting.  But this is demonstrably untrue.  The age 
analysis of the birds caught show this.  The Shorebirds 2020 surveys 
at sites where there is no cannon netting show this, and the number 
of flagged birds in these areas are very low.  The birds caught show 
a high site fidelity.  But the people making the claims do not read 
the papers, or the survey analysis.  I guess the less you know, then 
the more things that you can imagine might happen, even if they have 
already been proven to be untrue.

9. Raptors.  It is true that some birds in the past have been caught 
by raptors as they are released.  But the procedures have been 
changed and there were none on last year's expedition.  There are 
lookouts posted for raptors.  Birds are released in groups rather 
than individually if there is any risk of raptors being around.  It 
is everyone's responsibility to lookout for raptors. I don't believe 
that this is an issue any more.


Where do I learn about these things?  By being a participant in the 
expeditions.  By being a member of the AWSG.  It is sent by 
email.  It is published in Stilt and Tattler (published by the 
AWSG).  It is published in international journals.  It is on the AWSG 
web site.  It is disseminated at shorebird conferences.  Some of it 
is communicated on the GFN web site.  This information and much more 
is available through cannon netting, and it does further the 
conservation of these species.

There are vacancies for next year's expedition.  You do not need to 
be a member of the AWSG.  It is not a holiday!  There are early 
starts, heat, humidity, lots of other tasks.  But there is some time 
for general birding.  We look for a team of 23 to 25 people so we can 
safely catch 250 to 300 birds in a catch.  If we catch less then we 
fully process each bird (band, flag, age, moult, weight, wing length, 
etc). If we catch more then we reduce the amount of processing so 
that the birds are released well before the three hour limit (at 
least band, flag, age).   There are tasks for people of all levels of 
experience and fitness.

The people involved in cannon netting care more about these birds 
than anyone, and do everything they can to promote the conservation 
of these species. They put their time into it.  It is grossly unfair 
for them to be criticised.


_________________________________________________________________
Frank O'Connor                          Birding WA 
http://birdingwa.iinet.net.au
Phone : (08) 9386 5694               Email : foconnor AT iinet.net.au  




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Subject: The Art of William T Cooper
From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:22:34 +1100
On ABC1 at the moment, there is program called "The Art of William T. Cooper". 
Might be worth catching on iView. 


Carl Clifford




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Subject: Re: Broad-billed Flycatchers
From: martin cachard <mcachard AT hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:09:36 +1100
yes Graeme, superb image!! 
cheers, martin cachard, cairns
 
> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 08:48:01 +1000
> From: sittella AT gmail.com
> To: naturalight AT graemechapman.com.au
> CC: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Broad-billed Flycatchers
> 
> Wow absolutely stunning image Graeme.  It was of particular interest to me
> because I'm recently back from a Darwin birding trip and it was a feature
> of the Broad-billed FCs I was paying a lot of attention to be able to
> register as well
> Thanks for posting
> Marie Tarrant
> 
> On 23 October 2014 08:32, Graeme Chapman 
> wrote:
> 
> > On a recent trip to the gulf I finally succeeded in getting what I
> > consider to be the archetypal image of a male Broad-billed Flycatcher
> > showing his graduated tail - taken on Manangoura Station just east of
> > Borroloola, a great place to get away from the ever increasing hordes.( see
> > www.graemechapman.com.au/library/leprints.php?pg=16)
> > 
> >
Birding-Aus mailing list > >
Birding-Aus AT birding-aus.org > >
To change settings or unsubscribe visit: > >
http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > > > > > > > -- > Marie Tarrant > Kobble Creek, Qld >
>
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Subject: Re: Broad-billed Flycatchers
From: Marie Tarrant <sittella AT gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 08:48:01 +1000
Wow absolutely stunning image Graeme.  It was of particular interest to me
because I'm recently back from a Darwin birding trip and it was a feature
of the Broad-billed FCs I was paying a lot of attention to be able to
register as well
Thanks for posting
Marie Tarrant

On 23 October 2014 08:32, Graeme Chapman 
wrote:

> On a recent trip to the gulf I finally succeeded in getting what I
> consider to be the archetypal image of a male Broad-billed Flycatcher
> showing his graduated tail - taken on Manangoura Station just east of
> Borroloola, a great place to get away from the ever increasing hordes.( see
> www.graemechapman.com.au/library/leprints.php?pg=16)
> 
>
Birding-Aus mailing list >
Birding-Aus AT birding-aus.org >
To change settings or unsubscribe visit: >
http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > -- Marie Tarrant Kobble Creek, Qld

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Subject: Broad-billed Flycatchers
From: Graeme Chapman <naturalight AT graemechapman.com.au>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 09:32:32 +1100
On a recent trip to the gulf I finally succeeded in getting what I consider to 
be the archetypal image of a male Broad-billed Flycatcher showing his graduated 
tail - taken on Manangoura Station just east of Borroloola, a great place to 
get away from the ever increasing hordes.( see 
www.graemechapman.com.au/library/leprints.php?pg=16) 



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Subject: Powerful and Masked owls.
From: Göran Engberg <engberg.goran AT bredband.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:10:35 +0200
Hi all,

We are two Swedes that vill visit Sydney during 6th-8th November.

First stop will be Barren Grounds , hopefully time will allow some other
sites also.

Looking for information regarding Powerful Owl and Masked Owl.

Has anyone some good sites for those not to far from Sydney?

 

Cheers,

Göran Engberg

 



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Subject: RFI Roosting owls
From: Dennis Woodward <dennis.woodward2 AT btinternet.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:15:50 +0100
Hi, am visiting Aus from UK leaving this Sunday. I'd like to try for the 
roosting Rufous Owl at Cairns Esplanade, and later for the Powerful Owl in 
Sydney Botanical Garden. 

Could anyone please assist with updates on either / both of these birds.
Many thanks,
Dennis.


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Subject: You Yangs. Weebill City.
From: Russell Woodford <rdwoodford AT gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:52:36 +1100
Went against my own advice (this is usually a good idea) and went bush
birding instead of to WTP -  spent a couple of delightful hours at the
Western Plantation (You Yangs). Hardly any wind, and quite hot. Summer
birds are back! Sacred Kingfisher (at least two, one seen), a few
Bee-Eaters, Shining & Horsfields Bronze-Cuckoos, Rufous and Golden
Whistlers. Pleased to hear Brown Treecreeper after struggling to find them
here all year, and always nice to see Ruth Woodrow's Owlet-Nightjar peering
out from its hole. How long do these birds live? Ruth found it some years
ago - maybe a descendant has inherited the family home?

Parks Vic should rename this Weebill Plantation. They were everywhere, and
very vocal. Watch where you step, by the way. There was a 1.5m brown snake
(colour, not necessarily species) on the track beside the Woollamanatta
fenceline (which birders do not cross, of course).


No Sitellas, Diamond Firetails, or Black-eared Cuckoo here today, though
these are all possible - but I'm not complaining. I saw some fabulous birds
in a short visit. I hope everyone who flocked to the Ttreatment Plant had
as good a day.

Russell Woodford
Geelong


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Subject: Freckled Duck, Gate Art and Poetry With a Birding Pal
From: Chris Shaw <seashore AT internode.on.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:04:40 +1030
I took a birding pal for a look around the Adelaide Hills and south. We saw 
lots of birds and some great gate art… 


Chris Shaw
seashore AT internode.on.net
Mobile 0409 675912

My blog - "Top Birds and Everyfing" can be found on the following link 

http://topbirdsandeveryfing.typepad.com/top-birds-everyfing/

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” 
Hanlon 





















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Subject: Save Our Broadwater on the Gold Coast
From: "Judy Leitch" <judyleitch AT optusnet.com.au>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 20:52:52 +1000
Hi all,

 

Our Broadwater supports dugongs, dolphins (over 60 seen recently at the
north end of South Stradbroke), at least 50-60 Eastern Curlews each summer
as well as other migratory and resident shorebirds, 404 sp of fish have been
sighted on the seaway, Humpback Whales have visited - the list goes on...

 

Our Broadwater is seriously threatened by ASF and their ship-terminal and
casino development on Wavebreak Island and Carter Bank.

 

ASF lead a foreign consortia which include two large Chinese state-owned
companies. The state has offered them public land to build an integrated
resort and ship terminal in the Broadwater - claiming that Mayor Tate had a
mandate last election. Given most of the present elements of the project
were never mentioned by Mayor Tate, much less in their present location,
that argument has died a pretty obvious death.


ASF have a big plan (the design for which remains not officially disclosed)
to construct a casino, high rise hotels/apartments etc including a 50 storey
high rise on Wave Break island .Their pics to date suggest they will expand
the landmass through dredging the Broadwater to almost double the island's
size..

 

According to one participant in the 'community consultation', ASF reveals no
new pics or ideas BUT reveals construction will run UNTIL 2025... so that's
A WHOLE DECADE of construction noise, mess, traffic, dredging & Broadwater
devastation for our city... aside from the environmental nightmare for all
the creatures that live in & over the water, the tourism devastation & loss
of local use of the area - all immeasurable... & for what... ASF's coffers &
their casino-fuelled development? 

 

I just signed the petition "Save Our Broadwater - Stop ASF before it is too
late!" and wanted to ask if you could add your name too.

 

This campaign means a lot to me and the more support we can get behind it,
the better chance we have of succeeding. You can read more and sign the
petition here:

 

https://www.communityrun.org/petitions/save-our-broadwater

 

Thank you!

 

 

Judy

 

 

image

 

Save Our Broadwater  

 



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Subject: Re: Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW
From: "Roger Giller" <rgiller AT optusnet.com.au>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 17:26:18 +1100
Not sure Carl. We were just there for a couple of days passing through.

Roger

-----Original Message----- 
From: Carl Clifford
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:15 AM
To: Roger Giller
Cc: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW

Seems that Silver Gulls can pick good nesting spots. Have the Lake Canobolas 
birds succeeded in hatching?

Carl Clifford


> On 20 Oct 2014, at 22:40, Roger Giller  wrote:
>
> On Sept 18 I observed and photographed a Silver Gull sitting on a nest on 
> a pontoon at Lake Canobolas.
>
> Roger.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Carl Clifford
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 6:14 PM
> To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW
>
> Spent the weekend at Orange, NSW and was kindly shown two sites with 
> nesting Silver Gulls. The first site, Wentworth Golf Club, had a pair 
> nesting on a pontoon holding up the intake hose for the irrigation system 
> in the dam just by the clubhouse. The pair had a single chick just 
> starting to moult from its down. The second site was in Suma Park Dam, 
> where there were 4 pairs visibly nesting on a small island in the dam 
> (note, access to Suma Park is not open to the public). There was a 
> constant stream of SGs flying to and from Suma Park and the local tip, so 
> there may be more nesting going on than could be seen from my vantage 
> point.
>
> Carl Clifford
>
>
> 




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Subject: Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders?
From: "Paul Doyle" <paulodoyle AT optusnet.com.au>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:57:05 +1100
I was in Daintree in July and had a great walking tour with Chris Dahlberg.
He has, as Martin mentioned, sold the boat business to Murray Hunt.
While I did not have the opportunity to take a boat tour, I did meet 'Sauce'
Worcester and he was a lovely bloke and very knowledgeable and Chris
recommends his river tours which leave from the jetty in Daintree village
every morning and evening. Web is www.daintreeriverwildwatch.com.au
(I have no financial connection with any of the above).

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT birding-aus.org] On Behalf Of
Martin Butterfield
Sent: Tuesday, 21 October 2014 9:40 AM
To: Bill Stent
Cc: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org; Dominic Chaplin
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders?

I was going to suggest Chris Dahlberg, but on Googling find that Murray Hunt
has taken over that excellent operation.

Martin

Martin Butterfield
http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/

On 21 October 2014 09:12, Bill Stent  wrote:

> I'd have to agree there, although I've never done a tour with anyone 
> else, Murray's tour was excellent, informative and interesting. I 
> stuck with him for the whole day (together with one other birder) and 
> was not disappointed!
>
> Bill
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Dominic Chaplin 
>  wrote:
> > The best person to try for trips on the Daintree River would 
> > definitely
> be BirdLife Northern Queensland Secretary, Murray Hunt
> > http://daintreerivertours.com.au/
> > Cheers,
> > Dominic
> > 
> >
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> > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org > > > >
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Subject: Re: Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy
From: Laurie Knight <l.knight AT optusnet.com.au>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:56:56 +1000
Looking at the list of suggested birds, I can see there are no location smarts 
when you enter observations. For example, Baudin’s Cockatoo should only come up 
in SW WA, yet it appeared when I was entering a Brisbane list. 


Another limitation is that you can’t provide details of breeding activity - I 
had a couple of breeding observations today. 


Regards, Laurie.

On 20 Oct 2014, at 8:17 am, Andrew Taylor  wrote:

> Browsing Aussie Backyard Bird Count list for inner Sydney at
> http://aussiebirdcount.org.au/sightings/ you find a significant fraction
> of lists contain obvious mis-identifications.
> 
> Most like Barn Swallow, Forty-spotted Pardalote, Black Currawong,
> Black-tailed Native-hen & Carnaby's Black-Cockatoo are easy to
> understand. And perhaps the reporter of Abbott's Booby from
> Newtown was making a political point.  Others IDs are just mysterious
> like Black Grasswren.
> 
> In one way its good news that a wider demographic has been attracted,
> although there is clearly challenges ahead to educate observers &
> improve the observations and make the data useful.
> 
> The mis-ID could be useful, to estimate observer accuracy, someone
> reporting (say) Black Currawong shouldn't be relied to have correctly
> ID'ed Little Wattlebird & White-faced Honyeater they've also reported.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
>
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Subject: Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders?
From: Dominic Funnell <dominic.funnell AT googlemail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:56:27 +1000
Hi
I would always go with Sauce aka Ian Worcester of Daintree River Wild Watch
- been out with him on a few occasions and his trips are superb.

http://www.daintreeriverwildwatch.com.au/

Dom

On 21 October 2014 08:05, Dominic Chaplin 
wrote:

> The best person to try for trips on the Daintree River would definitely be
> BirdLife Northern Queensland Secretary, Murray Hunt
> http://daintreerivertours.com.au/
> Cheers,
> Dominic
> 
>
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Subject: Re: RFI Cairns - best time to visit?
From: martin cachard <mcachard AT hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 15:26:11 +1100
hey Ross, September would always be my choice over july - migratory waders are 
here along with many other spring visitors arriving at this time of year but 
never are present here in july... 

cheers, 
martin cachard,
cairns

 
> From: roscoedj AT gmail.com
> To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 10:09:59 +0000
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] RFI Cairns -  best time to visit?
> 
> G’day All,
> 
> 
> Just looking for a little bit of an indication as to what is the better time 
to visit Cairns out of 2 possibilities, July and September. 

> 
> 
> We are also looking at Broome or Kununurra but prices on 4WD hire up that way 
are nuts! 

> 
> 
> We can get a weeks accommodation in Cairns (Clifton Beach) fairly cheaply and 
I was thinking of combining a week there with 3 nights at Kingfisher Lodge. 

> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ross
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Windows Mail
> 
>
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Subject: Re: Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW
From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 11:15:36 +1100
Seems that Silver Gulls can pick good nesting spots. Have the Lake Canobolas 
birds succeeded in hatching? 


Carl Clifford


> On 20 Oct 2014, at 22:40, Roger Giller  wrote:
> 
> On Sept 18 I observed and photographed a Silver Gull sitting on a nest on a 
pontoon at Lake Canobolas. 

> 
> Roger.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Carl Clifford
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 6:14 PM
> To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW
> 
> Spent the weekend at Orange, NSW and was kindly shown two sites with nesting 
Silver Gulls. The first site, Wentworth Golf Club, had a pair nesting on a 
pontoon holding up the intake hose for the irrigation system in the dam just by 
the clubhouse. The pair had a single chick just starting to moult from its 
down. The second site was in Suma Park Dam, where there were 4 pairs visibly 
nesting on a small island in the dam (note, access to Suma Park is not open to 
the public). There was a constant stream of SGs flying to and from Suma Park 
and the local tip, so there may be more nesting going on than could be seen 
from my vantage point. 

> 
> Carl Clifford
> 
> 
> 



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Subject: Great customer service - binoculars
From: Hannah <hjbuschy AT hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:59:19 +1000
Dear all,

Having had a great after-sale customer service experience, I thought I would 
share. 


My 5 y/o binoculars, Leupolds Cascade Green ring 8x42s, recently became very 
difficult to use - the focus ring went very stiff. As you would know, not being 
able to interchange between close and far focus easily and quickly is quite 
frustrating. 


I found out that Leupold now have an authorized repairer in Australia (as of 
August 2014) - previously it could be up to 10 weeks to see a product return. 
So I took my frustrating binoculars to an authorised dealer (a lot of firearms 
shops are) and they sent them off. Within two weeks I had them back...and I had 
been upgraded to a new edition - Cascade BX2's. They are great! 


A couple of points to make - buying from an Australian authorised distributor 
is a must, they won't look at grey imports, so you may miss the after market 
service in that respect. Also, Leupold are a great mid price range brand not 
often spoken about, possibly due to their association with firearms - they are 
one of the leading rifle scope optics suppliers. 


Anyways, I am a very happy customer and wanted to share a good experience.

Regards,

Hannah 


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Subject: Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders?
From: "wildlifeexperiences AT gmail.com" <wildlifeexperiences@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 10:34:27 +1100
Hi Inger,
My 20 cents worth, it's Murray, the Daintree River Boatman. My wife and I were 
out with him in November last year and despite ripping his toe nail off while 
launching the boat, and being in significant pain, he made sure we saw 
everything around the back waters as well as the Daintree :-) 


Yours in all things "green"

John Harris BASc, GDipEd
Director - Wildlife Experiences P/L
Principal Zoologist/Ecologist
Nature Photographer
Wildlife Guide
Croydon, Vic
0409 090 955

President, Field Naturalists Club of Victoria
www.fncv.org.au



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Subject: Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders?
From: Martin Butterfield <martinflab AT gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:40:21 +1100
I was going to suggest Chris Dahlberg, but on Googling find that Murray
Hunt has taken over that excellent operation.

Martin

Martin Butterfield
http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/

On 21 October 2014 09:12, Bill Stent  wrote:

> I'd have to agree there, although I've never done a tour with anyone
> else, Murray's tour was excellent, informative and interesting. I
> stuck with him for the whole day (together with one other birder) and
> was not disappointed!
>
> Bill
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Dominic Chaplin
>  wrote:
> > The best person to try for trips on the Daintree River would definitely
> be BirdLife Northern Queensland Secretary, Murray Hunt
> > http://daintreerivertours.com.au/
> > Cheers,
> > Dominic
> > 
> >
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>
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Subject: Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders?
From: Fiona Anderson <fea2003 AT hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 10:01:19 +1100
I totally agree and have done tours with 2 other companies up there.

Regards,   Fiona

Sent from my iPad

> On 21 Oct 2014, at 9:13 am, "Bill Stent"  wrote:
> 
> I'd have to agree there, although I've never done a tour with anyone
> else, Murray's tour was excellent, informative and interesting. I
> stuck with him for the whole day (together with one other birder) and
> was not disappointed!
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Dominic Chaplin
>  wrote:
>> The best person to try for trips on the Daintree River would definitely be 
BirdLife Northern Queensland Secretary, Murray Hunt 

>> http://daintreerivertours.com.au/
>> Cheers,
>> Dominic
>> 
>>
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>
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Subject: Re: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders?
From: Bill Stent <billstent AT gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:12:58 +1100
I'd have to agree there, although I've never done a tour with anyone
else, Murray's tour was excellent, informative and interesting. I
stuck with him for the whole day (together with one other birder) and
was not disappointed!

Bill

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Dominic Chaplin
 wrote:
> The best person to try for trips on the Daintree River would definitely be 
BirdLife Northern Queensland Secretary, Murray Hunt 

> http://daintreerivertours.com.au/
> Cheers,
> Dominic
> 
>
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Subject: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders?
From: Dominic Chaplin <dominicchaplin AT bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 08:05:52 +1000
The best person to try for trips on the Daintree River would definitely be 
BirdLife Northern Queensland Secretary, Murray Hunt 

http://daintreerivertours.com.au/
Cheers,
Dominic 		 	   		  


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Subject: Re: Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW
From: "Roger Giller" <rgiller AT optusnet.com.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 22:40:29 +1100
On Sept 18 I observed and photographed a Silver Gull sitting on a nest on a 
pontoon at Lake Canobolas.

Roger.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Carl Clifford
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 6:14 PM
To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW

Spent the weekend at Orange, NSW and was kindly shown two sites with nesting 
Silver Gulls. The first site, Wentworth Golf Club, had a pair nesting on a 
pontoon holding up the intake hose for the irrigation system in the dam just 
by the clubhouse. The pair had a single chick just starting to moult from 
its down. The second site was in Suma Park Dam, where there were 4 pairs 
visibly nesting on a small island in the dam (note, access to Suma Park is 
not open to the public). There was a constant stream of SGs flying to and 
from Suma Park and the local tip, so there may be more nesting going on than 
could be seen from my vantage point.

Carl Clifford






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Subject: RFI Best Daintree River Cruise for birders?
From: inger vandyke <ingervandyke AT hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:21:41 +0000
Hi BA Friends,Can you please let me know who operates the best boat tour for 
birders on the Daintree River now? I have some friends heading out there in 
December who are in to bird photography so any help you can provide would be 
great.Best wishesInger 


Inger VandykeProfessional Wildlife Photojournalist and Expedition LeaderTel: 
447582369195Skype: ingervandykewww.ingervandyke.com 

Member International - The Explorer's ClubBoard Member - Southern Oceans 
Seabird Study AssociationTeam Member - Beyond the Smile Womens Literacy 
Program, Solukhumbu Region, NepalMember - Australian National Antarctic 
Research Expeditions (ANARE) Club 

Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Instagram 		 	   		  


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Subject: Re: Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy
From: Tony Ashton <tonyashton0 AT gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 16:08:49 +1000
I'm with Andrew in thought of using such listings to  develop estimates of
 error and using others' obvious errors to assist in understanding why so
many birders get it so wrong much of  the time, accepting there'll always
be super optimists and, worse, cheaters.

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Elliot Leach <
elliot.leach AT griffithuni.edu.au> wrote:

> I'm sure the Birdlife crew is going to be keeping an eye on the data coming
> in Andrew, but I don't envy whoever has to sort through all of these lists!
>
> I agree with you in that it's good news that a wider demographic are trying
> to contribute to this project - they'll just need a bit of practice :)
>
> elliot
>
> On 20 October 2014 08:17, Andrew Taylor  wrote:
>
> > Browsing Aussie Backyard Bird Count list for inner Sydney at
> > http://aussiebirdcount.org.au/sightings/ you find a significant fraction
> > of lists contain obvious mis-identifications.
> >
> > Most like Barn Swallow, Forty-spotted Pardalote, Black Currawong,
> > Black-tailed Native-hen & Carnaby's Black-Cockatoo are easy to
> > understand. And perhaps the reporter of Abbott's Booby from
> > Newtown was making a political point.  Others IDs are just mysterious
> > like Black Grasswren.
> >
> > In one way its good news that a wider demographic has been attracted,
> > although there is clearly challenges ahead to educate observers &
> > improve the observations and make the data useful.
> >
> > The mis-ID could be useful, to estimate observer accuracy, someone
> > reporting (say) Black Currawong shouldn't be relied to have correctly
> > ID'ed Little Wattlebird & White-faced Honyeater they've also reported.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > 
> >
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>
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Subject: RFI Cairns - best time to visit?
From: <roscoedj AT gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 10:09:59 +0000
G’day All,


Just looking for a little bit of an indication as to what is the better time to 
visit Cairns out of 2 possibilities, July and September. 



We are also looking at Broome or Kununurra but prices on 4WD hire up that way 
are nuts! 



We can get a weeks accommodation in Cairns (Clifton Beach) fairly cheaply and I 
was thinking of combining a week there with 3 nights at Kingfisher Lodge. 



Cheers,

Ross






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Subject: Re: Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy
From: "Alec & Catherine Gillespie" <imlay AT tpg.com.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 17:28:17 +1100
It is not so easy to use the app whilst actually birding, especially in the
rain.  Has anyone any idea how to make a correction after it has been
submitted?  I put down the wrong bird - White-browed treecreeper, and I
should have entered White-throated.  I did not notice until after I had
submitted it.  I suspect at least some of the improbable  species noted are
just errors in using the app. 
Catherine Gillespie

-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT birding-aus.org] On Behalf Of
Andrew Taylor
Sent: Monday, 20 October 2014 9:17 AM
To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy

Browsing Aussie Backyard Bird Count list for inner Sydney at
http://aussiebirdcount.org.au/sightings/ you find a significant fraction
of lists contain obvious mis-identifications.

Most like Barn Swallow, Forty-spotted Pardalote, Black Currawong,
Black-tailed Native-hen & Carnaby's Black-Cockatoo are easy to
understand. And perhaps the reporter of Abbott's Booby from
Newtown was making a political point.  Others IDs are just mysterious
like Black Grasswren.

In one way its good news that a wider demographic has been attracted,
although there is clearly challenges ahead to educate observers &
improve the observations and make the data useful.
 
The mis-ID could be useful, to estimate observer accuracy, someone
reporting (say) Black Currawong shouldn't be relied to have correctly
ID'ed Little Wattlebird & White-faced Honyeater they've also reported.

Andrew



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Subject: Last thoughts on Banding
From: "Geoffrey Allan Jones" <gjo48414 AT bigpond.net.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 16:48:42 +1100
At this point in time this will be my last post on this matter and I will
not reply to anymore postings, I would like to thank the people who have
sent me there personal concerns on this matter privately and who wish to
remain anonymous. When I start to see postings that say hatred in them it is
time to leave this subject alone for a while as it will only become tit for
tat or he said we said etc etc. 

 

One last and very important thing Birds do get Stressed and a percentage of
them when caught in Nets either are injured or die, I have been told this by
people who previously have done banding and have seen it with my own eyes so
that is a fact not a myth! 

 

Kindest Regards

Geoff Jones



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Subject: Re: A Band of Birders & Others
From: Ian May <birding AT ozemail.com.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 19:51:57 +1100
Hi all

Adverse impacts from banding local passerines is not comparable to the 
destruction caused by canon netting and marking small long distant 
migratory waders such as Stints, Curlew Sandpiper, Red Knot or 
Sanderling etc etc.. with multiple combinations of large brightly 
coloured leg flags.

The debate should be about the main problem; serious impacts and losses 
caused to rare and endangered migratory birds from destructive banding 
practices i.e.. organised mass bird trapping using canon nets and then, 
leg flagging, especially multiple leg flagging and banding of many 
individuals.   Apart from the well documented trauma from canon netting, 
physical injury to birds, site feeding aversion, roosting site 
disturbance etc etc; there are multiple hidden impacts to the subjects 
caused by leg flagging.   Tangling, fatigue, disadvantage to feed 
competitively, predator attraction, impeding flight maneuverability, 
effect on long distant flight aerodynamics and behavior interactions; 
these are just a few of the questions that should be answered before any 
more wader leg flagging/banding is permitted

Resulting from organised "mass targeting of waders" at strategic bird 
migration hot spots, the affect is no longer on a small percentage of 
individuals; affected birds comprise a large percentage of the world 
population.  So called ringing stations and banding sites are dotted 
across the planet and there appear to be no real protected areas 
offering any protection for waders from destructive banding practices..


Ian May
St Helens
Tasmania

------------------------------------------------------------------------




Greg and Val Clancy wrote:

> I, like Damien, was greatly concerned at the unsubstantiated claims 
> made by Geoff and although I was thinking that it was better to leave 
> sleeping dogs lie these claims could not be left unchallenged.  Damien 
> has done a great job in doing this but I know that people who have an 
> irrational hatred for something will not be swayed by facts.  However 
> I will provide some more facts and some personal examples.  To obtain 
> an A class bird banding licence involves banding over 500 birds under 
> the direct supervision of two A class banders.  You can't band bird 
> anywhere you want as you have to have a specific project which is not 
> that easy to obtain.  Most projects are covered by an animal care and 
> ethics approval and the approving committees usually have a broad 
> representation including animal rights organisations. In addition 
> banders require a state scientific licence with strict conditions and 
> reporting requirements.  The Australian Bird and Bat Banding Scheme in 
> Canberra maintains a database of all birds banded and advises members 
> of the public of banding details when banded birds are found. Banding 
> allows the distances moved by birds to be accurately determined as 
> well as recoding how long they live.  Prior to banding studies 
> scientists thought that due to their high metabolic rates small birds 
> would only be able to live for about 5 or 6 years.  Banding has shown 
> that small passerines can live as long as 18 years - I personally 
> retrapped a White-browed Scrubwren at that age - and larger birds such 
> as Oystercatchers have reached 30 years.  The details for each species 
> banded in Australia can be found on the Australian Bird and Bat 
> Banding Scheme's website.  The longest distance recorded and the 
> longest time between banding and recovery are also presented for each 
> species.  This is worth reading.  The fact that we are retrapping 
> birds many years after banding and sometimes a number of times over 
> the years indicates that the stress of banding is minimal.  An example 
> of how relaxed birds are when being handled is while handling a 
> honeyeater a fly landed on my hand and the bird casually reached over 
> and snapped the fly in its bill.  On another occasion a Lewin's 
> Honeyeater that I released flopped to the ground.  I was a little 
> concerned at first but what it was dong was hopping over to a fruit of 
> the Strangler Fig that had fallen to the ground.  It ate its fill and 
> flew off strongly a few minutes later.  People who cannot handle birds 
> with care will not get a licence to band.  The welfare of the birds is 
> always paramount in banding activities. In the rare instance that a 
> problem arises band sizes, banding techniques etc. are reviewed.  Some 
> species are not allowed to be banded because of problems with bands.
>
> So in summary Geoff you can see that banders don't just race around 
> the country banding birds willy-nilly and unduly stressing birds.  
> Banding is a heavy regulated activity that requires a great commitment 
> from the bander who also spends hours of his/her own time and usually 
> covers all travelling and equipment expenses because banders do care 
> about the welfare of birds and do regularly think about the positives 
> and negatives of their activities.  It is good to know that people 
> care about the welfare of our birds but if you don't like banding then 
> don't participate in it but please stop trying to undermine, with 
> unsubstantiated claims, an important activity which is contributing 
> significantly to our knowledge of birds.
>
>
> Regards
> Greg
>
> Dr Greg. P. Clancy
> Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide
> | PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460
> | 02 6649 3153  | 0429 601 960
> http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com
> http://gregswildliferamblings.blogspot.com.au/
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Damien Farine
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 4:03 AM
> To: Geoffrey Allan Jones ; birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] A Band of Birders & Others
>
> Firstly: my motivation for continuing on this debate is that there is 
> obviously a general lack of awareness about many issues and benefits 
> of studying birds, combined with some deep concerns about the welfare 
> of doing this.
> Geoff,A few answers to your questions.
> First, there has been extensive research on the effects of banding. 
> For example here is a nice study relating to waders by some very 
> well-regarded researchers: http://goo.gl/ABYwco. Some studies will 
> also report detrimental effects in order to encourage avoiding that 
> technique for a particular species. These make recommendations that 
> are then generally enforced by the banding office.
> I think that the main issue with this debate stems from people being 
> opposed to cannon netting. Let me again re-assure you that cannon 
> netting is rare. As far as I know, only a handful of people are even 
> licensed to do it, and these people are typically involved in active 
> research. I don't have experience with shorebirds, but it is 
> exceedingly rare that a bird is injured in a mist-net (rates of 
> self-injury must be less than 1/10000). One way that birds are killed 
> is by predators while caught in a net (in this case it happens very 
> fast). This is avoidable by keeping a good lookout.
> Birds are not flushed into mist-nets. In general, banders rely on 
> placing mist-nets in flyways, hoping to catch birds as they move 
> through the landscape. Birds are very rarely 'jabbed' for blood 
> samples - this is really only done for very targeted studies (and 
> becoming rarer as techniques are enabling more and more data to be 
> extracted from foecal samples).
> In many cases, banding is important for keeping track of the actual 
> population size. I suspect that this is what is being done with the 
> orange-bellied parrots. No one claims that banding helps the birds 
> survive - again I re-iterate that conservation is achieved by 
> implementing actions based on knowledge, and knowledge can only be 
> gained by research.
> Now what I find most disturbing about your post is the use of terms 
> such as 'so-called sake of research'. The political climate in 
> Australia is totally decimating science. There is almost no money left 
> for basic exploratory/discovery research. Yet this is the foundation 
> of our knowledge. The fact that, in this country, even people that are 
> obviously interested in these issues and identify as nature-lovers do 
> not support scientific endeavour is simply frightening. For example, 
> studying the response of common species to different environmental 
> changes tells us a great deal more than studying rare or endangered 
> species - and we should be encouraging all possible avenues of enquiry 
> in these times of massive change. Instead, we are moving towards a 
> model where only science with a direct application is viewed as 
> important - both in terms of government research but also increasingly 
> in the eyes of the general public.
> As I stated in my first post - the vast majority of birds that are 
> banded are part of active research targeted at gaining knowledge about 
> various species. There have been hundreds of PhD students that have 
> studied the ecology and conservation biology of largely unknown 
> Australian species. This information is money in the bank, but is 
> generally only achievable by having each individual uniquely 
> identifiable. Hence, unlike shooting birds, which was based largely on 
> describing species and their distribution, banding enables us to 
> collect a wealth of knowledge that, one day, may be invaluable.
> I think that, before criticising banding in general, it may be helpful 
> to find ways to help build understanding surrounding scientific 
> activities so that people can make informed decisions. I know that 
> most universities in Australia allow the public to attend many of the 
> seminars they run. Approaching biology and ecology departments at a 
> local university is one way getting more exposure to some of the great 
> work being done out there. Sadly, in Australia there is very little 
> media coverage of discovery science (unlike say on the BBC: 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature).
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
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Subject: Re: The Atlas and Yet another listing app!
From: Andrew Silcocks <andrew.silcocks AT birdlife.org.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 05:24:44 +0000
Just to clarify questions about birdata and the Atlas. BirdLife Australia is 
developing a Bird Conservation Portal that will include: 


- an upgraded birdata interface and an app for our programs
- an Important Bird and Biodiversity Area (IBA) site database
- coordination of site surveys and volunteer support
- HANZAB online (searchable)
- Australian Field Ornithology and Emu online
- ornithological library resource
- State of Australia's Birds and an Australian Bird Index

Birdata is squarely aimed at long term structured monitoring and lots of work 
has gone into ensuring it will be more user friendly, avoid multiple data entry 
and provide real time feedback. It will allow local groups to set up their own 
pages (with maps and tables etc) and moderate data for long term monitoring 
projects. You will also be able to share data with your eBird list. 


The portal is a core priority for BirdLife Australia. We want to promote 
structured site surveys more widely so we can apply robust science to protect 
birds. Work on the portal is underway but clearly it is an ambitious project 
that requires ongoing funding. Thanks to everyone who has supported this 
exciting project so far. 


The science portal and Eremaea eBird are very complementary - eBird users are 
skilled citizen scientists and we'd like to more people to participate in our 
conservation programs. 


Regarding the issues people have been reporting with Birdata, Andrew Silcocks 
has provided the following comments: Birdata was created to be the online data 
entry portal which fed data into the master Atlas database, which was offline. 
The two are linked so that data can flow between the two databases. 
Unfortunately the link from the master database to Birdata has been giving up 
problems, which means that not all of the data are displayed in the statistics 
and maps. We haven't had any problems with the master Atlas database, which 
safely houses all of the data. With the development of the new Bird 
Conservation Portal, a new Birdata will be completely revamped and will become 
the master database. At the moment, all of our resources are going into funding 
the new portal, so the problems with the current/old version of Birdata 
probably won't be resolved. Apologies for the inconvenience and confusion this 
has caused. Rest assured, all of the data in the BirdLife Australia Atlas are 
safe and being put to good use. 


Enjoy the weekend and don't forget to take part in the Aussie Backyard Bird 
Count. 




Paul Sullivan

BirdLife Australia






[Aussie Backyard Bird Count]


Count me in!
I want to register for the first ever Aussie Backyard Bird Count 20-26 October 
2014 

Click here to register






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Subject: Bird Banding
From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:27:15 +1100
Once again the argument regarding the alleged death and injury to birds by bird 
banders has reared its head on Birding Aus. It is unfortunate that those in the 
anti-banding camp do not spend their energies campaigning against the greatest 
killers of birds in Australia, vehicle and building strikes and habitat 
destruction. Every year, tens of thousands of birds are killed by vehicle and 
building strikes in Australia and goodness knows how many are killed by habitat 
destruction. 


If those in the anti-banding camp are serious about their cause, they would be 
campaigning to the various Ministers for the Environment, not just wailing in 
the wilderness of B-A. I am quite sure that the Federal Minister, Greg Hunt 
would be able to help. After all, he has declared the end of loss of threatened 
and endangered mammals by 2020. If he can do that, elimination of death and 
injury to birds by banding should be a doddle for him. 


Carl Clifford




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Subject: Re: Bird banding
From: Damien Farine <swiss7 AT hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:04:42 +1100
Graeme,
Great post and thanks for contributing. I agree that there is great variance in 
how responsible different banders are. This is largely what prompted my 
original support for this debate because I really think that i) banders should 
frequently reflect on what they are achieving and what their motivations are 
for doing what they do, and ii) because I actually think that the system should 
include some re-evaluation of projects and even licenses. A great deal of 
importance is placed on initial training, but far less on maintaining best 
practices. 

Most importantly though, I also believe that most birds that are caught in 
mist-nets are done so as part of active research (here I say birds caught 
rather than bands used, because these projects often have reasonably high 
recapture rates). In these studies, every individual is invaluable, and when 
you've waited 5 years for a particular bird to mature and start providing some 
reproductive data, you'll gladly spend the extra time watching nets rather than 
having a cuppa. 

I'd probably agree with an estimate of a 1% death rate. However, to put that 
into context, all animal testing (such as for medical trials - the only 
research our government seems to be interested in funding) has 100% death rate. 
But, more seriously, this is in line with other animal research (e.g. mammals 
http://goo.gl/ihGnVt), and is about at the acceptable rate for animal ethics 
committees (typically 0.5-2% in my experience). Less seriously (perhaps) is 
that this is a drop in the ocean compared to how many chickens are alive at any 
one time and awaiting slaughter (estimated around 19 billion). 





> From: naturalight AT graemechapman.com.au
> Subject: Bird banding
> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 10:06:34 +1100
> CC: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
> To: swiss7 AT hotmail.com
> 
> 
> Hello Damien,
> 
> First of all I agree with what you said in your latest post on Birding-aus , 
in particular the failure of recent governments in Australia (mainly Federal) 
to support science and the environment. We should all put our money where our 
mouth is and support AWC. 

> 
>  However I would like to make the odd qualifier.
> 
> I was a professional ornithologist and bird bander all of my working life - 
without bird banding (in particular individually colour-banded birds) we could 
not have carried out the research we did. 

> 
> During that time, and before when I was a teenager I also banded birds as an 
amateur in conjunction with many of the leading bird-banders of the era. I have 
been there and done that. I've also probably seen all the bad things - events 
that happened that may have been preventable with hindsight, but nobody's 
perfect. 

> 
> About predators and mist nets. Such deaths are as you say avoidable by 
keeping a good lookout. People don't! I have seen nets only checked once every 
half-hour. By and large I would say amateurs set as many nets as they can, 
because their measure of success is often how many birds they catch in a 
session. 

> 
> Overall in my experience I would estimate the death rate associated with mist 
netting as about 1%. All sorts of things happen - Brown Thornbills die in your 
hand (from shock) - predators ( Catbirds are the worst in rainforest) - I have 
known of nets left overnight accidentally containing dead birds the next 
morning - No 1 mist nets left too long can cause small birds to be so badly 
tangled that birds can barely fly when released - and finally poorly fitted 
bands can cause injury, not common but it happens. 

> 
> Many bird banders will deny any of this happens but they aren't telling the 
truth - out in the bush there are no witnesses! 

> 
> Now about cannon nets. Wrongly set, or fired when the birds are in the wrong 
position, cannon nets behead birds. Fortunately few people do and the experts 
will have learnt by experience, Having to house and process a large number 
birds in hot weather is a very difficult undertaking. By and large I don't know 
what the death rate would be, but rest assured there would be one. People are 
reluctant to report or even talk about this sort of thing. 

> 
> The big question is whether in the name of science, is it worth it? I believe 
it is so long as it really is science and not just weekend entertainment. 
Compared with loss of habitat, introduced predators including man, climate 
change and all the other variables, the negatives of bird banding are a drop in 
the ocean. 

> 
> Regards
> 
> Graeme Chapman  ( graemechapman.com.au) 
 		 	   		  


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Subject: Re: Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy
From: Elliot Leach <elliot.leach AT griffithuni.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 09:46:48 +1000
I'm sure the Birdlife crew is going to be keeping an eye on the data coming
in Andrew, but I don't envy whoever has to sort through all of these lists!

I agree with you in that it's good news that a wider demographic are trying
to contribute to this project - they'll just need a bit of practice :)

elliot

On 20 October 2014 08:17, Andrew Taylor  wrote:

> Browsing Aussie Backyard Bird Count list for inner Sydney at
> http://aussiebirdcount.org.au/sightings/ you find a significant fraction
> of lists contain obvious mis-identifications.
>
> Most like Barn Swallow, Forty-spotted Pardalote, Black Currawong,
> Black-tailed Native-hen & Carnaby's Black-Cockatoo are easy to
> understand. And perhaps the reporter of Abbott's Booby from
> Newtown was making a political point.  Others IDs are just mysterious
> like Black Grasswren.
>
> In one way its good news that a wider demographic has been attracted,
> although there is clearly challenges ahead to educate observers &
> improve the observations and make the data useful.
>
> The mis-ID could be useful, to estimate observer accuracy, someone
> reporting (say) Black Currawong shouldn't be relied to have correctly
> ID'ed Little Wattlebird & White-faced Honyeater they've also reported.
>
> Andrew
>
> 
>
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Subject: Birdline Australian Capital Territory Weekly Update
From: notifications AT eremaea.com
Date: 20 Oct 2014 08:06:39 +1000
   Birdline Australian Capital Territory

   Published sightings for the week ending 19 Oct 2014.

   Thu 16 Oct Swamp Harrier Kellys Swamp
   Flew across Dairy Rd (flight style a harrier giveaway and clear white
   rump for Swamp). Scared the daylights out of every duckon the Swamp.
   Martin Butterfield
   Little Bittern Cook
   At approx 12.30 today a Little Bittern was flushed from beside our
   garden pond. At a guess it was about 25 cms in length with a brownish
   rather than black crown. Buff below with a brown streak down the throat
   and upper breast. The lores were yellow and the bird was not as dark as
   male Little Bitterns we have seen. We think it was likely an adult
   female. It flew up into our apple tree and then took refuge (with bill
   pointed skywards) in a dense shrub. Noisy Miners arrived in some
   numbers to harass it but soon lost interest. We have several more
   photos.
   Kim and Geoff Larmour
   Wed 15 Oct White-winged Black Tern Fyshwick Sewage Treatment Plant
   An adult White-winged Black Tern in non-breeding plumage was present
   with 3 Whiskered Terns in breeding plumage mostly over pond 3a at the
   Fyshwick Sewage Treatment Plant from 13:00 to at least 16:00. The birds
   were readily viewed from Dairy Flat Road. [Moderator's comment: this is
   the first ever record of the species for the ACT]
   PJ Milburn


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Subject: Birdline Central & Southern Queensland Weekly Update
From: notifications AT eremaea.com
Date: 20 Oct 2014 08:11:23 +1000
   Birdline Central & Southern Queensland

   Published sightings for the week ending 19 Oct 2014.

   Sun 19 Oct Cotton Pygmy-Goose Bundaberg--Baldwin Swamp Environment Park
   The picture shows 2 pairs, later I observed at least 12 pairs scattered
   through-out the wetlands.
   Stephen Gallivan
   Sat 18 Oct Brown Booby Offshore--Southport pelagic
   In addition to Rob's note, I'd like to add an immature Brown Booby,
   seen on today's Southport Pelagic.
   Nikolas Haass and all on board the Souhport Pelagic organised by Paul
   Walbridge
   Gibson's Albatross, White-throated Needletail Offshore--Southport
   pelagic
   A fairly average October trip with 15 species. Good numbers of
   Short-tailed Shearwaters migrating, and 3 Gibson's Albatrosses which
   are a scarce bird in SEQ. Also a couple of Needletails going south.
   Rob Morris and all on board the Southport Pelagic organised by Paul
   Walbridge
   Thu 16 Oct Brush Cuckoo, Satin Flycatcher, Glossy Ibis Sandy Camp Road
   Wetlands
   At Sandy Camp from 7-8am, water bodies are driest I've seen for a
   while. Two Glossy Ibis were in the front-most pond. Brush Cuckoo &
   Satin Flycatcher were round the back, along the margins of the big
   rearmost pond. Brush Cuckoo was in low vegetation on the left-turn to
   said pond, calling persistently and then seen feeding on a large
   caterpillar. Satin Flycatcher male was seen well in a bare tree at the
   junction of that pond. Colour on head and back was more even and glossy
   than Leadens (which were common throughout), the breast demarcation
   bent downwards and call was slightly different, with a distinct
   whistled follow-through to the standard 'schrep schrep' call.
   Russell Yong
   Tue 14 Oct Rose Crowned Fruit Dove Osprey House Environmental Centre
   Solitary Rose Crowned Fruit Dove sitting briefly in Casurina tree
   eastern extension to boardwalk at Osprey House Environment Centre,
   Dohles Rocks Rd, Griffin. Qld
   Pip Grant-Taylor
   Grey Plover Toorbul--high tide roost
   Grey Plover seen in company with some Grey-tailed Tattlers at Toorbul
   Point north from the high tide roost.
   Geoff Walker
   Grey Plover Toorbul - high tide roost
   Present again today,100 yards North of roost
   Ross and Natalie Sinclair
   Black-faced Monarch Walter Zimmerman Park, Pine Mt
   Seen them around the nearby gully before. Having found a snack, it flew
   my way and buzzed! (30m South of the northern pipeline crossing).
   Peter Horler
   White-winged Triller Walter Zimmerman Park, Pine Mt
   Unexpected, shiny white, with its black cap, around 15m up in the
   eucalypts. Had the distinct impression that it was passing through.
   (just South of where the park track leaves the Rail Trail)
   Peter Horler


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Subject: Birdline Australia Weekly Update
From: notifications AT eremaea.com
Date: 20 Oct 2014 08:02:54 +1000
   Birdline Australia

   Published sightings for the week ending 19 Oct 2014.


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Subject: Bird banding
From: Graeme Chapman <naturalight AT graemechapman.com.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 10:06:34 +1100
Hello Damien,

First of all I agree with what you said in your latest post on Birding-aus , in 
particular the failure of recent governments in Australia (mainly Federal) to 
support science and the environment. We should all put our money where our 
mouth is and support AWC. 


 However I would like to make the odd qualifier.

I was a professional ornithologist and bird bander all of my working life - 
without bird banding (in particular individually colour-banded birds) we could 
not have carried out the research we did. 


During that time, and before when I was a teenager I also banded birds as an 
amateur in conjunction with many of the leading bird-banders of the era. I have 
been there and done that. I've also probably seen all the bad things - events 
that happened that may have been preventable with hindsight, but nobody's 
perfect. 


About predators and mist nets. Such deaths are as you say avoidable by keeping 
a good lookout. People don't! I have seen nets only checked once every 
half-hour. By and large I would say amateurs set as many nets as they can, 
because their measure of success is often how many birds they catch in a 
session. 


Overall in my experience I would estimate the death rate associated with mist 
netting as about 1%. All sorts of things happen - Brown Thornbills die in your 
hand (from shock) - predators ( Catbirds are the worst in rainforest) - I have 
known of nets left overnight accidentally containing dead birds the next 
morning - No 1 mist nets left too long can cause small birds to be so badly 
tangled that birds can barely fly when released - and finally poorly fitted 
bands can cause injury, not common but it happens. 


Many bird banders will deny any of this happens but they aren't telling the 
truth - out in the bush there are no witnesses! 


Now about cannon nets. Wrongly set, or fired when the birds are in the wrong 
position, cannon nets behead birds. Fortunately few people do and the experts 
will have learnt by experience, Having to house and process a large number 
birds in hot weather is a very difficult undertaking. By and large I don't know 
what the death rate would be, but rest assured there would be one. People are 
reluctant to report or even talk about this sort of thing. 


The big question is whether in the name of science, is it worth it? I believe 
it is so long as it really is science and not just weekend entertainment. 
Compared with loss of habitat, introduced predators including man, climate 
change and all the other variables, the negatives of bird banding are a drop in 
the ocean. 


Regards

Graeme Chapman  ( graemechapman.com.au) 


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Subject: Re: A Band of Birders & Others
From: "Greg and Val Clancy" <gclancy AT tpg.com.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 09:44:58 +1100
I, like Damien, was greatly concerned at the unsubstantiated claims made by 
Geoff and although I was thinking that it was better to leave sleeping dogs 
lie these claims could not be left unchallenged.  Damien has done a great 
job in doing this but I know that people who have an irrational hatred for 
something will not be swayed by facts.  However I will provide some more 
facts and some personal examples.  To obtain an A class bird banding licence 
involves banding over 500 birds under the direct supervision of two A class 
banders.  You can't band bird anywhere you want as you have to have a 
specific project which is not that easy to obtain.  Most projects are 
covered by an animal care and ethics approval and the approving committees 
usually have a broad representation including animal rights organisations. 
In addition banders require a state scientific licence with strict 
conditions and reporting requirements.  The Australian Bird and Bat Banding 
Scheme in Canberra maintains a database of all birds banded and advises 
members of the public of banding details when banded birds are found. 
Banding allows the distances moved by birds to be accurately determined as 
well as recoding how long they live.  Prior to banding studies scientists 
thought that due to their high metabolic rates small birds would only be 
able to live for about 5 or 6 years.  Banding has shown that small 
passerines can live as long as 18 years - I personally retrapped a 
White-browed Scrubwren at that age - and larger birds such as Oystercatchers 
have reached 30 years.  The details for each species banded in Australia can 
be found on the Australian Bird and Bat Banding Scheme's website.  The 
longest distance recorded and the longest time between banding and recovery 
are also presented for each species.  This is worth reading.  The fact that 
we are retrapping birds many years after banding and sometimes a number of 
times over the years indicates that the stress of banding is minimal.  An 
example of how relaxed birds are when being handled is while handling a 
honeyeater a fly landed on my hand and the bird casually reached over and 
snapped the fly in its bill.  On another occasion a Lewin's Honeyeater that 
I released flopped to the ground.  I was a little concerned at first but 
what it was dong was hopping over to a fruit of the Strangler Fig that had 
fallen to the ground.  It ate its fill and flew off strongly a few minutes 
later.  People who cannot handle birds with care will not get a licence to 
band.  The welfare of the birds is always paramount in banding activities. 
In the rare instance that a problem arises band sizes, banding techniques 
etc. are reviewed.  Some species are not allowed to be banded because of 
problems with bands.

So in summary Geoff you can see that banders don't just race around the 
country banding birds willy-nilly and unduly stressing birds.  Banding is a 
heavy regulated activity that requires a great commitment from the bander 
who also spends hours of his/her own time and usually covers all travelling 
and equipment expenses because banders do care about the welfare of birds 
and do regularly think about the positives and negatives of their 
activities.  It is good to know that people care about the welfare of our 
birds but if you don't like banding then don't participate in it but please 
stop trying to undermine, with unsubstantiated claims, an important activity 
which is contributing significantly to our knowledge of birds.


Regards
Greg

Dr Greg. P. Clancy
Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide
| PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460
| 02 6649 3153  | 0429 601 960
http://www.gregclancyecologistguide.com
http://gregswildliferamblings.blogspot.com.au/


-----Original Message----- 
From: Damien Farine
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 4:03 AM
To: Geoffrey Allan Jones ; birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] A Band of Birders & Others

Firstly: my motivation for continuing on this debate is that there is 
obviously a general lack of awareness about many issues and benefits of 
studying birds, combined with some deep concerns about the welfare of doing 
this.
Geoff,A few answers to your questions.
First, there has been extensive research on the effects of banding. For 
example here is a nice study relating to waders by some very well-regarded 
researchers: http://goo.gl/ABYwco. Some studies will also report detrimental 
effects in order to encourage avoiding that technique for a particular 
species. These make recommendations that are then generally enforced by the 
banding office.
I think that the main issue with this debate stems from people being opposed 
to cannon netting. Let me again re-assure you that cannon netting is rare. 
As far as I know, only a handful of people are even licensed to do it, and 
these people are typically involved in active research. I don't have 
experience with shorebirds, but it is exceedingly rare that a bird is 
injured in a mist-net (rates of self-injury must be less than 1/10000). One 
way that birds are killed is by predators while caught in a net (in this 
case it happens very fast). This is avoidable by keeping a good lookout.
Birds are not flushed into mist-nets. In general, banders rely on placing 
mist-nets in flyways, hoping to catch birds as they move through the 
landscape. Birds are very rarely 'jabbed' for blood samples - this is really 
only done for very targeted studies (and becoming rarer as techniques are 
enabling more and more data to be extracted from foecal samples).
In many cases, banding is important for keeping track of the actual 
population size. I suspect that this is what is being done with the 
orange-bellied parrots. No one claims that banding helps the birds survive - 
again I re-iterate that conservation is achieved by implementing actions 
based on knowledge, and knowledge can only be gained by research.
Now what I find most disturbing about your post is the use of terms such as 
'so-called sake of research'. The political climate in Australia is totally 
decimating science. There is almost no money left for basic 
exploratory/discovery research. Yet this is the foundation of our knowledge. 
The fact that, in this country, even people that are obviously interested in 
these issues and identify as nature-lovers do not support scientific 
endeavour is simply frightening. For example, studying the response of 
common species to different environmental changes tells us a great deal more 
than studying rare or endangered species - and we should be encouraging all 
possible avenues of enquiry in these times of massive change. Instead, we 
are moving towards a model where only science with a direct application is 
viewed as important - both in terms of government research but also 
increasingly in the eyes of the general public.
As I stated in my first post - the vast majority of birds that are banded 
are part of active research targeted at gaining knowledge about various 
species. There have been hundreds of PhD students that have studied the 
ecology and conservation biology of largely unknown Australian species. This 
information is money in the bank, but is generally only achievable by having 
each individual uniquely identifiable. Hence, unlike shooting birds, which 
was based largely on describing species and their distribution, banding 
enables us to collect a wealth of knowledge that, one day, may be 
invaluable.
I think that, before criticising banding in general, it may be helpful to 
find ways to help build understanding surrounding scientific activities so 
that people can make informed decisions. I know that most universities in 
Australia allow the public to attend many of the seminars they run. 
Approaching biology and ecology departments at a local university is one way 
getting more exposure to some of the great work being done out there. Sadly, 
in Australia there is very little media coverage of discovery science 
(unlike say on the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature).







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Subject: Aussie Backyard Bird Count data noisy
From: Andrew Taylor <andrewt AT cse.unsw.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 09:17:10 +1100
Browsing Aussie Backyard Bird Count list for inner Sydney at
http://aussiebirdcount.org.au/sightings/ you find a significant fraction
of lists contain obvious mis-identifications.

Most like Barn Swallow, Forty-spotted Pardalote, Black Currawong,
Black-tailed Native-hen & Carnaby's Black-Cockatoo are easy to
understand. And perhaps the reporter of Abbott's Booby from
Newtown was making a political point.  Others IDs are just mysterious
like Black Grasswren.

In one way its good news that a wider demographic has been attracted,
although there is clearly challenges ahead to educate observers &
improve the observations and make the data useful.
 
The mis-ID could be useful, to estimate observer accuracy, someone
reporting (say) Black Currawong shouldn't be relied to have correctly
ID'ed Little Wattlebird & White-faced Honyeater they've also reported.

Andrew



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Subject: Regent honeyeaters
From: Garry Clark <gclark AT skymesh.com.au>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 07:12:10 +1100
Observed two fledglings Regent Honeyeaters being feed by two adults over a 
period of four hours on the 19 Oct at Ironbark Creek on the Nangarah bird 
route, Barraba. Photo and video taken. 

Observers: Beth Williams, Jim Palmer & Garry Clark. 

Sent from my iPhone


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Subject: Re: A Band of Birders & Others
From: Damien Farine <swiss7 AT hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 04:03:26 +1100
Firstly: my motivation for continuing on this debate is that there is obviously 
a general lack of awareness about many issues and benefits of studying birds, 
combined with some deep concerns about the welfare of doing this. 

Geoff,A few answers to your questions.
First, there has been extensive research on the effects of banding. For example 
here is a nice study relating to waders by some very well-regarded researchers: 
http://goo.gl/ABYwco. Some studies will also report detrimental effects in 
order to encourage avoiding that technique for a particular species. These make 
recommendations that are then generally enforced by the banding office. 

I think that the main issue with this debate stems from people being opposed to 
cannon netting. Let me again re-assure you that cannon netting is rare. As far 
as I know, only a handful of people are even licensed to do it, and these 
people are typically involved in active research. I don't have experience with 
shorebirds, but it is exceedingly rare that a bird is injured in a mist-net 
(rates of self-injury must be less than 1/10000). One way that birds are killed 
is by predators while caught in a net (in this case it happens very fast). This 
is avoidable by keeping a good lookout. 

Birds are not flushed into mist-nets. In general, banders rely on placing 
mist-nets in flyways, hoping to catch birds as they move through the landscape. 
Birds are very rarely 'jabbed' for blood samples - this is really only done for 
very targeted studies (and becoming rarer as techniques are enabling more and 
more data to be extracted from foecal samples). 

In many cases, banding is important for keeping track of the actual population 
size. I suspect that this is what is being done with the orange-bellied 
parrots. No one claims that banding helps the birds survive - again I 
re-iterate that conservation is achieved by implementing actions based on 
knowledge, and knowledge can only be gained by research. 

Now what I find most disturbing about your post is the use of terms such as 
'so-called sake of research'. The political climate in Australia is totally 
decimating science. There is almost no money left for basic 
exploratory/discovery research. Yet this is the foundation of our knowledge. 
The fact that, in this country, even people that are obviously interested in 
these issues and identify as nature-lovers do not support scientific endeavour 
is simply frightening. For example, studying the response of common species to 
different environmental changes tells us a great deal more than studying rare 
or endangered species - and we should be encouraging all possible avenues of 
enquiry in these times of massive change. Instead, we are moving towards a 
model where only science with a direct application is viewed as important - 
both in terms of government research but also increasingly in the eyes of the 
general public. 

As I stated in my first post - the vast majority of birds that are banded are 
part of active research targeted at gaining knowledge about various species. 
There have been hundreds of PhD students that have studied the ecology and 
conservation biology of largely unknown Australian species. This information is 
money in the bank, but is generally only achievable by having each individual 
uniquely identifiable. Hence, unlike shooting birds, which was based largely on 
describing species and their distribution, banding enables us to collect a 
wealth of knowledge that, one day, may be invaluable. 

I think that, before criticising banding in general, it may be helpful to find 
ways to help build understanding surrounding scientific activities so that 
people can make informed decisions. I know that most universities in Australia 
allow the public to attend many of the seminars they run. Approaching biology 
and ecology departments at a local university is one way getting more exposure 
to some of the great work being done out there. Sadly, in Australia there is 
very little media coverage of discovery science (unlike say on the BBC: 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature). 




From: gjo48414 AT bigpond.net.au
To: birding-aus AT birding-aus.org
CC: swiss7 AT hotmail.com; markcarey82 AT hotmail.com
Subject: A Band of Birders & Others
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 16:18:48 +1100

Gidday Everyone Please remember this is just a point of few from different 
sides and there is nothing personal against anyone on this forum. Bird Banding 
is certainly a touchy subject and my original post was very emotional, I have 
calmed down now and slowly thought about the subject. I have in no way changed 
my view on this subject and as Damien has put his views forward point by point, 
can I challenge what he has said, in some ways? For there is no Federal or 
State funding on the detrimental effects of banding birds for the sake of 
research and what evidence can I and people who want to remain anonymous give 
back about banding, please also remember I am not against all banding if it is 
for the sake of critical research to save a species. No 1 What happens to birds 
that are injured when either they are caught in a mist net or when Cannon 
Netting are they sent off to be looked after by carers or do they have their 
necks rung to put them out of their misery. No 2 Birds flush naturally if a 
person or animal gets too close to them that is their most natural instinct and 
in no way does it cause stress to a bird it is there natural defence.If a bird 
is called in, it can leave of its own free will and I for one do notice that if 
a bird is agitated I immediately stop the call as the birds welfare is my main 
priority not the photo. Getting caught in a mist net, and how are birds caught 
in a mist net? they are usually herded or flushed towards a net! So then after 
they are trapped in the net they are manhandled, and in a lot of cases jabbed 
for blood samples, before being ringed, and then placed in a bag to be 
eventually released. In the case of waders being released, most of them 
singularly they become ideal prey for predators, so what price for research? 
And can someone please tell me what is the natural defence of a bird against 
that? No 3 Have a look at the banding done on the Orange-bellied Parrot, the 
banding on this species has done nothing, yet pure observation tells us that 
they are losing their habitat in Victoria and South Australia and this has been 
learnt by counting numbers not by putting an extremely endangered bird thru the 
traumatisation of banding. No 4 There are quite a few of us out in the field, 
week in & out who observe what is going on out there, we know that Australia is 
a boom bust cycle for some birds and we are well aware of what population 
growth and unscrupulous developers are doing. But when do we draw the line 
about banding birds for what some believe is for the good of the species, is 
the stress and maiming and sometimes death of a bird in the so-called sake of 
research worth it? Also if anybody out there has a photo of an injured bird 
done by banding or they think that a bird has to many bands on its legs please 
send them to me and I will put them up on my website. I for one think it is 
time that we seriously looked at the habit of Bird Banging for Banding sake and 
need to come up with a different way, Just remember that way back research was 
done by shooting, then skinning birds which we all now look at as barbaric. 
Regards to everyoneGeoff JonesBarraimaging 



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Subject: Birdpedia - Australia - Weekly Digest
From: "Birdpedia - Australia Info" <info AT birdpedia.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 00:05:05 +1030
The following is a digest of Sightings Reported on Birdpedia for the period 
Monday, October 13, 2014 to Sunday, October 19, 2014: 


Area: SA

Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2014

Location: Thorndon Park, Athelstone

Eastern Koel (Eudynamys orientalis) (1) The bird was heard in Thorndon Park, 
Athelstone. 

This may be the same bird that was in this area for 3-4 months last year.

Reported by: Graeme Cellier on Wednesday, October 15, 2014

---------------------------------------------

Date: Thursday, October 16, 2014

Location: Lions bird hide Barrage road Goolwa

Wood Sandpiper (Tringa glareola) (1) Single bird feeding in shallow water right 
hand side of hide. 


Reported by: Winston Syson on Saturday, October 18, 2014

---------------------------------------------

Date: Sunday, October 19, 2014

Location: Magazine Road Greenfields

White-necked Heron (Ardea pacifica) (7) 6 Adults and 1 immature; 2 'pairs' and 
2 with imm. 


Long-toed Stint (Calidris subminuta) (1) 1 bird at far end of wetland foraging 
near group of Sharp tailed Sandpipers. 


Wetland has high level of water , all up observed 60-70 Sharp tailed Sandpipers 
at least 10 Juveniles. 


Reported by: William Brooker on Sunday, October 19, 2014

---------------------------------------------

Need more information about a sighting? Login and contact the poster directly.

Receive sightings via email or SMS immediately they are posted. 

Not a member of Birdpedia? Membership is free and gives you access to 
information for over 230 countries. 


To sign up go to the Birdpedia Web Site (http://www.birdpedia.com/).

To find out more about Birdpedia and what it can do for you, see 'What is 
Birdpedia?' 


---------------------------------------------
                         



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Subject: Strange Bush Stonecurlew Behaviour
From: "Alans Wildlife Tours" <info AT alanswildlifetours.com.au>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 18:12:26 +1000
Do any of you remember my talking last year of the male Bush Stonecurlew at our 
house shifting my boots around. He is doing it again. I suspect they may be 
ready to breed as he only did it last year whicle she was sitting on eggs. 
I’ll have to look if she has laid. 

Regards,
Alan

Alan's Wildlife Tours
2 Mather Road
Yungaburra 4884

Phone 07 4095 3784
Mobile 0408 953 786
http://www.alanswildlifetours.com.au/


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Subject: Re: bird call recognition app.
From: Peter Shute <pshute AT nuw.org.au>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 18:50:13 +1100
> On 19 Oct 2014, at 6:24 am, "Charles"  wrote:
> 
> Specifically in relation to birds, getting the speaker device close to the 
bird calling could also be a challenge in many instances? 


I assume you mean recording device? Yes, even for humans trying to identify 
calls, a recording fairly clear of background noise helps a lot. Sometimes it 
can be difficult to get people to understand just which call you want help with 
if there are louder birds calling over the top of it. If there are insects, or 
wind blowing in the trees, the call can sometimes be difficult to see on a 
spectrogram. 


Of course there are alternatives to getting closer - shotgun and parabolic 
microphones - but not everyone had those handy. 


Peter Shute


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Subject: Silver Gulls nesting at Orange, NSW
From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 18:14:44 +1100
Spent the weekend at Orange, NSW and was kindly shown two sites with nesting 
Silver Gulls. The first site, Wentworth Golf Club, had a pair nesting on a 
pontoon holding up the intake hose for the irrigation system in the dam just by 
the clubhouse. The pair had a single chick just starting to moult from its 
down. The second site was in Suma Park Dam, where there were 4 pairs visibly 
nesting on a small island in the dam (note, access to Suma Park is not open to 
the public). There was a constant stream of SGs flying to and from Suma Park 
and the local tip, so there may be more nesting going on than could be seen 
from my vantage point. 


Carl Clifford




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Subject: A Band of Birders & Others
From: "Geoffrey Allan Jones" <gjo48414 AT bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 16:18:48 +1100
Gidday Everyone Please remember this is just a point of few from different
sides and there is nothing personal against anyone on this forum.

 

Bird Banding is certainly a touchy subject and my original post was very
emotional, I have calmed down now and slowly thought about the subject. I
have in no way changed my view on this subject and as Damien has put his
views forward point by point, can I challenge what he has said, in some
ways?

 

For there is no Federal or State funding on the detrimental effects of
banding birds for the sake of research and what evidence can I and people
who want to remain anonymous give back about banding, please also remember I
am not against all banding if it is for the sake of critical research to
save a species.

 

No 1 What happens to birds that are injured when either they are caught in a
mist net or when Cannon Netting are they sent off to be looked after by
carers or do they have their necks rung to put them out of their misery.

 

No 2  Birds flush naturally if a person or animal gets too close to them
that is their most natural instinct and in no way does it cause stress to a
bird it is there natural defence.

If a bird is called in, it can leave of its own free will and I for one do
notice that if a bird is agitated I immediately stop the call as the birds
welfare is my main priority not the photo.

 

Getting caught in a mist net, and how are birds caught in a mist net? they
are usually herded or flushed towards a net! So then after they are trapped
in the net they are manhandled, and in a lot of cases jabbed for blood
samples, before being ringed, and then placed in a bag to be eventually
released. In the case of waders being released, most of them singularly they
become ideal prey for predators, so what price for research? And can someone
please tell me what is the natural defence of a bird against that?

 

No 3 Have a look at the banding done on the Orange-bellied Parrot, the
banding on this species has done nothing, yet pure observation tells us that
they are losing their habitat in Victoria and South Australia and this has
been learnt by counting numbers not by putting an extremely endangered bird
thru the traumatisation of banding.

 

No 4 There are quite a few of us out in the field, week in & out who observe
what is going on out there, we know that Australia is a boom bust cycle for
some birds and we are well aware of what population growth and unscrupulous
developers are doing. But when do we draw the line about banding birds for
what some believe is for the good of the species, is the stress and maiming
and sometimes death of a bird in the so-called sake of research worth it? 

 

Also if anybody out there has a photo of an injured bird done by banding or
they think that a bird has to many bands on its legs please send them to me
and I will put them up on my website. I for one think it is time that we
seriously looked at the habit of Bird Banging for Banding sake and need to
come up with a different way, Just remember that way back research was done
by shooting, then skinning birds which we all now look at as barbaric.

 

Regards to everyone

Geoff Jones

Barraimaging

 



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Subject: Eastern Whipbird
From: Chris Shaw <seashore AT internode.on.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 14:25:36 +1030
Ciao,

A couple of photos of an Eastern Whipbird one displaying it’s very fan-like 
tail - fantail? Anyway I added a bit of nostalgia about the imperial 
measurement system that is gobble-de-gook to young players who look at you 
blankly should you mention such archaic units... 


Chris Shaw
seashore AT internode.on.net
Mobile 0409 675912

My blog - "Top Birds and Everyfing" can be found on the following link 

http://topbirdsandeveryfing.typepad.com/top-birds-everyfing/

“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” 
Hanlon 





















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Subject: Cassowaries
From: "Phil & Sue Gregory" <oreornis AT gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 12:23:41 +1000
Interesting times here in Kuranda. Our resident male Cassowary appeared with 2 
chicks on Aug 9, but sadly one of them died in mid-Sept, it always been the 
weaker of the two and became sick, dying overnight. It had an injury on its 
side and weighed just c. 1200g, having not eaten for several days prior. The 
surviving chick is doing well, nicely bossy and busy chasing brushturkeys and 
Musky Rat-Kangaroos, now some 10 weeks old, and still very stripy. 


We lost our big female Harriet back in May when she was struck by a speeding 
car on Black Mountain Road, the first adult bird to be killed here as far as we 
know and not surprising given how speed limits get ignored or are seen as 
targets, it is a notional 40km here through this core Cassowary area. An 
autopsy by our Kuranda Vet showed she had a gut infection and may have been 
dying anyway, perhaps she was unwell and was on the road because of this, as 
she was always really scared of traffic and would bolt at the sound of trucks 
or cars. She first appeared back in Sept 2013 and had a huge territorial fight 
with our long-standing resident female Missy, who has been here since 2000 when 
she herself replaced another female. Harriet chased her down beside the house, 
where Missy fell over and smashed a large flowerpot before being driven off, 
dramatic stuff that we definitely did not want to be in the way of! 


Essentially Harriet then took over, with poor Missy sneaking in very rarely 
when she was away. Harriet was seen mating with our male, and we are pretty 
sure the chicks this year are from her as she was the dominant here then. Last 
year's chicks we are sure came from Missy, but sadly they only survived very 
briefly in November, disappearing when a pack of feral dingo x domestic dogs 
passed through. 


As soon as Harriet was gone, Missy moved back in, literally the next day, and 
has been visiting several times a week ever since, including whilst the male 
was away incubating in June-July. The curious thing is that now she is looking 
as if she is ready to mate, her neck colour is very intense violet-blue which 
is a sign of breeding condition, and has been coming in when the male and his 
surviving chick appear. On Oct 15 we had the bizarre sight of the male sat down 
and the female attempting to climb on him to mate, something we had never seen 
before in our 16 years of observations of these birds. 


Today we have a Korean film crew here, and the female came in whilst the male 
and his chick were here, and there was a brief mating episode when she sat down 
and basically invited the male to copulate. The timing is way off, as usually 
they mate in May-June, and the last thing we now want is for the male to 
perhaps abandon his chick and go incubate over the cyclone season, we shall 
have to wait and see what happens. We suspect that Missy did not mate earlier 
this year and is making up for lost time! 


Phil Gregory

Website 1: Http://www.sicklebillsafaris.com
Website 2: Http://www.cassowary-house.com.au



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Subject: Panama Trip 2015
From: "Greg Roberts" <ninderry AT westnet.com.au>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 08:03:21 +1000

	Hi all 

	I am organising a three-week trip to Panama during the Australian
winter next year and am asking for expressions of interest. 

	I've not yet set firm dates but the trip will cover the major birding
regions of the country including the western highlands, central Panama
and the spectacular Darien wilderness in southern Panama. We have a
good chance of seeing difficult and much sought after specialties such
as Black-crowned Antpitta, Rufous-vented Ground-Cuckoo, Sapayoa and
Wrenthrush. 

	I am presently in the process of nutting out an itinerary and costs
with Panamanian birding operatives. With similar trips in the past, I
have been able to keep costs well below those of the big guiding
companies such as Wings and Birdquest.  

	Please let me know if you may be interested. We are looking at a
group of 7-9 people. 

	Greg Roberts


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Subject: Eaglehawk Neck Pelagics ­ Saturday, 30/08, and Sunday, 31/08/2014
From: Nikolas Haass <n.haass1 AT uq.edu.au>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:39:17 +0000
Hi all,

Sorry for this major delay. Here is our Eaglehawk Neck Pelagic report 
(including links to Raja's photos) from late August 2014: 


http://www.sossa-international.org/forum/showthread.php?220-Eaglehawk-Neck-Pelagics-%96-Saturday-30-08-and-Sunday-31-08-2014 


Cheers,

Nikolas

Nikolas Haass | MD, PhD, FACD
Associate Professor; Head, Experimental Melanoma Therapy Group
President of the Australasian Society of Dermatology Research (ASDR)

The University of Queensland Diamantina Institute
Level 6 | Translational Research Institute | 37 Kent Street | Woolloongabba QLD 
4102 


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http://www.di.uq.edu.au/associate-professor-nikolas-haass; 
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Subject: White-throated Needletail and Albert''s Lyrebird
From: "Richard Johnstone" <rjohnsto AT tpg.com.au>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 23:12:40 +1100
On the far north coast of NSW last week for a work field trip (13 Oct), I
saw a pair of Albert's Lyrebirds at Bar Mountain in Border Ranges NP. They
were about 50 metres along Nothofagus walk, and seemed really intent on
scratching under a fallen tree, ignoring people only 3 metres away. I got a
couple of pictures, something I never imagined with this shy species.

The following day  (14 Oct) we were at Lennox Head, after a storm passed
through there was a flock of White-throated Needletails at 2.30 pm, between
30 and 40 birds, flying low above the headland. Conditions were sunny and
humid, and the birds disappeared from view in only a couple of minutes.

Richard



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Subject: Re: bird call recognition app.
From: Charles <ccgfh AT yahoo.com.au>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 23:49:56 +0800
Hi Michael,

Worth noting is that SHAZAM cannot decipher / translate live music or a person 
singing the song into their phone / the application. Even if they have a good 
voice very similar to the original artist. However I believe there is an app 
that claims to be able to do this. 


If the song is not in their (SHAZAM) database it can't be picked up.....

I've tried singing into the phone a couple of times and it doesn't work.

Specifically in relation to birds, getting the speaker device close to the bird 
calling could also be a challenge in many instances? 


I haven't read this email thread so apologies if I'm repeating the thoughts of 
others. 


Cheers,
Charles Hunter

> On 17 Oct 2014, at 10:42 am, "Michael Hunter"  
wrote: 

> 
> Thankyou for all the replies to my enquiry about bird call recognition apps., 
all of which answered in the negative, for the time being at least 

> 
> The most erudite reply (Paul Dodd) did give some hope, the University of 
Wisconsin has a project called “WeBird” , incorporating sophisticated 
averaging, but requiring enormous computing power, multiple servers, and a huge 
memory bank of calls. Paul didn’t say whether this included Australian 
species. 

> 
> “Shazam” music recognition is remarkable, but is poor on the classics as 
Martin Butterfield notes. Must try it on “The Nightingale”. He also thinks 
that maybe an 80% recognition rate for birds should be relatively easy to 
achieve on a dedicated app. 

> 
> Maybe Fred van Gessel could get the “wetware between his ears” (thanks 
Carl), and his tapes, into an Oz memory bank . Surely the common calls would be 
easy enough to recognise. I originally asked the app question after racking my 
own wetware for days after hearing a Jacky Winter call at Gundy different to 
the repertoire of my local Mulgoa family. Eventually saw the caller. Checked on 
the PKBirds app, where it is listed, very strangely, under “Winter Jacky”. 
(What happened to “ Flycatcher Brown”, not catchy enough? ) The calls 
recorded there were similar but different to those at Gundy confirming that 
recording all the possibilities for all the birds would be a giant job. 
Particularly as about half our songbirds indulge in mimicry from time to time. 

> 
>               Cheers
> 
>                    Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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Subject: Re: The Atlas and Yet another listing app!
From: Michael Tarburton <tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 21:03:30 +1100
G'day Graeme & other readers


 From gleaning all the swift & swiftlet records I can from as many  
sources I can, I am finding that e-bird often has 2-5 records of the  
same group trip, and I am finding that some of these are being  
filtered out by the Aussie atlas but but not all.  biocache can have  
even more duplicate entries as it takes from numerous sources, and I  
spend much time amalgamating duplicate entries.  It gets very  
frustrating.

Ideally it would be best to have just one program to send Aussie data  
to.  But little in this world is ideal.

Please do not give up placing your observations in one atlas or  
another, and PLEASE GIVE ONLY ONE DATE & PROVIDE THE NUMBER OF EACH  
SPECIES YOU SAW.

E-bird has data from the birdlife atlas and they have really messed  
up some of the dates - where a period is given rather a single day.

Cheers & Happy birding

Mike


>
> Just as an aside: I notice on eBird that when browsing recent  
> entries there are often multiple entries for what appears to be the  
> same survey or outing. e.g. say a group of 5 observers visit a site  
> and record 23 species - there are at times five different entries  
> all for the same 23 species.
>
> I do hope the Atlas moderator ditches 4 of the 5???  or we would  
> surely be biasing abundance ratios etc. I wonder if that is the case?
>




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Subject: Re Banding
From: "Philip Veerman" <pveerman AT pcug.org.au>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 13:51:23 +1100
Is there anyone not already bored by this (or wasn't last time or the time
before that)? The anti banding lobby raising the same old rhetorical
questions with little or nothing to back it up. Surely the efforts of these
people whether based on any conservation concern or concern over animal
welfare issues, could be better addressed to the real problems impacting on
waders; such as loss of coastal habitat in Asia (and no doubt in Australia
too), and hunting of them for food by people in many parts of the world
(probably mainly Asia).

This is one of the worst divergent of original email discussions. A
completely innocent item about Buddigower Nature Reserve. Has nothing to do
with waders anyway...... If everything goes off track like this, probably
people will stop contributing........

Whilst I am whinging, why don't people delete the long list of prior
messages and multiple [Birding-Aus] footers before forwarding again.....

Philip



-----Original Message-----From: Birding-Aus
[mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT birding-aus.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Ambrose
Sent: Saturday, 18 October 2014 9:53 AM
To: 'Ian May'; 'Peter Shute'	Cc: 'geoff jones barra images';
birding-aus AT birding-aus.org	Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip
to Buddigower Nature Reserve take2


Ian,

You have repeatedly expressed your concerns about bird banding on
Birding-aus for several years now.  In all those discussions you refer to
data that supposedly indicate bird numbers are declining due to banding, leg
flagging, cannon-netting etc. Yet when others on Birding-aus have repeatedly
requested that you identify the data or photographs that you are referring
to, or make them available, it is met with silence.  How can we have a
sensible discussion on this topic if you fail to produce
scientifically-robust evidence in support of your claims? Even if the data
that you are using aren't scientifically-robust, it is still worth making
them available to Birding-aus so that a discussion of the merits of the data
and validity of the conclusions can occur.

Stephen Ambrose
Ryde NSW 




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