Birdingonthe.Net Recent Postings from The Australia Birding List > Home > Mail > Alerts Updated on Thursday, November 5 at 03:00 AM ET The most recently received Mail is at the top.	Pygmy Falcon,©Barry Kent Mackay

05 Nov Re: Rare Bird Alert Website [Ian May ] 5 Nov Hall's Babbler Fowler's Gap [Peter Waanders ] 05 Nov Black-bellied Storm Petrels off Sydney. ["Paul Walbridge" ] 5 Nov RE: BARC website ["Billinghurst, David (RTATECH)" ] 5 Nov Re: Satin-Leaden Flycatchers again [Rod Gardner ] 5 Nov RE: Rare Bird Alerts Data Capture [Simon Mustoe ] 5 Nov Re: BARC website [Alistair McKeough ] 04 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Colin R" ] 4 Nov BARC website [Alistair McKeough ] 5 Nov Re: Red-necked Crake etc. ["Alan Gillanders" ] 5 Nov Re: Rare Bird Alert Website [David Richardson ] 5 Nov Re: Rare Bird Alerts Data Capture [David Stowe ] 4 Nov Rare Bird Alerts Data Capture [Richard Baxter ] 5 Nov RE: Rare Bird Alert Website [Peter Shute ] 5 Nov RE: Rare Bird Alert Operator ["Tony Russell" ] 5 Nov RE: Rare Bird Alert Website ["Tony Russell" ] 5 Nov RE: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Tony Russell" ] 5 Nov Darwin, Little Grebe still present... ["Peter Kyne" ] 5 Nov Re: Pay for Rare Bird Alert...surely not? [David Stowe ] 5 Nov Rare Bird Alert Operator [Carl Clifford ] 5 Nov Re: Rare Bird Alert Website [John Leonard ] 4 Nov Pay for Rare Bird Alert...surely not? [Simon Mustoe ] 4 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Mike Collard" ] 4 Nov Re: Rare Bird Alert Website ["Rosemary Royle" ] 4 Nov Re: Rare Bird Alert Website [Chris Sanderson ] 04 Nov Re: Red-necked Crake etc. [Kingfisher Park Birdwatchers Lodge ] 4 Nov Re: Rare Bird Alert Website [Russell Woodford ] 4 Nov Re: Satin-Leaden Flycatchers again ["Allan Richardson" ] 4 Nov Re: Brush Turkey invasion ["Tom and Mandy Wilson" ] 4 Nov Rare Bird Alert Website [Luke Shelley ] 4 Nov Snowy and Kentish Plovers Split [L&L Knight ] 4 Nov A different sort of fanatical birding [L&L Knight ] 4 Nov Re: Mangrove Removal a threat to Rufous Owls in Cairns [Peter Shute ] 4 Nov Red-necked Crake etc. [Phil & Sue Gregory ] 4 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [L&L Knight ] 4 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [John Tongue ] 4 Nov Mangrove Removal a threat to Rufous Owls in Cairns ["Alan Gillanders" ] 3 Nov wnp ["Michael Hunter" ] 4 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Graham Turner" ] 3 Nov Little Stint at Woorinen VIC 02 November 2009 [Peter Lansley ] 4 Nov Black-bellied Storm-Petrels off Sydney ["Roger McGovern" ] 4 Nov correction re: Brush Turkeys & Koel hosts [Andrew Taylor ] 04 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["licole AT ozemail.com.au" ] 3 Nov Re: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben ["Chris Corben" ] 4 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Graham Turner" ] 04 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [Denise Goodfellow ] 04 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [Penny Brockman ] 4 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Peter Madvig" ] 4 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Alan Gillanders" ] 04 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [Denise Goodfellow ] 4 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [Carl Clifford ] 04 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [Denise Goodfellow ] 04 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [Denise Goodfellow ] 3 Nov Re: Needletails near Brisbane ["Trevor Ford" ] 4 Nov Re: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben [Peter Shute ] 2 Nov Brush Turkey locations, NSW ["Richard Johnstone" ] 3 Nov Re: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben ["Chris Corben" ] 2 Nov Needletails near Brisbane ["Trevor Ford" ] 01 Nov Re: Rainforest: The Secret of Life [Syd Curtis ] 3 Nov Report on Black-necked Stalkers twitch results ["Greg & Val Clancy" ] 3 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [John Tongue ] 3 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [Chris Sanderson ] 3 Nov Re: Brush Turkey invasion ?? ["Richard Johnstone" ] 3 Nov RE: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo [Tim Jones ] 3 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Bob Green" ] 3 Nov Carpentarian Grasswrens [] 3 Nov RE: Marvellous display [inger vandyke ] 03 Nov Marvellous display [Alan McBride ] 3 Nov Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Keith Brandwood" ] 3 Nov Re: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben [Tom Tarrant ] 3 Nov RE: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben [Peter Ewin ] 3 Nov fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben ["Peter Menkhorst" ] 03 Nov Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo ["Colin R" ] 3 Nov RE: Brush Turkey invasion ?? ["Stephen Ambrose" ] 03 Nov Re: Brush Turkey invasion [brian fleming ] 03 Nov Re: Brush Turkey invasion ?? [Paul Burcher ] Subject: Re: Rare Bird Alert Website From: Ian May <birding AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:49:06 +1100 If we pay a bit more can we get rarer birds reported sooner? John Leonard wrote: >I think keep it simple, remember that a lot of old fogeys like myself >haven't caught up with Web 2.0 apps like Twitter and Facebook. > >A susbscription web-page with a feed. New reports are posted at the >top with all the details and contacts. > >What could be simpler? > >John Leonard > >2009/11/4 Rosemary Royle : > > >>Thanks Luke for such an excellent and thoughtful post - it certainly helped me understand how tools like Twitter could be sensibly exploited. >> >>Rosemary. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Luke Shelley >> To: Birding Aus >> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:52 AM >> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Rare Bird Alert Website >> >> >> Great to see some good conversations recently on the subject of birding >> internet sites, and new online tools for birding. Interesting to note is >> that Twitter did not seem to feature in the recent conversation regarding >> the *Rare Bird Alert Website*, yet it is probably the best suited (and by >> that I mean the technology, and not the brand name itself) to meet the >> seemingly increasing demands of 'real-time' mass communication of bird >> sightings. The following is an email to Birding-Aus that I intended to post >> last week in response to the *Birdlines on Twitter* discussion, but it is >> related to the current discussion on *Rare Bird Alert Websites*: >> >> Social Networking (the umbrella that covers Twitter, Facebook, MySpace etc) >> might appear to be a relatively new thing, but in fact they are just tools >> for online networking. This website, and a number of other locally produced >> birding websites, are also prime examples of Social Networking. Birders have >> been doing it for years. >> >> It is inevitable that birders will eventually make the transition to using >> these tools. Why? Because they are tailored perfectly (well, almost >> perfectly) to what we already do, but they will enhance and enrich our >> experience. One other reason that this form of communication is inevitable >> is that young people of today are brought up with this medium for >> communication, and they use it everyday. By that, I mean that they have a >> standard way that they expect to receive information. >> >> It is interesting to note some of the comments regarding the introduction of >> Birdlines to Twitter, "clutter" being one of them. I agree that it seems >> like clutter with all of the new online tools and mobile apps that are >> pushed upon us. I also agree that they are somewhat prohibitive given the >> cost, but that will change (or at least come down) over time. However, from >> the perspective of the next and future generation of birders, "clutter" >> would be a word they would use to describe this very website, and a number >> of others that are commonly used by birders in Australia. That is purely >> because these websites are not presented in a way that a reader can quickly >> and easily gather the information they want. The new world wants the answer, >> and they want it right away, with minimum effort. >> >> Lets look at a couple of examples of where these new tools can enhance what >> we currently do in the birding world: >> 1. The use of birdlines >> Scenario 1 (Current): A birder goes out to the WTP for day. During the day >> the birder passes a number of other birders, waving as they go by, as they >> do not really know these people. The following day the birder is looking at >> Birdline, and notices that someone has posted a sighting of a Ruff. The >> birder is disappointed as they did not see the Ruff. >> Scenario 2 (Future): A birder goes out to the WTP for a day. The birder is a >> subscriber to the new Birdline Twitter feed. Whilst at the plant the birder >> receives a live Twitter update that there is a Ruff at the Borrow Pits. The >> birder quickly drives down there, and meets with the other birder who just >> posted the sighting only minutes earlier. The birder now has a new tick, and >> a new friend. >> >> 2. Twitching amongst specific groups >> Scenario 1 (Current): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. One >> particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he >> has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen >> friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, so he calls them >> on his mobile, one by one. Who does he call first? >> Scenario 2 (Future): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. One >> particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he >> has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen >> friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, and he wants to >> let them all know at once, but doesn't particularly want to post the site on >> the website so everyone can see. Fortunately the twitcher and his friends >> have established a closed network so that they can only see each others >> posts, and no-one else can see the posts. The twitcher posts to his network, >> and all of his fellow twitchers receive the sighting instantly, all at the >> same time. They are all on their way, and will probably all arrive at the >> same time. >> >> I think the new social networking tools are great, but in their current form >> they are not ideal. As birders, we need to shape them into tools that are >> useful for what we love doing most: birding! >> >> *End of original email* >> * >> * >> With regards to the latest discussion on Rare Bird Alert Websites, I would >> like to bring up a couple of extra points, along the same lines as above. >> >> Firstly, there appears to be an assumption that the users of such websites >> are only after rare or unusual sightings - I believe that this is not >> entirely true. Speaking for myself, being a novice birder I use the websites >> not only to find rare birds, but also to pick up reasonably common or >> seasonal birds that I do not yet have on my list. By creating a website that >> only posts sightings of rare birds (subjectively), we are restricting the >> use of the site, and limiting the possibilities of what the site can become. >> A far better way would be to base postings on user defined choices, or >> automated rules through coding. Sooner or later birding websites are going >> to become so inundated that manual moderation of the site will become almost >> impossible. It would be very easy to code in specific rules that >> automatically moderate a website so that particular species or locations >> would or would not be shown. Along with modern day geographic information >> systems (GIS), this could easily become spatially based rules as well. Any >> sightings that 'break the rules' so to speak could then be flagged for >> manual moderation. >> >> Secondly, the real power of any of these websites is in the contributors. I >> have seen some nice looking birding websites out there, but they are not >> currently successful because they do not have a wealth of contribution that >> some of the other sites have. I believe this comes down to 'usability', >> which relates to my comment of 'clutter' in my initial email above. There is >> currently also the issue of all of these different tools and websites on >> offer that are not in one central location. >> >> For those of you that are keen, do some searching on "Web 2.0" on the >> internet (Wikipedia is a good start). Next time you visit your favourite >> birding website, ask yourself these questions: >> What is it I want to do? >> What do I have to do to do it? (i.e. what are the steps involved, how many >> clicks does it take to get there, how easy is it to do) >> How is the information displayed? Can you think of better ways? Or is this >> display perfect as it is? >> How long does it take to display in this way? Are maps too slow? >> What ways would you like to display or filter the information in your own >> way? >> >> The more of us that write down these ideas, the more we can formulate them >> into a 'business case' and present them to the current website owners, or >> indeed to a budding new website designer. I have plenty of ideas I have >> already put on paper, and I would be more than willing to discuss them with >> anyone here. They range from ways to mass communicate (e.g. twitter etc), to >> social networks for creating and sharing bird lists, events etc (e.g. >> Facebook etc), all the way to submitting survey and Atlas records. The >> possibilities are endless. >> >> I see our birding websites, including this one, as more than just a place to >> post and discuss rare bird sightings. I see them as a gateway to the great >> pastime of birding, for novices and veterans alike, and the more we come to >> realise that, the many more people will come to enjoy birding both now and >> into the future. >> >> Regards, >> >> Luke >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.48/2479 - Release Date: 11/03/09 19:38:00 >>www.birding-aus.org >>birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>send the message: >>unsubscribe >>(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> >> >> > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.48/2479 - Release Date: 11/03/09 19:38:00 > > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Hall's Babbler Fowler's Gap From: Peter Waanders <waanders.peter AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 16:05:04 +1030 Hi birders, I recently came across a mention of Hall's Babbler for the Fowlers Gap Research Station in far-western NSW (north of Broken Hill). Does anyone know if they're actually present at this location? Has anyone been there? cheers Peter ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Black-bellied Storm Petrels off Sydney. From: "Paul Walbridge" <Paul_Walbridge AT health.qld.gov.au> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:13:29 +1000 Hi All, I've never been quite able to work out how Black-bellied Storm Petrels are so rarely seen off Wollongong/Sydney when just a few hundred kilometres to the north in SEQ waters one is virtually guaranteed to see them anytime June - November. I'm not talking in ones or twos either, up to 33 in a day. Just to the south of Wollongong off of Ulladulla (admittedly in very deep water) on two October trips in a row we encountered quite large numbers of the species. Cheers - Paul W. ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: RE: BARC website From: "Billinghurst, David (RTATECH)" <David.Billinghurst AT riotinto.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:58:53 +1100 > From: Alistair McKeough > > Could somebody point me in the direction of BARC's website. I > think it used to be kindly hosted by Tony Palliser on his > bigpond, but the link I have seems to be dead. http://www.tonypalliser.com/barc/barc-home.html This email is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately and delete this message from your system without first printing or copying it. Any personal data in this email (including any attachments) must be handled in accordance with the Rio Tinto Group Data Protection Policy and all applicable data protection laws. ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: Satin-Leaden Flycatchers again From: Rod Gardner <r.gardner AT griffith.edu.au> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:53:36 +1000 Hi Allan, Thanks, Allan. It's good to hear from someone who has been trying to work out if you can split these two on calls. Your answer is pretty much what I suspected - that it's extremely difficult because of the variation in the calls of LF (I wouldn't know about SF). One question this raises, though, is whether the BOCA calls are reliable. As I said in my original posting, the call I heard at Anstead was almost identical to the first call for SF on the BOCA recordings. I don't doubt that that recording is of a SF, but does anyone know if LF might produce the same call? Rod From: "Allan Richardson" To: , "Rod Gardner" Date: 04/11/09 09:18 PM Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Satin-Leaden Flycatchers again Hi Rod In recent years I've been pretty keen to test the calls of SF compared with LF. And over the past few seasons have tracked down many a variation on the LF call suspecting that a SF would show itself, only to find LF. A week ago I was working on the Newnes Plateau in the western Blue Mountains and encountered LF regularly, most deviating from the calls that I am used to hearing on the Central Coast where I live. The last flycatcher call I encountered during the week sounded very much like a LF, but turned out to be a SF. I have heard SF in the past, which sounded different to LF calls, but I suspect, from my own experiences, that the variation of call within each species may make it hard to draw some general rules of thumb here. Regards Allan Richardson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Gardner" To: Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:14 AM Subject: [Birding-Aus] Satin-Leaden Flycatchers again > Following up on the Leaden/Satin Flycatcher thread, I have another > question about these birds. Leaden Flycatchers are common on my local > patch in the west of Brisbane, and I’m familiar with their calls. Recently > I heard a call that was Leaden Flycatcher-like, but not one I’d heard > before. I didn’t get to see the bird, as it was in a densely vegetated > gully, but recorded the call on a digital voice recorder. When I got home > and checked it with the BOCA recordings, it was pretty much identical to > the first calls of the Satin Flycatcher on those tapes. However, according > to HANZAB, the calls of LFs and SFs are very similar, with lots of > individual variation, and it says they are separable only with practice. > Can anyone say whether that first Satin call on the BOCA tapes is > diagnostic? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Rare Bird Alerts Data Capture From: Simon Mustoe <simonmustoe AT hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 04:42:43 +0000 David, We're working on it. Wildiaries has been built with exactly that in mind. The coding behind it offers the chance to integrate all these facilities, whilst retaining the existing sites, empowering the existing administrators and improving the reach of each birding network. It takes time and money though... Regards, Simon. > From: davidstowe AT optusnet.com.au > To: cookilaria AT yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Rare Bird Alerts Data Capture > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:47:03 +1100 > CC: richard AT birdingtours.com.au; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > > Fantastic points raised here Richard and I'm not sure what we do about > it. > As an avid birder/low level twitcher I actually find it confusing with > the number of different outlets - ie do i post to Birding-Aus, eremea, > Birds Australia Atlas, Birdpedia ...etc ..or do i too just put it in > the too hard basket and just call a couple of mates?! So bringing > those perspectives together with one united system would be great - > easier to publicise to the masses and less confusing for the others? > > Cheers > Dave > > On 05/11/2009, at 12:19 PM, Richard Baxter wrote: > > > > Hello Birders, > Personally I don't have a great problem with the > current methods of disseminating data in relation to rarity > sightings. In most cases, the information gets through relatively > quickly, whether its phone call, text, birding-aus or eremaea etc. > > I admit receiving sighting details in real-time would be great but my > biggest issue is not the receiving of information but the CAPTURE of > information. > > We have to have the sighting information before we can send it out to > the masses. The single most frustrating element of twitching is > obviously dipping and I've lost count of the number of rarities that > have been reported, days and often over a week after they were first > seen. > > The question is: How do we make it easy for people to report their > sightings? > > The reality is that only a very small percentage of people birding in > Australia are on Birding-Aus and even fewer have ever heard of > Eremaea. Most don't know who or what to ring and therefore many > sightings go unreported. > > There are many examples. > > 1. Grey-headed Lapwing. Not reported on B-Aus until days after the > initial sighting, Why? > > 2. Last year I dropped into a remote property near Broome and was > talking to the owner, an old bloke, who had built a rain forest in his > backyard. He told me he had seen Blue and White Flycatcher and Red- > legged Crake in recent years at the pond near his back door! > I said," Did you let anyone know, they're pretty interesting birds to > see?" He said," I wouldn't know who to tell, mate." > > 3. A couple of years ago I twitched a bird that had been reported on B- > Aus and dipped. Whilst at the location I ran into the bloke that > found the bird and ascertained it had arrived 10 days ago and hadn't > been seen for the last two days. I asked him why he didn't tell > someone sooner and he said," I didn't know who to tell, I've only ever > met one serious birdwatcher and that was some bloke from Melbourne, > 20yrs ago." > > There are thousands of people out there birding everyday, the same > thousands that are buying the thousands of field guides each year from > bookshops. > > Q. A grey nomad sitting in front of his caravan looking over the lake > in Kununurra sees a Grey Heron land on the bank 30m away. He checks > his field guide and reads that Grey Heron is very rare in Australia. > He's not an avid birder, hasn't got the internet in his van and knows > no keen birders to ring. How does he tell anyone about the sighting?? > > How do we capture these sightings to put on rare bird alerts? > > > Cheers > Richard Baxter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. > Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/ > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== _________________________________________________________________ New Windows 7: Simplify what you do everyday. Find the right PC for you. http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/buy/==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: BARC website From: Alistair McKeough <alistair.mckeough AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 15:22:22 +1100 Thank you everyone for your responses. It appear that my link was correct and that Telstra was just having a wobbly when I was trying to look yesterday, so the site was down. Alistair 2009/11/4 Alistair McKeough > Could somebody point me in the direction of BARC's website. I think it used > to be kindly hosted by Tony Palliser on his bigpond, but the link I have > seems to be dead. > > Has it moved? > > Alistair > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Colin R" <jangles AT fastmail.fm> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:12:19 +1000 Hi all Just like to make an observation relating to accessing private property - in my experience this is a real issue in Australia. Owners seem to have some sort of possession fixation relating to their vast, mostly uninhabitated land! In the UK and Ireland there is a much more flexible, friendly attitude towards birders and others, such as walkers, accessing property. In most cases so long as gates are left as found - usually closed - and stock left unmolested, there is no major drama. Please do not equate my comments to some one walking through MY front yard - its not the same, sorry, can't accept that argument. The fact that some people do access property for the purposes of shooting illegally - that I can accept - but its usually fairly obvious you're not carrying a rifle, isn't it? Anyway - must away - thanks for your time! Cheers Colin Chris's observations regarding the deaths of rare vagrants may, repeat may, have some truth - however, in general birders are not seen as such a threat as they often appear here and yes, I too have heard of the issues on the Scilly Isles, but we are talking extremes here, not the norm. On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:56 +0930, "Denise Goodfellow" wrote: > I'd be interested in seeing Laurie's research. I've some US papers that > mention this as well. > > I've twice, in 26 years, been guiding birders who have either entered > private property or gone into sensitive habitat. The last one, a woman > just > a few months ago, entered a preschool grounds after a bird. A few have > been > disgruntled when I refused to play tapes to call up birds in particular > areas. > > The biggest issue in the Top End that I'm aware of is birders entering > the > sewage ponds without a permit, resulting in management becoming very > upset > to the point of threatening to arrest them. Consequently, access to the > ponds has been further tightened. > > However, in my experience up here, combat or gonzo birders (as they're > called in the US) tend to put themselves at risk more than the birds, for > instance insisting on going out when it's very hot and humid. Two, whom I > refused to accompany one stinking hot afternoon, later collapsed with > heat > exhaustion. > > The desire to systematise eg by stamp collecting or twitching, seems to > be a > feature of the male brain according to research I've read. > Denise > > Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow > PO Box 3460 NT 0832, AUSTRALIA > Ph. 61 08 89 328306 > Mobile: 04 386 50 835 > > Birdwatching and Indigenous tourism consultant > PhD Candidate > > http://www.denisegoodfellow.com.au > http://www.earthfoot.org > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming > http://www.ausbird.com > http://birderstravel.com > http://www.theloveofood.com (Rowan Goodfellow Thompson) > > > > on 3/11/09 9:40 PM, Chris Sanderson at chris.sanderson AT gmail.com wrote: > > > Hi Tim, > > > > I believe in the UK a small number of rare birds have died from constant > > harassment leading to an inability to feed to recover from a long trip. > > This is possibly what Peter is referring to? Also I hear from various > > sources of cases where twitchers (usually identity unknown) have been > > observed by landholders to tresspass to look for birds. This still appears > > to be a sadly common occurrence, though as you say, its not fair to tar all > > twitchers with that brush as I know many who wouldn't enter a property > > without permission. However those that do give all birders, not just > > twitchers, a bad name with the general public. > > > > I will say this though, a recent study by our own Dr Laurie Knight showed > > that the more fanatical a twitcher is, the less they care about > > conservation. That's hard data from a fairly broad survey there (I hope > > I've paraphrased your work correctly there Laurie, feel free to jump in if > > I'm misquoting). > > > > As for earlier questions about collectors, I'd love to hear from someone in > > the customs department, but I know for a fact they are still finding living > > animals being smuggled, and I have little doubt that the same would go for > > dead animals - there are a lot of people for whom collecting skins/specimens > > is akin to stamp collecting (or pokemon for the younger people out there > > reading this...gotta catch em all). Look no further than our own official > > bodies - out there looking to collect one or several of the newly found > > Spotted Quail-Thrush in Far North QLD before they even know if its a new > > species or even how many there are in the population... > > > > Back to the point at hand. I thought the objection was over GPS > > co-ordinates being given in an open online forum. A general location in the > > email with an offer of directions offline would be fine I would think, as > > suggested by an earlier poster. At least that means someone wanting to > > break the law has to leave evidence in the form of an email if they want the > > details. > > > > Regards, > > Chris > > > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Tim Jones wrote: > > > >> > >> Peter, > >> > >> > >> > >> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just > >> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm they > >> do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of something which > >> has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many > >> 'fanatical twitches' in my time. > >> > >> > >> > >> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most > >> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want > >> future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and > >> wonderful wildlife. > >> > >> > >> > >> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of statement > >> tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. > >> > >> > >> > >> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. > >> > >> > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> > >> > >> Tim > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com > >>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com > >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > >>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 > >>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; > >>> > >>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe > >> that > >>> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their collection. Its > >> no > >>> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed > >> recently > >>> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on > >> the > >>> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the > >>> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a > >> person > >>> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to get > >>> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical Twitchers get > >> up > >>> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give > >> information > >>> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such > >>> behaviour. > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Peter Shute" > >>> To: ; > >>> Cc: ; > >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > >>> > >>> > >>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but > >> would > >>>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? > >>>> > >>>> Peter Shute > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -------------------------- > >>>> Sent using BlackBerry > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > >>>> > >>>> To: Keith Brandwood > >>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > >>>> > >>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 > >>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > >>>> > >>>> Keith, > >>>> > >>>> I heartily agree. > >>>> > >>>> Carl Clifford > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as > >>>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. > >>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to > >>>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after > >>>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. > >>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> To: > >>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" > >>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM > >>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi All, > >>>> > >>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David > >>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in > >>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on > >>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The > >>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of > >>>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There > >>>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, > >>>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of > >>>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg > >>>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me > >>>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without > >>>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. > >>>> > >>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, > >>>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. > >>>> > >>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may > >>>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between > >>>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, > >>>> > >>>> Frank > >>>> > >>>> Frank Hemmings > >>>> Curator > >>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium > >>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences > >>>> University of New South Wales > >>>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 > >>>> AUSTRALIA > >>>> > >>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 > >>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 > >>>> > >>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G > >>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org > >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com > >>>> > >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > >>>> send the message: > >>>> unsubscribe > >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > >>>> ========== > >>>> =============================== > >>>> www.birding-aus.org > >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com > >>>> > >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > >>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > >>>> =============================== > >>>> > >>>> =============================== > >>>> www.birding-aus.org > >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com > >>>> > >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > >>>> send the message: > >>>> unsubscribe > >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > >>>> =============================== > >>>> > >>> > >>> =============================== > >>> www.birding-aus.org > >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com > >>> > >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > >>> send the message: > >>> unsubscribe > >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > >>> =============================== > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> View photos of singles in your area Click Here > >> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/www.birding-aus.org > >> birding-aus.blogspot.com > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > >> send the message: > >> unsubscribe > >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > >> > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== -- Colin Reid jangles AT fastmail.fm So many birds, so little time...... -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: BARC website From: Alistair McKeough <alistair.mckeough AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:52:33 +1100 Could somebody point me in the direction of BARC's website. I think it used to be kindly hosted by Tony Palliser on his bigpond, but the link I have seems to be dead. Has it moved? Alistair =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Red-necked Crake etc. From: "Alan Gillanders" <alan AT alanswildlifetours.com.au> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:11:45 +1000 G'day All, I concur about the Black-faced Monarchs. We had an early wave here on the Southern Tablelands and then nothing. Now a few. One calling in the yard as I type. Had Superb Fruit-doves on an egg but something got the egg without damaging the nest. A Victoria's Riflebird has built its snake-skin lined nest above the walkway to the Curtain Fig. You'll have to see the bird to find the nest. Regards, Alan Gillanders Alan's Wildlife Tours 2 Mather Road Yungaburra 4884 www.alanswildlifetours.com.au Phone 07 4095 3784 Int. + 61 7 4095 3784 Mobile 0408 953 786 Alan's blog http://alanswildlife.blogspot.com/ =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Rare Bird Alert Website From: David Richardson <albatrossvaldez AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 13:15:33 +1100 That wasnt you sending one up recently from the pond,was it Peter? On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Peter Shute wrote: > I hadn't thought of that. There may be others like Tony who will require a > smoke signal option. > > Peter Shute > > Tony Russell wrote on Thursday, 5 November 2009 11:04 AM: > > > What's Twitter and Facebook and Web 2.0 apps ?? I still don't use a > > mobile phone - too much to have to carry around (and expensive? ). > > Just watch birding-aus for all the info required. > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Rare Bird Alerts Data Capture From: David Stowe <davidstowe AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:47:03 +1100 Fantastic points raised here Richard and I'm not sure what we do about it. As an avid birder/low level twitcher I actually find it confusing with the number of different outlets - ie do i post to Birding-Aus, eremea, Birds Australia Atlas, Birdpedia ...etc ..or do i too just put it in the too hard basket and just call a couple of mates?! So bringing those perspectives together with one united system would be great - easier to publicise to the masses and less confusing for the others? Cheers Dave On 05/11/2009, at 12:19 PM, Richard Baxter wrote: Hello Birders, Personally I don't have a great problem with the current methods of disseminating data in relation to rarity sightings. In most cases, the information gets through relatively quickly, whether its phone call, text, birding-aus or eremaea etc. I admit receiving sighting details in real-time would be great but my biggest issue is not the receiving of information but the CAPTURE of information. We have to have the sighting information before we can send it out to the masses. The single most frustrating element of twitching is obviously dipping and I've lost count of the number of rarities that have been reported, days and often over a week after they were first seen. The question is: How do we make it easy for people to report their sightings? The reality is that only a very small percentage of people birding in Australia are on Birding-Aus and even fewer have ever heard of Eremaea. Most don't know who or what to ring and therefore many sightings go unreported. There are many examples. 1. Grey-headed Lapwing. Not reported on B-Aus until days after the initial sighting, Why? 2. Last year I dropped into a remote property near Broome and was talking to the owner, an old bloke, who had built a rain forest in his backyard. He told me he had seen Blue and White Flycatcher and Red- legged Crake in recent years at the pond near his back door! I said," Did you let anyone know, they're pretty interesting birds to see?" He said," I wouldn't know who to tell, mate." 3. A couple of years ago I twitched a bird that had been reported on B- Aus and dipped. Whilst at the location I ran into the bloke that found the bird and ascertained it had arrived 10 days ago and hadn't been seen for the last two days. I asked him why he didn't tell someone sooner and he said," I didn't know who to tell, I've only ever met one serious birdwatcher and that was some bloke from Melbourne, 20yrs ago." There are thousands of people out there birding everyday, the same thousands that are buying the thousands of field guides each year from bookshops. Q. A grey nomad sitting in front of his caravan looking over the lake in Kununurra sees a Grey Heron land on the bank 30m away. He checks his field guide and reads that Grey Heron is very rare in Australia. He's not an avid birder, hasn't got the internet in his van and knows no keen birders to ring. How does he tell anyone about the sighting?? How do we capture these sightings to put on rare bird alerts? Cheers Richard Baxter __________________________________________________________________________________ Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/ www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Rare Bird Alerts Data Capture From: Richard Baxter <cookilaria AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:19:51 -0800 (PST) Hello Birders,                    Personally I don't have a great problem with the current methods of disseminating data in relation to rarity sightings.  In most cases, the information gets through relatively quickly, whether its phone call, text, birding-aus or eremaea etc.    I admit receiving sighting details in real-time would be great but my biggest issue is not the receiving of information but the CAPTURE of information.   We have to have the sighting information before we can send it out to the masses.  The single most frustrating element of twitching is obviously dipping and I've lost count of the number of rarities that have been reported, days and often over a week after they were first seen.    The question is: How do we make it easy for people to report their sightings?   The reality is that only a very small percentage of people birding in Australia are on Birding-Aus and even fewer have ever heard of Eremaea.  Most don't know who or what to ring and therefore many sightings go unreported.    There are many examples.   1. Grey-headed Lapwing.  Not reported on B-Aus until days after the initial sighting, Why?   2. Last year I dropped into a remote property near Broome and was talking to the owner, an old bloke, who had built a rain forest in his backyard.  He told me he had seen Blue and White Flycatcher and Red-legged Crake in recent years at the pond near his back door! I said," Did you let anyone know, they're pretty interesting birds to see?"  He said," I wouldn't know who to tell, mate."   3. A couple of years ago I twitched a bird that had been reported on B-Aus and dipped.  Whilst at the location I ran into the bloke that found the bird and ascertained it had arrived 10 days ago and hadn't been seen for the last two days.  I asked him why he didn't tell someone sooner and he said," I didn't know who to tell, I've only ever met one serious birdwatcher and that was some bloke from Melbourne, 20yrs ago."   There are thousands of people out there birding everyday, the same thousands that are buying the thousands of field guides each year from bookshops.    Q.  A grey nomad sitting in front of his caravan looking over the lake in Kununurra sees a Grey Heron land on the bank 30m away. He checks his field guide and reads that Grey Heron is very rare in Australia.  He's not an avid birder, hasn't got the internet in his van and knows no keen birders to ring.  How does he tell anyone about the sighting??   How do we capture these sightings to put on rare bird alerts?     Cheers Richard Baxter                             __________________________________________________________________________________ Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/ ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: RE: Rare Bird Alert Website From: Peter Shute <pshute AT nuw.org.au> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 11:28:07 +1100 I hadn't thought of that. There may be others like Tony who will require a smoke signal option. Peter Shute Tony Russell wrote on Thursday, 5 November 2009 11:04 AM: > What's Twitter and Facebook and Web 2.0 apps ?? I still don't use a > mobile phone - too much to have to carry around (and expensive? ). > Just watch birding-aus for all the info required. ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: RE: Rare Bird Alert Operator From: "Tony Russell" <pratincole AT esc.net.au> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:35:30 +1030 Nah ! Just watch b-a. T. -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Carl Clifford Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:57 AM To: Birding-Aus Aus Subject: [Birding-Aus] Rare Bird Alert Operator There seem to be quite a few out there who are in favour of a rare bird alert system. Unfortunately no one has put up their hand to operate the system. I presume that the organisation and operation is to be left up to the marvellous multi-skilled they. Cheers, Carl Clifford =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Rare Bird Alert Website From: "Tony Russell" <pratincole AT esc.net.au> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:34:20 +1030 What's Twitter and Facebook and Web 2.0 apps ?? I still don't use a mobile phone - too much to have to carry around (and expensive? ). Just watch birding-aus for all the info required. Tony. . -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of John Leonard Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 8:47 AM To: Birding-aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Rare Bird Alert Website I think keep it simple, remember that a lot of old fogeys like myself haven't caught up with Web 2.0 apps like Twitter and Facebook. A susbscription web-page with a feed. New reports are posted at the top with all the details and contacts. What could be simpler? John Leonard 2009/11/4 Rosemary Royle : > Thanks Luke for such an excellent and thoughtful post - it certainly > helped me understand how tools like Twitter could be sensibly > exploited. > > Rosemary. >  ----- Original Message ----- >  From: Luke Shelley >  To: Birding Aus >  Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:52 AM >  Subject: [Birding-Aus] Rare Bird Alert Website > > >  Great to see some good conversations recently on the subject of > birding >  internet sites, and new online tools for birding. Interesting to note is >  that Twitter did not seem to feature in the recent conversation regarding >  the *Rare Bird Alert Website*, yet it is probably the best suited (and by >  that I mean the technology, and not the brand name itself) to meet the >  seemingly increasing demands of 'real-time' mass communication of bird >  sightings. The following is an email to Birding-Aus that I intended to post >  last week in response to the *Birdlines on Twitter* discussion, but it is >  related to the current discussion on *Rare Bird Alert Websites*: > >  Social Networking (the umbrella that covers Twitter, Facebook, > MySpace etc) >  might appear to be a relatively new thing, but in fact they are just tools >  for online networking. This website, and a number of other locally produced >  birding websites, are also prime examples of Social Networking. Birders have >  been doing it for years. > >  It is inevitable that birders will eventually make the transition to > using >  these tools. Why? Because they are tailored perfectly (well, almost >  perfectly) to what we already do, but they will enhance and enrich our >  experience. One other reason that this form of communication is inevitable >  is that young people of today are brought up with this medium for >  communication, and they use it everyday. By that, I mean that they have a >  standard way that they expect to receive information. > >  It is interesting to note some of the comments regarding the > introduction of >  Birdlines to Twitter, "clutter" being one of them. I agree that it seems >  like clutter with all of the new online tools and mobile apps that are >  pushed upon us. I also agree that they are somewhat prohibitive given the >  cost, but that will change (or at least come down) over time. However, from >  the perspective of the next and future generation of birders, "clutter" >  would be a word they would use to describe this very website, and a number >  of others that are commonly used by birders in Australia. That is purely >  because these websites are not presented in a way that a reader can quickly >  and easily gather the information they want. The new world wants the answer, >  and they want it right away, with minimum effort. > >  Lets look at a couple of examples of where these new tools can > enhance what >  we currently do in the birding world: >  1. The use of birdlines >  Scenario 1 (Current): A birder goes out to the WTP for day. During the day >  the birder passes a number of other birders, waving as they go by, as they >  do not really know these people. The following day the birder is looking at >  Birdline, and notices that someone has posted a sighting of a Ruff. The >  birder is disappointed as they did not see the Ruff. >  Scenario 2 (Future): A birder goes out to the WTP for a day. The birder is a >  subscriber to the new Birdline Twitter feed. Whilst at the plant the birder >  receives a live Twitter update that there is a Ruff at the Borrow Pits. The >  birder quickly drives down there, and meets with the other birder who just >  posted the sighting only minutes earlier. The birder now has a new tick, and >  a new friend. > >  2. Twitching amongst specific groups >  Scenario 1 (Current): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. > One >  particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he >  has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen >  friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, so he calls them >  on his mobile, one by one. Who does he call first? >  Scenario 2 (Future): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. One >  particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he >  has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen >  friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, and he wants to >  let them all know at once, but doesn't particularly want to post the site on >  the website so everyone can see. Fortunately the twitcher and his friends >  have established a closed network so that they can only see each others >  posts, and no-one else can see the posts. The twitcher posts to his network, >  and all of his fellow twitchers receive the sighting instantly, all at the >  same time. They are all on their way, and will probably all arrive at the >  same time. > >  I think the new social networking tools are great, but in their > current form >  they are not ideal. As birders, we need to shape them into tools that are >  useful for what we love doing most: birding! > >  *End of original email* >  * >  * >  With regards to the latest discussion on Rare Bird Alert Websites, I > would >  like to bring up a couple of extra points, along the same lines as above. > >  Firstly, there appears to be an assumption that the users of such > websites >  are only after rare or unusual sightings - I believe that this is not >  entirely true. Speaking for myself, being a novice birder I use the websites >  not only to find rare birds, but also to pick up reasonably common or >  seasonal birds that I do not yet have on my list. By creating a website that >  only posts sightings of rare birds (subjectively), we are restricting the >  use of the site, and limiting the possibilities of what the site can become. >  A far better way would be to base postings on user defined choices, or >  automated rules through coding. Sooner or later birding websites are going >  to become so inundated that manual moderation of the site will become almost >  impossible. It would be very easy to code in specific rules that >  automatically moderate a website so that particular species or locations >  would or would not be shown. Along with modern day geographic information >  systems (GIS), this could easily become spatially based rules as well. Any >  sightings that 'break the rules' so to speak could then be flagged for >  manual moderation. > >  Secondly, the real power of any of these websites is in the > contributors. I >  have seen some nice looking birding websites out there, but they are not >  currently successful because they do not have a wealth of contribution that >  some of the other sites have. I believe this comes down to 'usability', >  which relates to my comment of 'clutter' in my initial email above. There is >  currently also the issue of all of these different tools and websites on >  offer that are not in one central location. > >  For those of you that are keen, do some searching on "Web 2.0" on the >  internet (Wikipedia is a good start). Next time you visit your > favourite >  birding website, ask yourself these questions: >  What is it I want to do? >  What do I have to do to do it? (i.e. what are the steps involved, how many >  clicks does it take to get there, how easy is it to do) >  How is the information displayed? Can you think of better ways? Or is this >  display perfect as it is? >  How long does it take to display in this way? Are maps too slow? >  What ways would you like to display or filter the information in your own >  way? > >  The more of us that write down these ideas, the more we can formulate > them >  into a 'business case' and present them to the current website owners, or >  indeed to a budding new website designer. I have plenty of ideas I have >  already put on paper, and I would be more than willing to discuss them with >  anyone here. They range from ways to mass communicate (e.g. twitter etc), to >  social networks for creating and sharing bird lists, events etc (e.g. >  Facebook etc), all the way to submitting survey and Atlas records. The >  possibilities are endless. > >  I see our birding websites, including this one, as more than just a > place to >  post and discuss rare bird sightings. I see them as a gateway to the great >  pastime of birding, for novices and veterans alike, and the more we come to >  realise that, the many more people will come to enjoy birding both now and >  into the future. > >  Regards, > >  Luke >  =============================== >  www.birding-aus.org >  birding-aus.blogspot.com > >  To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >  send the message: >  unsubscribe >  (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >  to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >  =============================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > > >  No virus found in this incoming message. >  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >  Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.48/2479 - Release Date: > 11/03/09 19:38:00 www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > -- John Leonard Canberra Australia www.jleonard.net "I rejoice that there are owls." Thoreau ==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =========== ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Tony Russell" <pratincole AT esc.net.au> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:28:56 +1030 Hi all, I found Mike's note interesting , particularly in para 2 in which he talks of UK twitchers travelling 200 miles for a bird. 200 Miles !! Well well, it's a bit different here in Oz where we frequently travel many thousands of km for a tick. I hate to think how often I've done Adelaide to Perth, Darwin, Cairns, Werribee, Cape York, The Kimberleys, Christmas Is, Ashmore Reef, Norfolk and Lord Howe, Tasmania, trips into the outback, etc etc in search of a single bird ( and usually getting it) and thinking little of it - except when I've dipped out like we did last weekend chasing the Southern Fulmar at Portland, pest of a thing !! Tony. -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Mike Collard Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 5:09 AM To: birding aus Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo Hi all, As a lurker from the UK ( although I have birded in Australia and enjoyed wonderful help from this email group ) I thought I should add some thoughts about twitching in the UK. 1) There are some who will go long distances and spend money to get a new UK bird; recent example was a Sandhill Crane on Orkney; not that easy to get to; damage to the environment is the fuel used to get folks there; it added some revenue to the island though! 2) There are many who will go 200 miles for a good bird; invariably collections are organised if it fits in with either the reserve the bird was found in or who found it; eg. the local non-birding vicar found a White-crowned Sparrow so an amazing £5k was collected; his church was blessed with some new glass including an image of the said Sparrow. 3) Twitching does not really cause a problem; I am sure many of the rares that are twitched never get to their destination anyway; now and again there is some trespass and sometimes the bird gets too much attention but that is about it in the UK; honest! The Isles of Scilly has done ok because of birders over the years; boatman make substantial money on ferrying birders around the small islands to catch up with rares. Lots of hotels and pubs are full of birders at certain times; again revenue generation. The serious and continuing danger to all our birds ( including common species ) are eggers, developers, shooters of game birds and duck, crooked and poor environmental consultants, insipid Councils and Governments over the years who let people with clout rule and sadly a number of landowners. The lack of insects in the countryside is frightening; go for a drive years ago and your car lights would get covered in insects, but not any more. Best/ Mike Collard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Brockman" To: "Tim Jones" Cc: ; "birding aus" Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > Fanatical twitchers in Australia are unlikely to be problem - so far. > However, I hear things are not so rosy in the UK where there are > 1,000s/10,000s ?? of fanatical twitchers prepared to fly from one end of > the country to the other at the drop of a new vagrant. The Scilly Isles > landowners seem to have a grouch and there have been reports of areas > closed from twitchers. > >> >> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just >> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm >> they do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of >> something which has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on >> many, many 'fanatical twitches' in my time. >> >> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but >> most >> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want >> future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and >> wonderful wildlife. >> >> >> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of >> statement >> tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. >> >> >> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do >>> believe >>> that there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their >>> collection. Its no different than collecting feathers a subject that as >>> been discussed recently on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be >>> a harmless pastime on the surface but you can imagine someone who as all >>> the feathers of all the parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I >>> could easily see such a person trying to find out where to find one and >>> going out and shooting it to get the feather.You only have to see what >>> some of the fanatical Twitchers get up to at times to understand the >>> need to be alert to whom you give information to. Thankfully it is only >>> a small minority that are involved in such behaviour. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Peter Shute" >>> To: ; >>> Cc: ; >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> >>> >>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) >>>> but >>>> would someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>>> >>>> Peter Shute >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------- >>>> Sent using BlackBerry >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> To: Keith Brandwood >>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> Keith, >>>> >>>> I heartily agree. >>>> >>>> Carl Clifford >>>> >>>> >>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>>> >>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such >>>> as the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is >>>> to ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then >>>> after vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>>> >>> To: >>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in >>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on >>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N >>>> of the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. >>>> There were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the >>>> smaller, further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to >>>> the end of Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google >>>> Earth 32deg 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a >>>> lifer for me which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this >>>> bird without expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>>> >>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest >>>> Rd, 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec >>>> E. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some >>>> may be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species >>>> between Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> Frank Hemmings >>>> Curator >>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences University >>>> of New South Wales UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> >>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>>> >>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> ========== >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> View photos of singles in your area Click Here >> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/======================== ======www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================ >> > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Darwin, Little Grebe still present... From: "Peter Kyne" <Peter.Kyne AT cdu.edu.au> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 09:08:28 +0930 Hi Birding Aussers, Thought I'd send an update from Darwin. The Little Grebe is still at Leanyer Sewage Ponds (we saw it again this morning), being faithful to the same pond. In other Darwin news: While there has been up to 4 Little Ringed Plovers seen at Leanyer since late August, we couldn't locate any this morning. Which doesn't mean they aren't there. They are easily overlooked. We saw 1 on Tuesday. Eastern Yellow Wagtails have generally been scarce at Leanyer (only a handful of reported sightings). There have been good numbers at Knuckey's Lagoons (Fiddlers Lane) though. Micha and I counted 15 there last weekend. 6 Australian Pratincoles remain at that site. Barn Swallows have been scarce. We have seen a single bird at Leanyer with Tree Martins on two consecutive days, but we have not seen one since October 12. The Botanic Gardens Rufous Owls are being very co-operative in the rainforest section of the gardens, now often perched side by side. Chestnut Rail is being seen consistently on the boat ramp side of Buffalo Creek (even in the carpark!). White-browed Crake is fairly easy to find at Fogg Dam. That location is always a joy to visit. Oriental Plovers are still making their regular mid morning visits to Nightcliff Rocks. 12 were seen yesterday. Little Curlews are around. Leanyer, the Fogg Dam area and Knuckey's Lagoon (Snipe Swamp) are all good locations. There has only been one report of a Snipe (presumed Swinhoe's) this season, and that was from McMinn's Lagoon. We await the arrival of the Oriental Pratincoles and hopefully some nice vagrants. There has been some mention on Birding Aus of access to Leanyer. While Power and Water are not giving out any more keys at the moment, current permit holders are still able to access the ponds. We are happy to take any birders. Cheers, Pete Kyne and Micha Jackson, Darwin, NT ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: Pay for Rare Bird Alert...surely not? From: David Stowe <davidstowe AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:28:47 +1100 Apologies if this has been brought up before (I don't remember seeing it but there has been ALOT of information in this topic and my head is swimming!) - but what is wrong with a simple SMS system? Everyone pretty much has a mobile phone and you will get better coverage with a phone than having to be able to access internet etc. Wouldn't this be the same as a pager (or better)? I recently switched to Telstra so that i had reception in more areas - my upcoming trip to Round Hill being a big consideration being away from my family/young baby etc (yes i have a wonderdul wife!). Sorry again if this has been mentioned and found to be a stupid idea :) Cheers David Stowe On 05/11/2009, at 9:06 AM, Simon Mustoe wrote: Hi, Time for me to chip in five cents! I agree wholeheartedly with all the comments regarding social networking tools. Fantastic opportunities for birding. Let's not forget though, that long before Twitter and various websites existed, we all had mobile phones and in times past could even access the 'world network' using a comprehensive system of pay phones around the country. So why then, do we still pine for a Rare Bird Alert System? The reason is that it's not just about what tool you use but how you go about it. There is one important part of the equation that has not yet been discussed in this forum. I used to know Dick Filby who runs Rare Bird Alert in the UK. Several of my close friends operated the system. I was one of the FIRST birders in the UK to have one - Dick gave us stoodents a freebie, so we could run around shamelessly boasting about it ... as it went off with an audible alarm, it soon had birders interested. But its success had nothing to do with the fact it was a pager. Rare Bird Alert works because it is manned every day and in recent years, almost 24/7. It takes the hassle out of communication because a simple phone call to a recorded message bank and within minutes, your record is being received by the masses. The middle man does the networking, so you don't have to. You don't even have to think about logging on, it simply arrives on your phone wherever you happen to be, at any time. It's success is due to hard work and, most importantly, it is funded - so the system is quality controlled. This is really important. Yes, social networking tools are great but they don't satisfy this need now and they won't in the future either - well not until we have a Wide Area Network over the entire country (maybe satellite iPhones in future). No medium will actually do the job unless someone 'drives' the process. I or anyone else could easily use Twitter to communicate rare birds but I have to also feed my family, so I am not about to spend hours EVERY day managing and moderating the process. Maybe we leave it to the masses but as Chris Sanderson says, you then lose quality control. This was one of the most important considerations in UK Rare Bird Alert. I can't tell you how frustrated people got about cock ups. Quality is everything. Then, there is no guarantee people would even receive the news. IPhone or not, you don't log on all day every day and you certainly don't can't use an iPhone in much of the outback - though you can get mobile reception, though GPRS is going to be costing you the equivalent of satellite bandwidth (~$10 / MB). So the way I see it, if Australians want Rare Bird Alert, then there is really no alternative to a subscription system with some form of 'alert'. Now that doesn't preclude the use of social-networking or the web. In fact, it may be very complimentary. Chris and I have begun a process to look into this. If anyone who has not already responded, would like to provide their thoughts then drop me a line and I will send you a questionnaire. Regards, Simon Mustoe. _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger onto your mobile for free http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Rare Bird Alert Operator From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:27:15 +1100 There seem to be quite a few out there who are in favour of a rare bird alert system. Unfortunately no one has put up their hand to operate the system. I presume that the organisation and operation is to be left up to the marvellous multi-skilled they. Cheers, Carl Clifford =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Rare Bird Alert Website From: John Leonard <calyptorhynchus AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 09:17:22 +1100 I think keep it simple, remember that a lot of old fogeys like myself haven't caught up with Web 2.0 apps like Twitter and Facebook. A susbscription web-page with a feed. New reports are posted at the top with all the details and contacts. What could be simpler? John Leonard 2009/11/4 Rosemary Royle : > Thanks Luke for such an excellent and thoughtful post - it certainly helped me understand how tools like Twitter could be sensibly exploited. > > Rosemary. >  ----- Original Message ----- >  From: Luke Shelley >  To: Birding Aus >  Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:52 AM >  Subject: [Birding-Aus] Rare Bird Alert Website > > >  Great to see some good conversations recently on the subject of birding >  internet sites, and new online tools for birding. Interesting to note is >  that Twitter did not seem to feature in the recent conversation regarding >  the *Rare Bird Alert Website*, yet it is probably the best suited (and by >  that I mean the technology, and not the brand name itself) to meet the >  seemingly increasing demands of 'real-time' mass communication of bird >  sightings. The following is an email to Birding-Aus that I intended to post >  last week in response to the *Birdlines on Twitter* discussion, but it is >  related to the current discussion on *Rare Bird Alert Websites*: > >  Social Networking (the umbrella that covers Twitter, Facebook, MySpace etc) >  might appear to be a relatively new thing, but in fact they are just tools >  for online networking. This website, and a number of other locally produced >  birding websites, are also prime examples of Social Networking. Birders have >  been doing it for years. > >  It is inevitable that birders will eventually make the transition to using >  these tools. Why? Because they are tailored perfectly (well, almost >  perfectly) to what we already do, but they will enhance and enrich our >  experience. One other reason that this form of communication is inevitable >  is that young people of today are brought up with this medium for >  communication, and they use it everyday. By that, I mean that they have a >  standard way that they expect to receive information. > >  It is interesting to note some of the comments regarding the introduction of >  Birdlines to Twitter, "clutter" being one of them. I agree that it seems >  like clutter with all of the new online tools and mobile apps that are >  pushed upon us. I also agree that they are somewhat prohibitive given the >  cost, but that will change (or at least come down) over time. However, from >  the perspective of the next and future generation of birders, "clutter" >  would be a word they would use to describe this very website, and a number >  of others that are commonly used by birders in Australia. That is purely >  because these websites are not presented in a way that a reader can quickly >  and easily gather the information they want. The new world wants the answer, >  and they want it right away, with minimum effort. > >  Lets look at a couple of examples of where these new tools can enhance what >  we currently do in the birding world: >  1. The use of birdlines >  Scenario 1 (Current): A birder goes out to the WTP for day. During the day >  the birder passes a number of other birders, waving as they go by, as they >  do not really know these people. The following day the birder is looking at >  Birdline, and notices that someone has posted a sighting of a Ruff. The >  birder is disappointed as they did not see the Ruff. >  Scenario 2 (Future): A birder goes out to the WTP for a day. The birder is a >  subscriber to the new Birdline Twitter feed. Whilst at the plant the birder >  receives a live Twitter update that there is a Ruff at the Borrow Pits. The >  birder quickly drives down there, and meets with the other birder who just >  posted the sighting only minutes earlier. The birder now has a new tick, and >  a new friend. > >  2. Twitching amongst specific groups >  Scenario 1 (Current): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. One >  particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he >  has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen >  friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, so he calls them >  on his mobile, one by one. Who does he call first? >  Scenario 2 (Future): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. One >  particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he >  has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen >  friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, and he wants to >  let them all know at once, but doesn't particularly want to post the site on >  the website so everyone can see. Fortunately the twitcher and his friends >  have established a closed network so that they can only see each others >  posts, and no-one else can see the posts. The twitcher posts to his network, >  and all of his fellow twitchers receive the sighting instantly, all at the >  same time. They are all on their way, and will probably all arrive at the >  same time. > >  I think the new social networking tools are great, but in their current form >  they are not ideal. As birders, we need to shape them into tools that are >  useful for what we love doing most: birding! > >  *End of original email* >  * >  * >  With regards to the latest discussion on Rare Bird Alert Websites, I would >  like to bring up a couple of extra points, along the same lines as above. > >  Firstly, there appears to be an assumption that the users of such websites >  are only after rare or unusual sightings - I believe that this is not >  entirely true. Speaking for myself, being a novice birder I use the websites >  not only to find rare birds, but also to pick up reasonably common or >  seasonal birds that I do not yet have on my list. By creating a website that >  only posts sightings of rare birds (subjectively), we are restricting the >  use of the site, and limiting the possibilities of what the site can become. >  A far better way would be to base postings on user defined choices, or >  automated rules through coding. Sooner or later birding websites are going >  to become so inundated that manual moderation of the site will become almost >  impossible. It would be very easy to code in specific rules that >  automatically moderate a website so that particular species or locations >  would or would not be shown. Along with modern day geographic information >  systems (GIS), this could easily become spatially based rules as well. Any >  sightings that 'break the rules' so to speak could then be flagged for >  manual moderation. > >  Secondly, the real power of any of these websites is in the contributors. I >  have seen some nice looking birding websites out there, but they are not >  currently successful because they do not have a wealth of contribution that >  some of the other sites have. I believe this comes down to 'usability', >  which relates to my comment of 'clutter' in my initial email above. There is >  currently also the issue of all of these different tools and websites on >  offer that are not in one central location. > >  For those of you that are keen, do some searching on "Web 2.0" on the >  internet (Wikipedia is a good start). Next time you visit your favourite >  birding website, ask yourself these questions: >  What is it I want to do? >  What do I have to do to do it? (i.e. what are the steps involved, how many >  clicks does it take to get there, how easy is it to do) >  How is the information displayed? Can you think of better ways? Or is this >  display perfect as it is? >  How long does it take to display in this way? Are maps too slow? >  What ways would you like to display or filter the information in your own >  way? > >  The more of us that write down these ideas, the more we can formulate them >  into a 'business case' and present them to the current website owners, or >  indeed to a budding new website designer. I have plenty of ideas I have >  already put on paper, and I would be more than willing to discuss them with >  anyone here. They range from ways to mass communicate (e.g. twitter etc), to >  social networks for creating and sharing bird lists, events etc (e.g. >  Facebook etc), all the way to submitting survey and Atlas records. The >  possibilities are endless. > >  I see our birding websites, including this one, as more than just a place to >  post and discuss rare bird sightings. I see them as a gateway to the great >  pastime of birding, for novices and veterans alike, and the more we come to >  realise that, the many more people will come to enjoy birding both now and >  into the future. > >  Regards, > >  Luke >  =============================== >  www.birding-aus.org >  birding-aus.blogspot.com > >  To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >  send the message: >  unsubscribe >  (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >  to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >  =============================== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >  No virus found in this incoming message. >  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >  Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.48/2479 - Release Date: 11/03/09 19:38:00 > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > -- John Leonard Canberra Australia www.jleonard.net "I rejoice that there are owls." Thoreau ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Pay for Rare Bird Alert...surely not? From: Simon Mustoe <simonmustoe AT hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:06:16 +0000 Hi, Time for me to chip in five cents! I agree wholeheartedly with all the comments regarding social networking tools. Fantastic opportunities for birding. Let's not forget though, that long before Twitter and various websites existed, we all had mobile phones and in times past could even access the 'world network' using a comprehensive system of pay phones around the country. So why then, do we still pine for a Rare Bird Alert System? The reason is that it's not just about what tool you use but how you go about it. There is one important part of the equation that has not yet been discussed in this forum. I used to know Dick Filby who runs Rare Bird Alert in the UK. Several of my close friends operated the system. I was one of the FIRST birders in the UK to have one - Dick gave us stoodents a freebie, so we could run around shamelessly boasting about it ... as it went off with an audible alarm, it soon had birders interested. But its success had nothing to do with the fact it was a pager. Rare Bird Alert works because it is manned every day and in recent years, almost 24/7. It takes the hassle out of communication because a simple phone call to a recorded message bank and within minutes, your record is being received by the masses. The middle man does the networking, so you don't have to. You don't even have to think about logging on, it simply arrives on your phone wherever you happen to be, at any time. It's success is due to hard work and, most importantly, it is funded - so the system is quality controlled. This is really important. Yes, social networking tools are great but they don't satisfy this need now and they won't in the future either - well not until we have a Wide Area Network over the entire country (maybe satellite iPhones in future). No medium will actually do the job unless someone 'drives' the process. I or anyone else could easily use Twitter to communicate rare birds but I have to also feed my family, so I am not about to spend hours EVERY day managing and moderating the process. Maybe we leave it to the masses but as Chris Sanderson says, you then lose quality control. This was one of the most important considerations in UK Rare Bird Alert. I can't tell you how frustrated people got about cock ups. Quality is everything. Then, there is no guarantee people would even receive the news. IPhone or not, you don't log on all day every day and you certainly don't can't use an iPhone in much of the outback - though you can get mobile reception, though GPRS is going to be costing you the equivalent of satellite bandwidth (~$10 / MB). So the way I see it, if Australians want Rare Bird Alert, then there is really no alternative to a subscription system with some form of 'alert'. Now that doesn't preclude the use of social-networking or the web. In fact, it may be very complimentary. Chris and I have begun a process to look into this. If anyone who has not already responded, would like to provide their thoughts then drop me a line and I will send you a questionnaire. Regards, Simon Mustoe. _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger onto your mobile for free http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Mike Collard" <badgersinbucks AT btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:38:57 -0000 Hi all, As a lurker from the UK ( although I have birded in Australia and enjoyed wonderful help from this email group ) I thought I should add some thoughts about twitching in the UK. 1) There are some who will go long distances and spend money to get a new UK bird; recent example was a Sandhill Crane on Orkney; not that easy to get to; damage to the environment is the fuel used to get folks there; it added some revenue to the island though! 2) There are many who will go 200 miles for a good bird; invariably collections are organised if it fits in with either the reserve the bird was found in or who found it; eg. the local non-birding vicar found a White-crowned Sparrow so an amazing £5k was collected; his church was blessed with some new glass including an image of the said Sparrow. 3) Twitching does not really cause a problem; I am sure many of the rares that are twitched never get to their destination anyway; now and again there is some trespass and sometimes the bird gets too much attention but that is about it in the UK; honest! The Isles of Scilly has done ok because of birders over the years; boatman make substantial money on ferrying birders around the small islands to catch up with rares. Lots of hotels and pubs are full of birders at certain times; again revenue generation. The serious and continuing danger to all our birds ( including common species ) are eggers, developers, shooters of game birds and duck, crooked and poor environmental consultants, insipid Councils and Governments over the years who let people with clout rule and sadly a number of landowners. The lack of insects in the countryside is frightening; go for a drive years ago and your car lights would get covered in insects, but not any more. Best/ Mike Collard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Brockman" To: "Tim Jones" Cc: ; "birding aus" Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > Fanatical twitchers in Australia are unlikely to be problem - so far. > However, I hear things are not so rosy in the UK where there are > 1,000s/10,000s ?? of fanatical twitchers prepared to fly from one end of > the country to the other at the drop of a new vagrant. The Scilly Isles > landowners seem to have a grouch and there have been reports of areas > closed from twitchers. > >> >> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just >> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm >> they do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of >> something which has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on >> many, many 'fanatical twitches' in my time. >> >> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most >> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want >> future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and >> wonderful wildlife. >> >> >> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of statement >> tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. >> >> >> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe >>> that there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their >>> collection. Its no different than collecting feathers a subject that as >>> been discussed recently on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be >>> a harmless pastime on the surface but you can imagine someone who as all >>> the feathers of all the parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I >>> could easily see such a person trying to find out where to find one and >>> going out and shooting it to get the feather.You only have to see what >>> some of the fanatical Twitchers get up to at times to understand the >>> need to be alert to whom you give information to. Thankfully it is only >>> a small minority that are involved in such behaviour. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Peter Shute" >>> To: ; >>> Cc: ; >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> >>> >>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but >>>> would someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>>> >>>> Peter Shute >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------- >>>> Sent using BlackBerry >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> To: Keith Brandwood >>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> Keith, >>>> >>>> I heartily agree. >>>> >>>> Carl Clifford >>>> >>>> >>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>>> >>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as >>>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to >>>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after >>>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>>> >>> To: >>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in >>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on >>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of >>>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of >>>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg >>>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>>> >>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, >>>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may >>>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between >>>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> Frank Hemmings >>>> Curator >>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>>> University of New South Wales >>>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> >>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>>> >>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> ========== >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> View photos of singles in your area Click Here >> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/==============================www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> ============================ >> > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Rare Bird Alert Website From: "Rosemary Royle" <rosemaryroyle AT tiscali.co.uk> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:41:01 -0000 Thanks Luke for such an excellent and thoughtful post - it certainly helped me understand how tools like Twitter could be sensibly exploited. Rosemary. ----- Original Message ----- From: Luke Shelley To: Birding Aus Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:52 AM Subject: [Birding-Aus] Rare Bird Alert Website Great to see some good conversations recently on the subject of birding internet sites, and new online tools for birding. Interesting to note is that Twitter did not seem to feature in the recent conversation regarding the *Rare Bird Alert Website*, yet it is probably the best suited (and by that I mean the technology, and not the brand name itself) to meet the seemingly increasing demands of 'real-time' mass communication of bird sightings. The following is an email to Birding-Aus that I intended to post last week in response to the *Birdlines on Twitter* discussion, but it is related to the current discussion on *Rare Bird Alert Websites*: Social Networking (the umbrella that covers Twitter, Facebook, MySpace etc) might appear to be a relatively new thing, but in fact they are just tools for online networking. This website, and a number of other locally produced birding websites, are also prime examples of Social Networking. Birders have been doing it for years. It is inevitable that birders will eventually make the transition to using these tools. Why? Because they are tailored perfectly (well, almost perfectly) to what we already do, but they will enhance and enrich our experience. One other reason that this form of communication is inevitable is that young people of today are brought up with this medium for communication, and they use it everyday. By that, I mean that they have a standard way that they expect to receive information. It is interesting to note some of the comments regarding the introduction of Birdlines to Twitter, "clutter" being one of them. I agree that it seems like clutter with all of the new online tools and mobile apps that are pushed upon us. I also agree that they are somewhat prohibitive given the cost, but that will change (or at least come down) over time. However, from the perspective of the next and future generation of birders, "clutter" would be a word they would use to describe this very website, and a number of others that are commonly used by birders in Australia. That is purely because these websites are not presented in a way that a reader can quickly and easily gather the information they want. The new world wants the answer, and they want it right away, with minimum effort. Lets look at a couple of examples of where these new tools can enhance what we currently do in the birding world: 1. The use of birdlines Scenario 1 (Current): A birder goes out to the WTP for day. During the day the birder passes a number of other birders, waving as they go by, as they do not really know these people. The following day the birder is looking at Birdline, and notices that someone has posted a sighting of a Ruff. The birder is disappointed as they did not see the Ruff. Scenario 2 (Future): A birder goes out to the WTP for a day. The birder is a subscriber to the new Birdline Twitter feed. Whilst at the plant the birder receives a live Twitter update that there is a Ruff at the Borrow Pits. The birder quickly drives down there, and meets with the other birder who just posted the sighting only minutes earlier. The birder now has a new tick, and a new friend. 2. Twitching amongst specific groups Scenario 1 (Current): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. One particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, so he calls them on his mobile, one by one. Who does he call first? Scenario 2 (Future): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. One particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, and he wants to let them all know at once, but doesn't particularly want to post the site on the website so everyone can see. Fortunately the twitcher and his friends have established a closed network so that they can only see each others posts, and no-one else can see the posts. The twitcher posts to his network, and all of his fellow twitchers receive the sighting instantly, all at the same time. They are all on their way, and will probably all arrive at the same time. I think the new social networking tools are great, but in their current form they are not ideal. As birders, we need to shape them into tools that are useful for what we love doing most: birding! *End of original email* * * With regards to the latest discussion on Rare Bird Alert Websites, I would like to bring up a couple of extra points, along the same lines as above. Firstly, there appears to be an assumption that the users of such websites are only after rare or unusual sightings - I believe that this is not entirely true. Speaking for myself, being a novice birder I use the websites not only to find rare birds, but also to pick up reasonably common or seasonal birds that I do not yet have on my list. By creating a website that only posts sightings of rare birds (subjectively), we are restricting the use of the site, and limiting the possibilities of what the site can become. A far better way would be to base postings on user defined choices, or automated rules through coding. Sooner or later birding websites are going to become so inundated that manual moderation of the site will become almost impossible. It would be very easy to code in specific rules that automatically moderate a website so that particular species or locations would or would not be shown. Along with modern day geographic information systems (GIS), this could easily become spatially based rules as well. Any sightings that 'break the rules' so to speak could then be flagged for manual moderation. Secondly, the real power of any of these websites is in the contributors. I have seen some nice looking birding websites out there, but they are not currently successful because they do not have a wealth of contribution that some of the other sites have. I believe this comes down to 'usability', which relates to my comment of 'clutter' in my initial email above. There is currently also the issue of all of these different tools and websites on offer that are not in one central location. For those of you that are keen, do some searching on "Web 2.0" on the internet (Wikipedia is a good start). Next time you visit your favourite birding website, ask yourself these questions: What is it I want to do? What do I have to do to do it? (i.e. what are the steps involved, how many clicks does it take to get there, how easy is it to do) How is the information displayed? Can you think of better ways? Or is this display perfect as it is? How long does it take to display in this way? Are maps too slow? What ways would you like to display or filter the information in your own way? The more of us that write down these ideas, the more we can formulate them into a 'business case' and present them to the current website owners, or indeed to a budding new website designer. I have plenty of ideas I have already put on paper, and I would be more than willing to discuss them with anyone here. They range from ways to mass communicate (e.g. twitter etc), to social networks for creating and sharing bird lists, events etc (e.g. Facebook etc), all the way to submitting survey and Atlas records. The possibilities are endless. I see our birding websites, including this one, as more than just a place to post and discuss rare bird sightings. I see them as a gateway to the great pastime of birding, for novices and veterans alike, and the more we come to realise that, the many more people will come to enjoy birding both now and into the future. Regards, Luke =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.48/2479 - Release Date: 11/03/09 19:38:00 ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: Rare Bird Alert Website From: Chris Sanderson <chris.sanderson AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 21:55:55 +1000 Hi Luke, I agree twitter is indeed a useful tool for near-instant reporting of birding information. I think there are two reasons why it is not the equivalent of a rare bird pager/sms system such as they have in the UK. The first is network coverage. To use twitter you must be on a 3G network, or use the slow and more expensive GPRS system. This is basically restrictive in that you can't use it to report that Grey Falcon you saw at Cunnamulla until you get back near Brisbane. The other reason is verification. Eremea has a lag in reporting because there is a human in between you and the reporters making sure that incorrect reports are caught before they become public. Twitter would be completely unverified, so you would have to take each report with a grain of salt unless you knew the person reporting to be reliable. That said, I see value in twitter as a technology for this style of thing, particularly as a way of accessing Eremea. Regards, Chris ps. I'm also keen to check out Google Wave, but haven't been able to get an invite as yet. On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Russell Woodford wrote: > HI Luke > > You raise some very interesting points here. I've taught web design in the > past, but threw it out in favour of a subject I called "Web 2.0" where I > tried to get students to use and learn about a wide range of tools. The most > time-consuming and difficult thing - and certainly the most exciting - was > that I could never repeat the same course from one semester to the next. > There were new technologies and tools every time the course came up again! > > Now I'm interested in Google Wave, and hope to get some birders to try it > out. I'm still trying to get my head around how it works, let alone how it > can work for a birding community. There will be some who don't want to leave > the plain old email system we have now, but there will be many keen to > explore the possibilities of Wave. > > We do have a birding-aus Twitter Feed and anyone can subscribe to that - > sorry, can "Follow" that! There is also a feed from the Eremaea rare bird > sightings. Thanks for Paul Dodd for setting up these feeds. If you missed > Paul's message about how these work, here are the links (you can find Paul's > full message on the Archives). > > Birding-Aus [birdlingaus] http://twitter.com/birdingaus > Birdline Australia [birdlineaus] http://twitter.com/birdlineaus > Birdline Central & Southern Queensland [birdlinecsq] > http://twitter.com/birdlinecsq > Birdline North Queensland [birdlinenq] http://twitter.com/birdlinenq > Birdline NSW [birdlinensw] http://twitter.com/birdlinensw > Birdline NT [birdlinent] http://twitter.com/birdlinent > Birdline Tasmania [birdlinetas] http://twitter.com/birdlinetas > Birdline Victoria [birdlinevic] http://twitter.com/birdlinevic > Birdline Indonesia [birdlineindon] http://twitter.com/birdlineindon > > Happy twittering! > > Russell > > > Russell Woodford > Birding-Aus List Owner > russell AT birding-aus.org > Geelong Victoria Australia > http://www.birding-aus.org > > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,send the message: > unsubscribe(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Red-necked Crake etc. From: Kingfisher Park Birdwatchers Lodge <sootyowl AT bigpond.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:42:30 +1000 Hi Folks, Interesting sightings from Phil. No sign of breeding here at Kingfisher Park B.L. of Red-necked Crakes, we usually see young around December/Jan. as Phil indicated. Can't compete on Cassowary! The Noisy Pittas re-appeared in the grounds after an absence of 2½ months, probably due to the extremely dry weather but only calling very occasionally, other years at this time they are in full breeding mode and calling day and night. Our 3-4 Super Fruit-Doves have been calling virtually non-stop (unlike Phil's silent ones) for the last 2-3 weeks but have only been seen twice, many have tried to find them but they sit high in the canopy usually above a dense clump of foliage making viewing from below very difficult. (Lesser) Sooty Owls behaving the same with some nights non stop calling and then silence for a week before they carry on again. Rainforest calling Cicadabirds are very sporadic with very little calling and probably only a pair about when normally at this time of year there are plenty around. Buff-breasted Paradise Kingfisher has not reached us yet but they were seen a few Klms down the road near the Mowbray National Park a few days ago and also reported around Daintree River last Monday 1st so they must arrive in the next few days - we hope. Black-faced Monarch was late arriving this year with only a few birds calling at the moment, numbers definitely down. Cheers, Keith & Lindsay. Keith & Lindsay Fisher Kingfisher Park Birdwatchers Lodge RN 6 Mt. Kooyong Road Julatten QLD 4871 Ph : (07) 4094 1263 Fax : (07) 4094 1466 Web Site: www.birdwatchers.com.au Blog: http://kingfisherparkbirdwatchers.blogspot.com/ Phil & Sue Gregory wrote: > Good news for us here at Cassowary House in Kuranda, Far North > Queensland ( GPS available.....) is that the Red-necked Crakes have at > least one and probably several babies. This is quite early and also > quite surprising as it's been so dry here for some months, the little > bit of rain we got in the week is nowhere near enough yet; the crakes > seem to like the wet season proper and Dec-Jan is a peak for breeding > here, usually with 3 babies and sometimes a double brood. > > The male and female Cassowaries are daily visitors, we still wonder if > another breeding attempt might be on the cards, but the male is very > wary of the female so probably not. > > Noisy Pitta began calling Oct 11, but is still sporadic, we need more > rain to spark them up. > > White-eared and Pied Monarchs are very vocal, ditto Black-faced, but > this year (quite unlike last when they were very noisy) Superb Fruit > Dove is virtually silent . > > Cicadabird is singing well, the rain forest whistling form of course, > and this is a call I've never heard in PNG, where the birds vocalize > with a raspy call more like souther Cicadabirds- this whole complex > badly needs unravelling to see how many species are hidden therein. > > Lesser Sooty Owl (one species or 3 in the Sooty Owl group? Depends how > you want to interpret the data....) has been calling a bit but has > really ben very quiet for months, just odd vocals from time to time. > > Good birding > Phil Gregory > www.cassowary-house.com.au > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,send the message: > unsubscribe(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Rare Bird Alert Website From: Russell Woodford <rdwoodford AT aanet.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:20:54 +1100 HI Luke You raise some very interesting points here. I've taught web design in the past, but threw it out in favour of a subject I called "Web 2.0" where I tried to get students to use and learn about a wide range of tools. The most time-consuming and difficult thing - and certainly the most exciting - was that I could never repeat the same course from one semester to the next. There were new technologies and tools every time the course came up again! Now I'm interested in Google Wave, and hope to get some birders to try it out. I'm still trying to get my head around how it works, let alone how it can work for a birding community. There will be some who don't want to leave the plain old email system we have now, but there will be many keen to explore the possibilities of Wave. We do have a birding-aus Twitter Feed and anyone can subscribe to that - sorry, can "Follow" that! There is also a feed from the Eremaea rare bird sightings. Thanks for Paul Dodd for setting up these feeds. If you missed Paul's message about how these work, here are the links (you can find Paul's full message on the Archives). Birding-Aus [birdlingaus] http://twitter.com/birdingaus Birdline Australia [birdlineaus] http://twitter.com/birdlineaus Birdline Central & Southern Queensland [birdlinecsq] http://twitter.com/birdlinecsq Birdline North Queensland [birdlinenq] http://twitter.com/birdlinenq Birdline NSW [birdlinensw] http://twitter.com/birdlinensw Birdline NT [birdlinent] http://twitter.com/birdlinent Birdline Tasmania [birdlinetas] http://twitter.com/birdlinetas Birdline Victoria [birdlinevic] http://twitter.com/birdlinevic Birdline Indonesia [birdlineindon] http://twitter.com/birdlineindon Happy twittering! Russell Russell Woodford Birding-Aus List Owner russell AT birding-aus.org Geelong Victoria Australia http://www.birding-aus.org =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Satin-Leaden Flycatchers again From: "Allan Richardson" <albirdo AT bigpond.net.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:17:05 +1100 Hi Rod In recent years I've been pretty keen to test the calls of SF compared with LF. And over the past few seasons have tracked down many a variation on the LF call suspecting that a SF would show itself, only to find LF. A week ago I was working on the Newnes Plateau in the western Blue Mountains and encountered LF regularly, most deviating from the calls that I am used to hearing on the Central Coast where I live. The last flycatcher call I encountered during the week sounded very much like a LF, but turned out to be a SF. I have heard SF in the past, which sounded different to LF calls, but I suspect, from my own experiences, that the variation of call within each species may make it hard to draw some general rules of thumb here. Regards Allan Richardson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rod Gardner" To: Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:14 AM Subject: [Birding-Aus] Satin-Leaden Flycatchers again > Following up on the Leaden/Satin Flycatcher thread, I have another > question about these birds. Leaden Flycatchers are common on my local > patch in the west of Brisbane, and I’m familiar with their calls. Recently > I heard a call that was Leaden Flycatcher-like, but not one I’d heard > before. I didn’t get to see the bird, as it was in a densely vegetated > gully, but recorded the call on a digital voice recorder. When I got home > and checked it with the BOCA recordings, it was pretty much identical to > the first calls of the Satin Flycatcher on those tapes. However, according > to HANZAB, the calls of LFs and SFs are very similar, with lots of > individual variation, and it says they are separable only with practice. > Can anyone say whether that first Satin call on the BOCA tapes is > diagnostic? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Brush Turkey invasion From: "Tom and Mandy Wilson" <tomandmandy AT aapt.net.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:01:52 +1100 Definitely a pair breeding near Irrawong Reserve (Warriewood Wetlands) as well - I saw a chick there in September. Tom Wilson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark and Mandy Young" To: "'Peter Madvig'" ; "'Jill Dark'" ; Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:47 PM Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Brush Turkey invasion > There is 2 breeding pair that I've heard about on the Northern Beaches > this > year. There is a pair at Oxford Falls that I first noticed about 2 years > ago. I noticed a small chick in the same area about 3 or 4 months ago. > Also I heard about a year ago about 2 pair breeding at Elanora Heights > that > had chicks last year. > I saw 3 adults at Deep Creek in September, near where the Bronzewings are > always seen. > I also noticed a dead one on the side of the road around Belrose(?) about > a > month ago. And others have reported seeing them there as well. > > Regards, > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Peter Madvig > Sent: Monday, 2 November 2009 7:53 PM > To: Jill Dark; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Brush Turkey invasion > > Got a couple in Beecroft (N.W. Sydney) - they've ignored my "garden"! We > back on to a little park, near Devlin's creek, which ends up in Lane Cove > River. A handy corridor for birds, such as the E. Whipbird turning up from > time to time. > > Cheers > Peter Madvig > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jill Dark" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:35 PM > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Brush Turkey invasion > > > The Brush Turkeys are not just moving into Sydney. They have been reported > from around Glenbrook and Blaxland in the Blue Mountains and last Thursday > one was seen in a garden in Lawson. Where next? > > Jill Dark > ==========www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > ========== > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Rare Bird Alert Website From: Luke Shelley <ldshelle AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 21:52:07 +1100 Great to see some good conversations recently on the subject of birding internet sites, and new online tools for birding. Interesting to note is that Twitter did not seem to feature in the recent conversation regarding the *Rare Bird Alert Website*, yet it is probably the best suited (and by that I mean the technology, and not the brand name itself) to meet the seemingly increasing demands of 'real-time' mass communication of bird sightings. The following is an email to Birding-Aus that I intended to post last week in response to the *Birdlines on Twitter* discussion, but it is related to the current discussion on *Rare Bird Alert Websites*: Social Networking (the umbrella that covers Twitter, Facebook, MySpace etc) might appear to be a relatively new thing, but in fact they are just tools for online networking. This website, and a number of other locally produced birding websites, are also prime examples of Social Networking. Birders have been doing it for years. It is inevitable that birders will eventually make the transition to using these tools. Why? Because they are tailored perfectly (well, almost perfectly) to what we already do, but they will enhance and enrich our experience. One other reason that this form of communication is inevitable is that young people of today are brought up with this medium for communication, and they use it everyday. By that, I mean that they have a standard way that they expect to receive information. It is interesting to note some of the comments regarding the introduction of Birdlines to Twitter, "clutter" being one of them. I agree that it seems like clutter with all of the new online tools and mobile apps that are pushed upon us. I also agree that they are somewhat prohibitive given the cost, but that will change (or at least come down) over time. However, from the perspective of the next and future generation of birders, "clutter" would be a word they would use to describe this very website, and a number of others that are commonly used by birders in Australia. That is purely because these websites are not presented in a way that a reader can quickly and easily gather the information they want. The new world wants the answer, and they want it right away, with minimum effort. Lets look at a couple of examples of where these new tools can enhance what we currently do in the birding world: 1. The use of birdlines Scenario 1 (Current): A birder goes out to the WTP for day. During the day the birder passes a number of other birders, waving as they go by, as they do not really know these people. The following day the birder is looking at Birdline, and notices that someone has posted a sighting of a Ruff. The birder is disappointed as they did not see the Ruff. Scenario 2 (Future): A birder goes out to the WTP for a day. The birder is a subscriber to the new Birdline Twitter feed. Whilst at the plant the birder receives a live Twitter update that there is a Ruff at the Borrow Pits. The birder quickly drives down there, and meets with the other birder who just posted the sighting only minutes earlier. The birder now has a new tick, and a new friend. 2. Twitching amongst specific groups Scenario 1 (Current): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. One particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, so he calls them on his mobile, one by one. Who does he call first? Scenario 2 (Future): A Blue-and-White Flycatcher turns up in Broome. One particular high profile twitcher is telephoned by someone in Broome, and he has packed his bags and is on his way. This twitcher has about a dozen friends who would also be interested in seeing this bird, and he wants to let them all know at once, but doesn't particularly want to post the site on the website so everyone can see. Fortunately the twitcher and his friends have established a closed network so that they can only see each others posts, and no-one else can see the posts. The twitcher posts to his network, and all of his fellow twitchers receive the sighting instantly, all at the same time. They are all on their way, and will probably all arrive at the same time. I think the new social networking tools are great, but in their current form they are not ideal. As birders, we need to shape them into tools that are useful for what we love doing most: birding! *End of original email* * * With regards to the latest discussion on Rare Bird Alert Websites, I would like to bring up a couple of extra points, along the same lines as above. Firstly, there appears to be an assumption that the users of such websites are only after rare or unusual sightings - I believe that this is not entirely true. Speaking for myself, being a novice birder I use the websites not only to find rare birds, but also to pick up reasonably common or seasonal birds that I do not yet have on my list. By creating a website that only posts sightings of rare birds (subjectively), we are restricting the use of the site, and limiting the possibilities of what the site can become. A far better way would be to base postings on user defined choices, or automated rules through coding. Sooner or later birding websites are going to become so inundated that manual moderation of the site will become almost impossible. It would be very easy to code in specific rules that automatically moderate a website so that particular species or locations would or would not be shown. Along with modern day geographic information systems (GIS), this could easily become spatially based rules as well. Any sightings that 'break the rules' so to speak could then be flagged for manual moderation. Secondly, the real power of any of these websites is in the contributors. I have seen some nice looking birding websites out there, but they are not currently successful because they do not have a wealth of contribution that some of the other sites have. I believe this comes down to 'usability', which relates to my comment of 'clutter' in my initial email above. There is currently also the issue of all of these different tools and websites on offer that are not in one central location. For those of you that are keen, do some searching on "Web 2.0" on the internet (Wikipedia is a good start). Next time you visit your favourite birding website, ask yourself these questions: What is it I want to do? What do I have to do to do it? (i.e. what are the steps involved, how many clicks does it take to get there, how easy is it to do) How is the information displayed? Can you think of better ways? Or is this display perfect as it is? How long does it take to display in this way? Are maps too slow? What ways would you like to display or filter the information in your own way? The more of us that write down these ideas, the more we can formulate them into a 'business case' and present them to the current website owners, or indeed to a budding new website designer. I have plenty of ideas I have already put on paper, and I would be more than willing to discuss them with anyone here. They range from ways to mass communicate (e.g. twitter etc), to social networks for creating and sharing bird lists, events etc (e.g. Facebook etc), all the way to submitting survey and Atlas records. The possibilities are endless. I see our birding websites, including this one, as more than just a place to post and discuss rare bird sightings. I see them as a gateway to the great pastime of birding, for novices and veterans alike, and the more we come to realise that, the many more people will come to enjoy birding both now and into the future. Regards, Luke =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Snowy and Kentish Plovers Split From: L&L Knight <l.knight AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:55:10 +1000 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091026123946.htm ScienceDaily (Nov. 2, 2009) — The Kentish-Snowy Plover, a small shorebird found in the US and Europe, is suffering from an identity crisis after scientists at the Universities of Bath and Sheffield found genetic evidence that the populations are, in fact, separate species.==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: A different sort of fanatical birding From: L&L Knight <l.knight AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:08:10 +1000 http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-birders3-2009nov03,0,311565.story Tom and Jo Heindel's first date was a birding trip in the Santa Monica Mountains. After years of cataloging avian life forms, they're nearing completion of a definitive Inyo County guide. =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Mangrove Removal a threat to Rufous Owls in Cairns From: Peter Shute <pshute AT nuw.org.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:33:38 +1100 Alan, why do they really want to remove the mangroves? Peter Shute -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au To: birding-aus Sent: Wed Nov 04 18:00:52 2009 Subject: [Birding-Aus] Mangrove Removal a threat to Rufous Owls in Cairns Greetings, The following is forwarded from Brian Venables in Cairns. If any one would like a copy of his letter or other info please contact me off line. Basically the Cairns Regional Council is using an old hydrology report and flooding earlier this year to justify the clearing of mangroves where a pair of Rufous Owls are nesting. "Friends, I wouldn't ordinarily be writing to all of you like this but things are desperate. "We have a situation in Cairns right now where the City Council is tearing down the Mangroves in Saltwater Creek in the Flecker Botanic Gardens. They are doing this notwithstanding the fact the area is a fish Sanctuary and there is a pair of Rufous Owls with chicks in a nest hollow so close to the work as to be in danger. "Qld Fisheries have given the OK to clear mangroves and a permit to damage can be obtained from EPA with respect to the Rufous Owls should that be necessary. It is all OK in Qld. "Please read the attached Letter to the Mayor and decide for yourself if you think this right. "Please write to the Mayor yourself and give her your thoughts and if you feel as strongly as I do contact to your friends and ask them to write as well. "Habitat destruction has to stop. Brian" Regards, Alan Gillanders Alan's Wildlife Tours 2 Mather Road Yungaburra 4884 www.alanswildlifetours.com.au Phone 07 4095 3784 Int. + 61 7 4095 3784 Mobile 0408 953 786 Alan's blog http://alanswildlife.blogspot.com/ =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Red-necked Crake etc. From: Phil & Sue Gregory <sicklebill AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:27:49 +1000 Good news for us here at Cassowary House in Kuranda, Far North Queensland ( GPS available.....) is that the Red-necked Crakes have at least one and probably several babies. This is quite early and also quite surprising as it's been so dry here for some months, the little bit of rain we got in the week is nowhere near enough yet; the crakes seem to like the wet season proper and Dec-Jan is a peak for breeding here, usually with 3 babies and sometimes a double brood. The male and female Cassowaries are daily visitors, we still wonder if another breeding attempt might be on the cards, but the male is very wary of the female so probably not. Noisy Pitta began calling Oct 11, but is still sporadic, we need more rain to spark them up. White-eared and Pied Monarchs are very vocal, ditto Black-faced, but this year (quite unlike last when they were very noisy) Superb Fruit Dove is virtually silent . Cicadabird is singing well, the rain forest whistling form of course, and this is a call I've never heard in PNG, where the birds vocalize with a raspy call more like souther Cicadabirds- this whole complex badly needs unravelling to see how many species are hidden therein. Lesser Sooty Owl (one species or 3 in the Sooty Owl group? Depends how you want to interpret the data....) has been calling a bit but has really ben very quiet for months, just odd vocals from time to time. Good birding Phil Gregory www.cassowary-house.com.au =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: L&L Knight <l.knight AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:32:56 +1000 Thanks for the reference Chris. To clarify the situation, as those of you who did the survey may recall, I asked people to rank seven potential uses of Birding Aus in order of importance. These were reports of bird sightings, planning trips, equipment issues, informal contact with other birders, bird identification, bird welfare discussions and discussions of environmental issues. I factor analysed people's responses with SPSS. The Items with the strongest loadings on the first factor were: Environment .713 Bird Welfare .670 Sightings -.709 Trip Planning -.780 In other words, people who rated discussing environmental and bird welfare issues highly were likely to give a low ranking to being informed about bird sightings and planning trips. Hard core twitchers were primarily concerned with being informed about bird sightings. Moderate twitchers were also strongly interested in bird sightings. They also gave planning trips a higher priority than the other groups. So, there is some substance to Chris' comment regarding fanatical twitchers. However, I didn't directly test people's concern about the environment - just the priority given to alternative uses of Birding- Aus. There may be quite a few hard core twitchers who are passionate about protecting the environment. It must be time to do another survey :) Regards, Laurie On 03/11/2009, at 10:10 PM, Chris Sanderson wrote: > Hi Tim, > > I believe in the UK a small number of rare birds have died from > constant > harassment leading to an inability to feed to recover from a long > trip. > This is possibly what Peter is referring to? Also I hear from various > sources of cases where twitchers (usually identity unknown) have been > observed by landholders to tresspass to look for birds. This still > appears > to be a sadly common occurrence, though as you say, its not fair to > tar all > twitchers with that brush as I know many who wouldn't enter a property > without permission. However those that do give all birders, not just > twitchers, a bad name with the general public. > > I will say this though, a recent study by our own Dr Laurie Knight > showed > that the more fanatical a twitcher is, the less they care about > conservation. That's hard data from a fairly broad survey there (I > hope > I've paraphrased your work correctly there Laurie, feel free to jump > in if > I'm misquoting). > > As for earlier questions about collectors, I'd love to hear from > someone in > the customs department, but I know for a fact they are still finding > living > animals being smuggled, and I have little doubt that the same would > go for > dead animals - there are a lot of people for whom collecting skins/ > specimens > is akin to stamp collecting (or pokemon for the younger people out > there > reading this...gotta catch em all). Look no further than our own > official > bodies - out there looking to collect one or several of the newly > found > Spotted Quail-Thrush in Far North QLD before they even know if its a > new > species or even how many there are in the population... > > Back to the point at hand. I thought the objection was over GPS > co-ordinates being given in an open online forum. A general > location in the > email with an offer of directions offline would be fine I would > think, as > suggested by an earlier poster. At least that means someone wanting > to > break the law has to leave evidence in the form of an email if they > want the > details. > > Regards, > Chris > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Tim Jones > wrote: > >> >> Peter, >> >> >> >> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just >> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible >> harm they >> do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of >> something which >> has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many >> 'fanatical twitches' in my time. >> >> >> >> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but >> most >> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also >> want >> future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and >> wonderful wildlife. >> >> >> >> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of >> statement >> tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. >> >> >> >> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >>> >>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do >>> believe >> that >>> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their >>> collection. Its >> no >>> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed >> recently >>> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless >>> pastime on >> the >>> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all >>> the >>> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see >>> such a >> person >>> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it >>> to get >>> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical >>> Twitchers get >> up >>> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give >> information >>> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such >>> behaviour. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Peter Shute" >>> To: ; >>> Cc: ; >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> >>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) >>>> but >> would >>>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>>> >>>> Peter Shute >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------- >>>> Sent using BlackBerry >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> To: Keith Brandwood >>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> Keith, >>>> >>>> I heartily agree. >>>> >>>> Carl Clifford >>>> >>>> >>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>>> >>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species >>>> such as >>>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is >>>> to >>>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after >>>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>>> >>>> >>>> To: >>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in >>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on >>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N >>>> of >>>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the >>>> end of >>>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg >>>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>>> >>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest >>>> Rd, >>>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some >>>> may >>>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species >>>> between >>>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> Frank Hemmings >>>> Curator >>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>>> University of New South Wales >>>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> >>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>>> >>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> ========== >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> View photos of singles in your area Click Here >> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: John Tongue <jspk AT iprimus.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:18:32 +1100 So women don't twitch or stamp collect??? John Tongue Ulverstone, Tas. On 04/11/2009, at 5:26 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: > I'd be interested in seeing Laurie's research. I've some US papers > that > mention this as well. > > I've twice, in 26 years, been guiding birders who have either entered > private property or gone into sensitive habitat. The last one, a > woman just > a few months ago, entered a preschool grounds after a bird. A few > have been > disgruntled when I refused to play tapes to call up birds in > particular > areas. > > The biggest issue in the Top End that I'm aware of is birders > entering the > sewage ponds without a permit, resulting in management becoming very > upset > to the point of threatening to arrest them. Consequently, access to > the > ponds has been further tightened. > > However, in my experience up here, combat or gonzo birders (as they're > called in the US) tend to put themselves at risk more than the > birds, for > instance insisting on going out when it's very hot and humid. Two, > whom I > refused to accompany one stinking hot afternoon, later collapsed > with heat > exhaustion. > > The desire to systematise eg by stamp collecting or twitching, seems > to be a > feature of the male brain according to research I've read. > Denise > > Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow > PO Box 3460 NT 0832, AUSTRALIA > Ph. 61 08 89 328306 > Mobile: 04 386 50 835 > > Birdwatching and Indigenous tourism consultant > PhD Candidate > > http://www.denisegoodfellow.com.au > http://www.earthfoot.org > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming > http://www.ausbird.com > http://birderstravel.com > http://www.theloveofood.com (Rowan Goodfellow Thompson) > > > > on 3/11/09 9:40 PM, Chris Sanderson at chris.sanderson AT gmail.com > wrote: > >> Hi Tim, >> >> I believe in the UK a small number of rare birds have died from >> constant >> harassment leading to an inability to feed to recover from a long >> trip. >> This is possibly what Peter is referring to? Also I hear from >> various >> sources of cases where twitchers (usually identity unknown) have been >> observed by landholders to tresspass to look for birds. This still >> appears >> to be a sadly common occurrence, though as you say, its not fair to >> tar all >> twitchers with that brush as I know many who wouldn't enter a >> property >> without permission. However those that do give all birders, not just >> twitchers, a bad name with the general public. >> >> I will say this though, a recent study by our own Dr Laurie Knight >> showed >> that the more fanatical a twitcher is, the less they care about >> conservation. That's hard data from a fairly broad survey there (I >> hope >> I've paraphrased your work correctly there Laurie, feel free to >> jump in if >> I'm misquoting). >> >> As for earlier questions about collectors, I'd love to hear from >> someone in >> the customs department, but I know for a fact they are still >> finding living >> animals being smuggled, and I have little doubt that the same would >> go for >> dead animals - there are a lot of people for whom collecting skins/ >> specimens >> is akin to stamp collecting (or pokemon for the younger people out >> there >> reading this...gotta catch em all). Look no further than our own >> official >> bodies - out there looking to collect one or several of the newly >> found >> Spotted Quail-Thrush in Far North QLD before they even know if its >> a new >> species or even how many there are in the population... >> >> Back to the point at hand. I thought the objection was over GPS >> co-ordinates being given in an open online forum. A general >> location in the >> email with an offer of directions offline would be fine I would >> think, as >> suggested by an earlier poster. At least that means someone >> wanting to >> break the law has to leave evidence in the form of an email if they >> want the >> details. >> >> Regards, >> Chris >> >> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Tim Jones >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Peter, >>> >>> >>> >>> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just >>> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible >>> harm they >>> do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of >>> something which >>> has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many >>> 'fanatical twitches' in my time. >>> >>> >>> >>> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but >>> most >>> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also >>> want >>> future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and >>> wonderful wildlife. >>> >>> >>> >>> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of >>> statement >>> tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. >>> >>> >>> >>> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >>>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >>>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >>>> >>>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do >>>> believe >>> that >>>> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their >>>> collection. Its >>> no >>>> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed >>> recently >>>> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless >>>> pastime on >>> the >>>> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of >>>> all the >>>> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see >>>> such a >>> person >>>> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting >>>> it to get >>>> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical >>>> Twitchers get >>> up >>>> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give >>> information >>>> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in >>>> such >>>> behaviour. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Peter Shute" >>>> To: ; >>>> Cc: ; >>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> >>>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) >>>>> but >>> would >>>>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>>>> >>>>> Peter Shute >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------- >>>>> Sent using BlackBerry >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>>>> >>>>> To: Keith Brandwood >>>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in >>>>> Dubbo >>>>> >>>>> Keith, >>>>> >>>>> I heartily agree. >>>>> >>>>> Carl Clifford >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species >>>>> such as >>>>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required >>>>> is to >>>>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then >>>>> after >>>>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and >>>>> kicking. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To: >>>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe >>>>> in >>>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen >>>>> on >>>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, >>>>> N of >>>>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>>>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>>>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the >>>>> end of >>>>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth >>>>> 32deg >>>>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>>>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>>>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>>>> >>>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie >>>>> Forest Rd, >>>>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure >>>>> some may >>>>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species >>>>> between >>>>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Frank >>>>> >>>>> Frank Hemmings >>>>> Curator >>>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>>>> University of New South Wales >>>>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>> >>>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>>>> >>>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>>> send the message: >>>>> unsubscribe >>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>> ========== >>>>> =============================== >>>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>> =============================== >>>>> >>>>> =============================== >>>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>>> send the message: >>>>> unsubscribe >>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>> =============================== >>>>> >>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> View photos of singles in your area Click Here >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Mangrove Removal a threat to Rufous Owls in Cairns From: "Alan Gillanders" <alan AT alanswildlifetours.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:00:52 +1000 Greetings, The following is forwarded from Brian Venables in Cairns. If any one would like a copy of his letter or other info please contact me off line. Basically the Cairns Regional Council is using an old hydrology report and flooding earlier this year to justify the clearing of mangroves where a pair of Rufous Owls are nesting. "Friends, I wouldn't ordinarily be writing to all of you like this but things are desperate. "We have a situation in Cairns right now where the City Council is tearing down the Mangroves in Saltwater Creek in the Flecker Botanic Gardens. They are doing this notwithstanding the fact the area is a fish Sanctuary and there is a pair of Rufous Owls with chicks in a nest hollow so close to the work as to be in danger. "Qld Fisheries have given the OK to clear mangroves and a permit to damage can be obtained from EPA with respect to the Rufous Owls should that be necessary. It is all OK in Qld. "Please read the attached Letter to the Mayor and decide for yourself if you think this right. "Please write to the Mayor yourself and give her your thoughts and if you feel as strongly as I do contact to your friends and ask them to write as well. "Habitat destruction has to stop. Brian" Regards, Alan Gillanders Alan's Wildlife Tours 2 Mather Road Yungaburra 4884 www.alanswildlifetours.com.au Phone 07 4095 3784 Int. + 61 7 4095 3784 Mobile 0408 953 786 Alan's blog http://alanswildlife.blogspot.com/ =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: wnp From: "Michael Hunter" <drmhunter AT westnet.com.au> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:39:39 +1100 Hi Frank, Thanks for your post on the Western Night Parrot. WA (CALM) had a good record for fencing off a couple of peninsulas from ferals in order to protect native spp. up north. I brought up Cape Arid NP on mapit.com.au, and the bits projecting into the sea looks ideal for fencing off. Are the WNPs on those bits? Cheers Michael ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Graham Turner" <origma AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:39:11 +1100 My research shows they are more likely to be shopping. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise Goodfellow" To: "John Tongue" Cc: ; "Birding Aus" Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > Yes, they do, but are less likely to according to the research. > Denise > > > on 4/11/09 7:48 AM, John Tongue at jspk AT iprimus.com.au wrote: > >> So women don't twitch or stamp collect??? >> >> John Tongue >> Ulverstone, Tas. >> >> >> On 04/11/2009, at 5:26 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: >> >>> I'd be interested in seeing Laurie's research. I've some US papers >>> that >>> mention this as well. >>> >>> I've twice, in 26 years, been guiding birders who have either entered >>> private property or gone into sensitive habitat. The last one, a >>> woman just >>> a few months ago, entered a preschool grounds after a bird. A few >>> have been >>> disgruntled when I refused to play tapes to call up birds in >>> particular >>> areas. >>> >>> The biggest issue in the Top End that I'm aware of is birders >>> entering the >>> sewage ponds without a permit, resulting in management becoming very >>> upset >>> to the point of threatening to arrest them. Consequently, access to >>> the >>> ponds has been further tightened. >>> >>> However, in my experience up here, combat or gonzo birders (as they're >>> called in the US) tend to put themselves at risk more than the >>> birds, for >>> instance insisting on going out when it's very hot and humid. Two, >>> whom I >>> refused to accompany one stinking hot afternoon, later collapsed >>> with heat >>> exhaustion. >>> >>> The desire to systematise eg by stamp collecting or twitching, seems >>> to be a >>> feature of the male brain according to research I've read. >>> Denise >>> >>> Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow >>> PO Box 3460 NT 0832, AUSTRALIA >>> Ph. 61 08 89 328306 >>> Mobile: 04 386 50 835 >>> >>> Birdwatching and Indigenous tourism consultant >>> PhD Candidate >>> >>> http://www.denisegoodfellow.com.au >>> http://www.earthfoot.org >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming >>> http://www.ausbird.com >>> http://birderstravel.com >>> http://www.theloveofood.com (Rowan Goodfellow Thompson) >>> >>> >>> >>> on 3/11/09 9:40 PM, Chris Sanderson at chris.sanderson AT gmail.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Tim, >>>> >>>> I believe in the UK a small number of rare birds have died from >>>> constant >>>> harassment leading to an inability to feed to recover from a long >>>> trip. >>>> This is possibly what Peter is referring to? Also I hear from >>>> various >>>> sources of cases where twitchers (usually identity unknown) have been >>>> observed by landholders to tresspass to look for birds. This still >>>> appears >>>> to be a sadly common occurrence, though as you say, its not fair to >>>> tar all >>>> twitchers with that brush as I know many who wouldn't enter a >>>> property >>>> without permission. However those that do give all birders, not just >>>> twitchers, a bad name with the general public. >>>> >>>> I will say this though, a recent study by our own Dr Laurie Knight >>>> showed >>>> that the more fanatical a twitcher is, the less they care about >>>> conservation. That's hard data from a fairly broad survey there (I >>>> hope >>>> I've paraphrased your work correctly there Laurie, feel free to >>>> jump in if >>>> I'm misquoting). >>>> >>>> As for earlier questions about collectors, I'd love to hear from >>>> someone in >>>> the customs department, but I know for a fact they are still >>>> finding living >>>> animals being smuggled, and I have little doubt that the same would >>>> go for >>>> dead animals - there are a lot of people for whom collecting skins/ >>>> specimens >>>> is akin to stamp collecting (or pokemon for the younger people out >>>> there >>>> reading this...gotta catch em all). Look no further than our own >>>> official >>>> bodies - out there looking to collect one or several of the newly >>>> found >>>> Spotted Quail-Thrush in Far North QLD before they even know if its >>>> a new >>>> species or even how many there are in the population... >>>> >>>> Back to the point at hand. I thought the objection was over GPS >>>> co-ordinates being given in an open online forum. A general >>>> location in the >>>> email with an offer of directions offline would be fine I would >>>> think, as >>>> suggested by an earlier poster. At least that means someone >>>> wanting to >>>> break the law has to leave evidence in the form of an email if they >>>> want the >>>> details. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Tim Jones >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Peter, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just >>>>> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible >>>>> harm they >>>>> do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of >>>>> something which >>>>> has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many >>>>> 'fanatical twitches' in my time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but >>>>> most >>>>> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also >>>>> want >>>>> future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and >>>>> wonderful wildlife. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of >>>>> statement >>>>> tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >>>>>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>>>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >>>>>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do >>>>>> believe >>>>> that >>>>>> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their >>>>>> collection. Its >>>>> no >>>>>> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed >>>>> recently >>>>>> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless >>>>>> pastime on >>>>> the >>>>>> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of >>>>>> all the >>>>>> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see >>>>>> such a >>>>> person >>>>>> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting >>>>>> it to get >>>>>> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical >>>>>> Twitchers get >>>>> up >>>>>> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give >>>>> information >>>>>> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in >>>>>> such >>>>>> behaviour. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Peter Shute" >>>>>> To: ; >>>>>> Cc: ; >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) >>>>>>> but >>>>> would >>>>>>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter Shute >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------- >>>>>>> Sent using BlackBerry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: Keith Brandwood >>>>>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; >>>>>>> birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in >>>>>>> Dubbo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Keith, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I heartily agree. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Carl Clifford >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species >>>>>>> such as >>>>>>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>>>>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required >>>>>>> is to >>>>>>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then >>>>>>> after >>>>>>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>>>>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and >>>>>>> kicking. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: >>>>>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>>>>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>>>>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>>>>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, >>>>>>> N of >>>>>>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>>>>>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>>>>>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the >>>>>>> end of >>>>>>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth >>>>>>> 32deg >>>>>>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>>>>>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>>>>>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie >>>>>>> Forest Rd, >>>>>>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure >>>>>>> some may >>>>>>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species >>>>>>> between >>>>>>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Frank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Frank Hemmings >>>>>>> Curator >>>>>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>>>>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>>>>>> University of New South Wales >>>>>>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>>>>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>>>>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>>>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>>>>> send the message: >>>>>>> unsubscribe >>>>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>>> ========== >>>>>>> =============================== >>>>>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>>>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>>> =============================== >>>>>>> >>>>>>> =============================== >>>>>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>>>>> send the message: >>>>>>> unsubscribe >>>>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>>> =============================== >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> =============================== >>>>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>>>> send the message: >>>>>> unsubscribe >>>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>> =============================== >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> View photos of singles in your area Click Here >>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/www.birding-aus.org >>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>>> send the message: >>>>> unsubscribe >>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>> >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >> > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Little Stint at Woorinen VIC 02 November 2009 From: Peter Lansley <bluenuthatch AT yahoo.com.au> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:54:41 -0800 (PST) Hi all, at South Drainage Lake, Woorinen, Vic. (about 20 km northwest of Swan Hill) myself & Scott Baker found a full breeding plumage Little Stint and obtained a number of photographs of same. The bird was observed for over an hour (11:00 - 12:20) before disappearing. Other highlights in nw. Vic over the long weekend were: Pied Honeyeater (50 at Yarrara FFR including flock of 40 on the move over the canopy, mostly males), Crimson Chat (Murray Sunset NP & Goschen), Orange Chat (almost everywhere in chenopod shrublands), Pacific Golden Plover (1, South Drainage Lake), Glossy Ibises, Cockateils, Black Honeyeaters (Goschen), 4 spp. Woodswallow (all Aus. spp. except Dusky & Little), and Red-lored Whistler (Murray Sunset NP). P.S. Lansley. __________________________________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Black-bellied Storm-Petrels off Sydney From: "Roger McGovern" <roglou AT bigpond.net.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:04:38 +1100 Last Friday (October 30) two Black-bellied Storm-Petrels were seen and photographed on a pelagic charter out of Sydney (I was away in NZ and missed the trip unfortunately!). This is the second good rarity in the space of a couple of weeks after a juvenile Grey-headed Albatross was seen on October 21st. With a beachcast Southern Fulmar found recently at Boat Harbour, the pelagic action seems pretty good around Sydney at the moment. The next regular Sydney pelagic trip is scheduled for Saturday 14th November and there are still plenty of places available. Please call Hal on 0411 311 236 to make a booking. Cheers Roger McGovern =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: correction re: Brush Turkeys & Koel hosts From: Andrew Taylor <andrewt AT cse.unsw.edu.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:34:51 +1100 Ian McAllan sent me a polite e-mail pointing out several of the things I said about historical Brush Turkey observations were doubtful. I was paraphrasing a recent paper (details appended). The Cape Howe "record" stems from Gould saying: "How far the range of the Wattled talegallus may extend over Australia is not yet satisfactorily ascertained; it is known to inhabit various parts of New South Wales, from Cape Howe to Moreton Bay" Ian suggests Gould had little information about the NSW far south coast - so the most plausible explanation would be a mis-statement by Gould. The Goulburn (Wollondilly) 1834 report seems to distinguish brush-turkey from bustard - but they do get confused in early accounts and its far from impossible thats what happened. The observer for the 1920s Jindabyne/Thredbo report seems reliable but its a long way from any other records. There is a discussion here with respect to an possible historical ACT record here: http://cbn.canberrabirds.org.au/documents/cbnvol24no3.pdf Anyway historical occurrence of brush-turkey south of Sydney, apart from Illawarra-Shoalhaven, is at best debatable. Ian was also doubtful about historical records for Sydney itself so brush-turkey may be invading rather than reoccupying Sydney. And while I'm making corrections, I mentioned Figbirds & Magpie-larks as koel hosts. I was misremembering e-mail to birding-aus from Alan Morris. Koels apparently do not parasitize these species in the Newcastle-Sydney-Wollongong area. Which seems strange as they do further north. Instead they parasitize Red Wattlebird, Noisy Friarbird and Little Wattlebird. Also someone asked about currawongs, personally I haven't noticed much change in Pied Currawong abundance in the last 25 years in inner Sydney (not that is saying much - and other people do seem to have noticed increased abundance) but apparently in the preceding 25 years they went from non-breeding vistors to common breeders, a major change in host availability for CBCs. I have the vague impression raven numbers have increased in my part of Sydney over the last 2 decades too. Andrew "Present and Past Distribution of Australian Brush-turkeys Alectura lathami in New South Wales-Implications for Management", Goeth, A. and Nicol, K.P. and Ross, G. and Shields, J.J., Pacific Conservation Biology, 12(1), 2006 =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "licole AT ozemail.com.au" <licole@ozemail.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:33:41 +0800 =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben From: "Chris Corben" <corben AT hoarybat.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:07:26 -0600 > Chris, d oes this situation of common but unnamed bats exist elsewhere in > the developed world? Not in the same way, I would think. If I tell bat workers in Europe about having two un-named species in the middle of Brisbane, they think I'm kidding, and then find it scandalous. There are certainly many issues to be resolved in bat taxonomy in Europe and North America, but they are mostly at a much more subtle level than the problems in Australia. But to be fair, the problems faced in Australia are different, because of the low population density (meaning less bat workers per bat) and historical problems with type specimens and the difficulty of sorting out the myriad of populations which exist and how they relate to each other over the scale of a continent, most of which is not occupied by bat workers. Bats are generally much more difficult to work with than birds - very distinctive species often don't look too different to a human. The biggest problem is that the importance of the process has largely been lost. At the same time, museums throughout the world have been starved of resources and the perceived value of long-term collections keeps getting downgraded. Genetic work has largely supplanted the methodical morphological work which was the mainstay in the past, and while genetic work has tremendous value and has done a lot to resolve many taxonomic issues, it isn't everything. Consider just the point that you can work out how to identify taxa genetically, but unless someone puts the work into resolving morphological correlates, that doesn't help anyone know how to identify those animals in the field. It is quite right that genetic work has become so prominent. What is troubling is that it has done so at the expense of any other approaches. Genetics won't solve everything - there are species which act as very good species in the traditional sense or even morhpologically, which genetic work fails to resolve. Better techniques can be expected to improve this. But it won't solve the problem that people skilled in the morphological side of it are dying out and not being replaced. This will inevitably cause a brain drain and a loss of skills which are increasingly important to wildlife management, yet increasingly difficult to replace. But not everyone will be unhappy about that.... Unfortunately, that part of the human population which cares (and I really think it is a big part) happily goes along believing the governing powers are looking after things. How many of you know that Australia has just lost yet another mammal? The Christmas Island Pipistrelle (yes another bat) has been declining precipitously for years (it used to be very common), yet nothing was done except when it was completely too late. Yep - they found one bat. Hopefully this couldn't happen with birds, because there are so many people like yourselves who are keeping an eye on things. Or are there? I was dismayed to hear the latest news about the Western Ground parrot, and bizarrely enough, the perception that elevating it to species status might save it. For crying out loud! Twenty years ago the Queensland Forest Service, no less, accepted the notion that it shouldn't be making regional populations of anything extinct. Not just named taxa, but regional populations. Why isn't this Parrot's status news, and well known to everyone? It seems to me it would make a difference if the public actually KNEW about it! I doubt people are all that blase about a parrot going extinct! Cheers, Chris. =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Graham Turner" <origma AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:50:40 +1100 Surely a lack of data should lead to the precautionary principal being applied rather than believing (hoping) there is no problem. Graham Turner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jones" To: ; "birding aus" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 7:06 PM Subject: RE: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo Peter, What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm they do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of something which has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many 'fanatical twitches' in my time. There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and wonderful wildlife. I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of statement tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. Cheers Tim > From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com > To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 > CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; > > Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe that > there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their collection. Its > no > different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed > recently > on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on the > surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the > parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a > person > trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to get > the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical Twitchers get > up > to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give > information > to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such > behaviour. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Shute" > To: ; > Cc: ; > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > >I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but > >would > >someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? > > > > Peter Shute > > > > > > -------------------------- > > Sent using BlackBerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > > > > To: Keith Brandwood > > Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > > > > Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > > Keith, > > > > I heartily agree. > > > > Carl Clifford > > > > > > On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: > > > > Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as > > the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. > > Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to > > ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after > > vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. > > Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" > > > > > > To: > > Cc: "David Eldridge" > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM > > Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David > > Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in > > Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on > > the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The > > bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of > > the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There > > were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, > > further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of > > Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg > > 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me > > which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without > > expecting it at a site was a great suprise. > > > > Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, > > 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. > > > > I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may > > be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between > > Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, > > > > Frank > > > > Frank Hemmings > > Curator > > John T. Waterhouse Herbarium > > School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences > > University of New South Wales > > UNSW SYDNEY 2052 > > AUSTRALIA > > > > Tel +61 2 9385 3274 > > Fax +61 2 9385 1558 > > > > CRICOS Provider Code:00098G > > ==========www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > ========== > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== _________________________________________________________________ View photos of singles in your area Click Here http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =========== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: Denise Goodfellow <goodfellow AT bigpond.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:54:15 +0930 I sent all enquiries on to Parks & Wildlife, and yes, I did some jumping up and down with the media. I later tried to get P & W (and the parks authority in Kakadu) to act against tour operators who were ramming crocodiles with their boats. Nothing happened and so I ran a national campaign against such operators. The NT News was the only publication not to print my letter. Incidentally I had some very good friends among the rangers. One, Bruce Weribone, I met when he came to our house to inspect the living quarters of an injured goanna, telling us it looked so healthy he felt like moving in too! We later worked together training Indigenous rangers in Katherine - Bruce was their supervisor. Denise on 4/11/09 8:03 AM, Carl Clifford at carlsclifford AT gmail.com wrote: > I hope you referred all injured and orphaned wildlife enquiries to the > ranger in question from then on. And also advised those who contacted > you to go to the media if refused assistance. > > Cheers, > > Carl Clifford > > > On 04/11/2009, at 5:06 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: > > Back in the late 1980s a Parks and Wildlife Ranger refused to grant > Hilary > Thompson and me a permit to care for injured and orphaned wildlife. > At the > time there were very few carers and so we were often asked to take > injured > or orphaned animals. > > We wanted a permit because half a cozen people we knew who had been told > they didn't need one, had later had their animals seized. Such people > included our school headmaster, who for years had been caring for native > birds, and was quite an authority. > > The ranger refused on the grounds that we might, for instance, go out > and > find a nest of Pheasant Coucal chicks, report them as orphaned, "break > their > legs" (heavens knows why he added this), then when the legs had healed, > smuggle them overseas. > > I decided it was not in our best interests to continue taking in > wildlife. > We do collect roadkills, having been asked to by staff at the NT > Museum, but > that's all. > > Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow > PO Box 3460 NT 0832, AUSTRALIA > Ph. 61 08 89 328306 > Mobile: 04 386 50 835 > > Birdwatching and Indigenous tourism consultant > PhD Candidate > > http://www.denisegoodfellow.com.au > http://www.earthfoot.org > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming > http://www.ausbird.com > http://birderstravel.com > http://www.theloveofood.com (Rowan Goodfellow Thompson) > > > > > on 3/11/09 5:36 PM, Tim Jones at tim_jones8 AT hotmail.com wrote: > >> >> Peter, >> >> >> >> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just >> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible >> harm they >> do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of >> something which >> has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many >> 'fanatical >> twitches' in my time. >> >> >> >> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most >> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also >> want future >> generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and >> wonderful >> wildlife. >> >> >> >> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of >> statement tars >> us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. >> >> >> >> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >>> >>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do >>> believe that >>> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their >>> collection. Its no >>> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed >>> recently >>> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime >>> on the >>> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all >>> the >>> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such >>> a person >>> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it >>> to get >>> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical >>> Twitchers get up >>> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give >>> information >>> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such >>> behaviour. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Peter Shute" >>> To: ; >>> Cc: ; >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> >>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) >>>> but would >>>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>>> >>>> Peter Shute >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------- >>>> Sent using BlackBerry >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> To: Keith Brandwood >>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> Keith, >>>> >>>> I heartily agree. >>>> >>>> Carl Clifford >>>> >>>> >>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>>> >>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species >>>> such as >>>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to >>>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after >>>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>>> >>>> >>>> To: >>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in >>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on >>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of >>>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end >>>> of >>>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg >>>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>>> >>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest >>>> Rd, >>>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some >>>> may >>>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species >>>> between >>>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> Frank Hemmings >>>> Curator >>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>>> University of New South Wales >>>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> >>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>>> >>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> ========== >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> View photos of singles in your area Click Here >> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/=============================>> = >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> ============================== > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: Penny Brockman <pennedb AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:36:20 +1100 Fanatical twitchers in Australia are unlikely to be problem - so far. However, I hear things are not so rosy in the UK where there are 1,000s/10,000s ?? of fanatical twitchers prepared to fly from one end of the country to the other at the drop of a new vagrant. The Scilly Isles landowners seem to have a grouch and there have been reports of areas closed from twitchers. > > > What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm they do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of something which has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many 'fanatical twitches' in my time. > > > > There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and wonderful wildlife. > > > > I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of statement tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. > > > > NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. > > > > Cheers > > > > Tim > > > > > >> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >> >> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe that >> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their collection. Its no >> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed recently >> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on the >> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the >> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a person >> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to get >> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical Twitchers get up >> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give information >> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such >> behaviour. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Shute" >> To: ; >> Cc: ; >> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >> >> >> >>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but would >>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>> >>> Peter Shute >>> >>> >>> -------------------------- >>> Sent using BlackBerry >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>> >>> To: Keith Brandwood >>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>> >>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> Keith, >>> >>> I heartily agree. >>> >>> Carl Clifford >>> >>> >>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>> >>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as >>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to >>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after >>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>> >> >>> To: >>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in >>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on >>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of >>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of >>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg >>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>> >>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, >>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>> >>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may >>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between >>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>> >>> Frank >>> >>> Frank Hemmings >>> Curator >>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>> University of New South Wales >>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>> AUSTRALIA >>> >>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>> >>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> ========== >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >>> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > View photos of singles in your area Click Here > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/==============================www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > ============================ > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Peter Madvig" <madvig AT iprimus.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:34:20 +1100 Denise, Re yr Rangers.......beaurocracy gone mad?! I think some of these folk are officious to such a degree they must lack any sense of practical application. WHERE do they get their training, and from whom?? regards, Peter Madvig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise Goodfellow" To: "Tim Jones" ; ; "Birding Aus" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > Back in the late 1980s a Parks and Wildlife Ranger refused to grant Hilary > Thompson and me a permit to care for injured and orphaned wildlife. At > the > time there were very few carers and so we were often asked to take > injured > or orphaned animals. > > We wanted a permit because half a cozen people we knew who had been told > they didn't need one, had later had their animals seized. Such people > included our school headmaster, who for years had been caring for native > birds, and was quite an authority. > > The ranger refused on the grounds that we might, for instance, go out and > find a nest of Pheasant Coucal chicks, report them as orphaned, "break > their > legs" (heavens knows why he added this), then when the legs had healed, > smuggle them overseas. > > I decided it was not in our best interests to continue taking in wildlife. > We do collect roadkills, having been asked to by staff at the NT Museum, > but > that's all. > > Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow > PO Box 3460 NT 0832, AUSTRALIA > Ph. 61 08 89 328306 > Mobile: 04 386 50 835 > > Birdwatching and Indigenous tourism consultant > PhD Candidate > > http://www.denisegoodfellow.com.au > http://www.earthfoot.org > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming > http://www.ausbird.com > http://birderstravel.com > http://www.theloveofood.com (Rowan Goodfellow Thompson) > > > > > on 3/11/09 5:36 PM, Tim Jones at tim_jones8 AT hotmail.com wrote: > >> >> Peter, >> >> >> >> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just >> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm >> they >> do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of something >> which >> has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many >> 'fanatical >> twitches' in my time. >> >> >> >> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most >> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want >> future >> generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and wonderful >> wildlife. >> >> >> >> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of statement >> tars >> us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. >> >> >> >> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >>> >>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe >>> that >>> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their collection. >>> Its no >>> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed >>> recently >>> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on >>> the >>> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the >>> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a >>> person >>> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to >>> get >>> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical Twitchers >>> get up >>> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give >>> information >>> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such >>> behaviour. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Peter Shute" >>> To: ; >>> Cc: ; >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> >>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but >>>> would >>>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>>> >>>> Peter Shute >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------- >>>> Sent using BlackBerry >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> To: Keith Brandwood >>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> Keith, >>>> >>>> I heartily agree. >>>> >>>> Carl Clifford >>>> >>>> >>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>>> >>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as >>>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to >>>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after >>>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>>> >>>> >>>> To: >>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in >>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on >>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of >>>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of >>>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg >>>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>>> >>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, >>>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may >>>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between >>>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> Frank Hemmings >>>> Curator >>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>>> University of New South Wales >>>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> >>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>>> >>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> ========== >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> View photos of singles in your area Click Here >> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> ============================== > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Alan Gillanders" <alan AT alanswildlifetours.com.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:23:04 +1000 Well said Carl. Back in the late 70s and early 80s I used to care for wildlife, often brought to me by national parks and forestry staff. When threatened with prosecution if I did not get a permit, I stopped. But to be honest I was becoming tired of the practise anyway. Most of the effort was going into common species and I decided to put my effort into changing the management of habitat and extending protection. Regards, Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Clifford" < >I hope you referred all injured and orphaned wildlife enquiries to the >ranger in question from then on. And also advised those who contacted you >to go to the media if refused assistance. > > Cheers, > > Carl Clifford =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: Denise Goodfellow <goodfellow AT bigpond.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:07:25 +0930 Yes, they do, but are less likely to according to the research. Denise on 4/11/09 7:48 AM, John Tongue at jspk AT iprimus.com.au wrote: > So women don't twitch or stamp collect??? > > John Tongue > Ulverstone, Tas. > > > On 04/11/2009, at 5:26 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: > >> I'd be interested in seeing Laurie's research. I've some US papers >> that >> mention this as well. >> >> I've twice, in 26 years, been guiding birders who have either entered >> private property or gone into sensitive habitat. The last one, a >> woman just >> a few months ago, entered a preschool grounds after a bird. A few >> have been >> disgruntled when I refused to play tapes to call up birds in >> particular >> areas. >> >> The biggest issue in the Top End that I'm aware of is birders >> entering the >> sewage ponds without a permit, resulting in management becoming very >> upset >> to the point of threatening to arrest them. Consequently, access to >> the >> ponds has been further tightened. >> >> However, in my experience up here, combat or gonzo birders (as they're >> called in the US) tend to put themselves at risk more than the >> birds, for >> instance insisting on going out when it's very hot and humid. Two, >> whom I >> refused to accompany one stinking hot afternoon, later collapsed >> with heat >> exhaustion. >> >> The desire to systematise eg by stamp collecting or twitching, seems >> to be a >> feature of the male brain according to research I've read. >> Denise >> >> Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow >> PO Box 3460 NT 0832, AUSTRALIA >> Ph. 61 08 89 328306 >> Mobile: 04 386 50 835 >> >> Birdwatching and Indigenous tourism consultant >> PhD Candidate >> >> http://www.denisegoodfellow.com.au >> http://www.earthfoot.org >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming >> http://www.ausbird.com >> http://birderstravel.com >> http://www.theloveofood.com (Rowan Goodfellow Thompson) >> >> >> >> on 3/11/09 9:40 PM, Chris Sanderson at chris.sanderson AT gmail.com >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Tim, >>> >>> I believe in the UK a small number of rare birds have died from >>> constant >>> harassment leading to an inability to feed to recover from a long >>> trip. >>> This is possibly what Peter is referring to? Also I hear from >>> various >>> sources of cases where twitchers (usually identity unknown) have been >>> observed by landholders to tresspass to look for birds. This still >>> appears >>> to be a sadly common occurrence, though as you say, its not fair to >>> tar all >>> twitchers with that brush as I know many who wouldn't enter a >>> property >>> without permission. However those that do give all birders, not just >>> twitchers, a bad name with the general public. >>> >>> I will say this though, a recent study by our own Dr Laurie Knight >>> showed >>> that the more fanatical a twitcher is, the less they care about >>> conservation. That's hard data from a fairly broad survey there (I >>> hope >>> I've paraphrased your work correctly there Laurie, feel free to >>> jump in if >>> I'm misquoting). >>> >>> As for earlier questions about collectors, I'd love to hear from >>> someone in >>> the customs department, but I know for a fact they are still >>> finding living >>> animals being smuggled, and I have little doubt that the same would >>> go for >>> dead animals - there are a lot of people for whom collecting skins/ >>> specimens >>> is akin to stamp collecting (or pokemon for the younger people out >>> there >>> reading this...gotta catch em all). Look no further than our own >>> official >>> bodies - out there looking to collect one or several of the newly >>> found >>> Spotted Quail-Thrush in Far North QLD before they even know if its >>> a new >>> species or even how many there are in the population... >>> >>> Back to the point at hand. I thought the objection was over GPS >>> co-ordinates being given in an open online forum. A general >>> location in the >>> email with an offer of directions offline would be fine I would >>> think, as >>> suggested by an earlier poster. At least that means someone >>> wanting to >>> break the law has to leave evidence in the form of an email if they >>> want the >>> details. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Chris >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Tim Jones >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Peter, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just >>>> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible >>>> harm they >>>> do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of >>>> something which >>>> has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many >>>> 'fanatical twitches' in my time. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but >>>> most >>>> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also >>>> want >>>> future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and >>>> wonderful wildlife. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of >>>> statement >>>> tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >>>>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >>>>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >>>>> >>>>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do >>>>> believe >>>> that >>>>> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their >>>>> collection. Its >>>> no >>>>> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed >>>> recently >>>>> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless >>>>> pastime on >>>> the >>>>> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of >>>>> all the >>>>> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see >>>>> such a >>>> person >>>>> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting >>>>> it to get >>>>> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical >>>>> Twitchers get >>>> up >>>>> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give >>>> information >>>>> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in >>>>> such >>>>> behaviour. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Peter Shute" >>>>> To: ; >>>>> Cc: ; >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) >>>>>> but >>>> would >>>>>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Shute >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------- >>>>>> Sent using BlackBerry >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>> >>>>>> To: Keith Brandwood >>>>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in >>>>>> Dubbo >>>>>> >>>>>> Keith, >>>>>> >>>>>> I heartily agree. >>>>>> >>>>>> Carl Clifford >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species >>>>>> such as >>>>>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>>>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required >>>>>> is to >>>>>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then >>>>>> after >>>>>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>>>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and >>>>>> kicking. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>>>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>>>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe >>>>>> in >>>>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen >>>>>> on >>>>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>>>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, >>>>>> N of >>>>>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>>>>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>>>>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the >>>>>> end of >>>>>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth >>>>>> 32deg >>>>>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>>>>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>>>>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie >>>>>> Forest Rd, >>>>>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure >>>>>> some may >>>>>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species >>>>>> between >>>>>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Frank >>>>>> >>>>>> Frank Hemmings >>>>>> Curator >>>>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>>>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>>>>> University of New South Wales >>>>>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>>>>> AUSTRALIA >>>>>> >>>>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>>>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>>>>> >>>>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>>>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>>>> send the message: >>>>>> unsubscribe >>>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>> ========== >>>>>> =============================== >>>>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>> =============================== >>>>>> >>>>>> =============================== >>>>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>>>> send the message: >>>>>> unsubscribe >>>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>>> =============================== >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> =============================== >>>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>>> send the message: >>>>> unsubscribe >>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> View photos of singles in your area Click Here >>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 09:33:08 +1100 I hope you referred all injured and orphaned wildlife enquiries to the ranger in question from then on. And also advised those who contacted you to go to the media if refused assistance. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 04/11/2009, at 5:06 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: Back in the late 1980s a Parks and Wildlife Ranger refused to grant Hilary Thompson and me a permit to care for injured and orphaned wildlife. At the time there were very few carers and so we were often asked to take injured or orphaned animals. We wanted a permit because half a cozen people we knew who had been told they didn't need one, had later had their animals seized. Such people included our school headmaster, who for years had been caring for native birds, and was quite an authority. The ranger refused on the grounds that we might, for instance, go out and find a nest of Pheasant Coucal chicks, report them as orphaned, "break their legs" (heavens knows why he added this), then when the legs had healed, smuggle them overseas. I decided it was not in our best interests to continue taking in wildlife. We do collect roadkills, having been asked to by staff at the NT Museum, but that's all. Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow PO Box 3460 NT 0832, AUSTRALIA Ph. 61 08 89 328306 Mobile: 04 386 50 835 Birdwatching and Indigenous tourism consultant PhD Candidate http://www.denisegoodfellow.com.au http://www.earthfoot.org http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming http://www.ausbird.com http://birderstravel.com http://www.theloveofood.com (Rowan Goodfellow Thompson) on 3/11/09 5:36 PM, Tim Jones at tim_jones8 AT hotmail.com wrote: > > Peter, > > > > What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just > sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible > harm they > do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of > something which > has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many > 'fanatical > twitches' in my time. > > > > There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most > 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also > want future > generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and > wonderful > wildlife. > > > > I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of > statement tars > us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. > > > > NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. > > > > Cheers > > > > Tim > > > > >> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >> >> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do >> believe that >> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their >> collection. Its no >> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed >> recently >> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime >> on the >> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all >> the >> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such >> a person >> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it >> to get >> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical >> Twitchers get up >> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give >> information >> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such >> behaviour. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Shute" >> To: ; >> Cc: ; >> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >> >> >>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) >>> but would >>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>> >>> Peter Shute >>> >>> >>> -------------------------- >>> Sent using BlackBerry >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>> >>> To: Keith Brandwood >>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>> >>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> Keith, >>> >>> I heartily agree. >>> >>> Carl Clifford >>> >>> >>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>> >>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species >>> such as >>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to >>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after >>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>> >>> >>> To: >>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in >>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on >>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of >>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end >>> of >>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg >>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>> >>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest >>> Rd, >>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>> >>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some >>> may >>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species >>> between >>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>> >>> Frank >>> >>> Frank Hemmings >>> Curator >>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>> University of New South Wales >>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>> AUSTRALIA >>> >>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>> >>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> ========== >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== > > _________________________________________________________________ > View photos of singles in your area Click Here > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > ============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: Denise Goodfellow <goodfellow AT bigpond.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:36:11 +0930 Back in the late 1980s a Parks and Wildlife Ranger refused to grant Hilary Thompson and me a permit to care for injured and orphaned wildlife. At the time there were very few carers and so we were often asked to take injured or orphaned animals. We wanted a permit because half a cozen people we knew who had been told they didn't need one, had later had their animals seized. Such people included our school headmaster, who for years had been caring for native birds, and was quite an authority. The ranger refused on the grounds that we might, for instance, go out and find a nest of Pheasant Coucal chicks, report them as orphaned, "break their legs" (heavens knows why he added this), then when the legs had healed, smuggle them overseas. I decided it was not in our best interests to continue taking in wildlife. We do collect roadkills, having been asked to by staff at the NT Museum, but that's all. Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow PO Box 3460 NT 0832, AUSTRALIA Ph. 61 08 89 328306 Mobile: 04 386 50 835 Birdwatching and Indigenous tourism consultant PhD Candidate http://www.denisegoodfellow.com.au http://www.earthfoot.org http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming http://www.ausbird.com http://birderstravel.com http://www.theloveofood.com (Rowan Goodfellow Thompson) on 3/11/09 5:36 PM, Tim Jones at tim_jones8 AT hotmail.com wrote: > > Peter, > > > > What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just > sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm they > do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of something which > has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many 'fanatical > twitches' in my time. > > > > There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most > 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want future > generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and wonderful > wildlife. > > > > I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of statement tars > us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. > > > > NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. > > > > Cheers > > > > Tim > > > > >> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >> >> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe that >> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their collection. Its no >> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed recently >> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on the >> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the >> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a person >> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to get >> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical Twitchers get up >> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give information >> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such >> behaviour. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Peter Shute" >> To: ; >> Cc: ; >> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >> >> >>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but would >>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>> >>> Peter Shute >>> >>> >>> -------------------------- >>> Sent using BlackBerry >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>> >>> To: Keith Brandwood >>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>> >>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> Keith, >>> >>> I heartily agree. >>> >>> Carl Clifford >>> >>> >>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>> >>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as >>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to >>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after >>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>> >>> >>> To: >>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in >>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on >>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of >>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of >>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg >>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>> >>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, >>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>> >>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may >>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between >>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>> >>> Frank >>> >>> Frank Hemmings >>> Curator >>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>> University of New South Wales >>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>> AUSTRALIA >>> >>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>> >>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> ========== >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== > > _________________________________________________________________ > View photos of singles in your area Click Here > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > ============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: Denise Goodfellow <goodfellow AT bigpond.com.au> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:56:12 +0930 I'd be interested in seeing Laurie's research. I've some US papers that mention this as well. I've twice, in 26 years, been guiding birders who have either entered private property or gone into sensitive habitat. The last one, a woman just a few months ago, entered a preschool grounds after a bird. A few have been disgruntled when I refused to play tapes to call up birds in particular areas. The biggest issue in the Top End that I'm aware of is birders entering the sewage ponds without a permit, resulting in management becoming very upset to the point of threatening to arrest them. Consequently, access to the ponds has been further tightened. However, in my experience up here, combat or gonzo birders (as they're called in the US) tend to put themselves at risk more than the birds, for instance insisting on going out when it's very hot and humid. Two, whom I refused to accompany one stinking hot afternoon, later collapsed with heat exhaustion. The desire to systematise eg by stamp collecting or twitching, seems to be a feature of the male brain according to research I've read. Denise Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow PO Box 3460 NT 0832, AUSTRALIA Ph. 61 08 89 328306 Mobile: 04 386 50 835 Birdwatching and Indigenous tourism consultant PhD Candidate http://www.denisegoodfellow.com.au http://www.earthfoot.org http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baby-dreaming http://www.ausbird.com http://birderstravel.com http://www.theloveofood.com (Rowan Goodfellow Thompson) on 3/11/09 9:40 PM, Chris Sanderson at chris.sanderson AT gmail.com wrote: > Hi Tim, > > I believe in the UK a small number of rare birds have died from constant > harassment leading to an inability to feed to recover from a long trip. > This is possibly what Peter is referring to? Also I hear from various > sources of cases where twitchers (usually identity unknown) have been > observed by landholders to tresspass to look for birds. This still appears > to be a sadly common occurrence, though as you say, its not fair to tar all > twitchers with that brush as I know many who wouldn't enter a property > without permission. However those that do give all birders, not just > twitchers, a bad name with the general public. > > I will say this though, a recent study by our own Dr Laurie Knight showed > that the more fanatical a twitcher is, the less they care about > conservation. That's hard data from a fairly broad survey there (I hope > I've paraphrased your work correctly there Laurie, feel free to jump in if > I'm misquoting). > > As for earlier questions about collectors, I'd love to hear from someone in > the customs department, but I know for a fact they are still finding living > animals being smuggled, and I have little doubt that the same would go for > dead animals - there are a lot of people for whom collecting skins/specimens > is akin to stamp collecting (or pokemon for the younger people out there > reading this...gotta catch em all). Look no further than our own official > bodies - out there looking to collect one or several of the newly found > Spotted Quail-Thrush in Far North QLD before they even know if its a new > species or even how many there are in the population... > > Back to the point at hand. I thought the objection was over GPS > co-ordinates being given in an open online forum. A general location in the > email with an offer of directions offline would be fine I would think, as > suggested by an earlier poster. At least that means someone wanting to > break the law has to leave evidence in the form of an email if they want the > details. > > Regards, > Chris > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Tim Jones wrote: > >> >> Peter, >> >> >> >> What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just >> sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm they >> do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of something which >> has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many >> 'fanatical twitches' in my time. >> >> >> >> There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most >> 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want >> future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and >> wonderful wildlife. >> >> >> >> I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of statement >> tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. >> >> >> >> NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >>> From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com >>> To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 >>> CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; >>> >>> Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe >> that >>> there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their collection. Its >> no >>> different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed >> recently >>> on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on >> the >>> surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the >>> parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a >> person >>> trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to get >>> the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical Twitchers get >> up >>> to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give >> information >>> to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such >>> behaviour. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Peter Shute" >>> To: ; >>> Cc: ; >>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>> >>> >>>> I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but >> would >>>> someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? >>>> >>>> Peter Shute >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------- >>>> Sent using BlackBerry >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> To: Keith Brandwood >>>> Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>> >>>> Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 >>>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> Keith, >>>> >>>> I heartily agree. >>>> >>>> Carl Clifford >>>> >>>> >>>> On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>>> >>>> Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as >>>> the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. >>>> Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to >>>> ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after >>>> vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. >>>> Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" >>>> >>>> >>>> To: >>>> Cc: "David Eldridge" >>>> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM >>>> Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David >>>> Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in >>>> Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on >>>> the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The >>>> bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of >>>> the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There >>>> were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, >>>> further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of >>>> Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg >>>> 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me >>>> which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without >>>> expecting it at a site was a great suprise. >>>> >>>> Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, >>>> 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may >>>> be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between >>>> Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> Frank Hemmings >>>> Curator >>>> John T. Waterhouse Herbarium >>>> School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences >>>> University of New South Wales >>>> UNSW SYDNEY 2052 >>>> AUSTRALIA >>>> >>>> Tel +61 2 9385 3274 >>>> Fax +61 2 9385 1558 >>>> >>>> CRICOS Provider Code:00098G >>>> ==========www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> ========== >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>> send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> View photos of singles in your area Click Here >> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Needletails near Brisbane From: "Trevor Ford" <tachuris163 AT bigpond.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:59:44 +1000 G'day, Is Mike Tarbuton still out there collecting data on swifts? If so, "Hi Mike" and... On Sunday, Nov 1st 2009, I saw a flock of approximately 500 White-throated Needletails moving south, just east of Brisbane, QLD. I was driving north-east along Lytton Road, just south of the Brisbane River, towards Fisherman Islands, probably a couple of kilometres or so away from the coast to the east at Wynnum. Yes, I did stop the car - the swifts were an impressive sight! Cheers - Trevor. Trevor Ford ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben From: Peter Shute <pshute AT nuw.org.au> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 05:28:50 +1100 Chris, d oes this situation of common but unnamed bats exist elsewhere in the developed world? Peter Shute -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au To: Peter Menkhorst ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Sent: Wed Nov 04 03:03:14 2009 Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben Hi Peter You are too kind, but many thanks anyway. I'd like to explain the significance of this paper. Harry Parnaby has taken a species which has traditionally been regarded as widespread in Australia (and outside Australia) and shown that within Australia it is really a complex of at least 3 species. This is sort of analagous to the splitting of the Ground Parrot - you can see the conservation implications! People on Birding-Aus might get irritated, or hopefully fascinated, by the taxonomic changes which occur in birds. There is only one bat species for every 8 or 9 bird species in Australia, yet a significant proportion of bat species are still not even named. In Brisbane, two of the commonest species have never been named! These are mammals, remember! In Brisbane! I'd like to present another quote from Harry's paper. "Despite the implications of unrecognised species for effective conservation management, and consequently the obvious relevance of taxonomic studies, species taxonomy still appears to be perceived as either an irrelevancy, a low priority by managers and funding bodies alike, or as the domain of academic research rather than management, i.e. someone else's problem." People in general have an over-optimistic view of how well our wildlife resources are cared for. In his paper, Harry gives his address as "Hon. Research Associate" at the Australian Museum. Note the "Hon" bit! He isn't paid to produce a 43 page scientific paper revising the taxonomy of these bats, despite the obvious importance of such work to a basic inventory of Australian wildlife. Yes, well done Harry, and let's hope we live to see better funding for research which is fundamental to our knowledge of wildlife and how to look after it. Cheers, Chris Corben. (named after a bat, I'm told!) =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Brush Turkey locations, NSW From: "Richard Johnstone" <rjohnsto AT tpg.com.au> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:57:22 +1100 I don't know how much this adds to the thread, but I remember seeing a Brush Turkey at Kurrajong Heights in the lower Blue Mountains (Warks Rd), in about 1974 or 1975. I visited my relatives there fairly often and only ever saw one. Richard ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben From: "Chris Corben" <corben AT hoarybat.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:03:14 -0600 Hi Peter You are too kind, but many thanks anyway. I'd like to explain the significance of this paper. Harry Parnaby has taken a species which has traditionally been regarded as widespread in Australia (and outside Australia) and shown that within Australia it is really a complex of at least 3 species. This is sort of analagous to the splitting of the Ground Parrot - you can see the conservation implications! People on Birding-Aus might get irritated, or hopefully fascinated, by the taxonomic changes which occur in birds. There is only one bat species for every 8 or 9 bird species in Australia, yet a significant proportion of bat species are still not even named. In Brisbane, two of the commonest species have never been named! These are mammals, remember! In Brisbane! I'd like to present another quote from Harry's paper. "Despite the implications of unrecognised species for effective conservation management, and consequently the obvious relevance of taxonomic studies, species taxonomy still appears to be perceived as either an irrelevancy, a low priority by managers and funding bodies alike, or as the domain of academic research rather than management, i.e. someone else's problem." People in general have an over-optimistic view of how well our wildlife resources are cared for. In his paper, Harry gives his address as "Hon. Research Associate" at the Australian Museum. Note the "Hon" bit! He isn't paid to produce a 43 page scientific paper revising the taxonomy of these bats, despite the obvious importance of such work to a basic inventory of Australian wildlife. Yes, well done Harry, and let's hope we live to see better funding for research which is fundamental to our knowledge of wildlife and how to look after it. Cheers, Chris Corben. (named after a bat, I'm told!) =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Needletails near Brisbane From: "Trevor Ford" <tachuris163 AT bigpond.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 13:14:49 +1000 G'day, Is Mike Tarbuton still out there collecting data on swifts? If so, "Hi Mike" and... Yesterday, Nov 1st 2009, I saw a flock of approximately 500 White-throated Needletails moving south, just east of Brisbane, QLD. I was driving north-east along Lytton Road, just south of the Brisbane River, towards Fisherman Islands, probably a couple of kilometres or so away from the coast to the east at Wynnum. Yes, I did stop the car - the swifts were an impressive sight! Cheers - Trevor. Trevor Ford ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: Rainforest: The Secret of Life From: Syd Curtis <sydc AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:29:10 +1000 Greetings Laurie, Inger Vandyke, Rob Geraghty et al., Immediately the program ended, I phoned my son in Perth, to tell him that it was the best nature program I've seen on TV, and not to miss it. One of my criteria for a good nature program is that it should have a minimum of footage in which humans appear. AND THIS HAD NONE! The more a program has people shown in it, obviously the less nature material there has been available to fill the program. And yes Rob, much of the lyrebird material, if not all, was Glen Threlfo's. (He's mentioned in the credits.) The display performance on the platform of vines was the lyrebird Glen has dubbed "George". I first tape-recorded his voice in 1984, a decade or so before Glen painstakingly persuaded George to tolerate a discrete human observer, and George was still going well last winter, so I'm assured. It probably takes about 7 years for a male Albert's Lyrebird to mature and hold a territory (6 to 8 years for Superbs; nobody knows with Albert's), so George must now be over 30 years old. For anyone who wishes to see more of George (as well as a female, nest and chick), O'Reilly's Guest House in Lamington N. P., sell a really beautiful Albert Lyrebird DVD made from Glen's filming. For me, there was rather too many appearances of carpet snake in the program, but I'm being a bit picky there, I guess. Not really a criticism, but perhaps the makers missed one good opportunity in not giving more prominence to Logrunners. Schodde and Mason in their "Directory of Australian Birds ­ Passerines" (CSIRO Publishing, 1999), when writing about logrunners (in which they include chowchillas) say: "As now understood, they comprise just two living species in one genus endemic to Australia-New Guinea, survivors of an ancient lineage that extends back at least to the mid Miocene of Tertiary times (Boles 1993). The family is thus one of the oldest known among song-birds, its nearest relatives being other members of the Australo-Papuan Corvoidea or Meliphagidae, and these not at all close." So in Logrunners we have a species with perhaps the most ancient lineage of all among songbirds. They nest on the ground. Easily found. Domed nest with side entrance, but when leaving the nest, the female often pauses for a second or so on the platform in front of the opening, before leaving. (Good photo opportunity?) And when foraging in the leaf litter of the rainforest floor, they have the unique practice of propping themselves on their spine-tipped tail-feathers and one leg, while vigorously scratching sideways with the other leg. Inger, please pass on to your friends my congratulations on the best Oz TV program I can remember seeing. Cheers Syd Curtis > From: L&L Knight > Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:32:08 +1000 > To: Birding Aus > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Rainforest: The Secret of Life > > I was very impressed with the wildlife footage in this program, > screened this evening on the ABC - > http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200911/programs/ZY7738A001D2009-11-01T1930 > 00.htm > > It included most of the species present in the rainforests of SEQ's > Scenic Rim, including Alberts Lyrebird, Noisy Pitta, Satin and Regent > Bowerbirds, Logrunners, Ground Thrush, Riflebirds, Catbirds, > Whipbirds, Eastern Yellow Robins, and the Fantails etc. It included > impressive footage of an Alberts performing on his platform and of a > family of Noisy Pittas at their nest. The footage of the snakes was > also impressive. > > Regards, Laurie. ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Report on Black-necked Stalkers twitch results From: "Greg & Val Clancy" <gclancy AT tpg.com.au> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 23:17:16 +1100 The Black-necked Stalkers, a Clarence Valley, north coast NSW, team entered the NSW Twitchathon for the sixth consecutive year this year. The team, which was supported by the Clarence Valley Birdos, comprised Greg Clancy (head stalker), Russell Jago, Bev Morgan and Maureen O'Shea. Gary Eggins was the non-participating scribe. Sue Hawick was our main fundraiser. As usual we had spent the previous twelve months planning how this year would be the year that we excelled. Well it didn't quite go as planned. The start was unbelievable. One minute before the official start a Black Noddy, a species very rare in our area, flew into sight. All team members, including the scribe, had great views but then it flew over the edge of the rock platform and disappeared from view - 30 seconds before the start time. We dipped on it!!! We did start the list though with Eastern Reef Egret which we don't often get on a twitch. Our shorebird site produced well but some important species such as Lesser and Greater Sand Plovers were missing as the tide wasn't high enough. We did well on dusk though with Ground Parrot, Tawny-crowned Honeyeater, Brown Quail and King Quail all calling from the one area. A deep call was not identified. It may have been a bittern but was not the call typical of any of the local species. We ticked off Black-necked Stork, Brolga and Comb-crested Jacana at the local wetlands and one site with artificial ponds provided views of a number of duck and other waterbird species. There were four species that were only seen by one or two team members and therefore could not be counted. They were White-winged Chough, Speckled Warbler, Chestnut-breasted Mannikin and White-headed Pigeon. Our rarest bird was the White-eared Monarch followed closely by the Rufous Scrub-bird. Our final total was 198 species and included the following threatened species: Black-necked Stork, Brolga, Blue-billed Duck, Comb-crested Jacana, Australian Pied Oystercatcher, Sooty Oystercatcher, Eastern Osprey, Little Tern, Ground Parrot, Rufous Scrub-bird, White-eared Monarch, Grey-crowned Babbler, Mangrove Honeyeater and Black-chinned Honeyeater. We know where we didn't perform well and plans have been already drawn up to address the problems (minor though they were) for next year's attempt. We came sixth in the main race and were beaten by only a few birds by the teams that came fourth and fifth. The winning team's total of 247 species is mind boggling though. Congratulations to the winners (and the losers) as it is a great social experience as well as a birding experience. Till next year. Greg Clancy Head Stalker ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: John Tongue <jspk AT iprimus.com.au> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 23:13:25 +1100 Hi Keith and all, I'm sure it's wise not to publicise grid reference to all and sundry for locations of rare and endangered species. I'm also aware that there may be 'fanatical twitchers' out there who do the wrong thing at times. However, I also think comments such as these tend to reinforce some people's prejudices against people who might broadly consider themselves 'twitchers', and can lead to people being reticent about reporting lots of sightings, and thereby limiting the possibility to have their sightings verified by another observer. I can think of a case a couple of years ago where a visiting birder to Tasmania deliberately did not report what he claimed was a Yellow Wagtail on theWest Coast of Tasmania until weeks later, after he'd got home. He said this was because he didn't want all the Twitchers going and disturbing it. Now, I'm not averse to calling myself a 'Twitcher' (among other things), and this birder's tardiness in reporting, because of some pre-conception about 'Twitchers', not only denied me a tick, but also denied anyone's possibility of verifying his sighting of what would be a significant species for Tasmania. This Birder's impression of twitchers may have come from his own bitter experiences, but they may also have arisen from other people's comments, or at least been re-inforced by them. Let's try to be careful about how we label certain groups within the birding fraternity. Cheers, John Tongue Ulverstone, Tas. On 03/11/2009, at 11:28 AM, Keith Brandwood wrote: > Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do > believe that there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for > their collection. Its no different than collecting feathers a > subject that as been discussed recently on this forum. Collecting > feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on the surface but you can > imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the parrot species > except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a person trying > to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to get > the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical > Twitchers get up to at times to understand the need to be alert to > whom you give information to. Thankfully it is only a small minority > that are involved in such behaviour. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Shute" > To: ; > Cc: ; > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: Chris Sanderson <chris.sanderson AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:10:45 +1000 Hi Tim, I believe in the UK a small number of rare birds have died from constant harassment leading to an inability to feed to recover from a long trip. This is possibly what Peter is referring to? Also I hear from various sources of cases where twitchers (usually identity unknown) have been observed by landholders to tresspass to look for birds. This still appears to be a sadly common occurrence, though as you say, its not fair to tar all twitchers with that brush as I know many who wouldn't enter a property without permission. However those that do give all birders, not just twitchers, a bad name with the general public. I will say this though, a recent study by our own Dr Laurie Knight showed that the more fanatical a twitcher is, the less they care about conservation. That's hard data from a fairly broad survey there (I hope I've paraphrased your work correctly there Laurie, feel free to jump in if I'm misquoting). As for earlier questions about collectors, I'd love to hear from someone in the customs department, but I know for a fact they are still finding living animals being smuggled, and I have little doubt that the same would go for dead animals - there are a lot of people for whom collecting skins/specimens is akin to stamp collecting (or pokemon for the younger people out there reading this...gotta catch em all). Look no further than our own official bodies - out there looking to collect one or several of the newly found Spotted Quail-Thrush in Far North QLD before they even know if its a new species or even how many there are in the population... Back to the point at hand. I thought the objection was over GPS co-ordinates being given in an open online forum. A general location in the email with an offer of directions offline would be fine I would think, as suggested by an earlier poster. At least that means someone wanting to break the law has to leave evidence in the form of an email if they want the details. Regards, Chris On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Tim Jones wrote: > > Peter, > > > > What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just > sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm they > do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of something which > has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many > 'fanatical twitches' in my time. > > > > There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most > 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want > future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and > wonderful wildlife. > > > > I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of statement > tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. > > > > NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. > > > > Cheers > > > > Tim > > > > > > From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com > > To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 > > CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; > > > > Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe > that > > there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their collection. Its > no > > different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed > recently > > on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on > the > > surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the > > parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a > person > > trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to get > > the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical Twitchers get > up > > to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give > information > > to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such > > behaviour. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Peter Shute" > > To: ; > > Cc: ; > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > > > > >I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but > would > > >someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? > > > > > > Peter Shute > > > > > > > > > -------------------------- > > > Sent using BlackBerry > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > > > > > > To: Keith Brandwood > > > Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > > > > > > Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 > > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > > > > Keith, > > > > > > I heartily agree. > > > > > > Carl Clifford > > > > > > > > > On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: > > > > > > Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as > > > the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. > > > Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to > > > ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after > > > vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. > > > Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" > > > > > > > > > To: > > > Cc: "David Eldridge" > > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM > > > Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David > > > Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in > > > Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on > > > the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The > > > bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of > > > the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There > > > were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, > > > further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of > > > Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg > > > 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me > > > which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without > > > expecting it at a site was a great suprise. > > > > > > Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, > > > 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. > > > > > > I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may > > > be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between > > > Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > Frank Hemmings > > > Curator > > > John T. Waterhouse Herbarium > > > School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences > > > University of New South Wales > > > UNSW SYDNEY 2052 > > > AUSTRALIA > > > > > > Tel +61 2 9385 3274 > > > Fax +61 2 9385 1558 > > > > > > CRICOS Provider Code:00098G > > > ==========www.birding-aus.org > > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > > send the message: > > > unsubscribe > > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > > ========== > > > =============================== > > > www.birding-aus.org > > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > > > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > > =============================== > > > > > > =============================== > > > www.birding-aus.org > > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > > send the message: > > > unsubscribe > > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > > =============================== > > > > > > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > _________________________________________________________________ > View photos of singles in your area Click Here > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Brush Turkey invasion ?? From: "Richard Johnstone" <rjohnsto AT tpg.com.au> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:57:55 +1100 I don't know how much this adds to the thread, but I remember seeing a Brush Turkey at Kurrajong Heights in the lower Blue Mountains west if Sydney (Warks Rd), in about 1974 or 1975. I visited my relatives there fairly often and only ever saw one. Richard ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: Tim Jones <tim_jones8 AT hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:06:12 +0000 Peter, What do the 'fanatical Twitchers' do? I reckon this is mostly just sensationalised hearsay. I see so much prattle about the terrible harm they do, but I have yet to see a properly substantiated report of something which has had any serious effect on wildlife and I've been on many, many 'fanatical twitches' in my time. There are a few people who go a bit too far in their pursuit, but most 'fanatical twitchers' are also fanatical conservationists and also want future generations to share their joy of seeing wonderful places and wonderful wildlife. I just wish people would get things in proportion. This kind of statement tars us all with the same brush and just gets us all a bad name. NB I'm not arguing about the need to be judicious with information. Cheers Tim > From: kbrandwood AT bigpond.com > To: pshute AT nuw.org.au; carlsclifford AT gmail.com > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:28:29 +1100 > CC: d.eldridge AT unsw.edu.au; > > Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe that > there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their collection. Its no > different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed recently > on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on the > surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the > parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a person > trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to get > the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical Twitchers get up > to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give information > to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such > behaviour. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Shute" > To: ; > Cc: ; > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > >I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but would > >someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? > > > > Peter Shute > > > > > > -------------------------- > > Sent using BlackBerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > > > > To: Keith Brandwood > > Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > > > > Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > > Keith, > > > > I heartily agree. > > > > Carl Clifford > > > > > > On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: > > > > Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as > > the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. > > Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to > > ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after > > vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. > > Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" > > > > > > To: > > Cc: "David Eldridge" > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM > > Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David > > Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in > > Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on > > the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The > > bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of > > the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There > > were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, > > further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of > > Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg > > 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me > > which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without > > expecting it at a site was a great suprise. > > > > Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, > > 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. > > > > I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may > > be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between > > Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, > > > > Frank > > > > Frank Hemmings > > Curator > > John T. Waterhouse Herbarium > > School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences > > University of New South Wales > > UNSW SYDNEY 2052 > > AUSTRALIA > > > > Tel +61 2 9385 3274 > > Fax +61 2 9385 1558 > > > > CRICOS Provider Code:00098G > > ==========www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > ========== > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== _________________________________________________________________ View photos of singles in your area Click Here http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Bob Green" <shriketit AT bigpond.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:55:12 +1030 I remember some years ago hearing about a group of boys being caught by the local Parks and Wildlife people with dead birds they had "collected", they were for someones bird feet collection! Hard to imagine but true. Bob Green ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Carpentarian Grasswrens From: <Graham.Harrington AT csiro.au> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 18:07:02 +1100 CARPENTARIAN GRASSWRENs. I am working on a case for giving this species a category under the threatened species legislation in both Queensland and nationally. I would be interested to hear of any records of Carpies in the vicinity of Hells Gate roadhouse west to the NT border. Also any recent records in the vicinity of Lawn Hill (now Boodjamulla) National Park. Dates and locations as accurately as possible please but any rumours will be of interest. All information will be acknowledged. Contact graham.harrington AT csiro.au. ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: RE: Marvellous display From: inger vandyke <ingervandyke AT hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:18:21 +0000 Oh my god, I am totally impressed! Inger Vandyke Natural History Writer and Photographer Assistant Publicity Officer - Southern Oceans Seabird Study Association (SOSSA) Mob: 0402 286 437 www.ingervandyke.com > From: amcbride1 AT me.com > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:07:14 +0100 > To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Marvellous display > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8338000/8338728.stm > > Awesome stuff here;-) > > Alan > > > ******************************************************************************* > Alan McBride, MBO. > > Photojournalist | Traveller | Writer | Birding Guide + > Member: International Travel Writers & Photographers Alliance > American Writers & Artists Inc. > Travelwriters . com > > http://web.me.com/amcbride1 > http://www.worldreviewer.com/member/alanmcbride/ > http://www.linkedin.com/in/alanmcbride > http://www.twitter.com/alanmcbride > > Good planets are hard to find; until we do, please, be green and read > from the screen > > Tel: + 61 419 414 860 > Fax: + 61 2 9973 2306 > Skype: mcbird101 > > P O Box 190 | Newport Beach | NSW 2106 | Australia > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it, are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they > are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify > the sender. This e-mail is also subject to copyright. No part of it > should be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the prior written > consent of the copyright owner. > > *********************************************************************************** > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== _________________________________________________________________ Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area! http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Marvellous display From: Alan McBride <amcbride1 AT me.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:07:14 +0100 http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8338000/8338728.stm Awesome stuff here;-) Alan ******************************************************************************* Alan McBride, MBO. Photojournalist | Traveller | Writer | Birding Guide + Member: International Travel Writers & Photographers Alliance American Writers & Artists Inc. Travelwriters . com http://web.me.com/amcbride1 http://www.worldreviewer.com/member/alanmcbride/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/alanmcbride http://www.twitter.com/alanmcbride Good planets are hard to find; until we do, please, be green and read from the screen Tel: + 61 419 414 860 Fax: + 61 2 9973 2306 Skype: mcbird101 P O Box 190 | Newport Beach | NSW 2106 | Australia This e-mail and any files transmitted with it, are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. This e-mail is also subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the prior written consent of the copyright owner. *********************************************************************************** =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Keith Brandwood" <kbrandwood AT bigpond.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 18:45:11 +1100 Hi David, I agree with you that it is very important to know the whereabouts and status of threatened species ect. but surely that dose not mean you have to broadcast the coordinates to every man and his dog.A much better result can be arrived at by educating the observers/birdwatchers to report such sightings directly to the relevant organization. This will at least minimize any threats that may occur from unscrupulous people. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Probets" To: Cc: "David Geering" Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 11:59 AM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > David Geering has asked me to post the following response to this thread > as he is not currently on Birding-Aus: > > I see no issues with posting the coordinates of species such as this. The > NSW Dept of Environment, Climate Change & Water has a policy that > coordinates for certain sensitive species are not to be released. These > include species of high biological significance, for which no records will > be provided at all; species considered to be at serious risk from threats > such as disturbance or exploitation; species considered to be at medium to > high risk of threats such as disturbance or exploitation. > > Surely, people knowing the whereabouts of a snipe or Brolga are hardly > going to open the floodgates on illegal collecting. Does anyone know of > any such illegal activities? Perhaps they should raise these concerns > with their state wildlife agency. > > What I think is a more serious issue is birdwatchers NOT reporting > threatened species to their relevant state wildlife agencies. I > repeatedly do searches of the DECCW Wildlife Atlas for areas where major > developments are proposed to find that there are few records of threatened > species that can be used to guide the department's response to > development. By reporting these threatened species birdwatchers would > actively be doing something positive for bird conservation. > > David Geering > Threatened Species Officer > Biodiversity Conservation Unit, North-west Branch > Department of Environment, Climate Change & Water > P.O. Box 2111 > Dubbo NSW 2830 > > > > > At 4:38 PM +1100 2/11/09, Keith Brandwood wrote: >>Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as the >>Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. Please lets >>stop this practice from today.All that is required is to ask them to >>contact you if they want to see the species, then after vetting them you >>can decide on whether you want to tell them. Collecting rare wildlife can >>assure you is still alive and kicking. > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben From: Tom Tarrant <aviceda AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:52:02 +1000 Congratulations Chris, Though if I remember correctly it's not the first species that you've had named after you! Tom -- ******************************** Tom Tarrant Kobble Creek, Qld http://kobble.aviceda.org http://picasaweb.google.com.au/aviceda/ ******************************** =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben From: Peter Ewin <sittella AT hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:38:39 +1100 Peter - was there any irony intended in that Long-eared Bats are one of the genera that species generally can't be separated using anabat detection? Sorry couldn't resist - congratulations to Chris and thankfully bat taxonomy is (slowly) being sorted out - now when will the Threatened Species Schedules change to reflect this name? Cheers, Peter > From: pmenk AT bigpond.net.au > To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:27:00 +1100 > Subject: [Birding-Aus] fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben > > regular followers of birding-aus will have been impressed with the knowledgeable and constructive contributions from Chris Corben, particularly in helping people understand the complexities of plumage condition and moult, and their impact on bird identification. Perhaps many birding-aus members are not aware that birding is only one of Chris' many talents. In particular he has made an enormous contribution to the study of bats by developing and refining a device to automatically record and identify bat echolocation calls - the Anabat bat detector. This device is now a standard wildlife survey tool in Australia and elsewhere. > > Chris' contribution to bat study has now been formally recognised by the naming of a new species long-eared bat Nyctophilus corbeni (formerly the south-eastern Australian form of the Greater Long-eared Bat N. timoriensis). In his taxonomic review published in the latest Australian Zoologist, Harry Parnaby has this to say about the etymology of the name: > 'named in honour of Christopher John Corben, bat researcher, frog expert, ornithologist and technophile, in recognition his contribution to Australian zoology from his largely unfunded pioneering development and ceaseless refinement of technology and software for the detection, storage and analysis of bat echolocation calls which has revolutionised bat research and inventory in Australia and on other continents.' > > Congratulation Chris, and well done Harry! > > Peter Menkhorst > ==========www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > ========== _________________________________________________________________ Need a place to rent, buy or share? Let us find your next place for you! http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: fitting acknowledgement for Chris Corben From: "Peter Menkhorst" <pmenk AT bigpond.net.au> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:27:00 +1100 regular followers of birding-aus will have been impressed with the knowledgeable and constructive contributions from Chris Corben, particularly in helping people understand the complexities of plumage condition and moult, and their impact on bird identification. Perhaps many birding-aus members are not aware that birding is only one of Chris' many talents. In particular he has made an enormous contribution to the study of bats by developing and refining a device to automatically record and identify bat echolocation calls - the Anabat bat detector. This device is now a standard wildlife survey tool in Australia and elsewhere. Chris' contribution to bat study has now been formally recognised by the naming of a new species long-eared bat Nyctophilus corbeni (formerly the south-eastern Australian form of the Greater Long-eared Bat N. timoriensis). In his taxonomic review published in the latest Australian Zoologist, Harry Parnaby has this to say about the etymology of the name: 'named in honour of Christopher John Corben, bat researcher, frog expert, ornithologist and technophile, in recognition his contribution to Australian zoology from his largely unfunded pioneering development and ceaseless refinement of technology and software for the detection, storage and analysis of bat echolocation calls which has revolutionised bat research and inventory in Australia and on other continents.' Congratulation Chris, and well done Harry! Peter Menkhorst ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo From: "Colin R" <jangles AT fastmail.fm> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:20:01 +1000 Hi Without wanting to start a flame war or appearing overly disbelieving - is there any evidence of the type of behaviour you're describing - here or anywhere else? i.e people shooting birds for a feather collection or collecting specimens such as Painted Snipe for a 'collection'? Egg collecting is one thing - for a lot of birders that was their first introduction to birds and birding... but shooting and 'collecting'? Does that actually happen? Colin Brisbane On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:28 +1100, "Keith Brandwood" wrote: > Hi Peter, my main concern was the Painted Snipe, and yes I do believe > that > there are people who would take a Painted Snipe for their collection. Its > no > different than collecting feathers a subject that as been discussed > recently > on this forum. Collecting feathers appears to be a harmless pastime on > the > surface but you can imagine someone who as all the feathers of all the > parrot species except for the Night Parrot. I could easily see such a > person > trying to find out where to find one and going out and shooting it to get > the feather.You only have to see what some of the fanatical Twitchers get > up > to at times to understand the need to be alert to whom you give > information > to. Thankfully it is only a small minority that are involved in such > behaviour. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Shute" > To: ; > Cc: ; > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:49 PM > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > >I know this is true for birds on the nest, (especially parrots?) but would > >someone really collect a Painted Snipe or a Brolga? > > > > Peter Shute > > > > > > -------------------------- > > Sent using BlackBerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > > > > To: Keith Brandwood > > Cc: David Eldridge ; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > > > > Sent: Mon Nov 02 17:45:54 2009 > > Subject: Re: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > > Keith, > > > > I heartily agree. > > > > Carl Clifford > > > > > > On 02/11/2009, at 4:38 PM, Keith Brandwood wrote: > > > > Why are we still giving out coordinates for endangered species such as > > the Painted Snipe or any other endangered species on this forum. > > Please lets stop this practice from today.All that is required is to > > ask them to contact you if they want to see the species, then after > > vetting them you can decide on whether you want to tell them. > > Collecting rare wildlife can assure you is still alive and kicking. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Hemmings" > > > > > > To: > > Cc: "David Eldridge" > > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:41 AM > > Subject: [SPAM] [Birding-Aus] Australian Painted Snipe in Dubbo > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > As part of our twitchathon effort, the Bumbling Bee-eaters (David > > Eldridge, David Hair and myself) saw an Australian Painted Snipe in > > Dubbo on Saturday afternoon; this was in the first 10 birds seen on > > the trip and congratulations to Dave Eldridge for spotting it. The > > bird, a female, was sitting low in a small pond off Fitzroy St, N of > > the itnersection with River St & off the E side of the road. There > > were 2 small ponds, and it was sitting on the edge of the smaller, > > further pond; it turns out that this is actually closer to the end of > > Dowton Drive off River St. Grid coordinates from Google Earth 32deg > > 13min 54.1sec S, 148deg 37min, 3.6sec E. This was a lifer for me > > which I hadn't expected on this trip, and to see this bird without > > expecting it at a site was a great suprise. > > > > Also of note were 2 Brolgas on a tank seen from Coolbaggie Forest Rd, > > 4km from Eumungerie at 31deg 57min 43 sec S, 148deg 39min 32sec E. > > > > I'm not sure if either of these are still there but I'm sure some may > > be interested in finding them. All up we recorded 185 species between > > Dubbo and Newcastle - not bad for a first time run. Cheers, > > > > Frank > > > > Frank Hemmings > > Curator > > John T. Waterhouse Herbarium > > School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences > > University of New South Wales > > UNSW SYDNEY 2052 > > AUSTRALIA > > > > Tel +61 2 9385 3274 > > Fax +61 2 9385 1558 > > > > CRICOS Provider Code:00098G > > ==========www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > ========== > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== -- Colin Reid jangles AT fastmail.fm So many birds, so little time...... -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Brush Turkey invasion ?? From: "Stephen Ambrose" <stephen AT ambecol.com.au> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:53:39 +1100 Paul makes an interesting point about potential competition between the Australian Brush-turkey and Superb Lyrebird in areas of geographical overlap. It appears to me that the spread of Lantana in bushland is assisting the brush-turkey to colonise new areas around the greater Sydney area. The Lantana provides the Brush-turkeys with shade and visual screening from conspecifics, as well as food. On the other hand, Superb Lyrebirds favour open forest floors, in forests with relatively dense understoreys. Invasion of lyrebird habitat areas by Lantana would make them less suitable for Superb Lyrebirds but potentially more suitable for Australian Brush-turkeys. So I think Paul's concern about the potential of brush-turkeys displacing lyrebirds in some forest/urban interface areas is a real one. Stephen Ambrose Ryde, NSW -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Paul Burcher Sent: Tuesday, 3 November 2009 8:51 AM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Brush Turkey invasion ?? Andrew I thought Pied Currawongs were hosts for CBCs and over the decades Pied Currawongs have flourished around Sydney at the expense of smaller birds such as wrens. So CBCs could be a good thing despite them sounding like someone dry wretching at 4:30am. In relation to Brush Turkeys they maybe re-establishing distribution but they are expanding territory. I guess that originally they would have been in deep gullies or riversides that had rainforest or wet sclerophyll forest - now they are on ridgetop suburbs (such as where I live Cowan, just south of the Hawkesbury) due to the food availability. Could their expansion/re-establishment be at the cost of Superb Lyrebirds? I know what I would rather have in my backyard! Paul Burcher Andrew Taylor wrote: > I'm not sure anyone posted a link to yesterday's Herald story: > http://www.smh.com.au/environment/first-it-was-the-march-of-the-cane-toad-x2 026-now-the-brush-turkey-is-eating-sydney-20091101-hrku.html > > The reporter unfortunately has jumbled some details - koels and > Channel-billed Cuckoos are unlikely to displace small birds. > By parasitizing wattlebirds & currawongs respectively they might > even assist smaller birds. > > An alternative explanation for koels & CBCs increase in Sydney abundance > (mentioned in the above article) is diet, as other frugivores like > White-headed Pigeon & Figbird have also been expanding south. But maybe > it host availability. One koel host - Magpie-lark was formerly much > more abundant in Sydney - but Figbirds & wattlebirds are certainly more > abundant now. Not sure if CBCs have more hosts available now. > > Andrew > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Brush Turkey invasion From: brian fleming <flambeau AT labyrinth.net.au> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:54:48 +1100 Tom Tarrant wrote: > Hi Jill, > > Recently we caught a guy 're-settling' 20+ Brush-turkeys on our patch > (Samsonvale > Cemetery ) approx 40 kms NW of Brisbane. > Apparently he was fed up with them rearranging his urban veggie-patch. We > were wondering why were seeing so many! > Turns out that inner-city residents of Brisbane are doing the same, moving > them to the outer-suburbs. > > Perhaps we are witnessing a new form of animal migration? > > Tom There is a story of someone on the north side of the Yarra (Melbourne) who caught marauding possums, and used to row sacks full across the river at dead of night. Until he found someone going the other way! Brian Fleming Melbourne =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Brush Turkey invasion ?? From: Paul Burcher <pburcher AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:50:34 +1100 Andrew I thought Pied Currawongs were hosts for CBCs and over the decades Pied Currawongs have flourished around Sydney at the expense of smaller birds such as wrens. So CBCs could be a good thing despite them sounding like someone dry wretching at 4:30am. In relation to Brush Turkeys they maybe re-establishing distribution but they are expanding territory. I guess that originally they would have been in deep gullies or riversides that had rainforest or wet sclerophyll forest - now they are on ridgetop suburbs (such as where I live Cowan, just south of the Hawkesbury) due to the food availability. Could their expansion/re-establishment be at the cost of Superb Lyrebirds? I know what I would rather have in my backyard! Paul Burcher Andrew Taylor wrote: > I'm not sure anyone posted a link to yesterday's Herald story: > http://www.smh.com.au/environment/first-it-was-the-march-of-the-cane-toad-x2026-now-the-brush-turkey-is-eating-sydney-20091101-hrku.html > > The reporter unfortunately has jumbled some details - koels and > Channel-billed Cuckoos are unlikely to displace small birds. > By parasitizing wattlebirds & currawongs respectively they might > even assist smaller birds. > > An alternative explanation for koels & CBCs increase in Sydney abundance > (mentioned in the above article) is diet, as other frugivores like > White-headed Pigeon & Figbird have also been expanding south. But maybe > it host availability. One koel host - Magpie-lark was formerly much > more abundant in Sydney - but Figbirds & wattlebirds are certainly more > abundant now. Not sure if CBCs have more hosts available now. > > Andrew > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ===============================