Birdingonthe.Net Recent Postings from The Australia Birding List > Home > Mail > Alerts Updated on Friday, November 20 at 04:47 PM ET The most recently received Mail is at the top.	Three-toed Woodpecker,©Barry Kent Mackay

21 Nov RE: Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 ["Tania Ireton" ] 21 Nov Re: Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 ["Shirley Cook" ] 21 Nov Re: Whimbrel @ Long Reef this am. ["Mark and Mandy Young" ] 21 Nov Re: Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 [Dave Torr ] 20 Nov Re: Anyone want Red Junglefowl for their Victorian list? [Michael Todd ] 20 Nov On vernacular bird names ["Chris Healey" ] 20 Nov Papasula Jack's 2009 Ashmore report ["Bill Moorhead" ] 20 Nov Round Hill/Nombinnie Trip Report 15-18 Nov 2009 - PART 2 [David Stowe ] 20 Nov Noisy Pitta in Blue Mountains NSW [Carol Probets ] 20 Nov RE: Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 ["Julian Bielewicz" ] 20 Nov lutinistic Brown Honeyeater ["Julian Bielewicz" ] 20 Nov The anomymous currawong... ["Cas and Lisa Liber" ] 20 Nov Jabiru - similar issue with conure ["Cas and Lisa Liber" ] 20 Nov Re: Scarlet Honeyeater irruption? [Carol Probets ] 20 Nov RE: Live Lens ["Stewart Ford" ] 20 Nov RE: Live Lens [] 20 Nov Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 [Dave Torr ] 20 Nov Re: Live Lens [Peter Shute ] 20 Nov RE: Live Lens ["Jeff Davies" ] 20 Nov Re: Live Lens [Carl Clifford ] 20 Nov Re: Anyone want Red Junglefowl for their Victorian list? [Carl Clifford ] 20 Nov Re: Live Lens [] 20 Nov RE: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 [Fiona Anderson ] 20 Nov Re: Live Lens [Alistair McKeough ] 20 Nov Live Lens ["Bill Moorhead" ] 20 Nov Re: Anyone want Red Junglefowl for their Victorian list? [John Tongue ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Peter Shute ] 20 Nov Anyone want Red Junglefowl for their Victorian list? [Steve ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome ["Ross Macfarlane" ] 20 Nov Bluef-aced Parrot-Finches ["Alan Gillanders" ] 20 Nov Slater - some more comments [Dave Torr ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Carl Clifford ] 20 Nov Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 [Dave Torr ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome ["Alan Gillanders" ] 20 Nov Re: Re 'English Australian bird names' ["Shirley Cook" ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Carl Clifford ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome ["Alan Gillanders" ] 20 Nov SEQ needletails ["Trevor Ford" ] 19 Nov Re: Re 'English Australian bird names' [Katrina Knight ] 20 Nov Re: Re 'Jabiru' [Chris Ross ] 20 Nov Re: Re 'English Australian bird names' [Carl Clifford ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Carl Clifford ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Michael Tarburton ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Denise Goodfellow ] 20 Nov Re: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [] 20 Nov RE: Re 'Jabiru' ["Tony Russell" ] 20 Nov RE: Re 'Jabiru' ["Tony Russell" ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Michael Tarburton ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [] 20 Nov Fw: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Denise Goodfellow ] 20 Nov Jabiru just isn't ours to take ["Anthony Molyneux" ] 20 Nov RE: Re 'Jabiru' [Peter Shute ] 20 Nov Finches: maybe in need of a common name [Alan McBride ] 19 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Nikolas Haass ] 20 Nov Re 'Jabiru' [Chris Ross ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Alistair McKeough ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Denise Goodfellow ] 19 Nov New name for koels [Michael Atzeni ] 19 Nov Re: Re 'English Australian bird names' [Nikolas Haass ] 19 Nov FW: Visiting birdwatchers ["BA Vic Group" ] 20 Nov Top day in the Upper Hunter [Phil Hansbro ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [L&L Knight ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome ["Greg & Val Clancy" ] 20 Nov Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome [Carl Clifford ] 20 Nov Re: More of this Twitter nonsense [Carl Clifford ] 20 Nov Re: Re 'Jabiru' [Paul Taylor ] 19 Nov Re: Re 'Jabiru' [Carl Clifford ] 19 Nov More of this Twitter nonsense ["Sean Dooley" ] 19 Nov RE: Re 'Jabiru' ["Tony Russell" ] 19 Nov Round Hill/Nombinnie Trip Report 15-18 Nov 2009 - PART 1 [David Stowe ] 19 Nov Re: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome ["Greg & Val Clancy" ] 19 Nov Re: Indigenous names for the Jabiru / BNS [L&L Knight ] 19 Nov Needle Tails ["John Allsop" ] 19 Nov Re: Shearwater wreck East coast Tasmania [Ian May ] 19 Nov RE: Field guide to Thailand and Vietnam [robert morris ] Subject: RE: Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 From: "Tania Ireton" <taniai AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:46:58 +1100 My copy arrived a week ago Friday, so it looks like it is still 50:50. Regards, Tania -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Dave Torr Sent: Saturday, 21 November 2009 7:46 AM To: Shirley Cook Cc: birding-aus Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 Running 50:50 at the moment. I emailed them and mine has not been dispatched yet. I thought I was a subscriber but apparently not which is why mine has not been processed. 2009/11/21 Shirley Cook > Haven't received mine yet... > > Shirley Cook > Secretary/Treasurer > Birds Australia (Northern NSW) > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Torr" > To: "birding-aus" > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:40 PM > > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 > > > Thanks for the responses - 5 people have them, two people (plus me!) have >> yet to get theirs. >> >> 2009/11/20 Dave Torr >> >> Has anyone received their copy of this yet? It was supposed to be out in >>> Oct so I had hoped to get mine by now >>> Thanks >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.74/2515 - Release Date: 11/20/09 > 08:02:00 > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/20/09 08:02:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/20/09 08:02:00 =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 From: "Shirley Cook" <shirleycook1 AT bigpond.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:35:11 +1100 Haven't received mine yet... Shirley Cook Secretary/Treasurer Birds Australia (Northern NSW) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Torr" To: "birding-aus" Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:40 PM Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 > Thanks for the responses - 5 people have them, two people (plus me!) have > yet to get theirs. > > 2009/11/20 Dave Torr > >> Has anyone received their copy of this yet? It was supposed to be out in >> Oct so I had hoped to get mine by now >> Thanks >> >> Dave >> > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.74/2515 - Release Date: 11/20/09 08:02:00 =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Whimbrel @ Long Reef this am. From: "Mark and Mandy Young" <mandmyoung AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:15:58 +1100 G'day everyone, It's been a great week at Long Reef this week. It started with a Latham's Snipe on the golf course on Monday, and now a Whimbrel feeding on the northern platform this morning. Best bet would be to head there AT low tide this afternoon. I'll be going back there to see if it's still around. I've uploaded a couple of photos in case anyone is interested. http://tinyurl.com/yan7cvo http://tinyurl.com/yaejtt6 Also seen this morning of interest was a single Red Knot feeding amongst a small group of Ruddy Turnstones and Red-necked Stints. Regards, Mark =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 From: Dave Torr <davidtorr AT gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:45:40 +1100 Running 50:50 at the moment. I emailed them and mine has not been dispatched yet. I thought I was a subscriber but apparently not which is why mine has not been processed. 2009/11/21 Shirley Cook > Haven't received mine yet... > > Shirley Cook > Secretary/Treasurer > Birds Australia (Northern NSW) > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Torr" > To: "birding-aus" > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:40 PM > > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 > > > Thanks for the responses - 5 people have them, two people (plus me!) have >> yet to get theirs. >> >> 2009/11/20 Dave Torr >> >> Has anyone received their copy of this yet? It was supposed to be out in >>> Oct so I had hoped to get mine by now >>> Thanks >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.74/2515 - Release Date: 11/20/09 > 08:02:00 > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Anyone want Red Junglefowl for their Victorian list? From: Michael Todd <michaeltodd AT activ8.net.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:58:42 +1100 Feral chooks! Interesting that you should say this. I know of two locations near where I live (Molewsorth, 30 km west of Hobart, Tasmania) where there are little families of chooks (mostly roosters admittedly- I haven't seen chicks yet). I see them in the bush on the roadside as I drive past. They've obviously been dumped but they are surviving quite well and have been there for at least 5 months. Of course, we don't have many foxes in Tassie so there is one predator that is absent. I'll be interested to see how long they survive for. I've only seen the one chook roadkill so far. Other local news is that we have been getting Blue-winged Parrots regularly in the last week or two. I'm hoping they hang around. Also Satin Flycatchers have arrived although they may have just passed through. Cheers Mick John Tongue wrote: > Red Junglefowl, or 'Foghorn Leghorn'? > > John Tongue > Ulverstone, Tas. > > > On 20/11/2009, at 3:53 PM, Steve wrote: > > >> G'day all >> >> I called into the Trawalla State Forest (a few km east of Beaufort in western Victoria) to check if Satin Flycatchers had returned (they had and I saw several at close quarters). A large, moving object caught my eye at one point and walking towards me through the box forest was a Red Junglefowl. This was a resplendent male with white and cream plumage and magnificent red comb and wattles. It eventually wandered right up to me in response to my 'chook chook' calls. When I walked away it gave a crow and proceeded to forage in the forest. I suspect you would have to be quick to twitch it - no doubt it will be a meal for a fox in no time. >> >> Cheers >> Steve >> >> Website: http://members.datafast.net.au/clarkja/swvicbirds/ >> Twitter: AT Steve_Clark >> >> >> >> ==============================www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> ============================== >> > > ============================www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > ============================ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2514 - Release Date: 11/20/09 06:42:00 > > -- Michael Todd PhD Candidate- Tasmanian Masked Owl School of Zoology, University of Tasmania, Private Bag 05, Hobart, Tasmania 7001 Mobile: O458 394676 FAX: (03) 6226 2745 Wildlifing (www.wildlifing.smugmug.com) =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: On vernacular bird names From: "Chris Healey" <egboc AT wideband.net.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:13:09 +1100 I have been following the string on English and other vernacular bird names with interest. As an anthropologist I combine my interest in birds with the study of ethno-ornithology -- broadly, the knowledge and use of birds in cultural contexts, (mainly in PNG and Indonesia). Like others in the lively debate over the use of Jabiru as an 'English' name, I delight in the many evocative names given to our birds in Indigenous languages and by earlier European country folk. I like to call these 'folk names', and they are a precious part of Aussie multi-ethnic cultural heritage, but sadly, fast dying out. As birding became a global undertaking standardized English language names became useful in ensuring we used a commonly understood vocabulary. There's a danger of taking 'proper' English names for things too far, bestowing on birds around the world in defiance of more regional naming conventions. As Denise Goodfellow points out, the scientific names are intended to serve as the proper names for things, a convention that is internationally accepted by scientists regardless of language and location (and notwithstanding the uncertainties of scientific nomenclature as pointed out by Nicholas Haas). Sure, let us settle on acceptable, widely shared vernacular names for birds, since it's too much to hope that birders can manage the binomial Latinised names of science that are supposed to be universally applicable. But let's not lose all those wonderful folksy names, simply because they are inaccurate, obscure or not widely known. That is part of the insidious global process of language loss, which applies not just to Indigenous languages, but to local variants of lingua franca like English. I've seen a similar process in parts of eastern Indonesia, where parents actively encourage their children to speak the Indonesian language in preference to local tribal languages. As a consequence, indigenous bird names, and much of the local knowledge encoded in rich language traditions are being lost. Which brings me to the point that there is potential confusion between 'proper' English names for Aussie birds, favoured by the birding fraternity, and the 'folk' names for birds used by 'ordinary' people (i.e., the non-enthusiastic birder). The Recommended English Names of Birds Australia and like organisations are intended as a sort of international list of approved bird names; as a more linguistically manageable alternative to scientific names (which are supposed to follow an international convention). Vernacular or folk names, on the other hand, are an integral element of 'ethno-ornithological knowledge'. As such, they are intrinsically part of local knowledge systems - which is one of the reasons that they can be so confusing. One person's 'Leatherhead' may be used in reference to _Philemon corniculatus_, another's in reference to _Coracina novaehollandiae_ , and Tom Tit may apply to any number of small brown birds. Aussie birding heritage would be diminished if all reference to Blue Jay, Blue Crane, Biddy-quock, Cranky Fan and Jabiru fell out of the lexicon. I am also intrigued that so few Aboriginal names for birds have made their way into commonly used English names, but suspect that they may have been more widely used by early European settlers, many of whose local names have also fallen into disuse. J.D. Macdonald in 1987 brought many obscure names together in his Illustrated Dictionary of Australian Birds by Common Name (Reed Books). Sadly, many of the colourful folk names are listed as 'source not known'. Who used them, where and when? Similarly, the commendable listing in HANZAB of Aboriginal names for birds is of limited use as it fails to indicate the languages and locations for the names. Names that are not locally grounded are disconnected from their cultural context. Since moving to East Gippsland some years ago I have been collecting folk names for birds from local people. I am saddened to discover how little of earlier naming practices are remembered. I suspect birding enthusiasts are particularly prone to discard old folk names in favour of 'standard' or 'proper' names. It's part of the world wide loss of linguistic diversity. I'd welcome correspondence (on or off this list) concerning folk names for birds in Australia, especially in the settled parts of the Southeast. Chris ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Chris Healey (Visiting Fellow, Resource Management in Asia Pacific Program, ANU) 110 Bellbird Rd, Granite Rock, via Bairnsdale, Vic 3875 =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Papasula Jack's 2009 Ashmore report From: "Bill Moorhead" <multilow AT bigpond.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:39:21 +1000 Jack's latest report, 'Papasula' ,(named after the 2 sightings of Abbott's Boobies on the trip) can be read on Simon's Wildairies web site at http://aussiebirding.wildiaries.com/trips/210 A pretty good, day to day account of the fantastic Ashmore Reef trip recently. Enjoy, Bill =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Round Hill/Nombinnie Trip Report 15-18 Nov 2009 - PART 2 From: David Stowe <davidstowe AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:39:26 +1100 Nombinne etc PART 2 Tuesday 17th was not as hot as the previous couple of days with a slight southerly breeze rather than the hot westerly although the forecast was still for 39 degrees. We set out from Lake Cargelligo earlier than the previous day to make the most of the cool hours. In fact we even wore light jumpers for a short time! We essentially repeated the steps from the day before with a concerted focus on Red-lored Whistler which we were destined not to see unfortunately. We expected to see more bird activity due to the 'milder' day however the mallee was much quieter with alot fewer birds around which we found interesting. Although a highlight was a male Brown Goshawk who flew into a tree right above Grant and stayed put for a couple of minutes allowing great views and photos. The previous day we came across a number of birds in the shade of bushes right on the edge of the track. At one spot along the railway line we even saw 5 species all huddled up high in a tiny bit of shade under a raptor nest. After much discussion we wondered if they were all seeking the added coolness of the wind (even though hot) that would have been better on the edge of the road rather than deep in the mallee with less airflow. Then perhaps the birds all went back to their normal patches when the weather cooled a bit.?? The Gilbert's Whistler was nowhere to be seen either and all in all it was a bit depressing after our previous success. After alot of whistler searching we headed west to the paddock of flowering Eremophila hoping for more honeyeaters. A great spot with Splendid fairy-wrens showng well with Chestnut-rumped thornbills but the honeyeaters were the same as monday - Grey-fronted, Spiny-cheeked. A Crested Bellbird was heard in the distance and we had brief views of Chestnut Quail-thrush again which was nice. In the end we made our way back to our cabin stopping at the water trough we had found. We only saw one bird come in which was a Yellow- fronted Honeyeater which was great to see - the only one of the trip, plus a Speckled Warbler. After another siesta we set out but coudn't face the drive back out to Nombinnie and the threat of another fruitless search for red-lored so we stayed around town and headed to the Lake. Large numbers of Whiskered Terns and 12 Banded Lapwings among other birds had been present below the launching ramp on Sunday when we arrived but they weren't to be found here today. In the distance we could see large numbers of Pelicans and other birds further around so we drove out to Dead Man's Point. Here were the terns both roosting and feeding in stunning breeding plumage. Grant even found a non-breeding White- winged Black Tern whilst checking photos on the back of the camera! Another highlight here was a large flock of red-necked Avocets close to the edge of the lake. We then headed out to "Our Chat Alley" which is not the usual spot but the first road to the right after the airport where Grant and Nick had seen chats on previous visits. We weren't disappointed with great views of male and female Orange Chats! plus White-winged wrens, Brown Songlark. We ended the day watching an airforce Hercules repeatedly coming in to the runway amidst big clouds of dust and pulling up, circling and having another go. It must have done it 10 times so we sat ourselves on the mound at the end of the runway and photographed it coming in and passing right over us as it pulled up! The rush was awesome!! Then it was back to the cabin to cool down and download another large number of gigabytes worth of photos onto the laptop! Wednesday was our last morning and we spent a great couple of hours at the STW in the morning sunlight. what a great spot this is with great views of Bailon's and Spotted Crakes, Latham's Snipe, Glossy Ibis, red- kneed Dotterel, Blue-bonnets, Cockatiel, Shelduck, Little Friarbird and others. We heard and then saw a group of Major Mitchells in the distance which were the only ones for the trip but helped make it a memorable parrot trip! We then reluctantly headed for home although we made frequent stops for interesting birds - awesome views of a Wedgie which circled close to the car, more WW wrens, but no sign of any Ground Cuckoo-Shrikes which I was hoping for :( Our next targetted stop was Gum Swamp at Forbes in the hope of Freckled Duck. It was the middle of the day and quite hot with terrible light for photography but we had sightings of Baillon's Crake, Sea-eagle with nestling, hundreds of Pink-eared Duck and Grey Teal, and then 2 Freckled Duck picked up in the scope! Hooray! Another year tick for us all taking Grant to 450 odd for the year. From then it was straight home without any more interruption or excitement. But what a great 4 days! Our trip list was over 140 species with 3 ticks for Nick & Grant and 4 for me plus heaps of photos that we were happy with. Some great birds and countryside plus we weren't at work! Doesn't get any better than that I don't reckon. Cheers, David Stowe PS - I'll hopefully soon put a Visual trip Report up on my pbase site so stay tuned for photos. =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Noisy Pitta in Blue Mountains NSW From: Carol Probets <origma AT westnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:23:54 +1100 Hi all, I've been told of a Noisy Pitta seen along Glenbrook Creek, near Springwood NSW. The woman who saw it is a regular bushwalker and gave me a good description of the bird, which she had identified using Pizzey & Knight. It was seen on Tuesday, a short distance downstream from the junction of Sassafras Creek and Glenbrook Creek. I searched for it for several hours yesterday with no luck, but there's a lot of rainforest habitat that it could have disappeared into. This is the first record of Noisy Pitta in the Blue Mountains. However considering the occasional records in the Sydney region, not completely unexpected. Sorry for the slight delay in reporting this but I've been flat out or not near a computer. If anyone wants to search for it please contact me for detailed directions. Cheers, Carol Carol Probets Katoomba NSW http://www.bmbirding.com.au =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 From: "Julian Bielewicz" <osprey AT bordernet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:49:55 +1000 Greetings Dave et all Make that three of us that don't. And I "signed up" to have mine sent automatically following delays with Vol 13! Cheers Julian -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Dave Torr Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 4:41 PM To: birding-aus Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 Thanks for the responses - 5 people have them, two people (plus me!) have yet to get theirs. 2009/11/20 Dave Torr > Has anyone received their copy of this yet? It was supposed to be out in > Oct so I had hoped to get mine by now > Thanks > > Dave > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: lutinistic Brown Honeyeater From: "Julian Bielewicz" <osprey AT bordernet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:53:11 +1000 Greetings All On Sunday Fay and I came across [and photographed] a lutinistic Brown Honeyeater. Is anyone aware of a previous similar sighting and if so where I can source the details? Indeed, as I have been asked to prepare a brief report about the critter can anyone point me in the right direction for some background research. Google appears to favour cagebird mutations. Cheers Julian =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: The anomymous currawong... From: "Cas and Lisa Liber" <casliber AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:38:38 +1100 I recently buffed up the Pied Currawong page on wikipedia. One thing that struck me was a lack of folklore, legends and cultural depictions, both by contemporary and indigenous folks alike (when compared with either Magpies or corvids). Wondered if anyone had any names/legends or even modern symbolism to add... Cas =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Jabiru - similar issue with conure From: "Cas and Lisa Liber" <casliber AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:38:56 +1100 Funnily enough, another naming issue came up which aroused emotions elsewhere. I always liked 'conure' as a mopre specific term than 'paakeet' for the neotropical species to distinguish them from Australasian birds also called parakeets. However, another bird enthusiast (and ornithologist) explained his distaste for the word as it was an avicultural word (and hence related to problems these species suffer from the aviculture trade..) Cas =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Scarlet Honeyeater irruption? From: Carol Probets <origma AT westnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:24:17 +1100 Just catching up on a backlog of emails so a late reply to this thread. Keith, there were several Scarlet Honeyeaters at Scheyville NP in the Hawkesbury on Twitchathon weekend (1st Nov) and the week prior to that. I think there have been more than usual in the Blue Mountains lately: e.g. Megalong Valley (as per my earlier posting). I've also seen them at Blackheath last week and on the Wiggins Track at Springwood yesterday. However, there seem to be fewer than usual in the Capertee Valley. Not surprising given the dry conditions and lack of flowering thereat the moment. Cheers, Carol At 11:12 AM +1100 13/11/09, Keith Brandwood wrote: >Hi Russell, thetas where they are, there have been very few in the >Hawkesbury this year. They are usually numerous in Mitchell Park but >have not recorded one as yet this year. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell Woodford" > >To: >Cc: "birding birding-aus" >Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 9:54 AM >Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Birding-Aus] Scarlet Honeyeater irruption? > >>Hi David >> >>Have you looked at Eremaea lately? There are Scarlet HE popping up >>everywhere. Quite a few Twitchathon teams saw them. We got a couple >>at Park Orchards, where up to 3 have been seen. >> >>This is quite unlike the last time we had Scarlet HE west of >>Melbourne - in 1994 there were a couple (1 or 2 - can't remember >>exactly) in the library car park at Deakin Waurn Ponds. Margaret >>Cameron showed them to me - they were the first rarity to go on >>birding-aus! >> >>It will be interesting to see just how widespread they are, and I >>encourage anyone who sees them in Victoria to put a record on >>Eremaea: >> >>http://www.eremaea.com/BirdlineSighting.aspx?Birdline=1 >> >>Cheers >> >>Russell >> >> >> >>On 12/11/2009, at 5:19 PM, David.Clark AT dpcd.vic.gov.au wrote: >> >>>Chris >>> >>>I visited Fairy Dell on the afternoon of of 4 November and saw in excess of >>>20 Scarlet Honeyeaters - and heard lots more. >>> >>>Interestingly, I saw 3 Scarlet Honeyeaters at 100 Acres Reserve in >>>Melbourne's east on 31 October. >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>David >>> =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Live Lens From: "Stewart Ford" <stewart.ford AT ecologia.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:00:07 +0800 Looking at http://www.livetechnologies.com.au/prototype-demonstration.htm the live lens's performance doesn't appear to be particularly impressive. There are significant issues with posterisation and shifts of colour. I didn't see the new inventors spot but if they were doing demonstrations like the one shown at the link above, I don't think people would have been particularly impressed (perhaps the prototype is much worse than the final product?). It certainly doesn't equate to the abilities of HDR used in stills photography, for example. Stewart Ford -----Original Message----- From: Peter Shute [mailto:pshute AT nuw.org.au] Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 2:35 PM To: 'Peter.Fuller AT callista.com.au'; 'alistair.mckeough AT gmail.com' Cc: 'birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au'; 'multilow AT bigpond.com' Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens I'm guessing that what this "lens" does is reduce the dynamic range of the image to match the capabilities of the sensor, rather than actually increase the range captured. I assume it does this by masking bright parts with an LCD filter, like "dodging". If so, then it's more of a filter than a lens, and would only help cope with highlights, not low lighting in general. A good idea, but whether it would be useful more often than it would be a hindrance in bird photography is another matter. Peter Shute -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au To: Alistair McKeough Cc: Birding-Aus ; Bill Moorhead Sent: Fri Nov 20 17:00:30 2009 Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Dynamic range is a human concept. You might be able to fiddle around with merging algorithms on board a camera or in post processing software, but at the end of the day it comes down to the viewers perception of the scene and how they want to represent it. This invention would be ok for survelliance equipment or any application that requires as much detail as possible to be captured, but for artistic purposes i'd imagine it would create very 'unnatural' looking images....whatever that means these days. ;) Has anyone tried doing HDR bird photography? Alistair McKeough Sent by: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au 20/11/2009 04:41 PM To Bill Moorhead cc Birding-Aus Subject Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Interesting. If you can solve dynamic range problems with modern cameras you'd make a truck load of money and open up a vast array of applications - assuming you can maintain image quality. Is Ansel Adams' zone system finally obsolete? I think he'd be smiling from above if it is. 2009/11/20 Bill Moorhead > A friend passed this segment from the TV programme New Inventors onto me. > > http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2746555.htm > > This, so called, Live Lens is the size of a postage stamp and apparently > can be retrofitted to existing cameras and lenses. Issues of lightness and > darkness in the same image appear to be improved markedly. Anyway, it'd be > interesting to see how the invention goes. > > Cheers, > > Bill > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Live Lens From: Peter.Fuller AT callista.com.au Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:41:52 +1100 Yes..the ability to shoot in harsh light is the main driver for this technology and will lead to an opening up of new artistic aethetics. Sunset/sunrise lighting has dominated the majority of well balanced photographs for so long that it will take a while for people to attune to new types of lighting. "Jeff Davies" 20/11/2009 05:27 PM To , "'Alistair McKeough'" cc "'Birding-Aus'" , "'Bill Moorhead'" Subject RE: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens G'day Peter, I think this facility has huge promise especially in a country like ours with such harsh light for six months of every year. Photographing an Albatross at sea on a bright day with the sun high in the sky is a very hard task. If you were able to set your aperture for the blacks while retaining the white areas, it is a simple task to then go through Photoshop resetting the levels to something more normal, but with the detail of both light and dark retained equally, this is impossible with current camera models. No amount of "Shadow Highlights" in Photoshop can bring back detail that just isn't there to be retrieved. This is "Shadow Highlights" at point of capture. The examples presented on the website are extreme, a more subtle application at the discretion of the photographer would be very handy. Cheers Jeff. -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Peter.Fuller AT callista.com.au Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 5:01 PM To: Alistair McKeough Cc: Birding-Aus; Bill Moorhead Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Dynamic range is a human concept. You might be able to fiddle around with merging algorithms on board a camera or in post processing software, but at the end of the day it comes down to the viewers perception of the scene and how they want to represent it. This invention would be ok for survelliance equipment or any application that requires as much detail as possible to be captured, but for artistic purposes i'd imagine it would create very 'unnatural' looking images....whatever that means these days. ;) Has anyone tried doing HDR bird photography? Alistair McKeough Sent by: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au 20/11/2009 04:41 PM To Bill Moorhead cc Birding-Aus Subject Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Interesting. If you can solve dynamic range problems with modern cameras you'd make a truck load of money and open up a vast array of applications - assuming you can maintain image quality. Is Ansel Adams' zone system finally obsolete? I think he'd be smiling from above if it is. 2009/11/20 Bill Moorhead > A friend passed this segment from the TV programme New Inventors onto me. > > http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2746555.htm > > This, so called, Live Lens is the size of a postage stamp and apparently > can be retrofitted to existing cameras and lenses. Issues of lightness and > darkness in the same image appear to be improved markedly. Anyway, it'd be > interesting to see how the invention goes. > > Cheers, > > Bill > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 From: Dave Torr <davidtorr AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:40:52 +1100 Thanks for the responses - 5 people have them, two people (plus me!) have yet to get theirs. 2009/11/20 Dave Torr > Has anyone received their copy of this yet? It was supposed to be out in > Oct so I had hoped to get mine by now > Thanks > > Dave > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Live Lens From: Peter Shute <pshute AT nuw.org.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:34:49 +1100 I'm guessing that what this "lens" does is reduce the dynamic range of the image to match the capabilities of the sensor, rather than actually increase the range captured. I assume it does this by masking bright parts with an LCD filter, like "dodging". If so, then it's more of a filter than a lens, and would only help cope with highlights, not low lighting in general. A good idea, but whether it would be useful more often than it would be a hindrance in bird photography is another matter. Peter Shute -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au To: Alistair McKeough Cc: Birding-Aus ; Bill Moorhead Sent: Fri Nov 20 17:00:30 2009 Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Dynamic range is a human concept. You might be able to fiddle around with merging algorithms on board a camera or in post processing software, but at the end of the day it comes down to the viewers perception of the scene and how they want to represent it. This invention would be ok for survelliance equipment or any application that requires as much detail as possible to be captured, but for artistic purposes i'd imagine it would create very 'unnatural' looking images....whatever that means these days. ;) Has anyone tried doing HDR bird photography? Alistair McKeough Sent by: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au 20/11/2009 04:41 PM To Bill Moorhead cc Birding-Aus Subject Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Interesting. If you can solve dynamic range problems with modern cameras you'd make a truck load of money and open up a vast array of applications - assuming you can maintain image quality. Is Ansel Adams' zone system finally obsolete? I think he'd be smiling from above if it is. 2009/11/20 Bill Moorhead > A friend passed this segment from the TV programme New Inventors onto me. > > http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2746555.htm > > This, so called, Live Lens is the size of a postage stamp and apparently > can be retrofitted to existing cameras and lenses. Issues of lightness and > darkness in the same image appear to be improved markedly. Anyway, it'd be > interesting to see how the invention goes. > > Cheers, > > Bill > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Live Lens From: "Jeff Davies" <jeff AT jeffdavies.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:27:29 +1100 G'day Peter, I think this facility has huge promise especially in a country like ours with such harsh light for six months of every year. Photographing an Albatross at sea on a bright day with the sun high in the sky is a very hard task. If you were able to set your aperture for the blacks while retaining the white areas, it is a simple task to then go through Photoshop resetting the levels to something more normal, but with the detail of both light and dark retained equally, this is impossible with current camera models. No amount of "Shadow Highlights" in Photoshop can bring back detail that just isn't there to be retrieved. This is "Shadow Highlights" at point of capture. The examples presented on the website are extreme, a more subtle application at the discretion of the photographer would be very handy. Cheers Jeff. -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Peter.Fuller AT callista.com.au Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 5:01 PM To: Alistair McKeough Cc: Birding-Aus; Bill Moorhead Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Dynamic range is a human concept. You might be able to fiddle around with merging algorithms on board a camera or in post processing software, but at the end of the day it comes down to the viewers perception of the scene and how they want to represent it. This invention would be ok for survelliance equipment or any application that requires as much detail as possible to be captured, but for artistic purposes i'd imagine it would create very 'unnatural' looking images....whatever that means these days. ;) Has anyone tried doing HDR bird photography? Alistair McKeough Sent by: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au 20/11/2009 04:41 PM To Bill Moorhead cc Birding-Aus Subject Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Interesting. If you can solve dynamic range problems with modern cameras you'd make a truck load of money and open up a vast array of applications - assuming you can maintain image quality. Is Ansel Adams' zone system finally obsolete? I think he'd be smiling from above if it is. 2009/11/20 Bill Moorhead > A friend passed this segment from the TV programme New Inventors onto me. > > http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2746555.htm > > This, so called, Live Lens is the size of a postage stamp and apparently > can be retrofitted to existing cameras and lenses. Issues of lightness and > darkness in the same image appear to be improved markedly. Anyway, it'd be > interesting to see how the invention goes. > > Cheers, > > Bill > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Live Lens From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:15:03 +1100 Not yet, but as I have recently bought a camera which can do it (Pentax K-7), it is one of the techniques I am going to try; once work my way through the 2 cm. thick manual. Carl Clifford On 20/11/2009, at 5:00 PM, Peter.Fuller AT callista.com.au wrote: Has anyone tried doing HDR bird photography? Alistair McKeough Sent by: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au 20/11/2009 04:41 PM To Bill Moorhead cc Birding-Aus Subject Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Interesting. If you can solve dynamic range problems with modern cameras you'd make a truck load of money and open up a vast array of applications - assuming you can maintain image quality. Is Ansel Adams' zone system finally obsolete? I think he'd be smiling from above if it is. 2009/11/20 Bill Moorhead > A friend passed this segment from the TV programme New Inventors onto me. > > http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2746555.htm > > This, so called, Live Lens is the size of a postage stamp and > apparently > can be retrofitted to existing cameras and lenses. Issues of lightness and > darkness in the same image appear to be improved markedly. Anyway, > it'd be > interesting to see how the invention goes. > > Cheers, > > Bill > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Anyone want Red Junglefowl for their Victorian list? From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:08:16 +1100 I think that would be a fowl tick. On 20/11/2009, at 3:53 PM, Steve wrote: G'day all I called into the Trawalla State Forest (a few km east of Beaufort in western Victoria) to check if Satin Flycatchers had returned (they had and I saw several at close quarters). A large, moving object caught my eye at one point and walking towards me through the box forest was a Red Junglefowl. This was a resplendent male with white and cream plumage and magnificent red comb and wattles. It eventually wandered right up to me in response to my 'chook chook' calls. When I walked away it gave a crow and proceeded to forage in the forest. I suspect you would have to be quick to twitch it - no doubt it will be a meal for a fox in no time. Cheers Steve Website: http://members.datafast.net.au/clarkja/swvicbirds/ Twitter: AT Steve_Clark ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Live Lens From: Peter.Fuller AT callista.com.au Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:00:30 +1100 Dynamic range is a human concept. You might be able to fiddle around with merging algorithms on board a camera or in post processing software, but at the end of the day it comes down to the viewers perception of the scene and how they want to represent it. This invention would be ok for survelliance equipment or any application that requires as much detail as possible to be captured, but for artistic purposes i'd imagine it would create very 'unnatural' looking images....whatever that means these days. ;) Has anyone tried doing HDR bird photography? Alistair McKeough Sent by: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au 20/11/2009 04:41 PM To Bill Moorhead cc Birding-Aus Subject Re: [Birding-Aus] Live Lens Interesting. If you can solve dynamic range problems with modern cameras you'd make a truck load of money and open up a vast array of applications - assuming you can maintain image quality. Is Ansel Adams' zone system finally obsolete? I think he'd be smiling from above if it is. 2009/11/20 Bill Moorhead > A friend passed this segment from the TV programme New Inventors onto me. > > http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2746555.htm > > This, so called, Live Lens is the size of a postage stamp and apparently > can be retrofitted to existing cameras and lenses. Issues of lightness and > darkness in the same image appear to be improved markedly. Anyway, it'd be > interesting to see how the invention goes. > > Cheers, > > Bill > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 From: Fiona Anderson <fea2003 AT hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:46:21 +1100 Yes I received mine about 10-14 days ago as I buy it as my daughter's Christmas present. Fortunately she won't see this as she is currently too busy and pregant to be on line!! > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:06:36 +1100 > From: davidtorr AT gmail.com > To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 > > Has anyone received their copy of this yet? It was supposed to be out in Oct > so I had hoped to get mine by now > Thanks > > Dave > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== _________________________________________________________________ Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area! http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: Live Lens From: Alistair McKeough <alistair.mckeough AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:36:09 +1100 Interesting. If you can solve dynamic range problems with modern cameras you'd make a truck load of money and open up a vast array of applications - assuming you can maintain image quality. Is Ansel Adams' zone system finally obsolete? I think he'd be smiling from above if it is. 2009/11/20 Bill Moorhead > A friend passed this segment from the TV programme New Inventors onto me. > > http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2746555.htm > > This, so called, Live Lens is the size of a postage stamp and apparently > can be retrofitted to existing cameras and lenses. Issues of lightness and > darkness in the same image appear to be improved markedly. Anyway, it'd be > interesting to see how the invention goes. > > Cheers, > > Bill > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Live Lens From: "Bill Moorhead" <multilow AT bigpond.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:46:12 +1000 A friend passed this segment from the TV programme New Inventors onto me. http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2746555.htm This, so called, Live Lens is the size of a postage stamp and apparently can be retrofitted to existing cameras and lenses. Issues of lightness and darkness in the same image appear to be improved markedly. Anyway, it'd be interesting to see how the invention goes. Cheers, Bill =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Anyone want Red Junglefowl for their Victorian list? From: John Tongue <jspk AT iprimus.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:22:42 +1100 Red Junglefowl, or 'Foghorn Leghorn'? John Tongue Ulverstone, Tas. On 20/11/2009, at 3:53 PM, Steve wrote: > G'day all > > I called into the Trawalla State Forest (a few km east of Beaufort in western Victoria) to check if Satin Flycatchers had returned (they had and I saw several at close quarters). A large, moving object caught my eye at one point and walking towards me through the box forest was a Red Junglefowl. This was a resplendent male with white and cream plumage and magnificent red comb and wattles. It eventually wandered right up to me in response to my 'chook chook' calls. When I walked away it gave a crow and proceeded to forage in the forest. I suspect you would have to be quick to twitch it - no doubt it will be a meal for a fox in no time. > > Cheers > Steve > > Website: http://members.datafast.net.au/clarkja/swvicbirds/ > Twitter: AT Steve_Clark > > > > ==============================www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > ============================== ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Peter Shute <pshute AT nuw.org.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:51:15 +1100 Do you need the approval of the speakers of that language first? Otherwise it's kind of like when they put indigenous artwork on our dollar bill(?), just assuming it would be ok to do that without asking the artist. Peter Shute -------------------------- Sent using BlackBerry ----- Original Message ----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au To: Carl Clifford Cc: birding aus Sent: Fri Nov 20 13:13:00 2009 Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome Carl, congratulations on an elegant solution. Alan > It should not be a problem if you use the language of the people from > the area where the Australian phenotype was taken. I think that it > should be the procedure for selection of common names for any future > splits in Australia. > > Carl Clifford =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Anyone want Red Junglefowl for their Victorian list? From: Steve <steveclark AT eftel.net.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:53:42 +1100 G'day all I called into the Trawalla State Forest (a few km east of Beaufort in western Victoria) to check if Satin Flycatchers had returned (they had and I saw several at close quarters). A large, moving object caught my eye at one point and walking towards me through the box forest was a Red Junglefowl. This was a resplendent male with white and cream plumage and magnificent red comb and wattles. It eventually wandered right up to me in response to my 'chook chook' calls. When I walked away it gave a crow and proceeded to forage in the forest. I suspect you would have to be quick to twitch it - no doubt it will be a meal for a fox in no time. Cheers Steve Website: http://members.datafast.net.au/clarkja/swvicbirds/ Twitter: AT Steve_Clark ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: "Ross Macfarlane" <rmacfarl AT alphalink.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:30:48 +1100 Anglicised as Jiggery-jiggery - I like it, but it might give people the wrong idea! :-) Ross Macfarlane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise Goodfellow" To: "Michael Tarburton" ; "Birding Aus" Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula,near Broome > Hi Mike > The Kunwinjku word for grasswren might be a handful - > Djigirridjdjigirridj. > It's onomatopoeic. the same term is used for Willie Wagtail. > > Name for Red-backed Fairy-wren, the only fairy-wren they know, is > Dalgerowken, a name given to all songbirds with red and brown plumage (eg > Crimson Finch). Finches are easier - the generic name is nin! > Denise > > > on 20/11/09 8:40 AM, Michael Tarburton at tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au > wrote: > >> G'day B-aussers >> >> Yes a lovely ring to it: a bit like Badger for Wombats in Tassie & >> Vic. and Opossum for the Brush-tailed Possum in NZ,. >> >> I wonder if we could accommodate some aboriginal names to replace >> other foreign mismatches such as: Cuckoo-shrike & Shrike-thrush. >> After all we did manage to shake off miss-matches such as warblers - >> for gerygones, tailor bird for cisticola, & fairy-wren for wren. >> mmn - Is that last one an improvement or would an aboriginal word be >> more Australian? >> >> Cheers >> >> Mike >> =================== >> Michael Tarburton >> tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au >> =================== >> >> >> >> >> On 19/11/2009, at 3:02 PM, Alistair McKeough wrote: >> >>> PS - no offense to Greg or anyone of course! Just my view that I think >>> Jabiru has a wonderful ring to it. >>> >>> 2009/11/19 Alistair McKeough >>> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== > > > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Bluef-aced Parrot-Finches From: "Alan Gillanders" <alan AT alanswildlifetours.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:17:47 +1000 Greetings, These birds have been seen on Gourka Rd, Lamond's Hill, Topaz, Malanda over the last few days. Regards, Alan Gillanders Alan's Wildlife Tours 2 Mather Road Yungaburra 4884 www.alanswildlifetours.com.au Phone 07 4095 3784 Int. + 61 7 4095 3784 Mobile 0408 953 786 Alan's blog http://alanswildlife.blogspot.com/ =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Slater - some more comments From: Dave Torr <davidtorr AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:16:37 +1100 Having used it as my guide on two trips recently I have noticed the following points in additions to those others have made: Rock Dove appears only as a line drawing on P214 with no text, map etc - all other introduced doves are illustrated Abbot's Booby was clearly an afterthought on P68 - it does not appear on the main colour plate of boobies on P69 at all The following introduced species are not in the index and I can't find them anywhere - as I noted in an earlier email cormorants are in twice so maybe this page was dropped - California Quail, Turkey, Peafowl, Pheasant, Guinea-fowl Since it claims to have ALL Aussie birds in it the last point surely makes them liable to claims for refunds????? =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:09:11 +1100 Wise words indeed. On 20/11/2009, at 2:31 PM, Alan Gillanders wrote: Carl Clifford wrote, "Old Lexy Pope sure was right when he wrote "to err is Human"." Perhaps a more apt quotation from Pope for this thread is, "Be not the first by whom the new are tried Nor yet the last to lay the old aside." Alan > > Cheers, > > Carl Clifford > > > On 20/11/2009, at 7:45 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: > > > > There are already names common to each species - scientific names. > And > generally, not are they only descriptive but often poetic! > Denise > > > > > on 20/11/09 5:58 AM, Greg & Val Clancy at gclancy AT tpg.com.au wrote: > >> Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for >> it. There >> are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me >> Denise >> Goodfellow did I get it right?). >> >> A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's >> box not >> worth opening. >> >> >> Greg Clancy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carl Clifford" >> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" >> Cc: ; "birding aus" > > >> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM >> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier >> peninsula, near >> Broome >> >> >>> HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that >>> if/ when >>> it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous >>> name. After >>> all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he >>> described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have >>> three >>> different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 >>> continents >>> called Jabiru. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Carl Clifford >>> >>> >>> On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: >>> >>> >>> Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! >>> >>> I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin >>> Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address >>> the >>> main issues raised one by one. >>> >>> One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the >>> name in >>> an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our >>> bird and one >>> which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. >>> It seems >>> that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is >>> because the >>> bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and >>> on the >>> black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in >>> the name >>> provides some information on what type of bird it really is. >>> "Jabiru' >>> could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and >>> New >>> Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate >>> species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' >>> to the >>> Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some >>> concern >>> about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and >>> Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the >>> name, >>> but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. >>> It was >>> also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be >>> fully >>> supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 >>> edition of >>> Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it >>> is very >>> likely to happen in the future. >>> >>> "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main >>> arguments of the >>> 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and >>> clumsy. >>> Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In >>> addition it is >>> not only the neck that is 'satin'. >>> >>> "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name >>> for >>> places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin >>> are great >>> because they refer to only one place each. There are many >>> indigenous >>> names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be >>> selected? >>> It is far better to document the indigenous names separately >>> from the >>> common name. In that way all local names are given equal >>> prominence. It >>> would be different if in the early European history of this >>> continent an >>> indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as >>> with the >>> Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American >>> indigenous name >>> to our stork. >>> >>> >>> Greg Clancy >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" >>> Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" >>> >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM >>> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier >>> peninsula, near Broome >>> >>> >>>> >>>> G'day Gret, >>>> >>>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins >>>> behind the >>>> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it >>>> certainly >>>> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. >>>> >>>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if >>>> this >>>> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process >>>> associated with how names are decided. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >>> >>> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== > > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Handbook of Birds of the World Vol 14 From: Dave Torr <davidtorr AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:06:36 +1100 Has anyone received their copy of this yet? It was supposed to be out in Oct so I had hoped to get mine by now Thanks Dave =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: "Alan Gillanders" <alan AT alanswildlifetours.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:31:13 +1000 Carl Clifford wrote, "Old Lexy Pope sure was right when he wrote "to err is Human"." Perhaps a more apt quotation from Pope for this thread is, "Be not the first by whom the new are tried Nor yet the last to lay the old aside." Alan > > Cheers, > > Carl Clifford > > > On 20/11/2009, at 7:45 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: > > > > There are already names common to each species - scientific names. And > generally, not are they only descriptive but often poetic! > Denise > > > > > on 20/11/09 5:58 AM, Greg & Val Clancy at gclancy AT tpg.com.au wrote: > >> Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for it. >> There >> are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me Denise >> Goodfellow did I get it right?). >> >> A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's box >> not >> worth opening. >> >> >> Greg Clancy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carl Clifford" >> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" >> Cc: ; "birding aus" >> > > >> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM >> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, >> near >> Broome >> >> >>> HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ >>> when >>> it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. >>> After >>> all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he >>> described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have three >>> different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 >>> continents >>> called Jabiru. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Carl Clifford >>> >>> >>> On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: >>> >>> >>> Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! >>> >>> I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin >>> Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the >>> main issues raised one by one. >>> >>> One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name >>> in >>> an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and >>> one >>> which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It >>> seems >>> that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because >>> the >>> bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on >>> the >>> black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name >>> provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' >>> could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New >>> Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate >>> species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the >>> Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some >>> concern >>> about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and >>> Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the >>> name, >>> but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was >>> also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be >>> fully >>> supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of >>> Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is >>> very >>> likely to happen in the future. >>> >>> "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of >>> the >>> 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. >>> Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it >>> is >>> not only the neck that is 'satin'. >>> >>> "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for >>> places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are >>> great >>> because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous >>> names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be >>> selected? >>> It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the >>> common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. >>> It >>> would be different if in the early European history of this continent >>> an >>> indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with >>> the >>> Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous >>> name >>> to our stork. >>> >>> >>> Greg Clancy >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" >>> Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" >>> >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM >>> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier >>> peninsula, near Broome >>> >>> >>>> >>>> G'day Gret, >>>> >>>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind >>>> the >>>> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it >>>> certainly >>>> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. >>>> >>>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if >>>> this >>>> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process >>>> associated with how names are decided. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> >>> >>> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== > > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re 'English Australian bird names' From: "Shirley Cook" <shirleycook1 AT bigpond.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:24:09 +1100 How about shrike-thrush that is neither a shrike nor a thrush - and adding to "other names" I have a friend who hails from Melbourne who insists that Yellow-rumped Thornbills are "Butter-bums"! Hmph! Shirley Cook Secretary/Treasurer Birds Australia (Northern NSW) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nikolas Haass" To: "Carl Clifford" ; "Tony Russell" Cc: ; "Pat OMalley" Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'English Australian bird names' > Keep in mind that a large number of English bird names both in Australia > and American are misnomers, because they were named by their superficial > resemblance to European birds more familiar to the British people > colonizing other continents. > Brushturkeys aren't turkeys, WW Choughs aren't choughs, Aussie Magpies > aren't magpies, Old World Warblers, New World Warblers and Gerygones are > unrelated taxonomic groups, robins aren't robins, chats aren't chats, > flycatchers aren't flycatchers, treecreepers aren't treecreepers, wrens > aren't wrens, songlarks aren't larks (but Old World Warblers!)... > > Does it matter? Maybe not. But it can get quite complicated when you guide > people from other continents who quite often get very confused... > > Cheers, > > Nikolas > > ---------------- > Nikolas Haass > nhaass AT yahoo.com > Sydney, NSW > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Carl Clifford > To: Tony Russell > Cc: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au; Pat OMalley > Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 11:48:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' > > Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years. > People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not > thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and it > was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on the > map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got there > first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you go blue > in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the name yonks > ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated. > > Cheers, > > Carl Clifford > > > On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote: > > It's a JABIRU ! > > -----Original Message----- > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM > To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' > > > Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black > Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit > presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! > > Cheers > > Pat > ==========www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =========== > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,send the message: > unsubscribe(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > > > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09 07:51:00 =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:18:35 +1100 Scientific names can be as confused as common name. I was recently abstracting an article from BirdingASIA and came across the name Janthocincla maxima (Giant Laughingthrush) in an article. The name did not ring a bell, so I did a bit of research on the internet and found in the Index of Organism names site, that the spelling should be Ianthocincla maxima, though Janthocincla appears regularly in web sites and even Lanthocincla appears on a few, all referring to the Giant Laughingthrush!! Old Lexy Pope sure was right when he wrote "to err is Human". Cheers, Carl Clifford On 20/11/2009, at 7:45 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: There are already names common to each species - scientific names. And generally, not are they only descriptive but often poetic! Denise on 20/11/09 5:58 AM, Greg & Val Clancy at gclancy AT tpg.com.au wrote: > Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for > it. There > are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me > Denise > Goodfellow did I get it right?). > > A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's > box not > worth opening. > > > Greg Clancy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Clifford" > To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > Cc: ; "birding aus" > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier > peninsula, near > Broome > > >> HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that >> if/ when >> it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. >> After >> all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he >> described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have >> three >> different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 >> continents >> called Jabiru. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Carl Clifford >> >> >> On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: >> >> >> Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! >> >> I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin >> Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the >> main issues raised one by one. >> >> One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the >> name in >> an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird >> and one >> which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It >> seems >> that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is >> because the >> bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and >> on the >> black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the >> name >> provides some information on what type of bird it really is. >> "Jabiru' >> could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New >> Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate >> species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to >> the >> Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some >> concern >> about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and >> Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the >> name, >> but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It >> was >> also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be >> fully >> supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition >> of >> Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it >> is very >> likely to happen in the future. >> >> "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments >> of the >> 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. >> Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition >> it is >> not only the neck that is 'satin'. >> >> "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for >> places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin >> are great >> because they refer to only one place each. There are many >> indigenous >> names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be >> selected? >> It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from >> the >> common name. In that way all local names are given equal >> prominence. It >> would be different if in the early European history of this >> continent an >> indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as >> with the >> Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous >> name >> to our stork. >> >> >> Greg Clancy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" >> Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM >> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier >> peninsula, near Broome >> >> >>> >>> G'day Gret, >>> >>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins >>> behind the >>> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it >>> certainly >>> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. >>> >>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if >>> this >>> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process >>> associated with how names are decided. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Mark >>> >>> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== >> >> >> > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: "Alan Gillanders" <alan AT alanswildlifetours.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:13:00 +1000 Carl, congratulations on an elegant solution. Alan > It should not be a problem if you use the language of the people from > the area where the Australian phenotype was taken. I think that it > should be the procedure for selection of common names for any future > splits in Australia. > > Carl Clifford =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: SEQ needletails From: "Trevor Ford" <tachuris163 AT bigpond.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:23:29 +1000 There was a swirling flock of at least 250 White-throated Needletails over the southern part of Bribie Island, SEQ, at atound 1330 today. There could have been twice that number present. The two flocks of needletails I've seen recently have numbered 500+ and 250+ ... considerably more than I've seen in these parts in recent years. Why don't we call them Whitethroats, I wonder? Cheers - Trevor. Trevor Ford ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: Re 'English Australian bird names' From: Katrina Knight <kknight AT fastmail.fm> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:28:58 -0500 At 07:00 PM 11/19/2009 Carl Clifford wrote: >I think you would find it difficult to convince an American >birder that a Black-faced Cuckoo-Shrike is a Blue-Jay I'm certainly not convinced. :-) For one thing, Black-faced Cuckoo-shrikes are not blue, at least the ones I saw weren't. It seems to me that the purpose of having standardized names is to communicate with each other. Calling totally different birds by the same name works fine on a local level where everyone is sure of which species you mean, but it is increasingly problematic on a bigger level. Thirty-some years ago when I started birding, I never came into contact with birders outside my little local area. Now I regularly communicate with people on the far side of the world. I think it is good for each species to have a unique standard name that we can all use to communicate on a larger level but I see nothing wrong with also referring to birds by other names on a more personal level. The way I talk to my birding pals at home differs from the way I talk to a larger group of people I don't necessarily know in a variety of ways. Different situations call for different standards of communicating. I find that many older names are more interesting and descriptive than the standard names. In North America, the people who assign names have been way too fond of "Eastern", "Northern" and "American", none of which tell me much about the bird in question or sound pleasing. "Jabiru" is a more satisfying name than "Black-necked Stork" but to me, it doesn't mean the bird in Australia. Whatever you call it, seeing one was very satisfying for me. I'd love to have an opportunity to see more of them. -- Katrina Knight kknight AT fastmail.fm Reading, PA, USA =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re 'Jabiru' From: Chris Ross <chrisx2 AT ihug.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:20:26 +1100 Call it an Australian Jabiru and shorten the name in every day speech to Jabiru as all good Aussies would do. Chris Ross Tony Russell wrote: > Peter, it will get lost if it keeps Straya-ing all over the place. > > -----Original Message----- > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Peter Shute > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:52 AM > To: Chris Ross; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' > > > I guess they added "Australian" to Magpie to make it unique. I.e it > might be wrong, but at least it's unique. That's a good example of a > name that probably couldn't be changed, even the most pedantic among us > would most likely ignore a new name for it. > > We could always go with Australian Jabiru, or Australian Black-necked > Stork. If that's too much of a mouthful then we could just change the > name of the country to Straya - two less syllables, and that's how a lot > of us pronounce it anyway. Stray'n Jabiru, what do you think? > > Peter Shute > > -----Original Message----- > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Chris Ross > Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 8:40 AM > To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' > > So what about Magpie?, officially Australian magpie, but shortened in > Aussie fashion to Magpie, there's plenty of other birds around the place > called Magpie. > > Chris Ross > > Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years. > People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not > thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and > it was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on > the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got > there first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you > go blue in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the > name yonks ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated. > > Cheers, > > Carl Clifford > > > On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote: > > It's a JABIRU ! > > -----Original Message----- > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > > [birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] > On Behalf Of Pat > OMalley > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM > To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > Subject: Re 'Jabiru' > > > Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black > Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit > presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! > > Cheers > > Pat > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== > ==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =========== > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3553 (20081024) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re 'English Australian bird names' From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:00:57 +1100 I think you would find it difficult to convince an American birder that a Black-faced Cuckoo-Shrike is a Blue-Jay Carl Clifford On 20/11/2009, at 8:12 AM, Nikolas Haass wrote: Keep in mind that a large number of English bird names both in Australia and American are misnomers, because they were named by their superficial resemblance to European birds more familiar to the British people colonizing other continents. Brushturkeys aren't turkeys, WW Choughs aren't choughs, Aussie Magpies aren't magpies, Old World Warblers, New World Warblers and Gerygones are unrelated taxonomic groups, robins aren't robins, chats aren't chats, flycatchers aren't flycatchers, treecreepers aren't treecreepers, wrens aren't wrens, songlarks aren't larks (but Old World Warblers!)... Does it matter? Maybe not. But it can get quite complicated when you guide people from other continents who quite often get very confused... Cheers, Nikolas ---------------- Nikolas Haass nhaass AT yahoo.com Sydney, NSW ----- Original Message ---- From: Carl Clifford To: Tony Russell Cc: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au; Pat OMalley Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 11:48:41 PM Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years. People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and it was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got there first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you go blue in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the name yonks ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote: It's a JABIRU ! -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! Cheers Pat ==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =========== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list,send the message: unsubscribe(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:48:54 +1100 It should not be a problem if you use the language of the people from the area where the Australian phenotype was taken. I think that it should be the procedure for selection of common names for any future splits in Australia. Carl Clifford On 20/11/2009, at 7:28 AM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for it. There are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me Denise Goodfellow did I get it right?). A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's box not worth opening. Greg Clancy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Clifford" To: "Greg & Val Clancy" Cc: ; "birding aus" Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome > HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ > when it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous > name. After all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use > one when he described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit > crazy to have three different species of stork, from three > different genera, on 3 continents called Jabiru. > > Cheers, > > Carl Clifford > > > On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: > > > Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! > > I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin > Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address > the main issues raised one by one. > > One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the > name in an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for > our bird and one which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard > 'Jabiru' people. It seems that I have lost out with Tony!! The > reference to Satin is because the bird has a beautiful satin-like > sheen over its head and neck and on the black feathering of the > wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name provides some > information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' could be a > plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New Guinean > race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate species > a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the Birds > Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some concern > about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and > Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the > name, but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept > it. It was also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then > it would be fully supported. The predicted split did not happen in > the 2008 edition of Christidis and Boles as they wanted more > genetic evidence but it is very likely to happen in the future. > > "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments > of the 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long > and clumsy. Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. > In addition it is not only the neck that is 'satin'. > > "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name > for places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin > are great because they refer to only one place each. There are > many indigenous names for the Stork so how would the most > appropriate one be selected? It is far better to document the > indigenous names separately from the common name. In that way all > local names are given equal prominence. It would be different if > in the early European history of this continent an indigenous name > was applied and it became commonly used, such as with the Galah. > Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name to > our stork. > > > Greg Clancy > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" > > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier > peninsula, near Broome > > >> >> G'day Gret, >> >> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind >> the name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it >> certainly sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. >> >> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if >> this is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the >> process associated with how names are decided. >> >> Regards, >> Mark >> >> > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Michael Tarburton <tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:49:20 +1100 G'day Denise & other readers, Yes I think we came across that name for gasswren while up helping in the NT with the Carpentarian Grasswren surveys earlier this year. However, these hyphenated European names are not short - just a bit more familiar to most birders in Aus. Cheers Mike =================== Michael Tarburton tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au =================== On 20/11/2009, at 10:17 AM, Denise Goodfellow wrote: > Hi Mike > The Kunwinjku word for grasswren might be a handful - > Djigirridjdjigirridj. > It's onomatopoeic. the same term is used for Willie Wagtail. > > Name for Red-backed Fairy-wren, the only fairy-wren they know, is > Dalgerowken, a name given to all songbirds with red and brown > plumage (eg > Crimson Finch). Finches are easier - the generic name is nin! > Denise > > > on 20/11/09 8:40 AM, Michael Tarburton at > tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au wrote: > >> G'day B-aussers >> >> Yes a lovely ring to it: a bit like Badger for Wombats in Tassie & >> Vic. and Opossum for the Brush-tailed Possum in NZ,. >> >> I wonder if we could accommodate some aboriginal names to replace >> other foreign mismatches such as: Cuckoo-shrike & Shrike-thrush. >> After all we did manage to shake off miss-matches such as warblers - >> for gerygones, tailor bird for cisticola, & fairy-wren for wren. >> mmn - Is that last one an improvement or would an aboriginal word be >> more Australian? >> >> Cheers >> >> Mike >> =================== >> Michael Tarburton >> tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au >> =================== >> >> >> >> >> On 19/11/2009, at 3:02 PM, Alistair McKeough wrote: >> >>> PS - no offense to Greg or anyone of course! Just my view that I >>> think >>> Jabiru has a wonderful ring to it. >>> >>> 2009/11/19 Alistair McKeough >>> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Denise Goodfellow <goodfellow AT bigpond.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:47:51 +0930 Hi Mike The Kunwinjku word for grasswren might be a handful - Djigirridjdjigirridj. It's onomatopoeic. the same term is used for Willie Wagtail. Name for Red-backed Fairy-wren, the only fairy-wren they know, is Dalgerowken, a name given to all songbirds with red and brown plumage (eg Crimson Finch). Finches are easier - the generic name is nin! Denise on 20/11/09 8:40 AM, Michael Tarburton at tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au wrote: > G'day B-aussers > > Yes a lovely ring to it: a bit like Badger for Wombats in Tassie & > Vic. and Opossum for the Brush-tailed Possum in NZ,. > > I wonder if we could accommodate some aboriginal names to replace > other foreign mismatches such as: Cuckoo-shrike & Shrike-thrush. > After all we did manage to shake off miss-matches such as warblers - > for gerygones, tailor bird for cisticola, & fairy-wren for wren. > mmn - Is that last one an improvement or would an aboriginal word be > more Australian? > > Cheers > > Mike > =================== > Michael Tarburton > tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au > =================== > > > > > On 19/11/2009, at 3:02 PM, Alistair McKeough wrote: > >> PS - no offense to Greg or anyone of course! Just my view that I think >> Jabiru has a wonderful ring to it. >> >> 2009/11/19 Alistair McKeough >> > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: mandmyoung AT optusnet.com.au Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:17:39 +1100 I'ld love to see more Aboriginal names for our birds here. Especially in those species where it has already been pointed out, that they are misnamed according to their vague European counterparts. Regards, Mark > Michael Tarburton wrote: > > G'day B-aussers > > Yes a lovely ring to it: a bit like Badger for Wombats in Tassie & > Vic. and Opossum for the Brush-tailed Possum in NZ,. > > I wonder if we could accommodate some aboriginal names to replace > other foreign mismatches such as: Cuckoo-shrike & Shrike-thrush. > After all we did manage to shake off miss-matches such as warblers - > for gerygones, tailor bird for cisticola, & fairy-wren for wren. > mmn - Is that last one an improvement or would an aboriginal word be > more Australian? > > Cheers > > Mike > =================== > Michael Tarburton > tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au > =================== > > > > > On 19/11/2009, at 3:02 PM, Alistair McKeough wrote: > > > PS - no offense to Greg or anyone of course! Just my view that I think > > Jabiru has a wonderful ring to it. > > > > 2009/11/19 Alistair McKeough > > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Re 'Jabiru' From: "Tony Russell" <pratincole AT esc.net.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:34:18 +1030 I know all that Carl, but I'm still calling it a Jabiru regardless. Just the same as sparrows are Spoggies, Babblers are Jumping Jennies, and Columbia livia are Feral Pigeons or roadhogs. So I'm stubborn, I can wear that. -----Original Message----- From: Carl Clifford [mailto:carlsclifford AT gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:19 PM To: Tony Russell Cc: 'Pat OMalley'; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years. People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and it was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got there first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you go blue in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the name yonks ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote: It's a JABIRU ! -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! Cheers Pat ==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =========== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Re 'Jabiru' From: "Tony Russell" <pratincole AT esc.net.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:41:29 +1030 Peter, it will get lost if it keeps Straya-ing all over the place. -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Peter Shute Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:52 AM To: Chris Ross; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' I guess they added "Australian" to Magpie to make it unique. I.e it might be wrong, but at least it's unique. That's a good example of a name that probably couldn't be changed, even the most pedantic among us would most likely ignore a new name for it. We could always go with Australian Jabiru, or Australian Black-necked Stork. If that's too much of a mouthful then we could just change the name of the country to Straya - two less syllables, and that's how a lot of us pronounce it anyway. Stray'n Jabiru, what do you think? Peter Shute -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Chris Ross Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 8:40 AM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' So what about Magpie?, officially Australian magpie, but shortened in Aussie fashion to Magpie, there's plenty of other birds around the place called Magpie. Chris Ross Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years. People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and it was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got there first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you go blue in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the name yonks ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote: It's a JABIRU ! -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: Re 'Jabiru' Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! Cheers Pat =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== ==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =========== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Michael Tarburton <tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:10:39 +1100 G'day B-aussers Yes a lovely ring to it: a bit like Badger for Wombats in Tassie & Vic. and Opossum for the Brush-tailed Possum in NZ,. I wonder if we could accommodate some aboriginal names to replace other foreign mismatches such as: Cuckoo-shrike & Shrike-thrush. After all we did manage to shake off miss-matches such as warblers - for gerygones, tailor bird for cisticola, & fairy-wren for wren. mmn - Is that last one an improvement or would an aboriginal word be more Australian? Cheers Mike =================== Michael Tarburton tarburton.m AT optusnet.com.au =================== On 19/11/2009, at 3:02 PM, Alistair McKeough wrote: > PS - no offense to Greg or anyone of course! Just my view that I think > Jabiru has a wonderful ring to it. > > 2009/11/19 Alistair McKeough > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Peter.Fuller AT callista.com.au Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:48:47 +1100 Regional names also preserve some subspecies identity too. I'd like to see all subspecies have their own name, to aid in conservational awareness. Lumping subspecies to Alistair McKeough Sent by: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au 20/11/2009 08:19 AM To Denise Goodfellow cc Birding Aus Subject Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome Hear, hear Denise. The scientific names serve the purpose of avoiding confusion for serious scientific endeavour. Let's please retain at least some words because they sound nice and add linguistic interest. Don't get me started on seeing Judy Dench described as an "actor". 2009/11/20 Denise Goodfellow > Djagana > > People will still continue to use regional names, and I don't see why not. > For instance, Owl-faced Finch for Double-barred. Indeed, I think it > important to keep such names, particularly the Indigenous ones. Kunwinjku > people have already stopped using a heap of terms for particular animals, > and so when I trained them for birdwatching tourism, I encouraged them to > just add the European terms to the names they already knew. > > There are already names common to each species - scientific names. And > generally, not are they only descriptive but often poetic! > Denise > > > > > on 20/11/09 5:58 AM, Greg & Val Clancy at gclancy AT tpg.com.au wrote: > > > Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for it. > There > > are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me Denise > > Goodfellow did I get it right?). > > > > A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's box > not > > worth opening. > > > > > > Greg Clancy > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carl Clifford" > > To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > > Cc: ; "birding aus" < > birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au> > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM > > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, > near > > Broome > > > > > >> HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ > when > >> it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. > After > >> all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he > >> described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have three > >> different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 > continents > >> called Jabiru. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Carl Clifford > >> > >> > >> On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: > >> > >> > >> Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! > >> > >> I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin > >> Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the > >> main issues raised one by one. > >> > >> One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name in > >> an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and > one > >> which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It > seems > >> that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because the > >> bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on the > >> black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name > >> provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' > >> could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New > >> Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate > >> species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the > >> Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some > concern > >> about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and > >> Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the name, > >> but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was > >> also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully > >> supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of > >> Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is > very > >> likely to happen in the future. > >> > >> "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of > the > >> 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. > >> Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it is > >> not only the neck that is 'satin'. > >> > >> "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for > >> places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are > great > >> because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous > >> names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be selected? > >> It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the > >> common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. > It > >> would be different if in the early European history of this continent > an > >> indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with > the > >> Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name > >> to our stork. > >> > >> > >> Greg Clancy > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: > >> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > >> Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" > >> >>> > >> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM > >> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier > >> peninsula, near Broome > >> > >> > >>> > >>> G'day Gret, > >>> > >>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind the > >>> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it > certainly > >>> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. > >>> > >>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if this > >>> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process > >>> associated with how names are decided. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Mark > >>> > >>> > >> > >> =============================== > >> www.birding-aus.org > >> birding-aus.blogspot.com > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > >> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > >> =============================== > >> > >> > >> > > > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Fw: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Peter.Fuller AT callista.com.au Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:51:21 +1100 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Regional names also preserve some subspecies identity too. I'd like to see all subspecies have their own name, to aid in conservational awareness. Lumping subspecies together can just skew statistical information and conservational status. Alistair McKeough Sent by: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au 20/11/2009 08:19 AM To Denise Goodfellow cc Birding Aus Subject Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome Hear, hear Denise. The scientific names serve the purpose of avoiding confusion for serious scientific endeavour. Let's please retain at least some words because they sound nice and add linguistic interest. Don't get me started on seeing Judy Dench described as an "actor". 2009/11/20 Denise Goodfellow > Djagana > > People will still continue to use regional names, and I don't see why not. > For instance, Owl-faced Finch for Double-barred. Indeed, I think it > important to keep such names, particularly the Indigenous ones. Kunwinjku > people have already stopped using a heap of terms for particular animals, > and so when I trained them for birdwatching tourism, I encouraged them to > just add the European terms to the names they already knew. > > There are already names common to each species - scientific names. And > generally, not are they only descriptive but often poetic! > Denise > > > > > on 20/11/09 5:58 AM, Greg & Val Clancy at gclancy AT tpg.com.au wrote: > > > Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for it. > There > > are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me Denise > > Goodfellow did I get it right?). > > > > A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's box > not > > worth opening. > > > > > > Greg Clancy > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carl Clifford" > > To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > > Cc: ; "birding aus" < > birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au> > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM > > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, > near > > Broome > > > > > >> HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ > when > >> it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. > After > >> all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he > >> described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have three > >> different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 > continents > >> called Jabiru. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Carl Clifford > >> > >> > >> On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: > >> > >> > >> Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! > >> > >> I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin > >> Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the > >> main issues raised one by one. > >> > >> One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name in > >> an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and > one > >> which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It > seems > >> that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because the > >> bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on the > >> black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name > >> provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' > >> could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New > >> Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate > >> species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the > >> Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some > concern > >> about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and > >> Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the name, > >> but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was > >> also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully > >> supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of > >> Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is > very > >> likely to happen in the future. > >> > >> "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of > the > >> 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. > >> Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it is > >> not only the neck that is 'satin'. > >> > >> "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for > >> places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are > great > >> because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous > >> names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be selected? > >> It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the > >> common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. > It > >> would be different if in the early European history of this continent > an > >> indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with > the > >> Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name > >> to our stork. > >> > >> > >> Greg Clancy > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: > >> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > >> Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" > >> >>> > >> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM > >> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier > >> peninsula, near Broome > >> > >> > >>> > >>> G'day Gret, > >>> > >>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind the > >>> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it > certainly > >>> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. > >>> > >>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if this > >>> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process > >>> associated with how names are decided. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Mark > >>> > >>> > >> > >> =============================== > >> www.birding-aus.org > >> birding-aus.blogspot.com > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > >> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > >> =============================== > >> > >> > >> > > > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Denise Goodfellow <goodfellow AT bigpond.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:48:52 +0930 Great reply, Alistair. These names all add a richness to the language. We would all be the poorer if they were lost. Also, as Nicholas Haas has pointed out, we've already got birds with names from elsewhere. And what about bandicoot - originally the name of an Indian rodent? Denise on 20/11/09 6:48 AM, Alistair McKeough at alistair.mckeough AT gmail.com wrote: > Hear, hear Denise. The scientific names serve the purpose of avoiding > confusion for serious scientific endeavour. Let's please retain at least > some words because they sound nice and add linguistic interest. > > Don't get me started on seeing Judy Dench described as an "actor". > > 2009/11/20 Denise Goodfellow > >> Djagana >> >> People will still continue to use regional names, and I don't see why not. >> For instance, Owl-faced Finch for Double-barred. Indeed, I think it >> important to keep such names, particularly the Indigenous ones. Kunwinjku >> people have already stopped using a heap of terms for particular animals, >> and so when I trained them for birdwatching tourism, I encouraged them to >> just add the European terms to the names they already knew. >> >> There are already names common to each species - scientific names. And >> generally, not are they only descriptive but often poetic! >> Denise >> >> >> >> >> on 20/11/09 5:58 AM, Greg & Val Clancy at gclancy AT tpg.com.au wrote: >> >>> Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for it. >> There >>> are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me Denise >>> Goodfellow did I get it right?). >>> >>> A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's box >> not >>> worth opening. >>> >>> >>> Greg Clancy >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Carl Clifford" >>> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" >>> Cc: ; "birding aus" < >> birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au> >>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, >> near >>> Broome >>> >>> >>>> HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ >> when >>>> it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. >> After >>>> all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he >>>> described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have three >>>> different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 >> continents >>>> called Jabiru. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Carl Clifford >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! >>>> >>>> I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin >>>> Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the >>>> main issues raised one by one. >>>> >>>> One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name in >>>> an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and >> one >>>> which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It >> seems >>>> that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because the >>>> bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on the >>>> black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name >>>> provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' >>>> could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New >>>> Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate >>>> species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the >>>> Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some >> concern >>>> about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and >>>> Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the name, >>>> but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was >>>> also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully >>>> supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of >>>> Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is >> very >>>> likely to happen in the future. >>>> >>>> "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of >> the >>>> 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. >>>> Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it is >>>> not only the neck that is 'satin'. >>>> >>>> "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for >>>> places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are >> great >>>> because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous >>>> names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be selected? >>>> It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the >>>> common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. >> It >>>> would be different if in the early European history of this continent >> an >>>> indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with >> the >>>> Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name >>>> to our stork. >>>> >>>> >>>> Greg Clancy >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>>> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" >>>> Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier >>>> peninsula, near Broome >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> G'day Gret, >>>>> >>>>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind the >>>>> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it >> certainly >>>>> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. >>>>> >>>>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if this >>>>> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process >>>>> associated with how names are decided. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== >> > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Jabiru just isn't ours to take From: "Anthony Molyneux" <desertantman AT bigpond.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:22:37 +0930 At the end of the day, it is a Portugese word that we adopted. However it is time to take on our own version; but if you wish call it something else then so be it. Can you imagine how boring life would be if we all did the same things everyday. Difference creates debate; enjoy it, embrace it and keep your head out of the sand ............... because you miss the Night Parrot flying by. Ant =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Re 'Jabiru' From: Peter Shute <pshute AT nuw.org.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:21:46 +1100 I guess they added "Australian" to Magpie to make it unique. I.e it might be wrong, but at least it's unique. That's a good example of a name that probably couldn't be changed, even the most pedantic among us would most likely ignore a new name for it. We could always go with Australian Jabiru, or Australian Black-necked Stork. If that's too much of a mouthful then we could just change the name of the country to Straya - two less syllables, and that's how a lot of us pronounce it anyway. Stray'n Jabiru, what do you think? Peter Shute -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Chris Ross Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 8:40 AM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' So what about Magpie?, officially Australian magpie, but shortened in Aussie fashion to Magpie, there's plenty of other birds around the place called Magpie. Chris Ross Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years. People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and it was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got there first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you go blue in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the name yonks ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote: It's a JABIRU ! -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: Re 'Jabiru' Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! Cheers Pat =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Finches: maybe in need of a common name From: Alan McBride <amcbride1 AT me.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:11:20 +1100 Here's a little more on the "new finches" from the Galapagos Islands... http://tinyurl.com/ylrudzu Best Alan ******************************************************************************* Alan McBride, MBO. Photojournalist | Traveller | Writer | Birding Guide + Member: International Travel Writers & Photographers Alliance American Writers & Artists Inc. Travelwriters . com http://web.me.com/amcbride1 http://www.worldreviewer.com/member/alanmcbride/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/alanmcbride http://www.twitter.com/alanmcbride Good planets are hard to find; until we do, please, be green and read from the screen Tel: + 61 419 414 860 Fax: + 61 2 9973 2306 Skype: mcbird101 P O Box 190 | Newport Beach | NSW 2106 | Australia This e-mail and any files transmitted with it, are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. This e-mail is also subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or transmitted without the prior written consent of the copyright owner. *********************************************************************************** =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Nikolas Haass <nhaass AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:38:21 -0800 (PST) Denise, I agree with keeping local names. But I disagree, with scientific names being common to each species. In times of the phylogenetic species concept there have been so many changes on species level but even on genus and family level, that English names appear to be more stable than scientific names! Nikolas ---------------- Nikolas Haass nhaass AT yahoo.com Sydney, NSW ----- Original Message ---- From: Denise Goodfellow To: Greg ; Carl Clifford Cc: Birding Aus Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 7:45:34 AM Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome Djagana People will still continue to use regional names, and I don't see why not. For instance, Owl-faced Finch for Double-barred. Indeed, I think it important to keep such names, particularly the Indigenous ones. Kunwinjku people have already stopped using a heap of terms for particular animals, and so when I trained them for birdwatching tourism, I encouraged them to just add the European terms to the names they already knew. There are already names common to each species - scientific names. And generally, not are they only descriptive but often poetic! Denise on 20/11/09 5:58 AM, Greg & Val Clancy at gclancy AT tpg.com.au wrote: > Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for it. There > are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me Denise > Goodfellow did I get it right?). > > A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's box not > worth opening. > > > Greg Clancy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Clifford" > To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > Cc: ; "birding aus" > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near > Broome > > >> HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ when >> it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. After >> all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he >> described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have three >> different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 continents >> called Jabiru. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Carl Clifford >> >> >> On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: >> >> >> Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! >> >> I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin >> Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the >> main issues raised one by one. >> >> One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name in >> an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and one >> which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It seems >> that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because the >> bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on the >> black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name >> provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' >> could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New >> Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate >> species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the >> Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some concern >> about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and >> Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the name, >> but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was >> also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully >> supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of >> Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is very >> likely to happen in the future. >> >> "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of the >> 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. >> Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it is >> not only the neck that is 'satin'. >> >> "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for >> places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are great >> because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous >> names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be selected? >> It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the >> common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. It >> would be different if in the early European history of this continent an >> indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with the >> Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name >> to our stork. >> >> >> Greg Clancy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" >> Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM >> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier >> peninsula, near Broome >> >> >>> >>> G'day Gret, >>> >>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind the >>> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it certainly >>> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. >>> >>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if this >>> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process >>> associated with how names are decided. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Mark >>> >>> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== >> >> >> > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re 'Jabiru' From: Chris Ross <chrisx2 AT ihug.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:40:06 +1100 So what about Magpie?, officially Australian magpie, but shortened in Aussie fashion to Magpie, there's plenty of other birds around the place called Magpie. Chris Ross Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years. People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and it was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got there first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you go blue in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the name yonks ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote: It's a JABIRU ! -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: Re 'Jabiru' Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! Cheers Pat =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Alistair McKeough <alistair.mckeough AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:18:44 +1100 Hear, hear Denise. The scientific names serve the purpose of avoiding confusion for serious scientific endeavour. Let's please retain at least some words because they sound nice and add linguistic interest. Don't get me started on seeing Judy Dench described as an "actor". 2009/11/20 Denise Goodfellow > Djagana > > People will still continue to use regional names, and I don't see why not. > For instance, Owl-faced Finch for Double-barred. Indeed, I think it > important to keep such names, particularly the Indigenous ones. Kunwinjku > people have already stopped using a heap of terms for particular animals, > and so when I trained them for birdwatching tourism, I encouraged them to > just add the European terms to the names they already knew. > > There are already names common to each species - scientific names. And > generally, not are they only descriptive but often poetic! > Denise > > > > > on 20/11/09 5:58 AM, Greg & Val Clancy at gclancy AT tpg.com.au wrote: > > > Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for it. > There > > are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me Denise > > Goodfellow did I get it right?). > > > > A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's box > not > > worth opening. > > > > > > Greg Clancy > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carl Clifford" > > To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > > Cc: ; "birding aus" < > birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au> > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM > > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, > near > > Broome > > > > > >> HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ > when > >> it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. > After > >> all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he > >> described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have three > >> different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 > continents > >> called Jabiru. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Carl Clifford > >> > >> > >> On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: > >> > >> > >> Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! > >> > >> I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin > >> Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the > >> main issues raised one by one. > >> > >> One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name in > >> an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and > one > >> which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It > seems > >> that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because the > >> bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on the > >> black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name > >> provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' > >> could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New > >> Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate > >> species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the > >> Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some > concern > >> about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and > >> Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the name, > >> but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was > >> also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully > >> supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of > >> Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is > very > >> likely to happen in the future. > >> > >> "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of > the > >> 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. > >> Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it is > >> not only the neck that is 'satin'. > >> > >> "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for > >> places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are > great > >> because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous > >> names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be selected? > >> It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the > >> common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. > It > >> would be different if in the early European history of this continent > an > >> indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with > the > >> Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name > >> to our stork. > >> > >> > >> Greg Clancy > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: > >> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > >> Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" > >> >>> > >> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM > >> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier > >> peninsula, near Broome > >> > >> > >>> > >>> G'day Gret, > >>> > >>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind the > >>> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it > certainly > >>> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. > >>> > >>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if this > >>> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process > >>> associated with how names are decided. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Mark > >>> > >>> > >> > >> =============================== > >> www.birding-aus.org > >> birding-aus.blogspot.com > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > >> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > >> =============================== > >> > >> > >> > > > > =============================== > > www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > =============================== > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Denise Goodfellow <goodfellow AT bigpond.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:15:34 +0930 Djagana People will still continue to use regional names, and I don't see why not. For instance, Owl-faced Finch for Double-barred. Indeed, I think it important to keep such names, particularly the Indigenous ones. Kunwinjku people have already stopped using a heap of terms for particular animals, and so when I trained them for birdwatching tourism, I encouraged them to just add the European terms to the names they already knew. There are already names common to each species - scientific names. And generally, not are they only descriptive but often poetic! Denise on 20/11/09 5:58 AM, Greg & Val Clancy at gclancy AT tpg.com.au wrote: > Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for it. There > are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me Denise > Goodfellow did I get it right?). > > A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's box not > worth opening. > > > Greg Clancy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Clifford" > To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > Cc: ; "birding aus" > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near > Broome > > >> HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ when >> it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. After >> all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he >> described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have three >> different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 continents >> called Jabiru. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Carl Clifford >> >> >> On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: >> >> >> Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! >> >> I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin >> Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the >> main issues raised one by one. >> >> One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name in >> an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and one >> which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It seems >> that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because the >> bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on the >> black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name >> provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' >> could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New >> Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate >> species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the >> Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some concern >> about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and >> Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the name, >> but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was >> also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully >> supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of >> Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is very >> likely to happen in the future. >> >> "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of the >> 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. >> Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it is >> not only the neck that is 'satin'. >> >> "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for >> places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are great >> because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous >> names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be selected? >> It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the >> common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. It >> would be different if in the early European history of this continent an >> indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with the >> Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name >> to our stork. >> >> >> Greg Clancy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: "Greg & Val Clancy" >> Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM >> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier >> peninsula, near Broome >> >> >>> >>> G'day Gret, >>> >>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind the >>> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it certainly >>> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. >>> >>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if this >>> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process >>> associated with how names are decided. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Mark >>> >>> >> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >> unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== >> >> >> > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: New name for koels From: Michael Atzeni <matzeni AT westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:51:26 +0800 (WST) Was talking to long-time local farmer on Sunday and pointed out a Koel and how they're called storm-birds, to which he replied: "Yeah, Politician Bird - promise you everything and deliver nothing." :-) A newie on me, so asked him how long they'd been called that around here and he said that's what a friend at nearby Murphys Creek decided to call them a couple of weeks ago. If he came up with it himself, he's brilliant! And the way things are going, I think it will stick! Cheers Michael Atzeni Upper Lockyer SEQ =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re 'English Australian bird names' From: Nikolas Haass <nhaass AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:12:38 -0800 (PST) Keep in mind that a large number of English bird names both in Australia and American are misnomers, because they were named by their superficial resemblance to European birds more familiar to the British people colonizing other continents. Brushturkeys aren't turkeys, WW Choughs aren't choughs, Aussie Magpies aren't magpies, Old World Warblers, New World Warblers and Gerygones are unrelated taxonomic groups, robins aren't robins, chats aren't chats, flycatchers aren't flycatchers, treecreepers aren't treecreepers, wrens aren't wrens, songlarks aren't larks (but Old World Warblers!)... Does it matter? Maybe not. But it can get quite complicated when you guide people from other continents who quite often get very confused... Cheers, Nikolas ---------------- Nikolas Haass nhaass AT yahoo.com Sydney, NSW ----- Original Message ---- From: Carl Clifford To: Tony Russell Cc: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au; Pat OMalley Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 11:48:41 PM Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years. People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and it was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got there first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you go blue in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the name yonks ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote: It's a JABIRU ! -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! Cheers Pat ==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =========== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list,send the message: unsubscribe(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: FW: Visiting birdwatchers From: "BA Vic Group" <bavicgroup AT live.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:07:50 +1100 I received this request from Gianna Kalc to the Birds Australia Victoria Group email address. If you feel you can help, please reply directly to Gianna. Ruth Woodrow Secretary Birds Australia Victoria Group From: Gianna Kalc [mailto:gkalc AT optusnet.com.au] Sent: Monday, 16 November 2009 10:34 PM To: bavic AT birdsaustralia.com.au Subject: Visiting birdwatchers Dear BA - Victoria committee members I was wondering if you could pass on my request to other BA Victoria members in the hope that someone may be able to help out. I was recently camped at Gluepot Reserve where I met a couple of avid birdwatchers from Arizona - Alicia and Dieter Kamm. They will be travelling through to Melbourne to drop off their hire van in December and are very keen to visit the Western Treatment Plant at Werribee on their way through. I have a birdwatching permit for the farm myself but their schedule means that they would be here on a week day and I work full time. I was wondering if any other members would be interested/able to accompany Alicia and Dieter to the farm. They will only be passing through briefly and were hoping someone might be available on either Thursday 3rd or Friday 4th December. I would appreciate it if this request could be circulated or if you could let me know if there is some other way I could find someone to help out. Many thanks in advance. Gianna Kalc =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Top day in the Upper Hunter From: Phil Hansbro <philip.hansbro AT newcastle.edu.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:52:21 +1100 Hi All Sorry for the late post but been flat out. Had a top day in the upper Hunter last Sunday 15th of Nov. Travelled from Hunter Valley Gardens to GRNP and back. One of the best spots was at the Southern end of the clearing to the east side of Wollar road in GRNP. Right at the S end is a creek and there is some water 50 M down. This was an excellent spot for watching birds coming in to drink. Had 4 species of finch and many honeyeaters there - 13 species for the day. Emu - 2 S end of clearing, GRNP Common Bronzewing - 2 GRNP Peaceful Dove - 1 GRNP Black-eared Cuckoo - 2 ads heard calling at the GRNP sign at the N end and 1 juvenile associating with Speckled Warblers at the S edge of the clearing on E side. Rainbow Bee-eater - 2 heard at Sandy Hollow Chestnut-rumped Heathwren - 1 at the GRNP sign at the N end Western Gerygone - 6 GRNP Striped Honeyeater - 4 in Sandy Hollow and 6 in GRNP Spiny-cheeked Honeyeater - now common in the Upper Hunter, 4 Sandy Hollow, others along the roads and 3 at GRNP, have even colonised HV gardens in the E White-eared Honeyeater - 1 at waterhole Yellow-tufted 10+ at waterhole Fuscous Honeyeater - 6 GRNP including at waterhole Brown-headed Honeyeater - 3 at waterhole Black-chinned Honeyeater - 1 at waterhole Black Honeyeater - 3 Sandy Hollow Jacky Winter - 10 GRNP Grey-crowned Babbler - 3 Sandy Hollow Varied Sittella - just 1 GRNP Crested Shrike-Tit - 2 calling constantly at waterhole White-bellied Cuckoo-Shrike - 2 GRNP including 1 at waterhole Cicadabird - 1 heard GRNP White-winged Triller - 2 at waterhole White-winged Chough - several groups Double-barred Finch - a few groups including at waterhole Plum-headed Finch - 2 at waterhole Diamond Firetail - 2 at waterhole Also 2 Musk Lorikeets outside my house in Newcastle on the 12th Nov. Phil Hansbro =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: L&L Knight <l.knight AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:28:56 +1000 I think that Brolga sets a precedent for an indigenous name that does not refer to the wider group [crane]. On 19/11/2009, at 9:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: > > Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! > > I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin > Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address > the main issues raised one by one. > > One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name > in an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird > and one which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' > people. It seems that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to > Satin is because the bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its > head and neck and on the black feathering of the wings and tail. > Including 'stork' in the name provides some information on what type > of bird it really is. "Jabiru' could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal > etc. As the Australian and New Guinean race was going to be split > from the Asian race as separate species a common name was needed. I > recommended 'Satin Stork' to the Birds Australia Common Names > Committee and it was accepted. Some concern about its acceptance > was expressed by members of the Research and Scientific Committee > however, not based on the suitability of the name, but on concerns > that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was also stated > that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully > supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition > of Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it > is very likely to happen in the future. > > "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments > of the 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and > clumsy. Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In > addition it is not only the neck that is 'satin'. > > "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name > for places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin > are great because they refer to only one place each. There are many > indigenous names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate > one be selected? It is far better to document the indigenous names > separately from the common name. In that way all local names are > given equal prominence. It would be different if in the early > European history of this continent an indigenous name was applied > and it became commonly used, such as with the Galah. Instead early > settlers applied a South American indigenous name to our stork. > > > Greg Clancy > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" > > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier > peninsula, near Broome > > >> >> G'day Gret, >> >> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind >> the name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it >> certainly sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. >> >> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if >> this is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the >> process associated with how names are decided. >> >> Regards, >> Mark >> >> > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: "Greg & Val Clancy" <gclancy AT tpg.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:28:04 +1100 Why not use 'Barri-enna'? Because it is the Sydney area name for it. There are many other suitable indigenous names such as Djanna (help me Denise Goodfellow did I get it right?). A nice thought to use an indigenous name but it may be a Pandora's box not worth opening. Greg Clancy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Clifford" To: "Greg & Val Clancy" Cc: ; "birding aus" Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:49 AM Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome > HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ when > it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. After > all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he > described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have three > different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 continents > called Jabiru. > > Cheers, > > Carl Clifford > > > On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: > > > Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! > > I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin > Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the > main issues raised one by one. > > One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name in > an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and one > which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It seems > that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because the > bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on the > black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name > provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' > could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New > Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate > species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the > Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some concern > about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and > Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the name, > but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was > also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully > supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of > Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is very > likely to happen in the future. > > "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of the > 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. > Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it is > not only the neck that is 'satin'. > > "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for > places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are great > because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous > names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be selected? > It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the > common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. It > would be different if in the early European history of this continent an > indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with the > Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name > to our stork. > > > Greg Clancy > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "Greg & Val Clancy" > Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" > > > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier > peninsula, near Broome > > >> >> G'day Gret, >> >> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind the >> name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it certainly >> sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. >> >> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if this >> is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process >> associated with how names are decided. >> >> Regards, >> Mark >> >> > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: > unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:49:54 +1100 HANZAB gives the Aboriginal name as Barri-enna, why not use that if/ when it is split? It is a bit hard to argue against an indigenous name. After all it was good enough for Martin Lichtenstein to use one when he described Jabiru mycteria, in 1819. It seems a bit crazy to have three different species of stork, from three different genera, on 3 continents called Jabiru. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 19/11/2009, at 10:43 PM, Greg & Val Clancy wrote: Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the main issues raised one by one. One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name in an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and one which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It seems that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because the bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on the black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some concern about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the name, but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is very likely to happen in the future. "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of the 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it is not only the neck that is 'satin'. "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are great because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be selected? It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. It would be different if in the early European history of this continent an indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with the Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name to our stork. Greg Clancy ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Greg & Val Clancy" Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome > > G'day Gret, > > That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind > the name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it > certainly sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. > > How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if > this is common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process > associated with how names are decided. > > Regards, > Mark > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: More of this Twitter nonsense From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:56:34 +1100 Sean, just don't go the way of Roland Burton Hedley III. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 19/11/2009, at 11:48 PM, Sean Dooley wrote: G'day all, Continuing on with my experiments in Twitterland, I am off on a tri pto North Queensland, testing out the new birdwatching trails that some of our favourite birding people have set up there. I thought I would continue to keep my Twitter account going to fill people in on how I am going and what I am seeing. It is as much an experiment for me to work out what exactly the use of Twitter is. So far I have had some good feedback, particularly about the Twitchathon Twitter. (It makes the Thon much more of a spectator sport.) It might get a bit boring just getting updates from what is essentially somebody's birding holiday but for anyone interested you can check it out at http://twitter.com/Twitchathon where you can just have a look or subscribe to get the feeds. Or whatever they are called. Perhaps I can generate some interest in my quest to chase another pointless birding milestone- breaking my best species total in a single month. MY personal best was 362 in November 2002 when I was doing the Big Twitch. So far this month with the Vic Twitchathon and Leeton Birdfair, I am at 232 so only another 130 to go! Sure it is not nearly as important as yet another interminable debate over the nomenclature of storks but what can I say, I'm shallow. Sean =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re 'Jabiru' From: Paul Taylor <birder AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:11:54 +1100 As the old joke goes: "Call it what you like! It doesn't matter, because it won't come anyway//." A compromise might be to call it a "Jabaroo". It's distinct from the South American "Jabiru", but close enough phonetically to satisfy those that don't like "Black-necked Stork." -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Paul Taylor Veni, vidi, tici - birder AT ozemail.com.au I came, I saw, I ticked. =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re 'Jabiru' From: Carl Clifford <carlsclifford AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:48:41 +1100 Sorry Tony, it's not. We were beaten to the punch by hundreds of years. People were calling a bird in S. America "Jabiru" hundreds if not thousands of years before we European blow-ins arrived in Australia and it was picked up by Europeans in S America when Australia was a blank on the map. I prefer Jabiru myself, but I accept the fact that someone got there first, and no amount of tanties and holding your breath till you go blue in the face will change it. Someone made a stuff up with the name yonks ago, and I don't see why it should be perpetuated. Cheers, Carl Clifford On 19/11/2009, at 10:59 PM, Tony Russell wrote: It's a JABIRU ! -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! Cheers Pat ==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =========== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: More of this Twitter nonsense From: "Sean Dooley" <sdooley AT bigpond.net.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:48:42 +1100 G'day all, Continuing on with my experiments in Twitterland, I am off on a tri pto North Queensland, testing out the new birdwatching trails that some of our favourite birding people have set up there. I thought I would continue to keep my Twitter account going to fill people in on how I am going and what I am seeing. It is as much an experiment for me to work out what exactly the use of Twitter is. So far I have had some good feedback, particularly about the Twitchathon Twitter. (It makes the Thon much more of a spectator sport.) It might get a bit boring just getting updates from what is essentially somebody's birding holiday but for anyone interested you can check it out at http://twitter.com/Twitchathon where you can just have a look or subscribe to get the feeds. Or whatever they are called. Perhaps I can generate some interest in my quest to chase another pointless birding milestone- breaking my best species total in a single month. MY personal best was 362 in November 2002 when I was doing the Big Twitch. So far this month with the Vic Twitchathon and Leeton Birdfair, I am at 232 so only another 130 to go! Sure it is not nearly as important as yet another interminable debate over the nomenclature of storks but what can I say, I'm shallow. Sean =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Re 'Jabiru' From: "Tony Russell" <pratincole AT esc.net.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:29:19 +1030 It's a JABIRU ! -----Original Message----- From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of Pat OMalley Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:55 PM To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru' Before folk get too patriotic, it's worth remembering that the Black Necked Stork is found pretty much across southern Asia. It may be a bit presumptuous to assume we have naming rights! Cheers Pat ==========www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =========== =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Round Hill/Nombinnie Trip Report 15-18 Nov 2009 - PART 1 From: David Stowe <davidstowe AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:55:45 +1100 Firstly I want to thank the great people on birding-aus for all their helpful replies to my RFI. Special mention to Nevil Lazarus, Martin Cachard, John Rawsthorne, Nick Leseberg, Troy Mutton, Lorna Mee, Frank Antram for their help! It was with great excitement that Grant Brosie, Nick Livanos and I left from Sydney in the early hours of Sunday morning heading for Lake Cargelligo where we had booked a few nights in a cabin at the Lakeview Caravan Park. Our aim was to travel via Cowra on the way out to look for Superb Parrots and return home via Forbes and Gum Swamp. We were ecstatic when a short way before Cowra we saw our first Superbs - at least 5-6 birds in the gums on the side of the highway. We managed great views and photos before heading off. Only a few km later we saw more birds in a dead tree in a paddock just off the road and spent the next hour photographing from the car as numerous birds fought over a nesting hole! With the sun behind us and 10-15 birds around it was magic! We then saw a further 4-5 birds again only another few km down the road - all before Cowra and then none seen again for the rest of the trip. We continued on to Lake Cargelligo with not much else to report besides a Brown Songlark that we had been searching for and arrived to be greeted with 40 degree heat and a hot westerly blowing. After a brief rest in the air-conditioned cabin (struggling under the strain) we set out to Lake Cargelligo STW where the highlight was Orange Chat plus White-fronted chat. Other birds among others were White-winged & Varigated Fairy-wrens, Black-tailed Native Hens, Shelduck, Spotted Crake, Blue Bonnet etc. After the Orange Chats flew into a nearby paddock on private property, we went in search of them from the road on the other side where we had more views but still very distant. We then headed out for a short drive along the road to the airport as the light was fading and managed to find some semi-obliging Blue-Bonnets feeding in the grass. Monday morning we were up early to get out to Nombinnie before the sun rose although were probably still a little late. our first stop was the track off the NW corner of the wheat field. Our first bird of the day was a pair of Southern Scrub-Robin who hopped merrily up to us within a few metres making their high pitched piercing whistle! An awesome start to the day and a tick for Grant & Nick. At the end of this track we had our first view of Shy Heathwren (tick for me!) and Inland Thornbills but no sign of Red-lored or Gilberts Whistler. We then walked south inside the edge of the wheatfield and came across a small party of Chestnut Quail-Thrush (tick for everyone!) plus Red- capped Robins and a young Grey-fronted Honeyeater plus Spendid fairy- wrens. Still no luck with the Whistlers except the annoyingly common Rufous! By now it was already very hot and the westerly wind was picking up again. Flies were pretty ordinary and groups of birds were found sheltering together at the shaded base of trees on the edge of the road. It was at such a site along the east-west section of road past the wheat field that we stumbled on our first and only Gilberts Whistler! To say that we were excited is an understatement and we were able to get great views and photos. Shy Heathwrens were also found here as were the seemingly common Scrub- Robins! We went to another spot further west where Martin Cachard had reported all the honeyeaters recently and while we found some Eremophila still flowering the diversity was much lower with Grey-fronted and Spiny- cheeked HE plus Brown-headed only. It did look like some were about to start flowering so it may be a good spot again soon?? Also had Mulga and Red-rumped Parrots. By 1pm we were dripping in sweat and questioning our sanity so returned to our cabin recluse for a rest for a couple of hours before heading back out to the Tanks area. On the way out we slowed down for some road kill on the road and a glimpse of a bird running off the side into the bush which we had thoughts about being a Malleefowl only to realise that feeding on the road kill was actually the biggest sand coloured Goanna you've ever seen! We watched him walk off the road and followed into the bush to find a water trough and great views of a Mallee Ringneck perched beautifully for photos. At a small waterhole next to the railway intersection we watched 8 plus Common Bronzewings coming in to drink. The tanks area was pretty quiet with flies being by far the most common species! Blue-bonnets, Ringnecks and Mulgas were around plus Striped and Spiny-cheeked HE. As the sun went down we stopped on side of the road at the top of Round Hill and waited for dusk and the chance of Spotted Nightjar. We played a tape and sure enough over flew a gorgeous bird with big white wing spots - a bogey bird finally off my list!! A slow drive home in the dark saw us get back at 10pm after being up since 5. But all the flies and heat and tiredness were worth it with 3 new birds for Grant and Nick and 4 for me helping me just over 550. No help needed getting to sleep especially with the alarms set for 4:30 the next morning for another day in the magical mallee! (to be continued.......) Cheers David Stowe =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Re: One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome From: "Greg & Val Clancy" <gclancy AT tpg.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:43:31 +1100 Well my comments certainly have sparked up some discussion - great!! I have received a number of responses to my post re. the name Satin Stork, some direct to my personal email address so I will address the main issues raised one by one. One person asked 'how was the name arrived at?' - I made up the name in an attempt to have a name that was truly appropriate for our bird and one which would, hopefully, win over the die-hard 'Jabiru' people. It seems that I have lost out with Tony!! The reference to Satin is because the bird has a beautiful satin-like sheen over its head and neck and on the black feathering of the wings and tail. Including 'stork' in the name provides some information on what type of bird it really is. "Jabiru' could be a plant, a lizard, a mammal etc. As the Australian and New Guinean race was going to be split from the Asian race as separate species a common name was needed. I recommended 'Satin Stork' to the Birds Australia Common Names Committee and it was accepted. Some concern about its acceptance was expressed by members of the Research and Scientific Committee however, not based on the suitability of the name, but on concerns that the 'Jabiru' brigade would not accept it. It was also stated that if it gained popular acceptance then it would be fully supported. The predicted split did not happen in the 2008 edition of Christidis and Boles as they wanted more genetic evidence but it is very likely to happen in the future. "Why not Satin-necked Stork?" - because one of the main arguments of the 'Jabiru' people is that "Black-necked Stork' is too long and clumsy. Satin-necked Stork would not address this criticism. In addition it is not only the neck that is 'satin'. "Why not an indigenous name?". I am very keen on indigenous name for places as they usually only have one name. Uluru and Wollumbin are great because they refer to only one place each. There are many indigenous names for the Stork so how would the most appropriate one be selected? It is far better to document the indigenous names separately from the common name. In that way all local names are given equal prominence. It would be different if in the early European history of this continent an indigenous name was applied and it became commonly used, such as with the Galah. Instead early settlers applied a South American indigenous name to our stork. Greg Clancy ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Greg & Val Clancy" Cc: "Gary Wright" ; "birding aus" Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier peninsula, near Broome > > G'day Gret, > > That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind the > name Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it certainly > sounds like it could be an Aboriginal word. > > How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if this is > common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process associated > with how names are decided. > > Regards, > Mark > > >> =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Re: Indigenous names for the Jabiru / BNS From: L&L Knight <l.knight AT optusnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:46:32 +1000 It matters not when we are discussing icons in the privacy of our backyards, Jeff. Regards, Laurie. On 19/11/2009, at 2:23 PM, Jeff Davies wrote: > G'day Laurie, > > What are the distinguishing features between the Indian and Australian > birds. > > Cheers Jeff. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au > [mailto:birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of L&L Knight > Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 3:11 PM > To: Birding Aus > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Indigenous names for the Jabiru / BNS > > I would like to see a list of indigenous names that the various > Aboriginal groups had for the Aussie Stork. It is quite possible that > one of them would fit the bill of providing a suitably iconic name for > our attractive wetland overseer. > > Regards, Laurie. > > > On 19/11/2009, at 2:01 PM, Alistair McKeough wrote: > >> Yes, it has. >> >> In brief and from memory, Jabiru is a South American name and there >> is >> another bird bearing that nomenclature so the international types >> want it >> changed. >> >> I think Jabiru is a wonderful name and the lament the ridiculous >> suggestion >> that any purported confusion with some overseas species nobody in >> Australia >> gives a hoot about is sufficient reason to change it. >> >> Pee Wee. Jabiru. Wonderful stuff and nomenclature I will personally >> continue >> to use. >> >> >> >> 2009/11/19 Peter Shute >> >>> I think this has been discussed here several times before, so a >>> search for >>> jabiru and satin in the archives might tell you all there is to >>> know. >>> >>> Peter Shute >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au [mailto: >>> birding-aus-bounces AT vicnet.net.au] On Behalf Of > mandmyoung AT optusnet.com.au >>> Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 2:21 PM >>> To: Greg & Val Clancy >>> Cc: birding aus >>> Subject: Re: Re: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier >>> peninsula, >>> near Broome >>> >>> >>> G'day Gret, >>> >>> That's pretty interesting. I've not known about the origins behind >>> the name >>> Jabiru. I've always assumed it was an Aboriginal name, it certainly >>> sounds >>> like it could be an Aboriginal word. >>> >>> How was the proposed new name of Satin Stork arrived at? Sorry if >>> this is >>> common knowledge, but I'm not very up to date on the process >>> associated with >>> how names are decided. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Mark >>> >>> >>>> Greg & Val Clancy wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Gary, >>>> >>>> I read you post with interest and noted that you hate using the >>>> name >>>> 'Black-necked Stork'. The neck is actually black, with a blue- >>>> green >>>> sheen, and although probably not the most appropriate name for the >>>> species it has been in use in Asia and Australia since at least the >>>> late 1880's. The bird books that I used when starting out birding >>>> many years back all called it "Jabiru' and that is what I knew it >>>> as >>>> for many years. Having recently completed my PhD studies on the >>>> species I am now a strong advocate for not calling it "Jabiru'. >>>> The >>>> reasons for this are: it is not a Jabiru - a Jabiru is a South >>>> American stork species which has only a few similarities to our >>>> elegant bird; 'Jabiru' is a Tupi-Guarani name for the species which >>>> means 'swollen neck', referring to its habit of inflating its bald >>>> neck pouch, very different to our slender necked species; the south >>>> American bird has precedence over the name which is also its >>>> generic >>>> name. >>>> >>>> When I hear or read the name 'Back-necked Stork' I visualise the >>>> beautiful, elegant bird that it is I don't lament the loss of a >>>> totally inappropriate name for Australia's only stork species. >>>> However if 'Black-necked Stork' is too much to bear you will be >>>> happy >>>> to know that when the New Guinea and Australian populations of this >>>> species are separated out from the Asian populations, which is >>>> likely >>>> in the future, the name 'Satin Stork' will, >>>> >>>> hopefully, be applied to our birds. This name received support >>>> from >>>> the >>>> >>>> Birds Australia Common Names Committee but it will only be with >>>> widespread acceptance that it will become 'set in stone.' So far I >>>> have received a >>>> >>>> large amount of support for the name. I hope you will also >>>> support it. >>>> >>>> >>>> Greg Clancy >>>> Ecologist >>>> Coutts Crossing >>>> NSW >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Gary Wright" >>>> To: "birding aus" >>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 2:19 PM >>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] One arm point and beyond(dampier >>>> peninsula,near >>>> Broome >>>> >>>> >>>>> We went on a short boat trip out from one arm point on Saturday >>>>> and >>>> there >>>>> was not much to report in terms of birding, except on both islands >>>>> we stopped on there were beach stone curlews standing on large >>>>> rounded >>>> rocks, >>>>> which was an interesting sight. We have had channel billed >>>>> cuckoo >>>> here >>>>> at >>>>> Djarindjin over the last week, but I think they may have moved on >>>>> now. >>>>> >>>>> This morning I went to Gambanan campground but no Gouldian >>>>> Finches, >>>> but a >>>>> good selection of waders on beach. The most interesting place >>>>> was >>>>> sewerage >>>>> ponds for One Armed Point where there was a black necked stork(I >>>>> hate calling it that and it is certainly not black necked) royal >>>>> spoonbill, whiskered tern, wood sandpiper, whistling kite, >>>>> brahminy >>>>> kite, white >>>> ibis >>>>> and very many rufous throated honeyeaters drinking from the ponds. >>>> Also >>>>> brown honeyeaters, masked lapwing, silver gull,willie wagtail and >>>>> grey >>>>> crowned babbler. I did see a little egret feeding in a way >>>>> that I >>>> haven >>>>> never seen before, by catching some flying insects above the water >>>>> of >>>> the >>>>> sewerage pond. It stood motionless and was frequently catching >>>> insects in >>>>> its bill, which looked far too big and cumbersome for such >>>>> delicate >>>> work. >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> =============================== >>>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>>> unsubscribe >>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>>> =============================== >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> =============================== >>>> www.birding-aus.org >>>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: >>>> unsubscribe >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>> =============================== >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> =============================== >>> www.birding-aus.org >>> birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>> send the message: >>> unsubscribe >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>> >> =============================== >> www.birding-aus.org >> birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >> send the message: >> unsubscribe >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >> to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >> =============================== > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: Needle Tails From: "John Allsop" <jallsop AT iprimus.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:40:44 +1000 There were 20+ White-throated Needletail Swifts hawking - with a few Welcome Swallows - over Coombabah Conservation Area, Gold Coast, Qld GPS 27⁰ 55’ 17” 153⁰ 22’ 34” at about 0900Hrs today 19/11/09. The weather was hot, humid and overcast at that time. John (for Gold Coast Bird Birdwatchers Group) ==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ============================== Subject: Re: Shearwater wreck East coast Tasmania From: Ian May <birding AT ozemail.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:36:57 +1100 g'Day all The wreck continues south with thousands of shearwaters floating dead in the ocean along the east coast of Tasmania. Commercial fisherman are reporting dead mutton birds at sea are just about everywhere most saying they have never seen anything like this. About two weeks ago south of St Helens, I was observing dense rafts of shearwaters at sea apparently feeding vigorously. Vast flocks could be seen across the entire horizon and their numbers must have been into hundreds of thousands. They were swimming, diving and flying rapidly for a few metres and diving again. At various locations in the vicinity, Humpback Whales were thrashing and breaching through the water in the midst of shearwater rafts At the time I was wondering if everything was competing for the same food source. I read somewhere once that some whales do not feed on their southern migration but from what was happening here I wondered how true that could be. Interestingly the shearwater wreck is now coinciding with a great migration of Humpback Whales. Last Thursday, 12 November from high on the eastern ramparts of the Scamander Tier we watched numerous pods of whales as far as the eye could see, extending from inshore to the horizon for many kilometres from north to south. Some animals were surfacing and breaching occasionally but there were whales right across the field of view out to the horizon for kilometres out to sea. Because they were surfacing only sporadically, we could not estimate numbers accurately There seemed to be at least 50 and perhaps as many as two hundred animals spread out across kilometres of ocean moving south. I now wonder if the rapidly increasing whale populations could be competing with the birds? As we know, Shearwater wrecks are periodic and in the late 1970's following a week of gale force winds, many thousands died at about this same time along the coast of SE SA and the Coorong. At that time, whales were rarely seen from mainland SA. But on this occasion we have not had any recent savage weather. Regrads Ian May St Helens, Tasmania inger vandyke wrote: >Hi All, >I believe this is a cyclical event. In 2000 I went for a walk along the beach at Clifton Rocks in Croajingalong, South Eastern Victoria and saw hundreds of dead Short-tailed Shearwaters. Initially I thought there was a disaster that we hadn't heard about but after reading more about it, apparently there are records of these events dating back to the 1950's here in Australia. >I am certainly no expert but I believe it has something to do with the birds timing their migration wrong with the change of ocean temperatures on currents. Naturally the cooler water temps bring more food but if there is a sudden burst of warm water I think that means they arrive, expecting cold water and more food, find warm water and nothing to forage on, then die off in their thousands. >As Short-taileds don't appear to be generally threatened, I don't believe this is a problem for them as a species but it is certainly worth noting if the frequency of these events could be tied with climatic cycles and they become more common. >While they are a common bird, I would hate to see them suffer a similar demise to the Passenger Pigeon if we don't keep an eye out for them. >Cheers, >Inger > > > >Inger Vandyke > >Natural History Writer and Photographer > >Assistant Publicity Officer - Southern Oceans Seabird Study Association (SOSSA) > >Mob: 0402 286 437 > > > >www.ingervandyke.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:22:21 +1100 >>From: pennedb AT gmail.com >>To: youcantryreachingme AT yahoo.com.au >>CC: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au; Martin.O'Brien AT dse.vic.gov.au >>Subject: [Birding-Aus] Shearwater wreck Mid-North Coast NSW >> >>Following Chris's report, I was at Farquahar Inlet, just south of Taree, >>NSW Mid-North Coast on Tuesday 10th November, and counted 111 dead >>Short-tailed Shearwaters walking the length of the beach along the >>Little Tern enclosure from the inlet to opposite the beach car entry >>from the second car park. >> >>Also one dead Common Noddy. >> >>And a dead stingray about 45cm wide. >> >>No shearwaters seen out to sea. But at Wallabi Point, two Humpbacks >>were displaying - looked like a mother and calf as one was much smaller >>and was breaching one third out of the water, while the larger was >>mainly bashing the water with its flippers - watched for 10 minutes and >>left them still at it. >> >> >>>They're washing up dead and dying in Sydney. >>> >>>http://www.theleader.com.au/news/local/news/general/mutton-birds-just-dead-tired/1671845.aspx >>> >>>From 2 days ago (10 Nov 2009): >>> >>> >>>Mutton birds just dead tired >>>BY ALICIA WOOD >>>10 Nov, 2009 04:00 AM >>>HARDLY a day goes by without Cronulla lifeguard Cameron Pyett getting asked about the dead birds washed up on the beach. >>>An >>>increasing number of dead mutton birds had washed up on the sand in >>>recent weeks, after perishing on their way home from a long migration. >>>While some residents have put it down to unusually strong winds for this time of year, the experts say it is nothing new. >>>"It happens every year,'' Mr Pyett said. "But there are usually not as many as I have seen this year.'' >>>The birds generally die of exhaustion while attempting to complete a remarkable migratory round-trip of about 15,000 kilometres. >>>National >>>Parks and Wildlife Services officer, Geoff Ross, said this was a >>>natural event, with the birds flying from Australia to the northern >>>hemisphere, and back. >>>"The birds we see now have died on the last leg of their journey heading south back to Australian shores,'' Mr Ross said. >>>"If >>>they encounter severe weather or have trouble locating sufficient fish >>>stocks along the way then they will struggle and some will succumb and >>>eventually wash up on beaches.'' >>>But not all of the birds that >>>wash up are dead and a WIRES spokeswoman said the service had been >>>``inundated'' with calls about how to care for exhausted birds. >>>She >>>asked those who found live birds to keep them in a box, away from >>>predators, and to either take them to a vet or wait until a WIRES >>>volunteer arrived. >>>She urged people not to feed the exhausted birds or offer them water as it could cause shock. >>>Cronulla Veterinary Clinic took in six ailing birds last week but they were so malnourished none survived. >>>Call: 13000 WIRES >>>Mutton bird facts: >>>- Also known as short-tailed shearwaters, or sea birds >>>- >>>They were hunted by the early Norfolk Island settlers for food and it >>>is thought this is where the common name "mutton bird'' came from >>>- Breeds on small Bass Strait islands and Tasmania, then migrates to the Northern Hemisphere >>>- One of the few Australian native birds that is harvested commercially for its feathers, flesh and oil >>>- They do not come to shore during their migration, often flying 15,000 kilometres in six weeks. >>>Do you think there have been more dead birds on the beach this year? >>> >>>Chris. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>>From: "Martin.O'Brien AT dse.vic.gov.au" >>>To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au >>>Sent: Thu, 12 November, 2009 1:09:54 PM >>>Subject: [Birding-Aus] Shearwater wreck - Vict? >>> >>>Am after the advice of Victorian list members, especially those visiting >>>the coast or doing pelagic trips. >>> >>>Has anyone heard about or observed shearwaters sitting in the water close >>>to shore or on beaches recently? >>> >>>Apparently numbers of Short-tailed Shearwaters have been observed in and >>>around Griffiths Island near Port Fairy recently. >>> >>> >>>Martin O'Brien >>>Wildlife Biologist - Threatened Species & Communities Section >>>Department of Sustainability and Environment >>>2/8 Nicholson St., >>>East Melbourne 3002 >>>VICTORIA >>> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Notice: >>>This email and any attachments may contain information that is personal, >>>confidential, legally privileged and/or copyright.No part of it should be reproduced, >>>adapted or communicated without the prior written consent of the copyright owner. >>> >>>It is the responsibility of the recipient to check for and remove viruses. >>>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by return email, delete >>>it from your system and destroy any copies. You are not authorised to use, communicate or rely on the information >>>contained in this email. >>> >>>Please consider the environment before printing this email. >>>=============================== >>>www.birding-aus.org >>>birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>send the message: >>>unsubscribe >>>(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>=============================== >>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________________________________________ >>>Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. >>>Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/ >>>============================www.birding-aus.org >>>birding-aus.blogspot.com >>> >>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>>send the message: >>>unsubscribe >>>(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>>to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>>============================ >>> >>> >>> >>=============================== >>www.birding-aus.org >>birding-aus.blogspot.com >> >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >>send the message: >>unsubscribe >>(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >>to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >>=============================== >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area! >http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/==============================www.birding-aus.org >birding-aus.blogspot.com > >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, >send the message: >unsubscribe >(in the body of the message, with no Subject line) >to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au >============================ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.59/2494 - Release Date: 11/10/09 07:38:00 > > > =============================== www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au =============================== Subject: RE: Field guide to Thailand and Vietnam From: robert morris <robert_p_morris AT hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:38:47 +0000 Agreed Chris (for Thailand) - but this doesn't cover Vietnam which does have a quite a few endemic specialities not in Thailand, as well as some Chinese influence in the north (also not covered by a Thai guide). So if you want one book I think the SE Asia one would be best? Rob Morris Brisbane, Australia > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:28:26 +1100 > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Field guide to Thailand and Vietnam > From: cfcoleborn AT gmail.com > To: markgafney AT gmail.com; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > > Mark & All, > > There is now an updated book by Craig Robson, 'A Field Guide to the Birds of > Thailand'. It is based on his book, 'A field Guide to the Birds of > South-east Asia' but the updated book has distribution maps and text on the > page opposite the bird illustraion. It is an excellent book. > > Chris Coleborn > > > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Fiona Anderson wrote: > > > > > Yes Rob - I totally agree. Klaus and I have used this on 2 trips to the > > area and found it the best available. > > > > > > > > Enjoy your trip, Mark. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Fiona Anderson > > > > > > > > . > > > > > From: robert_p_morris AT hotmail.com > > > To: markgafney AT gmail.com; birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > > > Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Field guide to Thailand and Vietnam > > > Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:33:12 +0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd reccommend 'A field Guide to the Birds of South-east Asia' by Craig > > Robson (Published by New Holland). Distribution is text not maps. The text > > and figures are the best going. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob Morris > > > > > > Brisbane, Australia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:15:19 +0200 > > > > From: markgafney AT gmail.com > > > > To: birding-aus AT vicnet.net.au > > > > Subject: [Birding-Aus] Field guide to Thailand and Vietnam > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > Im not sure if this has been discussed recently or not, but I am going > > to > > > > Thailand and Vietnam for a few weeks in December and am looking for a > > > > comprehensive field guide for birds of SE Asia. I am looking for neat > > > > accurate drawings or photos in the book as well as the maps showing > > > > distribution (IE not a descriptive text indication which most field > > guides > > > > on Amazon seem to have). > > > > > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions > > > > Many thanks > > > > Regards > > > > Mark > > > > =============================== > > > > www.birding-aus.org > > > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > > > send the message: > > > > unsubscribe > > > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > > > =============================== > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > For more of what happens online Head to the Daily Blob on Windows Live > > > http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/blog.aspx==========www.birding-aus.org > > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > > send the message: > > > unsubscribe > > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > > ========== > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Looking to move this spring? With all the lastest places, searching has > > never been easier. Look now! > > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/www.birding-aus.org > > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > > send the message: > > unsubscribe > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > > > =============================== > www.birding-aus.org > birding-aus.blogspot.com > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, > send the message: > unsubscribe > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) > to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au > =============================== _________________________________________________________________ For more of what happens online Head to the Daily Blob on Windows Live http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/blog.aspx==============================www.birding-aus.org birding-aus.blogspot.com To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the message: unsubscribe (in the body of the message, with no Subject line) to: birding-aus-request AT vicnet.net.au ==============================