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2 Jan Re: What are your observing highlights of the year? ["William Hull" ] 31 Dec Re: What are your observing highlights of the year? ["brentturcotte" ] 31 Dec urban dragon hunter 2008 highlights ["Darrin O'Brien" ] 31 Dec RE: What are your observing highlights of the year? ["D&Y Bree" ] 31 Dec What are your observing highlights of the year? ["brentturcotte" ] 17 Dec Dragonfly Photos from Northern Wisconsin [Ryan Brady ] 11 Oct Zigzag Darner in Lake County, MN ["Jim Lind" ] 20 Sep Re: Hand lens & Nets [Brent Turcotte ] 20 Sep Re: Hand lens & Nets [The Sinclairs ] 20 Sep Hand lens & Nets ["brentturcotte" ] 19 Aug Re: Finding Darner Swarms ["brentturcotte" ] 12 Aug Re: Emerald i.d. help please ["ldemarch" ] 12 Aug Re: Emerald i.d. help please [Dennis Paulson ] 12 Aug Emerald i.d. help please ["ldemarch" ] 10 Aug Citrine Forktail on N shore of lake Ontario ["D&Y Bree" ] 04 Aug Re: Another Golden-winged Skimmer(?), Berrien County, MI [Ethan Bright ] 04 Aug Another Golden-winged Skimmer(?), Berrien County, MI ["omega_254" ] 31 Jul RE: Finding Darner Swarms ["D&Y Bree" ] 31 Jul Finding Darner Swarms ["brentturcotte" ] 27 Jul Re: question about Hudsonian Whiteface [] 24 Jul question about Hudsonian Whiteface [Dennis Paulson ] 24 Jul question about Hudsonian Whiteface [Dennis Paulson ] 19 Jul identification assistance [] 27 Jun Re: Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area [Tim Cashatt ] 26 Jun Re: Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area ["William Hull" ] 26 Jun Re: Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area [Tim Cashatt ] 25 Jun Re: Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area [Dennis Paulson ] 25 Jun Re: Re: diversity question..more [Dennis Paulson ] 24 Jun Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area ["William Hull" ] 24 Jun Re: Yet Once More on the diversity question..more [Ethan Bright ] 24 Jun Yet Once More on the diversity question..more ["Bob Glotzhober" ] 24 Jun Re: diversity question..more [Ethan Bright ] 23 Jun Re: GLOM; diversity question [] 23 Jun Re: [gl_odonata] GLOM; diversity question [Brent Turcotte ] 23 Jun Re: GLOM; diversity question [Ethan Bright ] 23 Jun Re: GLOM; diversity question [] 23 Jun Re: [gl_odonata] GLOM; diversity question [Dennis Paulson ] 23 Jun Re: GLOM; diversity question [Dennis Paulson ] 23 Jun Re: GLOM; diversity question ["jpdragonf1y" ] 23 Jun RE: [gl_odonata] GLOM; diversity question ["Bob Glotzhober" ] 23 Jun Re: GLOM; diversity question [Dennis Paulson ] 23 Jun GLOM; diversity question [] 22 Jun Cobra Clubtail in Wayne County, Michigan ["Darrin O'Brien" ] 21 Jun Re: Needham et al. book wanted [] 18 Jun Needham et al. book wanted ["ldemarch" ] 6 Jun New file uploaded to gl_odonata [] 5 Jun Minnesota Odonata Survey Project newsletter ["Kurt Mead" ] 13 May Correct URL for GLOM 2008 ["Mark" ] 13 May 2008 GLOM Info ["Mark" ] 5 May Re: SW Ohio Blue Corporal / Carolina Saddlebags / etc [Dennis Paulson ] 5 May Uhler's Sundragon - Adams and Scioto Counties, Ohio ["William Hull" ] 5 May SW Ohio Blue Corporal / Carolina Saddlebags / etc ["William Hull" ] Subject: Re: What are your observing highlights of the year? From: "William Hull" <mangoverde AT gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:10:31 -0500 It is always fun to look back like this and to hear everyone's good experiences. Personally I had an interesting year and found some nice species for my local counties in southwestern Ohio. The ones with asterisks are just a few of the potential county records from 2008 which I have not yet submitted. Adams Co. ---------------- Rapids Clubtail * http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic150-146-2.html Arrow Clubtail * http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic150-166-1.html Gray Petailtail (11 in one day including an ovipositing female) http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic190-153-17.html Tiger Spiketail http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic130-165-3.html Clermont Co. ------------------ Stygian Shadowdragon * (found at the same location where I found Smoky Shadowdragon the previous year) http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic140-151-1.html Double-ringed Pennant (I saw this species in two locations but was unable to get a photo. In both cases the individual was chased by a Blue Dasher almost immediately after I sighted it and then flew high into the trees. With proof, this would be a first state record. Looks like a task for 2009...) Blue Corporal (300-500 around a small pond) http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic160-71-26.html Hamilton Co. ------------------ Painted Skimmer (Landed in a section of prairie plantings in my urban Cincinnati yard! Definitely the most interesting entry on my meager 14 species yard list.) http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic160-145-6.html Rapids Clubtail * http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic150-146-10.html Plains Clubtail * http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic150-152-2.html Eastern Ringtail (Previously there were two published Ohio records: Hamilton County in 1903 and Paulding County in 1954. I have found what appears to be a very healthy population.) http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic150-167-1.html Smoky Rubyspot * (found while keeping tabs on the aforementioned ringtails) http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/picpages/pic510-168-1.html -- Cheers, Bill Hull Cincinnati, OH, USA http://www.mangoverde.com/ On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 8:56 AM, D&Y Bree wrote: > This is a cool idea, but Brent you should mention your general area of > investigation. > > For myself on the north-east shore of Lake Ontario in Ontario my 2009 > highlights include (after 10 years of looking) > > - Cyrano Darner north of Kingston about my 5th - new location > - Citrine Forktail appeared along the north shore of Lake Ontario in a broad > front in late summer for the first time since 2000 > - couple of Painted Skimmer along the lakeshore in early June - they are > becoming almost annual but no evidence of breeding > - Mottled darner (fem) landed in front of me in September along the > Lakeshore - only my second ever - migrant? > - Sanddraggons appear to be expanded their range in the Peterborough area - > being common along a stretch of Eel's Creek that they were not present on 5 > years ago > - Finally saw a Carolina Saddlebags - these appear to be regular on the > north shore in small numbers in early June but I always miss them. Saw 1 > this year and again in September! My only Ontario lifer for 2008. > > Have a good 2009! > > David Bree > Bloomfield, Ontario > Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com]On > Behalf Of brentturcotte > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:08 PM > To: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [gl_odonata] What are your observing highlights of the year? > > > This is my second year dragonfling and it has been fun. Can't wait > for late May/early June to do it again. Going into 2009 I have the > new Algonquin field guide (excellent job) and some chest waders. Here > are some of my most memorable moments of the dragonfly season: > > -Seeing four species of skimmer (Slaty Skimmer, Chalk-fronted > Corporal, Twelve-Spotted Skimmer and Common Whiteface) all sunning > themselves on a rock at the same time > -Learning that I could separate a Marsh Bluet from a Hagen's Bluet by > their terminal appendages with a hand lens. I am so near-sighted that > my focus point is six inches in front of my face without my glasses. > -Netting a Mottled Darner from a kayak. It is extremely difficult to > net from a kayak and to find a species new to me made it worth it. > -Discovering my first striped emerald (a Brush-tipped Emerald). Subject: Re: What are your observing highlights of the year? From: "brentturcotte" <brentturcotte AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:52:15 -0000 My location is North Bay, Ontario. 90% of my observations are less than a hour's drive away from North Bay. I am currently the only resident observing dragonflies in the district of Nipissing (excluding Algonquin Park). Because of my northerly location I have the opportunity to expand the range maps of some species. If my observation is accepted I will have the most northerly sighting of Midland Clubtail east of Lake Superior in Ontario. Subject: urban dragon hunter 2008 highlights From: "Darrin O'Brien" <treecreeper AT wowway.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:00:34 -0500 Julie and I had another great year for odes in southeast Michigan. Here is my list of highlights from the 2008 season. Wayne County, all at the Humbug Marsh unit of the Detroit River International Wildlife Refuge - Painted Skimmers (Libellula semifasciata) = two on 6/15 for the 2nd county record - Cobra Clubtail (Gomphus vastus) = one on 6/22 which was a first for us in the county - Russet-tipped Clubtails (Stylurus plagiatus) = a record high count of 91 on 8/17 - Smoky Rubyspot (Hetaerina titia) = 9/22 for a new county record Lenawee County - Arrow Clubtail (Stylurus spiniceps) = 9/6 along the Raisin River in Tecumseh for a new county record - Mottled Darners (Aeshna clepsydra) = several on 9/27 at Onsted SGA for a new county record Monroe County - Great Blue Skimmers (Libellula vibrans) = several on 7/20 at Munson Park for a new county record For further details of these and other finds, check out our blog = http://urbanodes.blogspot.com/ What will be found in 2009? Each year brings so many surprises. -- Darrin O'Brien Subject: RE: What are your observing highlights of the year? From: "D&Y Bree" <dbree AT kos.net> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 08:56:48 -0500 This is a cool idea, but Brent you should mention your general area of investigation. For myself on the north-east shore of Lake Ontario in Ontario my 2009 highlights include (after 10 years of looking) - Cyrano Darner north of Kingston about my 5th - new location - Citrine Forktail appeared along the north shore of Lake Ontario in a broad front in late summer for the first time since 2000 - couple of Painted Skimmer along the lakeshore in early June - they are becoming almost annual but no evidence of breeding - Mottled darner (fem) landed in front of me in September along the Lakeshore - only my second ever - migrant? - Sanddraggons appear to be expanded their range in the Peterborough area - being common along a stretch of Eel's Creek that they were not present on 5 years ago - Finally saw a Carolina Saddlebags - these appear to be regular on the north shore in small numbers in early June but I always miss them. Saw 1 this year and again in September! My only Ontario lifer for 2008. Have a good 2009! David Bree Bloomfield, Ontario Canada -----Original Message----- From: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of brentturcotte Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:08 PM To: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [gl_odonata] What are your observing highlights of the year? This is my second year dragonfling and it has been fun. Can't wait for late May/early June to do it again. Going into 2009 I have the new Algonquin field guide (excellent job) and some chest waders. Here are some of my most memorable moments of the dragonfly season: -Seeing four species of skimmer (Slaty Skimmer, Chalk-fronted Corporal, Twelve-Spotted Skimmer and Common Whiteface) all sunning themselves on a rock at the same time -Learning that I could separate a Marsh Bluet from a Hagen's Bluet by their terminal appendages with a hand lens. I am so near-sighted that my focus point is six inches in front of my face without my glasses. -Netting a Mottled Darner from a kayak. It is extremely difficult to net from a kayak and to find a species new to me made it worth it. -Discovering my first striped emerald (a Brush-tipped Emerald). ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1852 - Release Date: 12/16/2008 6:11 PM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.18/1852 - Release Date: 12/16/2008 6:11 PM Subject: What are your observing highlights of the year? From: "brentturcotte" <brentturcotte AT yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 02:07:37 -0000 This is my second year dragonfling and it has been fun. Can't wait for late May/early June to do it again. Going into 2009 I have the new Algonquin field guide (excellent job) and some chest waders. Here are some of my most memorable moments of the dragonfly season: -Seeing four species of skimmer (Slaty Skimmer, Chalk-fronted Corporal, Twelve-Spotted Skimmer and Common Whiteface) all sunning themselves on a rock at the same time -Learning that I could separate a Marsh Bluet from a Hagen's Bluet by their terminal appendages with a hand lens. I am so near-sighted that my focus point is six inches in front of my face without my glasses. -Netting a Mottled Darner from a kayak. It is extremely difficult to net from a kayak and to find a species new to me made it worth it. -Discovering my first striped emerald (a Brush-tipped Emerald). Subject: Dragonfly Photos from Northern Wisconsin From: Ryan Brady <ryanbrady10 AT hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 08:40:30 -0700 Hi everyone, I'm new to the list and this is my first post. I'm an avid birder living in northern Wisconsin and this past summer I got hooked on dragonflying. I didn't do any netting but I took lots and lots of photos with my Canon 40D and Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 IS lens. It took a while but I finally got all my images onto my website and they can be found below. Some are good photos, many are just for documentation. Check out the intro text for more details. http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/dragonflies My best finds were probably Subarctic Darner and Incurvate Emerald: http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/subarctica http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/incurvata If forced to choose some favorites among the 350+ photos, I'd probably go with... Canada Darner: http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/106784158 Black-tipped Darner: http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/106810629 Shadow Darner: http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/106811486 Zebra Clubtail: http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/106909646 Twin-spotted Spiketail: http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/106912935 Ocellated Emerald: http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/106977762 Blue Dasher male: http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/107126295 Blue Dasher female: http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/107126303 Variegated Meadowhawk: http://upload.pbase.com/rbrady/image/107156918 If anyone has any opinions on these unknown Sympetrums, I'd love to hear them. http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/sympetrum Questions, comments, suggestions, and corrections welcome. Thanks! Ryan Brady Grand View, Bayfield County, WI http://www.pbase.com/rbrady Subject: Zigzag Darner in Lake County, MN From: "Jim Lind" <jslind AT frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:57:37 -0600 I was surprised to collect a female Zigzag Darner today in my backyard in Two Harbors, MN. This is a few blocks from Lake Superior so perhaps it was migrating down the lakeshore. The nearest lowland bog habitat is at least 15 miles inland. Jim Lind Two Harbors, MN Subject: Re: Hand lens & Nets From: Brent Turcotte <brentturcotte AT yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Sounds good.  Thanks for the link, that store has got some cool stuff.  The butterfly binoculars are a little cheaper than I expected (Pentax Papilo). --- On Sat, 9/20/08, The Sinclairs wrote: From: The Sinclairs Subject: Re: [gl_odonata] Hand lens & Nets To: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 20, 2008, 1:41 PM Brent My favorite hand lens came from Le Naturaliste in Quebec, search for magnifiers on their website: http://www.lenatura liste.ca/ en. The one I use is their 25 mm diameter 16X Ruper. Al Sinclair Bracebridge On. Subject: Re: Hand lens & Nets From: The Sinclairs <sinclair AT muskoka.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:41:57 -0400 Brent My favorite hand lens came from Le Naturaliste in Quebec, search for magnifiers on their website: http://www.lenaturaliste.ca/en. The one I use is their 25 mm diameter 16X Ruper. Al Sinclair Bracebridge On. Subject: Hand lens & Nets From: "brentturcotte" <brentturcotte AT yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:19:01 -0000 I have a 10X Kaiser hand lens. It is one of those that you can fit on top of something. It is excellent for looking at lichens or tiny bugs but not so good for looking at terminal appendages of damselflies. Even if you flip the lens upside down so that the plastic edge doesn't interfere it can be tough to get a clear focus at just the right angle. Oddly enough I discovered success with identifying a Hagen's Bluet with my bare eyes by its terminal appendage. I am so nearsighted that my focus point is six inches away when I take my glasses off. What hand lens do you use or recommend? Are they available from a Canadian supplier to that I can reduce my shipping expenses? In addition I am wondering if any Canadian company makes a collapsible net like BioEquip does? Or even a extendible net? I have the collapsible net, which I really like, from BioEquip but was shocked to pay $30 for shipping and postage. I want to improve my writeup on field equipment at http://users.vianet.ca/turbrent/nipnat/FieldGuides/Equipment.html http://users.vianet.ca/turbrent/nipnat/FieldGuides/Bugs.html#Odo Subject: Re: Finding Darner Swarms From: "brentturcotte" <brentturcotte AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:07:13 -0000 I am starting to find some groups of darners. I haven't found a swarm yet like the one two years ago at Arrowhead PP (50 darners or so in a tight group) but I have been able to ID a few. So far I got a few Canada Darners, one spotted Variable Darner and one Mottled Darner. Unbelievably I caught the Mottled Darner (on Rice Bay at Lake Talon just north of Highway 17 near North Bay) from a kayak. I reduce my net's handle to two feet although in retrospect I could have handled three feet with ease. Brent > Most of the Aeshna darner swarms I have come across in Ontario have not been > by lakes, but rather in clearings in forests (could be parking lots, > road-sides), from late July to mid September, the best ones were in > mid-August to early September. These have almost all been in south shield > areas. The exception was along the north shoreline of Lake Ontario in early > September a few times when I assume some migrants or migrant-like southern > movement was being arrested by the big lake. To the best of my recollection > the forest swarms were on pretty calm, moderate temperature days, usually > evening but sometime mid-day. The Lake Ontario swarms were probably in > light wind, it usually being somewhat windy down here. > > When it comes to Anax there are always good numbers along the shoreline of > Lake Ontario in late August into October. Usually feeding in the lee of > woodlots or resting in the grass of sheltered fields, but I think of them > more as "flocks" rather than swarms - does that make sense? > > Rothfels has a short note in Vol. 7 of Ontario Odonata about a low, tight, > Aeshna swarm he came across in Algonquin Park on Aug 1, 2005 and raises some > interesting questions from his observation. > > Hope this is of some help. > > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com]On > Behalf Of brentturcotte > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 8:57 PM > To: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: [gl_odonata] Finding Darner Swarms > > > Anybody have any tips on finding darner swarms? I have tried looking > around Lake Nipissing several times at place where darners were > spotted but I found nothing. Maybe it had something to do with the > weather. All the times I tried it was windy and relatively cool for > this time of year. Mosquitos were non-existant although some really > tiny bugs were in abundance. > > Do darners swarm in one or a few places on a lake while all other > places are vacant? > > Do darners change the location of a swarm? > > If say it was really windy on Lake Nipissing would I have more luck on > a smaller more sheltered (and maybe more remote) lake? > > > Brent > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.5.8/1582 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 > 6:37 PM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.5.8/1582 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 > 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: Emerald i.d. help please From: "ldemarch" <demarchl AT mts.net> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:14:33 -0000 Thank you Dennis I appreciate you taking the time to look. Cheers, Larry --- In gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > Hi, Larry. > > It looks like walshii to me. > > Dennis > > On Aug 12, 2008, at 8:34 AM, ldemarch wrote: > > > Hi All > > > > I photographed a female Somatochlora which I originally thought was > > walshii on July 3 at 50° 3'16.11"N 95°27'7.88"W in Whiteshell > > Provincial Park east of Winnipeg, Manitoba beside a slow marsh-edged > > river. I found a second female on a trail not far north of this > > location the same day. Some doubt has been expressed about the i.d. > > I've looked through Bugguide and a number of references including > > Dragonflies of NA without success. > > > > http://bugguide.net/node/view/212185 > > > > Hopefully someone out there has experience with this species and can > > tell me what it is. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Larry > > > > Larry de March, > > Winnipeg > > > > > > > > ----- > Dennis Paulson > 1724 NE 98 St. > Seattle, WA 98115 > 206-528-1382 > dennispaulson AT ... > Subject: Re: Emerald i.d. help please From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:51:37 -0700 Hi, Larry. It looks like walshii to me. Dennis On Aug 12, 2008, at 8:34 AM, ldemarch wrote: > Hi All > > I photographed a female Somatochlora which I originally thought was > walshii on July 3 at 50° 3'16.11"N 95°27'7.88"W in Whiteshell > Provincial Park east of Winnipeg, Manitoba beside a slow marsh-edged > river. I found a second female on a trail not far north of this > location the same day. Some doubt has been expressed about the i.d. > I've looked through Bugguide and a number of references including > Dragonflies of NA without success. > > http://bugguide.net/node/view/212185 > > Hopefully someone out there has experience with this species and can > tell me what it is. > > Cheers, > > Larry > > Larry de March, > Winnipeg > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Emerald i.d. help please From: "ldemarch" <demarchl AT mts.net> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:34:12 -0000 Hi All I photographed a female Somatochlora which I originally thought was walshii on July 3 at 50° 3'16.11"N 95°27'7.88"W in Whiteshell Provincial Park east of Winnipeg, Manitoba beside a slow marsh-edged river. I found a second female on a trail not far north of this location the same day. Some doubt has been expressed about the i.d. I've looked through Bugguide and a number of references including Dragonflies of NA without success. http://bugguide.net/node/view/212185 Hopefully someone out there has experience with this species and can tell me what it is. Cheers, Larry Larry de March, Winnipeg Subject: Citrine Forktail on N shore of lake Ontario From: "D&Y Bree" <dbree AT kos.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 00:14:07 -0400 Citrine Forktails are again present in the pannes (dune slacks) of Sandbanks Provincial Park in Ontario on the north shore of Lake Ontario. This is well north of their normal range. The only other time they have been found here was in 2000 from Aug 4 to Sept 29 - perhaps not coincidentally this was the last "wet" year, when these pannes were full of water all summer, instead of drying up in July (which is the norm). The pannes are currently very full right now. Park Naturalist Joanne Dewey saw one male on Aug 7th and in a longer search today (Aug 9th) I saw 8 males and 2 females. I have no doubt more are present as I only covered a fraction of the suitable habitat. If I recall correctly the year 2000 saw a few more colonies of this species turning up in other locations around the Great lakes where they are normally not present. Anybody else finding these around this year in spots they are not normally present? Cheers David Bree Bloomfield, Ontario No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1597 - Release Date: 8/7/2008 5:54 AM Subject: Re: Another Golden-winged Skimmer(?), Berrien County, MI From: Ethan Bright <ethanbr AT umich.edu> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:14:05 -0400 omega_254 wrote: > I have just returned from a weekend sojourn to Grand Beach in far > southwestern Michigan (Berrien County,) only a few miles from the > Michigan, Indiana border and only a half mile from the shore of Lake > Michigan. While there I spent a lot of time looking for odonata, > lepidoptera, etc. > > At a small retention pond near a golf course I found what I believe > was a Golden-winged Skimmer... > > Of course, I took photos, and the Golden-winged Skimmer allowed me to > get quite close. > Pictures certainly look like Libellula auripennis (Golden-winged Skimmer). Next time, capture the specimen so you can make a voucher, and verify it as a record. Cheers, Ethan Subject: Another Golden-winged Skimmer(?), Berrien County, MI From: "omega_254" <omega_254 AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:17:31 -0000 I have just returned from a weekend sojourn to Grand Beach in far southwestern Michigan (Berrien County,) only a few miles from the Michigan, Indiana border and only a half mile from the shore of Lake Michigan. While there I spent a lot of time looking for odonata, lepidoptera, etc. At a small retention pond near a golf course I found what I believe was a Golden-winged Skimmer. The guide I use is admittedly limited, and I did not have internet access for more than twenty minutes or so during the trip until I returned this morning. After checking around on the internet a bit, I found the dragonfly I saw looks almost exactly the same as though photographed by Rick Nirschl and Roger Shamley (who, coincidentally, I met just a few blocks from my house where he photographed his Golden-winged Skimmer). Of course, I took photos, and the Golden-winged Skimmer allowed me to get quite close. I actually saw it twice, once on Saturday and once on Sunday. The dorsal photos come from Saturday, the ventral photos from Sunday. As you will see, the dragonfly appears quite worn. Photos will be available at this address after about 7pm tonight (you may have to scroll through a few of the other photos): http://www.flickr.com/photos/7851430 AT N06/ Owen McMurtrey Chicago, IL owenmcm AT gmail.com OR omega_254 AT yahoo.com Subject: RE: Finding Darner Swarms From: "D&Y Bree" <dbree AT kos.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:09:23 -0400 Brent Most of the Aeshna darner swarms I have come across in Ontario have not been by lakes, but rather in clearings in forests (could be parking lots, road-sides), from late July to mid September, the best ones were in mid-August to early September. These have almost all been in south shield areas. The exception was along the north shoreline of Lake Ontario in early September a few times when I assume some migrants or migrant-like southern movement was being arrested by the big lake. To the best of my recollection the forest swarms were on pretty calm, moderate temperature days, usually evening but sometime mid-day. The Lake Ontario swarms were probably in light wind, it usually being somewhat windy down here. When it comes to Anax there are always good numbers along the shoreline of Lake Ontario in late August into October. Usually feeding in the lee of woodlots or resting in the grass of sheltered fields, but I think of them more as "flocks" rather than swarms - does that make sense? Rothfels has a short note in Vol. 7 of Ontario Odonata about a low, tight, Aeshna swarm he came across in Algonquin Park on Aug 1, 2005 and raises some interesting questions from his observation. Hope this is of some help. David -----Original Message----- From: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of brentturcotte Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 8:57 PM To: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [gl_odonata] Finding Darner Swarms Anybody have any tips on finding darner swarms? I have tried looking around Lake Nipissing several times at place where darners were spotted but I found nothing. Maybe it had something to do with the weather. All the times I tried it was windy and relatively cool for this time of year. Mosquitos were non-existant although some really tiny bugs were in abundance. Do darners swarm in one or a few places on a lake while all other places are vacant? Do darners change the location of a swarm? If say it was really windy on Lake Nipissing would I have more luck on a smaller more sheltered (and maybe more remote) lake? Brent ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.5.8/1582 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 6:37 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 270.5.8/1582 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 6:37 PM Subject: Finding Darner Swarms From: "brentturcotte" <brentturcotte AT yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:57:10 -0000 Anybody have any tips on finding darner swarms? I have tried looking around Lake Nipissing several times at place where darners were spotted but I found nothing. Maybe it had something to do with the weather. All the times I tried it was windy and relatively cool for this time of year. Mosquitos were non-existant although some really tiny bugs were in abundance. Do darners swarm in one or a few places on a lake while all other places are vacant? Do darners change the location of a swarm? If say it was really windy on Lake Nipissing would I have more luck on a smaller more sheltered (and maybe more remote) lake? Brent Subject: Re: question about Hudsonian Whiteface From: <tdonelly AT binghamton.edu> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Soime hudsonica in northern Ontario have very reduced marks and look like patricia. Why not net the things? Nick Donnelly Subject: question about Hudsonian Whiteface From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:15:07 -0700 Has anyone on these lists seen male Hudsonian Whitefaces, Leucorrhinia hudsonica, without red spots on the abdomen? Jim Johnson has found and photographed and collected several of these in Oregon this summer, but I've never knowingly seen one in Washington. However, it would be easy to see one at a distance and just pass it off as a Crimson-ringed, L. glacialis (or in the West, a Belted, L. proxima) with no markings. An unmarked Hudsonian would then only be distinguished from these species by smaller size, unless you examined the hamules, appendages, and/or wing venation. ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: question about Hudsonian Whiteface From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:15:07 -0700 Has anyone on these lists seen male Hudsonian Whitefaces, Leucorrhinia hudsonica, without red spots on the abdomen? Jim Johnson has found and photographed and collected several of these in Oregon this summer, but I've never knowingly seen one in Washington. However, it would be easy to see one at a distance and just pass it off as a Crimson-ringed, L. glacialis (or in the West, a Belted, L. proxima) with no markings. An unmarked Hudsonian would then only be distinguished from these species by smaller size, unless you examined the hamules, appendages, and/or wing venation. ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: identification assistance From: crstettner AT aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:14:50 -0400 Hi, Does anyone recognize the second dragonfly in the sequence at the link, below? http://www.ilbirds. com/index. php?topic= 7693.0 It was forwarded to me for possible identification, but I am "drawing a blank."? The picture was taken?along the Chicago lakefront. Thanks for your help, Craig Stettner Subject: Re: Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area From: Tim Cashatt <cashatt AT museum.state.il.us> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:17:04 -0500 Hi Bill, Not to my knowledge. Richard Day lives near Ballard Nature Center where it was found, and I have him working on Hine's Emerald studies most of the time. The habitat where it was found includes many vernal ponds surrounded by tall grass and is difficult to work. The following is an excerpt from our article: ================================ The Ballard Nature Center, approximately 6 km SW of Altamont, is attempting to restore vernal ponds within a savannah restoration. The ponds were constructed following the recommendations of Thomas R. Biebighauser (2002) and are managed to provide breeding habitats for reptiles, amphibians, Odonata, and other species that require fishless breeding ponds. Numerous other ponds are being established on the property and are drained every 3 years, to provide a fishless habitat and vernal pond habitats in one, two, and three-year stages. The pond at the collection site was constructed in June 2004, was approximately 14 m X 24 m, and averaged about 38 cm deep. The dominant plants within the pond were Common Cattail (/Typha latifolia/), Water Plaintain (/Alisma subcordatum/), Spike Rush (/Eleocharis obtusa/), floating-leaf pondweed (/Potamogeton/ sp., probably /P. diversifolius/) and a rush, /Juncus nodatus/. Approximately 40% of the vernal pond was open water.** *======================================= * I was hoping to get back there, but this summer has been crazy so far! Tim William Hull wrote: > > Thanks, Tim. In hindsight I do now remember reading that. Has there > been any follow up work to determine if breeding is taking place? > Cheers, > Bill > > On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Tim Cashatt > > wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > I agree, Roger's photo is of Libellula auripennis. It was first > > recorded for IL in 2007, posted in Cashatt, Everett D., Richard Day, and > > Terry L. Esker. 2006. A new Anisoptera Record for Illinois: Libellula > > auripennis Burmeister. Argia 18 (3):12. > > I need have our web page updated! > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > William Hull wrote: > >> > >> Hello all, > >> Roger Shamley, a gentleman who is on a photo email group to which I am > >> subscribed sent in an ode photo yesterday which he had identified as a > >> Painted Skimmer (Libellula semifasciata). It caught my eye as it did > >> not look like a Painted Skimmer. To me it most resembles a > >> Golden-winged Skimmer (Libellula auripennis) so I asked him to send a > >> larger photo and any other angles that he may have. Unfortunately he > >> had deleted all lesser quality images on the camera and only saved the > >> one he had sent. I have temporarily placed a copy of this image > >> (312KB) on my website in case anyone is interested in taking a look at > >> it. > >> > >> > http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/stuff/Possible_Golden-winged_Skimmer_Chicago.jpg > > >> > > > >> > >> The photo was taken June 23, 2008, in the Wooded Isle section of > >> Jackson Park, Chicago. I have reviewed the Illinois ode lists on the > >> Illinois State Museum website and on Odonata Central and it does not > >> appear that this species has been previously recorded in the state. > >> > >> Recently Rick Nirschl found 2-3 male Golden-winged Skimmers at the Oak > >> Openings near Toledo for the first documented Ohio sighting in 50+ > >> years. > >> > >> Roger is interested in any feedback regarding the ID. I will > >> summarize and pass it along to him. > >> -- > >> Cheers, > >> Bill Hull > >> Cincinnati, OH, USA > >> http://www.mangoverde.com/ > > > > -- Everett D. (Tim) Cashatt, Ph.D. Chair and Curator of Zoology Illinois State Museum Research and Collection Center 1011 E. Ash Street Springfield, IL 62703 Tel. (217) 782-6689 FAX (217) 785-2857 http://www.museum.state.il.us/research/entomology/index.html Subject: Re: Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area From: "William Hull" <mangoverde AT gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:14:28 -0400 Thanks, Tim. In hindsight I do now remember reading that. Has there been any follow up work to determine if breeding is taking place? Cheers, Bill On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Tim Cashatt wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I agree, Roger's photo is of Libellula auripennis. It was first > recorded for IL in 2007, posted in Cashatt, Everett D., Richard Day, and > Terry L. Esker. 2006. A new Anisoptera Record for Illinois: Libellula > auripennis Burmeister. Argia 18 (3):12. > I need have our web page updated! > > Tim > > > > > > William Hull wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> Roger Shamley, a gentleman who is on a photo email group to which I am >> subscribed sent in an ode photo yesterday which he had identified as a >> Painted Skimmer (Libellula semifasciata). It caught my eye as it did >> not look like a Painted Skimmer. To me it most resembles a >> Golden-winged Skimmer (Libellula auripennis) so I asked him to send a >> larger photo and any other angles that he may have. Unfortunately he >> had deleted all lesser quality images on the camera and only saved the >> one he had sent. I have temporarily placed a copy of this image >> (312KB) on my website in case anyone is interested in taking a look at >> it. >> >> http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/stuff/Possible_Golden-winged_Skimmer_Chicago.jpg >> >> >> The photo was taken June 23, 2008, in the Wooded Isle section of >> Jackson Park, Chicago. I have reviewed the Illinois ode lists on the >> Illinois State Museum website and on Odonata Central and it does not >> appear that this species has been previously recorded in the state. >> >> Recently Rick Nirschl found 2-3 male Golden-winged Skimmers at the Oak >> Openings near Toledo for the first documented Ohio sighting in 50+ >> years. >> >> Roger is interested in any feedback regarding the ID. I will >> summarize and pass it along to him. >> -- >> Cheers, >> Bill Hull >> Cincinnati, OH, USA >> http://www.mangoverde.com/ Subject: Re: Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area From: Tim Cashatt <cashatt AT museum.state.il.us> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:07:48 -0500 Hi everyone, I agree, Roger's photo is of Libellula auripennis. It was first recorded for IL in 2007, posted in Cashatt, Everett D., Richard Day, and Terry L. Esker. 2006. A new Anisoptera Record for Illinois: Libellula auripennis Burmeister. Argia 18 (3):12. I need have our web page updated! Tim William Hull wrote: > > Hello all, > Roger Shamley, a gentleman who is on a photo email group to which I am > subscribed sent in an ode photo yesterday which he had identified as a > Painted Skimmer (Libellula semifasciata). It caught my eye as it did > not look like a Painted Skimmer. To me it most resembles a > Golden-winged Skimmer (Libellula auripennis) so I asked him to send a > larger photo and any other angles that he may have. Unfortunately he > had deleted all lesser quality images on the camera and only saved the > one he had sent. I have temporarily placed a copy of this image > (312KB) on my website in case anyone is interested in taking a look at > it. > > http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/stuff/Possible_Golden-winged_Skimmer_Chicago.jpg > > > The photo was taken June 23, 2008, in the Wooded Isle section of > Jackson Park, Chicago. I have reviewed the Illinois ode lists on the > Illinois State Museum website and on Odonata Central and it does not > appear that this species has been previously recorded in the state. > > Recently Rick Nirschl found 2-3 male Golden-winged Skimmers at the Oak > Openings near Toledo for the first documented Ohio sighting in 50+ > years. > > Roger is interested in any feedback regarding the ID. I will > summarize and pass it along to him. > -- > Cheers, > Bill Hull > Cincinnati, OH, USA > http://www.mangoverde.com/ > > -- Everett D. (Tim) Cashatt, Ph.D. Chair and Curator of Zoology Illinois State Museum Research and Collection Center 1011 E. Ash Street Springfield, IL 62703 Tel. (217) 782-6689 FAX (217) 785-2857 http://www.museum.state.il.us/research/entomology/index.html Subject: Re: Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:07:07 -0700 Bill, It is certainly either Golden-winged or Needham's (L. needhami) Skimmer. Obviously from known range, the former is much more likely up there. The costal vein proximal to the nodus is the same color as the same vein distal to the nodus, which also indicates Golden- winged, although some bright male Needham's are virtually impossible to distinguish from that. I can't quite see the thoracic pattern well enough to use that as an identifying feature. I don't suppose Roger has a side view. Dennis On Jun 24, 2008, at 1:30 PM, William Hull wrote: > Hello all, > Roger Shamley, a gentleman who is on a photo email group to which I am > subscribed sent in an ode photo yesterday which he had identified as a > Painted Skimmer (Libellula semifasciata). It caught my eye as it did > not look like a Painted Skimmer. To me it most resembles a > Golden-winged Skimmer (Libellula auripennis) so I asked him to send a > larger photo and any other angles that he may have. Unfortunately he > had deleted all lesser quality images on the camera and only saved the > one he had sent. I have temporarily placed a copy of this image > (312KB) on my website in case anyone is interested in taking a look at > it. > > http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/stuff/Possible_Golden- > winged_Skimmer_Chicago.jpg > > The photo was taken June 23, 2008, in the Wooded Isle section of > Jackson Park, Chicago. I have reviewed the Illinois ode lists on the > Illinois State Museum website and on Odonata Central and it does not > appear that this species has been previously recorded in the state. > > Recently Rick Nirschl found 2-3 male Golden-winged Skimmers at the Oak > Openings near Toledo for the first documented Ohio sighting in 50+ > years. > > Roger is interested in any feedback regarding the ID. I will > summarize and pass it along to him. > -- > Cheers, > Bill Hull > Cincinnati, OH, USA > http://www.mangoverde.com/ > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: Re: diversity question..more From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:50:11 -0700 Just one last thing, Ethan. I agree with your assessment, but I've tried to compare apples with apples (and of course oranges with oranges) by making my assessments at a much finer scale than that of the state and province. I compiled county lists, from Nick's dot-map records and my own records, for all the counties in the US. To me, a county is a reasonable unit to encompass the habitat diversity (and thus species diversity) present in a given region. You may have seen the maps on the Slater Museum website at http://www.ups.edu/x7040.xml. If not, check them out. One of them shows US counties in which >75 species and >100 species had been recorded at that time. Hundreds of counties, of course, have higher lists now than they did then (around 2003), but I don't think the picture has changed. The high counties range all up and down the eastern seaboard, with a smattering to the west as far as the Great Lakes. Only a single western county is shaded on the map. The difference between West and East can be explained by either a greater abundance and diversity of aquatic habitats in the East (because it's much wetter overall) and/or the period of glaciation that drove eastern aquatic ecosystems into eastern Mexico (and then back) but perhaps extirpated a lot of the western ones because of aridity. The east-west differences are dramatic. Here in western Washington, wet as it is, many streams and rivers entirely lack Odonata. The maximum # of lotic species present in the best streams I know is about 5. The apple/orange component of the map I presented is only because there has been a lot more odonate work in some states than others, obviously. You can also see where long-time dragonfly collectors have lived! I wish I had the time to update all those county lists and revise the map, as that would be most interesting. Nevertheless, I don't think it would change the conclusions that I reached from generating the maps. Since then, one more Arizona county has exceeded 75 species, and still no other western counties have done so (Cochise County, with 90 species, is the highest in the West, as far as I know). I have been told that Sussex County, NJ, has the largest county list of all, although I can't recall the figure. Dennis On Jun 24, 2008, at 7:36 AM, Ethan Bright wrote: > Dennis Paulson wrote: >> I have to respond to Bob's message. I agree with him 100%, including >> the differences in both number of species and number of individuals - >> except for eastern North American Odonata. There seems to be no such >> diversity gradient for eastern odes, with the New England and Great >> Lakes states having species lists equally as large as the >> southeastern >> states. With global warming and the apparent constant incursion of >> tropical species across our southern border (5 new species for Texas >> just this year), perhaps this will change, but right now the state >> lists at the US/Canadian border are as large as those at the southern >> edge of the US! Here are numbers from states east of the Mississippi >> from a list I compiled several years ago for a lecture. .. >> >> Alabama 173 >> Arkansas 132 >> ... > OK, let's not compare apples and oranges. As we know, beta and gamma > diversity depends not only on ecological processes, such as average > temperature, primary and secondary productivity, but also on the some > measure of the different types of ecosystems PER UNIT AREA. In other > words, one must put oneself in the multivariate environmental > parameter > world and standardize the data, rather than rely on species counts > from > human political entities. It would be a good idea to come up with > different biogeographic zones. Then, let's see if , after > standardizing > for ecosystem diversity (e.g., rivers, wetlands, bogs, altitudinal > gradients, etc.), if there is some cline associated with geography. > And > a final thought - maybe because odonates often are wonderful > disperants, > the historical signal (post-glacial recolonization) is really noisy. > > Now Dennis' mention of global warming is important: if odonate > diversity > is higher in areas in which aquatic ecosystems are not well > buffered by > groundwater systems (in other words, habitat diversity is dependent on > water systems that are subject to high evapotranspirative stress), > then > we need to really focus conservation measures in those areas. (Yes, an > obvious point!). > > Cheers, Ethan > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Possible Golden-winged Skimmer in Chicago area From: "William Hull" <mangoverde AT gmail.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:30:18 -0400 Hello all, Roger Shamley, a gentleman who is on a photo email group to which I am subscribed sent in an ode photo yesterday which he had identified as a Painted Skimmer (Libellula semifasciata). It caught my eye as it did not look like a Painted Skimmer. To me it most resembles a Golden-winged Skimmer (Libellula auripennis) so I asked him to send a larger photo and any other angles that he may have. Unfortunately he had deleted all lesser quality images on the camera and only saved the one he had sent. I have temporarily placed a copy of this image (312KB) on my website in case anyone is interested in taking a look at it. http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/stuff/Possible_Golden-winged_Skimmer_Chicago.jpg The photo was taken June 23, 2008, in the Wooded Isle section of Jackson Park, Chicago. I have reviewed the Illinois ode lists on the Illinois State Museum website and on Odonata Central and it does not appear that this species has been previously recorded in the state. Recently Rick Nirschl found 2-3 male Golden-winged Skimmers at the Oak Openings near Toledo for the first documented Ohio sighting in 50+ years. Roger is interested in any feedback regarding the ID. I will summarize and pass it along to him. -- Cheers, Bill Hull Cincinnati, OH, USA http://www.mangoverde.com/ Subject: Re: Yet Once More on the diversity question..more From: Ethan Bright <ethanbr AT umich.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:47:28 -0400 Bob Glotzhober wrote: > ...The pollution was definitely present by 1850 in a big way, and very > significant both chemically and silt-wise by the turn of the last > century. This had to have impacted Odonata diversity and abundance, but > what data do we have to support that? Not much. > > In 1895 or 96 (I'd have to look it up to be exact) David S. Kellicott > (who did the first recording of Odonates in Ohio) reported on an > un-named central Ohio river observing American Rubyspots (Hetaerina > americana) drooping off the branches in masses over the stream -- and > then capturing 70 of them in one sweep of the net. While this species is > still present with a "healthy" population -- we've never seen numbers > anything like that. If I go to the Big Darby (our best river) and > compare it to other nearby but more polluted streams, the population > levels of rubyspots is much greater (double or more??) in the Darby. So, > in 1895 were our rivers yet much cleaner than today and therefore more > productive? Does that in part explain the "flat" population curves > between southern areas and northern areas? i.e. northern rivers in the > UP of Michigan cleaner and therefore more productive? Have we in Ohio > actually lost species due to pollution that we never knew were here > because no one collected at all until 1895? Does that hold true for > other states -- at least the major rivers in those state? Obviously I > don't have any answers here, but it is an interesting line of thought. > How much would you suspect is the result of pollution per se, or in fact stream course modification due to large-scale changes in the landscape and the associated changes to stream hydrology, water input-output dynamics, and effects upon coarse debris input? (This most certainly killed off Somatochlora hineana in Ohio). Hetaerina nymphs are clingers, and require suitable substrates (macrophytes, woody debris). If streams were adapted for agriculture, drained, straightened and made steeper (slope), then I'd suspect that suitable habitat was severly reduced over the years. You're right, it is an interesting line of thought. There's an interesting article in the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/science/24stream.html?_r=1&8dpc&oref=slogin), which gives an idea of how difficult it's sometimes in piecing together how streams have been modified over time, and how we can interpret 1) how to restore streams to "health" and 2) what the diversity and productivity of streams might have been in the past. Another thing that needs to be standardized. Species counts should take into account of BREEDING POPULATIONS, not just transients or migrants. Breeding population, I think, would better reflect an area's productivity. Hence, we need to be collecting nymphs as well, or at least adults seen to be ovipositing. Perhaps we could just look at Zygopteran diversity? Cheers, Ethan Subject: Yet Once More on the diversity question..more From: "Bob Glotzhober" <bglotzhober AT ohiohistory.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:53:09 -0400 In thinking about all these strands of info regarding diversity, another angle hit me. I have not traveled nearly as much as Dennis, so let me stick with Ohio. While Ohio's waters are gradually getting cleaner, we have a large human population and a lot of pollution. That pollution was absent circa 1800 when the state was first settled -- with descriptions of "clear and transparent waters" and rivers "teaming with fish." The pollution was definitely present by 1850 in a big way, and very significant both chemically and silt-wise by the turn of the last century. This had to have impacted Odonata diversity and abundance, but what data do we have to support that? Not much. In 1895 or 96 (I'd have to look it up to be exact) David S. Kellicott (who did the first recording of Odonates in Ohio) reported on an un-named central Ohio river observing American Rubyspots (Hetaerina americana) drooping off the branches in masses over the stream -- and then capturing 70 of them in one sweep of the net. While this species is still present with a "healthy" population -- we've never seen numbers anything like that. If I go to the Big Darby (our best river) and compare it to other nearby but more polluted streams, the population levels of rubyspots is much greater (double or more??) in the Darby. So, in 1895 were our rivers yet much cleaner than today and therefore more productive? Does that in part explain the "flat" population curves between southern areas and northern areas? i.e. northern rivers in the UP of Michigan cleaner and therefore more productive? Have we in Ohio actually lost species due to pollution that we never knew were here because no one collected at all until 1895? Does that hold true for other states -- at least the major rivers in those state? Obviously I don't have any answers here, but it is an interesting line of thought. Bob Glotzhober ==================== Robert C. Glotzhober 614/ 298-2054 Senior Curator, Natural History bglotzhober AT ohiohistory.org Ohio Historical Society Fax: 614/ 297-2546 1982 Velma Avenue Columbus, Ohio 43211-2497 Visit the website of the Ohio Historical Society at: www.ohiohistory.org and check out our online collections catalog. See or purchase Dragonflies and Damselflies of Ohio or the Cedar Bog Symposium II at OHS's new E-Store: http://www.ohiohistorystore.com/ Visit the Ohio Odonata website at: http://www.marietta.edu/~odonata/index.html -----Original Message----- From: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ethan Bright Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:36 AM To: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [gl_odonata] Re: diversity question..more Dennis Paulson wrote: > I have to respond to Bob's message. I agree with him 100%, including > the differences in both number of species and number of individuals - > except for eastern North American Odonata. There seems to be no such > diversity gradient for eastern odes, with the New England and Great > Lakes states having species lists equally as large as the southeastern > states. With global warming and the apparent constant incursion of > tropical species across our southern border (5 new species for Texas > just this year), perhaps this will change, but right now the state > lists at the US/Canadian border are as large as those at the southern > edge of the US! Here are numbers from states east of the Mississippi > from a list I compiled several years ago for a lecture. .. > > Alabama 173 > Arkansas 132 > ... OK, let's not compare apples and oranges. As we know, beta and gamma diversity depends not only on ecological processes, such as average temperature, primary and secondary productivity, but also on the some measure of the different types of ecosystems PER UNIT AREA. In other words, one must put oneself in the multivariate environmental parameter world and standardize the data, rather than rely on species counts from human political entities. It would be a good idea to come up with different biogeographic zones. Then, let's see if , after standardizing for ecosystem diversity (e.g., rivers, wetlands, bogs, altitudinal gradients, etc.), if there is some cline associated with geography. And a final thought - maybe because odonates often are wonderful disperants, the historical signal (post-glacial recolonization) is really noisy. Now Dennis' mention of global warming is important: if odonate diversity is higher in areas in which aquatic ecosystems are not well buffered by groundwater systems (in other words, habitat diversity is dependent on water systems that are subject to high evapotranspirative stress), then we need to really focus conservation measures in those areas. (Yes, an obvious point!). Cheers, Ethan ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Subject: Re: diversity question..more From: Ethan Bright <ethanbr AT umich.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:36:17 -0400 Dennis Paulson wrote: > I have to respond to Bob's message. I agree with him 100%, including > the differences in both number of species and number of individuals - > except for eastern North American Odonata. There seems to be no such > diversity gradient for eastern odes, with the New England and Great > Lakes states having species lists equally as large as the southeastern > states. With global warming and the apparent constant incursion of > tropical species across our southern border (5 new species for Texas > just this year), perhaps this will change, but right now the state > lists at the US/Canadian border are as large as those at the southern > edge of the US! Here are numbers from states east of the Mississippi > from a list I compiled several years ago for a lecture. .. > > Alabama 173 > Arkansas 132 > ... OK, let's not compare apples and oranges. As we know, beta and gamma diversity depends not only on ecological processes, such as average temperature, primary and secondary productivity, but also on the some measure of the different types of ecosystems PER UNIT AREA. In other words, one must put oneself in the multivariate environmental parameter world and standardize the data, rather than rely on species counts from human political entities. It would be a good idea to come up with different biogeographic zones. Then, let's see if , after standardizing for ecosystem diversity (e.g., rivers, wetlands, bogs, altitudinal gradients, etc.), if there is some cline associated with geography. And a final thought - maybe because odonates often are wonderful disperants, the historical signal (post-glacial recolonization) is really noisy. Now Dennis' mention of global warming is important: if odonate diversity is higher in areas in which aquatic ecosystems are not well buffered by groundwater systems (in other words, habitat diversity is dependent on water systems that are subject to high evapotranspirative stress), then we need to really focus conservation measures in those areas. (Yes, an obvious point!). Cheers, Ethan ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gl_odonata/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gl_odonata/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:gl_odonata-digest AT yahoogroups.com mailto:gl_odonata-fullfeatured AT yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gl_odonata-unsubscribe AT yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Subject: Re: GLOM; diversity question From: chill AT coastal.edu Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:01:55 -0400 Thanks, Ethan, for the response. > 1) Time of day of sampling; 2:00-2:45 local daylight time (probably more like midday "sun time"). And the rest of your suggestions below all probably have merit, and I guess I could file my impressions under "small sample size" and be done with it. Perhaps most likely of all, my visual template, which said "good habitat" was insufficiently refined. The degree of habitat specificity of the various species is consistently beyond my grasp, but I'm working on it. I saw a clear rushing stream and a clear small "pretty" river and an experienced oder would probably have seen about 19 habitat variables I missed. Chris > 2) Luck (both spatially and temporially); > 3) Prior productivity of the area's ecosystem (are the nymphs overly > selected against by factors that limit food resources or favor > competitors/predators?); > 4) Temperature (delay or advancement of growth development); and > 5) Disease cycles and hydrologic variation. > > I'm still getting a handle on the big picture of ode diversity - maybe it's > > something obvious like "in the far north, you should expect half the > diversity > > of the deep south," but if that's obvious, I guess I still need someone to > fill > > me in (and state and county species lists don't seem to show an obvious > pattern > > along those lines, though that's complicated by different amounts of > > effort...). > > > This is why long-term, repeated sampling of ecological data from the > same sites are so very useful. And so very difficult to do. > > Cheers, Ethan > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent through Coastal Carolina University's Webmail System. Subject: Re: [gl_odonata] GLOM; diversity question From: Brent Turcotte <brentturcotte AT yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Ontario, Canada has 171 species, excluding new species discovered since the Ontario Odonata Atlas was put out.  I believe Ontario's numbers of high because to the Great Lakes and it's large size.   Because of its large size it can get some western and far northern species. --- On Mon, 6/23/08, Dennis Paulson wrote: From: Dennis Paulson Subject: Re: [BULK] [gl_odonata] GLOM; diversity question To: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 9:09 AM Hello still again. I have to respond to Bob's message. I agree with him 100%, including the differences in both number of species and number of individuals - except for eastern North American Odonata. There seems to be no such diversity gradient for eastern odes, with the New England and Great Lakes states having species lists equally as large as the southeastern states. With global warming and the apparent constant incursion of tropical species across our southern border (5 new species for Texas just this year), perhaps this will change, but right now the state lists at the US/Canadian border are as large as those at the southern edge of the US! Here are numbers from states east of the Mississippi from a list I compiled several years ago for a lecture. All have been subsequently increased, and some may have changed substantially, but they give you the idea. There are new numbers available in the literature and online, but I'm too busy/lazy right now to go find them. Feel free to place the numbers on an outline map of the states, and if anyone wants to send me corrected numbers for their state, that would be appreciated. Or if someone is keeping track, please post a revised list! Dennis Alabama 173Arkansas 132Connecticut 134Delaware 96Florida 165Georgia 166Illinois 137Indiana 144Kentucky 147Louisiana 131Maine 153Maryland 155Massachusetts 169Michigan 154Mississippi 134New Hampshire 142New Jersey 170New York 195North Carolina 190Ohio 155Pennsylvania 172Rhode Island 99South Carolina 151Tennessee 144Vermont 107Virginia 194West Virginia 121Wisconsin 154 It would be of great theoretical interest to figure out why these animals seem to run counter to the trend that Bob describes that characterizes so many taxonomic groups. One thing that seems quite evident is that northeastern US/southeastern Canada is very rich habitat for Odonata. As you go farther south from the US, indeed there are more odonate species per unit area, but again the species-diversity gradient in odonates is nowhere nearly as dramatic as in many other groups, from birds to butterflies. I suspect the fact that aquatic habitats don't vary as much latitudinally as do terrestrial ones plays the biggest part in this. Dennis On Jun 23, 2008, at 7:29 AM, Bob Glotzhober wrote: Chris:Unfortunately, I was not able to join the group at the GLOM – but maybe a brief insight to offer.In very general ecological terms, more southern areas have a greater diversity with fewer individuals of the same species. In contrast, more northern areas offer fewer species, but great numbers per species – sometimes to extraordinary results. Obviously, that can be slanted by the number of different habitats you visit, etc. but such variation is common for many types of organisms.Bob G. ============ ========Robert C. Glotzhober 614/ 298-2054Senior Curator, Natural History bglotzhober AT ohiohistory. orgOhio Historical Society Fax: 614/ 297-25461982 Velma AvenueColumbus, Ohio 43211-2497 . -----Dennis Paulson1724 NE 98 St.Seattle, WA 98115206-528-1382dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: GLOM; diversity question From: Ethan Bright <ethanbr AT umich.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:51:15 -0400 chill AT coastal.edu wrote: > ...I'm comparing my experience at GLOM with my recent participation at the Southeast > DSA meeting in Cheraw, SC. At Cheraw, the two day total was about 22 damselfly > species and 33 dragonflies. At Munising, things seemed much slower. Things that can affect the diversity and numbers are: 1) Time of day of sampling; 2) Luck (both spatially and temporially); 3) Prior productivity of the area's ecosystem (are the nymphs overly selected against by factors that limit food resources or favor competitors/predators?); 4) Temperature (delay or advancement of growth development); and 5) Disease cycles and hydrologic variation. > I'm still getting a handle on the big picture of ode diversity - maybe it's > something obvious like "in the far north, you should expect half the diversity > of the deep south," but if that's obvious, I guess I still need someone to fill > me in (and state and county species lists don't seem to show an obvious pattern > along those lines, though that's complicated by different amounts of > effort...). > This is why long-term, repeated sampling of ecological data from the same sites are so very useful. And so very difficult to do. Cheers, Ethan Subject: Re: GLOM; diversity question From: chill AT coastal.edu Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:02:34 -0400 Quoting Dennis Paulson : > Hello again. I just wanted to correct an oversight on my part. And as long as we're correcting oversights, I'll just add quickly that two possible explanations I didn't mention first time around for why I fared poorly at Wagner Creek and Anna River are 1. - it was one stream during one hour, and that wasn't typical, and 2. (always likely) Chris is demonstrating his incompetence in ode-finding. I know the total GLOM list is going to be way longer than the list of things I found myself; I'm hoping someone posts a more complete summary. If you figure I spent only visited a third of the sites that some GLOMmers did (true) and that my field acumen is one-third of theirs (a huge overestimate of my abilities relative to theirs), then let's see, multiply my list by nine and you'd have a lot of species! But still I'm pretty sure the zygopteran list won't be too long. Despite poking along slowly, some of the things I did see were Enallagma ebrium and hageni (abundant at Seney NWR), I. verticalis and Nehallenia irene and Chromagrion conditum (caught by a young (teen age maybe? or not quite) oder whose name I forgot; thanks for sharing! Gomphus spicata were everywhere, three species of baskettails were certainly in my immediate vicinity even if I didn't personally see a Beaverpond up close, Dorocordulia and two or three Somatochloras were around, a couple Leucorhinia, Cordulegaster maculata, Basiaeschna, Libellula pulchella and quadrimaculata, Gomphaeschna furcillata. Ladona julia were everywhere... I wish I'd been able to spend more time at the Au Train river - the 20 minutes I got there (at the "wrong" reach) was great, and when the "real" group got there Sunday, I bet they came up with some good stuff. CH --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent through Coastal Carolina University's Webmail System. Subject: Re: [gl_odonata] GLOM; diversity question From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:09:29 -0700 Hello still again. I have to respond to Bob's message. I agree with him 100%, including the differences in both number of species and number of individuals - except for eastern North American Odonata. There seems to be no such diversity gradient for eastern odes, with the New England and Great Lakes states having species lists equally as large as the southeastern states. With global warming and the apparent constant incursion of tropical species across our southern border (5 new species for Texas just this year), perhaps this will change, but right now the state lists at the US/Canadian border are as large as those at the southern edge of the US! Here are numbers from states east of the Mississippi from a list I compiled several years ago for a lecture. All have been subsequently increased, and some may have changed substantially, but they give you the idea. There are new numbers available in the literature and online, but I'm too busy/lazy right now to go find them. Feel free to place the numbers on an outline map of the states, and if anyone wants to send me corrected numbers for their state, that would be appreciated. Or if someone is keeping track, please post a revised list! Dennis Alabama 173 Arkansas 132 Connecticut 134 Delaware 96 Florida 165 Georgia 166 Illinois 137 Indiana 144 Kentucky 147 Louisiana 131 Maine 153 Maryland 155 Massachusetts 169 Michigan 154 Mississippi 134 New Hampshire 142 New Jersey 170 New York 195 North Carolina 190 Ohio 155 Pennsylvania 172 Rhode Island 99 South Carolina 151 Tennessee 144 Vermont 107 Virginia 194 West Virginia 121 Wisconsin 154 It would be of great theoretical interest to figure out why these animals seem to run counter to the trend that Bob describes that characterizes so many taxonomic groups. One thing that seems quite evident is that northeastern US/southeastern Canada is very rich habitat for Odonata. As you go farther south from the US, indeed there are more odonate species per unit area, but again the species- diversity gradient in odonates is nowhere nearly as dramatic as in many other groups, from birds to butterflies. I suspect the fact that aquatic habitats don't vary as much latitudinally as do terrestrial ones plays the biggest part in this. Dennis On Jun 23, 2008, at 7:29 AM, Bob Glotzhober wrote: > > Chris: > > Unfortunately, I was not able to join the group at the GLOM – but > maybe a brief insight to offer. > > In very general ecological terms, more southern areas have a > greater diversity with fewer individuals of the same species. In > contrast, more northern areas offer fewer species, but great > numbers per species – sometimes to extraordinary results. > Obviously, that can be slanted by the number of different habitats > you visit, etc. but such variation is common for many types of > organisms. > > Bob G. > > > > ==================== > > Robert C. Glotzhober 614/ 298-2054 > > Senior Curator, Natural History bglotzhober AT ohiohistory.org > > Ohio Historical Society Fax: 614/ 297-2546 > > 1982 Velma Avenue > > Columbus, Ohio 43211-2497 > > > > . > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: GLOM; diversity question From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:45:47 -0700 Hello again. I just wanted to correct an oversight on my part. One reason I did so well in northern Wisconsin is that I had the help of Bob Dubois to locate the best places to go, and he took me to some of them! On Jun 23, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Dennis Paulson wrote: > Hi, Chris. > > As a participant in the recent Southeast meeting, I thought I'd > chip in. I visited northern Wisconsin last summer for a week, from > 5-12 June, and thought it was odonate paradise! > ----- > > . > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Re: GLOM; diversity question From: "jpdragonf1y" <pleskj AT dnr.state.wi.us> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:40:43 -0000 Hi, I was at GLOM myself, it was fun for everyone. Weather cooperated too. As to diversity, I talked to some people and the dragonfly season had same problems there as in northern Wisconsin, about two weeks late due to a cold and wet spring. For example, I literally saw some Crimson-Ringed whitefaces emerging at one site. From what I can recall, there is not much diffence in odes for Northern Michigan. Would someone be able to elaborate on this? Julie --- In gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com, Dennis Paulson wrote: > > Hi, Chris. > > As a participant in the recent Southeast meeting, I thought I'd chip > in. I visited northern Wisconsin last summer for a week, from 5-12 > June, and thought it was odonate paradise! I found 60 species in the > northern half of the state, obviously covering more ground and > visiting many more different places than you did at the GLOM meeting. > I have never seen so many gomphids in my life as at the rivers of > northwestern WI, routinely finding 4 or 5 species at almost any > river, the St. Croix one of the best, and one memorable morning > finding 7 species at the Chippewa River. Among the emeralds, I found > several species of Somatochlora at the beginning of their seasons, > one Williamsonia at the end of its season, and Cordulia and > Dorocordulia were common in boggy areas, Among the libellulids, > Ladona julia was supersuperabundant, and several Leucorrhinia species > and Libellula quadrimaculata were common; others were probably just > starting their seasons. Didymops and Macromia and Basiaeschna were > everywhere at the rivers, and Hagenius were starting to emerge in > numbers. I wasn't greatly impressed by the abundance or diversity of > damselflies, but Enallagma ebrium and exsulans were fairly common in > the appropriate habitats, and I found a few good populations of E. > boreale and Ischnura verticalis. Nehalennia gracilis and irene were > abundant at one bog. Perhaps it was a bit early for coenagrionids, > definitely so for lestids, which I saw not at all. I saw small > numbers of both of the regional Calopteryx. > > I guess that area is famous for such diversity and abundance, and it > deserves the fame. I never saw any place during that trip that was as > devoid of odes as what you're describing, which means of course that > I have no explanations, other than possibly its being a VERY late > year where you were. I think of northern MI as being not that > different from northern WI, but perhaps it is? I'm with Chris in > trying to understand the bigger pictures of odonate diversity. > > Dennis > > On Jun 23, 2008, at 6:58 AM, chill AT ... wrote: > > > Hi Ode Oglers, > > > > I'm from South Carolina, visiting Michigan for the summer, and just > > back from > > GLOM. Thanks (!!!) to the organizers of the meeting, the speakers, > > and others > > who did the heavy lifting, especially Luke Langstaff, who took a > > lot of extra > > time to provide pests like me with extra directions and maps to > > spots we'd > > missed. > > > > I'm not sure of the total species tally from the meeting, but I had > > a question I > > thought I'd pose here anyway, about the level of diversity we > > encountered. I'm > > comparing my experience at GLOM with my recent participation at the > > Southeast > > DSA meeting in Cheraw, SC. At Cheraw, the two day total was about > > 22 damselfly > > species and 33 dragonflies. At Munising, things seemed much slower. > > It could > > have been that we were focussing on particular habitats (bogs) for > > rarer > > species, at the expense of running up a list of commoner things, > > but I took > > most of an hour one day to wade a clear, shallow rushing gravel and > > sand-bottomed creek down to a beautiful, clear, larger (too deep to > > wade, but > > only 20 feet across) river, and I was surprised at how little I > > found: one > > female Nehallenia irene, two Ladona julia and two unidentified > > (probable) > > baskettails (all on the stream, no odes at all in 10 minutes at the > > river). In > > SC, I would have a hard time imagining a stream like that without > > several > > species of Argia, and some Calopteryx dimidiata, and perhaps some > > gomphids, but > > in sunny patch after sunny patch, I saw pretty much nothing (of > > course, that > > doesn't mean someone else wouldn't have seen things I missed, but > > still...). > > People I quizzed at the meeting said "it's still early," and maybe > > that's it, > > but it seems like "late baskettail season" in dragonfly terms, in > > the U.P. in > > late June, and there's plenty of damselfly diversity and abundance > > at the > > equivalent time in my local (Carolina) haunts. > > > > I'm still getting a handle on the big picture of ode diversity - > > maybe it's > > something obvious like "in the far north, you should expect half > > the diversity > > of the deep south," but if that's obvious, I guess I still need > > someone to fill > > me in (and state and county species lists don't seem to show an > > obvious pattern > > along those lines, though that's complicated by different amounts of > > effort...). > > > > Anyway, the meeting was great fun, I saw many species I'd never > > encountered > > before, and learned lots of new things. It was very friendly to a > > "teneral" > > oder like me. > > > > Chris Hill > > Traverse City, MI and Conway, SC > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > This message was sent through Coastal Carolina University's Webmail > > System. > > > > > > From: chill AT ... > > Date: June 23, 2008 6:51:38 AM PDT > > To: gl-odonata AT yahoogroups.com > > Subject: GLOM > > > > > > IDEzOjUxOjM5IC0wMDAwDQpSZWNlaXZlZDogZnJvbSB1bmtub3duICg2Ni4yMTguNjcuOT > > cpDQog > > IGJ5IG0zNi5ncnAuc2NkLnlhaG9vLmNvbSB3aXRoIFFNUVA7IDIzIEp1biAyMDA4IDEzOj > > UxOjM5 > > IC0wMDAwDQpSZWNlaXZlZDogZnJvbSB1bmtub3duIChIRUxPIGJhcnJhY3VkYTIuY29hc3 > > RhbC5l > > ZHUpICgxOTkuMTIwLjIxLjU5KQ0KICBieSBtdGExOC5ncnAuc2NkLnlhaG9vLmNvbSB3aX > > RoIFNN > > VFA7IDIzIEp1biAyMDA4IDEzOjUxOjM5IC0wMDAwDQpYLUFTRy1EZWJ1Zy1JRDogMTIxND > > IyOTA5 > > OC02MTNjMDA4ZTAwMDAtQnhJZDNSDQpYLUJhcnJhY3VkYS1VUkw6IGh0dHA6Ly8xOTkuMT > > IwLjIx > > LjU5OjgwMDAvY2dpLWJpbi9tYXJrLmNnaQ0KUmVjZWl2ZWQ6IGZyb20gd2VibWFpbC5jb2 > > FzdGFs 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was not able to join the group at the GLOM - but maybe a brief insight to offer. In very general ecological terms, more southern areas have a greater diversity with fewer individuals of the same species. In contrast, more northern areas offer fewer species, but great numbers per species - sometimes to extraordinary results. Obviously, that can be slanted by the number of different habitats you visit, etc. but such variation is common for many types of organisms. Bob G. ==================== Robert C. Glotzhober 614/ 298-2054 Senior Curator, Natural History bglotzhober AT ohiohistory.org Ohio Historical Society Fax: 614/ 297-2546 1982 Velma Avenue Columbus, Ohio 43211-2497 Visit the website of the Ohio Historical Society at: www.ohiohistory.org and check out our online collections catalog. See or purchase Dragonflies and Damselflies of Ohio or the Cedar Bog Symposium II at OHS's new E-Store: http://www.ohiohistorystore.com/ Visit the Ohio Odonata website at: http://www.marietta.edu/~odonata/index.html ________________________________ From: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com [mailto:gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chill AT coastal.edu Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 9:58 AM To: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com Subject: [BULK] [gl_odonata] GLOM; diversity question Importance: Low Hi Ode Oglers, I'm from South Carolina, visiting Michigan for the summer, and just back from GLOM. Thanks (!!!) to the organizers of the meeting, the speakers, and others who did the heavy lifting, especially Luke Langstaff, who took a lot of extra time to provide pests like me with extra directions and maps to spots we'd missed. I'm not sure of the total species tally from the meeting, but I had a question I thought I'd pose here anyway, about the level of diversity we encountered. I'm comparing my experience at GLOM with my recent participation at the Southeast DSA meeting in Cheraw, SC. At Cheraw, the two day total was about 22 damselfly species and 33 dragonflies. At Munising, things seemed much slower. It could have been that we were focussing on particular habitats (bogs) for rarer species, at the expense of running up a list of commoner things, but I took most of an hour one day to wade a clear, shallow rushing gravel and sand-bottomed creek down to a beautiful, clear, larger (too deep to wade, but only 20 feet across) river, and I was surprised at how little I found: one female Nehallenia irene, two Ladona julia and two unidentified (probable) baskettails (all on the stream, no odes at all in 10 minutes at the river). In SC, I would have a hard time imagining a stream like that without several species of Argia, and some Calopteryx dimidiata, and perhaps some gomphids, but in sunny patch after sunny patch, I saw pretty much nothing (of course, that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't have seen things I missed, but still...). People I quizzed at the meeting said "it's still early," and maybe that's it, but it seems like "late baskettail season" in dragonfly terms, in the U.P. in late June, and there's plenty of damselfly diversity and abundance at the equivalent time in my local (Carolina) haunts. I'm still getting a handle on the big picture of ode diversity - maybe it's something obvious like "in the far north, you should expect half the diversity of the deep south," but if that's obvious, I guess I still need someone to fill me in (and state and county species lists don't seem to show an obvious pattern along those lines, though that's complicated by different amounts of effort...). Anyway, the meeting was great fun, I saw many species I'd never encountered before, and learned lots of new things. It was very friendly to a "teneral" oder like me. Chris Hill Traverse City, MI and Conway, SC ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent through Coastal Carolina University's Webmail System. Subject: Re: GLOM; diversity question From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:38:20 -0700 Hi, Chris. As a participant in the recent Southeast meeting, I thought I'd chip in. I visited northern Wisconsin last summer for a week, from 5-12 June, and thought it was odonate paradise! I found 60 species in the northern half of the state, obviously covering more ground and visiting many more different places than you did at the GLOM meeting. I have never seen so many gomphids in my life as at the rivers of northwestern WI, routinely finding 4 or 5 species at almost any river, the St. Croix one of the best, and one memorable morning finding 7 species at the Chippewa River. Among the emeralds, I found several species of Somatochlora at the beginning of their seasons, one Williamsonia at the end of its season, and Cordulia and Dorocordulia were common in boggy areas, Among the libellulids, Ladona julia was supersuperabundant, and several Leucorrhinia species and Libellula quadrimaculata were common; others were probably just starting their seasons. Didymops and Macromia and Basiaeschna were everywhere at the rivers, and Hagenius were starting to emerge in numbers. I wasn't greatly impressed by the abundance or diversity of damselflies, but Enallagma ebrium and exsulans were fairly common in the appropriate habitats, and I found a few good populations of E. boreale and Ischnura verticalis. Nehalennia gracilis and irene were abundant at one bog. Perhaps it was a bit early for coenagrionids, definitely so for lestids, which I saw not at all. I saw small numbers of both of the regional Calopteryx. I guess that area is famous for such diversity and abundance, and it deserves the fame. I never saw any place during that trip that was as devoid of odes as what you're describing, which means of course that I have no explanations, other than possibly its being a VERY late year where you were. I think of northern MI as being not that different from northern WI, but perhaps it is? I'm with Chris in trying to understand the bigger pictures of odonate diversity. Dennis On Jun 23, 2008, at 6:58 AM, chill AT coastal.edu wrote: > Hi Ode Oglers, > > I'm from South Carolina, visiting Michigan for the summer, and just > back from > GLOM. Thanks (!!!) to the organizers of the meeting, the speakers, > and others > who did the heavy lifting, especially Luke Langstaff, who took a > lot of extra > time to provide pests like me with extra directions and maps to > spots we'd > missed. > > I'm not sure of the total species tally from the meeting, but I had > a question I > thought I'd pose here anyway, about the level of diversity we > encountered. I'm > comparing my experience at GLOM with my recent participation at the > Southeast > DSA meeting in Cheraw, SC. At Cheraw, the two day total was about > 22 damselfly > species and 33 dragonflies. At Munising, things seemed much slower. > It could > have been that we were focussing on particular habitats (bogs) for > rarer > species, at the expense of running up a list of commoner things, > but I took > most of an hour one day to wade a clear, shallow rushing gravel and > sand-bottomed creek down to a beautiful, clear, larger (too deep to > wade, but > only 20 feet across) river, and I was surprised at how little I > found: one > female Nehallenia irene, two Ladona julia and two unidentified > (probable) > baskettails (all on the stream, no odes at all in 10 minutes at the > river). In > SC, I would have a hard time imagining a stream like that without > several > species of Argia, and some Calopteryx dimidiata, and perhaps some > gomphids, but > in sunny patch after sunny patch, I saw pretty much nothing (of > course, that > doesn't mean someone else wouldn't have seen things I missed, but > still...). > People I quizzed at the meeting said "it's still early," and maybe > that's it, > but it seems like "late baskettail season" in dragonfly terms, in > the U.P. in > late June, and there's plenty of damselfly diversity and abundance > at the > equivalent time in my local (Carolina) haunts. > > I'm still getting a handle on the big picture of ode diversity - > maybe it's > something obvious like "in the far north, you should expect half > the diversity > of the deep south," but if that's obvious, I guess I still need > someone to fill > me in (and state and county species lists don't seem to show an > obvious pattern > along those lines, though that's complicated by different amounts of > effort...). > > Anyway, the meeting was great fun, I saw many species I'd never > encountered > before, and learned lots of new things. It was very friendly to a > "teneral" > oder like me. > > Chris Hill > Traverse City, MI and Conway, SC > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent through Coastal Carolina University's Webmail > System. > > > From: chill AT coastal.edu > Date: June 23, 2008 6:51:38 AM PDT > To: gl-odonata AT yahoogroups.com > Subject: GLOM > > > IDEzOjUxOjM5IC0wMDAwDQpSZWNlaXZlZDogZnJvbSB1bmtub3duICg2Ni4yMTguNjcuOT > cpDQog > IGJ5IG0zNi5ncnAuc2NkLnlhaG9vLmNvbSB3aXRoIFFNUVA7IDIzIEp1biAyMDA4IDEzOj > UxOjM5 > IC0wMDAwDQpSZWNlaXZlZDogZnJvbSB1bmtub3duIChIRUxPIGJhcnJhY3VkYTIuY29hc3 > RhbC5l > ZHUpICgxOTkuMTIwLjIxLjU5KQ0KICBieSBtdGExOC5ncnAuc2NkLnlhaG9vLmNvbSB3aX > RoIFNN > VFA7IDIzIEp1biAyMDA4IDEzOjUxOjM5IC0wMDAwDQpYLUFTRy1EZWJ1Zy1JRDogMTIxND > IyOTA5 > OC02MTNjMDA4ZTAwMDAtQnhJZDNSDQpYLUJhcnJhY3VkYS1VUkw6IGh0dHA6Ly8xOTkuMT > IwLjIx > LjU5OjgwMDAvY2dpLWJpbi9tYXJrLmNnaQ0KUmVjZWl2ZWQ6IGZyb20gd2VibWFpbC5jb2 > FzdGFs > 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LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS > 0NClRo > aXMgbWVzc2FnZSB3YXMgc2VudCB0aHJvdWdoIENvYXN0YWwgQ2Fyb2xpbmEgVW5pdmVyc2 > l0eSdz > IFdlYm1haWwgU3lzdGVtLg0K > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: GLOM; diversity question From: chill AT coastal.edu Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:58:12 -0400 Hi Ode Oglers, I'm from South Carolina, visiting Michigan for the summer, and just back from GLOM. Thanks (!!!) to the organizers of the meeting, the speakers, and others who did the heavy lifting, especially Luke Langstaff, who took a lot of extra time to provide pests like me with extra directions and maps to spots we'd missed. I'm not sure of the total species tally from the meeting, but I had a question I thought I'd pose here anyway, about the level of diversity we encountered. I'm comparing my experience at GLOM with my recent participation at the Southeast DSA meeting in Cheraw, SC. At Cheraw, the two day total was about 22 damselfly species and 33 dragonflies. At Munising, things seemed much slower. It could have been that we were focussing on particular habitats (bogs) for rarer species, at the expense of running up a list of commoner things, but I took most of an hour one day to wade a clear, shallow rushing gravel and sand-bottomed creek down to a beautiful, clear, larger (too deep to wade, but only 20 feet across) river, and I was surprised at how little I found: one female Nehallenia irene, two Ladona julia and two unidentified (probable) baskettails (all on the stream, no odes at all in 10 minutes at the river). In SC, I would have a hard time imagining a stream like that without several species of Argia, and some Calopteryx dimidiata, and perhaps some gomphids, but in sunny patch after sunny patch, I saw pretty much nothing (of course, that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't have seen things I missed, but still...). People I quizzed at the meeting said "it's still early," and maybe that's it, but it seems like "late baskettail season" in dragonfly terms, in the U.P. in late June, and there's plenty of damselfly diversity and abundance at the equivalent time in my local (Carolina) haunts. I'm still getting a handle on the big picture of ode diversity - maybe it's something obvious like "in the far north, you should expect half the diversity of the deep south," but if that's obvious, I guess I still need someone to fill me in (and state and county species lists don't seem to show an obvious pattern along those lines, though that's complicated by different amounts of effort...). Anyway, the meeting was great fun, I saw many species I'd never encountered before, and learned lots of new things. It was very friendly to a "teneral" oder like me. Chris Hill Traverse City, MI and Conway, SC --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent through Coastal Carolina University's Webmail System.Hi Ode Oglers, I'm from South Carolina, visiting Michigan for the summer, and just back from GLOM. Thanks (!!!) to the organizers of the meeting, the speakers, and others who did the heavy lifting, especially Luke Langstaff, who took a lot of extra time to provide pests like me with extra directions and maps to spots we'd missed. I'm not sure of the total species tally from the meeting, but I had a question I thought I'd pose here anyway, about the level of diversity we encountered. I'm comparing my experience at GLOM with my recent participation at the Southeast DSA meeting in Cheraw, SC. At Cheraw, the two day total was about 22 damselfly species and 33 dragonflies. At Munising, things seemed much slower. It could have been that we were focussing on particular habitats (bogs) for rarer species, at the expense of running up a list of commoner things, but I took most of an hour one day to wade a clear, shallow rushing gravel and sand-bottomed creek down to a beautiful, clear, larger (too deep to wade, but only 20 feet across) river, and I was surprised at how little I found: one female Nehallenia irene, two Ladona julia and two unidentified (probable) baskettails (all on the stream, no odes at all in 10 minutes at the river). In SC, I would have a hard time imagining a stream like that without several species of Argia, and some Calopteryx dimidiata, and perhaps some gomphids, but in sunny patch after sunny patch, I saw pretty much nothing (of course, that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't have seen things I missed, but still...). People I quizzed at the meeting said "it's still early," and maybe that's it, but it seems like "late baskettail season" in dragonfly terms, in the U.P. in late June, and there's plenty of damselfly diversity and abundance at the equivalent time in my local (Carolina) haunts. I'm still getting a handle on the big picture of ode diversity - maybe it's something obvious like "in the far north, you should expect half the diversity of the deep south," but if that's obvious, I guess I still need someone to fill me in (and state and county species lists don't seem to show an obvious pattern along those lines, though that's complicated by different amounts of effort...). Anyway, the meeting was great fun, I saw many species I'd never encountered before, and learned lots of new things. It was very friendly to a "teneral" oder like me. Chris --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent through Coastal Carolina University's Webmail System. Subject: Cobra Clubtail in Wayne County, Michigan From: "Darrin O'Brien" <treecreeper AT wowway.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:00:51 -0400 While doing an ode survey at Humbug Marsh of the Detroit River International Wildlife Refuge in Wayne County (Detroit), Michigan, I happened upon a female Cobra Clubtail (Gomphus vastus). To read and see more, check out: http://urbanodes.blogspot.com/2008/06/cobra-clubtail-unofficial-county-record.html After last week's Painted Skimmers (Libellula semifasciata), I wouldn't have guessed this would be the next species. -- Darrin O'Brien Subject: Re: Needham et al. book wanted From: <prairiewizard AT peoplepc.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:50:16 -0500 Search for your book here: www.bookfinder.com I found it, but they start at $127.00! ----- Original Message ----- From: "ldemarch" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:26 PM Subject: [gl_odonata] Needham et al. book wanted > Hi All > > If this post is too far off topic I apologize. > > I'm looking for a copy of James G Needham, Minter J Westfall and > Michael L May (2000) Dragonflies of North America. Price is a > consideration. > > If you have one you want to part with or know of where I can get one > please contact me. > > Thank you. > > Larry > > Larry de March > > demarchl AT mts.net > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > Subject: Needham et al. book wanted From: "ldemarch" <demarchl AT mts.net> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:26:14 -0000 Hi All If this post is too far off topic I apologize. I'm looking for a copy of James G Needham, Minter J Westfall and Michael L May (2000) Dragonflies of North America. Price is a consideration. If you have one you want to part with or know of where I can get one please contact me. Thank you. Larry Larry de March demarchl AT mts.net Subject: New file uploaded to gl_odonata From: gl_odonata AT yahoogroups.com Date: 6 Jun 2008 15:50:54 -0000 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the gl_odonata group. File : /2008 Newsletter Spring.pdf Uploaded by : mndragonfly66 Description : MN Odonata Survey Project You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gl_odonata/files/2008%20Newsletter%20Spring.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles Regards, mndragonfly66 Subject: Minnesota Odonata Survey Project newsletter From: "Kurt Mead" <mndfly AT cpinternet.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:04:41 -0500 The MOSP newsletter, for your perusal. Kurt Mead Subject: Correct URL for GLOM 2008 From: "Mark" <argusmaniac AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:44:28 -0000 Sorry about the bad link. Here is the correct URL: http://insects.ummz.lsa.umich.edu/MICHODO/GLOM2008/index.html Subject: 2008 GLOM Info From: "Mark" <argusmaniac AT yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:11:20 -0000 From Luke Langstaff: Hi Everyone, I am very excited to host the 2008 Great Lakes Odonata Meeting in the beautiful Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The event will be held in Munising from June 20th to June 22nd. Field excursions will include trips to Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore, Seney National Wildlife Refuge, the Hiawatha National Forest, and Lake Superior State Forest. We will be visiting bogs, bog lakes, fens, impoundments, and various other aquatic and wetland habitats…So be sure to bring a smile and your outdoor gear! I have attached the registration form for the event at the bottom of this message, as well as the preliminary agenda. PLEASE SEND YOUR COMPLETED REGISTRATION FORMS BY JUNE 8TH. See the bottom of the form for instructions and my mailing/e-mail addresses. The first day will be reserved for travel and check-in at the Falling Rock Café and Bookstore, followed by presentations and dinner in the evening at Sydney's Restaurant. Munising has many lodging options, which you can check out at the following link: http://www.munising.org/munising/lodging.html For those of you looking for the complete outdoor experience, you can look here for camping opportunities: http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/hiawatha/recreation/camping/ Hopefully, any other questions you may have about the area can be answered at our Munising Visitors' Bureau website at: http://www.munising.org/ If not, feel free to contact me at: 906-387-2512 X26 or langstaff AT fs.fed.us Thank you all, and I hope to see you all very soon. Sincerely, Lucas L. Langstaff ---------- THE FORMS WILL BE AVAILABLE ON THE MOS WEBSITE: http://insects.ummz.lsa.umich.edu/MOS/GLOM2008/ Subject: Re: SW Ohio Blue Corporal / Carolina Saddlebags / etc From: Dennis Paulson <dennispaulson AT comcast.net> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 19:59:30 -0700 For some reason, the genus Ladona tends to excesses. I have found Chalk-fronted Corporals in exactly the same way, so common they could almost be called swarming and I think more common than any other libellulid that I have seen, although Eastern Pondhawks and Blue Dashers at some localities are just about as thick. But the corporals rest on the ground, so they can be abundant on paths and roads, flushing one after another as you walk along. In late afternoon, Chalk-fronted are sometimes on tree trunks in the sun, and you I have counted 10 or 20 or 30 in view at once. I don't know if White Corporals, Ladona exusta, are ever this common. I have seen them in reasonable numbers at lakes and bog ponds in the Northeast. Dennis Paulson On May 5, 2008, at 7:33 PM, William Hull wrote: > At lunchtime today I visited a pond that I had spied on Google Earth > while looking for potential Painted Skimmer locations. (39° 2'37"N, > 84° 6'22"W). The pond is about an acre is size and is surrounding by > successional woodland. I did not have any luck finding Painted > Skimmers however I did find an incredible number of Blue Corporals. > My estimate is 300-500 individuals although it could easily have been > more. There were 20+ on the path that led to the pond. In the area > of the pond they were everywhere. I could easily get 15-20 in my > binocular view. The numbers include a mix of teneral, immature, and > adult male and females They were on the path to the pond, in every > clearing near pond, flying over pond, mating, and ovipositing. I > can't recall seeing this many of any species locally in SW Ohio in > such a small area. > > Also seen were: > Eastern Forktail – 1F > Common Green Darner – 5+M, patrolling pond > Springtime Darner – 3, flying near pond > Epitheca sp. – along path to pond, flying near pond and in small > clearings, a few males perched and one photographed > Common Whitetail –5+, along path to pond > Carolina Saddlebags – 10+, flying over and perched near pond > -- > Cheers, > Bill Hull > Cincinnati, OH, USA > http://www.mangoverde.com/ > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ----- Dennis Paulson 1724 NE 98 St. Seattle, WA 98115 206-528-1382 dennispaulson AT comcast.net Subject: Uhler's Sundragon - Adams and Scioto Counties, Ohio From: "William Hull" <mangoverde AT gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:40:14 -0400 On May 1st Bob Foppe and I headed out to Adams and Scioto county in search of birds, butterflies and dragonflies. One of our primary targets was Uhler's Sundragon. There is a known location at Ellis Run on The Nature Conservancy's Edge of Appalachia preserve in Adams County. We checked this first and found 7-8 individuals. Photos are at: http://www.mangoverde.com/dragonflies/spec/spec140-144.html Later in the day we visited Pond Lick Lake in Shawnee State Forest in Scioto County. We found more Uhler's Sundragons on the creek feeding into the lake. We took photographs as they are not currently on the county list. We also found Carolina Saddlebags on the lake for what should be another county record. -- Cheers, Bill Hull Cincinnati, OH, USA http://www.mangoverde.com/ Subject: SW Ohio Blue Corporal / Carolina Saddlebags / etc From: "William Hull" <mangoverde AT gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:33:51 -0400 At lunchtime today I visited a pond that I had spied on Google Earth while looking for potential Painted Skimmer locations. (39° 2'37"N, 84° 6'22"W). The pond is about an acre is size and is surrounding by successional woodland. I did not have any luck finding Painted Skimmers however I did find an incredible number of Blue Corporals. My estimate is 300-500 individuals although it could easily have been more. There were 20+ on the path that led to the pond. In the area of the pond they were everywhere. I could easily get 15-20 in my binocular view. The numbers include a mix of teneral, immature, and adult male and females They were on the path to the pond, in every clearing near pond, flying over pond, mating, and ovipositing. I can't recall seeing this many of any species locally in SW Ohio in such a small area. Also seen